Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread [Archive] - Page 3

Warpwolf16

2012-09-21, 12:54 AM

Here's a rundown for the Alchemical Hunter!

Fluff
Should be "An Alchemist" and not "A Alchemist".
Should be "takes it" and not "take it".
Should be "favored terrain" and not "favor terrain".

That's it for the grammar bit.

First thing I want to ask is, why is this class meant for entry by straight alchemist and then give some aspects of the ranger class? Why not just make it a class that assumes a Alchemist 3/Ranger 3 entry and then progresses/combines features from both sides?
Second thing I'll say is...dead levels. Dead levels are a bad thing when the class isn't granting something amazing to make up for it (like the Eldritch Knight or Mystic Theurge do). You need to add more meat to the bones of this class.
Third, Lord of the Hunt is kind of lame as a capstone ability, no offense.

Ok, now I'm done.

Grammar shall be fixed!

1.First you have a point, I was thinking starting as alchemist but if I go for the dual progression it might be better. Though I'll need to make some new goodies to put in place of the empty gaps as well as the other errors.

2.Dead levels! So true! I forgot that I'd have gaps and thought maybe toss bombs in to fill them. I'll try to think of something to fill the voids

3. I agree, I couldnt think of a good capstone. I thought maybe add the Grand Discovery there as well or another option.

Well look at it now, how does it look?

Warpwolf16

2012-09-21, 12:57 AM

You missed a good decade my friend. I grew up on the animated series for Spider-man, X-men, The Hulk, Fantastic Four, Silver Surfer (never saw that one though), Batman, Superman, Wild Cats, and the Tick.

And Reboot. Man did I love Reboot.

Indeed, Reboot was like Tron for kids and with a legit plot line.

It was the era of Super Heroes! Also Silver Surfer was my original idea or a Herald of Galactus prestige class for my entry. I was a big Silver Surfer fan.

TheWombatOfDoom

2012-09-21, 06:36 AM

Indeed, Reboot was like Tron for kids and with a legit plot line.

It was the era of Super Heroes! Also Silver Surfer was my original idea or a Herald of Galactus prestige class for my entry. I was a big Silver Surfer fan.

Reboot was the BEST. There was also Transformers: beastwars, which I really liked.

Deviston

2012-09-21, 09:26 AM

For some reason, every time a see a large amount of the color purple I always think "Warning, Incoming Game".

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-21, 10:07 PM

Well, Roland laid the Conservative Hammer down again. Please remove your photos from your entries as per the latest announcement.

Warpwolf16

2012-09-21, 10:40 PM

Well, Roland laid the Conservative Hammer down again. Please remove your photos from your entries as per the latest announcement.

done and done Troll Brau.

Midwoka

2012-09-22, 08:16 AM

Please remove your photos from your entries as per the latest announcement.

I went the other route and asked the artist of the Olympian picture for permission =) The post has been updated with the results, along with a link to his DeviantArt account.

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-22, 11:47 PM

I went the other route and asked the artist of the Olympian picture for permission =) The post has been updated with the results, along with a link to his DeviantArt account.

Oh, I meant that more for Wolf and Milo because they were using actual comic panels lifted from actual comic books or teaser art.

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-23, 03:50 PM

Well, it's that time of the month again folks! The last week is here and that means time for the sneak peak at next month's theme!

Fear Itself

Warpwolf16

2012-09-23, 05:15 PM

Well, it's that time of the month again folks! The last week is here and that means time for the sneak peak at next month's theme!

Fear Itself

This will be a interesting run then, Fear Itself is such a vague thing. It could mean phobias, horror that provokes the primordial fear all of mankind has hidden deep within their subconscious.

Why do I have the urge to go lovecraftian on this one? lol The greatest fear man will ever know is that of the unknown.

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-24, 06:05 PM

This will be a interesting run then, Fear Itself is such a vague thing. It could mean phobias, horror that provokes the primordial fear all of mankind has hidden deep within their subconscious.

