El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

[Calemyr]

I don't think he's really been told anything.

He's also still presumably Marked, not Dreaming or Awakened, so that is probably not accurate at the moment. Using a mark a million times doesn't give you magic, or Susan (who fragrantly abused her mark for a couple years) would not have needed the "your first cantrip was actually just a pressure release valve to keep sexist gags running" revelation to go Super Susan.

[Rater202]

Justi and Rhoda were both awakened in part by use of Magic Marks.

And Pandora's reaction to Rhoda's awakening indicates that it was entirely natural.

It should also be noticed that Susan did not, as far as we know, abuse her mark for years. The Hammers isn't her Mark spell, the chest full of things she can conjure duplicates of is and as far as we know she only used that twice before awakening: When fighting the French Aberration and when fighting The Goo.

the Hammers were things tha t any girl could do, magical powers or no.

Beyond that, not everyone has the same magical potential: The French Immortals were able to take Nanase from "never used magic" to "full-fledged magic-user" but they couldn't awaken Susan, only make her a Dreamer with a mark.

[Kish]

If you are talking about Pandora's Apocalypse, that's not the 'end of the world'. It's more 'profound revelation'. Cultural association is that the word ties to the end of the world, but it's more 'end of the world as we know it'.

I even put "as she described it" and it got blown right past, sigh.

[Silly Name]

Justi and Rhoda were both awakened in part by use of Magic Marks.

And Pandora's reaction to Rhoda's awakening indicates that it was entirely natural.

It should also be noticed that Susan did not, as far as we know, abuse her mark for years. The Hammers isn't her Mark spell, the chest full of things she can conjure duplicates of is and as far as we know she only used that twice before awakening: When fighting the French Aberration and when fighting The Goo.

the Hammers were things tha t any girl could do, magical powers or no.

Beyond that, not everyone has the same magical potential: The French Immortals were able to take Nanase from "never used magic" to "full-fledged magic-user" but they couldn't awaken Susan, only make her a Dreamer with a mark.

If I remember and understand things correctly, whether someone awakens or not is basically a roll of the dice. Being given a mark helps a lot because you start using magic and build up magic energy, but the fact Susan took years to awaken and only did so because of an emotional surge while Rhoda awoke incredibly fast means there's a lot of variance.

Magic potential seems like a big factor, but I would hazard that constant training and usage+desire to have and use magic also play an important part. Susan, overall, never expressed a strong desire to awaken and get new spells, while Rhoda found out she could now shrink and enlarge items and creatures, which is something she enjoys.

[Calemyr]

If I remember and understand things correctly, whether someone awakens or not is basically a roll of the dice. Being given a mark helps a lot because you start using magic and build up magic energy, but the fact Susan took years to awaken and only did so because of an emotional surge while Rhoda awoke incredibly fast means there's a lot of variance.

Magic potential seems like a big factor, but I would hazard that constant training and usage+desire to have and use magic also play an important part. Susan, overall, never expressed a strong desire to awaken and get new spells, while Rhoda found out she could now shrink and enlarge items and creatures, which is something she enjoys.

Marks help. Affinities help. Magic potential helps. There's also magic experience, which includes not simply using magic (including through marks), but also tangentially related exercises. In EGS, the most critical of these is Anime Style Martial Arts, which effectively flexes all the "muscles" of magic without actually being magic. Justin, Nanase, Elliot, and Ellen are highly trained ASM Artists who excelled in their training (though Ellen's experience is just borrowed from Elliot and Justin never went as far as Elliot and Nanase). All four had significant magical power built up well before being exposed to magic thanks to this, which is why they were made the jump easily. (Elliot being an exception because he liked Dreaming because it encouraged him to use mind-altering magic and actively avoided things he knew would Awaken him such as leaving Moperville city limits.)

Luke doesn't have the built up power to make the jump (like Justin), nor a Mark he's inclined to use constantly to build up his power (like Rhoda or Sarah). He is not likely to enter either the Dreaming or Awakened state on his own for a very long time.

At least that's how I read it.

