WandaVision

[Kareeah_Indaga]

+1 would rather see Okoye as the new Black Panther.

Shuri can be queen - she’s part of the Wakanda royal family, she’s got no reason to make Wakanda do a 180 politically so they don’t have to upend any plans there as far as the greater MCU goes - but she already has a niche as a tech genius, and her own fighting style, and her own fighting gadgets - she doesn’t need to be Black Panther to contribute either to the plot or to superhero fights.

Nakia is a spy, so the obvious, instantly-recognizable cat armor is a no-go and the super powers would only be useful on a regular basis if it turns out she’s terrible at her job. I also gather the Black Panther’s job description is somewhat different from spy craft, so not really something she’s trained for. Additionally such a high-profile position is liable to get her face plastered all over news outlets, social media etc, further complicating any spy work. And she’s a fairly minor character compared to the others which out-of-universe makes her less valuable from a marketing standpoint. And didn’t she already turn it down once?

M’Baku would be interesting but given that his faction is frequently at odds with mainstream Wakanda and the man in charge that he respected is dead, and he’s shown as a traditionalist (thus isolationist, thus not joining any super hero teamups) he would be something of an...odd...choice to be protector of Wakanda. In-universe I could see it happening if he took it by ritual combat but out-of-universe I think he’s too valuable as a rogue element.

Okoye, on the other hand, could use the upgrade. She already fights up close and personal, the powers and armor would help her fight better. She’s loyal to Wakanda and has already protected it and its interests in a variety of ways - bodyguard to the king, general of its armies. We’ve already seen her interact with the Avengers in Endgame so having her take up the Black Panther mantle would just be taking that relationship a step further.

I say they just roll with the powers being fully extinct on earth. And they have to go on a space quest to find the origin of the Vibranium meteorite and maybe another strand of the same plant somewhere.

Didn’t they get it from Bast though? So might be more journey to the spirit world than journey into space.

[Gallowglass]

I 100% believe they will write an elaborate method to bring Michael B Jordon back and make him the new black panther after having a change of heart.

This is based solely on the popularity of the actor and desire to maximize on that.

pros:

member of the royal family
already has the powerset

cons:

he's dead. gotta find a way to bring him back to life.

I further hypothesize that he'll come back from something they do to try and bring T'Challa back (after explaining why he's gone) or to recreate the heart shaped herb and bring him back instead by accident.



my personal desire:

I'd give it to Okoye first, Nakia second and Shuri like... seventieth....

[Draconi Redfir]

Oh lawd. Please don't bring back killmonger

How about we just introduce a new character? Or heck, pull a Rhodes and have a new actor play T'challa with the excuse of "I got a new haircut" or something like that. It's been done before. It could happen.

[Psyren]

I really don't get how being a spy somehow disqualifies Nakia from the job Showing that she's a skilled fighter and capable agent for Wakandan interests abroad even without the suit and powers, AND having an easy path to Wakandan royalty with a brief handwave (eg. mentioning an offscreen wedding having taken place), gives her all the qualifications needed.

I wouldn't be opposed to Killmonger either mind you, but I fear the narrative gymnastics required to bring him back in a meaningful way AND reform him away from his more extremist viewpoints might be too much.

[Ramza00]

One thing they could do with Black Panther 2 is set it in the 5 years of 2018 to 2023 for T’Challa was snapped as was Shuri. There was thus no royal family bloodline during this time and thus the kingdom was in a moment of legitimacy crisis and other leaders need to fill the void.

Black Panther and Civil War takes place in 2016 of the MCU timeline.

[Androgeus]

Or heck, pull a Rhodes and have a new actor play T'challa with the excuse of "I got a new haircut"

I feel a jokey wink to the audience would be a bit crass, given it was the previous actor dying that required the recast and not just the actor asking for too much money (and apparently Perlmutter being racist)

[Draconi Redfir]

I feel a jokey wink to the audience would be a bit crass, given it was the previous actor dying that required the recast and not just the actor asking for too much money (and apparently Perlmutter being racist)

then don't do that then. Just don't bring in Killmonger.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir
Oh lawd. Please don't bring back killmonger….

This. Killmonger was a murderous monster who didn’t care anything about Wakanda other than as a resource base for his personal crusade. Not a good fit.

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir
Or heck, pull a Rhodes and have a new actor play T'challa with the excuse of "I got a new haircut" or something like that. It's been done before.

