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2013-01-19, 03:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PEACH)
A recent remark in a discussion about Paladins and pre-fall warnings suggested using K: Religion checks instead of the Phylactery of Faithfulness. I like that idea, so here's a start.
Check
In addition to the usual rules for Knowledge: Religion checks, a character may consider proposed courses of action briefly to determine whether they are likely to go against a divine patron's wishes or code of conduct, especially their own. This check depends on the information available to the character, and as such does not prevent, for example, a paladin from slaying an innocent character due to an unperceived illusion; however, such actions are likely to be considered more leniently anyway.
DC Question or Problem 15 Will this action cause an immediate change of alignment? 20 Is this action absolutely forbidden by a given religion, such that it could cause an immediate fall? +5 Does this action tend toward falling or changing alignments eventually? +5 Resolve an ethical conundrum between two or more actions and inaction, any of which might have bad results
A failed check means you can't think of any reason this would be a bad idea, whether or not it's actually acceptable.
Action
Determining whether a proposed course of action is likely to follow a divine patron's wishes is a move action. You may make a more rapid estimate as a swift action at a penalty of -5 to your check, or as a free action at a penalty of -10; alternatively, by spending a full-round action you may make the check with a bonus of +5.
Special
A character attempting to determine the suitability of an action for their own divine patron's code or wishes gains a +5 bonus to their check. (This does not apply to standards of alignment, which are more universal.)
Try Again
Not usually, although the same situation will almost never arise exactly the same way again.
My prose is a bit turgid right now for some reason, I'll probably have to go back and edit it later.Last edited by TuggyNE; 2014-04-01 at 04:15 AM. Reason: Fixing tables
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-01-19, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Long Shiny Cloud-land
- Gender
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
I'd suggest opening this up to anyone with Know (Religion), perhaps making the DC five higher and granting +5 for checks relating to your patron deity (which, let's face it, makes much more sense anyway).
If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.
I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.
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2013-01-19, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
Hmm, I guess.
perhaps making the DC five higher and granting +5 for checks relating to your patron deity (which, let's face it, makes much more sense anyway).
Done.Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-01-19, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
why does this take a meaningful action, unlike ... every other knowledge check to know a thing?
suggest failure: you determine that the action is acceptable regardless of its actual acceptability, cannot recheck until bonus has gone up?Last edited by sreservoir; 2013-01-19 at 10:03 PM.
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2013-01-19, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
My instinct is because it takes longer than a fraction of a second to figure out most interesting ethical/moral problems. (It's an analysis of a situation, not merely a set of factoids.) In point of fact, that's probably way underestimating the time frame, but oh well!
I might bump it back down to a swift, though.
suggest failure: you determine that the action is acceptable regardless of its actual acceptability, cannot recheck until bonus has gone up?Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-01-21, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Hiding and fleeing.
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
This looks pretty good, but you could add an option to rush it as a swift, free or non-action (whichever you think is appropriate) with a penalty to the check. Perhaps not the -10 common to Diplomacy and the like, but maybe -5? Allows for it normally being something you wouldn't "just know", but also for it to be more useful in situations where a move action is too long (such as combat). Could even raise the basic action needed, then, and maybe add a passive option for the DM to roll (as with Spot checks and the like) with the penalty, with the option for the player to actively make a check (at whatever action cost they're comfortable with taking the penalty for).
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2013-01-21, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Location
- Malsheem, Nessus
- Gender
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
You might consider expanding it past "Will X action break my code of conduct?" into a doctrinal analysis, i.e. "Does X action go against the teachings of Y religion?" or "What does Y religion have to say on X belief?" That makes it valuable for more than just clerics, paladins, and druids, since it could also be used to help impersonate someone of another religion and other things like that.
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2013-01-21, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
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2013-01-23, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-01-23, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
I'd say the K:religion check should indeed be able to give you the same information as the phylactery, so I'm all in favor of letting that be one of the things a K:R check can answer. Lord knows all the various knowledge skills could use a usefulness buff since almost all the suggestions/examples in the books are unbelievably lame, with DCs unreasonably high or the answers far too vague.
But I'm still not sure why the original commenter hates the phylacteries. The wearer is burning a gear slot to insure against failed checks and the nasty consequences that come with it, and thats more than a fair trade in my book. The only reason that readily occurs to me for hating the phylacties is the infalability of them for any character who thinks to use theirs, and a DM who objects to a thoughtful player not violating his religion or code is a DM whose motives need careful scrutiny...\'Twas brillig, and the slithey toves....
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2013-01-23, 01:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Turning Phylactery of Faithfulness into Knowledge: Religion checks (3.5 skill, PE
I believe they were objecting to the problem that some DMs will make every effort to make a paladin fall, and even disallow "metagaming" to avoid fall-worthy actions unless they have the Phylactery (which was designed as a last-ditch "see, the rules tell you you have to give me a warning before blowing up my character" tool).
In other words, not so much the Phylactery itself, but the necessity of it in some games.Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity