MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

[Crusher]

Also the most common consent is that MitD can't be heavily templated. Because with enough templates, nearly anything can be MitD. So the idea is not that it is a template1 template2 template3 XYZ, but just simple a XYZ. The more stuff you need to alter the XYZ the more unlikely it is, because then it would be more and more something Rich would have invented and not something someone else did come up with.

Speaking of templates, did we ever finish figuring out the minimum required collection of templates for MitD to actually be a templated potted plant? I've been out of town for a number of weeks with extremely intermittent internet access so I've missed a bit.

[Jaklefire]

Also a question, why isn't Zodar listed under the Fit the Big Scenes column?
It is a pretty likely guess and it fits the tower scene and the escape scene. It also makes sense that they would be surprised that it talks. You know why the Zodar is a good idea Grey Wolf and you know why it isn't, so I'm just going to stop here.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Speaking of templates, did we ever finish figuring out the minimum required collection of templates for MitD to actually be a templated potted plant? I've been out of town for a number of weeks with extremely intermittent internet access so I've missed a bit.

I never published it, but I did find a way to at least boost something's HD to stratospheric levels without unduly increasing its size, which would give access to some high-level powers (a lot of templates restrict powers by HD).

I never published it because it turns out that by RAW, potted plants are objects, not creatures, and thus are not eligible to be templated. I kept thinking I should just write up a potted plant, based on the rat, to start me off, but I kept putting it off, and then some other shiny thing must have distracted me.

Edit:

Also a question, why isn't Zodar listed under the Fit the Big Scenes column?
It is a pretty likely guess and it fits the tower scene and the escape scene. It also makes sense that they would be surprised that it talks. You know why the Zodar is a good idea Grey Wolf and you know why it isn't, so I'm just going to stop here.

Because it does not fit the Big Scene that is the circus. The work-around involving ignoring official art and parts of the fluff and instead base it on the exoskeleton was the brainchild of Lord Bingo, and I kept thinking that making an exception for Zodar would open a can of worms that would make the FBS category explode ("if zodar can make up his own description of its look, why can't X do so to?"). Thankfully, Lord Bingo was happy with the zodar not being in the FBS, so it simply went into the suggestion list.

Like with the drama thing, just keep in mind that I wear two hats. Just because I personally like the zodar, and find it to be a great go-to example for a lot of arguments, that doesn't mean that curator-me likes it.

Grey Wolf

[Tathum]

I would hesitate to think Rich would have made MitD a templated creature, at least a heavily templated one.

I think that would fall into the category of something he made up himself.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I would hesitate to think Rich would have made MitD a templated creature, at least a heavily templated one.

I think that would fall into the category of something he made up himself.

That's my feeling on the issue, as well. But a large number of people disagree - they feel that a single template (particularly of the type that doesn't indicate mixed blood, such as the pseudonatural template) would not break the "someone made it up" clause nor the "can be figured out" clause.

Grey Wolf

[Coat]

This idea that MitD's species must be dramatic, and thus recognisable (btw, I also disagree with that causal relationship right there) has been proposed at least a dozen times by now. Its major flaw is that OotS is character-driven, not rules-driven. Who the hell cares what MitD species is? Do you think Xykon, or O-Chul, or Roy care? Do you think that it will be "more dramatic" if it is a souped-up minotaur than if he is a zodar? Why?

I'll try and explain why I think it matters a little - to me, at least.

If I don't know more about the MitD and what it can do when it emerges from the darkness than when it was still hidden, then what was the point of the darkness?

That's the poor storytelling that I think the non-DnD players might be trying to get at. Certainly that's the root of why it matters to me.

If the MitD is a Vodar, then why hide him in darkness to begin with? No-one, outside a small percentage of players, will know what a Vodar is and can do, so even revealed its story-telling role is the same. It's just as much a mysterious powerful figure behind Xykon as it was when cloaked in shadows.

If the MitD was Godzilla (I'm not suggesting it is, it's just the Big G is probably the world's No 1 most recognisable monster) then the moment it steps out of the shadows, anyone reading knows exactly how dangerous it is, what it can do, what it's vulnerable to. The power of the reveal is stronger, because when the Monster is revealed the Giant reveals actual information to the majority of the readers, not just a tiny few.

It's not a very strong argument - power of the forum to disseminate knowledge, DnD focus back in the day, etc - but I think it is a valid one, and one that is easier to overlook when you're more familiar with the DnD back catalogue, and almost any creature reveal would provide actual information.

