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2007-11-17, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Not in Trogland
Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Is it true that if you have no ranks in spot, 6 or lower wisom score and you roll a natural 1 you can't see a non hiding orc, or anything else.
Last edited by Emperor Demonking; 2007-11-17 at 11:38 AM.
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2007-11-17, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Kanagawa, Japan
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
No, it's not true. You don't make Spot Checks to see, you make them to notice hidden or obscured things. Also, a 'natural' 1 makes no difference to anything. If your DM did call for a Spot Check to notice the Orc right in front of your character, he'd better be using Circumstance Modifiers or have a good reason why your character didn't notice him.
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
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2007-11-17, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Not in Trogland
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Its not the natural 1, its the net finish of -1.
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2007-11-17, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Croatia
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
The DC for something in plain sight is something like -20, not 0. There is really no justifiable reason for not seeing the said orc.
There is no good and evil. There is only more and less.
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2007-11-17, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Canada, eh?
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
You only make Spot checks for concealed (or otherwise difficult to see) objects or creatures. No hiding, no Spot check.
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2007-11-17, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Kanagawa, Japan
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
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2007-11-17, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Well, that and the idea that there ought to actually be a skill involved in spotting things that aren't hiding, under some circumstances (distance, particularly) and it would seem that it should be spot.
Making that produce non-stupid results probably requires more than just assigning a negative base DC though.
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2007-11-17, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Gender
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2007-11-17, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Kentucky
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Many people who could be considered spacey (Low Wis?) might think "Oh where did Shelly go?" when Shelly is right in front of her.
I'd think not seeing an orc if you got a -1 is possible.
I mean how many people have lost items they were holding? Similar concept.
But chances are you'd never have to roll to see an Orc in plain sight anyways.Last edited by Setra; 2007-11-17 at 12:58 PM.
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2007-11-17, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Boston
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Hm...
1 Wisdom = -5 modifier
Inattentive flaw = -4
Nearsighted trait = -2
Absentminded trait = -1 (a few other traits give -1 spot, but you can only take 2)
Total Spot Modifier: -12
Can anyone beat that? With that character, on average (roll 10 on d20) you can't see something "in plain sight" (DC 0 spot).
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2007-11-17, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
5e D&D Mythos Classes
General Rules
Swordbearer Class
Cynosure Class
Mechanikos Class
Adversary Class
Discussion Thread
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2007-11-17, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
This is what blinded does:
Blinded
... All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.Last edited by wgabrie; 2007-11-17 at 02:37 PM.
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2007-11-17, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- My own little world
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Someone with really bad vision would probably be the equivalent of the somewhat spacey professor with coke bottle glasses. While he could probably tell that there was SOMETHING in front of him he might not be able to tell exactly what it was.
Here is an interesting thought. A character with bad vision like that but with permanent True Seeing or Arcane Sight. Could make roll playing interesting when the party Wizard can only describe the bad guy in terms of his magic items' auras.
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2007-11-17, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- the Realms
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
It is true that if they aren't hiding, you don't even need to spot, although treating it like hearing a battle would be fair (DC -10), if you had a reason to do so. Only thing I could think of that might give you a big enough penalty to fail that, without just making you blind, of course, would be a greater curse, which would hardly be worth it.
Let me try another scenario. You've got a druid wild shaped into a tiny snake, hiding a short distance (say, 80 ft.) from the adventurers. He has size (+8), racial (indigenous snake, +4) modifiers, and partial concealment behind a low ridge. Now he casts a spell. What would be the DC to spot him now, assuming he rolled a 10? Would it be like sniping, -20 to the check? What if the spell didn't track back directly to the druid, like with flame strike?Why is it the best campaign ideas happen when you're sitting down to someone elses game?
Pun-Pun is an example of the worst case scenario. Never, ever, push your DM that far.
