The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

[Grim Portent]

I did mean the Good Daedra when I referred to the restored Tribunal. I think their proper terms are technically the New Tribunal and the Reclamations, but I was blanking on the exact terms used by the temple on Solstheim at the time.

[Triaxx]

I am a member of the Bards College trained by (name of DB contracted bard) give me the throne or I'll sing at you.

[LibraryOgre]

I am a member of the Bards College trained by (name of DB contracted bard) give me the throne or I'll sing at you.

Fuuuus! Roooooohhhhh! Daaaaaaaaahhhhhhh! *jazz hands*

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Fuuuus! Roooooohhhhh! Daaaaaaaaahhhhhhh! *jazz hands*

I was thinking the 1812 Overture, but with 'FUS!' in place of cannon fire.

[Anteros]

I am a member of the Bards College trained by (name of DB contracted bard) give me the throne or I'll sing at you.

We can joke, but having access to a loyal propaganda machine like the Bard's college is probably worth more than almost anything else if you're trying to seize power.

[Keltest]

We can joke, but having access to a loyal propaganda machine like the Bard's college is probably worth more than almost anything else if you're trying to seize power.

I think the bard's college has made it quite clear that they dont serve the king as his own personal propaganda machine. Youll have to genuinely earn the praise.

[Anteros]

I think the bard's college has made it quite clear that they dont serve the king as his own personal propaganda machine. Youll have to genuinely earn the praise.

Which presumably you've done.

[Rater202]

Which presumably you've done.

Yeah, you got that holiday reinstated and found the missing instruments or three guys. What more could you do?

And honestly when the King is a member of the Bards College and friends with several bards tha'ts a different matter than the Bards working for a king who doesn't care.

"Hey, our buddy did a genuinely impressive thing, let's make sure people know about it" isn't propaganda, even if the buddy in question is the King.

Also, "find people you can trust to handle the day to ay stuff while you rule from the front, traveling the country to make sure your people are safe and evil is vanquished" isn't exactly a bad way to be King.

[Anteros]

Yeah, you got that holiday reinstated and found the missing instruments or three guys. What more could you do?

And honestly when the King is a member of the Bards College and friends with several bards tha'ts a different matter than the Bards working for a king who doesn't care.

"Hey, our buddy did a genuinely impressive thing, let's make sure people know about it" isn't propaganda, even if the buddy in question is the King.

Also, "find people you can trust to handle the day to ay stuff while you rule from the front, traveling the country to make sure your people are safe and evil is vanquished" isn't exactly a bad way to be King.

I mean, my Dragonborn did a few more things than that. Maybe yours didn't.

Also, propaganda doesn't have to be inherently untrue. It can be as simple as playing up your good traits and not mentioning the bad ones.

[Spore]

I mean, my Dragonborn did a few more things than that. Maybe yours didn't.

Not Rater, but in my mind, the several guild questlines and daedric quests are absolutely not in the same "canon". The dragonborn MIGHT have joined the Thieves' Guild and the Companions, but never explicitly both, plus the Dark Brotherhood and the College.

I do this to cope with the fact that the guilds take any old idiot as long as they see the main character life bar above their head.

[Rater202]

Not Rater, but in my mind, the several guild questlines and daedric quests are absolutely not in the same "canon". The dragonborn MIGHT have joined the Thieves' Guild and the Companions, but never explicitly both, plus the Dark Brotherhood and the College.

I do this to cope with the fact that the guilds take any old idiot as long as they see the main character's life bar above their head.

That might be the case in previous games, but in Skyrim the main questline actively directs you to join both the Thieves Guild and the college.

You can bypass this, but it's clearly not the intended way of doing so.

The Dark Brotherhood and Thieve's guild cross-reference each other, while the Dark Brotherhood also has a reference to the Companions.

The only questline that isn't either tied to the main questline or cross-reference with another faction quest is the Companions.

you are also required to join and progress all the factions in order to get certain words of power, that are in dungeons that are locked off until they get opened up during a Faction quest. The exception is the Dark brotherhood, since it only has the word Wall in their sanctuary, you can get the word by destroying them as well.

It very much seems that the intent of Skyrim is that you do every questline.

[Caelestion]

That's modern Bethesda for you,obsessed with the idea that you miss out on some (gasp!) content.

[Fyraltari]

That might be the case in previous games, but in Skyrim the main questline actively directs you to join both the Thieves Guild

Does it? I don't remember that.

[Keltest]

Does it? I don't remember that.

It directs you to talk with Brynjolf to find Esbern, but doesnt explicitly require you to actually join the guild. Bryn will only tell you where he is if you become at least associated with them though.

[Rater202]

Does it? I don't remember that.

It's not direct.

When you have to find Esbern in the Ratway you're instructed to talk to Brynyolf, but talking to him under normal circumstances will automatically start his own quest, and if you start his quest then you can't progress the quest o find Esbern until you complete his quest and join the Thieve guild.

This isn't a problem if you're already in the guild, and there are a couple of ways to bypass this, but the intent is clear.

[Keltest]

It's not direct.

When you have to find Esbern in the Ratway you're instructed to talk to Brynyolf, but talking to him under normal circumstances will automatically start his own quest, and if you start his quest then you can't progress the quest o find Esbern until you complete his quest and join the Thieve guild.

This isn't a problem if you're already in the guild, and there are a couple of ways to bypass this, but the intent is clear.

I'd just like to point out that you arent properly in the guild until a couple quests later. I think its the Goldenglow hit where you fully become a member instead of just an affiliate thief.

[Rater202]

I'd just like to point out that you arent properly in the guild until a couple quests later. I think its the Goldenglow hit where you fully become a member instead of just an affiliate thief.

I mean, you're doing jobs for the guild, so... I'd say more of a "junior member" or an "initiation period" situation rather than being an affiliate.

[Keltest]

I mean, you're doing jobs for the guild, so... I'd say more of a "junior member" or an "initiation period" situation rather than being an affiliate.

Sure, but you do jobs for the guild to get in to the guild anyway. The distinction is semantic, youre not considered a full member.

[Grim Portent]

I do this to cope with the fact that the guilds take any old idiot as long as they see the main character life bar above their head.

They do explain why though.

The Companions nominally accept anyone who can fight and see how they work out, though in the DBs case Kodlak also had a prophetic dream about them. You could literally show up as a farmboy turned mercenary and they'd at least see if you have what it takes.

The College of Winterhold accepts any applicants who can cast spells and approach them under the pretense of learning more.

The Dark Brotherhood are desperate and want to hire basically anyone who'll kill people and do as they're told.

The Thieves Guild are even more desperate and Brynjolf had a hunch that you'd work out, and at this point what does he have to lose?

The rapid advancement in each guild comes down to special circumstances, the College is the only organisation that's actually healthy prior to the Dragonborn's involvement, and they then, at the urging of the NPC students, stumble into what would have been disastrous circumstances without your presence.

[Rodin]

Of the lot the only one I find jarring is the Thieves' Guild. You walk into Riften and Brynjolf walks up to a guy who's been in the city 30 seconds and says "PSST! Wanna be a thief!?"

It's ridiculous. Leave rumors that there is a Thieves' Guild about and make me go look for them. Preferably with some sneaky checks. Make me find Brynjolf's squat in the sewers, pick the lock on the door and then sneak up on him. Something like that.

Or have something like the Thieves' Sign from the Quest For Glory games where you can impress a thief elsewhere in the game enough that he sends you to Riften to be inducted.

[factotum]

Of the lot the only one I find jarring is the Thieves' Guild. You walk into Riften and Brynjolf walks up to a guy who's been in the city 30 seconds and says "PSST! Wanna be a thief!?"

And if only that was the most ridiculous thing about the entire Thieves' Guild questline we'd be doing well! Quite apart from anything else, is there a single thief in the Guild who, when you're forced to accompany them into a dungeon, actually does...you know...sneaky stuff? They all seem to run into the middle of the largest group of enemies around screaming taunts, get almost immediately knocked out and leave me to have to clean up the mess...