On the other hand, I've been racking my brains for a mythological or pop culture monster that might fit, and come up with nothing, so the argument achieves nothing.


Oh, and I don't see how it can be a Vodar because from the description you linked it only gets to speak 3 times in its lifetime - or at least, that's how I read it. Unless that explains why it's unusual to hear one speaking.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Oh, and I don't see how it can be a Vodar because from the description you linked it only gets to speak 3 times in its lifetime - or at least, that's how I read it. Unless that explains why it's unusual to hear one speaking.

Got it in one. We are looking for creatures that would be surprising to see talking: i.e. the SBGH's comment is a lampshade of the fact that the base species would not normally speak. The Zodar matches this perfectly precisely because they can only speak three times in their lifetime, and thus the fact that MitD keeps prattling on about whatever is in his mind is indeed surprising.

EDIT:

If I don't know more about the MitD and what it can do when it emerges from the darkness than when it was still hidden, then what was the point of the darkness?

But you will know more about MitD and what it can do after it emerges from the darkness than you do while it is still hidden, even if you cannot name his species.

This is at two levels. First, the reveal is not just for the readers. It will also be for, you know, the actual characters in the comic. How Roy and V react to revealed!MitD will give you a lot of new information about MitD, even if you have been following this thread.

But lets say that, somehow, you don't think that the fact it will be a big reveal to Roy and V (who are the most likely to recognise MitD on sight) matters. Lets say that I agree with your base position that the only thing that matters is that the reader, not the characters, recognise MitD.

A name is just a tag. There is many, many ways of giving you clues about how MitD is powerful with drawing alone. Even if you have no idea what a sand elemental is, the drawing clues in the comic should tell you how dangerous it is in 901 and then reinforced in 902. Even if you don't know the name "sand elemental", you will have a fairly accurate idea of the kind of things that will hurt him and the ones that won't.

Let me give you an example based exclusively on Zodar and Protean. Lets say they are the only two candidates, and the reveal comes, and it is one or the other - but you have never heard of either, or of this thread.

Option A, MitD is a large thing with a black exoskeleton that is disgustingly insectoid. You will then know that Miko and Belkar just couldn't penetrate that exoskeleton - it must be very, very hard. Roy may have to use blunt objects, rather than his greatsword.

Option B, MitD is a mass of tentacles and other yucky stuff, and his model changes in every panel. You then know that Miko's problem was fast regeneration. Roy may need to use fire/salt/acid/etc. to attack it, or just keep chopping at tentacles as they appear.

Notice how many of the MitD unknowns can be shown, rather than told, through drawing clues alone. Yes, you might not be able to put a name tag on the thing, but Rich is a great storyteller, so you will know that MitD is to be feared, and once you see what it looks like, you will be closer to understand why and how it should be feared.

As I said, this idea that the enjoyment of the reveal is contingent on recognising the creature, when so many weird things have been drawn in the comic with no-one shouting "But I don't know what this thing is! This comic is terrible!" tells me that knowing the name of the thing is quite irrelevant.

Yours,

Grey Wolf

[happycrow]

Apologies if this has been done before and I missed it... but what about Juiblex (or a "division" of it), with character development?

[DaggerPen]

Well, Google images for Juiblex certainly turns up a horrifying-looking enough creature, though the eye configuration is totally wrong. Do you have a list of stats? I couldn't turn any up.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Apologies if this has been done before and I missed it... but what about Juiblex (or a "division" of it), with character development?

Please don't do drive-by posts. If you really think this creature is a good candidate, tells us why.

Also, how hard is it to check the first post to see if a creature has been suggested before?

GW

[happycrow]

Cranky little guy, aren't you?

There are 7 whole threads of this stuff, so I don't know what's been discounted or not.

So, random arguments Pro for you.
1. HIDEOUSLY UGLY
2. His "Dad" would be a "big eater" - sort of epic understatement there
3. Psionic powers would be a given
4. Not dependent on 3.5 and so compatible with "hardly ever check it any more"
5. Moldy hamburgers are absolutely no problem.
6. Physical strength negotiable with moments of "epic-omg" absolutely plausible.
7. Absolutely not expected to show up in a rainforest or speak common.
8. Genius intellect

[DaggerPen]

Cranky little guy, aren't you?

There are 7 whole threads of this stuff, so I don't know what's been discounted or not.

