Yu-Gi-Oh! GX: Werewolf!

[bladescape]

Okay, Rogan is town.

Gac3

Could use more pressure rn since no one wants to poke Book with me.

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FTR I refuse to take a stance on SJ but also voting out the person who hasn't shown up around Christmas time is a real feels bad.

Let the blighter at least post.

Or get subbed out I guess.

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Also not doing the 3/3 thing.

But I will answer questions that don't require me to comb the thread if ya got em.

This response brought to you by Blade's lazy and procrastinating side.

[Xihirli]

If the ghost posesses another body, which abilitys will the resulting wolf have?

Any possessed Player will keep the same powers regardless of their side.

[Rogan]

But voting Taff doesn't add anything at this point since they are currently two above the next highest wagon (if I'm remembering votes right... Actually, am I at 3 votes yet). So I could try to get a competing wagon to draw out more info but my one vote won't do much for that on top of, I don't have a good candidate for a competing wagon. The stress almost makes me want to self vote but I'll think of something. We still have time.

I'll take this as a request for a vote count? I'll give you a new vote count!

Vote Count:
bladescape(1?): (Book Wombat, before official start)
AvatarVecna(1): AvatarVecna
Taffimai (4): Snowblaze, Seandiggersby, Rogan, CaoimhinTheCape
Saint-Just (2): Supagoof, Taffimai
gac3 (2): Valmark, Batcathat, bladescape

not voting: gac3
no posts: Saint-Just

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I understand why you don't want to vote Taffi right now. Under different circumstances, I might encourage you to vote her anyway, since she might have the advantage of substracting votes, but since you would die if this happens, you would not try to buy her a single new day as this would be a terrible trade. (And I think, my sentence was terrible as well? Too long and too many comma... If you have trouble parsing it, tell me)

I don't expect / want you to vote yourself unless you can give a good reason for why you really want to have this vote there. Otherwise it's hard to take the vote serious.

I am looking forward to seeing your target and explanation.

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I think blades behaviour is in line for his town game. I might be biased, as allways, by seeing his town read on me. But I don't think so.
Now, I have a hard time remembering a wolf blades... Could someone remind me of the last match where blades was evil? Just to be sure...

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I should not be here at this time... I'll try to change it. Good night.
Oh, and could somebody please remind me to shut up if I start to post too much (again)..? Having no posts is bad, but having too many posts is not great either.

[Book Wombat]

In hindsight, it was a bit foolish to sign up for a game that would go on during Christmas. Oh well.
Crossed out my first vote, voting now for Rogan. Random because it's four thirty in the morning, might read the thread later but don't know if that'll help.
Also, isn't seven kind of an unlucky number?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

I definitely won't be around tomorrow afternoon or Christmas, even the 26th I won't be very available. So I wanna get some reads in and I'm sure in doing that I'll give 3 agrees/disagrees.

Spoiler: Town Reads

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Spoiler: Rogan

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If we have two good suspects, we might be able to set things up so that one of them has one more vote than the other. If suspect nr 1 is Donny, we will know. But it would buy him one more day, which might or might not have an impact.

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I got some bad vibes from Taff and AV.
AVs stance about the game start seems contradictory, she definitely payed some attention to the game since the beginning but refused to vote since it would not change things and take too much energy. But her first vote was the usual self vote, which doesn't change a thing either. But AV always looks suspicious... and I don't really want to vote there, since she was the narrator last game (and still got killed). I also don't really see a reason for wolf AV to act this way.

Taff made some strange statements, but she could explain a lot in the replies. There are still some parts of her post that I don't really like, so I think she is a good wagon. But since she is in the lead (unless I missed some shifting of votes) and there is still enough time for things to change, I won't vote there right now.

I don't think I like your line of thought. Sure, your explanation about a majority of wolves being willing to start with one man shot is possible, but I am not going to bet on this. Even if it turns out true, I could see a world where the wolves wan't to use this situation to gain credibilty by bussing. I don't think this is what will happen, but I could see it.
Your conclusion that lynching an inactive is better than a misslynch... Well, I'm a bit on the fence. If you misslynch someone active, you get to reread his posts with the knoledge of the allignment. You get to see who votet there, for which reasons. Thats some intel you are missing out.


About Snow...
I promise I will think about your words again if you die and turn out to be a villager. But right now I tend to think you are a wolf. Besides, independently of that, some people with more experience have read Snow as a villager.
Right now, my impression is, you are a wolf trying to throw some shade at her. It's easy to be paranoid about snow, after all.

I continue to dislike your stance. It's unlikely SJ will be able to give much input even if they come online on the 25 or something.
I'll take a guess here and say, many people will be rather inactive during the Christmas, so there won't be much interaction.
There is even more to it.
Going after someone with low activity to press them for information is somewhat fine, especially if you think they will react to this pressure, but going for someone who missed the game altogether is something worse.
From my perspective, you look like a wolf who finds herself in the spotlight of town. You are not ready to confess, but you think you will die/ get scried soon. So you don't want to give us any leads by voting for someone active.

But seriously... I have a very hard time to follow your line of thoughts. You have a wolf read, but don't want to tell us since you are afraid to lynch the Seer?
Unless someone has a serious Seer claim hidden somewhere (no, my Sig still is not serious), I fail to see who you might suspect as a Seer. It's day 1. Nobody used their powers, the only person with too much info are wolves.
And didn't you actually want to get the Seer killed last game?

Please give me some explanation for your post. There might be a misunderstanding.

This post looks very much like a wolf's perspective in my mind. It points out how accepting the deal hurts wolves and how they would not do this. But that's the problem. Even under ideal circumstances (deal accepted), Alexis is not a good role for town.

That's my initial reason for the vote, but I don't think she is acting good under pressure either. I strongly disagree about her current vote and the reasoning for it.



