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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
    I'm fine with the idea that you are still an "acolyte" the first few levels so you don't choose subclass yet, however in that case the subclass shouldn't be based on the source of your magic powers, ie which Deity/Domain you serve it should be the how you serve them.

    And it's not like Cleric is particularly special in this regards, Warlocks and Sorcerers will have the same issue. Now we can wait and see how they do it for those classes but it just seems like it would be much cleaner if they changed the subclass from the source of your power to a more generic how that power is used type of subclass. So as an example for Warlocks rather then have the subclasses be Fiend/Fey/Goo the subclasses should be Blade/Chain/Tome and the Patron is instead just some level 1 feature not associated to the subclass.
    Or handle it like the Paladin or Wizard or Artificer. For the first level or two you're absolutely [what you are going to pick], you just haven't figured out your particular specialty or been entrusted with the particular powers just yet.

    I'm fine with the frontloading being spread out a bit.
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    My initial thoughts upon reading this document is.. that it is both good and original.
    Except to borrow an overused cliche, the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good.

    Its absolutely aggravating that they are repeating the same mistakes that were made years ago and that were actually acknowledged as such and designed around, only to be repeated in these documents (see the UA1 dragonborn).

    Here I mean things like the lvl 9 feature for cleric. I thought by now it was acknowledged that giving a feature that was available many levels earlier (minus the original ‘optimal’ choice) was known to be bad design.

    Of course they didn’t seize the opportunity to actually put in new interesting things for the cleric at later levels. Divine intervention was a not great idea of 5e (mostly b/c its DM dependant, and was essentially the entirety of the t3/t4 experience for a cleric sinking in two features of opportunity cost). Of course that wasn't really changed.

    Of course they still don’t understand damage and action/concentration opportunity cost. So eg the damage side of divine spark is a feature that makes absolutely zero sense at various points (essentially a newbie trap). Ditto with the new spiritual weapon.

    Also, the Life cleric still uses ‘level’ instead of ‘proficiency’, so I guess we retain both mechanics going forward.. That fine I suppose, I just had assumed they were getting away from that.

    Anyway, my confidence that they are going to get this right is steadily deteriorating. There are just too many basic mistakes and a glaring lack of new interesting content.
    Last edited by Hael; 2022-12-01 at 08:01 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    Its absolutely aggravating that they are repeating the same mistakes that were made years ago and that were actually acknowledged as such and designed around, only to be repeated in these documents (see the UA1 dragonborn).

    Here I mean things like the lvl 9 feature for cleric. I thought by now it was acknowledged that giving a feature that was available many levels earlier (minus the original ‘optimal’ choice) was known to be bad design.
    Sounds like new hires have replaced the old and they haven't learned those lessons or read the handover documentation.
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Or handle it like the Paladin or Wizard or Artificer. For the first level or two you're absolutely [what you are going to pick], you just haven't figured out your particular specialty or been entrusted with the particular powers just yet.

    I'm fine with the frontloading being spread out a bit.
    That pretending is what should be avoided, we do it for Paladins and I very much dislike it. Wizards and Artificer on the other hand don't have that issue since the source of their magic doesn't come from the subclass instead the subclass is what they are specializing in.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Or handle it like the Paladin or Wizard or Artificer. For the first level or two you're absolutely [what you are going to pick], you just haven't figured out your particular specialty or been entrusted with the particular powers just yet.

    I'm fine with the frontloading being spread out a bit.
    See you can do that. But I've been mildly annoyed for years now on how the Paladin is set up. Not like it's a make or break thing for me. But if I had a grand poobah powers for a day I might make Paladin's oath come in on 1st level. The whole point of the class is their dedication to their Oath is what grants them supernatural powers. Why did they get supernatural powers if the mechanics of the class don't even enforce them taking an oath yet? It'd be something if levels 1 and 2 the Paladin had no magical abilities. But they blatantly do.

