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2019-05-02, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-05-02 at 10:01 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-02, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
That you're pretending to miss the obvious just because it is not outright spelled out in imagery in order to try and strengthen your position somehow is just sad. What do you think happens to the vast majority of women that leave the houses they were forced into by their family at crossbow point and do not flee? What makes you think that it would be different for then-commoner Hilgya?
And her self-criticism was of her attempts on Ivan's life, not of anything else.
Death and Hel to Hilgya's clan, minus her and Kudzu.
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2019-05-02, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2019-05-02 at 10:06 AM.
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2019-05-02, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Link it, then. Give me a link to the effect that Hilgya's family would not go after her as a commoner. Give me a link to the effect that Hilgya merely "chose" to flee her homeland and there was no risk for her at the time, from the people that married her off at crossbow point.
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2019-05-02, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Remember the part where she said she just up and left?
Originally Posted by Hilgya“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Keltest; 2019-05-02 at 10:11 AM.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Oh, so NOW inference and deduction matter? And NOW Hilgya's words should be taken as the absolute truth?
When she talked about the locks and chains, she was a liar. But when she says she abandoned and ran away from the sexual traffickers, she's not only being fully truthful, there is nothing else to be inferred from her statement as well?
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2019-05-02, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
SpoilerSo, I guess Rich seen Avengers Endgame after all?Spoiler
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2019-05-02, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-05-02, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-02, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Of course, i am speaking from the perspective of a occidental, real life, XXI century white male human. I am aware that the question can vary if you change any of these circumstances.
It is my opinion that there is no proportion between forced marriage (again it is an horrible crime) and murder. My opinion will change if there is some degree of violence from the husband.
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2019-05-02, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-05-02, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
How about you provide some actual proof instead of unsubstantiated assertions? She says she just up and left, and weve seen no consequences to doing so, nor anybody attempting to inflict them. Indeed, Ivan wasn't even aware she was gone, so its entirely possible her family never found out or cared, if they considered the matter settled after the ceremony. Youre the one insisting it had to have happened this way, so prove it.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
They were willing to kill her over it (remember that crossbow?). What on Earth makes you think they wouldn't be willing to kill her to get her back into the house with the moron?
They are clearly evil enough to force a woman to marry someone. Ergo, they are more than evil enough to enforce that.
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2019-05-02, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-05-02, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-05-02, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Willing to threaten is for sure, if the crossbow was a real thing and not a literary allusion. We'll go wtih real so "willing to threaten" (both Hilgya and Ivan) as given.
But might they have been bluffing about the killing bit! As the possible bluff was never called, we do not know.
I honestly don't think you understand people, and political/clan alliances formed by arranged marriages. Go read up on some medieval and feudal history. The marriage being accomplished fulfills the agreement/treaty/arrangement (usually to do with land) between the two families.
I'd also suggest that you do some research into how Indian cultures (in the sub continent/south asia) handle arranged marriages. It appears that this is still happening in our day and age in some places.
See also the Royal House of Japan and Imperial China (Pre Sun Yat Sen) for the past few centuries: check out the marriage arrangements there too.
Each culture/sub culture has it own norms and mores for that, so I'd take a not too large leap here and suggest that the dwarves in OoTS land have their own particular norms and mores for such things.
What on Earth makes you think they wouldn't be willing to kill her to get her back into the house with the moron?They are clearly evil enough to force a woman to marry someone. Ergo, they are more than evil enough to enforce that.
The details are unknown, but the 'enforcing' through killing' is unlikely, per my points above.
The idea of 'enforcing through tracking down and more or less kidnapping and bringing back' is more likely, as in that case the onther clan can't claim a breech. As the details of their norms on this have neve been on screen, we are all guessing somewhat. (Still a raw deal if you are Hilgya, so she fled since she valued her freedom more than being a part of that clan).
Yet you make assertions as though they are absolute truths. That body of assumptions and assertions that are leaps into the unknown.
It doesn't help your argument.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-05-02 at 10:45 AM.
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Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2019-05-02, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
"Easier than killing Ivan" doesn't necessarily mean "effortless." One can imagine a harrowing, somewhat low-level adventure that involves Hilgya evading bounty hunters until she reached the frontier of the Dwarven Lands (that is, apparently, the surface).
You might object that any conceivable adventure is more difficult than killing Ivan, but that's a claim you'd have to prove.
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2019-05-02, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
The. Author. Says. The. Crossbow. Is. Real.
As for the political alliances, it doesn't matter. Her clan married her off because it wanted to. And you'll notice that every single one of your assertions debunks Keltest's claim that the sexual traffickers that married her off would simply let it be.
No, the point of the scene was tht she was fleeing a bunch of sexual traffickers that married her off because they felt like it. That's how absolutely every forced marriage works; why would it be different in Hilgya's?
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2019-05-02, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread