Vote Up A Campaign Setting: Discussion Thread II

[afroakuma]

Why do the Lizardfolk worship a Death god?

Before jumping to conclusions, do remember that the tenets of this setting are a bit different. For example, our sun god is considered evil, sten and unyielding, and has Punishment as a domain. Similarly, the god of magic is a disorganized opportunist.

[Juhn]

So, then, by the same token Sidaru is a god of peaceful and respectful passing, or something?

I approve.

[afroakuma]

*shrug* I don't see why not to trickle a little information down.

Adimas is the opportunistic, frivolous, carefree god of magic. His domains are Chaos, Cunning, Luck and Magic.
Daq is the capricious, moderate deity of decision, direction and fate. His domains are Destiny, Evil and Good.
Johoum is the stern, punishing god of the sun. His domains are Destruction, Punishment, Strength and Sun.
Limalia is the harsh, vindictive, uncaring goddess of wisdom. Her domains are Hardship, Travel and Water.
Maqur is the treacherous, seductive and erratic goddess of sin. Her domains are Betrayal, Fire and Trickery.
Pashati is the benevolent, mothering goddess of the rains. Her domains are Cleansing, Healing and Plant.
Qirus was already detailed.
Sidaru is the austere, serene, distant god of death. His domains are Death, Law and Peace.
Umaj is the feral, instinctual demiurge of nature. Her domains are Animal, Earth and Wild.

(You may notice something about the domains.)

[paddyfool]

I note that no alignment domain repeats itself; one corrolary of this is that alignment domains are few and far between, and only come one at a time, putting all "deities" apparently within a step or so of TN. I also note that the goddess of Wisdom doesn't have the Knowledge domain, or any other domains traditionally associated with Wisdom, but that's a minor detail.

However, I haven't looked up Qirus, so I may be missing something...

[afroakuma]

The aspects do not have normal access to the domains of their alignment, although Sidaru is lawful and Adimas is chaotic.

There is also one missing aspect, who has the Air and Knowledge domains. Qirus holds the Protection and War domains.

And Limalia is the goddess of wisdom, not knowledge. Her mandate is experience, learning "the hard way," adventure, self-reliance.

[Juhn]

Waharim is the missing Aspect, evidently. Don't know much about that one, other than his/her domains now. His/Her symbol seems to be a fountain, or something. (I'm gonna guess Waharim is a he, though, purely based on the name sounding more maculine than feminine to me. It's also fun to say. Waharim!)

And from what I remember of the character concept I posted, Sidaru is certainly a better fit than Pashati, and I can't see him taking to worshipping any non-Lizadfolk dieties, so it looks like the decision has been made there.

[unosarta]

um, just wondering, if this is a desert-like setting, why does a vindictive goddess have the water domain, and why does the rain goddess not have the water domain?

[afroakuma]

What, horrid wilting as the 8th level spell isn't enough? :smallcool:

Limalia is goddess of the seas, the oases, of journeying. She has the Water domain because she has sole jurisdiction over the oceans, and because she is the grudging provider to the resolute, the questing; to those who toil in life, and to those not yet given the chance to learn for themselves. She is vindictive to those who take her for granted, or those who take the easy path, or do not show her deference. Limalia giveth and Limalia taketh away.

Pashati's providence is in growth, life, renewal. The Plant and Cleansing domains reflect this.

[unosarta]

What, horrid wilting as the 8th level spell isn't enough? :smallcool:

Limalia is goddess of the seas, the oases, of journeying. She has the Water domain because she has sole jurisdiction over the oceans, and because she is the grudging provider to the resolute, the questing; to those who toil in life, and to those not yet given the chance to learn for themselves. She is vindictive to those who take her for granted, or those who take the easy path, or do not show her deference. Limalia giveth and Limalia taketh away.

Pashati's providence is in growth, life, renewal. The Plant and Cleansing domains reflect this.

Ah, I see. thank you for explaining it. that makes a lot of sense. it just seemed like weird flavor for a place where you would covet water, to have a , and i quote "harsh, vindictive, uncaring goddess" to also have water as an aspect, but the way you explain it seems more logical.

[Juhn]

Limalia sounds very similar to Zeboim.

But I suppose there's only so many ways you can go when it comes to "vindictive sea goddess".

[Athaniar]

The Law of Dandan: The more people are told something is not interesting, the more interested they become.

And I notice Daq has both Good and Evil as domains. Can a cleric of Daq take both Good and Evil as his/her domains?

[afroakuma]

Limalia sounds very similar to Zeboim.

But I suppose there's only so many ways you can go when it comes to "vindictive sea goddess".

Actually, I would say no. Despite the fact that she's neutral evil, she's not malicious or malevolent - just harsh and uncaring.

And her dominion is largely the desert, the oases and rivers - Hardship is her focus domain, after all. She has jurisdiction over the sea because she is the goddess of travels, and she tends to favor sailors.
She's about as good as an evil goddess can get.


The Law of Dandan: The more people are told something is not interesting, the more interested they become.

What? Seriously, what more can I say that I have not already said? About the only thing I haven't given you is its stat block, and you're not getting that. Can't you just drop it already? I've been as flat-out open as I've ever been on the subject: he's a Colossal fish that eats things. He's hard to kill. Nobody bothers to try. End of story. He doesn't even live in a fixed location. There is nothing interesting there. NOTHING.

What do you want from me that is not stats? What? Tell me. Tell me now. I'm going to tell you every BLOODY thing you think is left about that stupid giant fish that I am regretting even letting into the setting now and then there will be nothing left to tell, and therefore nothing left to ask or speculate about. Agreed?


And I notice Daq has both Good and Evil as domains. Can a cleric of Daq take both Good and Evil as his/her domains?

Yes indeed.

[Juhn]

I believe Xavius was just pointing out the strangeness of the Dandan phenomenon, not asking for more information. I don't know why people are so interested in Dandan either. It's a giant fish that swims around and eats things. The end. This is not some cunning plot to distract the people away from something thoroughly interesting. We just already know pretty much all there is to know about Dandan, so there's really nothing more to say about him.

I don't get it either.

[afroakuma]

Any new questions for me?

[Alteran]

Can you give me a list of place names? I don't really care if you don't bother with descriptions or whatnot, I'm interested in seeing a list of 'em.

[Juhn]

Sure, I have a question: did you end up including those Efreeti glassblowers?

I will have you know that I will be immensely disappointed if you didn't.

[afroakuma]

Can you give me a list of place names? I don't really care if you don't bother with descriptions or whatnot, I'm interested in seeing a list of 'em.

Er... that would be kinda huge...


Sure, I have a question: did you end up including those Efreeti glassblowers?


Yep.

[S. J. Floyd]

What? Seriously, what more can I say that I have not already said? About the only thing I haven't given you is its stat block, and you're not getting that. Can't you just drop it already? I've been as flat-out open as I've ever been on the subject: he's a Colossal fish that eats things. He's hard to kill. Nobody bothers to try. End of story. He doesn't even live in a fixed location. There is nothing interesting there. NOTHING.

What do you want from me that is not stats? What? Tell me. Tell me now. I'm going to tell you every BLOODY thing you think is left about that stupid giant fish that I am regretting even letting into the setting now and then there will be nothing left to tell, and therefore nothing left to ask or speculate about. Agreed?

... Strangely, I think I like being out of this particular loop.

Okay, here's a different question for you: Do djinnis, or mystically powerful beings in general, get into feuds often?

Fights like that would be pretty impressive, and dangerous too.

[Alteran]

Er... that would be kinda huge...


I'm hoping. :smallwink:

You can always just give me an excerpt, but it's not like I'll complain at a huge list.

[Juhn]

Let's hear about them glassblowers, then.

Assuming there's anything really to tell.

And also, a question for Zeta:


we take no responsibility for any steampunk elements that sneak into this setting.

We've got some robots from the Nights, apparently, but did you ever manage to sneak any Steampunk into this setting?

[afroakuma]

... Strangely, I think I like being out of this particular loop.

I envy you that. :smallsigh:


Okay, here's a different question for you: Do djinnis, or mystically powerful beings in general, get into feuds often?

Oh yes. Marids in particular incite problems among genie races.


Let's hear about them glassblowers, then.

Uh... they blow glass.


We've got some robots from the Nights, apparently, but did you ever manage to sneak any Steampunk into this setting?

*hefts the Quashhammer menacingly.*

No, no he has not.

And there are no robots.

[Juhn]

Uh... they blow glass.
Hence why I said "assuming there's anything really to tell".


*hefts the Quashhammer menacingly.*

No, no he has not.

And there are no robots.

Is that me you're threatening with the Quashhammer, or Zeta? If you'll recall, I campaigned hard against Steampunk. Of course, it's always possible that you're simply trying to head off any more Kobold Carthage discussions.

Disclaimer: Kobold Carthage does not exist. It will never exist. I take no responsibility for anyone choosing to ignore this disclaimer and talk about it anyway.

[afroakuma]

Is that me you're threatening with the Quashhammer, or Zeta?

Why can't it be both? :smallamused:

Sadly, one of the design team is not big on robots.

Said individual ate them all. It was MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[Shadow_Elf]

Why can't it be both? :smallamused:

Sadly, one of the design team is not big on robots.

Said individual ate them all. It was MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Wasn't me, thats for sure...

Oh, wait, Epic Ninja'd. That'll teach me not to highlight every single one of afro's posts...

[afroakuma]

That's how awesome a ninja I am. :smallamused:

[Juhn]

Obviously my Lizardman must now make robots. For the glory of Sidaru.

[afroakuma]

Obviously you have a tenuous grasp on your sanity.

[LucyHarris]

Wow...this whole, er, fish thing reminds me of the other fish thing, which I thankfully missed. Though for the record, I could care less about what's-its-name. RAKSHASA, on the other hand...

[Juhn]

...It was a joke. None of my concepts were Artificier, at any rate. And I'm pretty sure that trying to build robots would get him some really weird looks from his fellow Lizardfolk.

[afroakuma]

No other questions for me?

[Lord_Gareth]

I don't know how to use the Forum Roller, so I'll take ten and add +9 (5 ranks, +2 intelligence modifier, +4 competence bonus from my DM levels, -2 homebrew penalty). What's a nineteen get me?

(And Afro, you don't hypothetically worship a deity. You get on your knees and pray for guidance. To paraphrase Anubis from American Gods: "My job is to kick the deity. If it kicks me back, it's alive.")

[Alteran]

No other questions for me?

Is that a no on the list of location names? (Limited or otherwise)

[afroakuma]

I don't know how to use the Forum Roller, so I'll take ten and add +9 (5 ranks, +2 intelligence modifier, +4 competence bonus from my DM levels, -2 homebrew penalty). What's a nineteen get me?

Sand Golem.


(And Afro, you don't hypothetically worship a deity. You get on your knees and pray for guidance.

That method would fail miserably.


To paraphrase Anubis from American Gods: "My job is to kick the deity. If it kicks me back, it's alive.")

Huh... I don't recall that line.

Further inquiries?

[Zeta Kai]

1) The only thing that I can add to the Dandan "discussion" is that it was designed to be similar to the Tarrasque, only without its many obvious weaknesses. Sit down & make a list of 10 easy ways to pwn the Big T; I'd bet that almost none of them will work on the Big D.

2) I have not worked any steampunk into the setting, nor have I ever promised to. And to me, Steampunk ≠ Robots. I may work something like this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#apparatusoftheCrab) into the setting, but only if its appropriate.

3) EDIT: DC19: “Some reckless mages have made automatons using whatever material was abundant & readily available, with grievous consequences.” A character making this check recalls all construct traits.

4) Rakshasa still need to be nailed down in our setting. Until we state otherwise, assume that they are basically the same as they are in the Monster Manual.

5) Here are some context-less locations, specifically the ABC's of Siraaj:

Empire of Admaja (ahd-MAH-jah)
Aqur (ah-KOOR)
Alaqur (ah-lah-KOOR)
Albaluri (AHL-bah-LOO-ree)
Alhurus Lake (ahl-HOR-us)
Azhan (AH-jahn)
Babalarud (bah-BAH-lah-RUDE)
Bhul (BOOL)
Blood Rock
Bone Bridge
Burdusq (boor-DUSK)
City of God

[Lord_Gareth]

The actual line is, "My job is to kick the corpse. If it doesn't kick me back, I hand it over."

[afroakuma]

Still no remembering. Ah well. I'll just have to reread the entire book.

[Lord_Gareth]

I don't know how to use the Forum Roller, so I'll take ten and add +9 (5 ranks, +2 intelligence modifier, +4 competence bonus from my DM levels, -2 homebrew penalty). What's a nineteen get me?

