Midwest Mafia/Werewolf

[AvatarVecna]

How are we determining valid votes? First uncrossed vote from a person counts, or latest vote by a person counts, or what?

[Unavenger]

How are we determining valid votes? First uncrossed vote from a person counts, or latest vote by a person counts, or what?

Last valid vote, as specified in 179.

Vote the moon for dead 2020.

[AvatarVecna]

Last valid vote, as specified in 179.

Vote the moon for dead 2020.

Ah, I see, I need to read parts of posts that aren't replies to me directly. Whoops!

[Captain Cap]

Time to decree my vote (finally corrected the program and reread all my notes), but before a bit of analysis.

My first vote, to Mrs McGinty, was mainly a joke, but as Valmark pointed out right after, spamming votes at the beginning is quite scummy (and annoying), but apart from that (and a suspiciously premature association with Aventine) there is nothing from my point of view to warrant an elimination. I disagree with the ones who seem overly sure that she's towny, but at the same time, she's not enough wolfy.

About Aventine, I find strange how they and Mrs McGinty started being on the same page so soon, but what really makes me suspicious are some of their interventions, like the defence of gac3's flawed position and the minor accusation toward Valmark (who has been, from my point of view, one of the towniest players so far). Still, not enough to make him a total wolf in my eyes.

gac3 is the most suspicious of all, and, if it wasn't already clear, I disagree with Aventine position regarding that first "mistake".

Previously, I had mixed feelings about CaoihminTheCape too, but I just think the pressure of Aventine's poking got the better of them (in the end, townies don't want to be hanged as much as the wolfs). They didn't defend themself too badly, and there is no legitimate evidence for him being a wolf.

JeenLeen posted a lot, and they're one of the most coherent towny out there. I disagree with a few of their positions (like the kgato503 question), but there is nothing I can attribute to malice.

Regarding Valmark, I agree with a lot of his positions and I barely find anything suspicious about him. Furthermore, I sincerely hope he's townsfolk because we share the same time zone.

There is no compelling argument I can make about the others, so I'll just end here.

[Unavenger]

Captain, we're about to end the day. You can't actually lynch gac3 unless there's a sudden change in votes. The only real things you can do are lynch Caoimhin, or vote someone else with 2-3 votes, forcing a lynch on Logan.

(EDIT: To be clear, you can either vote Logan and he'll die, or Mcginty and I'll probably let RNGsus take the wheel, or me and I'll have to switch to logan or risk dying.)

Also you're wrong that "Townies don't want to be hanged just as much as the wolves". A wolf-lynch is far more devastating against the wolf team than a town-lynch is versus the town, due to the number of people on each team.

[Captain Cap]

Also you're wrong that "Townies don't want to be hanged just as much as the wolves". A wolf-lynch is far more devastating against the wolf team than a town-lynch is versus the town, due to the number of people on each team.

Wait a second, the way I usually played with my friends is that if someone dies he loses, regardless of which team wins in the end. Are things different here?

[Unavenger]

Wait a second, the way I usually played with my friends is that if someone dies he loses, regardless of which team wins in the end. Are things different here?

Yes. The entire team wins no matter who's dead. Otherwise the correct play as town would require you not to be too helpful, otherwise you get wolfkilled and lose, while also being helpful enough that town wins.

Also getting killed N1 for no good reason would kinda suck.

[JeenLeen]

Unavenger has persuaded me to switch to CaoimhinTheCape.
He's also invigorated my suspicion of Snowblaze. And I'm still suspicious of McGinty. But none of them are close to dying, so no reason to vote for them now.

...on deaths of auto-lynchees: I think, in power games, it benefits the town for a person who would auto-lynch to die, but I can see wanting the intel. Since we can't gain intel via night actions, but the wolves do kill us at night, seems good to let lynches give intel rather than be nigh-meaningless.

Also, are we doing 24-hour nights or 48-hour? Without night powers, the extra time seems less needed, and I've seen that as standard in some games in the far past.

- - - Updated - - -

As I didn't quote it, this post was the one that persuaded me: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...&postcount=180

[Grand Arbiter]

Libro: Lurk less post more.

1. I post when I have the time to be at my computer. Formatting on mobile sucks. and I have something to say. I try not to ramble in my online conversations like I do irl,
2. I read the forums offline. The "Last Activity" spot on my profile isn't accurate as to how often I do or do not view the forums.
3. I post when I have something I feel needs to be said.

If someone feels like voting up the person actually acting scummy rather than the person who's just not posting and will probably be autolynched end of day 2, that'd be grand.