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Or have something like the Thieves' Sign from the Quest For Glory games where you can impress a thief elsewhere in the game enough that he sends you to Riften to be inducted.

Haven’t played Quest for Glory so this may be unrelated, but they did go through all the trouble of putting Shadowmarks everywhere. A less obtrusive start to the quest line could have been ‘find and read the book describing Shadowmarks’ and then use that to find a building with the ‘Guild’ Shadowmark and either pick the lock or pickpocket a key for the building in question - which would both establish a basic level of relevant skills for your character and a willingness to break into places you weren’t invited into.

[Fyraltari]

Requiring thief skills to join the Thieves' Guild?! Next, you'll say the Archmage of the College of Winterhold should be good at magic!

[Anteros]

So speaking of Skyrim, I'm thinking of doing another run but I need a few mod recommendations. Firstly, I can't possibly motivate myself to do the normal intro through the point where you fight the giant spider thing, so I need a mod to skip all that while still letting my do the main quest later.

Secondly, I'd like something that fixes the level scaling. If I want to wander into something out of my depth and get punished for it, let me. Especially if the rewards are commensurate with the risk.

I'll probably grab some other quality of life mods too, but those are the biggest things. Thanks.

[mythmonster2]

So speaking of Skyrim, I'm thinking of doing another run but I need a few mod recommendations. Firstly, I can't possibly motivate myself to do the normal intro through the point where you fight the giant spider thing, so I need a mod to skip all that while still letting my do the main quest later.

Secondly, I'd like something that fixes the level scaling. If I want to wander into something out of my depth and get punished for it, let me. Especially if the rewards are commensurate with the risk.

I'll probably grab some other quality of life mods too, but those are the biggest things. Thanks.

If by the giant spider thing you mean Bleak Falls Barrow, I'm not sure of mods that let you skip that, but Live Another Life is the most popular mod that lets you skip the Helgen sequence. There's also several mods that mostly undo level scaling: Morrowloot Ultimate is the one I use for that.

[Rater202]

I'm sure there are console commands that can be used to put the golden claw and dragon stone in your inventory and mark the necessary questflags complete so you can complete those two quests without having to go to the barrow.

Not so sure about learning Fus though.

[Anteros]

If by the giant spider thing you mean Bleak Falls Barrow, I'm not sure of mods that let you skip that, but Live Another Life is the most popular mod that lets you skip the Helgen sequence. There's also several mods that mostly undo level scaling: Morrowloot Ultimate is the one I use for that.

Does that remove level scaling for mobs too or just loot? I'd prefer both.

[mythmonster2]

Does that remove level scaling for mobs too or just loot? I'd prefer both.

It does both, though with more of a focus on loot. Skyrim Unleveled is a mod that focuses on the world and enemies, but it comes with some bigger combat changes, too.

[LibraryOgre]

And if only that was the most ridiculous thing about the entire Thieves' Guild questline we'd be doing well! Quite apart from anything else, is there a single thief in the Guild who, when you're forced to accompany them into a dungeon, actually does...you know...sneaky stuff? They all seem to run into the middle of the largest group of enemies around screaming taunts, get almost immediately knocked out and leave me to have to clean up the mess...

One I have pointed out, in the Ancient Falmer quest, is "I've completed Dawnguard. Why do I have to sneak into Calcemo's Laboratory, again? I know an ancient Falmer. I can go ask him. He'll do it. He's lonely."

[Rodin]

Haven’t played Quest for Glory so this may be unrelated, but they did go through all the trouble of putting Shadowmarks everywhere. A less obtrusive start to the quest line could have been ‘find and read the book describing Shadowmarks’ and then use that to find a building with the ‘Guild’ Shadowmark and either pick the lock or pickpocket a key for the building in question - which would both establish a basic level of relevant skills for your character and a willingness to break into places you weren’t invited into.

The Thieves' Sign is a gesture that you use to identify yourself to other thieves. A sort of sneaky salute that identifies you in a way that nobody who isn't a guild member would recognize.

This being Quest For Glory, that gesture is patting your head and rubbing your belly at the same time.