OOTS #875 - The Discussion Thread

[Lorick]

Average life expectancy at birth, maybe 40 at best.

Actually, it was 28. This is, however, before of how easily babies get sick and die. Factoring in 0.5 throws off averages greatly.
This does mean, however, that they could sacrifice sickly babies and keep their population growth unchanged.

[Smolder]

(as, somewhat, is Nale).

Yeah, I suddenly want a backer-story PDF of Nale (and Sabine?) fighting and defeating Malack's previous vamplings.

I bet it would get funded on Kickstarter.

[hamishspence]

What's the lifespan of lizard-folk (assuming Malack was that, and not a Yuan-ti)?

Haley concludes "Albino lizardfolk"- when she first sees him. I'm guessing they've seen enough lizardfolk on the Western continent to know one when they see one.

The only 3rd ed source I've seen giving them ages is Races of Faerun, and that says "same life expectancy and age categories as humans".

[attriel]

If Malack is forced into gaseous form and retreats to his coffin, Durkon has time to regroup.

(And if Durkon happens to have Wind Wall prepared and can reduce Malack to 0 hit points or below, forcing him into gaseous form, then he can cast a circular Wind Wall to pin Malack in place, and Malack will be destroyed.)
You had to know someone would still argue Malack is neutral, though.

Well, there was all the wind in the maze canyons that prevented flying for the most part ... wonder if it would hold malack in, or since they flew in teh first time he can bypass it/overpower it?

"I did have to promise him a bigger statue" !!!

[Shivore]

To those who say we learned nothing new, that's not true. Just because what we saw before led you to certain guesses, and those guesses have now been proven right, doesn't mean we didn't learn anything.

There's a big difference between drinking the blood of already condemned victims as a matter of practicality (a neutral act) and ruling a continent and continuing and even ramping up sacrifices just to bring more deaths to honor your death god. They are NOT the same thing, but the first is all we knew for sure until today's strip. We did learn something today that we did not know before.

[zingbat]

People were annoyed that Durkon didn't try offering a better compromise, like...well, the one he mentioned in this comic.

You know what would be a good compromise? Driving a stake through the blood-drinking mass-murdering vampire's heart. Friendly chats and lending books doesn't exactly make up for a plan for massive death camps that has been centuries in the making.

[Zmeoaice]

Why are you lunatics even discussing the sustainability of 1000 sacrifices a day?

Why would ruling an empire take precedence over committing genocide/extinction as tribute to the god of death?

Also what happens to the souls that get sacrificed? Does Nergal become stronger? Do they become his servants, or will the have free will in his domain?

[subanark]

{scrubbed} Nice guy once you get to know him provided you can look past the desire to kill a bunch of people and provided that you aren't in that group of people he wants to kill (or know people who are).

[sam79]

Oh, Giant, I’m loving this tale!
It shows, again, brains will prevail.
Though Malack may lurk on,
You’ve still shown that Durkon
Is awesome (as, somewhat, is Nale).

Ok, this wins.

See, this is what happens when an evil character has a high charisma and ranks in diplomacy. A lot of people miss the fact that evil folks can be polite, nice, and have friends and loved ones. It's just that, well, their plans and actions are not good things. At all.

And this comes second.

[Onyavar]

Now I'm thrilled - is Malack really a yuan-ti? Or is he a runt the size of a kobold and levitating to appear taller than he is (and when "sitting", he's actually just standing on his feet?
When falling now, he still shows no legs. Also, how comes that his robes don't swing down?


At least the question of his alignment is settled once and for all.
Now I'm less expecting a vamp Durkon, though I can't point my finger on why...

[Smolder]

Also what happens to the souls that get sacrificed? Does Nergal become stronger? Do they become his servants, or will the have free will in his domain?

I'm assuming from Nergal's diet of souls that the sacrificed victims shouldn't expect a comfy afterlife.

[Dr. Gamera]

In panel six, is Malack vamped out, and if so, is he supposed to be, or is it an art error?

[SavageWombat]

In panel six, is Malack vamped out, and if so, is he supposed to be, or is it an art error?

Maybe pink doesn't show up at that range. He's not talking in black either.

[Deepbluediver]

To those who say we learned nothing new, that's not true. Just because what we saw before led you to certain guesses, and those guesses have now been proven right, doesn't mean we didn't learn anything.

There's a big difference between drinking the blood of already condemned victims as a matter of practicality (a neutral act) and ruling a continent and continuing and even ramping up sacrifices just to bring more deaths to honor your death god. They are NOT the same thing, but the first is all we knew for sure until today's strip. We did learn something today that we did not know before.

Except that for most of us, aiding in the creation and expansion of an evil-empire proved that Malak was not in the neutral camp a long time ago.

When falling now, he still shows no legs. Also, how comes that his robes don't swing down?

They're pinned to his tail :P

[ThePhantasm]

Yeah, Malack is so obviously evil now. No way that guy is neutral.

[Dr. Gamera]

Now I'm less expecting a vamp Durkon, though I can't point my finger on why...

I know what you mean, though I share the same difficulty in articulating my justification.

