The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas

[Peelee]

You've got your A/2/III thing, I've got my direct/overview/amuse thing; it all stems from there, no matter how much we might slip up on the way to our musallaneous and sundry ends.

Fair, but that line was less a rrwuest/demand to you and more a [insert X here] comment on my third point not being a joke on bananas. I could have written it better.

[Jasdoif]

Fair, but that line was less a rrwuest/demand to you and more a [insert X here] comment on my third point not being a joke on bananas.

Obviously. Responding was funnier, though

[Peelee]

Obviously. Responding was funnier, though

I do see the appeal.

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: RISE FROM THE GRAVE, OH THREAD OF OLD!

[Ruck]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: RISE FROM THE GRAVE, OH THREAD OF OLD!

"But Answers Post Day? Well... I like Answers Post Day."

[b_jonas]

New 2023-11 answers post on Patreon. It's not very long, and most of the questions aren't relevant to this thread. We should probably include question 8 that says Tarquin only has two children. We might include question 7 about a Dune reference and 12 on what Malack says about Nergal. We absolutely have to exclude question 4 due to forum rules, and should probably exclude question 10 too to be safe.

Update: We should also consider adding an entry for a recent forum answer saying that Wrecan is a Crusader, whatever that is.

[Tzardok]

Crussader is a class from Tome of Battle. Like the other martial initiator classes, the swordsage and the warblade, it uses martial maneuver, but it has a religious flavour.

[Kish]

Include all. I'm unaware of any forum rule saying "don't mention the OGL," and while I wouldn't personally find it tragic if #4 and 10 weren't included, I can see why people asked them and why people may still wonder about them if they don't see the answers.

Also include "Rich had no idea anyone thought Tarquin was a swordsage."

[Provengreil]

Crussader is a class from Tome of Battle. Like the other martial initiator classes, the swordsage and the warblade, it uses martial maneuver, but it has a religious flavour.

Also, I feel like that was specified in the comic, but I can't find it somehow.

[Kish]

Greg called him "crusader." What was ambiguous until Rich posted that, was whether he meant "heavy-armored guy from the Tome of Battle" or "guy who crusades and will be biting off more than he can chew if he tries to crusade at me."

[Peelee]

Greg called him "crusader." What was ambiguous until Rich posted that, was whether he meant "heavy-armored guy from the Tome of Battle" or "guy who crusades and will be biting off more than he can chew if he tries to crusade at me."

Or someone who goes on some damned-fool idealistic crusade.

[Ruck]

Greg called him "crusader." What was ambiguous until Rich posted that, was whether he meant "heavy-armored guy from the Tome of Battle" or "guy who crusades and will be biting off more than he can chew if he tries to crusade at me."

Or someone who goes on some damned-fool idealistic crusade.

I believe that was the implication of the second description, that vampire!Durkon would help him find out just how foolish if he continued.

Anyway, I think in this case we can reasonably say "it can be two things!"

[Sir_Norbert]

What is the OGL?

Was "swordsage" a popular theory or just one person's idea?

[Peelee]

I believe that was the implication of the second description, that vampire!Durkon would help him find out just how foolish if he continued.

Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

[Gwynfrid]

What is the OGL?

Was "swordsage" a popular theory or just one person's idea?

This page explains the OGL and the controversy that raged in the D&D community in January of this year.

For the "swordsage" theory, as I don't follow the relevant threads, I don't have the faintest idea.

About the answers in today's post:

#1 should not be included. It's redundant with this quote, and even more so, with answer 2B in the Geekademia interview.

#11 should also be left out. It's not about the comic. Also, it's going to be obsolete soon enough.

I think all the others should be included, as well as the one about Wrecan being a Crusader.

[Jasdoif]

I guess I was wondering when the new procedure would get its first run....

---

#11 should also be left out. It's not about the comic. Also, it's going to be obsolete soon enough.

It also runs afoul of Rule B3, being exclusively about merchandise availability, and on that basis I will not be considering it for inclusion.

Similarly, #13 cannot be done justice in this format would also run afoul of Rule B3.

---

Now let's see, in theory this can handle non-numeric labels so let's try the post as "P1" to distinguish the forum post from the Patreon answers post....

#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Posters
1	How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5? Great.	1	1	Vote-able	In Favor: Kish Against: Gwynfrid
2	What makes a good magic system? Lack of bad drama.	2	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against:
3	Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream? No.	2	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against:
4	Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic? No.	2	1	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against: b_jonas
5	Why is your Patreon avatar Elan? Representative accuracy.	2	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against:
6	How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon? Matching names to reasons.	2	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against:
7	Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie? No.	2	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against:
8	Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale? He saw extremes of personality.	3	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, b_jonas Against:
9	Do you read the forums anymore? No.	2	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against:
10	Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback? Not anymore.	2	1	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against: b_jonas
12	Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil? Only sometimes.	2	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish Against:
P1	Wrecan is technically a Crusader. ...yes.	3	0	Include	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Ruck Against:

[Tzardok]

I'm in favour pf including all that are in the table.

[Kish]

Was "swordsage" a popular theory or just one person's idea?

More than one person was advocating it, but where it came from I never knew. It showed up long after his last appearance in the comic.

But since more than one person was advocating it, I do urge actually including that Rich said "no" to it, not just that Wrecan is a Crusader.

[hroþila]

I think the main takeaway from #9 is not "I don't read the forums anymore" (which is not new information), but rather "uh yeah maybe take my forum posts with a grain of salt"

[Metastachydium]

Okay. This one's a lot less informative than I hoped, but hey. Not gonna complain about New Word of the Giant! Anyway,

3; 4; 5: I find these supremely irrelevant; voting AGAINST including them.

6; 8; 9 especially if hroþila's suggested modification of the takeaway is considered); 10; 12; P1: should take their rightful place in the index; voting IN FAVOUR of including them.

I'm aggressively MEH on 1; 2; and 7; I'll officially ABSTAIN on those fronts.

[b_jonas]

I vote include 7 (Dune), 8 (Tarquin's children), P1 (Wrecan is a Crusader).
I vote exclude 4, 9, 10, 11, 13. (The M:tG card Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug is a good enough representation of Laser Snail for me.)

[Tubercular Ox]

More than one person was advocating it, but where it came from I never knew. It showed up long after his last appearance in the comic.

But since more than one person was advocating it, I do urge actually including that Rich said "no" to it, not just that Wrecan is a Crusader.

He didn't actually say no.

So, does this nix "Tarquin is a Swordsage"? Cuz that Ballista Throw and the constricting stance were nova hot.

OMG, it nixes the Blue Carbuncle, too. Unless that's an ordinary Carbuncle.

I honestly enjoy having had no awareness of either of these two theories.

EDIT: Wrecan is technically a Crusader so there's still some flexibility in each category anyway.

I believe he didn't say no because I was wrong about the Blue Carbuncle and he didn't correct me. I told him it was nixed, he did not say it wasn't nixed, and then I found out the Carbuncle in the picture was actually a Blue Carbuncle.

So I'd say he's in full poker face here and not to be taken at face value. I won't go into semantics in this thread, I'm only asking that the quote not be summarized as, "No."

[Sir_Norbert]

Voting exclude #7 (too trivial), include all the rest.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Vote against all except the Crusader & swordsage ones. The latter of which I add my voice to Kish's to actually include.

As truly minor note: could you change the crusader id to F1? P being both initial of "post" and "patreon" is not helping.

GW

[Aidan]

I vote to exclude 3,4, and 7

I vote to include all others.

[Jasdoif]

I think the main takeaway from #9 is not "I don't read the forums anymore" (which is not new information), but rather "uh yeah maybe take my forum posts with a grain of salt"

That's not new information either, though.

This is why I'm sorta starting to hate the out-of-context quoting; because I tend to exaggerate when speaking extemporaneously and describe things out of proportion to what I really intended when I wrote the scenes. I should learn to just stop talking about it, because everytime I say something I end up changing everyone's view of the events in the story, and I would be better served letting the story stand on its own and ignoring the critics.

And, given the borderline histrionics that occurred when the Giant asked us not to index posts outside the OotS subforum unless they had something to do with OotS (which was only three months before the quoted section above), I'm a bit leery of trying to focus on the subject.

Still, what's everyone else think?

I won't go into semantics in this thread, I'm only asking that the quote not be summarized as, "No."