HEY ZETA, CHECK IT OUT

Sorry. Mildly irritated at the moment.

[Zeta Kai]

HEY ZETA, CHECK IT OUT

HEY GARETH, CHECK IT OUT :smallbiggrin: I edited my entry above. Enjoy.

[afroakuma]

:smalleek:

Um... what are you doing...

[Zeta Kai]

Retreating to my cave, to make more maps & such. <scurries away>

[Lord_Gareth]

Well I am holing up with a few days worth of rations in a library and sitting down to take twenty on my next Knowledge check.

*/takes twenty*

[afroakuma]

Good luck to you, sir.

Further questions?

[Lord_Gareth]

Druids - does the average person know OF them, and how would said average person react to meeting one? Are awakened animals common knowledge, or perhaps a common sight?

Do you have any class variants (similar to those seen in the PHBII) in the works? How about special materials?

Can Deva be summoned by the Summon Monster spells (similar to Archons/Guardinals/Eldarin)? Do they have an overall leader, or are they split along alignment lines?

[afroakuma]

Druids - does the average person know OF them

Varies by region.


and how would said average person react to meeting one?

If they know? Usually respect.

If not? Awe, wonder or fear; varies by region.


Are awakened animals common knowledge, or perhaps a common sight?

Neither nor.


Do you have any class variants (similar to those seen in the PHBII) in the works?

Not that I'm aware of.


How about special materials?

Yes.


Can Deva be summoned by the Summon Monster spells (similar to Archons/Guardinals/Eldarin)?

SRD says no.


Do they have an overall leader, or are they split along alignment lines?

The deva nations have governments, and not factioned by alignment.

[Lord_Gareth]

What kind of morality tales (read: Grimm's faerie tales) do lizardfolk parents tell their children? What about gnoll parents?

Are the "standard" celestials and fiends still present? Are beings with the half-fiend or half-celestial templates as common, more common, or less common than half-djinn? How are they treated? What happens when a celestial and a fiend do the no-no cha cha?

[afroakuma]

What kind of morality tales (read: Grimm's faerie tales) do lizardfolk parents tell their children? What about gnoll parents?

Remember that thing I said about the stuff that there's no way I've thought up? Welcome to that thing.


Are the "standard" celestials and fiends still present?

Archons: yes.
Guardinals: no.
Eladrin: no.
Angels: yes.
Devas: yes.
Devils: yes.
Demons: yes.
Anything else: not likely.


Are beings with the half-fiend or half-celestial templates as common, more common, or less common than half-djinn?

Far, far, far less common.


How are they treated?

No, you know what? No more answers on this until you tell me why the fascination with how various half-races are treated, what their role in society is, how their parents feel etc.

[Alteran]

What happens when a celestial and a fiend do the no-no cha cha?

I see what you did there. "Is this some kind of crappy joke?" "If it is, then you're looking at the punchline."

[Juhn]

Remember that thing I said about the stuff that there's no way I've thought up? Welcome to that thing.

He may have been fishing for a Lore post. We haven't gotten one of those in a while.


No, you know what? No more answers on this until you tell me why the fascination with how various half-races are treated, what their role in society is, how their parents feel etc.

Because we've already got me on Lizardfolk duty, and a couple people on Kobold duty, and someone on Rakshasa duty. Somebody needed to speak up for the half-breeds.

It occurs to me that we've got nobody on Gnoll duty though. Those poor sociable doggy people seem to be unliked, for reasons I cannot fathom.

And humans, well, nobody likes humans.

[afroakuma]

He may have been fishing for a Lore post. We haven't gotten one of those in a while.

Saying it is a better way of getting it, because then it doesn't have to be canon.


Because we've already got me on Lizardfolk duty, and a couple people on Kobold duty, and someone on Rakshasa duty. Somebody needed to speak up for the half-breeds.

Well sure, but he's going after every single half-breed, it seems. Half-celestials and half-fiends are obscure enough - now he also wants me to tell him what results from being both?

[Juhn]

Alright afro, can we see a Lore post? Perhaps one about the Gnolls, seeing as they're utterly ignored and in need of love?

Or maybe about one of the aspects?

And yeah, I hadn't noticed the non-playable half-breed part. Although, up until this point I hadn't realized Celestials exist in this setting.

[afroakuma]

And which aspect do you want to see?

[Juhn]

Sidaru? Umaj? Daq?

Or perhaps Waharim, since information on him is conspicuously missing.

[afroakuma]

Sidaru? Umaj? Daq?

I said pick one.


Or perhaps Waharim, since information on him is conspicuously missing.

If there's one thing we learned from the Djinn Lord episode, it's that if something is that conspicuously absent and I point it out... there's a reason.

Waharim is not on the table.

[LucyHarris]

4) Rakshasa still need to be nailed down in our setting. Until we state otherwise, assume that they are basically the same as they are in the Monster Manual.

Awww, nuts.



What happens when a celestial and a fiend do the no-no cha cha?

I see what you did there. "Is this some kind of crappy joke?" "If it is, then you're looking at the punchline."

I laughed much harder at this than I probably should have.


And humans, well, nobody likes humans.

Hey, I like humans!

[afroakuma]

Awww, nuts.

Never mind him. He's full of lies.

[LucyHarris]

*Perks up* Orly?

Oh, and something that just occurred to me, though it's probably been asked before: the world has all the mundane animals (sans dinosaurs, I'd assume) that you find in the first MM, right?

Rakshasa: Of all the aspects there are to worship, is there one they seem to favor most? What one do they pay little attention to?

[S. J. Floyd]

Let's see, everyone else is working the race angle... Here's two questions about geography and landscaping (sort of).

Is there a stretch of desert that is known for being incredibly dangerous and has thus never been successfully mapped? A perfect spot for a DM to place their hidden kingdom/lair, to use other words? And if there is, what is the area's name?

How much detail do you intend on putting into describing the cities and towns? Just curious is all.

[Juhn]

I said pick one.

Alright. Aince it's the one I'm most likely to use, let's go with Sidaru. Daq might make for a more interesting story, so I'll try for him later.


If there's one thing we learned from the Djinn Lord episode, it's that if something is that conspicuously absent and I point it out... there's a reason.

Waharim is not on the table.

You could have just said you're not that far yet. That's perfectly valid.

[afroakuma]

Is there a stretch of desert that is known for being incredibly dangerous and has thus never been successfully mapped?

Several. There's a reason there are Cartographers' Guilds (one of the primary contractors of adventurers) in each of the non-cardinal directions.

Oh, that's another thing I should point out. The non-cardinal directions are just as important, if not moreso, than the cardinal directions, owing to the fact that some of the largest and most prominent city-states are essentially arrayed in an X, while the east is almost entirely a massive swath of desert and the north is dominated by an imposing mountain rage,


How much detail do you intend on putting into describing the cities and towns? Just curious is all.

It will vary, but I know Zeta's been burning the midnight oil making his maps. I saw the City of God, and it's good enough to run a campaign in.

Anyways, lore on Sidaru. Hmm...

[Lord_Gareth]

No, you know what? No more answers on this until you tell me why the fascination with how various half-races are treated, what their role in society is, how their parents feel etc.

Well, there's a lot of reasons, but they all come down to this - when I make a character in the setting, I want to know what it's like to be that person. Half-breeds with supernatural parents like Djinn or an Archon or whatever occupy a very curious position in the world. They're clearly not human, but they aren't quite their parents either. The host of things that can affect their growth and outlook on the world is innumerable, and it starts with their relationship to their parents. Imagine the dilemma of a celestial who has a half-mortal daughter; do you treat them like a celestial and assume they cannot be corrupted? Do you distrust them for being part mortal, and therefore fallible? Do they have a duty to good above all else, or can they choose? Imagine a succubus mother whose child begs her to spare a man's life (remember, Succubi are the fiends most likely to turn to good, especially for love). These things fascinate me - the character development potential is extraordinary.

So, I keep asking you because your team determines the society and culture of the world I'm going to be playing in. Thus, the questions. Happy now?

(And the Celestial/Fiend thing was a joke, but I won't say no to an answer)

[S. J. Floyd]

Several. There's a reason there are Cartographers' Guilds (one of the primary contractors of adventurers) in each of the non-cardinal directions.

Oh, that's another thing I should point out. The non-cardinal directions are just as important, if not moreso, than the cardinal directions, owing to the fact that some of the largest and most prominent city-states are essentially arrayed in an X, while the east is almost entirely a massive swath of desert and the north is dominated by an imposing mountain rage,

Okay. Is there a specific reason why the major city-states are spread in X-shaped patterns from each other, or is it just an interesting detail to throw in and slap on some Insta-lore later?

Second question: Say a Chaotic-Evil party decided to slaughter the population of the city they're in, and actually manage to waste most of the human guards that try to intervene as well. What other possibly more secret peacekeepers might the local ruler employ to stop them?

[afroakuma]

Okay. Is there a specific reason why the major city-states are spread in X-shaped patterns from each other, or is it just an interesting detail to throw in and slap on some Insta-lore later?

Oh, very much yes.

Granted, it's partly due to geographic features.


Second question: Say a Chaotic-Evil party decided to slaughter the population of the city they're in, and actually manage to waste most of the human guards that try to intervene as well. What other possibly more secret peacekeepers might the local ruler employ to stop them?

I assume you're including the other mundanes under "human."

The local ruler is pretty much screwed at this point. Any agency willing to pick up the slack is going to be under-the-table and be offering their services for a terrible price.

Other than that? Contract mercenaries, or reach out to the thieves' guild, or tap the local temple for aid. Beyond that, law and order are screwed.

[Juhn]

Could the Sultan possibly have Dervishes assigned to protect him by a Church? Is any particular aspect particularly devoted to respecting authority?

Or, he could always hope that his grand vizier is secretly a powerful sorceror... :smallwink:

[afroakuma]

Could the Sultan possibly have Dervishes assigned to protect him by a Church? Is any particular aspect particularly devoted to respecting authority?

Qirus.


Or, he could always hope that his grand vizier is secretly a powerful sorceror... :smallwink:

I'd hardly categorize that under "hope." :smallamused:

[Juhn]

Ah, right, Qirus.

And it could be "hope", assuming he believes the vizier to be loyal. And really, even if he isn't, it's better than having your entire city destroyed.

[Lord_Gareth]

Well, there's a lot of reasons, but they all come down to this - when I make a character in the setting, I want to know what it's like to be that person. Half-breeds with supernatural parents like Djinn or an Archon or whatever occupy a very curious position in the world. They're clearly not human, but they aren't quite their parents either. The host of things that can affect their growth and outlook on the world is innumerable, and it starts with their relationship to their parents. Imagine the dilemma of a celestial who has a half-mortal daughter; do you treat them like a celestial and assume they cannot be corrupted? Do you distrust them for being part mortal, and therefore fallible? Do they have a duty to good above all else, or can they choose? Imagine a succubus mother whose child begs her to spare a man's life (remember, Succubi are the fiends most likely to turn to good, especially for love). These things fascinate me - the character development potential is extraordinary.

So, I keep asking you because your team determines the society and culture of the world I'm going to be playing in. Thus, the questions. Happy now?

(And the Celestial/Fiend thing was a joke, but I won't say no to an answer)

Hey Afro, I gave my explanation - now I demand yours :p

[afroakuma]

But why half-fiend and half-celestial? You'll almost never encounter one, let alone play one.

Not to mention, you think there's team fiat on them? Via the team's design notes so far, they're preposterously rare. Fin.

You want me to just come up with a canon answer on the spot, correct?

[BlueWizard]

Second question: Say a Chaotic-Evil party decided to slaughter the population of the city they're in, and actually manage to waste most of the human guards that try to intervene as well. What other possibly more secret peacekeepers might the local ruler employ to stop them?

Wizards. Always keep tough wizards around to stop these guys.

[Lord_Gareth]

I asked about half-djinn earlier as well. As for why I'm asking, you of all people should know that rarity is no deterrent for player interest. Additionally, rarity means that the way their parents interact with them becomes not only more important, but more extreme. I don't expect an answer on the spot; what I want is careful thought given to it, and then an answer.

[afroakuma]

Wizards. Always keep tough wizards around to stop these guys.

Not an option, on account of you're more afraid of the wizard.


I asked about half-djinn earlier as well.

Of course, they're an actual race in this setting, so I have no issues with that.


As for why I'm asking, you of all people should know that rarity is no deterrent for player interest.

Continuously becoming true in new and savage ways. :smallsigh:


Additionally, rarity means that the way their parents interact with them becomes not only more important, but more extreme. I don't expect an answer on the spot; what I want is careful thought given to it, and then an answer.