[Bird]

Giant, you're the goddamn man cranking out these updates. I've had a pretty good week, yet your comic was still the highlight of it for me.

Some nice character moments in this strip. I learn things about storytelling all the time reading this comic.

[The_Tentacle]

I liked this comic. Durkon outsmarted Malack, and proved Malack irrefutably Evil in the process*.

However, I doubt that the Giant will just have a series (or even another comic) of Durkon beating the hell out of Malack (or vice versa). Something is about to pop in here, another character or a new development or something.

*Yet you still know that someone will manage to argue the case for neutrality.

[Hogwarts9876]

Durkon, how do you get more awesome by the comic?!?!
Also, it's interesting to see that Durkon as well as Elan thinks, 'What would Roy do?' (not W.W.T.D)

[Dr. Gamera]

He's not talking in black either.

Good point.

[Snails]

To be honest, I'm fairly glad Rich is sticking with the undead-always-evil thing, at least so far. Start of Darkness is quite explicit about Xykon becoming much more seriously evil when he becomes a lich -- Redcloak notes that the only thing he seems to enjoy anymore is "watching things die". I think taking pleasure in death is probably a general quality of free-willed undead in the strip.

Applying Bardic Knowledge, it was never plausible Malack would turn out to be non-evil.

If the Giant wanted to explore the morality of non-evil undead, he would have staged things drastically differently. Regardless of what Goodish things might come out of Malack's mouth, association with Tarquin would have hopelessly undermined any such point.

Look what the Giant did with Paladins. He showed five interesting and different viewpoints on the Paladin (Miko, Hinjo, O-Chul, Soon, plus the non-Paladin Shojo). With different shades of Paladin to look at, making sophisticated points is easier and more effective.

The Giant never laid such groundwork for undead. We have Xykon and a bunch of nameless undead goons who all play to stereotype. Then when have Malack. The Giant was never never ever ever going to use Malack to make some subtle philosophical point about undeath.

That said, I simply love how the Giant wrote Malack. He very elegantly maintained a degree of ambiguity for a very long time.

[The Giant]

OK, guys? Obviously there are certain historical parallels that CAN be drawn with this comic, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD be drawn, at least not on this message board. There are still our rules against real-world historical/political figures, especially when discussing alignment.

There will likely be a lot of scrubbing, and maybe some warnings, but from this point on: No more historical references. Thank you.

[Zmeoaice]

I'm assuming from Nergal's diet of souls that the sacrificed victims shouldn't expect a comfy afterlife.

He is married to the Goddess of the underworld, and she would probably want them, so I'm guessing they aren't 'eaten'.

[attriel]

Durkon, how do you get more awesome by the comic?!?!
Also, it's interesting to see that Durkon as well as Elan thinks, 'What would Roy do?' (not W.W.T.D)

Durkon has established before that WWTD (drinking and whoring) is perhaps not as helpful as one might hope in most istuations :o

[HandofShadows]

Malack overlooked that Durkon has more weapons than just his spells.

[Feddlefew]

I was hoping that if/when Malack was confirmed to be evil it would be more.... Memorable? Instead of just going "oh yeah I'm going to do X Y and Z in a few decades and it'll be unspeakably horrific".

Maybe the other evil character's habits of rocket-jumping the moral event horizon has kind of overshadowed it. It doesn't really fit with Malack's personality, I guess.

[Shred-Bot]

I thought that last panel lent a bit of credibility to the legless theory. We only see his tail. How was he hanging from the ceiling? If he'd been gripping with feet, we should see them in that last shot.

Credibility, sure... but nothing conclusive either way. With the robe's persistent coverage I doubt we'll get anything firm unless Durkon gives us a "Good gods, Malack, where're yer legs?!?"

[Inst]

One interesting paradox I see is that Malack is religiously a nihilist. He feels that everything would be better if everything was returned to nothingness and in doing that lies his ultimate good.

Yet, in contradiction to that, why does he actually care about Durkon? Why does he actually care for knowledge and debate when his religion is what calls for the destruction of both things and objectives?

In Malack's case, wouldn't killing Durkon be a good in itself as it would free Durkon from the mortal coil? Why does he want to avoid fighting Durkon to begin with?

I think if you consider that, it becomes interesting how Malack reconciles different parts of his character. Tarquin is actively sophistic in rationalization; he has to admit that on some level he's involved in evil actions, so he denies the existence of good and evil; as in a speech to Elan during the last arc. Is Malack then someone who strictly follows orders; as in, he was given an unfortunate order to maximize the amount of death over time and will rationalize that as necessary? If so, then for Malack, what is his true belief system below his system of justification?

[SaintRidley]

Except that for most of us, aiding in the creation and expansion of an evil-empire proved that Malak was not in the neutral camp a long time ago.

And even if it didn't, using that evil empire as a fast-food restaurant by way of kangaroo courts certainly did.

Really, what we had the other day was "Look at how he murders that dog." Today's, for those who didn't get the hint, was "And now he's force-feeding that dog to the whole neighborhood and making them all choke to death."

[Koo Rehtorb]

I still say he's Lawful Netural, guys!!