Out of curiosity, what mages are out there? Here are the magic-capable young characters I'm aware of.
Elliot: Dreaming. Reached Dreaming due to Dewitchery Diamond, resists efforts to Awaken.
Ellen: Awakened. Reached Dreaming due to Dewitchery Diamond, reached Awakened after leaving Moperville on a Scooby Mission.
Tedd: Awakened Wizard. As a Seer, he's been Awakened since infancy, but was unable to interface with magic on a traditional footing.
Nanase: Awakened. Awakened by French Immortals. Was already a powerhouse due to ASMA, as well as natural ability.
Susan: Awakened. Marked by French Immortals. Reached Dreaming at some point through heavy Mark usage. Awakened by Jerry.
Sarah: Marked. Marked by Pandora. Actively using mark to build up power in order to advance.
Justin: Dreaming. Marked by Pandora. Reached Dreaming via Mark usage and raw power via ASMA.
Dex: Marked. Marked by Pandora. May reach Dreaming due to Mark usage, but doesn't seem to want more than the Mark's ability anyway.
Rhoda: Dreaming. Marked by Pandora. Reached Dreaming due to Mark usage.
Catalina: Marked. Marked by Pandora. May have reached Dreaming, undetermined at this point.
Luke: Marked. Marked by Pandora. Terrified to use his mark due to exposure to Grace and Tedd.
Ashley: Awakened Wizard. Awakened by absorbing part of the Dewitchery Diamond. Has next to no Magic Power at this time.
Van: ? Wizard. Like Tedd, he is a Seer. Actual status is not clear, but he HAS used magic to qualify for conference with Magic.
Jay: Awakened Wizard. Presumably a Seer. More of an archeologist than a scientist, it would seem. Actively seeks magic users to learn spells.
?: Awakened Wizard. Dream wizard who talks with Grace. At least, he looks young in dreams.

Grace and Noah are Uryom-related, which makes their abilities incredibly hard to gauge as mages, though this is becoming relevant with recent patch to magic.

[Gez]

Hey! That's King Metafoblin! I didn't expect a Badnix crossover but here it is.

[Silly Name]

Out of curiosity, what mages are out there? Here are the magic-capable young characters I'm aware of.
Elliot: Dreaming. Reached Dreaming due to Dewitchery Diamond, resists efforts to Awaken.
Ellen: Awakened. Reached Dreaming due to Dewitchery Diamond, reached Awakened after leaving Moperville on a Scooby Mission.

Both Elliot and Ellen are awakened and that was triggered by the Dewitchery Diamond. Being awakened means you can learn and obtain new spells, which both Elliot and Ellen do. Dreamers are those who can use limited magic, such as those with a magic mark (e.g., Luke).

Susan: Awakened. Marked by French Immortals. Reached Dreaming at some point through heavy Mark usage. Awakened by Jerry.

Gonna be nitpicky: Jerry did not awaken Susan, though he is certainly responsible for her awakening.

Dex: Marked. Marked by Pandora. May reach Dreaming due to Mark usage, but doesn't seem to want more than the Mark's ability anyway.
Rhoda: Dreaming. Marked by Pandora. Reached Dreaming due to Mark usage.
Catalina: Marked. Marked by Pandora. May have reached Dreaming, undetermined at this point.

As said above, all those people are considered dreamers from the moment they got a mark. "Marked" and "Dreaming" are not synonymous because, supposedly, someone may have acces to magic without being either awakened or marked.

Jay: Awakened Wizard. Presumably a Seer. More of an archeologist than a scientist, it would seem. Actively seeks magic users to learn spells.

What makes Jay as a potential Seer? I presume because she's related to one, but do we have any hint that she found out about the seers' second function of consueling magic on changes? Otherwise, she cannot be one as she would have been present during the "voting session".

[Calemyr]

Other stuff...

Yeah, that's fair. I slipped up with Elliot, and Susan was more of a shorthand than a description. As for the others, it's not been spelled out fully who's where on the charts, I'm just pointing out that overuse of marks can lead to Dreaming, and Rhoda and Dex use their marks a lot. I also thought there was something about Rhoda being particularly advanced (like Justin), just not for the same reasons.

What makes Jay as a potential Seer? I presume because she's related to one, but do we have any hint that she found out about the seers' second function of consueling magic on changes? Otherwise, she cannot be one as she would have been present during the "voting session".

Mostly supposition on my part. I still read EGS, but it hasn't held my attention that well recently and I just read it out of habit, so certainly I may have slipped up. Judging from the above, it wouldn't be the only mistakes I've made.