But there is no set answer - their rarity means there can't be! They're not a people, a cultural group or even a visible minority - they're a freak happenstance. There's no single answer, because any parent will have no similar case to learn from. You're basically asking for a few character ideas out of me.

[Lord_Gareth]

Right there, you had a sort-of answer; freak happenstance. Now, I'm not going to treat the following as canon, but that simple phrase can imply a wealth of things: immortal/mortal parents don't know that such things are possible. They react with wonder/fear to the birth of their half-immortal child and may worry about what the child is, how to raise it, and if they should even let it live. Do you see?

[afroakuma]

Right there, you had a sort-of answer

No, bloody no. Evidently I simply picked the wrong way to rephrase preposterouly rare.


that simple phrase can imply a wealth of things: immortal/mortal parents don't know that such things are possible. They react with wonder/fear to the birth of their half-immortal child and may worry about what the child is, how to raise it, and if they should even let it live. Do you see?

And what do you want the answer to be?

[Lord_Gareth]

What do I want the answer to be?

I don't care.

I'm not after anything more specific than the existence of an answer. I wish to know, Afro. The worst that can happen is that your answer raises more questions - other than that, I'll accept what you say as long as it's an answer and not an evasion.

[afroakuma]

I'm not after anything more specific than the existence of an answer.

That's what I've been saying: there does not exist an answer. Every parent of such a child would approach it in their own fashion, because there's no one to reach out to. There's no Internet to say, "my child looks like me, but is utterly incapable of hearing or producing music, and oh yes, her father was African-American. Anyone else in the same situation? What are you doing about it?" There are no medical textbooks to read up on this rare genetic combination.

Now, I have this from you: I'm not after anything more specific than the existence of an answer.

Very well then, each family has its own answer. Does this satisfy you? I thought not.

[Magnor Criol]

And it could be "hope", assuming he believes the vizier to be loyal.

Viziers are never loyal. You could take Captain America, make him a vizier, and all of a sudden he'd be a conniving backstabber. It's a side effect of the title.

Gareth, I think the problem here is that you're asking for something that doesn't really exist. You want afro to tell you how a half-celestial/half-fiend would be treated, but you can't say that because it's so rare that it'd come down to an individual basis. So in a way the only way to answer your question is to go through each fiend and each celestial individually to say "This one would treat it well, this one would be horrified, this one would accidentally drop it on its head and give it brain damage as a child."

I understand your curiosity, because I'm curious too, but from where I'm sitting here it seems like y'all are getting in a debate because you're both saying different things and not catching the other one's meaning. Communication breakdown.

[afroakuma]

Either his attention has been drawn elsewhere, or I'm about to get an epic bombing.

Prismatic sphere in any event.

*hides*

[Lord_Gareth]

Mags, I'm asking about half-fiends and half-celestials in general.

@Afro - Fine. Here's some questions you can answer that are related. So, in event of genetic freakiness:

- Are archons/eldarins likely to even start a "family" with a mortal who catches their interest, or more likely to engage in one-night stands? Ditto demons/devils.

- In the event of a child, what outsiders are most likely to try and make a family unit work, who is most likely to leave the child with the mortal, and who is most likely to try and raise the child themselves? I'd ask what a mortal would do with the child, but any mortal having intimate relationships with a celestial/infernal being has some serious class levels going on and thus are not subject to the "average" superstitions.

- In the event of a mortal having any supernatural baby, would they be likely to consult a religious figure? Seek out a sorcerer? Try to ask a genie for advice? Just kill it and drink the memories away?

- A Half-Djinn walks into a bar, and...?

[Magnor Criol]

Mags, I'm asking about half-fiends and half-celestials in general.

See? Communication breakdown. I think he was under the impression you were focusing primarily on the two in tandem. Certainly, I thought you were. =p

Also, those are all really good questions. This one seconds them.

[afroakuma]

Are archons/eldarins likely to even start a "family" with a mortal who catches their interest, or more likely to engage in one-night stands?

Neither race would, one being composed primarily of floating balls of light and the other not being present in the campaign setting.

Devas are the one you're looking for, and they're impartial. They do marry, though. The onus is really on the adventuring mortal, assuming Najmah. On Siraaj, the deva has less choice... that one will be the one-night stand.


Ditto demons/devils.

One-night stand. Come on, man - they're evil. Except a demon's probably also going to kill you.

Happy now?


In the event of a child, what outsiders are most likely to try and make a family unit work, who is most likely to leave the child with the mortal, and who is most likely to try and raise the child themselves?

See above, with the exception that devas might do any of the three, being as how they come in three flavors and all.

I promise you, there is nothing in this regard that is any different from core D&D.


I'd ask what a mortal would do with the child, but any mortal having intimate relationships with a celestial/infernal being has some serious class levels going on and thus are not subject to the "average" superstitions.

A) Some of the most prolific mortals on Najmah are low-level.

B) Buddy, you are never exempt from superstitions. Magic is real and scary. :smallcool:


In the event of a mortal having any supernatural baby, would they be likely to consult a religious figure?

Entirely up to individual choice, not to mention the deity you follow, your race, where you live...


Seek out a sorcerer?

I wouldn't think so, but I don't see why not.


Try to ask a genie for advice?

That would require belief in genies.


Just kill it and drink the memories away?

Entirely up to individual choice.

I repeat again: there are no fixed answers. Knock yourself out; go wild. There is nothing to say that a devil won't want a mortal man for her favorite consort and stud. There's nothing to say a demon won't teach its little half-breed how to be a sleeper agent. There's nothing to say a deva wouldn't consider its puling spawn to be an aberration and dash its head against the rocks.

What do you want from me? Declarative statements? Hard, fast answers? A set of rules graven in stone?


A Half-Djinn walks into a bar, and...?

I don't follow, but since I'm protected from your rage, I'm gonna go with "Ouch." :smallbiggrin:

[Lord_Gareth]

Keep in mind that one-night stands are not necessarily evil, and are usually solidly nuetral unless you're a lying, scheming, heartbreaking SOB.
Furthermore, a devil may just try to make a family work - after all, a family is a social structure that it can not only rule, but use as a tool and a weapon.

Or, y'know, said devil might try to reform. Got to love that 5% exception rate to "Always [Alignment]".

And I've been fishing for Lore posts for three days now. Gimmie one, damnit, or I'll start throwing around Disjunctions and Hellballs!

Furthermore, you're clearly either forgetting or not including such beings as Hound Archons, Throne Archons, Warden Archons, Trumpet Archons...

[afroakuma]

Keep in mind that one-night stands are not necessarily evil

Sure, but a being made of evil is probably not a big fan of commitment, responsibility, fidelity and obligation.


Furthermore, a devil may just try to make a family work - after all, a family is a social structure that it can not only rule, but use as a tool and a weapon.

Or, y'know, said devil might try to reform. Got to love that 5% exception rate to "Always [Alignment]".

My point exactly on wasting time giving answers to these questions, except you just sapped even further value from it with that last statement. There are no fixed answers, barely any tenuous ones and you're running around severing the few threads I've tied down?


And I've been fishing for Lore posts for three days now. Gimmie one, damnit, or I'll start throwing around Disjunctions and Hellballs!

Fishing doesn't work. State outright what you want.


Furthermore, you're clearly either forgetting or not including such beings as Hound Archons, Throne Archons, Warden Archons, Trumpet Archons...

Hounds might procreate, although they're generally busy. If you want a half-celestial gnoll, hound archon's your guy. Trumpet archons are almost always too busy.

Thrones and wardens aren't OGL, so yes, I am ignoring them.

I find it amusing how I actually try to help and you respond by running around with an axe.

Tell me what you want me to say.

[Lord_Gareth]

Afro, fidelity/responsibility/obligation/commitment are lawful concepts, not Good or Evil ones. A polygamous relationship in the D&D universe is exactly as valid as a monogamous one - hence my point on Devils, which are lawful beings.

And don't worry - I do this to everyone, the picking-apart thing. I like to know the rules and generalities before I violate them (it helps with justifying the violations, you see).

Start with the "morality tales" question - that could not have been more obvious when I stated it. And if you haven't thought of it yet, start thinking :p

[afroakuma]

Afro, fidelity/responsibility/obligation/commitment are lawful concepts, not Good or Evil ones.

Care for a life that you've helped create does land on the good/evil line, as does concern for the welfare of others.[/QUOTE]


A polygamous relationship in the D&D universe is exactly as valid as a monogamous one - hence my point on Devils, which are lawful beings.

Polyandry will also be notable in many places.


And don't worry - I do this to everyone, the picking-apart thing. I like to know the rules and generalities before I violate them (it helps with justifying the violations, you see).

Ah, I see - so you're telling me I shouldn't play along, since you're only asking me to point to where you should shoot me in the foot.


Start with the "morality tales" question

No.


that could not have been more obvious when I stated it.

And yet I chose to ignore it anyway.

[Juhn]

Fishing doesn't work. State outright what you want.

Speaking of which, how's that Sidaru Lore post coming along?

[afroakuma]

It'll happen in due course.

[S. J. Floyd]

Tell me what you want me to say.

Sure. Here's a vague plot hook, would it work within the setting?


In desperate (or not) need of money, the party takes on a job guarding a caravan en route between two cities. However, they are unable to prevent a gang of bandits from stealing several thousand gold pieces worth of goods and the merchant employer demands that they do one of three things: 1. Find the bandits and take back the cargo 2. Pay for the lost cargo themselves since they failed to protect it, and 3. Do him a (highly dangerous) favor in asking for his beloved to return to him (he believes the adventurers would either justly die on the way to her home or succeed and bring her back, a win-win situation).

Option 2 is almost certainly right out the window as the party shouldn't have enough money to pay at that time, and if they do and decide to pay, well, they don't get much xp or any other rewards, they just lose a lot of money and gain a good feeling for themselves.


Well, that's that. What do ya think, is this at least a valid premise for an adventure in the setting? (Granted, it doesn't look like there's much keeping it from popping up in any old setting, the more setting-specific details were toward the end of the plot outline.)

[afroakuma]

Looks sound.

[Zeta Kai]

Sure. Here's a vague plot hook, would it work within the setting?

I agree, this does look good. I think that it would fit the setting fairly well. Good job, & thanks for the contribution to the conversation.

[Lord_Gareth]

Care for a life that you've helped create does land on the good/evil line, as does concern for the welfare of others.

Who says they care about them or their welfare except insofar as they may be used as tools or servants?



Ah, I see - so you're telling me I shouldn't play along, since you're only asking me to point to where you should shoot me in the foot.

No. What I'm telling you is that I'm going to keep asking you questions, and that my ultimate intent in asking these questions is to get a feel for this setting's "normal" so that, when I go to make a PC in it at a later date, I can make someone "exceptional" or at least "different".

[afroakuma]

No. What I'm telling you is that I'm going to keep asking you questions, and that my ultimate intent in asking these questions is to get a feel for this setting's "normal" so that, when I go to make a PC in it at a later date, I can make someone "exceptional" or at least "different".

Yes, but the questions you're currently asking are about the setting's "exceptional" and "different."

[Lord_Gareth]

Yes, but the questions you're currently asking are about the setting's "exceptional" and "different."

Indeed, so I'm trying to get ahold of as much "normal" as possible.

Now, can you answer the questions I had on the Half-Djinn - how their parents generally treat them, how genie society generally treats them, what do you mean by "if they believe in genies" and how societies that DON'T believe in genies deal with a half-djinn walking into town, et cetera et cetera.

[Llama231]

Soooo,.........

When is the next big release coming up?

[afroakuma]

Indeed, so I'm trying to get ahold of as much "normal" as possible.

No you're not.

Let me put this in as blunt terms as possible:

If you choose to play a half-celestial or half-fiend, congratulations: you are now playing an "exceptional," "different" character. That right there is some preposterously defining weirdness. What you're trying to drill out of me is whether all half-celestials call their moms "Mamma" so yours can call her "Mother" or somesuch. That's frankly what any of your questions are worth as compared to the strangeness of just being half-celestial or half-fiend.


Now, can you answer the questions I had on the Half-Djinn

Repost?


what do you mean by "if they believe in genies"

...

Really?

This is really puzzling you?

I shall sort it out: some people don't believe in genies.


Soooo,.........

When is the next big release coming up?

Never.

The next time you'll see anything is when it's all out.

[Juhn]

In such an incredibly superstitious place, skepticism with regard to the existence of genies seems rather arbitrary (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArbitrarySkepticism).

Of course, I believe it was also in the descriptor for the winning magic level vote.

[afroakuma]

Look at it this way: people in our own world will steer clear of walking under ladders, throw salt over their shoulders and stay away from black cats. We too have a tendency not to believe in genies.

