Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

[Kaptin Keen]

So .. Elf Guy (his name is actually Ephiscoban, but that's less important than the fact that he's an elf) won the game resoundingly. Where Troll Guy had to trick his way into a win, Elf Guy literally just slaughtered everything on D:50. The balors were all petrified, and while Fistinarius scared me witless for awhile, I eventually discovered he's only immune to fire. So leading him to a narrow space and firing lightning bolts did for him most satisfactorily.

And then I closed the gate, and that was that. Scored some 12-13 million points. Reached level 50, but only because I discovered just after closing the gate, that I was level 49, and close to 50. So I killed a few mobs on my way, happened upon a karmic wyrm, and that gave me enough to level.

I also led little Blub home - and never received my trident, which was slightly disappointing. I'd almost certainly never have used it, because I was so happy with Rolf's old gear, but still. It was a quest reward I never received.

Disappointing thing about ADOM: By the end, my wizard Elf Guy was considerably stronger in melee than Troll Guy, who was a melee character. I think I'm officially done with ADOM - even if I'm currently considering building a thief, just to see it in action. But I guess the only way stealth really works is with archery. And also, I guess you just never have enough ammo.

Oh, in other news: I bought Cloud Chasers - which is sort of slightly rogue-like-ish - but I'm thus far not really enchanted. It's pretty hard, though.

[zlefin]

ToME:
mmy rogue made it to the pridelands, then died. he'd had some deaths beforehand too, so 'twas his last. I found the antimagic tree very helpful for him; especially since it cut down on melee reflect damage with the antimagic shield.

made an alchemist, which I didn't like much play-wise and died some so I just let it go pretty early.

started an archer, who's going well, seems really effective and tough.

one thing I often wonder is how best to spend category points; I'm still assessing the effects of various options. I've often thought of upgrading the bonus I get in a category; but usually when I look at the actual effects, they're too small to be worthwhile, even if I have 5 points in each skill in the category. so I end up getting an inscription slot or opening up a tree with some nice passives.

[factotum]

ToME:
started an archer, who's going well, seems really effective and tough.

one thing I often wonder is how best to spend category points; I'm still assessing the effects of various options. I've often thought of upgrading the bonus I get in a category; but usually when I look at the actual effects, they're too small to be worthwhile, even if I have 5 points in each skill in the category. so I end up getting an inscription slot or opening up a tree with some nice passives.

Archer is a very strong class, and I would definitely recommend opening up the Sniper tree. For one thing, it gives you +3 range via the Concealment skill, which means you can snipe enemies before they're aware of your presence on an open enough map.

[Anteros]

ToME:
mmy rogue made it to the pridelands, then died. he'd had some deaths beforehand too, so 'twas his last. I found the antimagic tree very helpful for him; especially since it cut down on melee reflect damage with the antimagic shield.

made an alchemist, which I didn't like much play-wise and died some so I just let it go pretty early.

started an archer, who's going well, seems really effective and tough.

one thing I often wonder is how best to spend category points; I'm still assessing the effects of various options. I've often thought of upgrading the bonus I get in a category; but usually when I look at the actual effects, they're too small to be worthwhile, even if I have 5 points in each skill in the category. so I end up getting an inscription slot or opening up a tree with some nice passives.

I don't think it's ever worth it to waste a precious category point just to upgrade a category. Maybe if your build absolutely revolves around the skills in that category, but even then I can't think of any examples where it would actually be worth it.

[tyckspoon]

ToME:
one thing I often wonder is how best to spend category points; I'm still assessing the effects of various options. I've often thought of upgrading the bonus I get in a category; but usually when I look at the actual effects, they're too small to be worthwhile, even if I have 5 points in each skill in the category. so I end up getting an inscription slot or opening up a tree with some nice passives.

An inscription slot is always going to be a good choice, and is usually my first and third selection for a category point. Almost every class has at least one locked tree they want, whether it's in-class or learned from an escort, so that's generally cat points 2 and 4, spent after you've had enough levels to get a solid selection of skills from your starting trees (I find opening a new tree with the first point spreads you too thin, and you wind up not having built up the core skills enough to rely on yet.) Increasing the level of a tree is either the very last option, something I'll only really consider if I've hit level 50, have maybe three skill points left to assign (so not enough to make it worth opening an entire new tree unless one of its lower skills is an amazing one-point-wonder) and am already full on inscriptions.. or you're playing one of the classes that gets improved effects from a tree/skill based directly on its effective level, like Cursed and Doomed with the cursed items tree or Necromancers going Lich. In that case if you want an effective skill level of 7+ for the highest effects you probably need to put a cat point in there.

