The Depression Thread

[Serpentine]

Bor, I can't say it was pleasant being laughed at, but I wasn't scarred by it or anything, so don't worry about it. I don't know, but I think you need a project, a goal that you can work to and fill your days with, maybe even just a hobby. Even something as simple as "draw satisfactory avatars" or "finish this puzzle" or "memorise the name of every major river in the world" (that one was a high school assignment >.<). If you're feeling really ambitious, I'm having some luck teaching my cat to "sit"

Not my depression, but my Canadian gentleman friend's. In the course of a week, things just went from bad to ridiculous for him. The first day, he was complaining about girl problems - crush and ex. The next day, his uncle died of an unknown illness. The next day, his brother went into hospital for brain surgery after he had a motorbike accident. He was then put into an artificial coma, but it seems that when they were considering taking him off those drugs, he had a rather abrupt downward turn. To the point where he's now on life support
*sigh* I wish I could be there to make him tasty things and check that he really is okay...

[TigerHunter]

I finally realized there is no one who can make your life better for you. I dumped the meds and the doctors who were pushing them. Got a job, my own apartment (later a house), my own car, and went looking for a significant other. 7 years later I am happily married with a baby. And I did it by just getting up off my butt and doing it for myself instead of expecting someone to come along and do the hard work for me. And it is the hardest work you'll ever do. But hey, it's your LIFE! What is worth that kind of effort if that isn't? Probably the hardest thing was accepting that failure and rejection are possibilities and that no one has a right to exempt themselves from them. Life just doesn't make that an option. But, you know, you could hide from all of the heartache of life every day, just hide under your bed and let it all pass you by, and you'd still be miserable and alone. Pain can find you anywhere. Happiness you have to go out and find for yourself.

I think I'm going to save that somewhere, maybe print it out and pin it to the wall.

Anyways. I posted in a previous incarnation of this thread, then things were pretty good for a while.
They're still good, actually, but the local DA is determined to ruin that. I pushed my mother out of the way when she tried to stop me from leaving the house a few months ago, and now I have to go stand trial for assault.
I'm terrified. Everyone's told me that it'll be fine and the judge will drop the case, but I just can't get over the fact that I'm going on trial. I'm cycling through misanthropy, wanting to die, and denial. I can't go to sleep, because if I do, it'll be tomorrow.
I've spoken with three friends about it tonight, one of whom has gone through all the same things before... and they've all told me to get some rest, and that it'll all be over soon.
I'm a complete wreck over this. I just want to pack my bag and go to school tomorrow, like a normal kid. The universe seems to be actively trying to make a misanthrope out of me.

[Rejakor]

This is my first post in the depression thread(new or old). Funny thing, because i've been suffering from depression for years, and this is the first time, just recently, I could say i'm actually feeling happy. The secret, i've found, is identifying things that f*** you up, and removing them. It's really that simple. Well, alright, not really. But it's fairly simple. Focus on the now, don't worry about things outside of your control, try and make things inside your control as simple as possible, and have great friends.

That's my advice, from one depressee to another(s).

[DarkLightDragon]

The secret, i've found, is identifying things that f*** you up, and removing them.

I'm sure removing people is just a bit illegal

Before anyone starts worrying, I'm not that extreme. I was just having a joke.

[Rex Idiotarum]

No, I get what he was saying. I have been depressed before, a two week slump where I was on the verge of tears and in a cloud where all I could do is write horrible poetry about how cold and dark the world is.

Nothing I did was right, and really, the people I thought were friends really hated me. That happens a lot.

Two things happened; I got told by some random bimbo that nobody likes me and everyone hates me. (I remained calm, and told her to @#$% herself, and soon she was removed from the place yelling.) And at a table of people I thought were cool, that I thought were friends, everyone took her side. Cause she's the mess. My life's all peaches and cream.

The Second thing was I got fired from my job. Just couldn't take my ass@#$% manager anymore and finally told him off. He'd hold me up to an hour and a half past my leave time doing busywork before he would count out my register. I'm a teenager who's already on the edge, and he wants to take all my time away.

