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2020-11-27, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
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2020-11-27, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2020-11-28, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2020
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- Sendai, Japan
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
The floor colour changed... I'm thinking maybe the corridor got magically swapped with another one? Hopefully not the same one Xykon and Team Evil are in right now...
Also, R.I.P the door... it clearly has Xs where its eyes should be...
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2020-11-28, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2017
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2020-11-28, 12:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2017
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2020-11-28, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2020-11-28, 02:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2020
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
What do you suppose is at the end of this tunnel?
It seems a little early for the Gate, but then again, the whole deal with the rift planet is probably going to take up a decent chunk of plot, so maybe it'll be brought back into focus earlier than expected.
The disembodied voices and captured paladins are another fairly obvious pick, but they seemed to be going up when they left, so maybe not.
Probably the most out-there theory I'm willing to put forward is that Serini Toormuck is still alive, and living in the tunnel complex. It's unlikely, but halflings can live for like a hundred and fifty years in 3.5, so it might be possible depending on long ago the crayon segments with the Order of the Scribble took place.
...do we actually know how long ago those were? The main hint I can think of is that Girard was pretty thoroughly decomposed, but I think that could've happened in well under a hundred and fifty years.B's short for Blatant. My friends call me "Blat."
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2020-11-28, 03:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
"66 years ago" or slightly less:
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.htmlMarut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2020-11-28, 04:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Like many other people in this thread, I really like this theory. It also makes sense that she'd go by what she thought collectively the party would do, since the canon explanation so far is that she designed a dungeon based on Kraagor's, aka. not her own beliefs.
Soon's honor... well in his case it was manifested in him being honorbound to guard the gate in perpetuity. I wonder if
Originally Posted by Page 277
^_ The precise conclusion I just reached. Although I should say "theory", this is hardly substantive.Last edited by Bedinsis; 2020-11-28 at 04:04 AM.
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2020-11-28, 04:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose
"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
" Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."
Note to Self:
If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard
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2020-11-28, 04:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
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- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I mean Dorukan was still alive until Xykon killed him a few months before the comic started. Since as mentioned earlier halflings live longer than humans, it’s hardly impossible for Serini to be still alive, albeit probably with a considerable penalty to her physical points and on her last age category or something.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2020-11-28, 06:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
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- South France
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
so does this mean that i was right for once in my rampant speculation? that the answer to this shell game is all of them, rather than none of them?
It's "locksmith of LOVE!" not "LO!"
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2020-11-28, 06:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Sneaky sneaky. They have not entered the tomb behind the door they went through. That "trap" is a seamless teleport. That's why the floor on the other side is a different colour. Cause it's the colour of the floor of the tomb they're teleporting to.
I figure there is only one real tomb that keeps resetting and all the other's are just doors with a corridor.
Has someone been playing the original Doom?
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2020-11-28, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Serini would want it to be secure against brute force or rogues without knowledge, while accessible by those Serini wants to let in.
We know she was a rogue who liked co-operation.
We know the team are co-operating more
We know the paladin's are somewhere (on the same side of a divide as blackwing?)
It makes some sense that she'd be able to get each of the other scribblers to help just a bit, or otherwise do something inspired by them.
It makes a lot of sense that there is some trick in the presentation of the puzzle.
It makes sense that it would be intend to require co-operation
It makes a lot of sense that regardless it will be solved by co-operation
Any shell-game trick shouldn't leave the gate vulnerable to random discovery
Any trick shouldn't be (completely) solvable by a rogue being roguey (e.g. just a spot check)
The text in the Scribbler story is odd. "Serini wasn't the type for retiring, so she built a tomb to honour Kragaar". At the time I half read that as being and then she went back adventuring (and then became Belkor's mum /s). Technically it doesn't even imply that the gate and tomb are related (though if there wasn't ever a gate it would be game over...).
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2020-11-28, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2020
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- Italy
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
While I agree that there must be a way to reach the gate, be it by brute force or cunning or whatever (otherwise the story would be unable to go on), I still think that this is due to the defenses not being 100% perfect rather than being a considerate choice from Serini's part in allowing the right kind of party to succeed.
Having said that, I'm still not sure about what the trap would exactly do. Teleport into the real dungeon? Give access to Serini's maintenance access? Prevent the monsters from escaping (in that case, it could be bad news for the bug bears...)? I can wait for the next strip.
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2020-11-28, 08:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I still find it somewhat doubtful that Serini would assume that only a good save-the-world team would have an advanced rogue and good teamwork, and that an evil use-the-gates-to-take-over-the-world team would lack an advanced rogue, and would not have the required levels of cooperation.
Designing the tombs’ protection system based on that assumption seems risky. The kind of risk that a rogue like Serini would avoid.
She would have redundancies on her redundancies, and contingencies on her contingencies
Edit: don’t get me wrong, I like this theory. I want it to be true. So I’m waiting for more layers of only-a-good-team-would-be-able-to-solve-this type puzzles, curious what they will be.Last edited by Hiro Quester; 2020-11-28 at 08:20 AM.