So, random arguments Pro for you.
1. HIDEOUSLY UGLY
2. His "Dad" would be a "big eater" - sort of epic understatement there
3. Psionic powers would be a given
4. Not dependent on 3.5 and so compatible with "hardly ever check it any more"
5. Moldy hamburgers are absolutely no problem.
6. Physical strength negotiable with moments of "epic-omg" absolutely plausible.
7. Absolutely not expected to show up in a rainforest or speak common.
8. Genius intellect

*sigh*

You don't have to read all 7 threads. You just have to go to the "suggested monsters" section, go down to the j section, and see if it's there. I took two seconds to do it for you before I went to google to try to turn up the stats.

Speaking of which - I went to google to turn up the stats and couldn't. This happens for a decent amount of monsters, which is why we like people to provide them. Heck, I'm not even sure what Juiblex is, beyond apparently some type of demon lord.

Don't be a jerk because someone asked you to elaborate on your suggestion.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Cranky little guy, aren't you?

I've spent many, many hours ensuring that the first post is a comprehensive list of every creature ever discussed. So yes, I'm rather cranky that you can't take even five minutes to do a basic search of an alphabetised list.

So, random arguments Pro for you.
1. HIDEOUSLY UGLY
2. His "Dad" would be a "big eater" - sort of epic understatement there
3. Psionic powers would be a given
4. Not dependent on 3.5 and so compatible with "hardly ever check it any more"
5. Moldy hamburgers are absolutely no problem.
6. Physical strength negotiable with moments of "epic-omg" absolutely plausible.
7. Absolutely not expected to show up in a rainforest or speak common.
8. Genius intellect

OK, given the lack of actual support, I'll go with "can't explain the escape." Also, "not strong enough, if his strength is 'negotiable' since he was trying to hit light" and "can't be Good".

Edit: can someone check Dungeon magazine #188 to see if we can get some hard stats? This suggests it can be found there

Edit 2: That might be the 4E version. A different webpage reference page 67-68 of Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss

GW

[pwning doodes]

Cranky little guy, aren't you?

To be perfectly honest, Grey Wolf, you do come across quite harshly sometimes. It is completely understandable given all the annoying arguments and behaviors you've had to deal with before now, but to somebody without that context it can sound "cranky". It would be nice if you could try to be a bit more forgiving, at least to first time offenders. Just to be clear, I think you are an awesome curator for this thread. Without you, we would have pages and pages of opinionated discussions instead of a neatly compiled list and logical, reasoned arguments. All I'm saying is that you could go about it a bit more kindly.

P.S. Long time reader but first time poster of this thread. Hi, everybody!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

To be perfectly honest, Grey Wolf, you do come across quite harshly sometimes. It is completely understandable given all the annoying arguments and behaviors you've had to deal with before now, but to somebody without that context it can sound "cranky". It would be nice if you could try to be a bit more forgiving, at least to first time offenders. Just to be clear, I think you are an awesome curator for this thread. Without you, we would have pages and pages of opinionated discussions instead of a neatly compiled list and logical, reasoned arguments. All I'm saying is that you could go about it a bit more kindly.

Yes, I know - but don't be afraid to call me out on it when you feel it is getting out of hand. I normally aren't doing it on purpose, I just come over across as harsh even when I'm aiming for "dry, librarian" tones. I also tend to mellow as the thread gets longer, because I can accept that when a thread is past 20-ish pages, the temptation to skip all those pages and go directly to the last one is quite large. But starting a new thread is a particularly bad time for me, because it inevitably means that my latest binge of thread update is still fresh in my mind, always a stressing time, and they really have no excuse to skip a mere handful of pages.

Now, this of course doesn't apply in my latest bout. I was cranky. Any intro post that strongly suggests someone just skipped all the hard work I put into the first post is going to make me cranky, made worse by it being a drive-by posting. But on the other hand, my post answering Priceguy wasn't meant to be anything other than my counter arguments to the drama proposition, and even though I went over it several times to try my best to make it non-threatening, I still managed to put my foot in my mouth.

The tricky thing here, I suspect, is that what makes me a good curator (my rational mind) is also what gets me in trouble (my opposition to subjective argumentation). Catch 22 is a bitch. (That said, it doesn't actually excuse my behaviour. I am supposed to be trying to catch myself. It's not like I can claim ignorance of the problem)

Grey Wolf

[Throknor]

As I said, this idea that the enjoyment of the reveal is contingent on recognising the creature, when so many weird things have been drawn in the comic with no-one shouting "But I don't know what this thing is! This comic is terrible!" tells me that knowing the name of the thing is quite irrelevant.

