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2024-02-12, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Wizards of the Coast has announced the release dates for the updated core rulebooks:
Book Player's Handbook Dungeon Master's Guide Monster Manual Release Date September 17, 2024 November 12, 2024 February 18, 2025
The PHB coming out in September is much later than I expected, I was convinced it was going to be ready by at least by GenCon, if not earlier. I suppose the leaked release date in May was way too early, given the fact that we are still in the middle of play testing. They are probably banking more on the holidays than high school and college students being free during the summer. I would have assumed the Monster Manual would come before the DMG. My guess is that they are very proud of their new DMG (which Chris Perkins has alluded to in several interviews) and want to get it out the door ASAP, which means it will be probably be a great product (unlike the current, much maligned, DMG). I do find it fascinating that they will not have a Gift Bundle ready to go for Christmas. That seems like a big misstep on their part (IMO).
I just realized the PHB and DMG are two months apart but the Monster Manual is coming a full three months after the DMG, which means it will take five full months for all three books to come out. That is a really stretched out time line. I wonder if abandoning Penguin plays a part in the length between the three releases?Last edited by DragonEyeSeeker; 2024-02-12 at 01:48 PM.
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2024-02-12, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Hrm. I wonder if MM and DMG stuff is going to be on D&D Beyond before the paper release. Because that would be a great way of "encouraging" people to use Beyond over physical media...
(Insert tinfoil hat as needed)Last edited by Telwar; 2024-02-12 at 02:29 PM.
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2024-02-12, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
The revisions were first announced in 2022, under the umbrella brand of One D&D. That name’s long since been dropped, with the new versions not having their own specific name. They’re still considered the fifth edition rules, with Wizards opting not to call it Sixth Edition, 5.5, or anything else that delineates it as its own version.
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2024-02-12, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
This will be my first time being around for a launch like this and the release scheduling is just confusing. They're all core books, just release them at the same time. It's not even like they're competing with each other like other products might.
As for the dates themselves, this gives them what, maybe 5 months at most to finish the PHB? I'd have to assume even less than that given the layout, editing, printing, and shipping needed.For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge
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2024-02-12, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
It's February 12th as I type this, and the MM isn't due until Feb 18th 2025???? What the actual ****.
I can understand a staggered release, but 5 months between the 3 Core books is absurd. I honestly fully expected the PHB to be September, so I'm internally cheering at myself for calling that. But the DMG/MM? Wow. Crazy.Insert Clever Signature Here
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2024-02-12, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Until then. We get to make due with a 1-13 adventure and an attempt at a 10-20 adventure multiverse-style.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1660...-book-releases
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2024-02-12, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Woohoo, dates!
They confirmed that the May date was an error.
The MM will likely involve a much heavier art lift than the DMG. Besides, for modern monster design we have MotM and others.
They didn't do that in 2014 either though, the three books were staggered back then too. If it ain't broke...
Not sure - but it's a heck of a lot better than them trying to force it out in May. 4 extra months in the oven can only be a good thing.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-02-12, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Staggered releases are generally favored for D&D book releases because retailers do not like "going all in" on three really expensive books at the exact same time. Staggering the releases eases the financial burden on retailers (especially FLGSs). Having said that, their print schedule for the the core three books has been all over the place with every edition.
3.0
- PHB - August
- DMG - September
- MM - October
3.5
- DMG - June
- PHB - July
- MM - July
4E
- PHB - June
- DMG - June
- MM - June
5E (2014)
- PHB - August
- MM - September
- DMG - December
5E (2024)
- PHB - September
- DMG - November
- MM - February
I am actually curious what the art count is between the three core rulebooks. The 5E MM had 150-ish monsters, then extra art for NPCs and Animals. It is a hefty amount for sure. Although, WotC has known they will be producing new core rulebooks for a long time now and most of the monsters are very generic/iconic, so they would likely have a very long lede time on the creation of this massive amount of art.
Monsters also require more fine tuning & play testing, at least if you want to get them right. For the numbers to be correct, you also have to have a very good idea of how powerful the players will wind up being.
Still, I do not think either of those necessitates such a long staggering release cycle. It is likely something as boring as a logistics issue that is the major culprit.
The only edition that did not have staggered releases was 4E, which was a system that very much necessitated the purchase of all three books at once.Last edited by DragonEyeSeeker; 2024-02-12 at 05:29 PM.
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2024-02-12, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2021
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
I wonder if the marketing reason for staggered releases is that they know there's a difference between spending, what is it now, 45 bucks? Been a while since I looked at the price tags--anyway, there's a difference from the consumer perspective between buying three expensive books simultaneously and buying one expensive book, then another expensive book a couple months later, then the third a couple months after that.
PHB kinda has to be first because you can't run a game without it; you can get away without the DMG pretty easily as far as I can tell, and you can always brew your own monsters, but it's less realistic to try to get away with not having the PHB. As for the DMG being before the MM, Psyren's theory about the art for the MM taking a while is as good as any, I guess? Either that or they expect less demand for it compared to the DMG, given the decently frequent release of new monsters.
This is also my first time being around for an edition swap (well, they're not calling it an edition swap, but it pretty much is); my first game would've been right around when Tasha's came out. So I dunno if the length of the delay is normal or not--it definitely sounds like a long time to me, though. I'm reminded of the old Shigeru Miyamoto quote where "a delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever," but I don't have the sense of scale to know if that might be a reason for the schedule. [EDIT: didn't see the post above, that helps a lot, thanks]Last edited by Dalinar; 2024-02-12 at 05:29 PM.
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2024-02-12, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
That makes sense. A couple other obvious reasons:
1. If they won't have the last book done until February, they'd probably rather hit the holiday season AND the anniversary for the PHB and DMG rather than wait until February for the bundle.