I have a distaste for extrapolation when it comes to the entry descriptions, if that's what you're asking.

As truly minor note: could you change the crusader id to F1? P being both initial of "post" and "patreon" is not helping.

Done.

---

So that brings us to....

#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Posters
1	How do you feel about OOTS remaining (D&D) 3.5? Great.	4	2	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid
2	What makes a good magic system? Lack of bad drama.	5	1	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Grey_Wolf_c
3	Would you ever appear on a tabletop gaming stream? No.	4	3	Vote-able	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Metastachydium
4	Is the Open Gaming License an issue for the comic? No.	4	4	Vote-able	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Metastachydium, b_jonas
5	Why is your Patreon avatar Elan? Representative accuracy.	5	2	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Grey_Wolf_c, Metastachydium
6	How did you pick which Norse Gods made it into the Northern Pantheon? Matching names to reasons.	6	1	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Grey_Wolf_c
7	Did you know Christopher Walken was going to appear in a Dune movie? No.	4	3	Vote-able	In Favor: Gwynfrid, Kish, Tzardok, b_jonas Against: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Sir_Norbert
8	Why was Tarquin obsessed with Elan and Nale? He saw extremes of personality.	7	1	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas Against: Grey_Wolf_c
9	Do you read the forums anymore? No.	6	2	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Grey_Wolf_c, b_jonas
10	Do you speed the plot up after reader feedback? Not anymore.	6	2	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Grey_Wolf_c, b_jonas
12	Does Neutrality fit death gods better than Evil? Only sometimes.	6	1	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok Against: Grey_Wolf_c
F1	Wrecan is technically a Crusader. ...yes.	9	0	Include	In Favor: Aidan, Grey_Wolf_c, Gwynfrid, Kish, Metastachydium, Ruck, Sir_Norbert, Tzardok, b_jonas Against:

Spoiler: Breakdown by Poster

Show

Poster	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	12	F1
Kish
Ruck
Gwynfrid
Tzardok
Metastachydium
b_jonas
Sir_Norbert
Grey_Wolf_c
Aidan

[Joerg]

I'm in favor of including #7, though I would prefer a wording like "what is the actual reference in that strip".

[137beth]

I'm in favor of including all of them.

[Kish]

I believe he didn't say no because I was wrong about the Blue Carbuncle and he didn't correct me. I told him it was nixed, he did not say it wasn't nixed, and then I found out the Carbuncle in the picture was actually a Blue Carbuncle.

I'm not seeing where you found that out, Ox.

That said, I would prefer it be phrased as "Rich never knew that anyone thought Tarquin was a swordsage or the carbuncle from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished was a Blue Carbuncle," which covers exactly what he said while still allowing people to treat "swordsage" as a type of "fighter" if they so choose (which, to be clear, I never would. Average BAB, only proficient in light armor, proprietary access to the Shadow Hand discipline: if Tarquin was on the Rogue poster then I'd be saying "huh, maybe there's actually something to the swordsage idea").

That said, this seems to be being ignored anyway and I am confused. Jasdoif?

[Jasdoif]

That said, this seems to be being ignored anyway and I am confused. Jasdoif?

As (I think I) mentioned, I don't like to extrapolate for the entries (as opposed to the kind of interpolation necessary for summarizing), in much the same vein as my refusal to pass judgement on something the Giant's said; my view is that the Index should be providing neutral information for readers to make their own subjective interpretations from.

To that end....

So, does this nix "Tarquin is a Swordsage"? Cuz that Ballista Throw and the constricting stance were nova hot.

OMG, it nixes the Blue Carbuncle, too. Unless that's an ordinary Carbuncle.

I honestly enjoy having had no awareness of either of these two theories.

EDIT: Wrecan is technically a Crusader so there's still some flexibility in each category anyway.

The Giant enjoying his ignorance of the "Tarquin is a Swordsage" theory is a personal preference that does not touch on the comic directly; for an entry this has no value one way or the other. Same with...whatever sequence of words is encompassing the Blue Carbuncle. Conversely, Wrecan technically being a Crusader does touch directly on a character in the comic and specific wording used in the comic; in the (highly likely) case the post gets an entry, that will be all it mentions.