Why do I have the urge to go lovecraftian on this one? lol The greatest fear man will ever know is that of the unknown.

You'll just have to wait and see. :smallamused:

Warpwolf16

2012-09-24, 08:29 PM

I just remembered its the name of a big arc in Marvel Comics as well lol

Milo v3

2012-09-24, 10:06 PM

My Swift Kinetic is finished. Also if you are a 20 Sanguine Sovereign/Swift Kinetic Gesalt you can run at the speed of light/683.03545585447652376786235053952.

Which is ridiculously fast.

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-25, 11:45 AM

My Swift Kinetic is finished. Also if you are a 20 Sanguine Sovereign/Swift Kinetic Gesalt you can run at the speed of light/683.03545585447652376786235053952.

Which is ridiculously fast.

What. o.0

Moving on though; I'll try to get rundowns this week if I can, but I'm working on college work today and...well....Mists of Pandaria launches today. >.>

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-28, 10:33 AM

Sorry guys, the real world has been barging in as of late. I'm not sure when or if I'll get a chance to do any further rundowns or when I'll have a chance to do much.

Just letting you all know.

ErrantX

2012-09-28, 11:39 AM

Almost done with my class, lots of work hours lately, but almost done. Almost done. Will be posting the Iron Man today or tomorrow.

-X

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-28, 11:51 AM

Almost done with my class, lots of work hours lately, but almost done. Almost done. Will be posting the Iron Man today or tomorrow.

-X

Just in time. xD

Warpwolf16

2012-09-28, 12:39 PM

So many attempts to build Iron man in this contest alone XD

ErrantX

2012-09-28, 01:46 PM

So many attempts to build Iron man in this contest alone XD

Yeah, well, it was one of my favs in the mid 90's, that and Conan. If I wanna do Conan, I'm just going to make a Barbarian :P

-X

Warpwolf16

2012-09-28, 03:04 PM

Yeah, well, it was one of my favs in the mid 90's, that and Conan. If I wanna do Conan, I'm just going to make a Barbarian :P

-X

True and Conan isnt really a barbarian by trade, he is more of a non spell casting ranger with dips in barbarian. Cimmerians, theyre a weird group who once were atlantians before screwing stuff up.

I look forward regardless :P seems most of us make comic book based classes lol

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-28, 04:05 PM

I always thought Conan was more of a multiclassed Fighter/Rogue.

Midwoka

2012-09-29, 02:36 AM

My class is up. I hope to get more written for their basic description, along with a permission-ized picture, but I've got some rough times right now so I don't know if I'll come back to it in time.

The Rocket Knight comes from my (very off) memories of Samurai Pizza Cats. I'm pretty sure I mixed them up with Astro Boy and the Rocket Knight Adventures vidya game over the years. So it's only loosely inspired by a '90s cartoon and it's just at the "acceptably finished" stage right now, so I'm not expecting too much from this month's contest. But I still think it's a neat concept that gives a cool mental image. Fwoosh!

Tanuki Tales

2012-09-30, 06:43 PM

Well, last day of the competition is winding down everyone.

ErrantX

2012-09-30, 11:56 PM

4 minutes to spare, the Iron Man is up!

-X

TheWombatOfDoom

2012-10-01, 06:42 AM

And yet again, I ran out of time. I got bogged down in busy-ness....some day I'll actually be able to make one! (this month however, doesn't look good)

My class is up. I hope to get more written for their basic description, along with a permission-ized picture, but I've got some rough times right now so I don't know if I'll come back to it in time.

The Rocket Knight comes from my (very off) memories of Samurai Pizza Cats. I'm pretty sure I mixed them up with Astro Boy and the Rocket Knight Adventures vidya game over the years. So it's only loosely inspired by a '90s cartoon and it's just at the "acceptably finished" stage right now, so I'm not expecting too much from this month's contest. But I still think it's a neat concept that gives a cool mental image. Fwoosh!