Well, those two dramatic events got me out of my depression. As it turns out, my friend were really mean to me when I was sitting at the table, I didn't realize it, and in exile, I found nicer friends to sit with, and without a job I had control over my life again.

Cause that's what caused my depression, having no control. Without my car, me parents had to drive me, and on that horrible night, I realized that wasn't reliable. (At this point, and I guess then, I could care less about my family. I guess if it happens again where I'm stranded, and they tell me they won't come like that, I'll just walk to a friends house or something. Maybe I'll begin an epic Roadtrip.) School's worse, you do everything by bell. Hell, you here the bell you have the urge to get up. They program you, and give you no freedom, from the point that you enter the bus, to the point you get off the bus, they have total control over you. Work's even worse, and that Cash Register thing proved how much they could control me; I won't work at a place where they make me wait to count out my register again. Outside of that, I have nothing, but this place.

And I don't have much say here, either. *points to avatar*

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay...yesterday's unfortunate debacle introduced a kind of thinking that has never worked for me. If the illness is genuine, "snap out of it" is never, EVER going to work. If it did, I would have done that long ago with my diabetes.

My intent is not to slap anyone down. There are those who suffer a mental break and and can find it within themselves to get up and get on with life. The reality is that I envy such people. Then there are those of us who have a genuine illness that cannot be flipped on and off like a lightswitch.

It's so hard to make someone understand what depression does to me. I become motivated to do absolutely nothing. I hide in my apartment, avoiding human contact as best as possible, and plot my demise. I have written countless suicide notes when I'm at my worst, then go back and read them when I'm better, and they seem like the ravings of an enraged madman. "I will kill myself, and you will suffer because..." Uh huh. In reality, people will be hurt, and then move on with their lives.

My post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is another one that's hard to get across. My father can't understand how I've become so afraid of people. No joke, people...I require medication to go and see my doctor. I once went without them and had a blood pressure of 164 over 92. I take it an hour or two before I go, and I'm a textbook 120 over 80, if not a slightly more impressive 110 over 70. This medication is an anti-anxiety pill, not for high blood pressure.

These things seem pretty bad, right? Now imagine those who are worse off than I am. Imagine someone who surrenders to the fight, and doesn't make an effort to help themselves at all, let alone others. Imagine the poor soul whose voices shout so loudly that she silences them by leaping into oncoming traffic. Or the athlete so obsessed on making a weight-class that his belemia puts him into a coma. Or the poor depressed person who self-medicates themselves to an overdose.

The sentiment beind "snap out of it" isn't necessarily a bad one. Unfortunately, it's simply not an option for some. It's why we come to this thread. We connect with others in similar circumstances, listen when needed, make helpful suggestions when we can, and often dish out much-needed hugs.

[smellie_hippie]

Okay...yesterday's unfortunate debacle introduced a kind of thinking that has never worked for me. If the illness is genuine, "snap out of it" is never, EVER going to work. If it did, I would have done that long ago with my diabetes.

Not to contradict you my friend, but let me add some other thoughts for those reeling from the shock of it. Snap Out Of It has merit, with conditions...

1. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it has to recognize that they have No Idea what you are actually going through. If your feelings of being smothered/closed off/rejected/hurt/helpless/hopeless are not validated, then someone telling you to snap out of it is just gonna make you snap.

2. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it must also recognize that it is very easy for them to say it, but it's entirely different for you to do it. Doesn't really take rocket science to figure this out, but it's easy to forget that some people are not (maybe never) in a position to just "drop it and move on".

3. Whoever is actually feeling horribly depressed needs to remember that most people are not therapists, but rather "givers of advice". They have no training in clinical assessment, professional empathy, and recognizing the malliability of human emotions. Please remember that when your friends advice to "find someone new" or "just ignore it" drives you even insaner, they are genuinely trying to help...

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Not to contradict you my friend, but let me add some other thoughts for those reeling from the shock of it. Snap Out Of It has merit, with conditions...

1. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it has to recognize that they have No Idea what you are actually going through. If your feelings of being smothered/closed off/rejected/hurt/helpless/hopeless are not validated, then someone telling you to snap out of it is just gonna make you snap.

2. Whoever is telling you to snap out of it must also recognize that it is very easy for them to say it, but it's entirely different for you to do it. Doesn't really take rocket science to figure this out, but it's easy to forget that some people are not (maybe never) in a position to just "drop it and move on".

3. Whoever is actually feeling horribly depressed needs to remember that most people are not therapists, but rather "givers of advice". They have no training in clinical assessment, professional empathy, and recognizing the malliability of human emotions. Please remember that when your friends advice to "find someone new" or "just ignore it" drives you even insaner, they are genuinely trying to help...

Heh! Y'know, S-Hip...If you read my post carefully, I start by saying it can never work, and go on to say it might work.

(Bor's clarity of thought is brought to you by Darvacet, "Pain meds for the broken toe in you.")

I also made an effort to defend the sentiment. G-d knows, I wish I really could just "snap out of it." I see inspirational stories all the time, and I can't help but wonder, "How on Earth did they manage to find the courage to go on?"

Just a few days ago, I caught some show on TV about finding the next great band, or something. A three-man band called "Big Toe" came on stage, and while they were mediocre, they still managed to rock. The bass player was amazing! And not because he could pound out an awesome tune...it was because he had NO FREAKIN' ARMS!!! Born without upper limbs, he learned to do everything, and then some, with his feet. With his amazing attitude, I found myself wishing I was him, if only to have a better perspective than my own.

During the audition phase of the show "So You Think You Can Dance," there were several people with varying handicaps who auditioned. One man lost both legs; he impressed the judges, but never made it past the first part. One young woman lost her arm, and the judges found it hard to believe. And then there was this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGvIv...elated&search=

It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

*sigh*

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days.

[Ego Slayer]

Just a few days ago, I caught some show on TV about finding the next great band, or something. A three-man band called "Big Toe" came on stage, and while they were mediocre, they still managed to rock. The bass player was amazing! And not because he could pound out an awesome tune...it was because he had NO FREAKIN' ARMS!!! Born without upper limbs, he learned to do everything, and then some, with his feet. With his amazing attitude, I found myself wishing I was him, if only to have a better perspective than my own.

I saw that also. Quick reminder of how many people with various disabilities (mental and physical) get over the same hurdles I'm terrified of, and seem so optimistic. Hell, the people without disabilities who seem to just skip through life... makes one feel slightly pathetic for having a hard time getting through the day when there are so many others out there who not only get though it, but seem to so easily accomplish things.

[13_CBS]

It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

*sigh*

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days.

You can dare to complain because you are not them. Some people simply don't mind their troubles as much, others mind them more.

Who knows? Another person with all of your troubles might have cracked long ago and is now six feet under. I probably would have.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Just a few days ago, I caught some show on TV about finding the next great band, or something. A three-man band called "Big Toe" came on stage, and while they were mediocre, they still managed to rock. The bass player was amazing! And not because he could pound out an awesome tune...it was because he had NO FREAKIN' ARMS!!! Born without upper limbs, he learned to do everything, and then some, with his feet. With his amazing attitude, I found myself wishing I was him, if only to have a better perspective than my own.
<snippage>
It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days.

Bor, veryone has their own disabilities. I know because my brother is moderate autistic, my mum has severe thyroid prolems; I could go on.
The thing is you may have a weak body, medically speaking; but the body is a shell. You GET OVER your own problems to help others; you Bor, are not weak, and you help people every day. People you have nver seen and probably never will. To you they're just friends or just people who need help.
Bor. You're a super-hero. Where do you go if you need some help with problems? Bor.
Who will ignore his own heavy personal problems to help the needy? Bor.
You save people over and over. Superman does live. True, he's not a caped crusader but you earnestly help people because you feel for them You have wuite likely been through more than any ten forumites and you will still help people. If they ever run Angelitp you'll win hands down.