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2007-11-17, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Boston
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
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2007-11-17, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Assuming he has Natural Spell (and why wouldn't he?), so that he doesn't have to revert to human form to cast, I'd think stuff like Flame Strike wouldn't be traceable. Even if just for the fact that when fiery doodads come raining out of the sky at you, its not likely you'll be immediately searching for "the suspicious snake".
5e D&D Mythos Classes
General Rules
Swordbearer Class
Cynosure Class
Mechanikos Class
Adversary Class
Discussion Thread
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2007-11-17, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Land of Magic and Ponies
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
i belive that if theres no track betwen the druid and the spell i would say, asuming we have all the relavant factors 22
oh and i agree with xefas. allowing them to roll would maybe tip them offLast edited by vegetalss4; 2007-11-17 at 04:24 PM.
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2007-11-17, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- the Realms
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Well, if someone just cast a flame strike on you, wouldn't you look for them?
My bad, you meant the first time. They had to look for a hidden voice (invisible sorcerer), so I had an excuse. Sometimes, I'm too nice.
Sometimes.Why is it the best campaign ideas happen when you're sitting down to someone elses game?
Pun-Pun is an example of the worst case scenario. Never, ever, push your DM that far.
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2007-11-17, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
A wandering cleric of the God of Vanity and Pettiness (I think it's Hera, correct? Wait, never mind, all the Greek gods were like that) casts bestow curse on this guy because the god is upset that he doesn't notice people. That's another -4. Also, he's a kobold, and it's daytime, so that's another -1. Then we'll have a telepath manifest distract on him, giving him an additional -4.
In total, our unfortunate kobold has an additional -9 modifier from all this, for a total Spot modifier of -21. He is now effectively blind, except that poor eyesight is only responsible for -3 of that penalty. Heck, let's give the guy perfect eyesight (remove the dazzled effect and nearsighted trait) and cast a lullaby on him for a net effect of -2. Now he's still just as blind, but it's all because he's not paying attention: His eyes function perfectly, but his brain just isn't getting the signals.
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2007-11-17, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Boston
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
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2007-11-18, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
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2007-11-18, 09:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Atlantic Ocean
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Actually, you can't miss the orc. If he was looking in the other direction, then he'd make spot checks to turn around.
Once something is .5 closer then it was when the check was originally called for, you automatically see it.
ALSO, you folks are forgetting Rule Zero - Why would the DM have somebody not see something that's 20 feet away?SpoilerAvvies by Z-Axis, now bearer of 3 divine rank.
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2007-11-18, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
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2007-11-18, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Earth... sort of.
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Interesting.. this kobold would be theoretically blind, but without the actual penalties for being, you know, BLIND. He would simply be totally oblivious.
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2007-11-18, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Atlantic Ocean
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
SpoilerAvvies by Z-Axis, now bearer of 3 divine rank.
So you may have heard of Lord Herman. Well, he's pretty awesome.
Chief Arial Commander of HALO
Through hostilties, Leader of AMEN
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2007-11-18, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
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2007-11-18, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Atlantic Ocean
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
SpoilerAvvies by Z-Axis, now bearer of 3 divine rank.
So you may have heard of Lord Herman. Well, he's pretty awesome.
Chief Arial Commander of HALO
Through hostilties, Leader of AMEN
Annoyingly Androgynous ElfLarger Avvies:Shas aia Toriia (under constuction)Spoiler
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2007-11-18, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- where dreams are made
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
I see no orc infront of me,
you shouldnt have to make a spot check to see something right infront of you, unless you have some kind of flawSpoiler
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2007-11-18, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
I once walked into a street sign, but to be fair I don't have ranks in Spot, I have a Wis penalty, wasn't looking where I was going (I was walking into the wind), and the pole was Small sized. So I think I might miss an orc in the right circumstances.
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2007-11-18, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Montréal
- Gender
Re: Spotting the orc right in front of you.
Spotting is not "seeing", it's "noticing".
So it is possible to not notice an orc right in front of you if you have 6 wisdom.