Disney is on record that they won’t recast the character. Chadwick Boseman is too much a cultural icon; no one could live up to him, and it wouldn't be fair to his memory or another actor to make the attempt.

Originally Posted by Ramza00
One thing they could do with Black Panther 2 is set it in the 5 years of 2018 to 2023 for T’Challa was snapped as was Shuri. There was thus no royal family bloodline during this time and thus the kingdom was in a moment of legitimacy crisis and other leaders need to fill the void.

Good point. We don’t know if Queen Ramonda was Snapped, but if not, she could have served as Queen Dowager or the Wakandan equivalent.

We’ve also seen that Okoye was the one interfacing with Black Widow and the other surviving Avengers, which is more operations than leadership, so she probably stayed in her previous position. The obvious choice for ruling Wakanda during this period would be M’Baku, which would help explain why Wakandan technology didn’t swoop in and save the world after the Snap. Things are bleak the world over, and Wakanda doesn’t seem to have followed through on their promise to engage with other cultures. That sounds like something M’Baku would do.

[HolyDraconus]

This. Killmonger was a murderous monster who didn’t care anything about Wakanda other than as a resource base for his personal crusade. Not a good fit.



Disney is on record that they won’t recast the character. Chadwick Boseman is too much a cultural icon; no one could live up to him, and it wouldn't be fair to his memory or another actor to make the attempt.



Good point. We don’t know if Queen Ramonda was Snapped, but if not, she could have served as Queen Dowager or the Wakandan equivalent.

We’ve also seen that Okoye was the one interfacing with Black Widow and the other surviving Avengers, which is more operations than leadership, so she probably stayed in her previous position. The obvious choice for ruling Wakanda during this period would be M’Baku, which would help explain why Wakandan technology didn’t swoop in and save the world after the Snap. Things are bleak the world over, and Wakanda doesn’t seem to have followed through on their promise to engage with other cultures. That sounds like something M’Baku would do.

Eh, killmonger coming back wouldn’t be too hard. Honestly it would be a story to see how he copes in the role after talking to his ancestors in the afterlife.

[Draconi Redfir]

It might not be hard, but it just flat out should not be done. Killmonger is just... he's not a good character.

Not in the moral way either, he's obviously evil as heck. what i mean is that he's not at all interesting or compelling.

Two words.

That's it. That's his entire motivation.

Now don't get me wrong, Michal B Jordan was phenomenal, the character though... he was just so boring and forgettable. Klaue had something going, but they cut him out in the middle of the movie, so that came to a quick end.

[BRC]

It might not be hard, but it just flat out should not be done. Killmonger is just... he's not a good character.

Not in the moral way either, he's obviously evil as heck. what i mean is that he's not at all interesting or compelling.

Two words.

That's it. That's his entire motivation.

Now don't get me wrong, Michal B Jordan was phenomenal, the character though... he was just so boring and forgettable. Klaue had something going, but they cut him out in the middle of the movie, so that came to a quick end.

I think Killmonger was compelling, but that was at least 80% Michael B Jordan's performance, rather than the writing. There is the roots of an interesting, compelling character there, but they basically had to remove any nuance from the character in order to make him an unambiguous villain.

That said, since Michael B Jordan was able to carry the character on performance and charisma alone, if they DID resurrect Killmonger and rework him into a hero, I think Michael B Jordan could make it work. The end result would be a character that didn't make a lot of sense with the character we saw in Black Panther, but I don't think we'd care too much.

[Draconi Redfir]

they'd have to do a lot of work to make it viable. At least half a season of just redemption arc for sure. If they can nail it though... could be good, won't lie.

Would still prefer to see someone new in the position though.

[Cikomyr2]

I mean...

If you put in the work. You put in the story. You take care, you can bring back Erik Stevens and give him a redemption story where he learned form his mistakes, and realize that T'Challa's way was the best for him, Wakanda and the world. And try to lives up to T'Challa's memory.

But it'd be a long climb up, worthy of movies in of themselves. It's not a quick fix.

[Psyren]

Not in the moral way either, he's obviously evil as heck. what i mean is that he's not at all interesting or compelling.

This is unlikely to change your mind, but I think it's a safe bet that you're very, very far in the minority on this view. He frequently tops, or is near the top of, "best villain" lists - both for the MCU as a whole and even outside it.