    Which is what's probably going to happen with Cleric and Sorcerer and Warlock. Will I condemn the game as utterly unplayable with the change for everyone to subclasses at 3? No. Will it be a minor annoyance I have with the system the entire time I play it? Yes. Probably.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    So, personal thoughts after a first pass on this:

    Cleric - Seems fine by me. I like the new Holy Order feature. Doesn't honestly feel like a heck of a lot changed.

    Aardling - Leaning more into the animal traits is a good call, makes them feel less like they're trying to replace Aasimar. Nonetheless, my feeling that either Aasimar or a proper animal-person race like Tabaxi or Shifter (or both, if they feel both the celestial-person and animal-person niches need filling) would be better as a PHB choice remains unchanged.

    Dragonborn - Better, though I still prefer the Fizban's versions. "Spectral wings" doesn't really feel right to me - if you want to give them wings, give them actual physical wings, magical ones seem out of place. But then they can't justify their flight being limited-use, so they won't do that. In which case, maybe wings just isn't a good idea for the race, eh?

    Goliath - Very surprised to see these here. I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, mechanics look good, and I'm cool with them being a PHB race. On the other hand, they've never been descendants of the normal Giant types before, but cousins, and I don't know that I like that lore change to justify the mechanics, personally.

    Epic Boon of Truesight - See this WotC? This is what an Epic Boon should be. It's actually Epic. By comparison, the other Epic Boons in this document are pretty underwhelming. Maybe take a look at that.

    Banishment is now "repeat the save each turn," in addition to requiring concentration? Makes it a hell of a lot weaker. Not a fan.

    The "get inspiration on a natural 1" thing is still around. That's a pity.

    Resistance is now way better - but that 10 foot range might make it okay, actually. Keeping your party members that close to you at all times is not easy during a lot of fights, just ask any Paladin.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2022-12-01 at 08:39 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Telesphoros View Post
    Yeah, and a Chain Shirt and Scale Mail both cost 50 gp so it's a pretty easy change to make.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    Goliaths, you were cool and interesting but no more. Now your just giantkin/Quasi half-giants.
    You can play them exactly like they were originally though, just pick the stone option and ignore the rest. More thematic options are good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atranen View Post
    The druid circles are voluntary associations one can choose to be a part of or not. One could not associate with any druid circles and still be a druid. One can't (ok you can, but not following the flavor text typically used and the way clerics are typically thought of) neglect to worship a deity and be a cleric. In every edition of d&d, clerics worship deities, front and center. It's core to the class. You could easily excise the circles and still have a druid. It's not core to the class.

    So delaying any domain based abilities makes it feel like you're playing an incomplete cleric, in a way that delaying circle based abilities doesn't do for druids.
    I still disagree. For starters, druids can be just as god-dependent as clerics, as stated in their description on PHB 64 (and enforced in settings like FR), and that doesn't stop them from being subclassless at level 1. Second, domains are also a voluntary association: "Choose one domain related to your deity." There is no thematic necessity for that decision to need to take place at 1st level; changing clerics so that you have to get to know your god a little bit before deciding which of their spheres of influence you want to most closely associate with is not just reasonable, I can see it as a thematic improvement over the original.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    I don't mind the Cleric. I would give them a lvl1 ribbon, and since this is 1dnd, I'd make it a spell. Or two. That don't really level all that well, but work pretty well on most of the campaign, so it's just a thing you can do. You follow your god, but how are you special in their eyes? About this special:

    -------
    Divine Service: At lvl1, you choose in which way you intend to serve your god. You have one of the following options, and always have these spells prepared (on top of your usual amount).

    Healing: you always have the Healing Word, and Sanctuary spells prepared.

    Martial: you always have the Heroism, and Shield of Faith spells prepared.

    Knowledge: You always have the Detect Good and Evil, and Detect Magic spells prepared.
    --------

    This allows a heap of builds, isn't overly powerful (it's not adding slots, just preps), and allows flavouring to your God's service, straight from level 1. Be a knowledge'y protector of Life, or a martial thaumaturge (of Life so far), or whatever. Basically subs in for lvl1 domain spells, but it's not a huge choice, and adds flavour and variation to your domain and holy order.

