OOTS #707 - The Discussion Thread

[Yendor]

Elves are, as you say, awesome.

[Drolyt]

Can we have a temporary lift of the 'morally justified' threads ban?

Because I think we need it.


However, I do think that was the wisest course of action, even if I don't agree with that elf's reasons.

Morally justified threads ban? What's that?

[Ancalagon]

Nice comic.

Spoiler

Show

As the kings in SoD.

[Covenantwgw]

Wow...that was simultaneously cold blooded, and totally awesome!

We need to give that Elven Lieutenant a name!

Edit: Oh and the commander of course. *facepalm on my own behalf*

[Solara]

I saw the joke coming and I know it was funny but I can't really laugh. I feel bad for the hobgoblin. :( I know, I know, it's 99& likely he was an evil little bastard that was helping to kill and enslave the Azurites and would have ratted them out the first chance he got, but I can't help it, it's just an instinctive reaction to watching a (scared, cooperative) person in a completely helpless position get killed. And it doesn't help at all that the commander guy made a joke about it...if it had to be done I would have preferred them to just be straight up stone cold efficient about it. STAB. "Sorry, can't take any chances, I'm sure you understand."

...but I have a feeling this is going to be just the first of many pages of alignment debate, (and I'm sure the Giant was aware of it when he made this comic too...he knows his audience) so I'm not going to carry on too much.

It is cool that this is the first real character development we've seen for Team Peregrine, I've been wanting to know more about them for awhile, and now if nothing else it's clear that they're not going to be squeaky clean good guys.

...also interesting that it's implied that Thanh still kind of is, they must know he wouldn't approve if they're going to make a point of not even mentioning it.

[Elfey]

Sigh, more of the pretty pinkish races keeping down the rest. Will this cycle never end?

[Draxonicar]

Alright, figured I'd be the first to pose the question:

For the sake of a cheap gag, the commander killed a possibly-innocent prisoner. They have freaking clerics, just divine whether or not he is telling the truth or not!


But noooo... They killed him on the OFF CHANCE he might be a spy.


[/rage]

[Ancalagon]

Wow...that was simultaneously cold blooded, and totally awesome!

No, it was simply evil. Something an antagonist would do.

[Moff Chumley]

Elves=kill it with fire.

Take that as you will.

[Zanaril]

Morally justified threads ban? What's that?

Once we started seeing things to the effect of "are 'morally justified' threads morally justified?", there was a general consensus not to create any more because they were just ending up as jokes. Here, however, there may be something worth discussing.

And while elves - in general - may be awesome, that elf is not.

[Drolyt]

No, it was simply evil. Something an antagonist would do.

Yeah, that was pretty damn sick. You don't kill a defenseless prisoner. At least now we see where V gets it from, honestly this is more evil than what V did, at least V had the excuse that he was under enormous stress and trying to protect his loved ones, what excuse did that Elven commander have?

[Gredival]

The hobgoblin says the reason he was imprisoned is that he doesn't like the greenskin goblins. He gives no indication he is good aligned or innocent. So even if he wasn't a spy, he is still a hobgoblin. He might have Redcloak higher on his "people I dislike" list than the resistance but he probably has no qualms about killing innocents and what not. There's no reason to spare him.

[Lamorak]

He probably has a biff with Goblins, if he's a ranger he likely has goblinoids as his "favored" prey. I'm guessing he's either clashed with them before in battle or they killed his loved ones ages ago.

Was he morally justified? Well lets see, he was likely hand picked for this mission by his superiors for his skills and willingness to do what was needed. They don't have the resources to take care of anyone that might be a liability, what he did was necessary.

[Drolyt]

Once we started seeing things to the effect of "are 'morally justified' threads morally justified?", there was a general consensus not to create any more because they were just ending up as jokes. Here, however, there may be something worth discussing.

And while elves - in general - may be awesome, that elf is not.

I see. While, what that Elf did was sure as hell not morally justified, but there are already people posting that he was awesome, I'm not sure what to say. This is the type of thing that could too easily turn into a flame, especially on one of the comic discussion threads where lots of people see it.

But yeah, I guess that while I can hope that the other Elves aren't bastards like that, I don't think The Giant would have made this strip if that was the case. I think he's probably trying to tell us "nope, the Elves aren't any nicer to goblins than the Azurites are".

