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2009-11-09, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-09, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-09, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-09, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Which would be true, except that blink is a transmutation. I've never played with True Seeing negating blink.
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2009-11-09, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Blink also functions by moving you rapidly between the ethereal and the material plane according to the description. True Seeing lets you see both the Material and the Ethereal plane.
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2009-11-09, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Blink is transmutation. There's really no way besides PMC to get through. PMC says that you ignore all miss chances due to spells. Blink is a spell. Therefore, PMC allows you to ignore Blink.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
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2009-11-09, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Blink is transmutation, not illusion. You're thinking of blur.
So, true seeing wouldn't negate the miss chance. Having the ability to both see and attack opponents on the material or ethereal would.
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2009-11-09, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
I see.
I was looking for ways to do the later (attack enemies on the material plane) to negate the issue, since I could already see them I believe, but suprisingly I could not find anything anywhere.
I thought Ghost Touch property was the obvious option, but it says incorporeal.Does that include ethereal?
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2009-11-09, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
I don't think so. But a weapon made of force should suffice. Such as, a mindblade, spiritual weapon... there might be a magical enchantment for force weapons out there somewhere.
I once read an article that pertained to this.. that made for a pretty inspired trap.
Force effects overlap both the ethereal and material planes.. so, if there was a stone wall on the ethereal but not the material, it would prevent a mage armor-wearing spellcaster on the material from walking through.
To the spellcaster, it would seem as though he were being stopped by some invisible, undetectable force. He wouldn't be able to see a magical aura for it, or touch it.
I like to have stone walls on the ethereal overlap my pit traps.Last edited by Chrono22; 2009-11-09 at 09:28 PM.
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2009-11-09, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
No, Ghost Touch doesn't work. Being Ethereal is being on an entirely different plane; being incorporeal is just having no tangible form. Force weapons and effects don't do what you want either- they cross from Material to Ethereal, but not back the other way.
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2009-11-09, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
When it's your target that is blinking, that works. When you are blinking and your target is ethereal, it still works. When you are blinking and your target is material, it does not work. A force effect extends from the material plane to the ethereal but not the other way around.
Pierce Magical Concealment works by RAW, but RAI is rather shaky and your DM may not allow it. I am not aware of any other way to negate the miss chance from using a Ring of Blinking when attacking a non-ethereal target.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2009-11-09, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Since you spend about half your time on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and even attack ethereal creatures. You interact with ethereal creatures roughly the same way you interact with material ones.
In my games, this hardly comes up. But if it did I would make force effects/aburations totally transparent with regard to the material/ethereal, not one way. It's less complicated, and the one-way direction of magic has never been justified to my knowledge.
I guess you could use other magics to try to bar extraplanar travel, but that's kind of like swatting a fly with a hammer. Dispelling the ring might work.
Sundering it would also be effective.Last edited by Chrono22; 2009-11-09 at 09:46 PM.
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2009-11-09, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Yes, but the blinking is random and not under your control. The 20% miss chance represents the possibility that you tried to time it right and went ethereal partway through your swing.
It's his own ring, deliberately activated by him to gain its benefits for himself. If he wanted to negate the spell entirely he could simply not activate it in the first place.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
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2009-11-09, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Thanks folks. I think I will go with Pierce Magical Concealment route.
Not like there is an option.
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2009-11-09, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
I don't think PMC lets you negate your own miss chance. At least, I certainly wouldn't allow it. Heck, I might not even allow it to cancel out the Blink protection, because it's not concealment (what the feat is obviously intended to defeat), it's simply not being there.
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2009-11-09, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-09, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Actually, it stops you missing from any miss chances. Now, it is getting a bit late, but I believe that Blink does give a miss chance. Ergo, you ignore it.
Plus, why shouldn't you be able to pierce your own magic? Wouldn't it be even easier than piercing someone else's? Furthermore, the feat makes no mention of working only against other's effects: it's a global ability.He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2009-11-09, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
There's a very good reason for this. If you had a weapon capable of striking the Material Plane while ethereal, you'd be able to kill most enemies with impunity. The only way to fight back against that would be to use force effects (or other attacks capable of hitting creatures on another plane), or to shift to the Ethereal Plane, and the vast majority of monsters and NPCs are not going to be capable of either. The game designers didn't want to put that sort of ability in the hands of a character.