Or the flumphs. They're a running gag that many readers probably weren't familiar with and newer readers probably still aren't if they don't read the boards. Without knowing what they are it's possible to pick up that they are soft, out-of-place, and not particularly dangerous. They're even revealed to be not evil.

Obviously, the salient points of MITD's relevant abilities and characteristics will come out much faster in-comic, but personally I think it will work in its role even without a single character literally naming its species. Granted, if it appears in-comic without an explicit naming I do expect that someone would be able to name it in the corresponding thread, but not that it would be absolutely necessary to the story.

[Throknor]

The tricky thing here, I suspect, is that what makes me a good curator (my rational mind) is also what gets me in trouble (my opposition to subjective argumentation). Catch 22 is a bitch. (That said, it doesn't actually excuse my behaviour. I am supposed to be trying to catch myself. It's not like I can claim ignorance of the problem)

Grey Wolf

Sometimes straight honesty is harsh. If I may, the point you've been trying to make is that all suggestions are welcome if they at least try to address the points that have been made over the years. When someone comes in with a 'What about Bob?' suggestion, your choices seem to be a simple 'No' for which you'll just get called out on for being mean or spending your time research and refuting the qualities that would make an actual discussion. Neither seems good.

Maybe make a simple template to reply to drive-bys with. Something like:
1) How did XXXXX punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt XXXXX?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize XXXXX?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing XXXXX?
5) How did XXXXX teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

That puts the onus of the research right back on them. If they can at least answer those with any kind of thought a discussion can begin, if they can't no harm done.

For example, if I suggested 'Grey Wolf_c', I'd have to come back with:
1) How did Grey_Wolf_c punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
- She suggested a Tarrasque should be added, and her horse said Snarl Jr. An adrenaline-fueled rage took over.

2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt Grey_Wolf_c ?
- Maintaining these threads has made him impervious to pain.

3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize Grey_Wolf_c ?
- He doesn't have time to keep up his appearance so looks like a human-sasquatch mix wearing clothing.

4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing Grey_Wolf_c ?
- No time to shower either.

5) How did Grey_Wolf_c teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?
- Well, you got me there.

[DaggerPen]

Sometimes straight honesty is harsh. If I may, the point you've been trying to make is that all suggestions are welcome if they at least try to address the points that have been made over the years. When someone comes in with a 'What about Bob?' suggestion, your choices seem to be a simple 'No' for which you'll just get called out on for being mean or spending your time research and refuting the qualities that would make an actual discussion. Neither seems good.

Maybe make a simple template to reply to drive-bys with. Something like:
1) How did XXXXX punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Bendar's weapons hurt XXXXX?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize XXXXX?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing XXXXX?
5) How did XXXXX teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

That puts the onus of the research right back on them. If they can at least answer those with any kind of thought a discussion can begin, if they can't no harm done.

For example, if I suggested 'Grey Wolf_c', I'd have to come back with:
1) How did Grey_Wolf_c punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
- She suggested a Tarrasque should be added, and her horse said Snarl Jr. An adrenaline-fueled rage took over.

2) Why didn't Miko or Bendar's weapons hurt Grey_Wolf_c ?
- Maintaining these threads has made him impervious to pain.

3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize Grey_Wolf_c ?
- He doesn't have time to keep up his appearance so looks like a human-sasquatch mix wearing clothing.

4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing Grey_Wolf_c ?
- No time to shower either.

5) How did Grey_Wolf_c teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?
- Well, you got me there.

I laughed.

And yeah, while it's ultimately Grey_Wolf's call, the template response seems like a good idea, and if he doesn't use it I might steal it for the few times I can respond to a poster first. XD

[Bird]

The template is a cool idea.

2) Why didn't Miko or Bendar's weapons hurt Grey_Wolf_c ?

In Bendar's case, it's probably because he was too drunk. Or not drunk enough. I forget how it works with him.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Maybe make a simple template to reply to drive-bys with. Something like:
1) How did XXXXX punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Bendar's weapons hurt XXXXX?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize XXXXX?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing XXXXX?
5) How did XXXXX teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

See, but if I have something like this, the temptation is oh-so-strong to make it snarky by always posting it as:

Hello, [Poster Name]

1) How did [insert suggestion here] punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

Grey Wolf

[Rakoa]

See, but if I have something like this, the temptation is oh-so-strong to make it snarky by always posting it as:

Hello, [Poster Name]

1) How did [insert suggestion here] punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

Grey Wolf

I love you for your snark and hard work. Go for it, I say.

[ChristianSt]

See, but if I have something like this, the temptation is oh-so-strong to make it snarky by always posting it as:

Hello, [Poster Name]

1) How did [insert suggestion here] punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

Grey Wolf

I think you should include:

6) Please provide some link to [insert suggestion here].

Maybe you should try it from time to time and see which way works better? But with information filled out, and think it would be better to sum up some points to simple: Why does it fit for the big scenes (circus, tower, teleport)? and/or: Why is your proposal more likely than the heavily templated plotted plant?

[Throknor]

See, but if I have something like this, the temptation is oh-so-strong to make it snarky by always posting it as:

Hello, [Poster Name]

1) How did [insert suggestion here] punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

Grey Wolf

Maybe save the snark for the one's that specifically state they haven't read anything, and give the ones that otherwise present something new the benefit of the doubt. Having a set response should still help push it back without having to worry about a perceived attitude when doing so. Especially if there's a 4D 'Preferred New Suggestion Format' section in the first page.

I know it's my idea, but I think I've talked myself into it. Suggestions get sidetracked into 'attitude' discussions way more frequently than they really should. Having a canned response would also help when anyone else responds, and discussions veer into even broader areas.

But it's out there, so I'll let it go for now. Other than to say now I'm tempted to pull for the reveal being a grey wolf snagging the umbrella and running off with it, but the comic is way past that level of silliness.

[Peelee]

I would just like to note here that I no longer believe the MitD is Zoidberg and have shifted my faith to the belief he is, in fact, Grey Wolf. I believe the abovementioned list is enough reasoning. The Escape scene is currently inexplicable, but I'll peg that on us not currently knowing that Grey Wolf can do that, though it is well in his range of powers. I can even provide a link!

[Forbiddenwar]

I would just like to note here that I no longer believe the MitD is Zoidberg and have shifted my faith to the belief he is, in fact, Grey Wolf. I believe the abovementioned list is enough reasoning. The Escape scene is currently inexplicable, but I'll peg that on us not currently knowing that Grey Wolf can do that, though it is well in his range of powers. I can even provide a link!

Come clean, Mr Grey_Wolf_c!
Are you now or ever have been the MitD? You can't keep this information hidden forever!


Edit: on second thought, the link you provided showed Grey wolf was created in 2007,

Join Date: 08-14-2007

which sadly, makes it after strip 100. It was a good try though.

[Holy_Knight]

I have thought for some time that Kraagor's Gate would provide a good dramatic setting for MiTD to reveal itself. Given that the Gate is guarded by the most powerful monsters imaginable, then if MiTD is not a one-off monster it would seem entirely that there will be another of its kind there. With The Giant's style, there are a lot of possibilities for a dramatic reveal by the MiTD of itself there, perhaps as O-Chul is being threatened by the monster. It is also sufficiently close to what I imagine will be the climax of the plotline to be a possibility. I could, of course, be completely wrong.

No, I think this a very reasonable idea. I've thought the same for quite some time. It also has the advantage of contributing to the MiTD's own character development, as he doesn't know what he is, either.

I can't really say Rich "kept hyping the mystery". Nobody in the comic seems to be curious about what MitD is. And the other solution would be just to reveal MitD as soon as possible (which just would be wrong imo) or Rich changed what MitD was to follow a mainstream (I certainly don't think Rich would do that, and even if we would think that, the thread can only really operate under the assumption that Rich tells the truth)If you need to argue something like that, then MitD can possible be anything (maybe by surviving the Snarl he also gained some supernatural abilities? Perhaps he is a plotted plant?)Also the most common consent is that MitD can't be heavily templated. Because with enough templates, nearly anything can be MitD. So the idea is not that it is a template1 template2 template3 XYZ, but just simple a XYZ. The more stuff you need to alter the XYZ the more unlikely it is, because then it would be more and more something Rich would have invented and not something someone else did come up with.

Actually, I think O-Chul seems pretty interested in that when he is going to be debriefed by Hinjo after the escape. Belkar and Haley have seemed to express at least some interest as well during their encounter with him. And the MiTD himself is interested in being revealed, as shown by his desire to get out of the shadows on several occasions.

Certainly. But also, it is playing the odds. Think of the nature of the comic at around #100. How likely, really, is that Rich did not pick a D&D monster at the time? As always, the thread is not about to just ignore non-D&D creatures without strong evidence that we should, but being honest with ourselves, I think that the chance of MitD not being a stat'ed D&D creature are quite small.