And now onto less inspiring stuff: At this point in time my social, academic and creative worlds are crashing down about my ears. I'm on the verge of giving up writing, my Rainbows (and I love all those girls) and everything important to me. This has happened occaisionally but never this strong or continous. I actually have to fight to get out of bed and take an interet in everything now.
I feel like my family has reached that point where I'm just baggage and can be disposed of easily, and I'm beginning to wonder if they're right. I haven't got a job, I can't help out around the house, my parents load me with gulit because I go to colege and (in my reasoning) have zero time to do chores or help out like I used to.
I'm feeling like they're right. Not only that; but due to some indefinable quality, all my friends confide EVERY detail about their problems with their family and love life and friends. This I can handle, but I am now my mum and dad's confidante without them knowing I'm also the other ones as wel. So I now know every little probelm in our family and up and coming ones involving money, and pretty much anything.
Am I of any use to anyone? is all I ever think. Even though I know I am. It's gotten so bad I can't think myself out of these depths any more.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Am I of any use to anyone?

Bor, veryone has their own disabilities. I know because my brother is moderate autistic, my mum has severe thyroid prolems; I could go on.
The thing is you may have a weak body, medically speaking; but the body is a shell. You GET OVER your own problems to help others; you Bor, are not weak, and you help people every day. People you have nver seen and probably never will. To you they're just friends or just people who need help.
Bor. You're a super-hero. Where do you go if you need some help with problems? Bor.
Who will ignore his own heavy personal problems to help the needy? Bor.
You save people over and over. Superman does live. True, he's not a caped crusader but you earnestly help people because you feel for them You have wuite likely been through more than any ten forumites and you will still help people. If they ever run Angelitp you'll win hands down.

*snip*

Rearranged some of that for ya to answer your own question.

CKG, from what I can tell, you are young and in the midst of a particularly chaotic part of life. There is an aspect of employment that does not apply to schooling. When you have a job, you leave your work at the door when you exit and pick it up again the next day. School is an all-day affair that you must also bring home to continue the work. Then you try to juggle your regular responsibilities, social life, and all other aspects of existence. It can easily become too much.

The only person who knows you well enough is yourself. Set your limits, then politely ask everyone in your life to conform so that you don't explode.

Being the nice, helpful guy that I try to be, my neighbors know they can come to me if they need an ear. Physical tasks are hard for me, although I have willingly made market runs for those who cannot move at all. But to all who know me, they have received these words: "There is one rule I must ask you to adibe by, and that's that if my blinds are closed, I'm either asleep or simply want my privacy. If it's an emergency, you can knock. Otherwise, when the blinds are closed, I ask that you come around another time."

This is merely an example. Different circumstances dictate different boundaries and different tactics to set your limits. My very first visit to my father in FL began with me scanning the bookshelves in the guest room. I came out shortly, holding a particular volume and saying, "I want to thank you for making this stay particularly awkward from the start." (The book was entitled, Sex After 50. )

Not sure I'm getting this idea across properly, as my foot hurts quite a bit, and those damnable meds are fogging my head.

Politely but firmly, let people know what your limits are. Then, as you discover if you can expand those limits, let others know you are readily available. Right now, you're trying to focus on everything, which results on you focusing on nothing. Only you can organize your life.

Meanwhile, thanks for the ego boost. As soon as I find my ego, I'll be sure to let it know what you said.

[TigerHunter]

Update: it's over, and I'm in the clear.
Yay.

[SurlySeraph]

It makes me wonder...Am I weak? Are my handicaps real? How do I dare complain when there are others who have overcome what seems to be more than what I have against me?

*sigh*

I'm gonna go beat myself up some more. Seems to be what I do best these days.

Bor, that's the kind of thinking that'll get you into trouble. Yes, there are people whose problems are worse than yours. That doesn't mean your problems aren't bad. Besides, different people can cope with their problems to different extents. I'm a mediocre wrestler because I have trouble putting in the effort and maintaining my will to keep fighting. Every Olympic wrestler started out just as weak as I am, they just devoted themself to improving enough to become perfect at wrestling instead of spending some time on wrestling and more time on getting good grades. You spend a huge amount of your time being kind to other people and giving them advice. That's what you've put the most effort into, that's what you're best at. Helping everyone around you is a hell of a lot harder than learning to dance without legs; you have to try all the time, it's an ongoing process, it doesn't just click all of a sudden. But the fact that you help people instead of lying around complaining proves that you're a hell of a lot stronger than you give yourself credit for.