I was the first one to vote in general (for BCH) but it was before the official start.
As I said above, I didn't like some things from Taffi, but it didn't seem good enough to push the leading wagon even more. But then Snow corrected me and told me about some shifting votes, so I placed my vote where my mouth was before so things actually matter.

I hope this clears every confusion about my votes.

I voiced some concerns about AV before, but I don't think missing activity is among them. What kind of post would you expect?

I'm not finding any way to wolf read rogan here. I'm pretty sure it was love letter when Rogan got far by being active and a leader in the town. I don't want that to happen again so I tried reading through as if Rogan was wolf... and I'm just not seeing it. Rogan has been actively asking everyone questions, responding, and giving out reads.

I disagree on Alexis being anti town. If she can find her brother, then that's taking out a Wolf 1 for 1. I'd be happy with that trade, especially since we would theoretically see both of their flips and gets reads from that. Heck, if Nightshroud is in the game, they might be able to/want to just claim Day 1 or Night 1 so that Alexis can find him and they both win.

Makes some good points about Taff too. The only warning sign I can see is a possible Snow/Rogan team. I don't like the quote saying "some people with more experience have read Snow as a villager". Just trusting other people's reads alone doesn't help but given the rest of Rogan's posts, I trust he genuinely reads Snow as town too.

Spoiler: Bladescape

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I'll eventually be wrong on this but...

Snow is town I think.

We kinda already did this in our first game.

Taff townread:
I see post
I see thought process
I nod
I hum.
I read new post
I see thought process
I nod

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I would hardly say the read is definitive in any manner but

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Updated reads:
Rogan feels towny but my successful reads on them have been threadstate so I'm holding off for rn.

Cao is iffy.

Gac is iffy.

Book's lack of further input is definitely iffy.

I'd vote in Gac/Cao so far.

But I can also leave it where it is.

Okay, Rogan is town.

Gac3

Could use more pressure rn since no one wants to poke Book with me.

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FTR I refuse to take a stance on SJ but also voting out the person who hasn't shown up around Christmas time is a real feels bad.

There are a lot of reads here and that feels good. Takes longer than I expected to move his vote from Book to gac. But, if anything, that just makes me feel like blade/Taff and blade/SJ are unlikely to be Wolf teams.

Spoiler: gac3

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Batcathat because I'm curious to know if votes prior to the main phase starting count. Bat has posted twice since the start but not voted since the start. Also had at least one vote before the start but none after. So in a sense of evidence (yet), I lean into experimentation

If not for the fact that I have never heard of you and therefore assume you are new, I would be voting for you based on that choice. However you have one day of benefit of the doubt because of being new.

To be fair, I'm not voting Snow but I do have ideas for how to test them. They are dumb though and I'm not sure they will work. I'll let you know after.

I just realized that I thought this was a post from Saint when I skimmed. But also it's a pressure vote. Which they still haven't shown up at all. So its still better to mislynch an inactive townie than to mislynch an active townie.

See, the suspicions of Taff (from what I've noticed) seem to center around them starting a wagon without realizing it for a weak reason. That would be wolfy except one thing. I know there is logic for whether or not town benefits from lynching someone who hasn't said anything, but the real question is, what would wolves gain from it? If the idea is that its wolfy because they acted like they weren't starting a wagon when they did, then I don't see why wolves would care about a wagon on Saint, rather than someone like me (who is easy to justify votes for), Snow (who has a dangerous reputation), Book (who shows up just enough to potentially cause problems for wolves) or really anyone else. Saint doesn't seem like a high value target. ((Also I chose my examples based on potential wolf justifications for picking them. I am not trying to imply an active town read on any of them.))

Crap. I need to pick someone to vote for.

I just don't know who. It's one of those where nobody stands out except maybe Taff, who I'm starting to understand the logic behind voting them. But voting Taff doesn't add anything at this point since they are currently two above the next highest wagon (if I'm remembering votes right... Actually, am I at 3 votes yet). So I could try to get a competing wagon to draw out more info but my one vote won't do much for that on top of, I don't have a good candidate for a competing wagon. The stress almost makes me want to self vote but I'll think of something. We still have time.

I do not understand gac's original reasoning for a BCH vote and honestly that gives me town vibes. I feel like that doesn't come from a Wolf.

Disagree with the dislike of Sean's vote on Taff. Again, I got in trouble for not joining a wagon early in another game, cause Town should want bigger wagons to learn more. ehh.

Reading through gac's posts, I kept getting a wolfish feel until the last two. gac makes a good point that Wolves wouldn't be pushing for an SJ wagon when gac/Taff are just as good options. gac's reluctance to vote Taff also pushes me more toward a Town read, seeing as the other option is gac.

I'm putting this as a town read but ugh, I wish I liked the read more.

Spoiler: Neutral Reads

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Spoiler: Valmark

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@Xihirli: can you confirm, explicitely, that if Alpha wasn't in game the kill power would still be transmitted?

Left the white to make it seeable.

I would assume that Xihirli knows someone would dissect that text and so it's significant to what's in play- that said, it doesn't mean everything is at it seems (for example it doesn't mean Kagemaru isn't in play).

Most of the reason for me asking wether the kill power will still be in game even if Alpha isn't.

If I make them die slowly they could have the time to kill me fast! Or survive!

Well, one way is to indeed use a night power (I don't agree that it's a bad move)- the other is to ask the person in doubt to cohoperate and if they don't it's sus. Of course you need to be in a condition where the power/allegiance can be verified and you need to be trusted by the person that looks Town.

Personally I'll go ahead thinking those mentioned in the fluff text are the wolves present, but keep an eye out for others.