    I reckon it's a pretty good fix. It's not like they're powerful, but they are very cool. You could just prepare them anyway, but they're good enough that they'll still be used in a lvl1-10 campaign when needed (and any extra utility is nice. Knowledge even contains a ritual, for good measure).

    Be a witch hunter, or follow the god of magic, or travel the world. Them not being tied to domain is nice, plenty of them being concentration is not, but they're there. So you can go all-in on being the servant of the war'iest war god that ever warred, or have a smattering of you in there (in how you serve such a god and your place in the religion and society surrounding it). Maybe they like to know stuff or not die too? Makes wars way easier.

    Would work ok, and since it's like 2 lvl1 spell preps, that aren't tied to domain, it's pretty light on power but great on flavour. It's more of a "what do you want to do with this character?", rather than a "you'd better know everything you'll be doing, from lvl1!".

    It's a bit of a "build a bear" Cleric, but I think it fits pretty well on the current magic system and theming. You are still very slot-limited on actually doing these things well, and they are only lvl1 spells. But they are pretty powerful and character defining on "you", not "your god/ holy order", which is good to have from the get-go.


    ((You could probably even expand this list a bit.

    Dis/~/Order: Compelled Duel and Command.
    Hidden: Disguise Self and Fog Cloud.
    Temporal: Expeditious Retreat and Longstrider.
    Natural: Speak with Animals and Hunter's Mark.
    Magical: Guiding Bolt and Faerie Fire.
    Illusion: Silent Image and Unseen Servant.

    Etc etc...

    Basically it's the gift that keeps giving for a lvl1 flavourful, on "totally not domain spells, just how my god noticed me, or how I will serve that god".
    So yeah, sambojin: making clerics OP again, from the UA onwards. It just makes 1dnd Clerics "not crap", and even with the three original suggestions, lets there be plenty of flavour to the builds and characters created. Though making it a 1-of-3(or 9 now?) choice would really nail it well. If you've got to wait until lvl3 to be a "not-acolyte", I want some customisation on the way there, to show what sort of acolyte I was. There's nothing forcing you to use your spell slots on those spells, but it's nice that you can, with the 9-odd variations given))
    Last edited by sambojin; 2022-12-02 at 12:44 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Dragonborn - Better, though I still prefer the Fizban's versions. "Spectral wings" doesn't really feel right to me - if you want to give them wings, give them actual physical wings, magical ones seem out of place. But then they can't justify their flight being limited-use, so they won't do that. In which case, maybe wings just isn't a good idea for the race, eh?
    I too would prefer physical/scaly wings (that are generally furled), and they could justify their presence by letting them grant a slow-fall effect in addition to the very limited flight later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    By comparison, the other Epic Boons in this document are pretty underwhelming. Maybe take a look at that.
    ...
    The "get inspiration on a natural 1" thing is still around. That's a pity.
    As a reminder - the feedback from Expert Classes is not reflected in this UA, so even if everyone absolutely hated all the previous Epic Boons and the Inspiration-on-a-1 rule, we won't be able to tell that by looking at this one. Only Character Origins feedback is reflected here, hence the new Ardling and Dragonborn.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2022-12-01 at 09:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    I just realized that they made spiritual weapon concentration . Understandable from a balance perspective I suppose, even if i’m not a fan, but what does cleric even spend their BA on while concentrating on something else? That was kind of a important part of their DPR calculations and not being able to pair it with bless and SG is a pretty big nerf.
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Jervis View Post
    I just realized that they made spiritual weapon concentration . Understandable from a balance perspective I suppose, even if i’m not a fan, but what does cleric even spend their BA on while concentrating on something else? That was kind of a important part of their DPR calculations and not being able to pair it with bless and SG is a pretty big nerf.
    The optimal way to play nowdays isn't even to cast spiritual weapon (its viewed as a waste of a slot once you go much past lvl 5). You just get the telekinetic feat and push/pull people into your spirit guardians. Similar damage for your bonus action, and you save a slot at the cost of a half feat.

