OOTS #1219 - The Discussion Thread

[Bunny Commando]

Who on Team Evil can detect traps? RC can run Find Traps, but that's only 1 min/level. Do we think he has a slew of them, or their Extended versions? Can Oona Find Traps or otherwise detect them?

The whole point of this is, are we sure that TE even knew that this tripwire was even there? If they didn't, and kept hitting it in every door they've gone through, might the tripwire send TE to a different dungeon (without an Epic Sorcerer or near-Epic, very clever Cleric realizing they'd been teleported elsewhere) than the one the Order is about to enter?

EDIT: OTOH, Haley hasn't been keeping her Search maxed, per that scene at the entrance to Girard's Pyramid, so maybe it doesn't take a huge Search skill to detect this particular tripwire?

TE knows that Serini Toormuck was a Rogue, it would seem a serious oversight on their part to not check for traps.
There's the chance that no one in TE knows that these traps have an automatic reset however, so even if they find the OotS they will end up blasted by a bunch of traps they didn't expect to find.

[Worldsong]

I do like this new and effective Order.

Also I guess we just learned something important about how the gate is protected. And rather than it being based on being a dwarf or a halfling it's based on being a rogue. Which I find a lot more satisfying.

[Schroeswald]

Watching the Order work together like this is so satisfying.

Also this is the fiftieth new strip posted since I caught up with the comic, so that’s cool.

[deltamire]

I'm guessing whatever this trap is is, it's not something you'd notice immediately - maybe something to do with the monsters inside? - instead of just exploding you into next week, It would explain why such a weight has been given to the fact that Haley's disarming it (for now, which could mean if Team Evil follows in later, we'll see what it triggers from an inside viewpoint), and why, if it's something unusual, she hasn't been able to specify what type of trap it is. She's usually on the ball with recognising things like that.

[Psepha]

Wait... IS the snow being moved aside a reliable indicator? It doesn't look like the doors hit the snow, so I assume it's from the passage of feet... and the MITD did approach each door to paint the red X's, whether that door was opened or not, so would that throw things off?

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, that “trap” has to have something to do with how the dungeon works. Can’t be an offensive spell though, because if it was then we’d have heard an explosion when Team Evil went into the dungeon three strips ago.

[Peelee]

Wait... IS the snow being moved aside a reliable indicator? It doesn't look like the doors hit the snow, so I assume it's from the passage of feet... and the MITD did approach each door to paint the red X's, whether that door was opened or not, so would that throw things off?

It's being presented as a reliable indicator, so I will not assume it's unreliable until the comic shows reason to. Which isn't to say that it is reliable, just that I like the story to be able to take me to the places it wants.

[Amarsir]

It’s worth remembering that Oona and her village farm these caves on the regular. Team Evil would have no reason to check for traps if they’re with someone who has been in there before.

[Doug Lampert]

I meant as a character joke, not a rules joke.

Sure, but as a character joke, Belkar has had a point made before about being a lousy tracker. I think it's just a throw away with no real setup.

[Tuhlore]

It's possible that TE is just immune to the trap's effect. However, it couldn't be mind affecting, because Xykon wouldn't be affected. It also couldn't be an Evocation spell, because there was no boom, as mentioned.
Also, Haley has leveled up since the desert temple.

I agree that it has something to do with the dungeon's design. Xykon can't Ghostform or Teleport inside, so who's to say it needs to be static?

[Peelee]

Sure, but as a character joke, Belkar has had a point made before about being a lousy tracker. I think it's just a throw away with no real setup.

As I pointed out earlier (albeit in a spoiler), having a reason to learn how to track and actually being good at tracking are very separate things.

[Bunny Commando]

Yeah, that “trap” has to have something to do with how the dungeon works. Can’t be an offensive spell though, because if it was then we’d have heard an explosion when Team Evil went into the dungeon three strips ago.

That's actually a good point; there's the chance that the trap in that dungeon hasn't been already reset, though.

[BruceGee]

That sounds like something Girard or Dorukan would do. I'm not sure if Serini would have had access to that much high level magic. Paying for magic can get screwy.

We don't know who Serini might have met and allied with, all those years building her dungeon by herself at the top of the world. Such as the mysterious invisible flying dart shooter, for instance.

Or she was the dart shooter, and the other individual was responsible for the invisibility and flying. Are there any dragons that can turn invisible, cast spells, and carry unconscious paladins? (Not sure if anyone else has proposed it in comments.) Anyway, that's my theory.

[Wildstag]

Sure, but as a character joke, Belkar has had a point made before about being a lousy tracker. I think it's just a throw away with no real setup.