[Derjuin]

I don't think it's ever worth it to waste a precious category point just to upgrade a category. Maybe if your build absolutely revolves around the skills in that category, but even then I can't think of any examples where it would actually be worth it.

Iirc the only category worth upgrading ever is Shadows on Doomed, because the cat point gets you a 4th shadow, which helps immensely with the locked shadow trees.

[factotum]

An inscription slot is always going to be a good choice, and is usually my first and third selection for a category point.

I would argue otherwise for certain races--in particular, undead (who can't use infusions) and Krog (who can't use runes). Cutting out half of the things that you might want to inscribe makes the extra inscription slots much less useful. Plus, your first category point should always be used to unlock a tree that helps your build, assuming such a thing exists.

[Anteros]

I would argue otherwise for certain races--in particular, undead (who can't use infusions) and Krog (who can't use runes). Cutting out half of the things that you might want to inscribe makes the extra inscription slots much less useful. Plus, your first category point should always be used to unlock a tree that helps your build, assuming such a thing exists.

Everything is just situational. Lots of classes don't really benefit much from unlocking a new tree right away. Especially early when your build isn't even really online yet and you're already starved for points. I've never been a huge fan of using points on inscriptions slots either, but it's undeniably the optimal (if boring) choice in a lot of scenarios.

[factotum]

I think the point I inevitably reach in any roguelike is approaching as far as ToME is concerned. I completed the game in Normal difficulty and then moved on to Nightmare, and ever since has been a solid wall of fail where the furthest I've got is Dreadfell. I'm just getting tired of playing through the early parts of the game over and over again.

[tyckspoon]

I think the point I inevitably reach in any roguelike is approaching as far as ToME is concerned. I completed the game in Normal difficulty and then moved on to Nightmare, and ever since has been a solid wall of fail where the furthest I've got is Dreadfell. I'm just getting tired of playing through the early parts of the game over and over again.

If you're willing to put some money in it the Orc expansion has a completely new campaign to try. It's kind of a quick-start/condensed campaign, too, so you don't spend as much time grinding through crappy skeletons and rats before you get a decent chunk of XP and higher-tier gear to work with.

[factotum]

I already have it, haven't got round to finishing it yet. Anyway, the above post was made when I was feeling a bit down, I think my enthusiasm has returned somewhat this morning--we'll see how it goes.

[Cespenar]

Yeah, the orc campaign is a pretty good step up from the main camp. Even the writing is better, if anyone cares about it in a ToME campaign.

[factotum]

Well, got a level 28 Psyshot in Normal difficulty on the orc campaign now, which is easily the furthest I've ever got into that--let's hope it continues!

[zlefin]

ToME
managed to complete the cultist quest, my archers' first death. but it looks like I need to find another mod, because the person you rescue has no healing, which makes for a decidedly unfun situation. I almost failed to rescue them because, as with most chars, I have no way to heal anyone else, and she has no healing of her own; so incidental damage from enemy aoe effects accumulates over time; and there's no way to get her to stay put while you clear the level.

[Derjuin]

ToME
managed to complete the cultist quest, my archers' first death. but it looks like I need to find another mod, because the person you rescue has no healing, which makes for a decidedly unfun situation. I almost failed to rescue them because, as with most chars, I have no way to heal anyone else, and she has no healing of her own; so incidental damage from enemy aoe effects accumulates over time; and there's no way to get her to stay put while you clear the level.

She follows you, but has pretty horrible pathfinding; if you can dig out a spiral-shaped tunnel and move fast enough, she can get stuck in there while you clear out the rest of the level.

[Anteros]

Alternatively what I typically do is just not wait on her. I move well ahead of her and clear everything out long before she reaches me.

[Corlindale]

Seeing as we've spoken quite a bit about ToME in this thread, I feel I should mention that I just stumbled upon this major news update from the official ToME website, which outlines plans for the next major patch and even teases the next expansion (although it may well be far off), among all kinds of other news.

Now, no one knows how far away any of this is, but I am definitely looking forward to the rework of some of the classes that feel weak at the moment. Especially the Wyrmic, a class I've always liked thematically, but which never really felt up to par.