Now factor in that we have the privilege of communications with far-off places. Kamala does not have that ability, and they also have a bit of an education gap. To most people of Siraaj, genies are a myth. To some, they're real, and many other believe it as a matter of course. But for the majority, genies are a happy fabrication, like winning the lottery: you know it's happened, but really, you don't ever expect to encounter it.

[Juhn]

So, they do believe in genies (as in, that they do exist, somewhere), they just won't believe you if you say you've seen one ('somewhere' is always 'far away from here')?

Makes sense to me.

Also note that I got myself with that TVTropes link I posted and that is why this response is coming three hours after the fact.

[afroakuma]

No, a good portion of the population in fact does not believe in genies. They're too busy believing in scarier, more proximate things. Rocs, for example. Hieracosphinxes. Wizards and sorcerers.

[LucyHarris]

Oh, and something that just occurred to me, though it's probably been asked before: the world has all the mundane animals (sans dinosaurs, I'd assume) that you find in the first MM, right?

Rakshasa: Of all the aspects there are to worship, is there one they seem to favor most? What one do they pay little attention to?

*Pokes* Anybody? Answers?

[afroakuma]

Tsk. My error.


Oh, and something that just occurred to me, though it's probably been asked before: the world has all the mundane animals (sans dinosaurs, I'd assume) that you find in the first MM, right?

*shrug* if they are native to the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt or western India, then yes. I really don't feel like going for a search at the moment.


Rakshasa: Of all the aspects there are to worship, is there one they seem to favor most? What one do they pay little attention to?

They ignore them all equally.

[Szilard]

*shrug* if they are native to the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt or western India, then yes. I really don't feel like going for a search at the moment.

Does this include things that used to be native to those places? Like dinosaurs?

[afroakuma]

Does this include things that used to be native to those places? Like dinosaurs?

Never. Dinosaurs can go jump off a cliff. I'd have to switch to stronger language to describe how much I want dinosaurs to go die in flames, and they aren't worth the infraction.

[Juhn]

That's... an inordinate degree of seething hatred for that particular anachronism.

Though the presence of dinosaurs in DnD has always been a little "Wait, what?"

[afroakuma]

My point precisely. I absolutely loathe dinosaurs being in D&D. So they're not in the setting. Tada.

Simple. Elegant.

[Lord_Gareth]

No you're not.

Yes, I am. Allow me to put this bluntly:

I'm not being malicious here. I'm not asking these questions to screw with you, mess with your setting, or otherwise anger you. Malicious comes later, when I'm playing in the setting under a DM. In the meantime, I'm honestly asking these questions to see if there's any discernable pattern at all. If you'd told me that Devas don't trust half-celestials because their mortal blood "leaves them open to corruption," I would have nodded my head and moved on. Likewise, if you'd told me they trust them implicitly because their celestial blood "places them above doubt", I would have also nodded my head and moved on.

I'm not attacking you. I'm just curious. Furthermore, rarity doesn't mean there's no pattern; Tieflings/Aasimar are extremely rare on Oerth, but there's still patterns of treatment, superstition, and societal acceptance about them.

As for the half-Djinn questions, since they're more common/prevalent in your setting: How are half-Djinn generally viewed by genies in general? What about mortals and mortal society? How do the genie parents in question generally view/treat a half-mortal son/daughter? Is there a social stigma/prestige on the mortal or genie half of the equation involved? What's it like on the physical/magical end of things for a half-Djinn growing up (an example of what I'm after is how a budding Sorcerer often causes magical accidents during puberty)? How long-lived are they? Are there any "gods" they're more drawn to worship? More drawn to hate? Do any of the various religions have issues or policies with/about them?

[Juhn]

You keep asking for something that does not exist. Asking for it over and over will not make it exist. The only plausible response is "They're too rare for there to be any patterns about them - each individual would be viewed on a case-by-case basis since there's absolutely no precedent to go by", which is the one you keep getting. You refuse to accept it, but that's really the only answer.

In short:


to see if there's any discernable pattern at all.

You should have seen sufficient evidence by now that indicates "no, there is no discernable pattern". You seem to be asking "what is the pattern," but utterly ignoring the "If there is a pattern" that necessarily has to come before that part.

[LordZarth]

On Earth, how are half-alien, quarter-deific, eighth-Russian, eighth-Nepalese, four-year-old, evil trickster hermaphrodite babies treated?

[Lord_Gareth]

On Earth, how are half-alien, quarter-deific, eighth-Russian, eighth-Nepalese, four-year-old, evil trickster hermaphrodite babies treated?

Ironically, the answer is easy and encapsulated in one sentence - "Kill it with fire!"

Seriously, did you think human beings on Earth were going to read past the "half-alien" part? We burn people to death for choosing the wrong religion, let alone for being only part-human.

[afroakuma]

I'm not being malicious here. I'm not asking these questions to screw with you, mess with your setting, or otherwise anger you. Malicious comes later, when I'm playing in the setting under a DM.

I did not believe that you were; I do, however, know that you want a standard only so that you can subvert it, which is not a constructive spirit, though the results in the short term are the same. Regardless, I don't care or mind your intent, except that in this instance it is misdirected.


In the meantime, I'm honestly asking these questions to see if there's any discernable pattern at all.

There is not, apart from this: half-fiends rarely live with their birth parents. The end. Which is no different than core D&D.


If you'd told me that Devas don't trust half-celestials because their mortal blood "leaves them open to corruption," I would have nodded my head and moved on. Likewise, if you'd told me they trust them implicitly because their celestial blood "places them above doubt", I would have also nodded my head and moved on.

So you want me to tell you which one to go with via negation?


I'm not attacking you. I'm just curious. Furthermore, rarity doesn't mean there's no pattern; Tieflings/Aasimar are extremely rare on Oerth, but there's still patterns of treatment, superstition, and societal acceptance about them.

Because they're still present in concentrations such that patterns are possible. I'm talking about literally one in a million people being a half-fiend or half-celestial, and their parents having literally no reference point on which to base their treatment of the child.


As for the half-Djinn questions, since they're more common/prevalent in your setting:

I could have sworn I answered these already...


How are half-Djinn generally viewed by genies in general?

I'm positive I answered this question before... it varies by genie race. I'll go back and search for the answers...

I swear they're on this thread somewhere.


What about mortals and mortal society?

A witch! May we burn her? But... she's made of fire already...

Depends on the area... a place with more genasi will care less, and it also depends on the visibility of the half-genie. Of course, when they start whipping out perceptible magic, they're no different from any other sorcerer, and hence... see above.


The rest

I'm gonna level with you: I hate these questions. I hate these sort of questions. I'll answer them later when I have time, but I really do loathe these. These, to me, are both highly circumstantial and also something that should lie within the player's own domain.

[Lord_Gareth]

So you want me to tell you which one to go with via negation?

Breaking standards isn't always a game of opposites. My thought patterns tend to be more along these lines - if something an enemy wants is to the west, I'll tell him it's to the south, so when he realizes I lied to him, he'll go north and waste more time.


I'm gonna level with you: I hate these questions. I hate these sort of questions. I'll answer them later when I have time, but I really do loathe these. These, to me, are both highly circumstantial and also something that should lie within the player's own domain.

C'mon, at least the puberty (random bits of elemental phenomena, maybe?) and the "what do religions do about them" are the province of setting generalities.

[Juhn]

I can't remember, did I ask that sort of questions when I was asking about Lizardfolk in the last thread? I really only remember asking about their societal structure, but if I did ask those sorts of questions I apologize.

Honestly, though, that sort of questions make sense. They are present in the write-ups for player races in core DnD: "Alignment", "Adventurers", etc. I think people are just trying to piece together those sections from your answers before they are officially released.

Unless I am misinterpreting what you mean by that sort of questions. The "What gods do they worship" certainly falls under that, though some of the other ones are incredibly specific.

[afroakuma]

I can't remember, did I ask that sort of questions when I was asking about Lizardfolk in the last thread? I really only remember asking about their societal structure, but if I did ask those sorts of questions I apologize.

Yours was mostly society.


Honestly, though, that sort of questions make sense. They are present in the write-ups for player races in core DnD: "Alignment", "Adventurers", etc. I think people are just trying to piece together those sections from your answers before they are officially released.

If this is true... *searing glare begins*


C'mon, at least the puberty (random bits of elemental phenomena, maybe?)

Most half-genies know they're half-genie. And have at least one parent who's in on the gag. This sort of thing is actually pretty uncommon, except for half-djinni figuring out they can *spell-like ability removed* and half-efreeti *verbing nouns preposition noun*, both of which they learn about earlier than puberty.


and the "what do religions do about them" are the province of setting generalities.

There are generalities regarding religion, but you don't get to know those yet, since they form part of the writeup mentioned above.

[S. J. Floyd]

I don't think there's a whole lot that can be asked at this point, beyond nitpicking the details. All we can do is wait for the finished product.

Still, I think I've got a final decent question before I settle down to twiddle my thumbs: There won't be any pyramids in the final draft of the setting, will there? Desert settings are one thing, but this is based mainly around the Arabian Nights stories, and I think the iconic Egyptian building might ruin dampen the spirit trying to be achieved.

At least I think pyramids didn't appear in the Arabian Nights.

[Zeta Kai]

Pyramids? No, I don't think we'll be doing any pyramids. We have squeezed in a couple of Egyptian elements here & there, but we try to keep it to a minimum, to focus on our core themes. So while you might see temples, monuments, & tombs, you won't be seeing pyramids in our setting.

Obelisks, however...

[Juhn]

Everybody loves obelisks.

Although, I believe that unlike pyramids, obelisks do not have built-in dungeons.

[afroakuma]

Shows what you know. :smalltongue:

[Zeta Kai]

Everybody loves obelisks.

Yes, & my pro-obelisk agenda has been clear for some time.

[LucyHarris]

*shrug* if they are native to the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt or western India, then yes. I really don't feel like going for a search at the moment.

Naww, don't worry about searching. It was just a random thing off the top of my head.


They ignore them all equally.

Bwahahaha...nice. ;)

Oh, and I wholeheartedly agree that obelisks are made of awesome. Especially ones that house dungeons.

[Juhn]

Shows what you know. :smalltongue:

Well, I'd be happy to be proven wrong in this particular case.

[S. J. Floyd]

An obelisk with a dungeon inside of it sounds almost like a typical evil wizard's tower. With the bonus that it's an obelisk, and has no windows. Sounds like an interesting idea, and I'm glad to hear about the no pyramids decision.


What kind of morality tales (read: Grimm's faerie tales) do lizardfolk parents tell their children? What about gnoll parents?


I had an idea about this earlier today, anybody mind if I take a(n unofficial) shot?

[afroakuma]

If you want to give it a go, by all means.

I am otherwise occupied at the moment.

[Juhn]

Well, as you're no longer occupied with VUAV X and this thread has somehow dropped all the way to page 2, how's that Sidaru lorepost coming?

[afroakuma]

Haven't given it a thought at all. Honestly, I seem to be really lacking inspiration there...

[Juhn]

Ah. Well, you had asked for a topic for a lore post, so I essentially gave you the first thing that came to mind that related to Lizardfolk.

I'm less concerned with not having gotten the lore post and more concerned with the utter lack of activity in this thread lately.

[afroakuma]

Well, our activity has been rather VUACS-centric. This thread is really for the audience.

[LucyHarris]

Ah, I would have posted here earlier, but I didn't know what to post that wouldn't look like a blatant bump. *fail*

[S. J. Floyd]

Speaking of the Lizardfolk, where does all of their relevant information begin building up in the threads? I've been working on the fairy tale a little and gotten a rough outline, something that could honestly work for just about any race, and all I need is some race-specifics to make it unique.

Here's something I don't know if you've answered yet: How do you use 'Lizardfolk" singularly, like how someone might derogatorily refer to someone by race rather than name?

[afroakuma]

Lizardman and lizardwoman. Scaleman and scalewoman if you're being colloquial.

[Zeta Kai]

In some places, scaley is considered a derogatory slur. In most places, though, it's merely informal.

[Juhn]

Lizardman and lizardwoman. Scaleman and scalewoman if you're being colloquial.

Yeah. I seem to remember myself accidentally using the plural of Lizardman instead of the proper term Lizardfolk on a regular basis throughout these threads. I blame Games Workshop.

Also, for posterity: the forum has eaten my posts no less than five times today.

[afroakuma]

Any other questions that take less than a Lore post to answer?

