Gunnerkrigg Court 7: Psychopomp and Circumstance

[Haruspex_Pariah]

That could just be it. We are talking about a man who wandered the earth trying to resurrect his dead wife instead of being there for his young daughter.

I can see the possibility that Tom might have stepped out of his wheelhouse, by delving into troubled parent-child relationships instead of the schoolkids-going-on-fantastic-adventures stories that make up most of the plot.

[Yuki Akuma]

You were saying?

The fact that the chapter ended on the page after I said that doesn't change the fact that treating the chapter as if it's said all it's going to say before it's finished is stupid.

[PhantomFox]

One word: guilt.

[Honest Tiefling]

That could just be it. We are talking about a man who wandered the earth trying to resurrect his dead wife instead of being there for his young daughter.

Tony: Surma, my love, you've been dead for years, but I've found a way to bring you back!

Surma: Oh boy, I can't wait to see how much Antimony has grown into a well-adjusted young woman with tons of friends!

Tony: UUUHHHHHH....

I can't help but wonder it's implied that Tony has some sort of mind control aura or if he's just that good at manipulating people...

[Doran]

By failing to cure Surma, he has also doomed Annie and any descendants to short lives spent without their mothers.

As an aside I wonder what would have happened if Annie had died as a toddler - would the flame elemental have snapped back to Surma, or would that have been it?
Was Surma also incapable of having any other children then Annie, or would they simply be without fire elemental powers?

[halfeye]

By failing to cure Surma, he has also doomed Annie and any descendants to short lives spent without their mothers.

As an aside I wonder what would have happened if Annie had died as a toddler - would the flame elemental have snapped back to Surma, or would that have been it?
Was Surma also incapable of having any other children then Annie, or would they simply be without fire elemental powers?

Maybe the only way Antimony can die is by giving birth?

[Honest Tiefling]

Maybe the only way Antimony can die is by giving birth?

I hear adoption can work out quite well.

I'm curious if the fetus within one of these fire elemental ladies needs to be in their womb or not. What if a surrogate could get around some issues by getting rid of a physical link? Or what if it is just 'in the blood' so the speak? I guess Antimony shouldn't go around donating organs, blood, bone marrow, or any other body part until that gets sorted out...

[eschmenk]

If Tom was trying to rehabilitate Tony's image, the best way to do that would be to have him start treating Annie a little better, but Tony was still his same cold self with Annie at the end of the previous chapter. I think Tom merely wanted to show how Tom treats other people, including Surma, differently than he treats Annie.

Yeah, Annie pretty much confirmed that in the last panel. There may have been more to it, though. Perhaps the chapter dragged on so long in part to show that even one-on-one relationships with Tony need to begin very slowly. Kat and Surma weren't trying to be friendly or win over Tony, but that's what happened in their cases. OTOH, the relationship with Brinnie didn't work out, but in that case it seemed that Brinnie may have come on too hard too fast. With Annie, Tony was hit by a bunch of emotions as soon as he saw her, so emotionally he was put on the spot immediately and he shut down.

So anyway, Red and Aylu rejected Annie, the big Y talked a lot but didn't offer Annie any help, Smitty and Parley just had an awkward silence with Annie while crossing the bridge, and now Kat and Surma can / could have good relationships with Tony but he's just ridiculously cold with Annie. Things just aren't going very well for her.

[Fawkes]

It baffles me that Tom would choose to have that development for Kat to happen offscreen. It just makes no sense.

[Mith]

It baffles me that Tom would choose to have that development for Kat to happen offscreen. It just makes no sense.

The only thing you can hope for at this point is that there is another part of a chapter that expands on Kat's side of the story when it is just the two of them. Kat may tell Annie of the Shadow Men.

[Typewriter]

It baffles me that Tom would choose to have that development for Kat to happen offscreen. It just makes no sense.

My guess is that Tom wanted to tell the story of Surma and Tony getting together and that he didn't want to show the same story twice - which is (essentially) what he would be doing if he was to have Kat have her 'change of heart' on screen. I think it could be expanded upon slightly, maybe just adding in a line to the effect of, "I tried mentioning you to him, Annie, I wanted to find out why he was so mean to you... but anytime you were mentioned he would get quiet and stop responding. I'm not really in a position where I can refuse to work with him and I didn't want to make things harder on myself or you so I did what you've been telling me this entire time - I just dropped it."

