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2013-12-20, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Thanks, Zimmerwald1915! I had forgotten about the ADB commenting on V's spells, only remembering how the number of spells used could be helped to determine a lower bound. Your aid in explanation is much appreciated.
Last edited by Deliverance; 2013-12-20 at 08:46 AM.
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2013-12-20, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
While it is possibly and probably the smartest move to give the Ioun Stone to V (and th OP already listed it as such), as of strip #935 I would argue to move it to Blackwing's items: It is clearly shown that he has it in his claws and he did not did say that he snagged it for V. So before we have evidence that he passed it to V it is imo Blackwing's item.
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2013-12-20, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
From a story perspective V letting Blackwing keep the bauble because he likes it even though it strengthens V considerably and does nothing for Blackwing would be a good character growth opportunity. So assuming that Blackwing will give the ioun stone to V is a mistake (even though I think it is more likely than not that he will).
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2013-12-20, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I haven't been following this thread, but two things came to mind.
Does Roy actually have the Mage Slayer feat yet? His only usage takes place inside a very powerful illusion. Using an ability that he has been practicing but is not yet proficient with is not unreasonable given what else takes place.
With his recent return, is there enough information to put up a stat block for Julio? There's a bit of evidence for certain things:
-CL 11+, says he has 10 levels Dashing Swordsman
-DMG states you should have 5-6 levels before being able to take prestige classes (though splatbooks break this at least once), CL 15/16+
-As a rival to Tarquin, it is also possible to say he's equal to his level a la PC rival rules, i.e. Crystal.
-Claims average str/dex scores (10-12?) but reasonably better Charisma (14+ min, though 20+ isn't far-fetched considering Swordsman rank, level, and wealth).
-Smarter than Elan (10+ Int?)
That's off the top of my head. There is likely more I don't remember in SSDT.Last edited by Nightblade; 2013-12-20 at 09:25 AM.
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2013-12-20, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
He used his feat (which I still don't think is Mage Slayer) on Miron to cancel his Horrid Wilting.
Originally Posted by The Giant
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2013-12-20, 11:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-20, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-12-20, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-12-20, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Where do you get "must grant level 9 spells" from "strengthens V considerably"? It seems to me that an extra damage die, a 5% greater probability to dispel and counterspell, and a 5% greater probability to penetrate spell resistance all "strengthen V considerably", especially since V likes to use damage spells (she even used one in this fight with Laurin) and has historically had a hard time penetrating spell resistance.
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2013-12-20, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-12-20, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-20, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-20, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Quoth Deliverance:
but then again, we very seldom see V go wild with any sort of magic as unloading a significant part of any high level wizard's load of spells would take a lot of strips.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
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2013-12-20, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
The Directors can refresh V's spell slots...when, and by, performing a soul splice. They did not perform a soul splice here.
No I didn't. Check the first paragraph of the post again, right under the two block quotes. Then count how many level 3 spell slots I gave V.
So? This is 3.5e (or rather, the OOTS RPG, which works like 3.5e unless explicitly stated otherwise, and no explicit statement has appeared), son.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2013-12-20 at 11:22 AM.
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2013-12-20, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
While I don't believe he realizes it, zimmer already shot that down:
"Though on the plus side, the rejuvenating effects of the Soul Splice will allow you to start with all spell slots fully replenished."
We know that V's body was "rejuvenated" to full HP this time. The Soul Splice rejuvenation took less than 20 minutes, and didn't involve V looking at her spell book, or resting.
So, we know that the IFCC can do it, and the restoration of health (that was not promised) shows that V gets benefits from the grab that weren't explained before hand.
So unless you have a good story about how V picked up an extra bit of Int, and an extra level, without anyone really noticing, I'd say the "IFCC refills" is the best explanation.Last edited by GregTD; 2013-12-20 at 02:06 PM.
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2013-12-20, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-20, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
"...the rejuvenating effects of the Soul Splice will..."
Not some special thing the IFCC did for this purpose, but a side effect of the process V underwent. Since Vaarsuvius did not undergo this same process in V's recent visit with the fiends, there is no reason to assume that V randomly got spell slots refilled.