[Juhn]

My brain's kind of shot at the moment due to mountains of schoolwork, but let's see what I can come up with. Hmm. We already have a basic idea as to how the Lizardfolk view the various professions (and by extension, classes). How about gnolls? Other than being friendly and mercantile (and, inexplicably, also superb warriors), we don't know much about them. How is their heirarchy set up? Which jobs are likely to be viewed as the most respectable? The least?

[Alteran]

(and, inexplicably, also superb warriors)

I believe it was mentioned or implied that Gnolls still have some similarities to hyenas, whether or not they embrace them as a matter of course. That could explain a natural tendency towards excellence in combat.

[Zeta Kai]

Alright, you people probably think that we have forgotten or abandoned this project. But nothing could be further from the truth; we member of the Build Team are all working diligently on this as if we were getting paid to do so. To show that progress is being made, I invite you to look at the City of God (http://forum.cartographersguild.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11937&d=1238562260). It is a city on Siraaj that could easily serve as a campaign setting in & of itself. Discuss.

[Thane of Fife]

While I'm sure that it's interesting, I am unwilling to create an account on some forum which I will probably never return to just to see a city. If you could show it somewhere else, that would be very much appreciated.

[afroakuma]

*sigh* He would do that...

I'll ask him to give me the image so I can host it through my Photobucket, since there's nothing secret on my Photobucket.

[Zeta Kai]

Ugh, of course... Anyway, here. Check it out...


The City of God (http://fc47.deviantart.com/fs44/f/2009/091/1/b/The_City_of_God_by_Zeta_Kai.jpg)

[Thane of Fife]

Wow, that looks really... organized. It looks good.

Is number 32 some kind of palace (or temple, I suppose, given the name)?

Any hints on what the scale on the bottom left is measured in? Meters? Yards? Cubits?

I also very much like the compass. :smallbiggrin:

[afroakuma]

Is number 32 some kind of palace (or temple, I suppose, given the name)?

Little bit of column A, little bit of column B.


Any hints on what the scale on the bottom left is measured in? Meters? Yards? Cubits?

Don't know and largely don't care.


I also very much like the compass. :smallbiggrin:

:smallannoyed: Don't even start. Don't even.

[Alteran]

That map is fantastic, Zeta! That's a lot of detail, I can't wait to hear more about the City of God. I found myself assuming the scale was in miles at first, but that can't be right. I'm curious about what it actually is.

I also like the compass, it's a very tasteful choice. :smallwink:

[afroakuma]

I also like the compass, it's a very tasteful choice. :smallwink:

Enough about the compass, already. :smallannoyed:

[Shadow_Elf]

We don't need a repeat of that whole decapitations debacle... that was a PR nightmare to handle. In today's economy, the build team cannot afford to pay people to clean up after afro's overenthusiastic silencing. So please keep all comments related to timepieces using gravity-flow technology and sand to a bare minimum.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Thane of Fife]

I thought I just commented here - server must have eaten it.

That number in the ocean - 30, I think - is it just the ocean, or is something there?

[Alteran]

Enough about the compass, already. :smallannoyed:

I think you're overreacting, Afro. Half of the reason the whole timepiece thing got started in the first place was because of how much attention it received from the build team, especially you. Remember, negative attention is still attention, and people like a spectacle. I mentioned the compass because it reminded me of what went on then, which has (for better or for worse) become an enduring memory of HoZ for many. Seeing as the whole thing had died down, people are going to see that and remember, perhaps mentioning it here. I'm sure a violent backlash will only serve to revive it, which I assume you don't want.

I apologize if my comment actually did bother you, as that was not the intention. I think most of us are over the timepiece incident now, I was just amused that said item managed to make it into the campaign world, if only in a very minor way. In any case I will stop talking about it now, I just felt I should say this.

[afroakuma]

That number in the ocean - 30, I think - is it just the ocean, or is something there?

It's just the ocean.


I think you're overreacting, Afro.

This is new how? *hefts decapitating weapon for emphasis*


Half of the reason the whole timepiece thing got started in the first place was because of how much attention it received from the build team, especially you.

As I've explained countless times, the reason the debacle was set off is because people had formed assumptions on what that setting name would mean, and I didn't want the inevitable to happen. It did anyway, which was a major "I told you so" moment for me, and not a good one, since my being right meant day 1 of the brainstorm was derailed entirely.


Seeing as the whole thing had died down, people are going to see that and remember, perhaps mentioning it here. I'm sure a violent backlash will only serve to revive it, which I assume you don't want.

I'm forced to live with the fact that it's the symbol of our project. The last thing I need is people giving a wink and a nod every time it crops up, because it's going to, it's always been that way and it's not like any of us are being clever or stealthy in sneaking it into anything.


I was just amused that said item managed to make it into the campaign world, if only in a very minor way.

It did not. It's our official symbol because it was voted in, but in the world, the compasses do not look like that.

And no, I don't want to revive it. Which is why, for those of you that want to point it out, I'm telling you to drop it like a hot potato before it escalates.

[Juhn]

Looks good, Zeta, though the lack of a legend to go along with all those numbers is doing nothing to assuage my curiosity.

As for the compass, it's the campaign setting logo. What's the big deal?

[afroakuma]

What in particular are you curious about that a legends would show?

Most of them are just minor places of note... inns, tanneries, marketplaces, gatehouses etc.

[Thane of Fife]

What in particular are you curious about that a legends would show?



minor places of note... inns, tanneries, marketplaces, gatehouses etc.

Methinks you've answered your own question there, good sir. Little things can be far more interesting than the big stuff.

[afroakuma]

Er... fine, there are inns, tanneries, marketplaces and gatehouses. Also bakeries, stables, prisons and even roads!

Now then... how interesting was that revelation?

[Thane of Fife]

The fact that there are numbers for them implies that more than just what they are exists.

Even if it's just "Sand Street bakery; occasionally, the sultan orders pastries from this store."

Stuff like names, owners, and small, potential plot hooks are the sorts of things which people feed upon.

[afroakuma]

The fact that there are numbers for them implies that more than just what they are exists.

Even if it's just "Sand Street bakery; occasionally, the sultan orders pastries from this store."

Currently, less than that exists, specifically only the bolded part at present.


Stuff like names, owners


are the sorts of things which people feed upon.

That's pretty much what I'm afraid of. "Bob? Who's Bob? He owns a bakery on the map, he must be important, tell us about Bob!"

Yes, I have the legend, and I'd release it but for that.

[Thane of Fife]

are the sorts of things which people feed upon.

When I said feed upon, I was thinking more 'enjoy' than 'irritate afroakuma about', but I can see why you'd worry.

Knowing the little details makes a setting feel more alive for some people - if you go over to Candlekeep, for instance, you can find people asking Ed Greenwood if there are, say, any well-known bakeries in Neverwinter.

[afroakuma]

When I said feed upon, I was thinking more 'enjoy' than 'irritate afroakuma about', but I can see why you'd worry.

Seeing as how it's VUACS' national sport... :smallsigh:


Knowing the little details makes a setting feel more alive for some people - if you go over to Candlekeep, for instance, you can find people asking Ed Greenwood if there are, say, any well-known bakeries in Neverwinter.

Very well. I know I'm going to regret this - very, very fast, but here you go.

1. Aged Blade Inn
2. Aqdar’s Stables
3. Broken Sign Inn (“The Laughing Monk”)
4. Caravan Road (Cape Road East, towards Ilud)
5. Center Circle Street
6. City Walls
7. Crescent Moons Inn
8. Divine Assembly Hall
9. Dock Street East (“Warehouse Row”)
10. Dock Street West (“Scaleytown”)
11. Eastern Gate
12. Fazul’s Bakery
13. Healer’s Quarter
14. House of Alzamir Farun
15. House of Jaqaz Izar-Qarul
16. Inner Circle Street
17. Lirad’s Tannery
18. Market Square
19. Merchant’s Guild
20. Minister’s District
21. Numar District (“Ghultown”)
22. Office of the City Guard
23. Outer Circle Street
24. Pahari Enclave
25. Palace Square
26. Pilgrim’s Road (Cape Road West, towards Burdusq)
27. Prison Houses
28. Qadami’s Custom Caravans
29. Qurab’s Metal & Glass Works
30. Shaqad Bay
31. Smoking Lion Inn
32. Sultan’s Palace (Temple of Qirus, Superior)
33. Temple of Limalia
34. Temple of Pashati
35. Temple of Qirus, Common
36. Temple of Sidaru
37. Temple of Zaia
38. Western Gate
39. Zekai’s Map Shop, CGL
40. Zuhahul Hills

[Llama231]

So, are those boats in the water? They look pretty big...

Overall, awesomesauce, wonder where it is on the world map.

I am assuming that it is in the normal plane?

[Thane of Fife]

I love the name "Broken Sign Inn"! :smallbiggrin: And Zekai's Map Shop! There's some good stuff in there.

Would I be correct in the assumption that the area between Palace Square and Market Square is the wealthier district?

I am vaguely curious why you felt a need to mark the city walls on key, though - they seem kind of obvious.

[afroakuma]

So is the bay, but "Zekai" marked it anyway.

[Thane of Fife]

So is the bay, but "Zekai" marked it anyway.

Perhaps he's targeting the "Low Wisdom Score" demographic?

[Magnor Criol]

Great city map there, very spiffily done. Bravo.

18. Market Square - I love the irony inherent in that the market square is not, in fact, square. =p

21. "Ghultown" - is that simply the poor district for town given a derogatory label, or is that area actually known for ghuls? The latter seems unlikely, but I don't know enough, really.

39. I should probably know this - but what's "CGL" stand for?

[Zeta Kai]

Would I be correct in the assumption that the area between Palace Square and Market Square is the wealthier district?

Yes, despite the socialist intentions of the city's planners, there are the rich, & they live close to one another. This is predominately around the palace & between the squares, near the various temples & government buildings.


I am vaguely curious why you felt a need to mark the city walls on key, though - they seem kind of obvious.

I marked the walls on the map so that I may have a place to discuss them. I now have a space to mention their dimensions, material components, & statistics (including their break DC).


So is the bay, but "Zekai" marked it anyway.

I marked the bay for a different reason than I marked the walls. I did it simply so you all would know that it is Shaqad Bay, & not some other bay in the world. This one is an outcropping of the Quis Sea, & gains its famous current due to flow from the Haseeni River, which meets the ocean in this bay.


21. "Ghultown" - is that simply the poor district for town given a derogatory label, or is that area actually known for ghuls? The latter seems unlikely, but I don't know enough, really.

It is indeed a slum (again, despite the hopes of the city's builders), but it named thus because of its many unfortunate & ostracized Half-Ghuls. The epithet "Ghultown" is just catchier, so it stuck. Numar means "half-breed, crossbreed, or hybrid" in Archaic, & is a more apt title in many ways.


39. I should probably know this - but what's "CGL" stand for?

Why, Cartography Guild Licensed, of course?

Can you tell that a lot of thought is going into this world? This is why it's taken months to get this far (59 new monsters don't help, either).

[vegetalss4]

this looks very cool, and very professional.
also i love the reference in Zekai:smallamused:
that's all i needed to say except for bump

[afroakuma]

Where have we been? And what have we been doing?

Working. :smallamused:

59. Number of 3.X monster entries.

123. Number of 3.X feats.

10. Number of 3.X core base classes that are going to see a steep rise in awesome factor.

3. Number of editions being covered.

2. Number of new subgroups of feats in 3.X.

601. Number of individual discussion posts in HQ.

20. Estimated number of deities, demigods, ascended demons and aspects. Not counting Zihaja.

[Zeta Kai]

Good idea to give everyone a status update, Afro. You should also mention that we are working on magic items right now, & that my goal is to have at least 12 new Special Abilities & at least 100 new Specific Items, which will almost certainly include some crazy artifacts. :smallwink:

[afroakuma]

While I'm at it, I should also tell everyone how cool proper noun is, especially when pronoun indicative verb the weapon of adjective and indicative verb all of the nouns that verb in pronoun way.

[Zeta Kai]

While I'm at it, I should also tell everyone how cool proper noun is, especially when pronoun indicative verb the weapon of adjective and indicative verb all of the nouns that verb in pronoun way.

See, now I was just supplementing your news update, & you had to go all metahumor on me.

[afroakuma]

Of course. It's what I do. :smallamused:

Now go send me more magic items, slave.

I almost forgot my favorite statistic:

1. Number of base classes that are going to see their power level get a kick to the head.

[Lappy9000]

Well, I had a much more awesome way of complimenting you guys's good work, but the forum's spasticness pretty much beat it out of me :smallannoyed:

Here's the boring one: Good Job!

[Zeta Kai]

Now go send me more magic items, slave.