2. Staggering releases lets you spread out media coverage and marketing. Like, if they released all 3 at once, you'd see a bunch of articles about the "new edition" probably focusing mostly on the PHB... stagger them and you get an extra month to talk about the DMG and then the MM.
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2024-02-12, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
The reason I think it's weird/stupid from a player point of view is because I do think it's broken. I wasn't playing at the very launch of 5e, but I have consumed a lot of content from that period and it was cringey how much people got wrong because it was before the DMG was released.
And 5e being successful =/= staggered releases being the best thing to do.
[/QUOTE] Not sure - but it's a heck of a lot better than them trying to force it out in May. 4 extra months in the oven can only be a good thing.[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to view that as a positive just because they made a massive blunder in giving a May date. They didn't push it back to give 4 more months, they claim it was never May to begin with.
At the end of the day it's still a concerningly close release date given the last UA and that they're working on three books simultaneously to some degree. 2014 books were riddled with editing errors, I wouldn't be surprised if these were too, and for a massive company and expensive books, it really shouldn't be.
Easing the burden on stores makes some degree of sense, however, I'm not sure how relevant that is anymore. Amazon, big box stores, and Beyond mostly invalidate that as an issue.
Heck, they've already shown willingness to have content launch at different times for game stores when they let it hit Beyond a month early or whatever that was.
1. That doesn't explain staggering the PHB and DMG though.
2. This might be true to a degree, but not really for any dedicated sources. From a content creation standpoint you'd want to cover each individually to ensure you're getting the search results and to maximise your return on the books.
Given that D&D is both the biggest fish in it's pond and the most popular it's ever been, people will talk about the books regardless. Dragging out the discussion of the core books like that doesn't really seem like it would move the needle much, especially since the relative markets for the books shrinks after the PHB releases.For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge
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2024-02-12, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
They claim that it is backwards compatible, so you can use the old MM until the new one comes out.
I can understand a staggered release, but 5 months between the 3 Core books is absurd. I honestly fully expected the PHB to be September, so I'm internally cheering at myself for calling that. But the DMG/MM? Wow. Crazy.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2024-02-12, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Even if you're right, a more demanding art pipeline could still be related to logistics.
I agree that historical context is useful here.
It doesn't make it a bad thing to do either. But if 2014's success isn't enough of a reason, DES and ZRN gave more.
That still means they have a lot more time than they would have with a May release. Whether it was a genuine typo or a rapid adjustment isn't relevant.
If you really see this as a likely problem, wouldn't releasing them all simultaneously make it worse?
However little you feel it will move the needle, it will still be a longer news cycle than a simultaneous release would, even if just due to their own press junkets.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2024-02-12, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
"Hey, DM I just got the new players handbook, I have so many cool new options I can't wait to use, when can we play?"
"5 months from now I will be able to start planning out a campaign with a full understanding of how my end of things will work."
Plenty of time for theorycrafting youtubers to build the most broken characters you can imagine that the designers didn't catch.Last edited by Beelzebub1111; 2024-02-13 at 09:39 AM.
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2024-02-13, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
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2024-02-13, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-02-13, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
It is broke, however. Why would a consumer elect to purchase the revised Monster Manual, if they have been playing One D&D for 5 months, without one.
If the new Dungeon Master's Guide is being reworked to have a better layout, and clearer DM advice, (Has WotC even announced their design goals for the revised DMG and MM, beyond more profit?), then ideally the revised DMG should be released at the same time as the PHB.
A one month wait, between the revised PHB and DMG is not horrible....but 5 months for the Monster Manual is a bit much, unless WotC is making the Revised Monster Manual a compendium and includes revised statblocks from other books, and a lot of well designed new creatures.Last edited by Blatant Beast; 2024-02-13 at 10:48 AM.
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2024-02-13, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Young whippersnappers don't know they are born. Took nearly a year for the 1e DMG to come out after the PHB
Fortunately as this new set of books look to be closely compatible with the current 5e set I don't think the lack of a DMG will stop us playing with the new PHB stuff and I'm really confident that the lack of a MM update will not matter much. We know from MoTM what the changes are going to look like and they are not really dramatically game-changing.
I'd rather they get the DMG right. I have always felt that the DMG was the weak link in the 5e lineup.
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2024-02-13, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
The same reason they'd buy any book - it contains information and artwork they're willing to pay for. That's what WotC is betting on, anyway.
In addition, 10 years ago Basic got released before the PHB. If they do that again, we'll have everything we need to play OneD&D even before the PHB drops. Even if they don't, it's highly likely that the new Basic will drop well before the MM or even the DMG.
Chris Perkins did actually did provide a number of design goals for the new DMG; see my post in the "noncombat skills" thread for the relevant quotes.
As far as why they shouldn't be released simultaneously, posters like ZRN and DragonEyeSeeker provided salient points that I haven't seen anyone refute yet.
Why would they when that's false? You can play the game just fine with nothing but Basic, even; keep in mind that Basic contains literally hundreds of monsters at all CRs.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-02-13, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
What would they gain from releasing all books at once?
They would have to pay to store everything while waiting all the books to be printed, which to my understanding take several months.
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2024-02-13, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Here's the thing. One of the issues with the current monster manual is that the monsters are mechanically boring and encounters are difficult to balance. If you introduce all these player options before you can even see how they are fixing the monsters using the old rules won't that create a disconnect once its released if things are being fixed?
if things aren't being fixed in the new edition then why should I buy it at all?
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2024-02-13, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
No they are not.
and encounters are difficult to balance.
if things aren't being fixed in the new edition then why should I buy it at all?Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2024-02-13, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Release Dates for the 2024 Updated Core Rulebooks
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
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