OOTS headcanons?

[Peelee]

So we should be more having a saying on the lines of "maybe don't live in places where the winds get so strong they can rip your head off, whether you are a tree or a grass"?

GW

That knocks out most of the United States except SoCal and that place is already crowded and expensive.

[Fyraltari]

So we should be more having a saying on the lines of "maybe don't live in places where the winds get so strong they can rip your head off, whether you are a tree or a grass"?

GW

And this is why humanity settled all of the globe and wolves didn't.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

And this is why humanity settled all of the globe and wolves didn't.

I mean, we pretty much did (northern hemisphere, I'll grant you, but still quite global). But you bastards have both guns and sheep, and will happily use the first when the second are present.

GW

[Fyraltari]

I mean, we pretty much did (northern hemisphere, I'll grant you, but still quite global). But you bastards have both guns and sheep, and will happily use the first when the second are present.

GW

Okay, but we settled all of the world (but for the Antarctic) when our best technology was wood and bone and stone and skin.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Okay, but we settled all of the world (but for the Antarctic) when our best technology was wood and bone and stone and skin.

Yes, and we were already there when y'all did so?

Seriously, other than, IIRC, South America, wolves have been present pretty much everywhere since forever ago. And fair enough humans have been killing wolves with whatever was at hand about as long, whether or not they had sheep or guns. As usual, humans really only needed an excuse to decimate local competition.

GW

[Dasick]

That doesn't rhyme either!

The strong wind rages
The humble bamboo bows down
Wind dies; bamboo stays

[Metastachydium]

I have to say, though, that my failures at photosynthesising have rendered either approach unworkable.

Keep trying, I say! It's doing wonders for me.

That knocks out most of the United States except SoCal and that place is already crowded and expensive.

Well, to paraphrase a certain Frenchman: and this is why humanity settled all the globe (and didn't start withe the United States).

The strong wind rages
The humble bamboo bows down
Wind dies; bamboo stays

Nice one!

[Peelee]

Well, to paraphrase a certain Frenchman: and this is why humanity settled all the globe (and didn't start withe the United States).

Granted, I wasn't there at the time, but I do seem to recall hearing about people already being here by the time the Frenchmen came.

[Dasick]

Granted, I wasn't there at the time, but I do seem to recall hearing about people already being here by the time the Frenchmen came.

Given the approximate population density of the continent at the time the frenchmen came, I'm pretty sure they started with parts that didn't have any people there.

It's actually mind boggling how quickly explorers made contact

[Peelee]

Given the approximate population density of the continent at the time the frenchmen came, I'm pretty sure they started with parts that didn't have any people there.

It's actually mind boggling how quickly explorers made contact

Population was roughly on par with Europe, just over a larger landmass. And even then, it's easy to find people. Go to the rivers. That's where people already there will live, and that's where people coming in will want to live. Easy peasy.

[Metastachydium]

Granted, I wasn't there at the time, but I do seem to recall hearing about people already being here by the time the Frenchmen came.

1. The Frenchman in question is, of course, Fyraltari; and
2. I'm talking about, like, 11000+ years ago when humans started trickling through the Beringian land bridge to the Americas, at which point pretty much everywhere else (barring certain islands) had stable human presence.

[Fyraltari]

Granted, I wasn't there at the time, but I do seem to recall hearing about people already being here by the time the Frenchmen came.

Yes? I don't see your point.

[Peelee]

1. The Frenchman in question is, of course, Fyraltari; and
2. I'm talking about, like, 11000+ years ago when humans started trickling through the Beringian land bridge to the Americas, at which point pretty much everywhere else (barring certain islands) had stable human presence.

1.) I'm aware, but I think I'm funny and that was too good a coincidence to pass up.
2.) Well, yeah, we started where we started as a species, that's kind of mandatory. And it wasn't hurricanes and tornadoes that stopped us from getting to the Americas earlier but the large water masses. Like, really large. At least ten swimming pools long.

Yes? I don't see your point.

See 1 above.

[Metastachydium]

it wasn't hurricanes and tornadoes that stopped us from getting to the Americas earlier but the large water masses

Clearly, but I also think I'm funny.

[Peelee]

Clearly, but I also think I'm funny.

Ah, a battle of wits, is it? Little do you know I'm only half prepared!

[brian 333]

The Gulf Of Mexico's Northern coastline is a virtual paradise. Except for the mosquitoes. And the torrential rains. And lightning. And tornadoes. And hurricanes. And floods. And mosquitoes. And the heat. With humidity. So much humidity. And the mud. And sawgrass. And sawgrass gnats. And mosquitoes.

Except for the venomous snakes, invasive red ants, and world-champion roaches, it's a really nice place. With mosquitoes.

Why would anyone want to live in SoCal rather than here?

[Metastachydium]

Ah, a battle of wits, is it?

Why, no, Sir! I'd never start a land war in Asia.

[Dasick]

Well, yeah, we started where we started as a species, that's kind of mandatory. And it wasn't hurricanes and tornadoes that stopped us from getting to the Americas earlier but the large water masses. Like, really large. At least ten swimming pools long.

One of the difficulties in crossing large masses of water is that they get storms and hurricanes in there. If you have a half descent understanding of astronomy and a big enough boat for supplies its kind of a cakewalk

[Ruck]

So we should be more having a saying on the lines of "maybe don't live in places where the winds get so strong they can rip your head off, whether you are a tree or a grass"?

GW

I feel like we're reaching "Snow goons are bad news" levels of inapplicability.

[brian 333]

One of the difficulties in crossing large masses of water is that they get storms and hurricanes in there. If you have a half descent understanding of astronomy and a big enough boat for supplies its kind of a cakewalk

Or, since you live on the margin between water and ice, eating seals in winter and fish in summer, just slowly migrate around the world. Land bridges are overrated and so unnecessary when mile-thick ice sheets cover everything North of latitude 45.