    So I guess I disagree that it needed to be nerfed in the first place.

    Lets see what they do to spirit guardians...

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    "The default DC for a check is 15, and it is rarely worth calling for an Ability Check if the DC is as low as 5, unless the potential failure is narratively interesting."

    I see they're doubling down on not understanding their own system math. If they want to use this, they need to add a suggestion to only call for checks when the character can roll with their highest bonuses (or better yet highest bonus rolls for the entire party), or just acknowledge that adventurers are klutzes who can't succeed on most things requiring checks unless they have high ability scores combined with proficiency until high levels. It's not even a coin flip for 3 out of 6 ability scores for most characters.

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Yeah try 12 or 13 as a default
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    You can play them exactly like they were originally though, just pick the stone option and ignore the rest. More thematic options are good.
    There's more "thematic options" and then there's tacking giantkin onto a race that has never had anything to do with Giants except live in the same mountains and have occasional conflict with giants. This is the time to introduce (as eventual spaltbook race looking at you ardlings) a new race of giant themed people to go with the eventual giant book (there'd not be a Druid subclass and whatever else dropping heavy giant magic hints if there wasnt one coming)
    Last edited by Leon; 2022-12-01 at 11:05 PM.
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Can't wait until they release Firbolgs again....

    (And yep. We're all original Xcom soldiers here in 1dnd. Actually, the reverse. We can shoot/ punch, averagely or better, but are hopeless at everything else otherwise, and we don't get rocket launchers from lvl1. Lol)
    Last edited by sambojin; 2022-12-01 at 11:05 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Yeah try 12 or 13 as a default
    I'd like 11 Medium, that gives Ability Score 10 without proficiency a 50/50 chance. And 6 for Easy, 75% chance.

    My assumption here is that checks will be regularly called for things that have interesting/important failure states, but any adventurer should have a base chance of a coin flip for them, so we're not setting a baseline of check = failure.

    It doesn't really matter if the default to DC is called Medium or not, but it should be 10 or 11, unless they make clear to DMs they should usually only be calling for interesting/important failure states that adventurers are expected to fail more often than not unless they are specialists.

    (Note that this very much isn't the default for attacks, which are expected to come in at ~60%, or failing to save against PC cast spells at ~50%.)

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    There's more "thematic options" and then there's stuffing giantkin onto a race that has never had anything to do with Giants except live in the same mountains and have occasional conflict with giants.
    Oddly enough, when I was deciding the origin of a bunch of my races about 6 years ago (so well before this came out), I decided that goliaths (which I call jazuu) and dwarves were actually both intimately related to the giant-kin. Specifically, jazuu are what giants come from. See, true giants in my setting aren't actually a species (or set of them). They're runic rewritings of jazuu. A process that rebuilds body and soul; the stronger and more skilled the person, the further they can go (and thus the higher the form of giant). Giants are sterile--in exchange for extreme long life, they give up reproduction. Non-true-giants (ogres, trolls, etc) are what happens if you fail too early in the process (depending on exactly where you fail). And, due to a quirk of ironic fate, they are fertile. So giant-kin outnumber giants tremendously. Most jazuu communities also include multiple giants, who may act as rulers, workers, warriors, or craftsman. And this is why jazuu cultures are so often competitive--they consider the giant transformation to be the highest status you can have, but only the strongest few are allowed to attempt it. All of this is an attempt to mimic their long-ago ancestors the titans, who were shapeshifting runic masters of creation and ordering.

