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Thread: Superior Unarmed Strike?
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2007-09-17, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Superior Unarmed Strike?
I've seen this mentioned a few times on the board. What on Earth is it? What does it do? And where can I find it?
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2007-09-17, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
A feat from Tome of Battle. It either grants a character an unarmed damage progression, or treats them as a monk 4 levels higher for determining unarmed damage.
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2007-09-17, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
It's a feat in the Tome of Battle book. It improves your characters unarmed strike based either on their monk level or, lacking monk levels, progresses your unarmed damage.
Edit: Blasted ninjas!Last edited by Hyfigh; 2007-09-17 at 04:03 PM.
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2007-09-18, 02:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-09-18, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Interesting. What are its prereqs?
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2007-09-18, 06:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Improved Unarmed Strike and BAB +3.
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2007-09-18, 07:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
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2007-09-18, 07:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
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2007-09-18, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Yeah, but looks like it'll work better with a character who's actually a monk.
But then, who am I to judge the swordsage, I who can only access the SRD?Avatarcred: HELL YEAH to THE Oneris! Ma'am, thank you, ma'am.
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2007-09-18, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
It basically makes unarmed combat builds viable. It's also a good idea to take Improved Natural Attack, which increases the size category of any natural weapon (like Monks unarmed strikes) by one step.
For example, Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash-ish builds usually get 4d8ish damage per hit by mid levels. A Psionic Fist using Expansion can get 8d8. Either works really well with Grapple builds that utilizes Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm).
However, its worth noting that Unarmed Strike damage tends to scale well behind Claws of the Beast, Power Attack, Knockback+Dungeoncrasher, charge builds, many Tome of Battle maneuvers. So really, Superior Unarmed Strike is a way to make poor damage output mediocre, not a goal unto itself.
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2007-09-18, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
I've always wondered this, does a monk's unarmed strike, and superior unarmed strike for that matter, improve the damage of a natural weapon? Improved Natural Attack improves unarmed strike, but does it work the other way around?
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2007-09-18, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
I belive not
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2007-09-18, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
It's also worth noting that if you take Superior Unarmed Strike without Monk levels, your unarmed strikes don't count as natural weapons and thus you can't take Improved Natural Attack, which is a unique feature of the Monk's unarmed strike ability.
One quirk about Superior Unarmed Strike is that it's entirely based on class level, and is not adjusted for size. So if you're already small-sized, you can get the equivalent unarmed strike damage of a small monk without the stigma of actually taking monk levels.
However, I'm not entirely sure how something like Fist of the Forest (or SwordSage unarmed adaptation, or Shou Disciple) works if you don't have any monk levels. If you're a non-monk, does FotF give you the same type of unarmed strike as a monk, including the ability to enhance it as a natural attack? If that's the case, then Improved Natural Attack might work.Handbooks:
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2007-09-18, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
A Monk's unarmed strike is a natural weapon. Thus it can be improved with Improved Natural Attack. However, being a Monk never increases the damage of any other natural weapon, such as claws, bite, etc. If you want to increase the damage of some other natural weapon, you must either increase your size, take the Improved Natural Attack feat for that weapon, take a level of the Warshaper PrC, or buff yourself with specific magic spells, items, or psionic powers.
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2007-09-18, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
The unarmed Swordsage variant (and I repeat, it is a variant) is basically a suggestion in case you want to say "Y'know what, screw Monks. They're all Swordsages." In this case, the Swordsage would have the Monk's unarmed progression, so it'd be pretty much a wash, except for the part where the Swordsage is pretty much designed better than the monk across the board.
Last edited by Merlin the Tuna; 2007-09-18 at 11:09 AM.
Merlin the Tuna
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2007-09-18, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Cripes. Ok, how about the Flurry?
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2007-09-18, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Honestly, the ability to make more attacks in a full attack is crappy for a mobility-centric character, since "mobility" means "you don't stand still" and full attack requires you to not move.
If you really want extra attacks and you're using the Swordsage variant that Merlin's talking about, try maneuvers like Blistering Flourish (I think that's the one).Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2007-09-18, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Or take the feat Snap Kick.
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2007-09-18, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Sigh. Thousand thanks, folks. Appreciate it, I do.
But then, all I've got is the SRD--- no bookstores that I know of aroud here sell your fancy sourcebooks at a reasonable price, if at all.Avatarcred: HELL YEAH to THE Oneris! Ma'am, thank you, ma'am.
Previous Avatars: by Dr Bath, Strawberries, zimmerwald1915
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2007-09-18, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Not to totally harp on you to buy a bunch of supplements a few months before a new edition comes out, but Amazon.com has great prices. Dunno if they ship to the Phillipines, but it's something.
Merlin the Tuna
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2007-09-18, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Exchange rates and bad economy.
Running odd jobs.
Working student.
Thanks, bub.
Sorry.
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^That was not a poem.Last edited by Miraqariftsky; 2007-09-18 at 11:53 AM.
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2007-09-18, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
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2007-09-18, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Well Superior Unarmed Strike for me was looking at a Grappler Build.
House Rule: Bonus Feats you already have can be any class feat.
Build:
Race Goliath (Mountain Rage)
Monk2/Barbarian (Bear Totem) 5/Drunken Master 4/Something else here.
Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes (Maybe I should take Deflect Arrows), Great Fortitude, and Extra Rage as Bonus Feats. Plus a +4 to Grapple Checks while Raging.
With Superior Unarmed Strike and a few Combat Focus Feats I can lock down most enemies in a grapple.
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2007-09-18, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
I'm pretty sure they do. The exact wording of both the feat and item is "as a Monk X levels higher". Neither one states what it is higher in relation to, and the most sensible default for that imo is "higher than without this feat/item", in which case they stack.
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2007-09-18, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
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2007-09-18, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
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2007-09-18, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Do you realize that that thread, as well as the thread referred for the same reason support that they both stack? And I agree with that conclusion because they are additions. For example, you are a wizard 8/Archmage 5/IotSFV 7. You are casting as a wizard of 20th level, but those are two different classes giving an addition to your wizard level for spell casting, one 5 and the other 7. Therefore, if they don't stack, you would cast as a 15th level wizard (taking the highest addition). However, I can assume that everyone knows that they do in fact stack to give you spell casting as a 20th level wizard.
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2007-09-18, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
Notsomuch, no. Those are "effective caster level increases", as per the text of the "+1 spellcasting" feature, and they say "add your levels of X to your spellcasting level to determine...". The item and the feat both say "as a monk X levels higher when determining...", not "add X levels to your monk level to determine...".
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2007-09-18, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Superior Unarmed Strike?
That's a strange conclusion, since both of the threads ended their discussion on the matter in support of my conclusion.
That's because Archmage and IotSFV add to your effective Wizard level. Neither Superior Unarmed Strike nor a Monk's Belt add to your effective Monk level.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
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2007-09-18, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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