Logan seems decidedly afk at this point and I dislike how my poke on afk became a wagon.
I'll shift to CaoimhinTheCape in the interest of not risking rng determining the lynch.

---

Second time there's half a dozen new posts in the span of me typing & proofreading mine. Idk if this has to slow down or I'm just that bad of a typer.

Edited to add: Thank you Unavenger for doing a vote tally last page. Edit 2 regardless of validity and that I'm now voting for you.

[Snowblaze]

UVC:

Unave 2 (Mrs McGinty, Snowblaze)
Rogue 1 (Aventine)
Avent 1 (kgato)
Valmark 1 (Lex-Kat)
Logan 4 (Unave, Duck999, Valmark, Libro)
CaoimhinTheCape 2 (AvatarVecna, Xihirli)
Mrs McGinty 2 (JeenLeen, gac3)
Gac3 1 (rogue)

Okay, so we have one vote on me because I'm... posting useful stuff, and one vote because of sheep, so FoS both of you.

(snip)

Snowblaze: How to put this... almost every post you've made is some degree of yikes, whether it's "I don't want to start a wagon but RNG demaaaaaaaaaands~" (Hint: RNG demands nothing of you. You have free will) through "Bah, I care not for you "LOGIC" and therefore I won't put up a proper defense" to "Man, this person has been analysing the game, better vote for them". Most telling is perhaps the fact that you claim to be keeping track of votes (#30) but also think that keeping track of votes is wolfish (#171). There's no universe in which you actually go out swinging today, but I don't have to like anything you're doing.


.

...where do I start? Firstly your vote count is incorrect (here's mine, which I'm 99% sure is accurate:
Mrs McGinty 1 (gac3)
Aventine 1 (kgato503)
Logan1996 5 (Libro, CaoimhinTheCape, AvatarVecna, Valmark, Duck999)
Rogue_alchemist 1 (Aventine)
CaoimhinTheCape 4 (Xihirli, Unavenger, JeenLeen, Libro)
gac3 2 (rogue_alchemist, Captain Cap)
Valmark 1 (Lex-Kat)
Unavenger 2 (Snowblaze, Mrs McGinty)
Didn't post: Logan1996)


Secondly, I'm voting for you because (up until now) you haven't posted much useful stuff (I guess the numbers are fairly useful).

Thirdly, your suspicions of me are... not right?

1. I know, I could have voted for someone else if I wanted to, but with only one post I didn't see anything better to do with my vote.

2. The "logic" I meant was Mrs McGinty's "Only a villain would..." which wasn't in any way a serious accusation. And I did defend myself against it, just for the record.

3. "Man, this person has been analysing the game, better vote for them"... where did I say anything to that effect?

4. As shown by this post, I am keeping track of votes, but I never said keeping track of votes was wolfish. I said the fact you were paying enough attention to keep track of votes but not (at the time) posting analysis was wolfish.

Definitely keeping my vote where it is: it seems like you're basically misinterpreting everything I say to make me look bad.

[AvatarVecna]

Spoiler: Unavenger's Vote Count Was Wrong

Show

Logan1996

CaoimhinTheCape

Mrs. McGinty

gac3

Mrs McGinty

Logan1996

Logan1996[/B]

Logan1996

Logan1996

Valmark

Aventine

rogue_alchemist

Unavenger

Unavenger

CaoimhinTheCape

Hmm.

UVC:

Unave 2 (Mrs McGinty, Snowblaze)
Rogue 1 (Aventine)
Avent 1 (kgato)
Valmark 1 (Lex-Kat)
Logan 3 (Duck999, Valmark, Libro)
CaoimhinTheCape 3 (AvatarVecna, Xihirli, Unave)
Mrs McGinty 2 (JeenLeen, gac3)
Gac3 1 (rogue)

This is what Unavenger said the vote count was after counting their own vote for Cao. What I've got recorded as the true vote count at that point is:

Aventine (1): kgato503
CaoimhinTheCape (2): Unavenger, Xihirli
gac3 (1): rogue_alchemist
Logan1996 (5): AvatarVecna, CaoimhinTheCape, Duck999, Libro, Valmark
Mrs. McGinty (2): gac3, JeenLeen
rogue_alchemist (1): Aventine
Unavenger (2): Mrs. McGinty, Snowblaze
Valmark (1): Lex-Kat

EDIT: To be clear, I have this spoiler'd because while it's correcting the vote-count, it's correcting the vote-count as it stood like ten minutes ago or whatever, which is now wildly out of date. What I've posted here isn't the current vote-count, just a correction of the previous one.

[Mrs McGinty]

Unavenger posting a bunch of condescending reads telling everyone how badly they're playing this game is deeply wolfy under the circumstances.