[Peelee]

One of the difficulties in crossing large masses of water is that they get storms and hurricanes in there. If you have a half descent understanding of astronomy and a big enough boat for supplies its kind of a cakewalk

Not knowing how far the next landmass is, and this not knowing how many supplies you need, is a pretty big limitation. As is just simply building a big enough ship. That's like saying, "getting to Mars isn't hard, you just need enough fuel and air in the rocket and a hundred hours logged in Kerbal Space Program". Like yeah, on a really basic level that's correct but you're skipping just a ton of logistics that make it way harder.

[Dasick]

Not knowing how far the next landmass is, and this not knowing how many supplies you need, is a pretty big limitation. As is just simply building a big enough ship. That's like saying, "getting to Mars isn't hard, you just need enough fuel and air in the rocket and a hundred hours logged in Kerbal Space Program". Like yeah, on a really basic level that's correct but you're skipping just a ton of logistics that make it way harder.

Hey look, the only reason we don't have a mars colony is cause people in charge hate fun

And i guess because the resources that would go towards it are better spent elsewhere I guess

[brian 333]

Hey look, the only reason we don't have a mars colony is cause people in charge hate fun

And i guess because the resources that would go towards it are better spent elsewhere I guess

Fun fact: if we learn how to colonize Mars, we learn how to make deserts bloom. Net benefit for the Earth for what, in retrospect, would be a very small investment.

[Fyraltari]

Hey look, the only reason we don't have a mars colony is cause people in charge hate fun

And i guess because the resources that would go towards it are better spent elsewhere I guess

Spoiler: Relevant

Show

[Dasick]

well, the thing is, we either reach for the stars, or we run out of resources and room, suffer a couple Malthusian catastrophe world wars and famines, and go back to stone or middle age.

given how the space race interest quickly tapered off, I've been learning to flint knap, its actually very relaxing and fun !

[Fyraltari]

well, the thing is, we either reach for the stars, or we run out of resources and room, suffer a couple Malthusian catastrophe world wars and famines, and go back to stone or middle age.

given how the space race interest quickly tapered off, I've been learning to flint knap, its actually very relaxing and fun !

Malthusianism is bunk. Birth rates are slowing down the world over even in places where they are still superior to replacement level, the population is going to continue growing for a while and then hit a plateau. We have enough resources for everyone to live confortably, there is no reason for continual infinite growth.

I agree that space exploration is good thing we should keep doing, if only for scientific research puproses but the whole notion of colonizing Mars is terrible and for two reasons:

A) We have an ecological emergency on our hands. Fantasizing about a planet B is a dangerous distraction, one that serves only to flatter the ego of of a few billionaires who look at the entire cyberpunk genre as an instruction manual. We ought to clean house before expanding.

B) Mars specifically, and more generally every (exo)planet we're aware of so far just plain aren't livable for humans. The antarctic is vastly more hospitable than Mars and we don't have any permanent population there because no-one wants to live in such a hostile environment. The technology required to make Mars tolerable exists in theory but it would be, by far, the greatest endeavor ever undertaken by mankind and would take centuries to accomplish. The colonization of the solar system is going to be mainly robots and that's fine, because everything in it but Earth makes every description of hell anyone ever came up with look like a pleasant beachside retreat by comparison.

Our species cannot move to the stars as we are currently. We have mountain of problems to address first.

[Peelee]

The antarctic is vastly more hospitable than Mars and we don't have any permanent population there because no-one wants to live in such a hostile environment.

People who go to the antarctic to live (read: scientists going to do science for months on end) also have to undergo rigorous psychological evaluations and testing because of how much it sucks living there. And, as you said, it's better in every conceivable way to Mars.

All that being said, I'm not opposed to extra-planetary settlements. But it's beyond our current capabilities, and even when it gets more feasible, the Moon is a much better starting point.

[Dasick]

Malthusianism is bunk.

Yes and no.

Malthusian predictions never came true due to advances in technology, but there's no particular reason to believe these advances will continue as we are running out of the fossil fuels with drove most of the advances in the first place.

However, war and crime is basically how malthusianism manifests itself since forever - he was wrong to expect a massive event. Also epidemics. All three are on a massive rise, and antibiotic resistant bacteria didn't even kick in yet. The long peace the 1st world has enjoyed is going away and we're going back to business as usual.

Birth rates are slowing down the world over even in places where they are still superior to replacement level, the population is going to continue growing for a while and then hit a plateau. We have enough resources for everyone to live confortably, there is no reason for continual infinite growth.

If everyone could learn to live in a wine barrel, sure. Everyone wants a cheap iphone and doesn't care about child slaves digging for cobalt though. Why would people be content with what they have when we have a perfectly serviceable population of fit young people we can send off to get us some more stuff.

Birth rates slowing down is a local minima. Demographically speaking this is a disaster because many developed countries are starting to see 2:1 retired to working adult proportion, and the technological advancements aren't keeping up. So we're either going to pillow the elderly or go through some more of that delicious world wide economic downturn stuff. Whee.

We have an ecological emergency on our hands. Fantasizing about a planet B is a dangerous distraction, one that serves only to flatter the ego of of a few billionaires who look at the entire cyberpunk genre as an instruction manual. We ought to clean house before expanding.

The advances needed to colonize Mars will come really handy in cleaning up house, whether it's dealing with hostile environments (Brian already mentioned making deserts bloom), creating energy and resource efficient settlements, or terraforming techniques.

[Peelee]

If everyone could learn to live in a wine barrel, sure.

Benefits include not having to praise the king.

[Dasick]

Benefits include not having to praise the king.

*finger explosion waving fistbump*

I didnt even vote for the guy