I'm not too worried about the news about the microtransactions, to be honest. It sounds very much like the non-evil kind that will be legitimately optional, and I think DarkGod does deserve to earn some money for his amazing work.

[tyckspoon]

So instead of doing pay2win, I've decided to add a pay2die system instead! If you think your character is too strong, that nothing can kill you as you stride effortlessly through the toughest of foes, just buy this option and get a few level 500 god-level horrors randbosses summoned on you! Death is guaranteed! You can even boast online by showing off what horrible horrible creatures are about to kill you!

This seems like a classic situation of knowing your audience Linaanill too easy? Thrashed through the supergolem and didn't even blink? Ok, throw DarkGod a couple coins and see if you can take one of the debug killers with you.

[Sian]

This seems like a classic situation of knowing your audience Linaanill too easy? Thrashed through the supergolem and didn't even blink? Ok, throw DarkGod a couple coins and see if you can take one of the debug killers with you.

Nah, knowing your audience would mean a added difficulity where you'd have to assassinate Linaanill first before being able to play the game

[zlefin]

ToME
how tough are the extra bosses in the zones when you come back from the east?
my current guy beat them quite easy; but I'm not sure if it's cuz the bosses were weak, or Archers are just crazy strong. Especially since Archers do seem super strong (as someone above said), seeing as I run into orc patrols on nightmare and still slaughter them easily, and likewise seem to be slaughtering all the zones easily.

[tyckspoon]

ToME
how tough are the extra bosses in the zones when you come back from the east?
my current guy beat them quite easy; but I'm not sure if it's cuz the bosses were weak, or Archers are just crazy strong. Especially since Archers do seem super strong (as someone above said), seeing as I run into orc patrols on nightmare and still slaughter them easily, and likewise seem to be slaughtering all the zones easily.

Mostly pretty easy, they're basically bonus boss loot rolls. The one in.. I don't remember if it's Kor'pul or Dreadfell.. can be pretty annoying, because it's a spellcasting ghost and likes to run away through the walls, but that's mostly a pain trying to run it down to kill it. I don't remember losing a life to any of them.

[Anteros]

You should be fine against the bonus bosses. They're at about the same level as the other bosses you've been fighting.

Don't activate that golem in the graveyard though. At least not until you've done everything else.

[factotum]

Yeah, I tried activating that golem with my level 50 Brawler after completing the game and he killed me almost instantly. I have no idea how people actually kill that thing.

[Maryring]

There's a super skill designed entirely around beating that golem. +1000% damage against golems. And you're gonna want it. Bad.

[Anteros]

Yeah, I tried activating that golem with my level 50 Brawler after completing the game and he killed me almost instantly. I have no idea how people actually kill that thing.

You mostly just need a way to stave off death for a few rounds and a way to stop enemy sustains. From there it's a dps race.

[factotum]

You mostly just need a way to stave off death for a few rounds and a way to stop enemy sustains. From there it's a dps race.

It's not something I'm ever going to try again, believe me--I just don't see the point. I'm having enough trouble finishing the game again on Nightmare difficulty.

[zlefin]

ToME: wow, archers are even more OP than I thought.
I just beat the bonus dragons in the whatsitcalled armory on nightmare difficulty. after the first one which I beat easily by stringing it out to fight alone, I realized I had a lot of spare power; so I fully buffed up and faced them fairly grouped. I was able to take on 4 of em at once, and I didn'dt have to retreat to heal or anything before dealing with the others, I just advanced into the room and killed em.

[factotum]

Tell that to my skeleton archer who just died at level 50 on level 5 of High Peak...

[zlefin]

hmm, maybe it's being a halfling then. or the halfling/archer with a sling combo.

PS also I beat atamathon quite handily. not sure I ever dropped below 1000 hp.

[enderlord99]

I'm in the very early (read: brainstorming) stages of developing a roguelike, and I have the capstone ability for exactly one class. The class is called the "reaper" and the capstone ability is (tentatively) called "Death's Bounty" even though that name doesn't quite fit with what the ability does.

Spoiler: Death's Bounty

Show

Deals damage to one target equal to a random* amount between half their current hitpoints, rounded down, and half their maximum hitpoints, rounded up.

*equal chance for any amount of damage within that range; I believe this distribution is called "linear."

I'd like ideas for capstone-abilities for other classes. They should be roughly equivalent in power to Death's Bounty.