Can Earth Elementals bring along willing passengers?

[Biggus]

Wait, are you guys seriously saying an ability that directly says its a burrow isn't a burrow because the authors forgot to include it in the speed section?

I don't know of any reason to think the authors forgot to include it in the speed section. It would hardly be first time D&D authors used sloppy language...

Except specific trumps general and the Earth Elemental has a specific ability that lets it burrow despite not having a burrow speed, so it's really not open and shut in any way.

But it's not burrowing in the sense of being the "burrow" ability. The Rules Compendium makes that crystal clear.

[sleepyphoenixx]

But it's not burrowing in the sense of being the "burrow" ability. The Rules Compendium makes that crystal clear.

The specific ability of the elemental calls it burrowing. Twice. And as the more specific rule it would override the more general rules for burrowing in the RC.

But as i said, the difference is irrelevant.
The elemental moves through earth and stone without any sign of its presence, so by definition it cannot displace material while doing so.

Also any argument that relies on two things not being the same despite being called the same thing is pretty much the opposite of crystal clear by default.
It's (unfortunatly) not without precedent in 3.5, but that's hardly proof of it being that way in this instance.

[InvisibleBison]

Wait, are you guys seriously saying an ability that directly says its a burrow isn't a burrow because the authors forgot to include it in the speed section?

Yes, we're saying that the RAW are the rules that are written in the book. "The authors obviously meant to add this rule, but they forgot to do so" is a RAI argument, not a RAW argument.

[magicalmagicman]

Yes, we're saying that the RAW are the rules that are written in the book. "The authors obviously meant to add this rule, but they forgot to do so" is a RAI argument, not a RAW argument.

No. The RAW argument is that Earth Glide lets Earth Elementals burrow through earth.

What you guys are doing is neither RAW nor RAI. It's just pure irrationality. Which is why I have no interest in joining the debate.

Most burrowing creatures do not leave behind tunnels

Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel

If someone told me Earth Glide isn't burrowing because... what were you guys saying? Rules Compendium said creatures without burrow speed can't burrow despite having spells/ex/su abilities that let you burrow? And therefore spells/ex/su abilities that lets you burrow isn't actually burrowing but ghosting/phasing and the author chose words poorly?

Yeah. No.

For the record, this is RAW: "Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel"
And whatever it is you're doing is not.

[hamishspence]

I think the point of Earth Glide instead of a burrow speed, is that the creature does not have any of the penalties normally imposed by Burrow. It can use the Run action. It can Charge. It can move through stone.

[InvisibleBison]

Okay, clearly no one is going to be able to persuade anyone on the earth glide/burrow issue. Fine. However, I don't think it matters. Neither earth glide nor the normal burrow rules say anything about being able to bring anyone along with you, so there are no rules about whether it can be done. Whether that means that RAW it can't be done or that the RAW is ambiguous strikes me as a matter of opinion, though I'd be inclined to take the former position. Clearly, though, it's not RAW that you can do so.

[Segev]

Okay, clearly no one is going to be able to persuade anyone on the earth glide/burrow issue. Fine. However, I don't think it matters. Neither earth glide nor the normal burrow rules say anything about being able to bring anyone along with you, so there are no rules about whether it can be done. Whether that means that RAW it can't be done or that the RAW is ambiguous strikes me as a matter of opinion, though I'd be inclined to take the former position. Clearly, though, it's not RAW that you can do so.

For completeness’s sake, the RAW also do not say you cannot do so.

I would personally rule that they cannot. But it is a DM call.