    Dwarves are the descendants of titans who were stripped of most of their power (and stature) by their compatriots as part of an ancient attempt to create a weapon against the ancestors of the modern dragons in the last of their wars. As such, they have an affinity for runes and for crafting. What happens if you try to put a dwarf through the giantification process? Dunno. No one's tried it and reported about it. Probably something bad, but possibly not fatal. There was a dwarven attempt at something similar, but more...technological. It failed, and then a goblin bard tried it and became, well...even weirder than he already was.
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    so i haven't read all of it. cleric is already my favorite class, with life cleric actually my favorite subclass, so i was excited to see what they may have come up with and im...incredibly disappointed.

    a level 20 life cleric will function...basically identically to what 5e with the exception of the changes to base cleric channel divinity, and the holy orders. but none of the actual subclass features changed, they just got pushed back (except for supreme healing which got pushed up). overall i think its just...a straight nerf to what was already one of the weaker cleric subclasses.

    i DO however like that they're adding the ability to deal damage back into the base clerics channel divinity. that is definitely something i missed from PF.

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Atranen View Post
    The player will always have some choice in how to flavor their abilities and which ones to use. But the system isn't doing anything to support you here. They made level 3 the new level 1 and decided actual levels 1 & 2 are only useful as tutorials.
    To be fair, a lot of games I've seen treat it that way already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atranen View Post
    Druids are typically flavored less hierarchically. If you're a 1st level druid unassociated with a circle, you're still a druid. If you're a 1st level cleric an have a minor position in a hierarchy, you're a trainee, not a cleric.
    Ironically, in 1e, Druids were EXTREMELY hierarchical, being one of the classes (like the monk and assassin) that had to fight other druids to level up to the highest levels. There were limited numbers of druids who could possibly be of certain levels, with the last couple/few levels having only one druid at each of those levels. They had to challenge and defeat in a duel the druid of a level above them to gain the next level, and if they won, the druid they beat was either dead, or reduced by one level. If they lost, they are reset to the bottom of their current levle and have to gain exp to level up again before challenging them again.

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    The optimal way to play nowdays isn't even to cast spiritual weapon (its viewed as a waste of a slot once you go much past lvl 5). You just get the telekinetic feat and push/pull people into your spirit guardians. Similar damage for your bonus action, and you save a slot at the cost of a half feat.

    So I guess I disagree that it needed to be nerfed in the first place.

    Lets see what they do to spirit guardians...
    I’m skeptical as to if Telekinetic will survive, if it does it probably won’t be core. It fits the design of level 4 feats well so allowing it won’t break anything but if you don’t want to use legacy content it’ll be a problem. Speaking from experience a system jumping to .5 and still using stuff from half a system ago causes many problems.

    Besides that it makes concentration spells that aren’t spirit guardians (assuming they don’t nerf it) even worse.
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    =kazaryu;25647654
    Snip
    a level 20 life cleric will function...basically identically to what 5e with the exception of the changes to base cleric channel divinity, and the holy orders. but none of the actual subclass features changed, they just got pushed back (except for supreme healing which got pushed up). overall i think its just...a straight nerf to what was already one of the weaker cleric subclasses
    Snip.
    .
    Yes, it is a straight nerf.
    And, No, they won't function anything like a 5e cleric.

    You WILL prepare 4xlvl1 spells, you WILL prepare 3xlvl2 spells, you WILL prepare 3xlvl3 spells, etc, by character lvl6. Which honestly, is a lot of spells, but wow would I love to not prepare them in those lower slots, and "slot-up" my preps to higher level "this *could* be useful" stuff, after just having Bless and Healing Word covered in the lower ones.

    It's a very different game in that.
    Hell, think of the poor Druids, that now can't compete with Wizards. I mean, think of the poor Wizards.... They actually have to prepare lvl1 spells, all-the-time.... No matter how many scrolls they "find/ get-given-by-the-DM". What are they going to do now?

    Lol
    Last edited by sambojin; 2022-12-01 at 11:53 PM.

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Thanks!

    Well, I must say I'm pretty puzzled on many points, especially on how Jump is still an action. Before the big stuff, though, I got a question: was the way to get out of the Grappled condition already a Saving Throw in the last playtest?