Agreed on the lynch inactive/misslynch. Town tipically doesn't want to lynch someone that partecipates little or someone absent- because you don't gain much from them in the long run. Exception could be if it was needed to test something.

So, brownie points for asking the Alpha question but that's easy for a Wolf to do. Valmark's suggestion of judging by someone cooperating with votes... That just seems like it's easy for Wolves to fake that for town points. I'll put my thoughts on inactive votes in a different spoiler, but tl;dr is that I don't fully agree there.

I'm putting Valmark as a neutral read that is kinda contingent on what gac/taff are. Val isn't pushing hard for anyone's lynch but assumidly doesn't want an SJ lynch and hasn't said anything about Taff. I don't wanna gun for Val right now but if either of gac/Taff are Wolf I think that's telling.

Spoiler: Batcathat

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It seems rereading the thread with a well-rested brain didn't give me the marvelous insights I was hoping for. I think I'll leave my vote where it is for now, something felt slightly off about Taff. It's super vague and probably wrong, but it's more than I have on anyone else.

I assumed the preemptive votes would count, but I suppose you might be right. So let's make my Taffimai vote really official.

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Is it just me or does gac's arguments for voting me read a little weird? It's hard to be unbiased since it's about me, so I won't change my own vote, but I'd love to hear what other people think about it.

Random vote for the person with the most votes isn't a great look (and it does sort of make me want to withdraw my own vote, since I'm not really suspicious enough of Taff for her to be the only plausable wagon).

Tough to say. I didn't think it was suspicious but then I've never been great at reading Snow. Worth keeping in mind, I suppose.

Although I'm still not sure about Taff (and I have a slight suspicion that she might be trying to pocket me) I feel like we should have more options, and I still have that bad feeling about gac3.

So, there's a clear progression from voting Taff to voting gac, which could be good that I'm seeing the logic or a Wolf bussing a partner but backing off when it becomes a wagon.. The quote about random voting the person with the most votes doesn't feel good to me - just a few games ago I got in trouble for not joining any of the early wagons.

Again, contingent on Taff/gac flips. If Taff is a Wolf we need to look into BCH.

Spoiler: Saint Just

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Nothing to analyze, so nothing here.

Spoiler: AvatarVecna

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You can vote if you want. But since we have no evidence against anybody yet, the only purpose of voting would be randomly having a wagon pop up that puts pressure on people so we can see how they react to pressure. And pressure can't exist yet because the game hasn't started - the countdown to death is not yet moving.

My point is that voting is already a lil weak D1, and that's extra-true when game hasn't even started yet. WW sucks up enough of my energy when it's already started (and not Christmas season, for that matter), I'm not spending an extra half day on mental energy on it that's literally incapable of affecting the final result just cuz a couple people are antsy.

Just like Rogan, I think pressure can exist before the game starts but I don't see an issue with not pushing hard pre Day 1.

So, nothing to really judge on.

Spoiler: Seandiggersby

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There isn't really much to go on yet so I'll just randomly vote for someone... Taffimai

One post with a random vote. Not much to judge so Neutral it is.

Spoiler: Book Wombat

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Third time's a charm!
bladescape, you won't escape!
Or will, probably more likely.

One post with a random vote. If it weren't the holidays I might already be putting this as a Wolf read. Neutral today but will definitely be looking at Book tomorrow.

While typing up this post, he votes Rogan. Don't like. I'm very tempted to put a vote on Book but I wanna give them a chance to read through the thread before moving my vote there.

Spoiler: Supagoof

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Allright, game on.

Not that my opinion has changed.

AvatarVecna - While this would be smart - AV has massive brownie points for narration in last game. Get's a pass until they sus...
BatCatHat - Usually a good choice, but I've target BCH for first points before. And I was right, but what are the odds that happens again.
Bladescape - "Escape" is literally in his name. Lol - too entertaining
Gac3 - The clue master. Figuring out what Gac hides is always fun, no sense in throwing that out the door.
BookWombat - Bookie always bring some sunshine into games that have gotten too serious. Best to keep him around.
CaoimhinTheCape - I owe Cao a debt. As in, I got a seer mislynch to happen to him. I will be in his debt for that delightful memory.
Rogan - Lawful Rogan - guys a paladin. More then once though, he's stood up for me on my extended weekends away from the forum.
Saint-Just - Only played with SJ once, last game. Perhaps give him the joy of being a senseless bandwagon day 1?
Seandiggersby - New guy. Don't want to scare new players away by killing them day 1.
Snowblaze - Snow. If she's a wolf, they'll likely kill her before town does. Bus-master extraordinaire that she is.
Taffimal - Good player, have done 2 games with Taffi. Her analysis each time enabled a win for my team. Starting to think she's a good luck charm.
Valmark - Another new guy. Same as before, don't want to scare new guys away.


Not so random point at Saint-Just.. See logic above. And also cause I'm too lazy to rewrite any new logic.

Somewhat random vote that started the SJ wagon. No wolf points for this, but I'd be curious what Goof thinks now that we've had a few pages of discussion. Like Book, this is low Neutral and I'll reevaluate on Day 2.

Spoiler: Snowblaze

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Yeah, I... don't really get Taffimai's suspicions of me. If my being hyper-self-aware is just a character trait then it's not suspicious.

I think I'm now officially wolfreading her.

Not really sure what to make of Snow. She has a lot of posts but looking back I'm not seeing a lot to analyze. Votes Taff early and eventually comes to a Wolf read. I don't think lampshading an OMGUS vote makes a Wolf read but... there's a lot of Snow's posts where I don't find a reason for her to look Town.

If Taff flips wolf then I'm happy to say Snow is probably Town. This doesn't look like bussing. But I'm not putting Snow in my Town reads for a bit.

