Grrl Power VI: Stripping The Hero Doesnt Work

[Dragonus45]

Oof, for someone who's powers rely on having someone be willing to hire you HW really seems more interested in burning all her bridges at maximum speed.

[Kantaki]

Oof, for someone who's powers rely on having someone be willing to hire you HW really seems more interested in burning all her bridges at maximum speed.

I guess she's good enough to not give her game away until some time after the contract's signed.
Or at least to pick very gullible marks.

And in best Faustian tradition, once you've signed she has won and you loose.
She is part devil after all.
Now, obviously she could be more clever about it, but she probably doesn't expect her "bosses" to have much opportunity to warn anyone once she's done with them.
At least not before she picked up the next group of fools.

Is her approach viable in the long term?
Nope. But not everyone has long term planning as their top priority. She might be more focused on getting her fun while she can.

[Traab]

I guess she's good enough to not give her game away until some time after the contract's signed.
Or at least to pick very gullible marks.

And in best Faustian tradition, once you've signed she has won and you loose.
She is part devil after all.
Now, obviously she could be more clever about it, but she probably doesn't expect her "bosses" to have much opportunity to warn anyone once she's done with them.
At least not before she picked up the next group of fools.

Is her approach viable in the long term?
Nope. But not everyone has long term planning as their top priority. She might be more focused on getting her fun while she can.

It depends on how you define viable. I mean, if I understand what has happened here correctly, she has basically made it so only she can "fire" herself officially and thus lose her powers. So until she finds a better bunch of saps to use, she has a solid mix of multiple flexible and powerful abilities that cant be taken away from her until she chooses it. Its not like there is a guild of all the bad guys on earth or a facebook message board setup to spread the word about her tricky contractual behavior, so its entirely likely that she could track down other villains and make a contract with them as well.

Like a legal document version of sciona. Instead of injecting blood to get powers, she tricks them into signing a copy of them over to her and she has full control over how long she keeps them for. That might even be a valid long term goal, getting a decent representation of every major power type out there. So as an example, a brick, an energy manipulator, a teleporter, a regenerator, a flier, and a psychic. Maybe trade out for more powerful versions as she can. So like the difference between getting luke cage to give you his bullet proof skin and somewhat super strength, then finding ben grimm and getting HIS brute package to replace lukes.

[Lapak]

The biggest problem being that while they haven't really lived up to it yet, the advertised policy of the super-hero group she is taunting is literally 'if we cannot safely imprison you we will just straight-up kill you.'

A very reasonable (indeed, the most likely in anything but a narrative-driven sense) outcome of this whole encounter is that, having had it made clear that she can't be disarmed, Maxima just executes her to end this. I'm expecting instead that she'll say as much and convince Hench Wench to quit voluntarily.

[Dragonus45]

The biggest problem being that while they haven't really lived up to it yet, the advertised policy of the super-hero group she is taunting is literally 'if we cannot safely imprison you we will just straight-up kill you.'

A very reasonable (indeed, the most likely in anything but a narrative-driven sense) outcome of this whole encounter is that, having had it made clear that she can't be disarmed, Maxima just executes her to end this. I'm expecting instead that she'll say as much and convince Hench Wench to quit voluntarily.

I'm a bit curious if it won't turn out she was soft balling HW to try and see if she could make her use any more powers for intel gathering purposes.

[Traab]

I'm a bit curious if it won't turn out she was soft balling HW to try and see if she could make her use any more powers for intel gathering purposes.

That is an interesting idea. "Ok folks, here is what we've got. Henchwench was observed using these 7 powers. We captured three of the people in her little llc, so that leaves us with at least 4 others to hunt down. Arc Light has records of a specific number of people with similar abilities so we are now staking them out to see if any lead us to their lair." On the other hand, thats kinda dangerous, she has already caused a lot of damage and every time she breaks out a new power thats like a free shot before max can get that one under control too.

[Dragonus45]

That is an interesting idea. "Ok folks, here is what we've got. Henchwench was observed using these 7 powers. We captured three of the people in her little llc, so that leaves us with at least 4 others to hunt down. Arc Light has records of a specific number of people with similar abilities so we are now staking them out to see if any lead us to their lair." On the other hand, thats kinda dangerous, she has already caused a lot of damage and every time she breaks out a new power thats like a free shot before max can get that one under control too.

If it was anyone else I would think it too risky, but Max might think it worth the risk as long as she has the backup round to keep the adds in check and we already know Arc Light is fully capable of that kind of on the ball information gathering.