It is certainly possible that since the plot revolves around evil goblins, he's spent one of his Favored Enemy bonuses on Humanoid (goblinoid), which could provide an actual bonus to the checks, in which case there could be a real setup.

[Windscion]

If Serini installed magic traps, the most obvious source for the magic is a caster she knows. So Durokan or Girard, probably Girard. Which points toward the school of illusion.
Any illusions that do not show up on true seeing or have the mind affecting tag?

[skim172]

I'm prepared to accept this under suspension of disbelief - but just pointing out, I'm not sure there is any way to hide your scent tracks after the fact. As I understand it, once the scent trail is laid, there isn't much you can do about it.

[danielxcutter]

It is certainly possible that since the plot revolves around evil goblins, he's spent one of his Favored Enemy bonuses on Humanoid (goblinoid), which could provide an actual bonus to the checks, in which case there could be a real setup.

There aren’t any ways to hide your tracks besides moving at half speed, and the favored enemy bonus doesn’t help either.

[Rinazina]

Okay, my money is on the trap stops you from reaching the gate if you trigger it...

And Mitd marking wrong doors might not impact the search for the gate, but it's good foreshadowing for an upcoming betrayal....

I copy your bet like in etoro! make me wonder as a partnership between Haley and the magic users to find all the connection. a trigger like that would be hidden in other place of the dungeon too, wouldn't it ?

[Elenna]

Fun to see the Order being competent, especially in comparison to the first book(s)

[Emmit Svenson]

A ranger of sufficient level and sufficient wisdom could cast Pass Without Trace. If, upon gaining a new level, a high-level ranger spent his stat bump on raising his wisdom to the required (and really pretty low) score, he would become capable of casting the spell.

That doesn't seem to be exactly what's happening here--I just find it an interesting parallel. "Hey, can I reflavor my ranger spells as skills? I don't think it really fits my character to pray for divine spells."

[Psepha]

I'm prepared to accept this under suspension of disbelief - but just pointing out, I'm not sure there is any way to hide your scent tracks after the fact. As I understand it, once the scent trail is laid, there isn't much you can do about it.

Is Febreze a ranger class feature?

[Rinazina]

It’s worth remembering that Oona and her village farm these caves on the regular. Team Evil would have no reason to check for traps if they’re with someone who has been in there before.

Totally agree, and they never found the gate even if explored (randomly?) many doors.
It can be something spotted by Haley today, and likewise spotted by the bugbear in the past. Simply they neglected the meaning of it by not seeing any effect.

[locksmith of lo]

the funny thing, as someone pointed out, we can see the lines from when durkon opened the doors. but, curiously, they are never in the line of sight when team evil opens the door, nor the warg. we have no way of knowing if they actually have the lines when they go in or not.

[Keltest]

I'm prepared to accept this under suspension of disbelief - but just pointing out, I'm not sure there is any way to hide your scent tracks after the fact. As I understand it, once the scent trail is laid, there isn't much you can do about it.

You can cover it up with something different. If you go to an intersection and you put a really strong source of stench (say, skunk spray) down each direction, thats going to cover you up pretty well. Its not foolproof, but the sensation of "NOPE!" will make it significantly harder for them to locate your own scent underneath it.

[understatement]

Crackshot theory:

The trap isn't offensive (or else Team Evil would have set it off). It's a scrying trap instead, allowing the guardians of the Gate to track whoever didn't disable the alarm (that's why Haley also mentions it goes off for each person walking over it). That way, the guardians instantly know which dungeon the Team has entered as well as tracking their progress. This also maybe allows them to reach the Gate before the invading team and blow it if they have to.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

Is Febreze a ranger class feature?

Well, there are air fresheners, at least.

[Ghosty]

I'm prepared to accept this under suspension of disbelief - but just pointing out, I'm not sure there is any way to hide your scent tracks after the fact. As I understand it, once the scent trail is laid, there isn't much you can do about it.

Magic covers a lot.

Laying a superintense scent down that masks the original scent---strong essential oils like eugenol (oil of clove), chili pepper extract, etc---is another method. I can see too, spraying some other substance that would chemically break down the floating and adsorbed molecules that make up a scent trail. Bleach, ozone, fluorine gas. An aerosol of activated charcoal dust? Super-Febreeze.

A dog's nose is pretty sensitive though.

IMHO, it requires less suspension of disbelief than many other things in either D&D or this strip.

[DougTheHead]

For your own self-enrichment, Belkar? Yes.

Your own NOBLE self-enrichment? Not so much.

[Ghosty]

Is Febreze a ranger class feature?

Considering Aragorn never washes his hair (h/t to Cassandra Claire), yet is able to sit in a tavern without being noticed, I'd think so...

[Psyren]

...Belkar learned to track? Aside from his weird culinary scent ability I mean