Call me that again, whelp, & I'll homebrew you to death. :smallwink:

Also check your inbox. There are several new PM's, because they wouldn't all fit into one. :smallamused:

[Lappy9000]

Of course. It's what I do. :smallamused:

Now go send me more magic items, slave.

I almost forgot my favorite statistic:

1. Number of base classes that are going to see their power level get a kick to the head.

Call me that again, whelp, & I'll homebrew you to death. :smallwink:

Also check your inbox. There are several new PM's, because they wouldn't all fit into one. :smallamused:Well, you two better watch it, friends.....I'm bad at this game.

[Alteran]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, what's with the bolded terms of reference? This is not conducive to a productive homebrew environment!

More importantly, I'm very impressed with the progress I have heard of so far. In my conversations with Shadow it seems like you've all been very busy, and I'm extremely excited to see the results of your hard work. :smallsmile:

[afroakuma]

Call me that again, whelp, & I'll homebrew you to death. :smallwink:

You and what POWER? :smallwink:

[Lappy9000]

You guys wouldn't happen to have a deadline in mind, would you? With all the work you've gotten done, you probably have a good sense of how complete the project is.

[afroakuma]

Remember, we're building for two editions, and our 4E side has only half the staff.

[Lappy9000]

Remember, we're building for two editions, and our 4E side has only half the staff.That's a pansy answer :smallamused:

[Vadin]

3. Number of editions being covered.

3 editions?

Will we be seeing a little bit of AD&D or 2ed content?

[Thane of Fife]

3 editions?

Will we be seeing a little bit of AD&D or 2ed content?

Unfortunately, I'm fairly certain that he means d20r. (Not that there's anything wrong with d20r, I'd just like to see some AD&D stuff)

[Alteran]

No, it will see coverage for Fax Celestis' d20r (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98722) (3.Fax) edition.

Ninja'd.

[afroakuma]

Unfortunately, I'm fairly certain that he means d20r.

That would be correct.


(Not that there's anything wrong with d20r, I'd just like to see some AD&D stuff)

AD&D had Al Qadim already.

[Zeta Kai]

AD&D had Al Qadim already.

I'd like to clarify to everyone that we are taking great pains to make our setting as different as it can be from Al Qadim.

[Juhn]

I believe something like the third post in the very first VUACS thread indicated that older editions would not be receiving support.

As for deadlines, I don't expect we'll ever get one, and I have no problems with this whatsoever. Deadlines for projects of this sidetend to either result in either a) rush jobs, or b) missed deadlines and a disappointed/agitated audience. It'll be finished when it's finished, and it'll be all polished and shiny at that. I've no doubt that we won't be disappointed.

As for Al Qadim, you guys have indicated before that you're consciously avoiding it. As I really don't know much about this setting, I don't really have much of an opinion one way or the other on this. From what little I've read about that setting, though, it has a very strong emphasis on Fate, which was the theme that scored the lowest for the votes, so by definition these two settings aren't going to resemble each other.

I have gotten something of an impression that avoiding another setting (Dark Sun, or something?) may be part of the reason for a complete lack of support for psionics in this setting. On the one hand, I like psionics, so that's mildly disappointing, but on the other hand psionics would probably be pretty incongruous with this setting as it's shaping up from what I can tell, so perhaps it's better that it's being left out.

Well, that's enough from me for now. I have an exam tomorrow, and I should get some sleep before I have to go write that.

[Lappy9000]

As for deadlines, I don't expect we'll ever get one, and I have no problems with this whatsoever. Deadlines for projects of this sidetend to either result in either a) rush jobs, or b) missed deadlines and a disappointed/agitated audience. It'll be finished when it's finished, and it'll be all polished and shiny at that. I've no doubt that we won't be disappointed.Oh, of course, and I wholly agree. I just can't deal with letting the team get too comfortable :smallwink:

Well, that's enough from me for now. I have an exam tomorrow, and I should get some sleep before I have to go write that.Nonsense. Caffeine > Sleep

[afroakuma]

I believe something like the third post in the very first VUACS thread indicated that older editions would not be receiving support.

Yup. That was Thane, too.


As for Al Qadim, you guys have indicated before that you're consciously avoiding it.

Yep, but there are some shared motifs between the two. It's unavoidable.


I have gotten something of an impression that avoiding another setting (Dark Sun, or something?) may be part of the reason for a complete lack of support for psionics in this setting.

That was a major component, yes, as that was a desert setting that used psionics heavily. Moreover, though, we felt it didn't fit with Arabic myth. We made a decision early on regarding what forms of "casting" would be supported in the setting, and psionics was just not seen as a good match.

[Thane of Fife]

Yup. That was Thane, too.

I don't suppose I get points for persistance, hmm?

[Juhn]

we felt it didn't fit with Arabic myth. We made a decision early on regarding what forms of "casting" would be supported in the setting, and psionics was just not seen as a good match.

Yes, I believe I mentioned that in the second half of that paragraph.

[afroakuma]

I don't suppose I get points for persistance, hmm?

*shrug* You can have all the points you want, but it won't get you 2E coverage.

[Thane of Fife]

*shrug* You can have all the points you want, but it won't get you 2E coverage.

Woo! As many points as I want.

But in all seriousness, I am confident that you cannot make anything in 3.x that cannot be relatively easily converted to 2e in a vastly less complicated form, so I'm not really that bothered.

[afroakuma]

All I have to do is make a conventional weapon, no? Or suit of armor, or new base class, or prestige class, or...

You 2E players and your crazy complexity. :smallbiggrin:

[Zocelot]

Hey everybody. I haven't checked up on VUACS for a very long time. Can anyone give me a short summary of everything that has happened in the last couple of months?

[afroakuma]

I suppose this belongs here:

Barbarians can now pull off a stunt that was previously restricted to certain wizards. They're also capable of pushing their rage to new and scary limits, and getting into combat ahead of everyone.

Bards can use Perform for new and amusing effects, and are more tricksy and sly than ever. A magic-wielding bard can make an entire city hate you and everything you stand for.

Clerics access exclusive domains through their deities, and can tap into some really awesome spells. A cleric can also train in the rites and rituals of her deity for greater power, and recall divine spells.

Druids have access to a powerful prestige class, are socially valued and are the favored class of a PC race. A capable druid can call forth incarnations of the natural world and trap unnatural spirits in the land.

Fighters can learn martial training practices, evasion tactics and dueling skills. They can learn different combat forms that grant them new and devastating tactics in combat.

Monks now kick all kinds of everything. Whether serving the divine (and getting bonuses), serving the serene (and getting bonuses) or serving up your butt on a platter (by hitting you repeatedly, very fast, until you die), monks cleaned up big. A powerful monk can elude mighty spells and show no signs of weakness at a shadow's touch.

Paladins learn to dedicate themselves to their faith and are rewarded for said dedication. At later levels, they can gain additional spellcasting ability and deity-specific powers.

Rangers see both combat styles improve, and acquire superior casting that allows both they and their animal companions to really contribute to combat.

Rogues are more elusive than ever, and can get back at anyone who dares strike them in combat. They can also jump to the top of the initiative heap and pick off both mirror images and invisible foes with greater ease.

Sorcerers are a common favored class, and see some exclusive spells derived from racial lineages. They can also adopt new and exciting powers by sticking with their pure class levels.

Wizards catch a baseball bat to the head. And several snowballs. They also lose a lot of favorite spells, and it's very very sad. Sorry wizard players, but Zeta and I are out to trash your class. And have succeeded.

[Juhn]

Well, Barbarian looks nice. Hearing that stuff while considering the concept I posted way back fills me with a strange kind of glee.

Bard might be a useful class for would-be Pharaohs, it seems.

Druids, well, we already know which race has them as a favoured class. :smallwink:

I don't know how to feel about Rangers and boosted spellcasting, but then I've been one who's never understood why they're a spellcasting class to begin with. I've never used spellcasting when I've played a Ranger, as that doesn't really jive with the concept of "lightly-armored two-handed/ranged fighter" that my Rangers generally follow. It's just strange to me to see them suddenly start casting magic. But then, core Rangers have spellcasting regardless of whether or not I use it, so it does make sense that they keep it (and get a boost to it) regardless of whether or not I'll ever use it.

Would a non-spellcasting Ranger variant be too much to hope for, or should I just go with Scout when I want to play one?

Sorcerors are a common favoured class. Well, considering the number of people with genie blood in this setting, that's unsurprising.

Wizards, hmm. Wizards got heavily nerfed apparently. While their being the most common entry class for Djinn Lord makes sense, I do have a question: if Wizards have been weakened so much, why would one risk one's life to find the forbidden tomes and then risk social ostracism/angry mobs and become a Wizard? Just because they didn't get lucky enough to have a bloodline that allowed them to become a Sorceror?

[afroakuma]

Well, Barbarian looks nice. Hearing that stuff while considering the concept I posted way back fills me with a strange kind of glee.

It should. Our barbarians can do terrible, terrible things. Fast.


Bard might be a useful class for would-be Pharaohs, it seems.

Always.


Druids, well, we already know which race has them as a favoured class. :smallwink:

T'was a given, yes.


I don't know how to feel about Rangers and boosted spellcasting, but then I've been one who's never understood why they're a spellcasting class to begin with.

Because they're naturedins.

Also because in the early editions they were hard to get into, so they had to have spells.


It's just strange to me to see them suddenly start casting magic.

Well, no stranger than an assassin doing so. Many of a ranger's spells are simple and survival-oriented, so you could chalk them up to directed happenstance or what have you.


But then, core Rangers have spellcasting regardless of whether or not I use it, so it does make sense that they keep it (and get a boost to it) regardless of whether or not I'll ever use it.


Well, the boost is optional, but the new spells are geared to enrich the ranger experience. And they get some exclusives that even druids don't have, things that directly tie into their class features and give them a distinct casting role if desired.


Sorcerors are a common favoured class. Well, considering the number of people with genie blood in this setting, that's unsurprising.

Also ghul blood and other fun blood. Mmm, blood. Hemoculus


Wizards, hmm. Wizards got heavily nerfed apparently.

Avec un vengeance.


While their being the most common entry class for Djinn Lord makes sense, I do have a question: if Wizards have been weakened so much, why would one risk one's life to find the forbidden tomes and then risk social ostracism/angry mobs and become a Wizard?

Have you ever seen the base class tier list? No matter what happens, wizards will always be near the top of that list, and they'll still have mad power. They're just not untouchable, which I think you'll agree is fitting for this setting.

[Juhn]

It should. Our barbarians can do terrible, terrible things. Fast.

And I may have myself one very scary and against-type Lizardman.


Well, no stranger than an assassin doing so.

Assassins have spells? That baffles me. I also apparently need to read through my DMG again.


Hemoculus

There's special blood in this setting?


Have you ever seen the base class tier list? No matter what happens, wizards will always be near the top of that list, and they'll still have mad power. They're just not untouchable, which I think you'll agree is fitting for this setting.

I'll confess that I haven't, though I'd been under the impression that they weren't too far above Sorcerors, and they were about on the same level as Clerics and Druids. Neither of those last two classes received a nerf, to my knowledge.

And I do agree that Wizards shouldn't be untouchable, especially in this setting. Messing with Things You Were Not Meant To Know, not to mention the possibility of trying to enslave powerful magical beings (hooray Djinn Lord!) should be incredibly dangerous if you're not equally careful. IIRC, things have a nasty tendency to turn against unprepared wizards. Like angry genies you're attempting to bind.

[afroakuma]

Assassins have spells? That baffles me. I also apparently need to read through my DMG again.

Evidently. Oh, by the way, assassins are cool now.


There's special blood in this setting?

Let's just say ghuls are awesomely scary and leave it at that. There is killer blood in this setting.


I'll confess that I haven't, though I'd been under the impression that they weren't too far above Sorcerors, and they were about on the same level as Clerics and Druids. Neither of those last two classes received a nerf, to my knowledge.

Technically, when you consult the list of banned spells you'll find they all did. In the case of druids, they just didn't get a buff. But with wizards, it was more things like clones, astral projections, gated armies and of course genesis that made them nearly unstoppable.

[Juhn]

Genesis? Was that the spell that creates a private demiplane? I always thought that spell was cool, but I'm not sure how it would be applied for cheesy purposes (and, as I never plan to do so, I don't particularly need to hear the specifics either).

I do have to wonder, though. Do the people who abuse these rules so flagrantly actually exist? I would think cheese and game-breaking would make the game boring, and thus there'd be no reason to do it.

On a sidenote, I originally wrote "flagrantly" as "fragrantly". Hehe.

[afroakuma]

I do have to wonder, though. Do the people who abuse these rules so flagrantly actually exist? I would think cheese and game-breaking would make the game boring, and thus there'd be no reason to do it.