@ TigerHunter: Good! Anything else you need to worry about, or is that it for now?

@ CurlyKitGirl: If everyone is confiding stuff to you, that means they think you're trustworthy and give good advice. That means you're definitely worth something to them. I've been in that situation a lot of times, where people are confiding in me and I wonder whether I'm worthy of their trust. Just keep listening; that's all they really need, and it helps them do their own work. Making people want to keep going is just as useful as doing work yourself. If If you're at college, you're being useful even if you don't get a job or do chores. Learning is a bit like sleeping: it takes a little time, but it makes you a lot more useful later.

[TigerHunter]

@ TigerHunter: Good! Anything else you need to worry about, or is that it for now?

That's it. Thankfully. And I've never felt better.
Hopefully things'll stay that way.

[Sisqui]

Warning! Excessive verbiage ahead! (Those of you familiar with my posts know this is a genuine public service announcement )

Spoiler

Show

My intent is not to slap anyone down. There are those who suffer a mental break and and can find it within themselves to get up and get on with life. The reality is that I envy such people. Then there are those of us who have a genuine illness that cannot be flipped on and off like a lightswitch.

Bor, with all due respect, I have to take issue with this ( ). I think that this attitude towards overcoming depression does more harm than good. People don't "flip it on/off like a lightswitch." Those peole who learn to pick themselves up and deal with life, those who learn to LIVE it, do so at great personal cost. That effort should not be trivialized in such a way. Sucking it up and moving on with your life is, IMHO, the harder course. And while there are diseases which can be verified by medical testing, most depressive episodes can't. And yet, there is a seemingly endless stream of "healthcare professionals" who think that the only solution to the microwave generation's internal angst comes out of a bottle. And when people follow that advice, they just pop a pill and wait to start feeling better. And it doesn't happen. They do exactly what they did before: sit alone in their rooms raging at the heavens that the limit of their existence is their own four walls- when it is they who confine themselves to them. My point in an earlier post is simply this: no one, no pill, can save you unless you are first willing to save yourself. That may (and I give only grudging acceptance to that) include pharmaceutical help. But that alone is not enough. You might need a crutch to get up and get moving, but that pill by itself isn't going to get you very far. And lots of people use pills and therapists as blinds to shield themselves from the reality that only hard work is going to change things. People try the pills to say they've tried, putting the entire burden of success on the medication, and doctors are usually only too happy to allow them to do so. But, I will tell you, it is possible to define success in such a way that the only possible result is failure and this pill-popping mentality truly is one way of doing that. It gives the illusion of having tried without actually having done so. And that will inevitably result in a failure that is bad enough in and of itself, but that compounds itself by reinforcing the subconcious assumption that success is not possible at all.

But I do acknowledge that there are severe mental illnesses for which medication is the only alternative. Bipolar disorder, schizophrenias, etc... must be treated with meds. But generic, run of the mill depression, which most people go through at some point, need not be treated with meds so often. It would be better by far for people to learn adequate coping skills instead.

It's so hard to make someone understand what depression does to me. I become motivated to do absolutely nothing. I hide in my apartment, avoiding human contact as best as possible, and plot my demise. I have written countless suicide notes when I'm at my worst, then go back and read them when I'm better, and they seem like the ravings of an enraged madman. "I will kill myself, and you will suffer because..." Uh huh. In reality, people will be hurt, and then move on with their lives.

My post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is another one that's hard to get across. My father can't understand how I've become so afraid of people. No joke, people...I require medication to go and see my doctor. I once went without them and had a blood pressure of 164 over 92. I take it an hour or two before I go, and I'm a textbook 120 over 80, if not a slightly more impressive 110 over 70. This medication is an anti-anxiety pill, not for high blood pressure.