Spoiler: Avatar & Iron Chef AwardsAwesome Dragonfire Bard Avatar by Oneris. A detailed version is here.
Iron Chef awards:
IC C Swiftblade: Honorable Mention for Pahika Kanikani, the Wardancer
IC CII Blade Dancer: Silver for Hu Tiaowu, the Jungle Guardian
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2020-11-28, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: Avatar & Iron Chef AwardsAwesome Dragonfire Bard Avatar by Oneris. A detailed version is here.
Iron Chef awards:
IC C Swiftblade: Honorable Mention for Pahika Kanikani, the Wardancer
IC CII Blade Dancer: Silver for Hu Tiaowu, the Jungle Guardian
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2020-11-28, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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2020-11-28, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2020-11-28, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
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2020-11-28, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder if Oona might know about the trap, but feel no obligation to mention it. She has no particular interest in finding the Gate, after all -- she's just along for the EP and treasure from clearing out all the tunnels.
I wouldn't be surprised if the MitD wasn't the only one on team evil who is playing dumb for their own ends, in other words.
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2020-11-28, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- In a castle under the sea
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
It's not a matter of having a particular "style" or being "smart" enough; it's a matter of having a good enough Search and Disable Device skill (which are admittedly both Int-based skills), and the Trapfinding ability that lets you disable magical traps. Team Evil has a sorcerer, a cleric, a...druid?...and a big friendly monster. None of them have either Disable Device or Search as class skills. And magical traps are f*ing hard to find and disable—they can't just grab an apprentice from the local Goblin Thieves' Guild and call it a day. They would need a high-level rogue to find and disable the traps, which requires expecting that there would be a lot of nasty magical traps alongside the monsters—which certainly wasn't reflected in the description Soon got of her Gate's defenses, and if she was clever she would have left the traps out of her diary.
To summarize in less game-ey terms: Team Evil doesn't have someone who can deal with magical traps because that's a very specialized skill and they didn't expect magical traps.
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2020-11-28, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
"I understood that reference."
So, when TE tracks the Order to this door (because Belkar didn't have enough time to sufficiently obscure their trail), do we think that when the Order looks behind them, they can see TE walk through the door? Or will the Order not see anything at all besides another dungeon corridor?
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2020-11-28, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
By curiosity, is the dead rat an actual D&D reference, like the bat guano? Or is it just a random item?
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2020-11-28, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- France
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
I agree.
The Vector Legion is a notable example of an evil party who would use the gates to their own ends if they could and who has (or had) good teamwork and may have a rogue.
No. The Ioun Stone don't give additional spells. It only improves the effective caster level for the purpose of calculating the spells' effect and caster level checks.Last edited by Petrocorus; 2020-11-28 at 12:23 PM.
Que tous les anciens dieux et les nouveaux protègent la France.
Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF. -- -- Petrocorus's 3.5 Paladin Builds List. -- -- French vs. EnglishOriginally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
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2020-11-28, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
And the traps have never done anything obvious. If they were set up properly -- that is, they didn't do anything unless they were messed with by a skilled rogue -- Team Evil never had any sign that they should be looking for traps there. Now... there's the partially-obscured trail leading towards the doors, and the mummified osquip skull (a tunnel dweller, arguably a normal creature at that location?) with an underlying scent of generations of dwarves (if that scent can be detected under that of the skull itself) showing some signs of "blast" damage. It's not a lot to go on, but it's a clue that something odd happened at that location.
EDIT:
It's from the bonus material in Utterly Dwarfed. It's a mummified osquip skull.Last edited by bunsen_h; 2020-11-28 at 12:27 PM.
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2020-11-28, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2019
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Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
So does Blackwing make it back in time?
What's his air speed?
He has a bauble, is he laden or unladen?
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2020-11-28, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
On further thought: they've left a clear trail to the first door they entered, and a partially-obscured trail from there to this one. Which muddies the water considerably: what level of bluff are they playing? Did they really double back? Did they choose some other route altogether?
I don't suppose there's any magic along the lines of "scry the recent history of a location", AKA "video surveillance"?
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2020-11-28, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
Yes,
It does make sense that the order having both those features, enables them to be more likely to succeed despite Serini's designs, and aesthetically makes a nice story. But it can't be the whole picture.
While I totally think Serini's Rogue&Co-operation is going to be important, and the groups Rogue&Co-operation is going to be important, it can't be everything.
The rogue out-rogueing the rogue can only get you so far (especially if you are following the first rogues footsteps). And if there is no reason at all why all the same things couldn't be done by an evil rogue, that makes an unsatisfying ending.
As regards the co-operation side it (seems like it) has to be in two mostly unconnected ways. Evil being fundamentally selfish does at least make more sense...
(with a possibility that each member of the scribble has a contribution that is worked round by each member of the stick, but I can't see that being intentional)
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2020-11-28, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: OOTS #1220 - The Discussion Thread
The rat head was left on the trap line, half over. If the trap line is in fact an invisible portal, that means when it activates again the rat head may be cut in half, or at least appear to exist only on one side of the portal. That would certainly let team evil figure out what is happening.