Sure, but wizard optimization still follows certain guidelines, some of which become inaccessible in HoZ.

Basically, people are going to optimize, and if they want to, then we've provided the tools to do so to more base classes, in more ways. For example, Cleave is actually useful, Dodge is now more valuable as a prerequisite, an assassin's death attack is actually viable etc.

We've varied the game a bit, and I think people will enjoy what we've done. I really want to see paladin players' reactions to what we've given them.

[Juhn]

That all sounds good to me.

[Thane of Fife]

We've varied the game a bit, and I think people will enjoy what we've done. I really want to see paladin players' reactions to what we've given them.

Hmm, I DM more often than I play, but I must say that, as someone who dislikes the "Paladin = Holy Warrior" idea, I'm not particularly intrigued.

As for the barbarians, though, a Celerity sort of effect, perhaps?

[afroakuma]

Hmm, I DM more often than I play, but I must say that, as someone who dislikes the "Paladin = Holy Warrior" idea, I'm not particularly intrigued.

Oh? What would you prefer paladins to be?

I notice that we've managed to cater to a significant portion of audience hopes and concerns thus far, so I do enjoy the input.

[Thane of Fife]

Oh? What would you prefer paladins to be?

I notice that we've managed to cater to a significant portion of audience hopes and concerns thus far, so I do enjoy the input.

Hmm, I'd put him much closer to a secular paragon of virtue. Clerics are champions of the gods.

Perhaps an artist comparison:

Clerics are commissioned by the gods: "Do this for me"
Paladins might have the gods as patrons: "I agree with this thing you're doing, so I'm going to help you do it"
But the paladin could just as easily not have a patron, and be doing it all through the raw force of good, or some other good cause.
As such, I think that separating paladins by their gods essentially turns them into pale imitations of clerics.

[afroakuma]

*shrug* I never said you had to do it. Simply that it was an option. Probably one of the better ones.

In this setting, though, the flavor of paladins is really strongly tied to the holy warrior iconography, since the mythos we're tapping into doesn't contain European ideals of chivalry and virtue.

Besides, there is no "raw force of good" in Kamala. Nor is there a "raw force of evil." There is only Zihaja. And Akasha, Sunya, Nathar...

[Zeta Kai]

Before we here from any Wizard apologists, please understand that this so-called nerfing is not done with capricious spite or anti-Wizard hatred. It comes from two aspects of the original voting. As can be seen here, two polls in the original vote had consequences for spellcasters in general:

1) Primary Antagonists: Use of Magic Magic feared & distrusted throughout most of our setting. We have provided a number of good reasons for this, but regardless, the consequence is inevitable. Spellcasters are feared & distrusted for their reliance on magic, & this arguably hurts Wizards most of all. They tend to operate best in settings that support their research into the arcane arts. But on Siraaj (& to a lesser extent, Najmah as well), they will face disproportionate opposition if they reveal themselves as seekers of forbidden knowledge.

2) Cosmology: Yin/Yang Planes Another thing that guarantees spellcaster dominance at higher levels is the use of planar manipulation. Spells like astral projection, ethereal jaunt, gate, planar ally, & summon X tap into the forces of the multiverse to curb stop everything in sight. Well, our setting is a little different. We don't have most of the planes that make these spells possible. You can't jaunt through a non-existent plane, & you can't summon friends from one either. This also (arguably) hurts Wizards more than other casters, as they are generally thought to be best able to take advantage of these spells.

So yeah, it's not so much an issue of "we hate Wizards" (although we sometimes delight in their comeuppance). The two factors above, combined with some anti-caster martial feats that we've added, will level the playing field a bit, which is not something those at the top of the class-tier-food-chain will benefit from. Don't get us wrong; we don't expect Wizards will get utterly pwned at higher levels. They'll just have to be more careful & less haughty, lest they be lynched by mortals, ghuls, genies, or worse.

[afroakuma]

Before we hear from any Wizard apologists, please understand that this so-called nerfing is absolutely done with capricious spite and anti-Wizard hatred.

So yeah, it's completely an issue of "we hate Wizards" (although we always delight in their comeuppance). Don't get us wrong; we expect Wizards will get utterly pwned at higher levels.
...............

I accidentally the wizards. Is this bad?


You accidentally what?


The wizards


:smallsigh:

[Zeta Kai]

LOL
:biggrin:

[Alteran]

LOL
:biggrin:

i think afroakuma are pretty cool guy, eh homebrew stuff and doesn't afraid of anything.



Hemoculus


Is that anything like a Hemonculus?
I don't actually know what a Hemonculus is, other than some sort of Homunculus variant that does not exist in 4e.

[Juhn]

Hemo means blood.

A homunculus made of blood? Badass.

[afroakuma]

Hemo means blood.

A homunculus made of blood? Badass.

? I don't think you got it. There was no -unculus involved.

[Alteran]

That still doesn't conclusively tell us whether there is an -onculus involved, or if it is in some manner related to homunculi.

If it's not any kind of construct, could you tell us what it is? Or is this another thing that won't be further revealed until everything is released?

[afroakuma]

It's Latiny enough that you should be able to guess it on your own.

[Juhn]

According to wiki, culus means anus. And I'm pretty sure hemo means blood.

If this is an any way a reference to that Rejected Cartoons thing I will hurt you severely. Through the Internet. Somehow.

[afroakuma]

*sigh*

Try hemo + oculus

[Shadow_Elf]

Hey! I have some news on the 4e homebrew front, too!

As of right now:

There are 40 completed feats and counting
There are 16 completed monsters and counting
All of the Voted Up Adv Classes are done
All of the Voted Up base races are done
A number of monstrous races are also done

And to mirror the new benefits and such represented by afro and Zeta's class power-ups, I've got some treats in the works for anyone who's an Arcane or Divine spellcaster. If you've ever played 4e and missed the lack of divine domains and arcane metamagic, you may be in for a surprise...

In addition, some coverage in the form of prerequisites for Adv Classes and feats is being offered for fans of PH2 classes, including classic 3.5e favourites like the Druid, Bard, Sorcerer and Barbarian, among others.

[Lappy9000]

Ooh, shiny! Nice work Shadow_Elf!

[Juhn]

*sigh*

Try hemo + oculus

Ah. That's much better.

[puppyavenger]

*shrug* if they are native to the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt or western India, then yes. I really don't feel like going for a search at the moment.


I'm assuming this also includes Persia?






Shah's?
Look it up.

underwater Persian Emperors? Awesome!

which leads me to a new line of questioning

How populated are the oceans?

which oceans/seas'/lakes have the highest population?

how common are fearsome sea monsters?

how powerful, on average, are the ship-wrecking sailor-fear-creating sea monsters?

Are there civilizations/sapient beings living underwater?

what are the three most common?

what are the three most powerful creatures underwater (by individual creature power(besides Dan))

what are the 5 most powerful political units underwater(i.e. kingdoms, mariad cities, aforementioned Persian Emperors)?

how knowledgeable are coastal societies (non average) about the underwater wold?

inland states?

dessert nomads?

how much do the underwater states know about the aboverwater world? (for each of the 5 most powerful states, so you can't just say "it depends")

answers of proper sentence length or greater would be greatly appreciated.

[afroakuma]

I'm assuming this also includes Persia?

Yep.


How populated are the oceans?

Not very.


which oceans/seas'/lakes have the highest population?

The biggest one, naturally.


how common are fearsome sea monsters?

Very rare; mainly because you won't be that far out to sea.


how powerful, on average, are the ship-wrecking sailor-fear-creating sea monsters?

CR 11, if I'm not mistaken. If I ain't mistaken, that's a kraken!


Are there civilizations/sapient beings living underwater?

Yes.


what are the three most common?

Marids, pahari and ...more of same.


what are the three most powerful creatures underwater (by individual creature power(besides Dan))

This line of questioning stops here and now. This is not an underwater campaign setting. There are only two creatures done up for aquatic adventures, one of which is Dan, the other of which is the pahari. That's it.


answers of proper sentence length or greater would be greatly appreciated.

Since when do I ever offer those? :smallwink:

[puppyavenger]

This line of questioning stops here and now. This is not an underwater campaign setting. There are only two creatures done up for aquatic adventures, one of which is Dan, the other of which is the pahari. That's it.


so, just a guess, Shah is the title for a mariad ruler?

umm, what's the CR for a mariad again?, I seem to have the idea their the most power genies stuck in my head (probably from Rise of Legends) but never actually seen stats for them.

[Alteran]

I also seem to remember somebody mentioning that Marids are the most powerful genies. Seeing as an Efreet is CR 8 (according to the SRD), I would guesstimate that Marids are somewhere around 10. However, the power levels of genies overall could be very different in HoZ. Either 3.X genies need a power boost or 4e genies need a power drop, since it seems that 3.X efreets are quite weak while 4e Efreets (the only published genies so far) are very high level. They are levels 22-28, which I believe is equivalent to CR 15-19.

Conclusion: I also think Marids are the most powerful, and somewhere realized that genies need a power change in one edition or both.

[Sereg]

Besides, there is no "raw force of good" in Kamala. Nor is there a "raw force of evil." There is only Zihaja. And Akasha, Sunya, Nathar...

If these are more aspects I wouldn't expect them to be listed sepparately from Zihaja. So, what are they?

[afroakuma]

If these are more aspects I wouldn't expect them to be listed sepparately from Zihaja. So, what are they?

Well, the vote was for the primary religion only, all of which are generally monotheistic. There are minor religions that operate differently than the Aspects.

Akasha and Sunya are a dualistic religion of two demigods at war with one another.

Martuakh and Nathar are demon cults.

Hagalvethr is a racial deity.

Zaia and the Darshan are agents of Zihaja.

[Thane of Fife]

Well, the vote was for the primary religion only, all of which are generally monotheistic. There are minor religions that operate differently than the Aspects.

Akasha and Sunya are a dualistic religion of two demigods at war with one another.

Martuakh and Nathar are demon cults.

Hagalvethr is a racial deity.

Zaia and the Darshan are agents of Zihaja.

Any hints on which race Hagalvethr belongs to?

And is there any sort of relation between (Akasha and Sunya) and Zihaja?

[afroakuma]

Any hints on which race Hagalvethr belongs to?

He belongs to no PC race.


And is there any sort of relation between (Akasha and Sunya) and Zihaja?

They are independent entities. Adoptive grandchildren?

[Lappy9000]

Just had a thought; are you guys going to make a pre-made low-level adventure to help people assimilate characters into the world? Like Eberron had with the Forgotten Forge.

[afroakuma]

Well, seeing as how I'll be running two intro games, I think they will technically qualify.

But I am in fact here to announce better news (at least to the 3.Xers)

We have redrawn the poison rules! Poison is now scary again!

[LordZarth]

We have redrawn the poison rules! Poison is now scary again!

Poison! Ahh! Scary! I've always wondered... are deities immune to poison...?

EDIT: And about those intro games, Afroakuma, don't forget I was the first to call dibs on a spot... I have to keep reminding you, in case you forget. That would be bad, because I want in. Bad. ly.

[afroakuma]

You know, Zarth, what I put in spoiler tags I usually prefer not to have quoted in the very next post. :smallannoyed:

And dibs are irrelevant; character and participation are.

[Mercenary Pen]

All very cool. I apologise for my absence from this project (or at least "throwing stones from afar" duty with regards to HoZ to quote Pratchett's analogy), but I've been busy with a whole host of things.

Will still be checking up on stuff every now and then.

[Juhn]

And dibs are irrelevant; character and participation are.

Well, I got the first character concept up, if that counts for anything.

[afroakuma]

Latest news: spells are being developed, and magic items are nearly done.

I flexed the POWER extra hard to blow Zeta's mind with a single spell. It worked.

Oh, and by the way,

there are now two new kinds of spell component.

[afroakuma]

You people and your lack of interest in the coolness.

Fine. Allow me to tease something awesome for 3.X:

The Paladin

Paladins get a shot in the arm in terms of awesome, diverging away from being Cleric Lite with better stats.

As long as you're behaving yourself, why not take a feat that rewards you for behaving yourself? Paladins rack up three. Clerics can take none of them. Ever. Others can.

Want to be a beatstick? Go right ahead; take some fun melee feats to improve your fighting style, then back it up by shrugging off everything your enemies throw at you. Paladins don't care about silly things like light wounds. Or moderate wounds. Or even serious wounds. Shrug it all off!

Wish you had cool casting, like a cleric? You do! Wreath yourself in holy radiance, or seek instant clarity. If you don't have enough spell slots or caster levels to concern yourself with divine magic, just add more!