Spoiler: Taffimai

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@Batcat Can I have your opinion on Snow's Caoimhin vote? I don't like it. She has this thing with "I'm going to do something many people think is sus and I'll point it out that it's sus while I'm at it" and I really wish she would stop doing that. On the one hand, there were plenty of other random votes possible so why. On the other hand I was expecting her to vote for me (right down to the formulation of her reasoning for it) so maybe the only reason it's pinging me is that it's subverting my expectations.

I originally had a theory that you always meant to vote me but because Batcat did you didn't want to create a wagon with your random vote and had to come up with something on the fly, but that's nonsense because he came after you. Now I'm thinking pressure?

Assuming "that last bit" is this: "the only reason it's pinging me is that it's subverting my expectations". For example, Valmark always votes the first person on the list who hasn't been voted for. He did, which confirms my expectations so that post feels good. Your first post felt off. "Pinging" is a term I've picked up from reading Mafia Universe.

No. Personally I think OMGUS is only mildly wolfy, and even less so at the start of the game when you're giving nonsense reasons anyway and your vote is still expected to move. What bothers me about Snow's post is that Snow is hyper-aware of whether her actions look town or wolf. You can see this in her reason for voting me:

In her mind 1) all players should always be aware of and care about whether their actions look town or not (because that's how she is herself) and 2) calling out your own suspicious actions somehow makes them better. I strongly disagree with both of those. Wolves care more about looking town than townies do, so lampshading your own actions looks to me like a wolf actively trying to look town. I have come to accept that extreme self-awareness is just a character trait for Snow, but it annoys me. She could've voted anywhere else, but instead she knowingly creates this ambiguity. I don't like it.

Snow made a post (or a couple) I don't like. She's not my top wolf read. The problem is that my top wolf read is my top wolf read for the same reason I suspected Caoimhin last time, and this game I have no interest in getting the seeer killed.

At the beginning of last game I thought Caoimhin might be a wolf (and a bad one at that, sorry Caoimhin). It wasn't until he claimed that the pieces fell into place and I knew he was speaking the truth. Go look, I brought up the idea that he might be a fool, I came up with the "flipping Supagoof will be NAI" argument, I said that if nobody counterclaimed we should lynch the claimed seeer rather than their target while actually it should have meant that there was only one of them so he should be trusted. That post is just dripping with "I want to lynch me some seeer"-drool. And don't forget that had I not killed my fellow wolf that night, we would have won the next morning with a 3v3. I'm still kicking myself.

This game, someone is standing out to me for similar reasons to why I initially thought Caoimhin was a wolf - but now I know that they might be doing it on purpose. And no, it's not me. You (and the wolves) will have to find them yourself

@everyone since we're heading into what I expect to be a long period with low activity (but it's more aimed at the people who have weighed in only a little or not at all so I can try to get rid of some of my null reads): I know that it's hard to give wolf/town reads this early on, but could you go through the thread and find 3 statements that you agree with, and 3 that you disagree with, with maybe some comments please?

So, I'm putting Taff separate cause I don't Town or Neutral read her so she's a Wolf read by default. I don't hate the suspicion of Snow, but I don't like the reason given. The SJ vote is also bad in my eyes since there's legitimate reasons to be busy right now and I don't think inactivity is a Wolf tell.

I understand the reasoning for what Taff was thinking last game - a power role may intentionally look scummy to avoid being targeted by the Wolves. However, you saw how that strategy worked out for me - when it came time to reveal the Town didn't trust me enough to actually follow my lead. We're all power roles this game so it's possible that it's an important power trying to hide but I'd still suggest following up on your Wolf read rather than voting SJ.

Spoiler: Voting someone who is inactive

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So, the way I see it having someone inactive is a double edged sword. They aren't providing info or reads as Town or aren't incriminating themselves as Wolves.

It seems like most people here are on the side of "lynching an inactive means the flip provides little info". There's merit to that - it's harder to find somewhere to go from there if they turn up Wolf. If they turn up town then Wolves got a free lynch without much work put into it. I'd argue that you can still get reads based on who supported the lynch but that'll only get you so far.

Taff and I are on the side of "leaving an inactive causes problems at endgame". I don't want to put words in Taff's mouth so from my side, I don't want to be sitting in a Lylo situation with people I can't read. They're automatically a suspect at lylo and if they are Town are an easy mislynch for the Wolves to push. I wouldn't have much to read to inform my decision and I'd essentially be taking a shot in the dark on whether or not to trust them. Plus, I'd rather lose to someone who posted more and legitimately fooled me than losing because I couldn't make an informed decision.


All that said, this is the time of year when I understand being inactive/not posting much. So that's why I'm not pushing for lynching someone who is posting less.

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Vote Count:
Rogan (1): Book Wombat
AvatarVecna (1): AvatarVecna
Taffimai (4): Snowblaze, Sean, Rogan, CaoimhinTheCape
Saint-Just (2): Supagoof, Taffimai
gac3 (3): Valmark, BatCatHat, bladescape
Not voting: Gac3, Saint-Just

[Saint-Just]

I am really sorry, most likely I would not be able to participate meaningfully. IRL things have become very difficult. Especially in such a power-heavy game I wouldn't be able to track everything to a sufficient standard; I also have no idea how to use my power meaningfully (I've counted on studying it after the game started, but I have no options now). I propose lynching me, though if I survive I will try my best, though it's unlikely to be any good.

Saint-Just

[gac3]

Okay, Rogan is town.

Gac3

Could use more pressure rn since no one wants to poke Book with me.

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FTR I refuse to take a stance on SJ but also voting out the person who hasn't shown up around Christmas time is a real feels bad.

Let the blighter at least post.

Or get subbed out I guess.

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Also not doing the 3/3 thing.