I don't have a major problem with the story as it's presented though - I just think there's a few little points that could be clarified but I'm fine with simply imagining that whatever happened was somewhat reasonable because there's no reason to really think otherwise.

[Honest Tiefling]

Another idea is that Antimony is the viewpoint character. She's confused and conflicted about her father having contact, if not outright friendly behavior, with people he barely knows while unable to treat her at all well. Showing it would reveal the character of Tony a little better, but ruin the mystery and the sense of isolation and neglect of Antimony.

And for all we know, his behavior is due to a brain worm eating his head and piloting the corpse. Okay, it's a long shot, but I really don't like Tony.

[Typewriter]

Another idea is that Antimony is the viewpoint character. She's confused and conflicted about her father having contact, if not outright friendly behavior, with people he barely knows while unable to treat her at all well. Showing it would reveal the character of Tony a little better, but ruin the mystery and the sense of isolation and neglect of Antimony.

And for all we know, his behavior is due to a brain worm eating his head and piloting the corpse. Okay, it's a long shot, but I really don't like Tony.

That occurred to me as well - I think there have been several times throughout the comic that we've seen things only from Annies perspective and we've had confusion over specific details as seen by other characters (especially Kat). The problem with this, however, is that Tom does not do this consistently. Sometimes Kat only exists when Annie is around to view her but other times we're shown her all on her own. The inconsistency makes times like this feel a little weird.

[anonymsly]

I don't think so. If Tom was trying to rehabilitate Tony's image, the best way to do that would be to have him start treating Annie a little better, but Tony was still his same cold self with Annie at the end of the previous chapter. I think Tom merely wanted to show how Tom treats other people, including Surma, differently than he treats Annie.

And I think that's the biggest point, and one that Annie herself is starting to really see now that it's obvious in front of her. Her father is perfectly willing to be a real person, even a funny and affectionate warm person, with virtually every single person in the universe as long as they are not named Antimony Carver. And, whether he knows it or not, he's doing it in exactly a way that leaves Annie alone and isolated, with even her best friend arrayed on the 'You're crazy, Annie, your dad's not so bad!' lines.

Annie's life/emotional well-being are going to get a lot worse. She can't confide or expect support from anyone at all, now. Except possibly Coyote and Ysengrin, and that's got its own swarm of problematic.

I don't care why Tony is doing the things he does. I care that he's doing them and, as far as I in the audience can tell, thinks weeping about his abuse in private means he doesn't have to go to any effort to halt said abuse.

[Honest Tiefling]

That occurred to me as well - I think there have been several times throughout the comic that we've seen things only from Annies perspective and we've had confusion over specific details as seen by other characters (especially Kat). The problem with this, however, is that Tom does not do this consistently. Sometimes Kat only exists when Annie is around to view her but other times we're shown her all on her own. The inconsistency makes times like this feel a little weird.

That's not really Tom's fault. It's a common enough technique in films and novels to sometimes hop out of the view point character's point of view but not reveal too much that way. What shouldn't matter is a convention of narration, but the impact it has on the audience. And if he wanted Tony to seem like a donkey cavity who utterly failed at being a parent and that Antimony is slowly becoming more emotionally distant and unstable, well, he did.

Annie's life/emotional well-being are going to get a lot worse. She can't confide or expect support from anyone at all, now. Except possibly Coyote and Ysengrin, and that's got its own swarm of problematic.

It's things like this that make me wonder if the Court has something to do with this mess. Or even Coyote himself.

[Typewriter]

I don't care <i>why</i> Tony is doing the things he does. I care that he's doing them and, as far as I in the audience can tell, thinks weeping about his abuse in private means he doesn't have to go to any effort to halt said abuse.