I think we're doing good, and the wolves are starting to worry.

Edit: It reads like Unavenger is looking for reasons to criticise people rather than reasons to actually suspect them. It's not a town process, it's an impression of it from a wolf who doesn't know how to fake it properly.

[Unavenger]

Yes, I missed some votes. It's because I'm tired, ill, and not focusing well.

Also I don't know that "Quickly checking through the thread but not getting specific reads because I don't have time right now" is a wolf play either. You're grasping at straws.

EDIT: MMG, asking people to post more so we actually have something to analyse isn't a scum move, you colossal wolf.

[AvatarVecna]

Unavenger posting a bunch of condescending reads telling everyone how badly they're playing this game is deeply wolfy under the circumstances.

I think we're doing good, and the wolves are starting to worry.

I don't disagree, but I'm also not changing my vote at the moment.

[Mrs McGinty]

It reads like Unavenger is looking for reasons to criticise people rather than reasons to actually suspect them. It's not a town process, it's an impression of it from a wolf who doesn't know how to fake it properly.

(posted again because the edit came after people responded to the original)

[Captain Cap]

As things stand, I don't want to lynch CaoihminTheCape and, aside from that, I can't really do anything to influence Logan1996's fate, so for now I won't change my vote.

[Valmark]

Regarding Valmark, I agree with a lot of his positions and I barely find anything suspicious about him. Furthermore, I sincerely hope he's townsfolk because we share the same time zone.

I had absolutely missed your location, we aren't simply from the same timezone. We are pretty much neighbors. Statistically speaking, that's awesome.

Of course we could be from the opposite ends of Tuscany, but whatever.

Also I was going to change my vote to try and get lynched one of those most suspicious to me since there's no more risk of Ginty dying, but you all just confused me. Thanks. I'll leave it be until I've checked the actual votes but I will not post a list.

[Unavenger]

It reads like Unavenger is looking for reasons to criticise people rather than reasons to actually suspect them. It's not a town process, it's an impression of it from a wolf who doesn't know how to fake it properly.

(posted again because the edit came after people responded to the original)

Oh trust me, I know how to play wolf. But I'm not. Bouncing around a bunch isn't a town play. Unvoting without saying so isn't a town play. These aren't just bad game plays, they're scum indicators, and I hope to lynch at least one of you before you get me mislynched.

[Mrs McGinty]

EDIT: MMG, asking people to post more so we actually have something to analyse isn't a scum move, you colossal wolf.

We have tons to analyse, and you're very late to the party in providing any real content.

And calling me a colossal wolf just rings totally false.

You're squirming because you can see the writing on the wall.

[Snowblaze]

Yes, I missed some votes. It's because I'm tired, ill, and not focusing well.

Also I don't know that "Quickly checking through the thread but not getting specific reads because I don't have time right now" is a wolf play either. You're grasping at straws.

EDIT: MMG, asking people to post more so we actually have something to analyse isn't a scum move, you colossal wolf.

Fair enough on the "tired and ill" front. I don't think an incorrect vote count is suspicious.

And "Quickly checking through the thread but not getting specific reads" isn't what you were doing. You were misinterpreting everything I said. I've explained my actual reasoning behind those posts, whereas you've misquoted and twisted my words to make me look like a wolf.

So, questions:

1. So you're now saying you don't want Logan to be lynched. Why, then, did you put a sixth vote on them?

2. Where did I vote someone for trying to analyse?

[Captain Cap]

Of course we could be from the opposite ends of Tuscany, but whatever.

I live in Arezzo, so yeah ...

We are pretty much neighbors.

[AvatarVecna]

The strongest argument I've seen for keeping my vote right where it is, is how a counterwagon has apparated out of thin air with minutes to Phase End. The second-strongest argument is that I've got only vague suspicions that aren't strong enough to act on at this point, and without having a strong feeling I know who to lynch to get a wolf, I'd rather off an inactive townie than an active one.

[Unavenger]

We have tons to analyse, and you're very late to the party in providing any real content.

And calling me a colossal wolf just rings totally false.

You're squirming because you can see the writing on the wall.

We have tons to analyse FROM A SMALL FRACTION OF THE PLAYER BASE. That's not enough to get reads from everyone. It's entirely possible that every single wolf is in the set of people who've posted almost nothing.

All I see is the two people who were voting me for crap reasons anyway death tunneling me. It's not the most convincing thing under the sun, let me tell you.

I actually want everyone to post, so we can tell who the wolves are, and then I want to lynch the goddamn wolves. Is that so wrong?