But I will answer questions that don't require me to comb the thread if ya got em.

This response brought to you by Blade's lazy and procrastinating side.

Why is Rogan town? I'd like to hear your logic because I missed any big things and Book voted Rogan like two posts beneath this.

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So... Now the top wagons are 3/3/4.

What are tie rules? I really don't want to vote saint now after what they've said. So I might vote Taff... Need to check the OP for vote manipulation powers since that was mentioned.

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Found the vote manipulation power... Interesting... So of that's Taff then voting for them probably wouldn't even save me. If that's not them then Taff is currently up for lynch. So if I die with Taff in the lead, then we lynch Taff tomorrow. Interesting.

[Valmark]

Spoiler: Rogan

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I disagree on Alexis being anti town. If she can find her brother, then that's taking out a Wolf 1 for 1. I'd be happy with that trade, especially since we would theoretically see both of their flips and gets reads from that. Heck, if Nightshroud is in the game, they might be able to/want to just claim Day 1 or Night 1 so that Alexis can find him and they both win.

Spoiler: Valmark

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So, brownie points for asking the Alpha question but that's easy for a Wolf to do. Valmark's suggestion of judging by someone cooperating with votes... That just seems like it's easy for Wolves to fake that for town points. I'll put my thoughts on inactive votes in a different spoiler, but tl;dr is that I don't fully agree there.

I'm putting Valmark as a neutral read that is kinda contingent on what gac/taff are. Val isn't pushing hard for anyone's lynch but assumidly doesn't want an SJ lynch and hasn't said anything about Taff. I don't wanna gun for Val right now but if either of gac/Taff are Wolf I think that's telling.

Spoiler: Voting someone who is inactive

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So, the way I see it having someone inactive is a double edged sword. They aren't providing info or reads as Town or aren't incriminating themselves as Wolves.

It seems like most people here are on the side of "lynching an inactive means the flip provides little info". There's merit to that - it's harder to find somewhere to go from there if they turn up Wolf. If they turn up town then Wolves got a free lynch without much work put into it. I'd argue that you can still get reads based on who supported the lynch but that'll only get you so far.

Taff and I are on the side of "leaving an inactive causes problems at endgame". I don't want to put words in Taff's mouth so from my side, I don't want to be sitting in a Lylo situation with people I can't read. They're automatically a suspect at lylo and if they are Town are an easy mislynch for the Wolves to push. I wouldn't have much to read to inform my decision and I'd essentially be taking a shot in the dark on whether or not to trust them. Plus, I'd rather lose to someone who posted more and legitimately fooled me than losing because I couldn't make an informed decision.


All that said, this is the time of year when I understand being inactive/not posting much. So that's why I'm not pushing for lynching someone who is posting less.

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Vote Count:
Rogan (1): Book Wombat
AvatarVecna (1): AvatarVecna
Taffimai (4): Snowblaze, Sean, Rogan, CaoimhinTheCape
Saint-Just (2): Supagoof, Taffimai
gac3 (3): Valmark, BatCatHat, bladescape
Not voting: Gac3, Saint-Just

Regarding Rogan: wait, did we confirm that Alexis is here to get out with Nightshroud?

Regarding me: worth it to note that I haven't said that. I said to judge them based on wether they cohoperate, with no mention of votes that... Would actually be unreliable, I think.
One thing is if someone is decisive to take a wolf down- for example if I swirched from gac to Taffimai, killing the counterwagon. But otherwise it wouldn't be a good way to test them.

And even then it may just have been the pressure that makes a wolf vote another wolf.

As far as inactives go, there's one more downside to voting them- assuming they are Town, you wasted the lynch. The situation stays the same but with two less non-wolf deaths going into the next Day. Most of the time.

Exceptions apply like in power games such as this one where powers can yeld results so you don't necessarily still go in the next Day with nothing new to go on.

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*two more non-wolf deaths, not less.

[Snowblaze]

I'm a bit ill, so if I become completely incoherent then that's why.

I don't think SJ does that as a wolf unless he's exactly Nightshroud, which is unlikely enough that I feel okay clearing him.

I don't think other players should care more about how they look. And "lampshading suspicious actions makes you look less suspicious" ... kind of true under certain circumstances. But then again I don't think OMGUS as an opening post when there's nothing to go on is that suspicious (yes, I am biased).

That kind of ties into one of my main concerns about Taffimai, which is that she's criticising the way I play without actually explaining why it makes me a wolf.

That being said... there's the Seer read thing. Which I think isn't the kind of route a wolf is likely to go down.

I don't really have any better options, though. I'm not voting SJ, and I don't particularly want to murder gac for weird logic lacking clear wolf motivation. I'm considering Caoimhin but I have a tendency to wolfread their early game regardless of alignment so I'll give them time.

Not doing the 3/3 thing due to feeling awful, but there should be enough content to work with here anyway.

[Batcathat]

So, there's a clear progression from voting Taff to voting gac, which could be good that I'm seeing the logic or a Wolf bussing a partner but backing off when it becomes a wagon.. The quote about random voting the person with the most votes doesn't feel good to me - just a few games ago I got in trouble for not joining any of the early wagons.

To clarify, my issue wasn't with the vote as such but with it being presented as random. While it's certainly possible for a genuinely random vote to happen to be on the lead wagon, it did give me some wolfy vibes. But yeah, it's not exactly a strong argument, especially with new player. I just thought it was worth pointing out.

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gac's later posts feel more towny, but I'm not sure who I'd vote for instead if I moved off him (I feel like the hipster of voting for Taff, abandoning it as it becomes popular). I should probably just reread everything from scratch and try to see if my various vibes are based on anything but my questionable gut.