See, I (personally) do care about those reasons because Tony reminds me of a lot of people I've known in my life (including, in some ways, myself). I don't think that he thinks weeping in private makes things better - I think he weeps in private because he knows he sucks but is unable to fix himself. He is broken on a deep fundamental level. I don't want to see Annie forgive him for his past actions but I would love it if they were able to move on in a healthier way. I don't really think that's likely - I think he'll likely die or something in some way that proves he always loved her or something dumb/generic that gets him out of having to atone for his past deeds.

That's not really Tom's fault. It's a common enough technique in films and novels to sometimes hop out of the view point character's point of view but not reveal too much that way. What shouldn't matter is a convention of narration, but the impact it has on the audience. And if he wanted Tony to seem like a donkey cavity who utterly failed at being a parent and that Antimony is slowly becoming more emotionally distant and unstable, well, he did.

I wasn't trying to imply that Tom was at fault but I know I can be a bit negative when I 'talk' so I'm sorry if it came across that way I apologize. I just meant that the inconsistency can cause people to question certain story-telling decisions and makes certain things 'feel' weird.

It's things like this that make me wonder if the Court has something to do with this mess. Or even Coyote himself.

I think the Court was directly responsible for Surma + Tony hooking up. I think that that's what half the point of the story we were just told was. It wanted them at the tree watching a couple slugs bone in isolation because they wanted this series of events to unfold.

[Honest Tiefling]

I wasn't trying to imply that Tom was at fault but I know I can be a bit negative when I 'talk' so I'm sorry if it came across that way I apologize. I just meant that the inconsistency can cause people to question certain story-telling decisions and makes certain things 'feel' weird.

Perhaps I came across as too hostile. I just think it's a technique that is used commonly, and not a fault or flaw of the author. Of course, it's probably a highly confusing one, so needs to be done well is a point I'm willing to concede. I'm not a writer if you haven't figured it out, so I am not very good at writing out thoughts nor would I consider myself an expert on writing.

I think the Court was directly responsible for Surma + Tony hooking up. I think that that's what half the point of the story we were just told was. It wanted them at the tree watching a couple slugs bone in isolation because they wanted this series of events to unfold.

Oh good, I'm not just a weirdo for thinking that the Court or Coyote were involved in this family drama. Yes! Validation!

[Typewriter]

Perhaps I came across as too hostile. I just think it's a technique that is used commonly, and not a fault or flaw of the author. Of course, it's probably a highly confusing one, so needs to be done well is a point I'm willing to concede. I'm not a writer if you haven't figured it out, so I am not very good at writing out thoughts nor would I consider myself an expert on writing.

Oh good, I'm not just a weirdo for thinking that the Court or Coyote were involved in this family drama. Yes! Validation!

You didn't come across as hostile or anything - I just know that I'm the sort of person who usually only voices my opinion to complain about things or disagree with someone so I sometimes worry that when I'm making neutral commentary that it might come across as negative.

And yeah, I feel like the Court is probably involved but it's hard to tell. Once upon a time I complained (because that's what I do!) about this comic not moving the plot forward enough - for spending too much time on insignificant things. Someone said that I should look at it as more a character arc and not to worry so much about the 'mysteries' and things like that. But now the mysteries and the character arcs are finally intertwining so looking for things to have a greater meaning might have more value to it... or the entire point might just have been the story that was told with no ulterior motive.

[Vinyadan]

Tony working with Kat: possible reasons:
Lack a hand: build a muscletech handbot
Long term goal: Surmabot

[Honest Tiefling]

Long term goal: Surmabot

Because that's what Antimony needs, a realdoll version of her mother. This is what happens when your behind the scenes meddling screws up...

[Gez]

And I think that's the biggest point, and one that Annie herself is starting to really see now that it's obvious in front of her. Her father is perfectly willing to be a real person, even a funny and affectionate warm person, with virtually every single person in the universe as long as they are not named Antimony Carver. And, whether he knows it or not, he's doing it in exactly a way that leaves Annie alone and isolated, with even her best friend arrayed on the 'You're crazy, Annie, your dad's not so bad!' lines.

Seems like you forgot about Donny Dons. Reread the "Sneak" and "Annie and the Fire" chapters. More precisely, his conclusion of the situation.

"What you just saw doesn't excuse anything he did... I just wanted you to see this side of him. I'm not sure how else you would."

