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2021-01-22, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Nice.
I’d written off the floor color as a visual distortion from the magic barrier myself.
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2021-01-22, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Looks like the Order now has a tunnel to explore.
Would Divination on the trap let a guardian monitor the crossings, in addition to showing the portal destination as if it were just a regular tunnel?
Unfortunately, the Order demonstrating such competence means that, at least by standard tropes, the villains will probably become that much more competent as well... :PSpoilerI Am A: Chaotic Neutral Human Sorcerer (5th Level)
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2021-01-22, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Bravo! This is the first time I've laughed -- really laughed -- at an OOTS strip in a long time. Blackwing's punchline cracked me up.
So now we know it's a teleportation trap much like the never-ending corridor in Wizardry I: Proving Grounds of the mad overlord (The corridor was actually 40' long, but there was a teleportation trap at 30' which sent you back to 10', so if you just walked down it you'd walk forever and never get anywhere).
This also tells us that the MITD's marking of additional doors did not help or hinder Team Evil, since they were always travelling to a decoy corridor anyway. Nonetheless, the attempt definitely counts towards a good alignment, since ze was attempting to hinder the evil villains in the most efficient way the MITD knew.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2021-01-22, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
...Mountebank is one of those Dragon Compendium base classes right? IIRC I think it did explicitly get its magical abilities from lower powers...
Also if we want to get pedantic, there are plenty of ways besides that. Factotum. The Chameleon PrC. Even a core-only Arcane Trickster might be able to pull that off.
But then, she probably isn't (khm, her life and times, khm).Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2021-01-22, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2019
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
I think the scorch mark appearing by Blackwing from Roy's point of view is probably a mistake. Blackwing doesn't see it on that side from either of his points of view (entering the door, and after passing through the barrier to Xykon's side).
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2021-01-22, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2021
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Hm... the panel where Roy's looking through is a little confusing, since... isn't that dead end where the tunnel they're actually in terminates, just beyond the projection? Shouldn't the floor be the same yellower color in the dead-end? Or is the projection also a teleporter (hence the WONNNH), going to a third location with the same greener floor as the entrance? (And who builds a teleporter pointing to a dead end?)
On an unrelated note... how much do you want to bet Monster Hollow doesn't "regenerate" monsters like Redcloak is assuming? If these portals can switch around where they're pointing to, why not have them switch on a rotation of, say, a couple months, naturally? The MitD's trick here- surely Serini Toormuck would've thought of it when designing the place, and thought "well, okay, so what if I set it up to do that automatically?" Switching where the doors go every few months, so anyone trying to systematically work through them by marking the doors is wasting their time?
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2021-01-22, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2020
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Does this mean there now exists the potential for the OOTS to trap Team Evil inside if they break the trap? It wouldn't be a win, but it would give the Order a lot of breathing room.
Last edited by Night Knight; 2021-01-22 at 10:19 AM.
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2021-01-22, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
If you consider the strip as part of a graphic novel (which it is) and the readers as someone who never visits the forum, the exposition is needful.
As a part of the audience, this is the closest I'll ever get to being a Sexy Shoeless God of War, I guess. V had a few strips commenting on how talent for making the laws of physics sit in the corner and cry was acknowledged as part of magic's benefit - the second law can go and hang insofar as magic is concerned in OoTSland.
Oh my goodness, I didn't get the ref until you mentioned it. I guess I am not smart enough on the 3.5 edition here; don't rangers have trap finding skills? (I was under the impression that Oona is some kind of ranger).
PS: thank you Giant. This is a fun strip.
I keep thinking "Roy Greenhat" these days. I really like his green wool watch cap head gear. One of those "small details I enjoy" about the strip.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-01-22 at 10:22 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-01-22, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2021-01-22, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
I think the idea is that dust and light from the door is also teleported through the barrier, causing similar discoloration in the fake dungeon, while the real dungeon has not become discolored because it's protected from the outside elements.
As I understand this, there are two dungeons - Dungeon A, (the real one with the door, leading to the gate) and Dungeon B (the fake one with the dead end, leading to a random dungeon). If you enter the portal - from either direction - you are teleported to the other dungeon. Team Evil passes from Dungeon A into Dungeon B.
I wonder if there is a unique Dungeon B for every door (as in every door leads to a fake dungeon of its own) or if it's sort of a roulette system, randomly changing which dungeon the door is connected to after regular intervals.
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2021-01-22, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Alas, poor Blackwing. I think your high-grade sarcasm may have been lost on Roy.
It is now confirmed that Team Evil has never actually explored the dungeon which hides the gate, aside from the first few feet of numerous tunnels. No rogue; no gate.
My objection is that you'd think that either Xykon or Redcloak would have cast Detect Magic sometime and noticed the trap. But ... if you get into a habit (open the door, walk down the tunnel) why vary the routine?This ... is my signature finishing move!
"It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady
According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
http://easydamus.com/character.html
I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)
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2021-01-22, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Presumably, the dead end is physically connected to Team Evil's tunnel, and magically connected to the area around Kragor's Tomb, while the Order's tunnel is physically connected to Kragor's Tomb and magically connected to the dead end. Otherwise, we have a third tunnel somewhere supplying the dead end for no reason.
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2021-01-22, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Mhm. Precisely. It's an underwhelming rogue-analogue that pledges its soul to gentlemen in the ventral position in exchange for a couple of magic tricks.
Also if we want to get pedantic, there are plenty of ways besides that. Factotum. The Chameleon PrC. Even a core-only Arcane Trickster might be able to pull that off.
There's being terminally stupid, and there's being stupid enough to have your location holding the cosmic underpants of the universe up defeated by a literal cantrip. I'm not sure if even early-OotS Elan was that stupid.