[Batcathat]

I decided to start with just doing a light ISO on gac, hoping to either strengthen or remove my suspicions against him but it didn't really do either. Him sort of defending Taff a couple of times seems odd coming from a wolf, but I wouldn't rule out him being a wolf building future cred for after Taff flips town. There's also the possibility of both of them being wolves (if that's the case, I'll be very smug ) but I'm not sure how likely that is.

I'd also completely missed gac's reasoning on AV's activity. Kind of interesting, but probably not that useful to draw conclusions about either of them at this stage.

[gac3]

Professor Shepherd – Seer

What? I'm confused what is happening. Are you even playing? I don't see a James on the list.

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I'm a bit ill, so if I become completely incoherent then that's why.

I don't think SJ does that as a wolf unless he's exactly Nightshroud, which is unlikely enough that I feel okay clearing him.

I don't think other players should care more about how they look. And "lampshading suspicious actions makes you look less suspicious" ... kind of true under certain circumstances. But then again I don't think OMGUS as an opening post when there's nothing to go on is that suspicious (yes, I am biased).

That kind of ties into one of my main concerns about Taffimai, which is that she's criticising the way I play without actually explaining why it makes me a wolf.

That being said... there's the Seer read thing. Which I think isn't the kind of route a wolf is likely to go down.

I don't really have any better options, though. I'm not voting SJ, and I don't particularly want to murder gac for weird logic lacking clear wolf motivation. I'm considering Caoimhin but I have a tendency to wolfread their early game regardless of alignment so I'll give them time.

Not doing the 3/3 thing due to feeling awful, but there should be enough content to work with here anyway.

Honestly, the best part of looking Wolfy most of the time, is i gave up a long time ago on caring if what I'm about to say will "look Wolfy"

[Batcathat]

What? I'm confused what is happening. Are you even playing? I don't see a James on the list.

I'm pretty sure it's spam, judging by his other posts.

[Xihirli]

Spam bots on GitP tend to just repeat a random phrase that's already been said or say "Oh, it's very interesting" to get enough post counts to put up links. Just report them, say "bot" and move on.

[Rogan]

In hindsight, it was a bit foolish to sign up for a game that would go on during Christmas. Oh well.
Crossed out my first vote, voting now for Rogan. Random because it's four thirty in the morning, might read the thread later but don't know if that'll help.
Also, isn't seven kind of an unlucky number?

I'm not exactly happy about a random vote at this time, but Christmas is a valid explanation. I think this post in the middle of the night makes sense as a townie who is stressed for RL issues and only now managed to find some time. A wolf would know more about the game state and might be tempted to meddle with it. Unless it's Town/ Town/ Town, in which case the wolves would not really care. But I doubt this.
I hope, you will manage to catch up and make a more informed decision.

I am really sorry, most likely I would not be able to participate meaningfully. IRL things have become very difficult. Especially in such a power-heavy game I wouldn't be able to track everything to a sufficient standard; I also have no idea how to use my power meaningfully (I've counted on studying it after the game started, but I have no options now). I propose lynching me, though if I survive I will try my best, though it's unlikely to be any good.

Saint-Just

What do you think lynching you would accomplish?
I don't think anybody thinks you are a wolf right now, you had been a wagon for a mix of pressure and limiting risks. So it's not a situation of killing you to prove your point or preventing the wolves of settling up an easy misslynch.
About your power usage, just use your best judgements. I can't give you any more specific suggestions, since I don't know which role you are. And I don't want you to tell me either . It's better to limit the amount of information the wolves have about our capabilities until you either have something important to say. The wolves have more info, so every small piece will mean they get closer to a complete puzzle than town.

Why is Rogan town? I'd like to hear your logic because I missed any big things and Book voted Rogan like two posts beneath this.

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So... Now the top wagons are 3/3/4.

What are tie rules? I really don't want to vote saint now after what they've said. So I might vote Taff... Need to check the OP for vote manipulation powers since that was mentioned.

- - - Updated - - -

Found the vote manipulation power... Interesting... So of that's Taff then voting for them probably wouldn't even save me. If that's not them then Taff is currently up for lynch. So if I die with Taff in the lead, then we lynch Taff tomorrow. Interesting.

You will have to ask Xi if you want to be sure, but my guess is, the RNG said so.
I don't think you should take Books vote as evidence for anything, since Book claimed to have voted randomly before catching up to the thread. A claim which I tend to believe, but don't take this as a gospel. It is easy to fake this claim.
But asking for the logic is a fair move in my mind.

About voting Taffi, if I recall correctly, the power is "reduce count by two" and the rule for ties is random? Not sure about the last thing...
@Xihirli: Can you give us info about the handling of ties?
So why do you, gac, think it would not save you? Unless votes change again, Taff having 2 votes more than you would turn into a tie, so a 50/50 chance instead of a guaranteed outcome. For bonus points, it would out Taffi regardless of the outcome.
From a Town!Gac perspective, this should be a better outcome, right?

Regarding Rogan: wait, did we confirm that Alexis is here to get out with Nightshroud?

Not as far as I know.
Personally, I would be willing to bet that if Alexis is in the game, Nightshroud will be there as well. Otherwise it would be a bastard move, which I don't expect from Xi.
The other way round is not guaranteed. I can see both ways. Alexis could be an advantage for taking NS out without triggering the conversion. But since it's a voluntary move from the wolves side, it's more likely to cost town another member.
I hope they are both not in the game, but that's not really relevant.

I'm a bit ill, so if I become completely incoherent then that's why.

I don't think SJ does that as a wolf unless he's exactly Nightshroud, which is unlikely enough that I feel okay clearing him.

I don't think other players should care more about how they look. And "lampshading suspicious actions makes you look less suspicious" ... kind of true under certain circumstances. But then again I don't think OMGUS as an opening post when there's nothing to go on is that suspicious (yes, I am biased).