Hahaha, I thought they were based on Team Rocket - The blast off at the speed of light bit in their song/motto.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-01, 09:49 AM

Sorry guys, my other half wanted attention last night so I turned in too early. >.>

I'm going to go close the contest thread, open the voting thread and post the new thread now (still waiting on the artist's Ok on using her art).

Midwoka

2012-10-02, 09:20 AM

*pokes Troll Bräu*

The Rocket Knight link in the voting thread does not link to the Rocket Knight. Fixitfixitfixit!

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-02, 10:16 AM

*pokes Troll Bräu*

The Rocket Knight link in the voting thread does not link to the Rocket Knight. Fixitfixitfixit!

Stupid copy/paste. :smallsigh:

Fixed.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-02, 08:56 PM

Sorry, forgot to update the front page.

It's up to date now and please vote everyone!

ErrantX

2012-10-02, 09:37 PM

This was a fun contest, I'm glad I got to participate. I will likely repost Iron Man after the contest is over, and I definitely would like to see some Iron Man/Rocket Knight love in the future too, can see some seriously fun multiclassing there. I'm looking forward to next month, and I will try to do a somewhat late peach on the classes here.

Moar people should enter too! *glare at lurkers*

-X

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-02, 09:39 PM

ErrantX

2012-10-02, 09:44 PM

Crap, you reminded me that I forgot to update my signature.

There's a link to the new contest on Page 1 by the by.

Oooooo.... Fear huh? First thought was something based on the Yellow Lanterns/Sinestro Corps, but man, there is a lot of options here. Gauntlet thrown, challenge accepted!

-X

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-02, 09:49 PM

Oooooo.... Fear huh? First thought was something based on the Yellow Lanterns/Sinestro Corps, but man, there is a lot of options here. Gauntlet thrown, challenge accepted!

-X

That's what I try to do when selecting a month's theme. I want there to be a literal plethora of possible entries so that nothing feels samey and that everything has a higher chance of being different and unique compared to other entries.

And I look forward to your entry. :smallsmile:

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-06, 10:23 AM

Well, that's 3 days down the drain.

Kane0

2012-10-07, 01:44 AM

Saw the Fear concept of this month, immediately saw an opportunity to make fun of the Bane Darkness quote from Batman. Things sort of flowed from there :smallwink:

Hope everyone likes it, and I'm sorry if I stole the name form anyone :smalleek:

Midwoka

2012-10-07, 02:55 AM

Hope everyone likes it, and I'm sorry if I stole the name form anyone :smalleek:

I will only forgive you if you vote in the previous Pathfinder Grab Bag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257468).

...You monster.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-07, 10:49 AM

I will only forgive you if you vote in the previous Pathfinder Grab Bag (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257468).

...You monster.

Have you voted yet? :smalltongue:

Edit:

@Kane: First thing I'll say is, can you clean up your entry? It looks like it could use some work on presentation before I give it a full rundown.

Kane0

2012-10-08, 09:11 PM

Alrighty, cleaned up my submission a bit. Let me know what you think :smallwink:

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-10, 11:26 PM

Well, there's another contest that's come to a total close!

Congratulations to all the winners, I'll work on the trophies and send them out when I can.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-14, 11:05 AM

About to do a run-down and something bugged me:

Did someone delete their entry? Because I remember there being two when I first looked at Kane's.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-14, 11:21 AM

Time for a rundown on the Fearmonger!

Fear Immunity
I think you meant, "The Fearmonger becomes immune to Fear effects".

Intense Fear
I think you meant, "Creatures that are outside the range of" not "If the creature is outside the range of".

Paralyzing Fear
I think you meant "choose to substitute", not "choose substitute".

That's it for the grammar bits, except that I suggest re-reading over the entry and polishing it up some more, since I saw several places that could use commas.