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2021-01-22, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
https://www.dnd-spells.com/spell/nystuls-magic-aura
Magical auras can be spoofed and, for magical traps, they routinely are. The mage who sets them knows that another mage could easily find them, and therefore takes pains to hide the trap from their own skillset.
Rules as Written, and specifically, only a rogue has a chance to find a magical trap. Possibly because a mage is stepping into their turf, and is doing a fantastic MAGICAL job, but it's hard to outdo a scoundrel at their own game.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm
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2021-01-22, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Given that the bugbears, per Oona's exposition, go in and out with some frequency before Team Evil arrives, maybe they listened to Oona and friends and were pre-disposed to just accept the dungeon passageways at face value - hence no need to cast detect magic.
The smartest guy in Team Evil, Redcloak, looks at all of those doors and arrives at a method to use process of elimination and probability to narrow down the choices to the correct door. He's being taken in by the meta-shell game, isn't he? That shows us a bit of the rogue element folded into this gate's protection design. Redcloak falls for "if we just pick the right door we'll find it" ruse. Picking the right door will, I suspect, never lead you to the gate. You'll always go to a random dungeon, somewhere, and fight various beasties.
Oona mentions that the dungeons replenish, right? Or, maybe they (bugbears and later team evil) are depopulating the dungeons one by one, and end up in a random one each time so it seems like the dungeons are repopulating. When the have cleaned out the last dungeon that Serini stocked, they still won't have found the gate. Team Evil feels that they are under time pressure. Wasting time on fruitless search frustrates attaining their goals, and allows for others to arrive and disrupt their plan. That would seem to be an element of how to construct a gate's defense.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-01-22 at 10:44 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-01-22, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
So the Order of the Stick now has a working theory for how the trap works. Nice.
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2021-01-22, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
"flap, flap, flap, flap."
Oh, my god. I've laughed so hard. Thankfully i was not at work. i doubt I could have stopped it.Last edited by Sebastian; 2021-01-22 at 10:38 AM.
I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose
"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
" Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."
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If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard
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2021-01-22, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Team Evil keeps finding monsters, so I think that means each teleport trap sends you to a different location.
Factotums are indeed fun.
It may be that V's Detect Magic works because they cast it from the inside; part of the Divination magic might be giving a false result to Detect Magic, although I suspect that would be more than "minor" Divination.This ... is my signature finishing move!
"It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady
According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
http://easydamus.com/character.html
I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)
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2021-01-22, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Blackwing's statement in the last panel isn't sarcasm, at least, it's Blackwing's version of what V says here, IMO:
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0203.htmlMarut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2021-01-22, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Colorado
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
This ... is my signature finishing move!
"It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady
According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
http://easydamus.com/character.html
I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)
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2021-01-22, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
All of this, but mainly the first paragraph. Roy stuck his head into a different tunnel than where the Order is. It might even be a different tunnel than what TE is currently in. I'm interested in discovering what would happen if Roy went completely through the portal, then reversed and went back through it. I don't think he'd end up with the Order, but I don't know where he'd end up.
(This is making me want to use Feynman diagrams to try and figure out what's going on.)
I think if Haley were to disable the portal from the door side, TE would still be able to come back to the door side, as her actions wouldn't affect the portal where TE currently is. My guess is all doors lead to the same thing, if you bypass the portal. Ties in with Roy's observation about the close spaced doors and where do you fit the corridors. No idea if that same thing is the Gate.
I wonder if there's a second set of portals, more difficult to find than this first one?
Glad the Giant is well and posting again.
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2021-01-22, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-01-22, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
This gave me a good late night chuckle.
Thanks Giant, loving the work as always.
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2021-01-22, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-22, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
So, it's because the way it is set up that Tree Seeing doesn't tell that it's happening.
It's not actually an illusion. It's a trap that teleports them, with a Divination spell that shows them their destination.
It's actually quite clever. The only reason the OoTS got through it is because they had a high level rogue who actually saw the trap. Team Evil... well, a High Level Cleric and Sorcerer can get through a lot... but traps will still be a problem.3DS Friend Code: 1907-9395-1731
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2021-01-22, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
„Yes, this theory keeps coming up, and I happen to be one of the folks who keep pointing out that »all the doors lead to the Gate if one has a rogue« would be a horrible defense. (…) [I]f there are two corridors behind each door, the second of which can only be accessed if the trap is disarmed, and only one of the secondary corridors (which are guarded) leads to the Gate, it's clever. (…)
If, rather, disarming the trap behind any door leads to the one secondary corridor which leads to the Gate, now that's DUMB, period, even if the secondary corridor is guarded.”
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2021-01-22, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
It does exactly that, and depending on the designers resources you can do a lot of great stuff with the spell. Like the dungeon I'm running right now where every five foot square of the dungeon's floor, walls, and roof, have had the spell cast on them to register as a different school of magic to baffle attempts to detect within the dungeon. I'm a complete and total moron and even I worked this idea out so I'm sure a high level rogue with the kind of resources like Serini can do much better.
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2021-01-22, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
I am loving Blackwing!
"Flap, flap, flap, flap" made me laugh out loud.
Thanks Giant!
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2021-01-22, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Skyron, Andromeda
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Hmm, interesting that trying to go back through teleports you again. I wonder if going all the way through and then through again would bring you to a yet another spot...
I cackled at that last punchline.
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2021-01-22, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
I just noticed Blackwing is visible flying in the panel where Roy's head went through. So, I'm guessing Roy would be transported to TE's tunnel if he were to do what I suggested. If TE, returning to the door, saw the portal, disabled it, and walked past it, they'd see Roy's head's alcove dead end.
So no 3rd set of tunnels. (Funny what you miss: I'd have sworn Blackwing wasn't there in that panel, the first time I read the strip.)