So here you go. You have one character who is there to support Annie, acknowledge Tony's faults, and explain the crux of the situation while recognizing he doesn't know how to fix it.

[Rodin]

See, I (personally) do care about those reasons because Tony reminds me of a lot of people I've known in my life (including, in some ways, myself). I don't think that he thinks weeping in private makes things better - I think he weeps in private because he knows he sucks but is unable to fix himself. He is broken on a deep fundamental level. I don't want to see Annie forgive him for his past actions but I would love it if they were able to move on in a healthier way. I don't really think that's likely - I think he'll likely die or something in some way that proves he always loved her or something dumb/generic that gets him out of having to atone for his past deeds.

I find that last unlikely - Tom has been pretty good about dealing with situations realistically - or at least, as realistically as a setting as weird as GC gets. He's also good at not playing into cliches - there aren't really any Special Ones, no Power of Friendship solving all of your problems, etc.

Something as predictable as Tony suddenly taking a bullet for Annie seems too straightforward.

[Typewriter]

I find that last unlikely - Tom has been pretty good about dealing with situations realistically - or at least, as realistically as a setting as weird as GC gets. He's also good at not playing into cliches - there aren't really any Special Ones, no Power of Friendship solving all of your problems, etc.

Something as predictable as Tony suddenly taking a bullet for Annie seems too straightforward.

You're correct - I probably should have said that that's the sort of thing I'm afraid will happen rather than something that I think will happen.

[guttering flame]

Seems like you forgot about Donny Dons. Reread the "Sneak" and "Annie and the Fire" chapters. More precisely, his conclusion of the situation.

"What you just saw doesn't excuse anything he did... I just wanted you to see this side of him. I'm not sure how else you would."

So here you go. You have one character who is there to support Annie, acknowledge Tony's faults, and explain the crux of the situation while recognizing he doesn't know how to fix it.

How much does that count for? Mr Donlan is understanding, sympathetic even but he's Tony's best friend, not Annie. He'd choose Tony over her. Only Eglamore is squarely on her side. And in her own age group who does she have without Cat? Especially after her father put her in the lower year.

[Gez]

How much does that count for? Mr Donlan is understanding, sympathetic even but he's Tony's best friend, not Annie. He'd choose Tony over her.

Please reread the comic since Microsat 5 and keep a running tally of the number of times Donlan has been friendly to Antimony compared to the number of times he's been friendly to Antony in the present times (so, excluding flashbacks).

If he were choosing Tony over Annie, do you think he'd have tricked Tony like he did? Do you think he'd have told Annie that Tony had no excuse?

He might have been Tony's best friend, but he's also a dad, and Annie is a child. That takes precedence.

[Vinyadan]

Let's say that being someone's best friend doesn't mean assuming that your b. f. is never at fault, or that he cannot hurt other people. Or that you will always side with your best friend, no matter what he does.

Also, the dinner and the whiskey also were group interaction vs one person.

[Fawkes]

Donnie Dons should adopt Annie. He's the best, most stable father figure for her. Ever other male adult in her life is some combination of evil, crazy, or carrying baggage about her mom.

[Tvtyrant]

Donnie Dons should adopt Annie. He's the best, most stable father figure for her. Ever other male adult in her life is some combination of evil, crazy, or carrying baggage about her mom.

Sounds like a typical step-dad!

But yes, they should have adopted Annie at the beginning of the series.

[Morty]

And I think that's the biggest point, and one that Annie herself is starting to really see now that it's obvious in front of her. Her father is perfectly willing to be a real person, even a funny and affectionate warm person, with virtually every single person in the universe as long as they are not named Antimony Carver. And, whether he knows it or not, he's doing it in exactly a way that leaves Annie alone and isolated, with even her best friend arrayed on the 'You're crazy, Annie, your dad's not so bad!' lines.

I'm still not sure how we got here from the Annie who refused to hear anything about her father doing anything wrong.

[Mith]

I'm still not sure how we got here from the Annie who refused to hear anything about her father doing anything wrong.

I could be wrong, but the most recent scene of denial, Annie had cut her emotions from herself. I do not think we have any scenes after she got her self back together that was her refusing to hear anything bad about Tony.