So, this class is meant for an entry at level 10? And who is meant to normally enter it? Because as it is, I don't see a Wizard or Sorceror giving up 10 levels of spellcasting for what the class grants. And very few melee classes would choose it, but I could definitely see using it on a Dragon.
What is "Proficiencies: Fear"?
What is the "Optionally" bit?
Why does the class have a BAB requirement and than gives a medium progression?
Why isn't a Fearmonger immune to his own Fear Aura initially? That makes it kind of a pain to use.
What exactly does Transfer Fear do other than remove fear debuffs from your allies?
Fear the Fearless should probably mention more in-depth what it exactly effects.
I personally like Paralyzing and Mind-Killing Fear. They give you interesting things to do with Fear in general.
The opinion I have on this class is similar to what I had for the Paranormal Seeker back in the second competition. It doesn't really Wow me or stand out, but it has really good utility use for what it represents and for that reason I could definitely see it being used.

Milo v3

2012-10-14, 04:55 PM

About to do a run-down and something bugged me:

Did someone delete their entry? Because I remember there being two when I first looked at Kane's.

I had a class in called The Living Hive, but my RL friends convinced me that it didn't really fit the theme. So I removed it until I can get a new idea.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-14, 06:06 PM

I had a class in called The Living Hive, but my RL friends convinced me that it didn't really fit the theme. So I removed it until I can get a new idea.

Ah, knew I wasn't going crazy. xD

But how does Apiphobia or Entomophobia not fit the theme? o.o

Milo v3

2012-10-14, 06:24 PM

Ah, knew I wasn't going crazy. xD

But how does Apiphobia or Entomophobia not fit the theme? o.o

Because it wasn't really fear related, more insect related.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-14, 07:09 PM

Because it wasn't really fear related, more insect related.

But Entomophobia is a fear of insects.

Milo v3

2012-10-14, 07:15 PM

But Entomophobia is a fear of insects.

That's what I said.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-14, 08:11 PM

That's what I said.

Well, I'm telling you (as the guy who runs the contest and picked the theme in the first place) that your original idea was fine.

Milo v3

2012-10-14, 08:19 PM

Well, I'm telling you (as the guy who runs the contest and picked the theme in the first place) that your original idea was fine.

I realise that, and I would have reposted it already but I'm at school so I have to wait till I get home.

Milo v3

2012-10-14, 11:31 PM

Okay I've added it back, but it needs alot more work since I didn't continue it once I removed it.

Kane0

2012-10-15, 01:24 AM

Time for a rundown on the Fearmonger!
That's it for the grammar bits, except that I suggest re-reading over the entry and polishing it up some more, since I saw several places that could use commas.

[1]So, this class is meant for an entry at level 10? And who is meant to normally enter it? Because as it is, I don't see a Wizard or Sorceror giving up 10 levels of spellcasting for what the class grants. And very few melee classes would choose it, but I could definitely see using it on a Dragon.
[2]What is "Proficiencies: Fear"?
[3]What is the "Optionally" bit?
[4]Why does the class have a BAB requirement and than gives a medium progression?
[5]Why isn't a Fearmonger immune to his own Fear Aura initially? That makes it kind of a pain to use.
[6]What exactly does Transfer Fear do other than remove fear debuffs from your allies?
[7]Fear the Fearless should probably mention more in-depth what it exactly effects.
[8]I personally like Paralyzing and Mind-Killing Fear. They give you interesting things to do with Fear in general.
[9]The opinion I have on this class is similar to what I had for the Paranormal Seeker back in the second competition. It doesn't really Wow me or stand out, but it has really good utility use for what it represents and for that reason I could definitely see it being used.

Thanks for the feedback Troll Bräu, ill get to working on my submission.