Not knowing you personally, I would not presume to tell you what therapy might be necessary to deal with this, but it might be better to take the anti-anxiety medication while at the same time trying to find the SOURCE of the anxiety and confront it. If you could face it, and face it down, that might be more constructive than the behavior you just mentioned. And I know that you know that type of behavior you describe acts as a positive feedback loop- infinitely reinforcing itself.

These things seem pretty bad, right?

Actually, to me, that doesn't seem so bad. Maybe not so good, but definitely not impossible to overcome. I have great faith in a person's ability to heal themselves if they believe that they can and if they make the determination that they WILL. Not of the diabetes, certainly, but the other stuff, yes. And I mean that in the most encouraging and uplifting way possible.

Now imagine those who are worse off than I am. Imagine someone who surrenders to the fight, and doesn't make an effort to help themselves at all, let alone others. Imagine the poor soul whose voices shout so loudly that she silences them by leaping into oncoming traffic. Or the athlete so obsessed on making a weight-class that his belemia puts him into a coma. Or the poor depressed person who self-medicates themselves to an overdose.

Clearly these people need help of some sort. Hearing voices requires meds. But the bulimia and depression need more than that. They need a commitment to change. However helpful they might find a pill to be in dealing with the problem, it will not solve the problem. Getting at the root cause of their low self-esteem and taking action to correct it will do that.

The sentiment beind "snap out of it" isn't necessarily a bad one. Unfortunately, it's simply not an option for some. It's why we come to this thread. We connect with others in similar circumstances, listen when needed, make helpful suggestions when we can, and often dish out much-needed hugs.

I would hope that listening to the stories of those who have survived it-not just those who have continued to exist, but who have survived and thrived- would be part of what causes people to "snap out of it" as you say. Hearing positive stories, and knowing that you absolutely CAN do it, should encourage people to try. To really, really try which requires so much more than just taking meds.

I hope you see this in the spirit it was meant, not as an attack but as a counter to your arguments. I don't think the meds are useless, I just think that the heavy lifting of genuine recovery is done by the person, not the pill. For some people the hardest thing to do in life is grant themselves permission to actually live it.

[Tom_Violence]

I finally realized there is no one who can make your life better for you.

Not entirely true, as anyone that has suffered a broken bone can no doubt attest to. Flippant, yes, but an important point. There exist mental health issues that are simply not within the realms of things that the suffer can deal with on their own. Willpower is an amazing thing, but it does not conquer all.

No, I get what he was saying. I have been depressed before, a two week slump where I was on the verge of tears and in a cloud where all I could do is write horrible poetry about how cold and dark the world is.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but 2 weeks isn't necessarily too much to worry about. A lot of people suffer from short-term depressions, lasting up to around six months ish. I don't know if everyone suffers from the poetry though.

Cause that's what caused my depression, having no control. Without my car, me parents had to drive me, and on that horrible night, I realized that wasn't reliable. (At this point, and I guess then, I could care less about my family. I guess if it happens again where I'm stranded, and they tell me they won't come like that, I'll just walk to a friends house or something. Maybe I'll begin an epic Roadtrip.) School's worse, you do everything by bell. Hell, you here the bell you have the urge to get up. They program you, and give you no freedom, from the point that you enter the bus, to the point you get off the bus, they have total control over you. Work's even worse, and that Cash Register thing proved how much they could control me; I won't work at a place where they make me wait to count out my register again. Outside of that, I have nothing, but this place.

A lack of feeling in control is certainly a major influence on many an ill mood. Thankfully though, there are often steps that can be taken to deal with it, either actually, or cognitively. Something interests me about the school situation though. While I fully sympathise with your situation (my brother is the exact same way, he cannot stand to not be his own boss), most people are able to grin and bear it. Its not forever, its just something that has to be got through and dealt with. Why do you think that is? My initial impression is that your way of thinking about it may be quite significant - one phrase that sticks out is "They program you...they have total control over you." I went to a school stricter than most, yet never did I feel this way. I always knew the things that I could do for myself, and the things that were out of my control (and there are always things out of your control). Perhaps try indentifying things that you do have some power over, and moving to get something positive out of that.