That kind of ties into one of my main concerns about Taffimai, which is that she's criticising the way I play without actually explaining why it makes me a wolf.

That being said... there's the Seer read thing. Which I think isn't the kind of route a wolf is likely to go down.

I don't really have any better options, though. I'm not voting SJ, and I don't particularly want to murder gac for weird logic lacking clear wolf motivation. I'm considering Caoimhin but I have a tendency to wolfread their early game regardless of alignment so I'll give them time.

Not doing the 3/3 thing due to feeling awful, but there should be enough content to work with here anyway.

Sorry to hear that. I hope you will get well again soon.

I see your point. I could see some motivations from a wolf for his action, but I don't think they are very likely either. I don't suggest to lock him as town, but a Town lean is well deserved.
For a Town lock, there is too much content, as far as I am concerned. But we should not lynch him today.

Is your concern about Taffi a "I don't like this style" or a "This looks like a wolf"?

Agreed about your content. If you are feeling better, the 3/3 thing might still be useful, but it's not very important.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Regarding Rogan: wait, did we confirm that Alexis is here to get out with Nightshroud?

Regarding me: worth it to note that I haven't said that. I said to judge them based on wether they cohoperate, with no mention of votes that... Would actually be unreliable, I think.
One thing is if someone is decisive to take a wolf down- for example if I swirched from gac to Taffimai, killing the counterwagon. But otherwise it wouldn't be a good way to test them.

And even then it may just have been the pressure that makes a wolf vote another wolf.

It's heavily implied that Nightshroud is possessing Alexis' sister. checking a yugioh wiki all but confirms it, so yeah.

I'm confused about how to test someone for... cooperating then? Lemme get the relevant quote(s)

Well, one way is to indeed use a night power (I don't agree that it's a bad move)- the other is to ask the person in doubt to cohoperate and if they don't it's sus. Of course you need to be in a condition where the power/allegiance can be verified and you need to be trusted by the person that looks Town.

You never said anything about votes, but I don't know how else you'd ask someone to "cooperate" with Town and judge based on that. Maybe in a way Night powers interact? I assumed you meant votes because that's how you can put your money where your mouth is.

To clarify, my issue wasn't with the vote as such but with it being presented as random. While it's certainly possible for a genuinely random vote to happen to be on the lead wagon, it did give me some wolfy vibes. But yeah, it's not exactly a strong argument, especially with new player. I just thought it was worth pointing out.

That's fair. I disagree about the Wolfy vibes but I'm not worried about arguing over that especially when it's part of a Day 1 read.

- - - Updated - - -

I am really sorry, most likely I would not be able to participate meaningfully. IRL things have become very difficult. Especially in such a power-heavy game I wouldn't be able to track everything to a sufficient standard; I also have no idea how to use my power meaningfully (I've counted on studying it after the game started, but I have no options now). I propose lynching me, though if I survive I will try my best, though it's unlikely to be any good.

Saint-Just

Sorry to hear real life has gotten difficult. Obviously I hope you get more free time soon but focus on real life stuff rather than this game.

On that note, @Xihirli and @Saint-Just. If SJ doesn't think they'll have time to play, does it make sense to look for a replacement? It is still early game so there's relatively little to catch up on.

[Rogan]

It's heavily implied that Nightshroud is possessing Alexis' sister. checking a yugioh wiki all but confirms it, so yeah.

I'm confused about how to test someone for... cooperating then? Lemme get the relevant quote(s)



You never said anything about votes, but I don't know how else you'd ask someone to "cooperate" with Town and judge based on that. Maybe in a way Night powers interact? I assumed you meant votes because that's how you can put your money where your mouth is.



That's fair. I disagree about the Wolfy vibes but I'm not worried about arguing over that especially when it's part of a Day 1 read.

- - - Updated - - -



Sorry to hear real life has gotten difficult. Obviously I hope you get more free time soon but focus on real life stuff rather than this game.

On that note, @Xihirli and @Saint-Just. If SJ doesn't think they'll have time to play, does it make sense to look for a replacement? It is still early game so there's relatively little to catch up on.

Ah, I might have missread things.
I interpreted the question to mean "Do we know if she is in the game and can use her power", but read of the answer seems more likely.
And I agree with the conclusion. If Alexis is searching someone else, Xi would have to be extremely misleading, which I can see in general, but not as Narrator.

Power use in general is a big thing under certain circumstances. See UPick2, where one of the last days was mostly about coordinating power usage in order to prevent the wolves from killing anyone trusted and force them to kill someone suspected. So cooperation can be about voting, but in order to really matter, the votes have to be close. And there is still a matter of bussing.

And about SJ:
Oh, yes! Sorry about the stress, I hope your life will get calmer again.
And I agree, if we can find someone willing to join and SJ and Xi are okay with this change as well, it would be a good solution.
Of course, finding someone might be a bit tricky, but perhaps Emmy is interested? She offered this the last two matches.

[Xihirli]

On that note, @Xihirli and @Saint-Just. If SJ doesn't think they'll have time to play, does it make sense to look for a replacement? It is still early game so there's relatively little to catch up on.

I have a replacement lined up, just waiting on SJ’s input.

[Valmark]

I'm confused about how to test someone for... cooperating then? Lemme get the relevant quote(s)



You never said anything about votes, but I don't know how else you'd ask someone to "cooperate" with Town and judge based on that. Maybe in a way Night powers interact? I assumed you meant votes because that's how you can put your money where your mouth is.

Power use in general is a big thing under certain circumstances. See UPick2, where one of the last days was mostly about coordinating power usage in order to prevent the wolves from killing anyone trusted and force them to kill someone suspected. So cooperation can be about voting, but in order to really matter, the votes have to be close. And there is still a matter of bussing.