[Mystic Muse]

No more morally justified threads unless it's something that actually makes sense to be arguing.

I think that most of us agree that that was just sick and wrong of the guy to do.

[Gundato]

Also, it has been long established that pretty much all goblinoids are fair game. Paladins don't fall from slaughtering women and children during raiding parties, so no reason that the leader of a strike force would worry about a potentially dissenting goblin.

[SPoD]

Well, there goes my theory that the Elves wouldn't be jerks like the Sapphire Guard. Good comic, but it would be nice if we met someone who didn't treat Goblins like monsters just because they look different. So far Roy, Durkon, and Elan are the only characters we know of that have ever treated an NPC race like a sentient being with actual worth.

I'm pretty sure this is the entire point of the goblin subplot. This IS how the goblins are treated because they look different. This is they way the world is. If the everyday people in the world treated the goblins with respect and dignity, there would be no plot, because Redcloak wouldn't need to do what he's doing in the first place. Roy and company are the heroes precisely because they think for themselves.

This comic reminds us of the backdrop against which all of the villains' actions are set. Without it, Redcloak's actions make no sense.

[GooeyChewie]

Probably not. And I doubt the elf cares.

[Zanaril]

Yeah, that was pretty damn sick. You don't kill a defenseless prisoner. At least now we see where V gets it from, honestly this is more evil than what V did, at least V had the excuse that he was under enormous stress and trying to protect his loved ones, what excuse did that Elven commander have?

It's not killing the golbin I have a problem with, it's that the reason - the explicitly stated reason - is that he's a goblin.

Not because he might turn on then. Not even because it's a waste of resources. And he obviously enjoyed killing him.

In my opinion, this is exactly as evil as V killing those dragons was; it's only the scale that differs.

[Jokasti]

Falcorvius and Eagluvius?

[Drolyt]

No more morally justified threads unless it's something that actually makes sense to be arguing.

I think that most of us agree that that was just sick and wrong of the guy to do.

Judging by comments to the effect that he was awesome, I'm not sure everyone does agree, although I wish we did.

[Covenantwgw]

No, it was simply evil. Something an antagonist would do.

Hmm...I can see why you would think so, but if you consider the story of OOTS as a cinematic adventure, I think I see the archetype the elven commander was portraying. In most "war" movies, you almost always see a battle-hardened no-nonsense veteran who is totally capable of acts of remorseless violence, while not in fact being villains or other antagonistic types.

I think perhaps that's what Rich was going for here, and personally I can sympathize with the commander. There is a possibility that the hobgoblin was in fact exactly what he seemed to be...albeit a very slim one. Goblins who rewrite history are not usually prone to locking up there own alongside the prisoners/slaves. At the very least he would have been kept in a different prison. However slim that chance might have been, had the elf made that decision he would have been putting the entire resistance, along with his allies and underlings lives at risk.

The cold-blooded nature of the killing aside, I think from a purely military point of view he made the right decision.

[Jokasti]

Also, it was for the git and shiggles. I mean, it was a joke. In a comic. Let's not get to caught up here, fellas.

[Zanaril]

Also, it was for the git and shiggles. I mean, it was a joke. In a comic. Let's not get to caught up here, fellas.

What gives you that idea?

[Astrella]

Another reason for me to root for the goblins.

[Drolyt]

In my opinion, this is exactly as evil as V killing those dragons was; it's only the scale that differs.

No, it was worse. V killed those Dragons out of revenge and a desire to protect his family. That Elven commander killed that Goblin simply because he was a Goblin. Yes V's act was on a greater scale, but that Elven commander didn't care about the Goblin's life at all; there is no indication that V feels the same way about Dragons.

[Mystic Muse]

Judging by comments to the effect that he was awesome, I'm not sure everyone does agree, although I wish we did.

thats why I said most and not all.

[Jokasti]

What gives you that idea?

The idea that it was for an alignment joke? I'd have to go with observational evidence.

[Woodsman]

Elves? Awesome?

Eh, I disagree.

Anyone else think "17 types" referred to Pokemon at first?

[Eldariel]

No, it was simply evil. Something an antagonist would do.

Oh c'mon, that's just standard military protocol: Spies are killed on sight, or tortured for info and then killed; he was merciful there. That was a wee bit too obvious an infiltration attempt to really do anything else.