    On top of that it seems all the spells, including lvl 0 ones, are entirely "you choose what you want each day".

    So yeah, less identity overall.

    EDIT:

    The wording of the Holy Order: Scholar feature is really odd. You select two new Skills in which you get Proficiency, and you can add your WIS mod to those specific Skills. But all those Skills are what the Cleric can get at lvl 1, so... you can't be a Scholar at a Skill you already have? Or alternatively, you can be a Scholar at the Skill you already have, but if you do you don't get an additional skill and just the WIS mod to the skill?
    Hill Giant Goliath archer/spell caster knocking flying creature prone. nice.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    So, personal thoughts after a first pass on this:

    Cleric - Seems fine by me. I like the new Holy Order feature. Doesn't honestly feel like a heck of a lot changed.

    Aardling - Leaning more into the animal traits is a good call, makes them feel less like they're trying to replace Aasimar. Nonetheless, my feeling that either Aasimar or a proper animal-person race like Tabaxi or Shifter (or both, if they feel both the celestial-person and animal-person niches need filling) would be better as a PHB choice remains unchanged.

    Dragonborn - Better, though I still prefer the Fizban's versions. "Spectral wings" doesn't really feel right to me - if you want to give them wings, give them actual physical wings, magical ones seem out of place. But then they can't justify their flight being limited-use, so they won't do that. In which case, maybe wings just isn't a good idea for the race, eh?

    Goliath - Very surprised to see these here. I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, mechanics look good, and I'm cool with them being a PHB race. On the other hand, they've never been descendants of the normal Giant types before, but cousins, and I don't know that I like that lore change to justify the mechanics, personally.

    Epic Boon of Truesight - See this WotC? This is what an Epic Boon should be. It's actually Epic. By comparison, the other Epic Boons in this document are pretty underwhelming. Maybe take a look at that.

    Banishment is now "repeat the save each turn," in addition to requiring concentration? Makes it a hell of a lot weaker. Not a fan.

    The "get inspiration on a natural 1" thing is still around. That's a pity.

    Resistance is now way better - but that 10 foot range might make it okay, actually. Keeping your party members that close to you at all times is not easy during a lot of fights, just ask any Paladin.
    Leave Goliaths as is. There is a giant book coming out next year. Have a Giant Kin lineage if you want to add the different giant type traits.

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Did they say there were more than 39k feedbacks, and chose not to read more than that, or is it actually the number of feedbacks they've got (so far)?

    For example, I'd say I'm a regular consumer of all things "D&D", and I haven't given them any feedback since way back. Not because I'm disinterested in doing so, but rather because I haven't had the time to sit down and focus on doing it.

    I really doubt I'm the only one.
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Does shield of faith and a shield no longer stack? it’s still a low level spell if you have to run into melee for a brief period.

    Level 1 usually goes by very quickly, some groups even skip it all together.

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Heavy Armor waiting until 2nd level helps mitigate cleric dips for HA.
    But it really hurts regular clerics that want to use HA. If they Dex dump, which is one of the entire points of HA, they're looking at AC 12 at level 1 the the standard Chain Short.


    This alone is sufficient to indicate to me they're not really interested in feedback.
    Chain shirt is AC 13. Heavy armor wanting clerics at level 1 will instead be in scale mail and shield for AC 16 with 10 DX. It's a nerf but not a devastating one.
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    Rules existing are a dire threat to the divine power of the DM.

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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I still disagree. For starters, druids can be just as god-dependent as clerics, as stated in their description on PHB 64 (and enforced in settings like FR), and that doesn't stop them from being subclassless at level 1. Second, domains are also a voluntary association: "Choose one domain related to your deity." There is no thematic necessity for that decision to need to take place at 1st level; changing clerics so that you have to get to know your god a little bit before deciding which of their spheres of influence you want to most closely associate with is not just reasonable, I can see it as a thematic improvement over the original.
    The druid relationship with a god is much less pronounced than the cleric one in every game I've played. And even so, 'god' is different than 'circle'.