What Rogan said. It's happened more then once that people cohordinated together power usage and that confirmed/revealed people's allegiances- you could do the same with voting, but it needs to really matter.

[Rogan]

I have a replacement lined up, just waiting on SJ’s input.

Perfekt!
I vote Xihirli for president (of the dueling club)!

[gac3]

Not fully caught up but I do have thoughts on Saint Just. Pretty confident they aren't a wolf. Saint's attitude of "I'll do my best if you don't kill me today" is not the attitude you take in that moment as a wolf. That's what you would say privately in the wolf chat, not publically self voting to get yourself out of the game and mess up your other wolves. So replaced or not, they are likely town.

[gac3]

I'm not exactly happy about a random vote at this time, but Christmas is a valid explanation. I think this post in the middle of the night makes sense as a townie who is stressed for RL issues and only now managed to find some time. A wolf would know more about the game state and might be tempted to meddle with it. Unless it's Town/ Town/ Town, in which case the wolves would not really care. But I doubt this.
I hope, you will manage to catch up and make a more informed decision.



What do you think lynching you would accomplish?
I don't think anybody thinks you are a wolf right now, you had been a wagon for a mix of pressure and limiting risks. So it's not a situation of killing you to prove your point or preventing the wolves of settling up an easy misslynch.
About your power usage, just use your best judgements. I can't give you any more specific suggestions, since I don't know which role you are. And I don't want you to tell me either . It's better to limit the amount of information the wolves have about our capabilities until you either have something important to say. The wolves have more info, so every small piece will mean they get closer to a complete puzzle than town.



You will have to ask Xi if you want to be sure, but my guess is, the RNG said so.
I don't think you should take Books vote as evidence for anything, since Book claimed to have voted randomly before catching up to the thread. A claim which I tend to believe, but don't take this as a gospel. It is easy to fake this claim.
But asking for the logic is a fair move in my mind.

About voting Taffi, if I recall correctly, the power is "reduce count by two" and the rule for ties is random? Not sure about the last thing...
@Xihirli: Can you give us info about the handling of ties?
So why do you, gac, think it would not save you? Unless votes change again, Taff having 2 votes more than you would turn into a tie, so a 50/50 chance instead of a guaranteed outcome. For bonus points, it would out Taffi regardless of the outcome.
From a Town!Gac perspective, this should be a better outcome, right?



Not as far as I know.
Personally, I would be willing to bet that if Alexis is in the game, Nightshroud will be there as well. Otherwise it would be a bastard move, which I don't expect from Xi.
The other way round is not guaranteed. I can see both ways. Alexis could be an advantage for taking NS out without triggering the conversion. But since it's a voluntary move from the wolves side, it's more likely to cost town another member.
I hope they are both not in the game, but that's not really relevant.



Sorry to hear that. I hope you will get well again soon.

I see your point. I could see some motivations from a wolf for his action, but I don't think they are very likely either. I don't suggest to lock him as town, but a Town lean is well deserved.
For a Town lock, there is too much content, as far as I am concerned. But we should not lynch him today.

Is your concern about Taffi a "I don't like this style" or a "This looks like a wolf"?

Agreed about your content. If you are feeling better, the 3/3 thing might still be useful, but it's not very important.

Hmmm... I was working until told otherwise under the assumption of "first person to reach that total dies" because I was thinking that was Xi's usual default but I'm thinking of someone else. So yeah, that makes it feel like the vote could matter.Taff

[Xihirli]

@Xihirli: Can you give us info about the handling of ties?

In Yu-Gi-Oh! Ties in battle result in either nothing or both dying, depending on whether the one being attacked is in defense or attack position.

And that's all the explanation you'll get.

[Rogan]

Hmmm... I was working until told otherwise under the assumption of "first person to reach that total dies" because I was thinking that was Xi's usual default but I'm thinking of someone else. So yeah, that makes it feel like the vote could matter.Taff

I might be wrong. Okay, seems like I am wrong:

In Yu-Gi-Oh! Ties in battle result in either nothing or both dying, depending on whether the one being attacked is in defense or attack position.

And that's all the explanation you'll get.

Your vote still seems to be useful there but it might kill you anyway. In fact I'm really curious about a tie now!

[gac3]

I might be wrong. Okay, seems like I am wrong:



Your vote still seems to be useful there but it might kill you anyway. In fact I'm really curious about a tie now!

I'm also really curious...

[Saint-Just]

I've unvoted myself, for form's sake, and I accept my substitution. Hopefully with more than 24h remaining they will be able to properly integrate even before the end of Phase 1. I wish everyone a good dame.

[Xihirli]

Saint-Just will be leaving us and be replaced with JNinja, who was not originally part of the game due to holiday plans. We may not see much from them immediately.

[bladescape]

I'll personally go after anyone who tries to push JNinja/SJ slot over today.

Also Merry Christmas from the future.

Have fun y'all nerds.

[JNinja]

Hi, friends (and werewolves in our midst)! I haven't played by post before, but I have played in-person basic Mafia and one-night werewolf, and I followed the Love Letter Mafia game a couple months ago. Wow you guys are in-depth with your readings of each others' readings! I was going to just follow this game too but then a spot opened up so I thought I might as well try playing. I have read the whole thread but only passively so I don't have a vote yet and I don't like voting random. Tomorrow (or technically today, depending on time zone) is Christmas, so we'll see when I get time to get a better read. Merry Christmas!!!

[Snowblaze]

Morning all, and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/*insert seasonal greeting of choice here*! I'm feeling better but probably won't do too much wolf-hunting on Christmas Day.

Rogan, I think Taffimai is a wolf. My confidence is low but not completely non-existent, which is better than anything else I have.

Welcome, JNinja!