Grey Wolf

I go back and forth on this. Your point here is reasonable, but I also think a mythological or other kind of monster could have a lot of payoff, potentially even more than an official D&D one. So I think there's a decent chance that it's a monster which could be seen as "fitting" in an adventure story like this without being native to D&D.

[Only thing to add: I would find it totally awesome if it would be Snorlax, but I don't think that will happen, for more than enough reasons.]

Whereas I will be extremely diappointed if it's a Snorlax, since it's a really poor fit for the circus scene and otherwise in terms of appearance.

But you will know more about MitD and what it can do after it emerges from the darkness than you do while it is still hidden, even if you cannot name his species.

This is at two levels. First, the reveal is not just for the readers. It will also be for, you know, the actual characters in the comic. How Roy and V react to revealed!MitD will give you a lot of new information about MitD, even if you have been following this thread.

But lets say that, somehow, you don't think that the fact it will be a big reveal to Roy and V (who are the most likely to recognise MitD on sight) matters. Lets say that I agree with your base position that the only thing that matters is that the reader, not the characters, recognise MitD.

A name is just a tag. There is many, many ways of giving you clues about how MitD is powerful with drawing alone. Even if you have no idea what a sand elemental is, the drawing clues in the comic should tell you how dangerous it is in 901 and then reinforced in 902. Even if you don't know the name "sand elemental", you will have a fairly accurate idea of the kind of things that will hurt him and the ones that won't.

Let me give you an example based exclusively on Zodar and Protean. Lets say they are the only two candidates, and the reveal comes, and it is one or the other - but you have never heard of either, or of this thread.

Option A, MitD is a large thing with a black exoskeleton that is disgustingly insectoid. You will then know that Miko and Belkar just couldn't penetrate that exoskeleton - it must be very, very hard. Roy may have to use blunt objects, rather than his greatsword.

Option B, MitD is a mass of tentacles and other yucky stuff, and his model changes in every panel. You then know that Miko's problem was fast regeneration. Roy may need to use fire/salt/acid/etc. to attack it, or just keep chopping at tentacles as they appear.

Notice how many of the MitD unknowns can be shown, rather than told, through drawing clues alone. Yes, you might not be able to put a name tag on the thing, but Rich is a great storyteller, so you will know that MitD is to be feared, and once you see what it looks like, you will be closer to understand why and how it should be feared.

Exactly. In fact, a "What IS it?!" kind of reaction from the characters when it is revealed would feel very dramatically satisfying to me, because we would finally get to see first hand just what it was that had provoked those reactions in the scenes we've been examining for so long.


As far as whether we've guessed it or not so far, I think the Protean is far and away the strongest candidate we have (I lean heavily toward some kind of shifter). But as others have said, there's no way to know for sure until the reveal, and there's still plenty of room for doubt even among the strongest contenders.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize Grey_Wolf_c ?
- He doesn't have time to keep up his appearance so looks like a human-sasquatch mix wearing clothing.

4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing Grey_Wolf_c ?
- No time to shower either.

My SO read this over my shoulder, and is now also in the "MitD must be Grey Wolf" camp.

Sigh.

GW

[Shale]

We're helpers!

[Steven]

Juiblex, The Faceless Lord is stated out in the Book of Vile Darkness.

He's got a strength of 34, Int of 24, AC of 37, Can use teleport without error as a spell-like and has an Ex ability called Amorphous that says that blunt and impact weapons deal no damage to him.

I can't see anything about being immune to mind control but I may just be being blind. He's an evil outsider who hates everything and 'revels only in destruction'

It's abilities fit, I think that strength is high enough, the amorphous ability COULD be extended to explain people not being about to hurt him.... I misread it the first time and though it would work but I'm sure Rich would have more than skim read the entry if he was using it in his comic.

That said the fluff is terrible. He's not a 'one of those' he is a 'that'. He's an evil outsider that wants to destroy everything and can cast tongues so speaking common is not really surprising. I suppose the hunters could have mistaken him for a slime but... Seems unlikely.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Juiblex, The Faceless Lord is stated out in the Book of Vile Darkness.

He's got a strength of 34, Int of 24, AC of 37, Can use teleport without error as a spell-like and has an Ex ability called Amorphous that says that blunt and impact weapons deal no damage to him.

Interesting. I wouldn't ask if it were not a demon, but: can you double check that the teleport without error is unconditional? A lot of demons tend to have it, but can only cast it on themselves and up to N pounds of non-living matter.

Thanks,

Grey Wolf