We know there were multiple seers that were not qualified for the conference with magic due to learning the function. Assuming the clues we've been given at face value, we are told that Jay is the daughter of Arthur (an affirmed Seer) and an active wizard that seeks out mages with the intention of seeing their spells. She at very least wanted to do that in the joint dream story, and the behavior would fit in with the Smoke wizard* who tried to see Grace's transformation (and freaked out when it wasn't "proper" magic). Now, granted, we are not yet privy to how most wizards "learn" other people's spells (the only non-Seer wizard we're aware of in the new generation is Ashley who is the definition of neophyte), but the ability to "See" magic seemed to me to be a unique trait of Seers, suggesting to me that anyone who wanted to learn magic this way is probably a Seer. Jay has the bloodline and uses the learning style - at least once on screen and potentially twice. Until new curve balls get lobbed, my mind just files Jay under Seer. I'm not trying to be the arbiter of someone else's story, I'm just trying to extrapolate based on what I can remember off hand.

[Maat Mons]

I might be misremembering, but I though that Seers are incapable of directly using magic, and instead have to rely on creating wands and other magic items as a roundabout way of producing magical effects. Jay seems to be able to cast spells without wands or any such thing, so I thought that meant she can't be a seer.

I also thought that the whole benefit of being a Seer is that they can make new spells from scratch, and regular Wizards are stuck just copying existing spells they encounter. So the fact that Jay's going around finding spells to copy, to me, suggested that she's not a Seer, or else why wouldn't she design whatever spells she wants?

Also, bear in mind, whatever she's doing to learn those spells so easily and analyze magic might not be innate abilities she has. I've actually been assuming that her ability to sense magic is copied from Luke. Now, if that's a keystone of her trick to learn spells just by watching them being cast, it still begs the question of how she learned Luke's spell in the first place. But clearly Wizards all have some way of acquiring spells, even if it's normally a lot harder than just seeing them once. So if she lucked into a fast-learning spell as one of her earlier acquisitions, she might have only had to do it the hard way a few times.

[Douglas]

Mostly supposition on my part. I still read EGS, but it hasn't held my attention that well recently and I just read it out of habit, so certainly I may have slipped up. Judging from the above, it wouldn't be the only mistakes I've made.

We know there were multiple seers that were not qualified for the conference with magic due to learning the function. Assuming the clues we've been given at face value, we are told that Jay is the daughter of Arthur (an affirmed Seer) and an active wizard that seeks out mages with the intention of seeing their spells. She at very least wanted to do that in the joint dream story, and the behavior would fit in with the Smoke wizard* who tried to see Grace's transformation (and freaked out when it wasn't "proper" magic). Now, granted, we are not yet privy to how most wizards "learn" other people's spells (the only non-Seer wizard we're aware of in the new generation is Ashley who is the definition of neophyte), but the ability to "See" magic seemed to me to be a unique trait of Seers, suggesting to me that anyone who wanted to learn magic this way is probably a Seer. Jay has the bloodline and uses the learning style - at least once on screen and potentially twice. Until new curve balls get lobbed, my mind just files Jay under Seer. I'm not trying to be the arbiter of someone else's story, I'm just trying to extrapolate based on what I can remember off hand.

See this. I also remember some other comic that includes an explicit explanation that wizards learn spells by seeing them cast enough times, but I couldn't find it quickly. Jay being a wizard is enough to explain what we've seen from her, and her being a seer would require that she either knows significant things about magic that her father doesn't, or that she only learned that magic even really exists very recently.

[Rater202]

Dreamer: Has magical power but does not have their own spells.

Awakened: Gets their own spells, based on experiences and/or affinities.

Wizard: May or may not get spells of their own but can copy spells from others via seeing them enough or by reading them out of someone else's spellbook, though so far we've only been told that copying from a spellbook is a thing and never actually seen it. Wizards are born, not made, with the possible exception of Ashley.

Seer: A "wizard with a quirk" does not get spells of their own, but can copy spells, can create wands of spells they've copied, customize them, and even create new spells whole cloth if they know enough far more easily than other people. Seemingly cannot cast spells, but Arthur has cast a sleep spell seemingly without a and, though he did have a ring on his hand that he does not. Can see magic and intuitively understand how spells work, albeit not 100% perfectly. Since seer literally means "someone who sees," this is presumably where they get their name. Noted to have a great deal of magical power and magical resistance.

Tedd: Official a seer, but it's noted by both Pandora and Arthur that Tedd is... Better at it, than most seers. Pandora explicitly states that most seers would not be able to accomplish what Tedd has done with the resources he had available to him and Arthur explicitly states that Tedd's insight into magic is greater than his own and Pandora calls Tedd a "font" of power and Tedd's magical resistance and power are implicitly high even by Seer standards. The whale said that Tedd is not a spell user, but Pandora very clearly states that Tedd will eventually be able to cast spells, strongly emphasizing "you" when saying so. Tedd glows when they feel loved, which has been noticed and commented on by other characters. I do not want to assume that anything about Tedd is typical of other seers until stated otherwise as they've been noted twice to be exceptional.

[Windscion]

Tedd glows:

Eur-bloody-eka (https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2010-11-15)
She loves me (https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2007-11-24)
Emotional breakthrough (https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2006-08-09)

As far as I can see, the common theme here is Tedd advancing his insight, whether into himself or into magic.
I get the impression Shive thought it was better than the traditional "lightbulb going on overhead" bit.

/** ** ** ** **/

Tau day: Luke is correct. Well done, Luke.

[Dire Moose]

I also agree with Luke on this one. The plan was already really sketchy. Being up front with them is the right way to handle this.

[Celestia]

I also agree with Luke on this one. The plan was already really sketchy. Being up front with them is the right way to handle this.

Definitely. I don't even buy this whole "protecting them from knowledge" thing. It's just a bad excuse whenever it's used. It's a stretch at the best of times, but it's downright nonsense here. We know the government and are on good terms with them, and we know there's no evil organization. There is literally zero threat to anyone for knowing about magic. Telling them everything can only help protect them.

[Yuki Akuma]

Jay ain't a Seer. We've seen her cast a spell on-panel, and Seers can't do that.

And before you mention Arthur putting Ellen to sleep, he was clearly using a wand in the form of a ring to do that. Given he has never been shown wearing that ring before or since.

[Rater202]

Jay ain't a Seer. We've seen her cast a spell on-panel, and Seers can't do that.

And before you mention Arthur putting Ellen to sleep, he was clearly using a wand in the form of a ring to do that. Given he has never been shown wearing that ring before or since.

Ther'es no actual indication that the Ring does anything.

Beyond that, Pandora does, in fact, explicitly state that Tedd will be able to cast spells.

The only statements that Seers can't cast spells come from Tedd himself, saying he had no potential to cast spells according to the unnecessarily loud magic detector(and that was because the detector said he had virtually no magical potential, which we know is a false read.)

And the Whale, which said that Tedd wasn't a "spell user" in response to Tedd asking if she'd ever get spells of her own.

And if Pandora only meant that Tedd would cast with wands, then her speech was incredibly misleading as it was previously established that casting spells with wands or marks didn't count as you casting(though they can tap your energy an help you build up power.)

Since Pandora got her knowledge of seers straight from Heka, I'll take her statement over the Whale's.

But yeah, there's no evidence that Jay is anything but

[Gnoman]

I don't remember the exact section to check, but wasn't there a mention that "wandmaker" is a subcategory of Seer, and most Seers can't make wands in the first place?

[Rater202]

I don't remember the exact section to check, but wasn't there a mention that "wandmaker" is a subcategory of Seer, and most Seers can't make wands in the first place?

No.

Wandmaker and Seer are synonymous, and Seer's are a subcategory if Wizard.

[Silly Name]

Arthur thought himself "a wizard with a knack", implying he had always believed he could replicate other people's spells.

It seems that Tedd's (current) inability to use magic is either a quirk of his, since Tedd is outside of the norm even for Seers, or perhaps a consequence of being told that he's incapable of magic and focusing on technology all this time (in-comic, Tedd's experimentation with "true" magic have been going on for, what, a few weeks? Two months?)

[Mith]

I even put "as she described it" and it got blown right past, sigh.

My apologies, I had recalled her calling it an apocalypse not as 'I will destroy the world' as her actual quote. Considering that Dan is the sort of person to have an immortal use a very specific definition of a word that gets translated completely differently. I am pretty sure that exact difference comes up later in the comic in one form or another.

Again my apologies.

[Kish]

My apologies, I had recalled her calling it an apocalypse not as 'I will destroy the world' as her actual quote. Considering that Dan is the sort of person to have an immortal use a very specific definition of a word that gets translated completely differently. I am pretty sure that exact difference comes up later in the comic in one form or another.

Again my apologies.

It's okay. It did come up in the comic--but Dex was the one who said "I bring an apocalypse," when he was being mind-whammied by the evil dresses-all-in-white immortal.

Arthur thought himself "a wizard with a knack", implying he had always believed he could replicate other people's spells.

Quirk, not knack. And replicating other people's spells is the definition of a wizard, so yes, of course he did; he copies other people's spells and puts them in wands (which may be ring-shaped).

Also...cough.

So I really hope we can put "a seer is strictly a wizard-plus, not a sidegrade, and Tedd will learn to cast non-Mark spells without needing an item at some point" to bed now.

[Rater202]

All that does is confirm that Arthur's ring is a wand... Kinda, Dan says that the ring was prominent for a reason but doesn't give the reason.

Dan is very big on exact words, as we've noted. Voltair made a man say "to save this world I bring an Apocalypse" in order to frame Pandora, with Apcoalyse in it's original 'great revelation' meaning.

Dan did not say that there were no other loopholes. Dan said that no other loophole had been established. That's basically a non-answer, it doesn't actual tell us anything new.

It also doesn't address the fact that Pandora explicitly said that Tedd would cast spells eventually.

"You, you will cast them" is pretty clearly a direct statement referring to Tedd specifically rather than an indirect way of saying that Tedd will make things to cast them for her. In general, everything Pandora says about Tedd on that page is referring to what Tedd is rather than what Tedd can do at this exact moment in time.

and I don't think something that is, in fact, explicitly better than a default wizard counts as a side-grade, even if it does have a drawback. Everything we know for a fact is a universal trait of seers indicates that even if Pandora is a filthy liar who lies when she has no reason to lie to someone she's trying to comfort, being dependant on wands isn't enough to outweigh all of the other improvements.

[Mith]

All that does is confirm that Arthur's ring is a wand... Kinda, Dan says that the ring was prominent for a reason but doesn't give the reason.

Dan is very big on exact words, as we've noted. Voltair made a man say "to save this world I bring an Apocalypse" in order to frame Pandora, with Apcoalyse in it's original 'great revelation' meaning.

Dan did not say that there were no other loopholes. Dan said that no other loophole had been established. That's basically a non-answer, it doesn't actual tell us anything new.

It also doesn't address the fact that Pandora explicitly said that Tedd would cast spells eventually.

"You, you will cast them" is pretty clearly a direct statement referring to Tedd specifically rather than an indirect way of saying that Tedd will make things to cast them for her. In general, everything Pandora says about Tedd on that page is referring to what Tedd is rather than what Tedd can do at this exact moment in time.

and I don't think something that is, in fact, explicitly better than a default wizard counts as a side-grade, even if it does have a drawback. Everything we know for a fact is a universal trait of seers indicates that even if Pandora is a filthy liar who lies when she has no reason to lie to someone she's trying to comfort, being dependant on wands isn't enough to outweigh all of the other improvements.

This wonder if Tedd may figure out how to craft marks. They have been described (though likely a gag joke at first) as being so much magic potential that they glow in the visible spectrum. They may be able to have the power and ability to just give themselves any spells they can properly break down and reconstruct in due time.


And I knew the "Apocalypse = Revelations" was brought up in the comic. Just had the wrong scene and actor in mind.

[Kish]

Have we? The main thing I've noticed about precise wording, Rater, is that you sometimes decide on really off-the-wall readings of perfectly straightforward indications, and defend them to the mat and long past when you would have been counted out.

In this case, for example, your wording makes it clear that you have either thought of, or had pointed out to you already, the obvious and perfectly honest reading of Pandora's words, that Tedd can cast spells right now, from a wand, like every wizard with his specific quirk--every seer. But you've apparently decided that if you preemptively throw enough bile at the concept, that will equal refutation.

[Rater202]

Have we? The main thing I've noticed about precise wording, Rater, is that you sometimes decide on really off-the-wall readings of perfectly straightforward indications, and defend them to the mat and long past when you would have been counted out.

In this case, for example, your wording makes it clear that you have either thought of, or had pointed out to you already, the obvious and perfectly honest reading of Pandora's words, that Tedd can cast spells right now, from a wand, like every wizard with his specific quirk--every seer. But you've apparently decided that if you preemptively throw enough bile at the concept, that will equal refutation.