Completely unrelated to anything: a danger occurs to me - with a thread devoted to people talking about their problems, and given the strength of some of these problems, I can't help but wonder what the effect on those with relatively minor ailments is. It doesn't stirke me as implausible that one might exaggerate one's situation (consciously or otherwise) in order to make it able to attract the attention of the audience here, for which there is much competition. Perhaps there is something self-perpetuating about these things afterall. I'm not saying a place like this is inherently bad. Just that a great deal of caution needs to be observed. Ask yourself - do you really think that people who don't know you can help you with your problems given a mere smattering of information? This place, while potentially good, is no real substitute for genuine professional help. I just feel that is something that needs to be stressed.

[Sisqui]

Not entirely true, as anyone that has suffered a broken bone can no doubt attest to. Flippant, yes, but an important point. There exist mental health issues that are simply not within the realms of things that the suffer can deal with on their own. Willpower is an amazing thing, but it does not conquer all.

Psst.......see my later post

Ask yourself - do you really think that people who don't know you can help you with your problems given a mere smattering of information? This place, while potentially good, is no real substitute for genuine professional help. I just feel that is something that needs to be stressed.

Which is exactly what just about everyone here does say.

[13_CBS]

This place, while potentially good, is no real substitute for genuine professional help. I just feel that is something that needs to be stressed.

That's true, but some of us can't afford it or, in my case, feel uneasy about seeking such.

[Sisqui]

That's true, but some of us can't afford it or, in my case, feel uneasy about seeking such.

I don't know if this applies to your reasons for being uneasy or not but one thing I have noticed is that people will put their doctors in the dominant role in their relationship. They seem to assume that the doctor is in control and then they take this pill and change that habit etc... based on what the doctors say. But a doctor is a private contractor. YOU have hired HIM. He is the employee. Seeing the relationship that way can be very empowering in that you get to be much less shy about asserting yourself. After all, you are the one footing the bill. If you don't like the quality of the work or his personality- FIRE HIM!

[sheepofoblivion]

I haven't read most of the posts on this thread, but I'm pretty sure that I'll fit into this one, (being the depressed person I am) (even if my signature does have a smiley at the end)

[StickMan]

Anyone have any good advice for someone in a huge sophomore slump. I should be working on a paper tonight instead I think I just came out with an all time posts in one day record for myself. I've been like this all year.

I'm not sure if the sophomore slump is worth of this thread but if anyone has advice, I would applicate it.

Stickman

(Just looked I posted 16 times today my norm is like 2-4)

[Sisqui]

I haven't read most of the posts on this thread, but I'm pretty sure that I'll fit into this one, (being the depressed person I am) (even if my signature does have a smiley at the end)

Actually, with that sig, I'm sure you'll fit in perfectly

Anyone have any good advice for someone in a huge sophomore slump. I should be working on a paper tonight instead I think I just came out with an all time posts in one day record for myself. I've been like this all year.

I'm not sure if the sophomore slump is worth of this thread but if anyone has advice, I would applicate it.

Stickman

Is your slump due to boredom, overwork, stress, or lack of a significant other. Inquiring minds and all. Plus, it helps to know a little about the root cause of the problem.

[Tom_Violence]

Psst.......see my later post



Which is exactly what just about everyone here does say.

Yes, indeed. I spotted your post just after that magical 'Send' button was pressed. However, even so I think you oversimplify things. I understand this is probably a huge tangent from the rest of the thread, so I shall continue the spoiler way.

Spoiler

Show

You mention that things like bulimia need an action of will to improve. Now, either this is totally trivial (even a schizophrenic needs to actually take his drugs, even a cancer patient needs to actually go to chemotherapy, etc.), or it still may not necessarily be the case. Bulimia is a terribly complex condition, and it is entirely possible for there to be sufferers out there for whom no amount, literally no amount of good will and strength of mind will help their condition on its own. For these people, drugs may well be essential. And once this possibility is understood, it becomes conceivable that there are people for whom, with the right drugs, the rest becomes easy.