[Shining Wrath]

A brawl involving space aliens in New York City is going to get some news coverage. Therefore, every potential employer of Hench Wench is getting a live demonstration of why that may not be a good idea.

[Dragonus45]

A brawl involving space aliens in New York City is going to get some news coverage. Therefore, every potential employer of Hench Wench is getting a live demonstration of why that may not be a good idea.

Yea remember they explicitly called out all the people hanging out nearby with their phones out.

[Shining Wrath]

Concretia just submitted her employment application to Archon. Maxima looks inclined to accept after giving her sufficient side-eye that she knows not to trifle with the boss.

[Ibrinar]

She gave herself intangibility? If she wasn't a joke cameo character her powers would be big bad level of OP with the right backers. Her employers would be her Achilles heel. (I wonder did she rule them just leaving the llc out too? Not much use being unfireable if the people giving you powers can just stop being part of it.)

[Kantaki]

She gave herself intangibility? If she wasn't a joke cameo character her powers would be big bad level of OP with the right backers. Her employers would be her Achilles heel. (I wonder did she rule them just leaving the llc out too? Not much use being unfireable if the people giving you powers can just stop being part of it.)

Now I'm reminded of a quote from The Sword Interval.
„F.A.M.I.L.I.A.R. contracts don't expire with their signees.“
Wouldn't put a stunt like that past Henchwench, considering what else she's pulled.

[Dragonus45]

I'm now really curious what combo of powers she used to pull that one off?

[AvatarVecna]

Shouldn't we be blaming whoever paid $50 for the cameo, not Dave who just wrote it in?

I know this already got kinda addressed with the "they only gave a name and Dave took it from there" point that got brought up, but I also wanna say: it's his baby and he can do what he wants with it, but if he's willing to acceptable metaphorical parenting rules given to him by strangers should they offer enough money, I feel comfortable leaving a good deal of the blame with him. Even if he hadn't been the one to decide Hench Wench would have a power this weird, if it had been wholy the client's idea, it'd still be weird that he went with it even tho it's really frickin weird and invites so many immersion-breaking questions. Like I don't wanna be hyperbolic and say he's sacrificing his artistic integrity by letting randos insert story-ruining elements for 50 bucks, but my point is at least glancing in the same general direction as that theoretical hyperbolic complaint.

Additionally, as far as "she's only been around for ~30 comics" point somebody made: the first big massive brawl that ended with Vehemence lasted 86 comics (#201 to #286). Vehemence joined the fight at #249 (smacking the telekinetic guy), while showing up in a couple comics before then for minor conversation. As far as that fight goes, he is "on-screen" for ~40 comics. Now, an 86-page fight, even though everybody had been clamoring for some proper action, was getting to the point where it was dragging on for long-term viewers just a little bit - not a lot because it was good action, but it was starting to wear thin. On a reread, though, that runtime is earned - it's utterly phenomenal action-scene pacing for a super-brawl involving that many characters. It never drags on or feels like it's rushing to squeeze everything in. The Vehemence section is almost half the total runtime of that fight, and again it's earned.

...I don't know that Henchwench's power or plan has really warranted 30 pages. Like if I was buying these as physical books, the Vehemence section is definitely worth the money, but is the Henchwench section worth almost as much? Be honest with yourself.

All that said, HW doesn't have to be on Deus' level, because she's the warmup - the same way the first half of the big brawl was, and now we're going to move forward to dealing with the actual threat - this league of evil that HW signed on with that apparently included Concretia. Especially given the "nonconsensual recruitment pitch" they gave Sydney.

[Mechalich]

Additionally, as far as "she's only been around for ~30 comics" point somebody made: the first big massive brawl that ended with Vehemence lasted 86 comics (#201 to #286). Vehemence joined the fight at #249 (smacking the telekinetic guy), while showing up in a couple comics before then for minor conversation. As far as that fight goes, he is "on-screen" for ~40 comics. Now, an 86-page fight, even though everybody had been clamoring for some proper action, was getting to the point where it was dragging on for long-term viewers just a little bit - not a lot because it was good action, but it was starting to wear thin. On a reread, though, that runtime is earned - it's utterly phenomenal action-scene pacing for a super-brawl involving that many characters. It never drags on or feels like it's rushing to squeeze everything in. The Vehemence section is almost half the total runtime of that fight, and again it's earned.

