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Thread: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
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2010-01-25, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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[ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Wee Jas is not the only deity to appreciate the Sublime Path. Here are variants for all the core deities and a few less-known ones who fit well. Each variant has a different name, different signature school, and different 5th level special ability. The hide skill is replaced in both the prerequisites and the class skill list with the key skill for the new signature school. Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven and the other special abilities remain available.
For example, a Cleric of Kord with 2 devoted spirit maneuvers and 4 ranks in escape artist, 4 in intimidate and 8 in knowledge(religion) could become a Sublime Brawling Vindicator, learn Devoted Spirit, Monkey's Paw, Stone Dragon and White Raven maneuvers, and gain powerful build at 5th level.
I tried to balance stronger disciplines with weaker abilities and vice versa and to make the battle-happy gods a little stronger while keeping everything flavourful, but it's hard to judge power. I hope I did well.
Name AL Name School Ability Kord CG Sublime Brawling Monkey's Paw Treat yourself as one size category larger than you are when it is beneficial to do so (e.g. weapons, grappling). This stacks with actual size changes but not powerful build. Trithereon CG Needed Rebel Army of One Immunity to all hostile compulsions, fear effects and moral effects Corellan CG Dancing Guard Scarlet Rose Channel spell 3/day Garl Glittergold CG Fortuitous Scoundrel Coin's Edge Gain a +20 luck bonus on one skill check a day Yondalla CN Enduring Warden Dancing Leaf As an immediate action, you may cause a willing ally within 30 ft to execute a counter you have readied (and granted if relevant). This also counts as the ally's immediate/swift action for the round. The maneuver is expended. Once you use this, you cannot use it again until you have rested for 5 minutes. Olidammara CN Wise Fool Oncoming Storm* As a swift action, make sleight of hand check opposed by enemy's spot -- on success, enemy is flat footed against next attack Procon CN Crashing Wave Ocean Soul You are unaffected by inclement weather Erythnul CE Blood Encrusted Infinite Torment Whenever you kill a living creature with at least one hit die, you heal 1hp for each hit die it had Gruumsh CE Conquering Warlord Broken Blade For one round a day, you may add your initiator level to your strength score as a profane bonus Lolth CE Spinning Web Chthonic Serpent Gain a special 5th level Boost, Tainted Web, which may be readied and used as normal. This Boost does not count as any Discipline. As a Swift action, create and apply a poison (1d3 Str damage primary, 1 Str damage secondary, Fort save DC 15 + your Wis modifier) which is used against the next target you attempt a grapple check against while using the coated weapon. If the target fails his save against the primary damage, he applies this damage before rolling his own Grapple check. Ehlonna NG Growing Leaf Gentle Breeze Animal Companion (as druid 1/3 of initiator level) Pelor NG Burning Light Desert Wind Raise Dead 1/day as sla (no material components) Boccob N Dread Scholar Untamed Essence Bardic Knowledge (uses initiator level) Fharlanghn N Far Wandering Setting Sun Teleport at will Obad-Hai N Wild Lands Tiger Claw Hide in plain sight in natural terrain Mak Thuum Ngatha N Incarnate Madness Far Realm +2 to all saves you roll and all save DCs inflict you regarding confusion or insanity Zuoken N Polished Blade Diamond Mind Proficiency with all Exotic Weapons Nerull NE Death Lord Narrow Bridge Summon 6hd of zombies or skeletons as standard action sla 3/day Vecna NE Lost Whisper Dread Crown Immunity to all mind reading (including detect evil, detect thought, discern lies, etc.) Heironeous LG Bright Champion Iron Heart Divine Grace Rao LG Serene Hero Knowing Heart Add Wis to all saves Bahamut LG Standing Claw Golden Saint Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a metallic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level. Moradin LG Steadfast Stone Steel Mountain When using a warhammer and a shield, you may treat the warhammer as two-handed Murlynd LG Holy Six-Shooting Black Rain** Conjure 6 units of ammunition for the ranged weapon you are holding as a standard action at will Wee Jas LN Ruby Knight Shadow Hand Armored Stealth St. Cuthbert LN Eternal Retribution Quicksilver Aegis Karmic Strike Hextor LE Dark Overlord Ninefold Damnation Summon 6hd of devils as standard action sla 3/day Tiamat LE Stretching Bite Rending Scream Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a chromatic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level.
* In sillier campaigns, Wise Fool Vindicators use Falling Anvil, and their special ability is just feint as a swift action.
** Campaigns without firearms are advised to omit Murlynd altogether, as he is likely to invent them. If that isn't an option, substitute True Arrow and use truly magnificent crossbows.Last edited by dspeyer; 2015-06-03 at 10:39 PM.
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2010-01-25, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
This is interesting. May I suggest that post a note to the Age of Warriors theads about this? This mght reasonably fit in as a useful addition to that.
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2010-01-25, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
I am very much aware of that thread. I figured I'd give the forum a crack at finding flaws in this before I submitted it there.
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2010-01-25, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
How about Myrlund?
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2010-01-25, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Why is Zuoken getting Exotic Weapon Proficiency? And is that for a specific weapon? It seems a bit odd. I would have thought something psionic related or monk related, like getting to deal unarmed damage like a monk.
Also, if I can make a suggestion for another one: Mak Thuum Ngatha should have the associated discipline be Far Realm. But I'm not sure what ability would be thematically appropriate.
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2010-01-25, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
He's the god of monks, and monks use weird weapons. Even his favoured weapon (nunchaku) is exotic. The ability to pick up a psuedonatural gnomish triple hooked hammer (yes, I made that up) and know what to do with it seems very thematic. It isn't very powerful, but Diamond Mind is.
I hadn't heard of either of those deities, how's this:
{table]Deity|AL|Name|School|Ability
Mak Thuum Ngatha|N|Incarnate Madness|Far Realm|+2 to all saves you roll and all save DCs inflict you regarding confusion or insanity
Myrlund|LG|Holy Six-Shooting|Black Rain*|Conjure 6 units of ammunition for the ranged weapon you are holding as a standard action at will
[/table]
* In campaigns without firearms, substitute True ArrowLast edited by dspeyer; 2010-01-25 at 01:34 AM.
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2010-01-25, 01:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Never heard of Zuoken before, but if he favors Monks, then one reasonable hypothesis is that they get the exotic weapon proficiencies for all the exotic monk weapons (Sai, Siangham, Nunchaku, kama).
As for Mak Thuum Ngatha (who I also hadn't heard of), let me throw out a few ideas at random:
Confusion as an SLA 1/day, but with the DC scaling as 10 + 1/2 IL + (Ability Score), rather than being fixed.
As above, but a strike rather than a ranged ability
Lose 2 points from all mental ability scores, but DCs for all Far Realms maneuvers increase by 3 (or more).[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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2010-01-25, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
[QUOTE=DracoDei;7760132]Never heard of Zuoken before, but if he favors Monks, then one reasonable hypothesis is that they get the exotic weapon proficiencies for all the exotic monk weapons (Sai, Siangham, Nunchaku, kama).[QUOTE]
That seems to make sense. (Zuoken incidentally is a god of monks and psionics. Originally in the Greyhawk setting but also appears in some other settings. The SRD "Psionic Fist" monk/psion hybrid is actually the "Fist of Zuoken" from Expanded Psionics with the flavor stripped off.
As for Mak Thuum Ngatha (who I also hadn't heard of)
Confusion as an SLA 1/day, but with the DC scaling as 10 + 1/2 IL + (Ability Score), rather than being fixed.
As above, but a strike rather than a ranged ability
Lose 2 points from all mental ability scores, but DCs for all Far Realms maneuvers increase by 3 (or more).
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2010-01-25, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-25, 01:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
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2010-01-25, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
I just realized I left out the racial deities! Oops. Here are some:
Name AL Name School Ability Bahamut LG Standing Claw Golden Saint Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a metallic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level. Tiamat LE Stretching Bite Rending Scream Pick a breath weapon you do not already have from a chromatic dragon, use it once per day. Damage and save for a dragon with hit dice equal to your initiator level. Moradin LG Steadfast Stone Steel Mountain When using a warhammer and a shield, you may treat the warhammer as two-handed Corellan CG Dancing Guard Scarlet Rose Channel spell 3/day Yondalla CN Enduring Warden Dancing Leaf As an immediate action, you may cause a willing ally within 30 ft to execute a counter you have readied (and granted if relevant). This also counts as the ally's immediate/swift action for the round. The maneuver is expended. Once you use this, you cannot use it again until you have rested for 5 minutes. Gruumsh CE Conquering Warlord Broken Blade For one round a day, you may add your initiator level to your strength score as a profane bonus Garl Glittergold CG Fortuitous Scoundrel Coin's Edge Gain a +20 luck bonus on one skill check a day Last edited by dspeyer; 2015-06-03 at 10:45 PM.
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2010-01-25, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Yondalla's PROBABLY needs to specify that the target ally has to use the usual action for the counter... but not necessarily.
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2010-01-25, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
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2010-01-25, 02:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
IE it costs the person who gets the benefit of the counter an immediate action AS WELL as costing your immediate action.
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2010-01-25, 02:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Yeah, I think this would be a good addition to the AoW project.
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2010-01-25, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
May I suggest Scarlet Bravura in place of Army of One for Trithereon?
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2010-01-25, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Here are some other options to throw in with Skeletons and Zombies (not the Skins, or the Bladders when I do them though... just the mindless stuff).
How to get a bunch of Undead out of one corpse:
Zooming Brain: Fly past on barely controlled course damaging all mental abilities for a brief duration.
Fat Glob: Slow, weak, but LOTS of HD, and a fatigue effect if it hits.
Rolling Eyeball: Scouts, spies, and roving patrols. Zero offensive capabilities unless taken from something with a gaze attack or eye-rays.
Floating Lungs: (based around the Shout spell). Feel free to suggest a better name...
Hopping Stomach: Spits acid.
Gut Snake: Undead intestines that fight with constriction, filth, and odor. Comment HERE.
Dark Hearts: Literally pulsing with negative energy these repair the undead near them, and damage the living.
(Skulking Bladders (with attached kidneys) probably coming next. But also have plans for crawling livers, and slithering spinal cords. )
Also, a belated thanks for taking the trouble to include Falling Anvil as an alternate.Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-25 at 10:38 AM.
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2010-01-25, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-01-25, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
I don't see it. Clerics of Trithereon are often going to be alone. Giving them a fighting style that depends on having followers, or even allies, seems rather dubious.
I could see giving Heironious Scarlet Bravura, and angel-summoning as a cleaner contrast to Hextor, but I'd need to reshuffle a bunch of other things and I'm not sure it would work out. Plus, I don't want to imply that White Raven is the evil version, when many more core-oriented players will still be using it.
I suppose I could bring in Lirr for Scarlet Bravura. I wanted to include her from the beginning, and she has the whole perform(oratory) thing, but it's pretty weak.Looking for a monster? Making a monster?
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2010-01-25, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
dracodei: While those undead look really cool, I think what I've offered is too flexible already.
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2010-01-25, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
I've integrated all the additions into the original post.
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2010-01-25, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
That was good to do... I was planning on suggesting it at one point, but forgot.
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2010-01-26, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
I'm glad that this has been done, but does this mean that sublime brawling vindicators get access to one fewer school than other vindicators (as ruby knight vindicators are listed as having access to stone dragon in ToB)
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2010-01-26, 01:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-26 at 01:03 AM.
[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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2010-01-26, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
The Good Cat Mistress shall show mercy to her servants
My Homebrew
SpoilerRace
Wiggles
Monsters
Cold iron dragon
Argent dragon
Base Class
Glowherd
Silly stuff
Acid classes (as inspired by DracoDei)
Keeper of the Fourth Gate (PrC)
Competitions
Afroakuma's Giantitp Villain Competition
Other
Sereg's Alternative Pronunciation Guide System
Competitions that I've Currently Entered: Lord Gareth's The Alter of Naught Base Class Challenge
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2010-01-26, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Chthonic Serpent, of course, has a number of grappling-related abilities, but they're not really wrestling, they're wrapping people up in chains. Sort of maybe Kord-like?
Actually, though...
{table=head]Deity | AL | Name | Discipline | Ability
Lolth | CE | Spinning Web | Chthonic Serpent | Gain a special 5th level Boost, Tainted Web, which may be readied and used as normal. This Boost does not count as any Discipline.[br][br]Tainted Web[br]As a Swift action, create and apply a poison (1d3 Str damage primary, 1 Str damage secondary, Fort save DC 15 + your Wis modifier) which is used against the next target you attempt a grapple check against while using the coated weapon. If the target fails his save against the primary damage, he applies this damage before rolling his own Grapple check.[/table]Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2010-01-28 at 09:31 PM.
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2010-01-26, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Expletive! Long string of expletives that are inappropriate for this forum!
Thank you for catching that, Sereg. Better now than later. I misremembered RKV as having just Devoted Spirit and Shadow Hand. Rechecking the book, it also has Stone Dragon and White Raven. Kord and Hextor need new disciplines.
I like an unarmed or grappling discipline for Kord. I don't see the Fool's Grip you mentioned, but I did find Monkey's Paw. I don't know why that got omitted from Age of Warriors.
For Hextor, I don't see anything better than Ninefold Damnation. We can even keep the summoning power.Looking for a monster? Making a monster?
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2010-01-26, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
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2010-01-26, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Well, I chose 15 because it's supposed to count as a 5th level maneuver. Forgot to say that in the description, though.
By the way, due to the weirdness of breaks in tables, you'll have to change the angle brackets in the <br>'s to square brackets. Unfortunately, they'll revert to angle brackets every time you edit the post, so maybe it'd be better just to take them out. *shrug*
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2010-01-26, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [ToB] Alternate Vindicators
Setting Sun is the wrong feel for Kord... it is thematically about using your enemy's strength against them. Kord is about being stronger than everyone. I agree that Fool's Grip is better. And you see I found you the link. Granted "Tumble" as the associated skill MIGHT be argued to be less Kord-like than "Sense Motive" but I can see a follower of Kord practicing their Greco-Roman wrestling with someone who is trying to get there next rank of Escape Artist, and has no interest in actually trying to win in the usual sense, then accepting when the slippery fellow offers to teach them how to do a somersault in return. Not sure if that is better than whatever else was found however, but I think it does have the "brawling feel".
P.S. And the entry for Lloth is good to go in my opinion. Very good work. Just for flavor, you might say that if Net isn't on the list for Cthonic Serpent associated weapons they can add it... of course that might mean they can ANIMATE the net with their own strength, but that applies almost as much to using a spiked chain at the extreme end of its reach with the grappling maneuvers of that discipline.Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-26 at 03:43 PM.
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