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2009-11-09, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
Actually, that depends on how you read it. RAW says
Your fierce contempt for magic allows you to disregard the miss chance granted by spells or spell-like abilities such as darkness, blur, invisibility, obscuring mist, ghostformYour fierce contempt for magic allows you to disregard the miss chance granted by spells or spell-like abilities, such as darkness, blur, invisibility, obscuring mist, ghostformLast edited by lsfreak; 2009-11-09 at 11:26 PM.
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2009-11-09, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
The Rules of the Game from Wizard's site has a little excerpt that applies to this (it mainly applies to sneak attacks).
A blink spell provides the user with some degree of concealment -- and foils sneak attacks -- when the attacker cannot see ethereal opponents. (Both the see invisibility and true seeing spells reveal ethereal opponents).
An attacker that can see, but not affect, ethereal opponents still has a miss chance (20%) against a target using blink because the foe might be ethereal when the attack strikes; however, this does not arise from concealment and does not foil sneak attacks (though a miss is still a miss).
When an attacker is using blink itself, it has a 20% miss chance (because it sometimes finds itself ethereal when its attack strikes home). This miss chance also does not interfere with the attacker's sneak attacks. In fact, a blinking attacker strikes as an invisible creature, and its foes are denied Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class and that makes sneak attacks possible. If the blinking attacker's target can see ethereal opponents, that foe retains Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class and cannot be sneak attacked unless flat-footed or flanked. Because a blinking attacker's "invisibility" is actually etherealness, blindsight does not allow a foe to retain its Dexterity bonus against the attacker, and blindsight does not reduce the miss chance for attacks against the blinking combatant.
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2009-11-09, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
That is a very strange way to read it, to assume that "such as" is meant to require a comparison to the items enumerated as opposed to providing examples for the primary category.
"You are permitted to enter all government buildings or government building-like structures on this block such as the police station, the fire station, the library, and the public park."
Are you permitted to enter a private library under this rule? What about city hall? What result do you get if you use your "similar to the examples listed" test?
Edit: "Such as" can clarify an ambiguous category, for example:
"You have permission to enter into buildings built with Baroque architecture such as..." Someone who is unfamiliar with the Baroque architecture might use the examples as a source for comparison. A useful heuristic that could have a high degree of accuracy, but not an entirely accurate one.
Another example:
"You may enter the doors with an odd (as opposed to even) door number such as Door 3, Door 7, Door 11, Door 23"
Is Door 9 permitted? Is Door 2? If you were enforcing this rule, would you say that as written, it is ambiguous as to whether it grants permission to enter Door 9?Last edited by ocdscale; 2009-11-10 at 12:11 AM.
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2009-11-10, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
It's a fairly ridiculous interpretation of the sentence structure to conclude that the feat's benefit only applies to spells similar to the ones enumerated based on the flavor of the miss chance.
However, it's even more ridiculous to think that your disdain for magic allows you to completely bypass planar barriers, so I would fully support any DM who ruled the miss chance of Blink was not negated by Pierce Magical Concealment.
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2009-11-10, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-10, 12:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
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2009-11-10, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
All About Sneak Attacks, pt. 2. It's about halfway through the article.
Last edited by Magnor Criol; 2009-11-10 at 12:13 AM.
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2009-11-10, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
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2009-11-10, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Where does it say True Seeing negates the 20% miss chance with Ring of Blink
yes it does, and unless you used the metamagic that makes a spell exist in both the material and etherial plane, then you are still gonna have a 20% chance of missing due to your target being ethereal at the moment of "impact".
You don't miss because you can't see the target, you miss because the target is in another dimension 20% of the time.Last edited by taltamir; 2009-11-10 at 12:53 AM.
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2009-11-10, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-10, 01:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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