What's that? A wizard? No worries; ability damage is irrelevant to you - you're a paladin! Paralysis? Yawn. Is he gearing up for something high-level? He's not gonna like what you do next.

Delivering lawful goodness has never been more flexible! Do you have a mace of disruption? Want to destroy three undead in a single stroke? How about twelve, from up to sixty feet away?

Is your foe evil? A stroke of judgment will bring him to his knees - add your smite for extra crunchy goodness!

Stand up on behalf of your allies, and save them from pain and suffering - while multitasking! Can't be at their side? No trouble, just save them from afar!

Lastly, paladins get to enjoy exclusive new spells that actually give serious value to their meager spell slots. Including one particular gem reviewed as such:


Wow, this is an awesome temporary buff. Arguably the most potent temporary buff in the game, short of polymorphs. I can't say that this unbalanced, though. I really like it.

Be a paladin to deck your enemies with sacred attacks, wreath yourself in awesome personal buffs, enjoy exclusive bonuses, defend your allies and smile at everything your foes try to hit you with. You are the living, breathing might of your god - act like it!

[Lord_Gareth]

But - and this is important - can paladins tell why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

On another note - gunpowder. Yes? No? Maybe? With the prevalence of alchemists in this setting, its invention and exploitation seem inevitable...

[Lord_Gareth]

there are now two new kinds of spell component.

*Ahem*

The reason no one cares is because VANCIAN MAGIC IS GODDAMN RETARDED.

That is all.

[Lappy9000]

*Ahem*

The reason everyone cares is because VANCIAN MAGIC IS AMAZING AND SUPER AWESOME.

That is all.Fixed it for you :smallbiggrin:

The reason for my assumed lack of interest was due to me not even noticing that you updated this dang place.

Also, I feel that if I bring any questions up, it will have been something asked 4 pages ago, 'cause I don't follow this as much as I probably should. Plus, my comments on how cool it is are becoming redundant.

[Lord_Gareth]

Look, balance-wise, strictly-mechanics-wise, Vancian Magic works just fine. Fluff-wise, it's not only stupid but nonsensical. I have lost any tolerance I once had for it - hence my recent revival of the Paradigm Project.

[Lappy9000]

Look, balance-wise, strictly-mechanics-wise, Vancian Magic works just fine. Fluff-wise, it's not only stupid but nonsensical. I have lost any tolerance I once had for it - hence my recent revival of the Paradigm Project.To each his own :smallcool:

[afroakuma]

Spell components have nothing to do with Vancian magic.

Now stop harping on the spell system and enjoy the paladin!

[Lappy9000]

Spell components have nothing to do with Vancian magic.

Now stop harping on the spell system and enjoy the paladin!I was waiting until I would no longer double-post to dish out the paladin praise.

You should become a salesman, Afro. That's an amazing pitch for anyone who wants (or even doesn't want) to play a paladin.

Holy radiance, mace of disruption, stroke of jugdement?!? My inner paladin fanboy is squealing with holy glee.

[afroakuma]

Admittedly, mace of disruption is just a mace with the disruption ability.

But yeah, I think the pitch for virtually every class will be pretty cool.

Exception: wizard. :smallamused:

Some other awesome spell names to stoke your interest:

armaments of the crusader
fangs of the false caress
firesinger
lesser herald
Nathar's nightmarish nemesis
relic bind
saving grace
unquenchable fire of the sun
wall of water

[Lord_Gareth]

So...paladins now have "righteous, ovebearing prick" as a class feature, or is that just the names? Personally, I've always played a more laid-back kind of paladin, a good-by-example sort of person. The way they figure it, shoving good in someone's face isn't going to convert them. Now, casually mentioning that a leading a good life may or may not include lots of wine, women, and song, that can go a loooong way...

In all seriousness, I'm only somewhat excited. I sold my soul to Onewinged4ngel's rebalanced paladin years ago. Yours is going to need some SERIOUS mojo to compete.

[Lappy9000]

So...paladins now have "righteous, ovebearing prick" as a class feature, or is that just the names? Personally, I've always played a more laid-back kind of paladin, a good-by-example sort of person. The way they figure it, shoving good in someone's face isn't going to convert them. Now, casually mentioning that a leading a good life may or may not include lots of wine, women, and song, that can go a loooong way...

In all seriousness, I'm only somewhat excited. I sold my soul to Onewinged4ngel's rebalanced paladin years ago. Yours is going to need some SERIOUS mojo to compete.:smallsigh:

Righteous Defender of Good =/= Stuck-Up Prick.

Why does everyone always make that assumption? Onewinged4ngel's paladin does nothing to 'fix' this nonexistant problem anyway.


Admittedly, mace of disruption is just a mace with the disruption ability.I'm easily swayed by cool words. Sue me. Thus is my reaction for the following:

armaments of the crusader
fangs of the false caress
firesinger
lesser herald
Nathar's nightmarish nemesis
relic bind
saving grace
unquenchable fire of the sun
wall of water *passes out*

[Alteran]

But yeah, I think the pitch for virtually every class will be pretty cool.

Exception: wizard. :smallamused:


But Afro, surely the nerf to the wizard was out of a love of balance, and not a perverse hatred of the wizard! Right? :smallwink:

Anyhow, paladin! Very very cool. I don't play 3.5, as you know, but I'm currently playing a paladin in our 4e campaign and I thoroughly approve any increased awesome you may have given them. I don't know how good they were in previous editions, but you make it sound like they were a bit boring (melee cleric-like warriors with too few spell slots and MAD), which must change if it is true. I guess what I'm saying is just...good job, overall, for everything that I've seen/heard about so far. It's what I usually say, after all.


Edit:



Righteous Defender of Good =/= Stuck-Up Prick.


Yes, thank you. I started my paladin off a bit too stiffly (keep in mind, my first character ever), but I've been trying to ease him out of that slowly. Paladins come in more varieties than "stick up their ass", after all.

[Lord_Gareth]

:smallsigh:

Righteous Defender of Good =/= Stuck-Up Prick.

Why does everyone always make that assumption? Onewinged4ngel's paladin does nothing to 'fix' this nonexistant problem anyway.

I was thinking more along the lines of, y'know, the "judgement" theme of some of those features, and the general tone of the post, really. Plus, y'know, gods tend to be pricks, and if the paladin is more or less an avatar thereof...

(This is why I prefer Code paladins - that is to say, fluff-standard paladins - where gods are a neat extra, but far from necessary)

[afroakuma]

We are not changing the class itself, only offering it easily-accessible feats and a new cadre of spells to allow it some variance.

If you want a laid-back paladin, you're more than welcome. There are feats to make you a canny fighter without asking for your god's blessing. Take dismiss spells to cover your needs on the battlefield. If you want to be carefree and positive, be a paladin of Adimas. If you want to be a straight-laced, authoritarian snob, be a paladin of Johoum. Casual womanizer? Paladin of Akasha.

If you'd rather be a paladin who gut-punches the bad guys to get them out of his way, there's a feat for that. If you're a devout ascetic, there's something here for you. Determinator? Go right ahead. Clever planner? Sure thing.

I assure you, Lord_Gareth, that based on your track record in VUAV, it will be impossible to please you. Certainly not with the paladin adjustments. Perhaps something else will catch your eye.

I should point out that both Adimas and Johoum are legitimate picks for a paladin's deity, despite the former being chaotic good and the latter being lawful evil. So there's a lot of room for variety.

[Lord_Gareth]

Bah, it's not impossible to please me :p After all, as long as you don't write the FR rule ("ALL DIVINE CASTERS NEEDS GODS! NO EXCEPTIONS! WE WILL KILL YOUR FAMILY IF YOU RUN YOUR GAME WITHOUT THIS RULE!) into your setting, I can make whatever kind of paladin I like ^_^

Though I am rather curious about the whole "smite multiple undead at the same time" idea. Why are paladins anathema to undead? Are you even keeping the undead = auto-evil assumption?

[afroakuma]

Bah, it's not impossible to please me :p

Lies.


After all, as long as you don't write the FR rule ("ALL DIVINE CASTERS NEEDS GODS! NO EXCEPTIONS! WE WILL KILL YOUR FAMILY IF YOU RUN YOUR GAME WITHOUT THIS RULE!) into your setting, I can make whatever kind of paladin I like ^_^

Well, all clerics do. Paladins have it a bit more loosely; there are certain feats that you need a god for, though.


Though I am rather curious about the whole "smite multiple undead at the same time" idea. Why are paladins anathema to undead? Are you even keeping the undead = auto-evil assumption?

Well, the mace of disruption was anathema to undead. Paladins now just get a spell that lets them really take advantage of it. Heck, if you can give the DM a good enough reason, you could savage twelve living creatures in a single swoop. I can't think of a lawful good justification for that, but one might exist.

And no, all undead are not evil. I was thinking of skeletons and zombies here, not mummies.

[Lord_Gareth]

Aaah. Might such a spell also improve the effectiveness of, say, bane weapons?

Are you defining a paladin's code of conduct more? Some DMs make you fall for attacking from ambush; others are rather more...lenient.

[afroakuma]

Aaah. Might such a spell also improve the effectiveness of, say, bane weapons?

Yep. All that and more. It's an awesome spell.


Are you defining a paladin's code of conduct more? Some DMs make you fall for attacking from ambush; others are rather more...lenient.

There will be various suggestions (many particular to various deities), and one important alteration.

[shaddy_24]

Hmm. I'm absolutally fascinated by this, I must admit. It's making me want to run an Expedition to Castle Ravenloft even more. I can't wait to see some of the crunch on this. It'll be a little while before I can start the game; I'm gonna have to redo half the stuff in it.

I can't wait.

[Thane of Fife]

All of that paladin stuff looks excellent to me. Holy Radiance in particular sounds absolutely exquisite.

On another note, whatever Unquenchable Fire of the Sun does, and it doesn't seem too hard to figure out, it sounds very promising.

[afroakuma]

There are some good reasons not to drop evocation, now.

Before I proceed with the next class tear, I want to drop this one:

Morons

Though Siraaj and Najmah are worlds of living myth, where legends walk and old wives' tales are fact, there still do exist superstitions that have no basis in either reality or common sense.

In the city of Naranj, for example, nothing scares the farmers more than seeing grapefruit grow on the trees. Superstition holds that grapefruit are oranges that have been bitten by honey spiders, explaining their discoloration, swollen appearance and terrible bitterness.

Among the devas, the concept of a boat is unheard of. Boats fascinate devas the way devas fascinate mortals.

[Zeta Kai]

But Afro, surely the nerf to the wizard was out of a love of balance, and not a perverse hatred of the wizard! Right? :smallwink:

Firstly, Afro does indeed have a perverse hatred of the wizard. It's kinda scary. I'm not quite as zealous about them, but I am zealous for class balance, which makes me want to nerf the Tier 1 classes (Wizards & CoDzillas) while beefing the lower tiers (ideally, I'd love to play a 3E game where every class was Tier 3-4).

Also, I think some clarification is in order. Most people seem to get this, but I just want to be crystal clear: we are NOT changing the basic functions of ANY class. All classes in our setting are straight from the SRD/4E books. This isn't a full conversion, or some other form of radical 3E/4E rewrite. Our projects seeks to fix certain perceived flaws with the gameplay through the addition of material. We are adding tons of feats to make weak classes potentially stronger. We are adding tons of spells to make weak classes potentially stronger. We are even adding tons of magic items to make weak classes potentially stronger. If every player were to ignore our feats/spells/items, they would play the same as they would in any other setting.

All of these feats/spells/items are also designed to fit into our settings Arabianesque mythology & culture, with gameplay balance as a wonderful bonus. Wizards, Clerics, & Druids are not having options taken away*; we're just not ADDING to their already-proven dominance. Those classes will find less feats/spells/items that boost their abilities or grant them additional options. Most (but not all) of our supplemental material will be simply inapplicable to them.

* = It should be noted that certain elements of the setting (namely the existence of only two planes & the slightly lower magic level) do inevitably reduce some high-level tricks, such as gate-cheese, ethereal/astral travel, shadow conjurations, planar allies, etc.

[afroakuma]

Firstly, Afro does indeed have a perverse hatred of the wizard. It's kinda scary.

No, no, no. Nothing of the sort. (http://www.entertonement.com/clips/73417/Given-a-name-to-my-pain)


All of these feats/spells/items are also designed to fit into our settings Arabianesque mythology & culture, with gameplay balance as a wonderful bonus.

Mmm... bonus.


Wizards, Clerics, & Druids are not having options taken away*

Let me emphasize that little footnote there. I can think of a couple of things that will be taken away. Oh yes.

[Lappy9000]

That's a rather large footnote, actually.