...I don't know that Henchwench's power or plan has really warranted 30 pages. Like if I was buying these as physical books, the Vehemence section is definitely worth the money, but is the Henchwench section worth almost as much? Be honest with yourself.

Arcs in a serial vary in quality. Hench Wench is a part of this arc, but only a modest part. She's only been on screen in a portion of the comics since her appearance, and unlike Vehemence she's not the story focus. Her purpose is primarily to simply occupy Maxima so other things can happen. She's playing 'Superman distractor' which is basically an obligator presence in team fights at this point.

Is she a problem, yes. Her overly-complicated and thought-inducing power set is a poorly written distraction that has briefly hijacked the story. And yes, it does bring down the overall quality of this arc (though honestly this arc was kind of a mess even before Hench Wench), but it's only one arc.

[Shining Wrath]

Arcs in a serial vary in quality. Hench Wench is a part of this arc, but only a modest part. She's only been on screen in a portion of the comics since her appearance, and unlike Vehemence she's not the story focus. Her purpose is primarily to simply occupy Maxima so other things can happen. She's playing 'Superman distractor' which is basically an obligator presence in team fights at this point.

Is she a problem, yes. Her overly-complicated and thought-inducing power set is a poorly written distraction that has briefly hijacked the story. And yes, it does bring down the overall quality of this arc (though honestly this arc was kind of a mess even before Hench Wench), but it's only one arc.

This is a good point. Sydney being truly heroic without any help from her orbs was the long-term payoff of this arc. Unarmed, immobilized, facing truly evil baddies willing to kill her, she used the only tool she had to survive - her ADHD-inspired gab. And her high-tech glasses.

For that to happen, the super who can fly 2000 MPH or faster and destroy space battleships has to be kept busy. Hench Wench needed to be strong enough to do that for several minutes. That requires over-the-top powers, because Maxima is over-the-top.

[Radar]

This is a good point. Sydney being truly heroic without any help from her orbs was the long-term payoff of this arc. Unarmed, immobilized, facing truly evil baddies willing to kill her, she used the only tool she had to survive - her ADHD-inspired gab. And her high-tech glasses.

For that to happen, the super who can fly 2000 MPH or faster and destroy space battleships has to be kept busy. Hench Wench needed to be strong enough to do that for several minutes. That requires over-the-top powers, because Maxima is over-the-top.

From that perspective, it also required that Maxima level threat to be disposable in some way. In that regard working on borrowed power was a good narrative choice. The problems lie in the small details.

[Shining Wrath]

From that perspective, it also required that Maxima level threat to be disposable in some way. In that regard working on borrowed power was a good narrative choice. The problems lie in the small details.

I think another story objective was to bring Concretia in as a "good guy", so having her put the final smack down on HW also needed to be worked into the story. Given the problem Dave set himself, his solution makes sense. Having said that, the degree to which HW is "unbelievable" - that is, doesn't jibe with my understanding of the setting, which may be my fault - is I think an indication that Maxima is a problem for story telling. How do you give Archon a challenge when they've got HER?

[Max_Killjoy]

The limit I can think of for Maxima is that she can't be everywhere at once, and isn't a teleporter.

If Maxima's top speed is 2000mph, she can be up to 6+ hours away from any incident at any one time... if Archon ends up able to operate in other parts of the world.

Just in the US -- the far coast, Alaska, Hawaii, and "overseas territories" are hours away.

[Traab]

The limit I can think of for Maxima is that she can't be everywhere at once, and isn't a teleporter.

If Maxima's top speed is 2000mph, she can be up to 6+ hours away from any incident at any one time... if Archon ends up able to operate in other parts of the world.

Just in the US -- the far coast, Alaska, Hawaii, and "overseas territories" are hours away.

I foresee her as being left at home base more often as time goes on and number of potential teams go up. She is the nuclear option that only gets sent out when there is a known maxima level issue in play. Maybe playing mission control until then. Right now we are kind of in between on squad size as there may not be enough people to split into multiple well balanced teams, but they are a bit unwieldy all together. Once the students (including officially sydney) all graduate, then we will see some reasonable team formations. Like a heavy hitter, a tank, a utility expert, etc etc etc. With maxima being held back unless needed. As for her top speed, we dont know currently what that is, and we also dont know where she might end up headquartered. If they popped her right in the middle, the continental us it would be about 1400 miles to east or west coast, so she would be maybe a half hour, 45 minutes away at worst with her top speed. Assuming that is her top speed. According to an earlier comic, sydney topped out at mach 4 before her upgrades in space, thats 2900 mph give or take and was still the second fastest flier. That means maxima is at LEAST able to go 3k mph. And the way she phrased might eventually be faster, it would be safer to assume she is significantly faster when she goes all out. I wouldnt be shocked if she was double sydneys speed. So 6k mph. Which puts her well into the realm of able to reach anywhere in the continental US in the time it takes to get an ambulance most locations. With that as a top speed she doesnt even have to be centrally located to get wherever she needs to go really really fast in an emergency.