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2013-12-20, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Please, if you're going to quote me, at least get my name right. If you're not in the mood to type it out, then either shorten it (I like "zimmer") or copy and paste it from the quote box.
So unless you have a good story about how V picked up an extra bit of Int, and an extra level, without anyone really noticing, I'd say the "IFCC refills" is the best explanation.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2013-12-20 at 11:35 AM.
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2013-12-20, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
IFCC states that V's body can't come to harm while his soul is with them and the place where his body was staying was subject to a massive explosion. It's reasonable that they had to do something to restore V's body after that and just went with restoring V to full health rather than pinpointing his health total before his soul was called down.
The effects of the splice itself were specifically stated to restore V's slots. It was a side effect of the process. No such process was done here and there's no indication that the IFCC can restore spell slots otherwise. You're assuming powers not in evidence and using them to solve a problem. Zimmer's explanation is better by far because it doesn't magically create an ability out of nowhere.Last edited by orrion; 2013-12-20 at 11:37 AM.
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2013-12-20, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
The thing is, you're assuming a homebrewed effect to justify the lower level. Yes, there exists a homebrewed effect that does what you're describing, but there's no evidence that it was used on this occasion.
And people have been gaining stats/levels "without anyone noticing" for a while. There was no pomp and circumstance when V revealed Power Word Stun: Until that time we still believed they were level 14.
Also also, the extra int and level can be explained hand in hand: Upon reaching level 16 (and any multiple of 4), you can raise one of your ability scores by one. So going from Level 15/Int 23 to Level 16/Int 24 is perfectly acceptable.Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2013-12-20 at 11:48 AM.
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
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2013-12-20, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
V could have been lying to Laurin about how many spells she had. BTW I liked that little ray of hope that L had when she thought that V was out of spells.
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2013-12-20, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Last edited by sam79; 2013-12-20 at 12:08 PM.
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2013-12-20, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Bluff is cross-class for wizards, depends on a stat V doesn't have much of, and would operate at a +10 DC because it would make Laurin believe that she's in significant danger.
So stats-geekery-wise, not that likely.Originally Posted by The Giant
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2013-12-20, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I would humbly suggest that we do not know (1) that the Ring of Wizardry conforms precisely to any in the SRD, and (2) that V does not possess something like a Pearl(s) of Power.
I admire the careful work that implies V is 16 level and Int 24, but it is not a conclusion that seems very firm to me.
Furthermore, it is possible that V is fudging the truth, and/or is counting a scroll or three.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
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2013-12-20, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
At some point, we have to work on some assumptions. Not everything can be cast iron irrefutable fact due to the nature of story moments naturally overriding D&D rules.
- We assume a feat/spell/magic item/whatever works as described in the SRD unless proven otherwise. An example of being proven otherwise is Overland Flight, which V normally could not cast on other people.
- We do not assume a character has an unspoken of magic item unless evidence points to it. For example we pegged Tarquin having a ring of evasion because of taking no damage from the Flame Strike, and not knowing his class.
Furthermore, it is possible that V is fudging the truth, and/or is counting a scroll or three.Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2013-12-20 at 12:47 PM.
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2013-12-20, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
At that point you kill the reason the thread is around.
The comic is based on 3.5 rules, so we have to assume that the 3.5 rules are in operation unless told or shown otherwise. Likewise, it's pointless to say "Magic Item X could do this" unless there's reason to believe that a magic item is present.
V could be bluffing and/or counting scrolls, but bluffing isn't an established part of V's character and scrolls haven't had a huge presence in the comic. Also, if he had scrolls it would make even better sense to say "I have X spells left and a bunch of scrolls" to make himself seem even more formidable. Plus V makes a specific mention of discounting cantrips so he'd probably have made a mention of discounting scrolls if there were any.
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2013-12-20, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
V being Level 16 and that headband/scrunchie thing being a +6 INT item seems reasonable enough to me.
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2013-12-20, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Not to mention that lie detection is Laurin's thing, and it would probably have been included in Sabine's warnings about her ("don't bluff the psion - she's Tarquin's lie detector)
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2013-12-20, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-20, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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