[Draconi Redfir]

This is unlikely to change your mind, but I think it's a safe bet that you're very, very far in the minority on this view. He frequently tops, or is near the top of, "best villain" lists - both for the MCU as a whole and even outside it.

yeah i know, can't say i fully understand why though.

[JadedDM]

One thing they could do with Black Panther 2 is set it in the 5 years of 2018 to 2023 for T’Challa was snapped as was Shuri. There was thus no royal family bloodline during this time and thus the kingdom was in a moment of legitimacy crisis and other leaders need to fill the void.

I 100% love this idea. It fits really well, too, as they don't need T'Challa or Shuri's actors for it, and it can be used to set up Black Panther's successor for the third movie.

I still wonder, though, what they are going to do about T'Challa. As someone else pointed out, they have no intention of recasting him. So...he just dies off-screen or something?

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I still wonder, though, what they are going to do about T'Challa. As someone else pointed out, they have no intention of recasting him. So...he just dies off-screen or something?

If it was me I’d say he was assassinated offscreen and then the movie afterwards would be figuring out who did it and bringing them to justice. That would also allow one or more of his comics’ rogues gallery to be introduced, either as the culprit or as suspects.

[Draconi Redfir]

they might pull a star wars and digitally re-create T'challa's actor and/or use some edited stock footage. mix with stunt doubles and use of the costume's mask, and you could get a smooth on-screen death and memorial.

[Gallowglass]

If it was me IÂ’d say he was assassinated offscreen and then the movie afterwards would be figuring out who did it and bringing them to justice. That would also allow one or more of his comicsÂ’ rogues gallery to be introduced, either as the culprit or as suspects.

Man, that Black Panther has a bad history of dying

In Civil War, his dad dies in an assassination attempt he barely survives.
In his own movie, he almost dies, is assumed dead, and brought back from the brink of death
In infinity War he dies (snaps) and comes back in Endgame

So dying in the opening of the next movie seems about due for course.

***

Marvel has a bad track record (in my opinion) of dealing with the post-snap reality. I mean in Spider-man 2 it was waved away with basically a joke, then ignored while kids went on a field trip a few months post resurrection. We got some handwaving about Aunt May now working for a charity to help snappers get back to their lives, but no real evidence is seen on screen of long term ramifications. Just a bunch of kids on a European vacation like normal.

In Wandavision, we see Monica come back from the snap and some chaos at the hospital, but then everything's back to normal except she has a new boss when she should be the boss. So at least that's something.

My feeling is that the five years between snap and resurrection are NOT going to factor in any meaningful way in the next generation of movies beyond just in little ways (Cassie being older) And that includes being handwaved away in Black Panther 2. But we'll see.

Note: I'm not surprised or shocked it has little effect and is being largely ignored. It's a huge thing for non-Russo directors to have to shoehorn into the mythologies of their separate stories. This is about what I expected, but disappointed they didn't surprise me.

Although I do expect the time-shenanigans and loss of the infinity stones from the now and future to be the driving factor behind the next phase and the existence of the multiverse, that stuff is easy to write in. I just don't expect a bunch of drama about how impossible it would be to reincorporate 3.5 billion people back into a world where they were gone for five years. I mean, we can't find room for a few thousand refugees in the real world for crying out loud.

So, with my assumption that the five year gap won't factor in, this is what I expect from the second movie

At the end of the first movie, Wakanda has revealed itself to the world and is promising to bring its advanced technology out to help the world.

We get some pre action, pre first act scene setting information. Things are progressing but with impediments. Some countries resent Wakanda's interference and arrogance. Some countries fear this new first-world power that didn't exist a week ago as far as their security goes. Some countries demand more aid and grow over-dependant on Wakanda's help. Terrorist groups like Homefront with anti-black, nationalist bents start doing things like bombing Wakandan relief stations and distribution centers. Some countries take the technology they are shared, like vibranium power generators and turn them into weapons.

All of these was predictable and somewhat unavoidable and so there are factions within Wakanda like W'Kabe and T'challa's mother who lament that Wakanda ever broke their secret status acting as a counterweight to the progressive voices like Nakia, T'challa's bride and queen of Wakanda.

The movie then opens with a CGI suited version of T'Challa somewhere dealing with an expected strike against another distribution center or Wakandan hospital or something. Threats have leaked from one of the Nationalists groups (who will turn out to be the big bad for the movie). T'Challa is there to try and stop the attack.

We only see him in his CGI glory for the opening of the first act where we discover that this was a trap. T'Challa dies in an explosion just like his father, a trap from Flagsmasher or some similar white-supremist super-villain and his evil organization.

With T'challa dead, and Nakia pregnant with his son, there is division about who accends to the throne until the child is born. Should it be Nakia? Should it be Shuri?

T'Challa's mother becomes queen regent and starts withdrawing back from the world. The world killed her husband and now her son. She starts drawing back the help they've given and closing the borders again.

Nakia is the major voice and shifts to the main character. She knows this is wrong, now what T'Challa would've wanted and she has to fight the isolationism while at the same time, she, Shuri and Okoye investigate T'challa's murder and fight the bad guy organization who are now armed with Vibranium weapons they've stolen and have plans to come in, invade Wakanda and take everything.

With the heart shaped herb gone, Shuri enhances the black panther nanotech armor to provide some of the powers that are now gone, and over the course of the movie all three of them end up wearing the costume at one point or the other. (Shuri, Okoye and Nakia) leaving us to wonder who will eventually become the next black panther.

That get's answered in the third act when we find out Nakia has the powers of the black panther. She is getting them from T'challa's child in her womb. She becomes the Black Panther and beats the bad guy. She also gets vision quests into the place where dead black panther's go and get's a glimpse of a happy T'challa giving her the nod.

Shuri is able to extract the heart-shaped herb chemicals from the stem cells and use it to genetically engineer the plant back to existence. At the end of the movie, Nakia gives birth to T'Challa's son.

So why am I picking Nakia?

Okoye is cool just how she is. She doesn't need the upgrade, and she works better as the bodyguard IMO.

Shuri is a terrible choice. the Movie Shuri is nothing like the comic Shuri. She's better as the Q in the lab than as a field agent has shown no innate fighting ability AND the actress is has become a weird religious nut anti-vaccer so... no.

Nakia is a strong progressive interesting voice, a capable warrior, a hyper-competant spy. She's a natural for the role the movie thrusts on her.

I could easily write a way to bring Michael B Jordon back and make him the next black panther (which is still what I 60% expect to happen) but I like the idea of a female Black Panther. So sue me.

[Cikomyr2]

I am onboard for a female black panther.

[Draconi Redfir]

Marvel has a bad track record (in my opinion) of dealing with the post-snap reality.

*Snip*

... man, now I'm just upset that they rushed straight to endgame rather then make a few movies set in that five-year length of time. Would have been neat to see the post-blip world for a little bit. The tragedy of loss still carrying over a week after the event, the shifting politics and moving of families and resources, and the eventual settling in where everyone was just getting used to it before the hulk rapidly re-introduced everyone and everything back where they were. (or in the nearest safe place as confirmed by the directors.)

[Kareeah_Indaga]

... man, now I'm just upset that they rushed straight to endgame rather then make a few movies set in that five-year length of time. Would have been neat to see the post-blip world for a little bit. The tragedy of loss still carrying over a week after the event, the shifting politics and moving of families and resources, and the eventual settling in where everyone was just getting used to it before the hulk rapidly re-introduced everyone and everything back where they were. (or in the nearest safe place as confirmed by the directors.)

There is absolutely no reason they couldn’t make a prequel movie taking place during the Blip. They backtracked for Black Widow and Captain Marvel after all, and I think at least part of Eternals is supposed to be in the past as well.

[Psyren]

I mean, before Endgame came out we didn't even know there would be a timeskip. Making additional movies to stick in there would be a non-starter. (Other media though...)

yeah i know, can't say i fully understand why though.

Sympathetic motives, powerful delivery, memetic lines, unmistakable swagger, and an iconic exit... yeah, can't imagine why people like the guy

[Draconi Redfir]

Sympathetic motives, powerful delivery, memetic lines, unmistakable swagger, and an iconic exit... yeah, can't imagine why people like the guy

But like... he's just so dull?

His entire motivation is "Some people i don't know who didn't know i existed killed my terrorist of a father and left me behind. Everything they own is mine now" and his goal is "Racism is bad. lets fix it by causing a gaddang race war."




idk man i guess i can understand wanting to confront the people who made you an orphan, especially if you didn't understand that your dad was a bad person but like... How is dumping a giant vat of acid on a bunch of people going to fix the problem of "Too many people are suffering acid burns"?

Klaue at least had that cool arm that shot plasma blasts out of it, and had an actual personality and a goal that made sense, wanting to get more vibranium to keep business on the black market. AND he wouldn't have been just another "same VS same" fight.

Honestly though, the best Villain for Black Panther? Black Manta from the Aquaman movie. That guy would have been a kickass villain. Sadly Black Manta is DC and not Marvel. So alas.

[Psyren]

In his view, the war is already happening. His goal was to arm his side so they could win.

And that is really all I can say on that subject on this forum. Again, my goal isn't to change your mind, just to try and point out why your viewpoint is so far removed from, well, most other people who have seen that movie apparently.

[Draconi Redfir]

ehh. wouldn't be the first time, I'm a known contrarian.

Not that i dislike the guy because other people like him of course. i just thought he was really dull and forgettable with a lousy evil scheme.

[BRC]

ehh. wouldn't be the first time, I'm a known contrarian.

Not that i dislike the guy because other people like him of course. i just thought he was really dull and forgettable with a lousy evil scheme.

That's normal for MCU villains. At least he had some charisma and Panache.

[Draconi Redfir]

All i'm gunna say is this.

Killmonger:
-No chemistry with Protagonist (Doesn't even know who he is)
-Only Antagonizes because Protagonist has stuff he wants
-Personal grudge is with a dead man, and doesn't even seem too concerned about that
-Only goal is to start a race war
-Stole the Protagonist's powers and copied them exactly, only minor aesthetic changes
-Barely has a plan on anything he's doing. just "Give people guns" "???" "Profit!" with little to no thoughts or plans on during or afterwards.
-Dude's just bloodthirsty for bloodthirsty's sake.

Black Manta:
-Personal Vendetta with Protagonist and knows who he is (Protagonist personally involved in preventable death of his father)
-Antagonizes Protagonist because he's been wronged by Protagonist.
-Personal grudge is with Protagonist.
-Goal is to get revenge against Protagonist before returning to normal life, be that living comfortably, making / selling weapons, or piracy, not sure.
-Took Technology tangentially related to Protagonist that Protagonist himself does not use, Tony-stark'ed it into his own unique thing.
-Resulting powers are completely different from Protagonists. Results in Protagonist needing to think outside the box to stop him.
-Doesn't really need a plan for after defeating Protagonist? isn't really doing anything global-spanning. Will probably take his new tech and play around with it for a bit.
-Not needlessly bloodthirsty, only aggressive to the one who wronged him, works well with others.


Result: Black Manta > Killmonger.

Someone find an alternate reality where DC's Black Manta was the antagonist of Marvel's Black Panther. I'd pay triple to see that movie.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
If it was me I’d say he was assassinated offscreen and then the movie afterwards would be figuring out who did it and bringing them to justice.

Most likely they’ll leave it as vague as possible. As tragic as Boseman’s death was, it will have been at least a couple years in the past by the time the second movie is out, and Ryan Coogler et al. will probably want to keep a respectful distance. Making the character’s death nothing more than a plot device would almost certainly seem disrespectful.

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir
they might pull a star wars and digitally re-create T'challa's actor and/or use some edited stock footage. mix with stunt doubles and use of the costume's mask, and you could get a smooth on-screen death and memorial.

Disney won’t be doing any of this—they’ve already made that plain.

Originally Posted by Gallowglass
I just don't expect a bunch of drama about how impossible it would be to reincorporate 3.5 billion people back into a world where they were gone for five years.

This has been one of the most glaring oversights of the entire Snap scenario. By rights there should have been a complete collapse of food production immediately after the Snap, with famines taking a heavy toll around the world.

Once food production restabilized for a smaller population, it would be overwhelmed by billions of new mouths to feed, and there would be another round of famines, probably worse.

Originally Posted by BRC
I think Killmonger was compelling, but that was at least 80% Michael B Jordan's performance, rather than the writing.

I’d say it’s about 95% the performance. MBJ brought some style to a very one-dimensional character, but that character exists to be the polar opposite of T’Challa and his vision of progressive engagement with the world. Without T’Challa, there’s not much point to Killmonger.

Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir
Killmonger:

Agree with all your points here, and you’re not alone in your take on the character.

[Zalabim]

Spoiler: Episode 8-Really a spoiler-

Show

So you're telling me that antagonizing a being of god-like power was a necessary step in your plan?

I said to my friend weeks ago: Agnes is a witch and she taught Wanda magic. So I'm happy and surprised.