[Sean Mirrsen]

So 6k mph. Which puts her well into the realm of able to reach anywhere in the continental US in the time it takes to get an ambulance most locations. With that as a top speed she doesnt even have to be centrally located to get wherever she needs to go really really fast in an emergency.

The obvious problem is the magnitude of emergency must be higher than the collateral damage of Maxima traveling at hypersonic speeds over densely populated areas of continental US.

[Keltest]

The obvious problem is the magnitude of emergency must be higher than the collateral damage of Maxima traveling at hypersonic speeds over densely populated areas of continental US.

I mean, she could just fly higher.

[Traab]

I mean, she could just fly higher.

This, fly straight up to the safe altitude, shouldnt take more than 30 seconds, then fly her way on to the site at mach 8 or whatever. Drop down on the battle site like a meteor and end the kerfuffle. Her people should be trained enough to know when to call for backup and be able to survive till she gets there. Basically this scenario

[Shining Wrath]

One reason the Concorde never had much commercial success was sonic booms over cities. Maxima would get her golden butt sued if she set off sonic booms every time there was an emergency.

Anyway, another way to solve the Maxima problem is Evil Space Aliens that require her to get on Cora's ship and go fight them Over There so she doesn't have to fight them Here. The Fel are already established as "really powerful aliens that would kill lots of humans given the chance", so Maxima taking the fight to the Fel is reasonable, and lets the rest of the team "grow up".

Concretia is getting a spiritual whoopin'. Not sure if she can be choked out in this form - for that matter, can she just sink into the floor? Is all the pain and damage psychosomatic?

And if Hench Wench be Superwoman, Mr. Amorphous is holding a big handful of Kryptonite. Nothing ends evil legal maneuvering quite like a not-quite-evil better lawyer.

[Radar]

New page.

So... I put my bet on

Spoiler

Show

Arianna managing to dissolve the LLC that HW is drawing power from.

Aside from that, it is good to see Concretia free. The bad guys had a pretty high class ship there. It actually looks like a one of a kind vessel that everyone would recognize immediately. Tracing the owner should be very easy in this situation. To be honest, using such a ship as your base of criminal operations is a very stupid thing to do.

edit:

Nothing ends evil legal maneuvering quite like a not-quite-evil better lawyer.

I think the status of Arianna could be described by a quote from Sherlock: Oh, I may be on the side of the angels, but don't for one second think that I am one of them.

[Dragonus45]

One reason the Concorde never had much commercial success was sonic booms over cities. Maxima would get her golden butt sued if she set off sonic booms every time there was an emergency.

Yea that evidence that the Concorde, or any other supersonic civilian flight, would cause damage to cities is mostly anecdotal and borderline mythical. Max getting so close to the ground and being able to to go sooooo much faster might make it more likely though.

[Shining Wrath]

Yea that evidence that the Concorde, or any other supersonic civilian flight, would cause damage to cities is mostly anecdotal and borderline mythical. Max getting so close to the ground and being able to to go sooooo much faster might make it more likely though.

I think the Concorde's sonic booms were annoying, not damaging. Annoying the entire population of NYC at once is enough.

[Max_Killjoy]

Maxima is also a lot smaller than Concorde, and can probably fly higher as well.

Should reduce the boom, IIRC.

[Dragonus45]

I think the Concorde's sonic booms were annoying, not damaging. Annoying the entire population of NYC at once is enough.

Yea that sums it up, although the 73 ban on supersonic flight gets more credit for killing it then anything.

[TeChameleon]

Can anyone parse the motion lines in the 'Ghost spit?' panel? Hench Wench is pretty obviously throwing a right hook, and Concretia's head is knocked that direction, but the motion lines are... I don't even know. They trace a line of motion that would mean she brought her right fist from up high into a weird abortive backhand-turned-into-a-punch? Dave is usually pretty good with the motion lines, but every once in a while he throws in some that make no sense to me.

EDIT: And the 'Max's Sonic Boom' thing was addressed in the comic/author's notes here.