    I'm more amenable to your second point; it is possible to be a cleric of a God and choose which domain to follow later. But this only applies for deities with multiple domains, and at least in the PHB, most deities only have one. And even pushing the choice back, that still leaves you at level 1 without the system supporting you as a cleric of XYZ. You're just a generic...cleric.

    Quote Originally Posted by sambojin View Post
    I don't mind the Cleric. I would give them a lvl1 ribbon, and since this is 1dnd, I'd make it a spell. Or two. That don't really level all that well, but work pretty well on most of the campaign, so it's just a thing you can do. You follow your god, but how are you special in their eyes? About this special:

    -------
    Divine Service: At lvl1, you choose in which way you intend to serve your god. You have one of the following options, and always have these spells prepared (on top of your usual amount).

    Healing: you always have the Healing Word, and Sanctuary spells prepared.

    Martial: you always have the Heroism, and Shield of Faith spells prepared.

    Knowledge: You always have the Detect Good and Evil, and Detect Magic spells prepared.
    I think this is a great workaround, that restores the 1st level domain spells, gives you more flexibility, and lets you choose something that actually defines your character as a follower of whichever deity. If they have to keep the subclass at 3, I want them to add this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Ironically, in 1e, Druids were EXTREMELY hierarchical, being one of the classes (like the monk and assassin) that had to fight other druids to level up to the highest levels. There were limited numbers of druids who could possibly be of certain levels, with the last couple/few levels having only one druid at each of those levels. They had to challenge and defeat in a duel the druid of a level above them to gain the next level, and if they won, the druid they beat was either dead, or reduced by one level. If they lost, they are reset to the bottom of their current levle and have to gain exp to level up again before challenging them again.
    At high levels definitely. I don't recall how the flavor was dealt with at low levels...it would be an interesting comparison.

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    Ooh, went up from Unconscious your first round you are Dazed. I like that.
    Spoiler: Off topic
    Show
    Tangent for another thread that talks about this, if you must have something to avoid pop-up healing I'm ok with using this Dazed condition than exhaustion rules, current version or D&Done version.
    Quote Originally Posted by OvisCaedo View Post
    Rules existing are a dire threat to the divine power of the DM.

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    Chain shirt is AC 13. Heavy armor wanting clerics at level 1 will instead be in scale mail and shield for AC 16 with 10 DX. It's a nerf but not a devastating one.
    The standard equipment for Clerics in the UA is a Chain Shirt and no shield, and Dex 8 is far more the norm IMX for HA wearing characters.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: OneD&D UA - THE CLERIC AND REVISED SPECIES

    Fix a Cleric/ Build-A-Bear Cleric on 1dnd from the current UA:

    -------
    Divine Service: At lvl1, you choose in which way you intend to serve your god. You have one of the following options, and always have these spells prepared (on top of your usual amount).

    Healing: you always have the Healing Word, and Sanctuary spells prepared.

    Martial: you always have the Heroism, and Shield of Faith spells prepared.

    Knowledge: You always have the Detect Good and Evil, and Detect Magic spells prepared.
    --------

    ++ (Or chose from any of these)

    Dis/~/Order: Compelled Duel and Command.
    Hidden: Disguise Self and Fog Cloud.
    Temporal: Expeditious Retreat and Longstrider.
    Natural: Speak with Animals and Hunter's Mark.
    Magical: Guiding Bolt and Faerie Fire.
    Illusion: Silent Image and Unseen Servant.
    ---------

    ^add to list above, but this is my current "Fix a Cleric" thing. Just lvl1 non-domain spell preps on a choice list. 1-of-9 currently, but pretty cool regardless. Choose your Holy Order at lvl2, and subclass/ domain/ big-god-bonus at lvl3, as normal. Would this fix Cleric properly, in your eyes?
    Last edited by sambojin; 2022-12-02 at 01:47 AM.

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