I throw it out because Pandora isn't saying "you can cast spells" but "you will cast spells." Future tense, she's talking about Tedd's potential, not what Tedd can do now.

and because it was previously established that using a wand or casting a spell from a mark did not count as "you" casting the spell, even if it uses your magical energy.

Tedd flat out says that's probably why she can be marked when they discover she's marked, she's not technically the one casting the spell Pandora gave her...

Actually, the fact that Seers can be marked seems to indicate that Seers can cast spells but the means of doing so hasn't been established yet. In every other case, an immortal can only give a Mark to someone if it's a spell that person can cast, is willing to cast, and is in the right mind space to be compatible with that magic at the time of the marking.

In other words, the kind of spell they'd get naturally if they awakened.

[Celestia]

With all this tedious debate, I decided to go back and actually read the pages in question. Link 1, Link 2, Link 3. Pandora is absolutely, 100% talking about wands here. The "you will cast it" part is in reference to Tedd's well of magic energy, not any sort of innate casting ability. Furthermore, Tedd explicitly says that they will never cast spells of their own, and Pandora doesn't refute this, instead pointing out all of Tedd's other abilities to cheer them up. I can say with complete confidence that Seers cannot cast spells without wands or marks.

[Gez]

With all this tedious debate, I decided to go back and actually read the pages in question. Link 1, Link 2, Link 3. Pandora is absolutely, 100% talking about wands here. The "you will cast it" part is in reference to Tedd's well of magic energy, not any sort of innate casting ability. Furthermore, Tedd explicitly says that they will never cast spells of their own, and Pandora doesn't refute this, instead pointing out all of Tedd's other abilities to cheer them up. I can say with complete confidence that Seers cannot cast spells without wands or marks.

Well, if you contrast link 1 with link 3, you have Pandora saying "you cannot cast spells on your own, but you can learn spells and use them" and then "take any spell you witnessed, make it your own, improve it, share it, and know that you will be able to cast it".

So she clearly says 1. that Tedd cannot cast spells and 2. that Tedd will be able to cast spells.

[Rater202]

Well, if you contrast link 1 with link 3, you have Pandora saying "you cannot cast spells on your own, but you can learn spells and use them" and then "take any spell you witnessed, make it your own, improve it, share it, and know that you will be able to cast it".

So she clearly says 1. that Tedd cannot cast spells and 2. that Tedd will be able to cast spells.

And in page three, she puts a great deal of emphasis on Tedd as the caster. "You, you will be able to cast it, for you are a well of power!"

She in fact puts a great deal of emphasis on Tedd's power and potential, talking about what a magical badass-en-potenia she is...

I think it comes back to the case of Marks. Tedd is Marked. You can't mark someone who is awakened, and someone who is already marked who is awakened loses their mark and gains their mark-spell as one of their own spells.

So, clearly, Tedd is only dreaming right now.

Mayhaps Seers don't Awaken on their own, something needs to happen before they can Awaken and start casting spells properly(in which case, that wouldn't be a "loophole") and Pandora was planning to make sure Tedd awakened when she was ready too. Presumably, Heka told her something that the Whales didn't know, or the Whales were referring to being a "spell-user" in a manner that referred specifically to spells "of one's own" or they don't consider a Seer's customized spells to be "spells."

It could also be something unique to Tedd. Pandora connects the fact that Tedd will cast spells to Tedd's raw power, which we have every reason to believe is either unique to Tedd or at least absurdly rare, considering the circumstances relating too it.

Honestly, I'd kind of like Tedd to meet Heka at some point.

[Yuki Akuma]

Why do you insist that characters speak like lawyers and always mean precisely what they are logically saying? Why can't characters speak poetically?

And why must what characters say take precedent over what the author says about the setting?

Why do you want this so badly? Why do you keep derailing the thread with the same argument?

[Vinyadan]

One thing that came to my mind is that magic has changed, and barriers that once were there have been removed.

On the other hand, how this change happened wasn't chosen by Pandora, so she cannot have been talking about it to Ted.

I do feel some curiosity about Ted awakening. However, even Lord Ted, who seems to be extremely powerful, to the point of ruling over Grace's equivalent, still uses the glove.