Fair enough on the "tired and ill" front. I don't think an incorrect vote count is suspicious.

And "Quickly checking through the thread but not getting specific reads" isn't what you were doing. You were misinterpreting everything I said. I've explained my actual reasoning behind those posts, whereas you've misquoted and twisted my words to make me look like a wolf.

So, questions:

1. So you're now saying you don't want Logan to be lynched. Why, then, did you put a sixth vote on them?

2. Where did I vote someone for trying to analyse?

As you noticed, I didn't realise how many votes were on them, and voted for them to try to force them to talk.

You voted for me for checking through everyone's votes so we could do vote analysis, even though you claim you were doing the same thing. Yes, yes, apparently you think I'm trying not to post anything actually helpful, but I don't buy that.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

tl;dr Want to get this in before the deadline, but I'll probably have more to say in a bit. I'm still comfortable voting someone who hasn't been here rather than try to read into "slip ups" on Day 1 with no info. By all means, we should look back at them once someone was killed N1 and we can see how people interacted with a confirmed town. Until then, innocents who have no knowledge could easily be mistaken for wolves.

From what I know switching around the vote several times is considered a wolf move by better players then me, so I guess Mrs. McGinty.

Apparently? I can get the reasoning, at least. A wolf would try to confuse town this way. I don't actually agree with it, but I don't agree with plenty of the pre-established rules.

Joins the McGinty wagon just before me, deflects reasoning as "what other people consider wolfy". Immediately after says they don't agree with that rule?

- CaoimhinTheCape would be equal, but the random vote starts being suspicious around this time in my opinion, especially since they admitted to it too, and I know from Snow and Xi that wolves accusing themselves is actually fairly likely to happen and go unnoticed (in Snow's case);

And then starts to suspect me? I guess I just missed the cutoff for early random votes but Val is ok with that reasoning?


AvatarVecna - Neutral - votes themselves couple times, from what I gather this is in character. Still not something I'd recommend by page five or six of Day 1? Talks about general strategy a bit.
gac3
Valmark - Slight wolf - FoS for voting McGinty and saying they don't believe in the reason they're voting McGinty. (See Above)
Logan1996 - No read - has not been here.
kgato503 - makes a vote early on, replies to a question on it.
Aventine - Town - consistently pushing others for more information on their votes. So far I like them.
Snowblaze - Slight town? - talkative early, I like the participation
rogue_alchemist - a one line vote
Captain Cap - very slight town? - longer posts late in the day. I'm ok with for now? but not sure the vote on gac3 will do anything with an hour left in the day?
Unavenger - Wolf? - talks a little bit during the day, but only really comes in near the end of the day. Jumps on my wagon when it has picked up steam. If I die, keep an eye on them piling on to a town lynch.
JeenLeen - some discussion early on, jumps on McGinty as people are getting off the wagon.
Xihirli? - No read - somehow I still don't have an opinion yet?
Libro - No read - not around enough to decide yet
Lex-Kat - No read - really hasn't talked much at all.
Duck999 - No read - doesn't like day 1 lynches.
Mrs. McGinty - Town? - participating a lot, voting a lot. Early on the posts didn't have much content, but that changed quickly. I like the fact that there is analysis but I'm not completely sold on town. More looking to how they act on Day 2, rather than voting people to get them talking.



Since my vote was not included in the last voting page, I'll make sure i'm voting Logan1996. At this point I like an Unavenger vote or maybe Valmark, but I'd also rather not die.

[Grand Arbiter]

Last edited by Snowblaze; Today at 10:30 AM. Reason: Updating vote count because ninjas

*puts away cardboard Katana and sulks off to work on stealth training to not be noticed next time*

---

Was just gonna joke around but the thread imploded. Unavenger's posts feel fishy, and while they could be working off of some bad logic, neither of those is good for town's well-being.

[AvatarVecna]

At this point I like an Unavenger vote

I'm game if you are. Unavenger.

[Unavenger]

Ah, well. When I flip town, Caomhin, MMG, and Snowblaze for the dead 2020. Thank you all and good night.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

If I'm counting right, I need to vote Unavenger or else it'll be me.

[AvatarVecna]

Ah, well. When I flip town, Caomhin, MMG, and Snowblaze for the dead 2020. Thank you all and good night.

That may well be true. Your death gives some interesting information either way.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Ah, well. When I flip town, Caomhin, MMG, and Snowblaze for the dead 2020. Thank you all and good night.

So I get the suspicion on me, but of your wagon I'm going to be most suspect of Libro if anyone. He was convinced by your post to vote me, then by me to vote you? As much as that helps me it's a real quick switch.