Basically, what I'm trying to stress is that there's no singular theory, no singular cause, for these conditions, so no matter what you're looking at to say definitively "drugs are not enough" seems almost callous to me, as there will be people that need the drugs. There's also a certain unfalsifiability to the idea that if drugs alone don't help then clearly the individual isn't trying hard enough. One conclusion I often see scarily drawn from this is that if someone needs drugs then they're also not trying hard enough. I guess if I had to boil this down to a core issue, it would be: "if you remove drugs (and all the biology that comes with that), cognitive-behaviour therapy, etc., what is this 'force of will' that we're left with?" I understand that one needs to not expect a passive approach to getting better to work, but beyond saying "go to a professional, and listen to them" I don't see what more there is to it. Of course that just opens up the can of worms of how capable someone really is of seeking help if they have a serious condition... Oh dear.

Anyway, I also think that my second point still stands though that a thread for collects woes can indeed encourage them.

[Sisqui]

Yes, indeed. I spotted your post just after that magical 'Send' button was pressed. However, even so I think you oversimplify things. I understand this is probably a huge tangent from the rest of the thread, so I shall continue the spoiler way.

Spoiler

Show

You mention that things like bulimia need an action of will to improve. Now, either this is totally trivial (even a schizophrenic needs to actually take his drugs, even a cancer patient needs to actually go to chemotherapy, etc.), or it still may not necessarily be the case. Bulimia is a terribly complex condition, and it is entirely possible for there to be sufferers out there for whom no amount, literally no amount of good will and strength of mind will help their condition on its own. For these people, drugs may well be essential. And once this possibility is understood, it becomes conceivable that there are people for whom, with the right drugs, the rest becomes easy.

Clearly these people need help of some sort. Hearing voices requires meds. But the bulimia and depression need more than that. They need a commitment to change. However helpful they might find a pill to be in dealing with the problem, it will not solve the problem. Getting at the root cause of their low self-esteem and taking action to correct it will do that.

Basically, what I'm trying to stress is that there's no singular theory, no singular cause, for these conditions, so no matter what you're looking at to say definitively "drugs are not enough" seems almost callous to me, as there will be people that need the drugs.

I don't think the meds are useless, I just think that the heavy lifting of genuine recovery is done by the person, not the pill. For some people the hardest thing to do in life is grant themselves permission to actually live it.

There's also a certain unfalsifiability to the idea that if drugs alone don't help then clearly the individual isn't trying hard enough. One conclusion I often see scarily drawn from this is that if someone needs drugs then they're also not trying hard enough. I guess if I had to boil this down to a core issue, it would be: "if you remove drugs (and all the biology that comes with that), cognitive-behaviour therapy, etc., what is this 'force of will' that we're left with?" I understand that one needs to not expect a passive approach to getting better to work, but beyond saying "go to a professional, and listen to them" I don't see what more there is to it. Of course that just opens up the can of worms of how capable someone really is of seeking help if they have a serious condition... Oh dear.

Anyway, I also think that my second point still stands though that a thread for collects woes can indeed encourage them.

You know, I went looking for an article yesterday (in relation to this thread, no less) that I read awhile back that stated the same thing. It said people who got therapy or went to group therapy actually took longer to recover than people who dealt with their problems themselves. I just couldn't find it

EDIT:AHEM, as to the content of the spoiler, open it in my post to read my reposts from what was in my spoiler above.

[sheepofoblivion]

... I wonder what part of me will cut myself more, the drow part, or the sheep from oblivion...

[Sisqui]

... I wonder what part of me will cut myself more, the drow part, or the sheep from oblivion...

What?

[wadledo]

What?

I think he still thinks this is part of the joke.

[Sisqui]

I think he still thinks this is part of the joke.

What joke? I must have missed that part.......

[wadledo]

What joke? I must have missed that part.......

Most of this forum is humorous, and he thinks this paticular thread is supposed to be funny.