Fixed up the grammar of Fear Immunity, Intense Fear and Paralyzing Fear

1. Its meant to be as unrestricted as possible. An Anti-paladin, a Psion and a wizard could all easily qualify, as would many creatures. Straight tanks may not choose it, but i could see a few supporting characters picking it up (non-casting bards come to mind). If the lack of spellcasting progression is a worry I can put in a few levels.

2. Umm... That was a joke :smallredface:

3. The optionally part was for RP heavy games/players as opposed to the optimization mind frame. (Not going into Stormwind though)

4. Good point, Pre-req removed.

5. Fix'd

6. Nothing at this point. I was considering it also providing sustenance (Food + Water, not sleep) equal to 24 hours when he does so.

7. It allows any fear based effect the Fearmonger uses to ignore immunity to fear. Thats about it.

8. Thanks :smallsmile:

9. Thats what I aim for. I like me brew to be as simple and usable as possible, but still allow for customization and fun character concepts.

ErrantX

2012-10-15, 02:59 AM

I am so torn as to what to write for this contest. The contest quote is a great FDR quote and I'm inclined to write something that capitalizes on it, at the same time, I have a dark and twisted little mind so we'll see and lay out the options...

First, a prestige class that is based using my Ebon Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163297) class (if allowed) and bardcraft, that herds spectres with haunting requiems and gains spectral undead powers of fear, calling themselves the Singers of Phobos or something to that likening.
The second idea is that of spellcaster that does for spells with a fear descriptor what swiftblade did with haste, called the Scarecrow (unless I can think o of something better).
The third idea is a bit more complicated, but it the mortal enemies of Will and Fear in the same class as chosen paths cannot be denied in the Green Lantern Corps and Sinestro Corps.

Anyone have a preference?

-X

Kane0

2012-10-15, 05:43 AM

I vote for option 1 cause I'm a fan of your Ebon Initiate :smallsmile:

Following that thought, maybe call it the Singer of the Damned?

Milo v3

2012-10-15, 05:48 AM

Following that thought, maybe call it the Singer of the Damned?

Or perhaps the Tongue of Moros.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-15, 07:35 AM

I realise that, and I would have reposted it already but I'm at school so I have to wait till I get home.

Okay I've added it back, but it needs alot more work since I didn't continue it once I removed it.

That's cool, take your time. Because of that server maintenance we went under, the contest is already extended till November 3rd, so you definitely have some more time.

Thanks for the feedback Troll Bräu, ill get to working on my submission.

Fixed up the grammar of Fear Immunity, Intense Fear and Paralyzing Fear

1. Its meant to be as unrestricted as possible. An Anti-paladin, a Psion and a wizard could all easily qualify, as would many creatures. Straight tanks may not choose it, but i could see a few supporting characters picking it up (non-casting bards come to mind). If the lack of spellcasting progression is a worry I can put in a few levels.

The lack of spellcasting/manifesting/etc. is a worry because it gives no incentive for anyone with any kind of class feature to take the class. Who would give up 6-9th spells/powers/etc. for what the class grants?

2. Umm... That was a joke :smallredface:

Oh. :smalltongue:

3. The optionally part was for RP heavy games/players as opposed to the optimization mind frame. (Not going into Stormwind though)

Oh. In that case, wouldn't a set requirement like, "A character must have truly feared for their life, been under the effects of the panicked condition from a spell or supernatural ability, or spent one month training with another Fearmonger to take levels in this class" make more sense?

6. Nothing at this point. I was considering it also providing sustenance (Food + Water, not sleep) equal to 24 hours when he does so.

Well, think something up before the contest closes.

7. It allows any fear based effect the Fearmonger uses to ignore immunity to fear. Thats about it.

I know. It's just some RAW sticklers like to see it plainly laid out since technically Undead, Constructs, etc. are still immune. Just not Paladins.

I am so torn as to what to write for this contest. The contest quote is a great FDR quote and I'm inclined to write something that capitalizes on it, at the same time, I have a dark and twisted little mind so we'll see and lay out the options...

First, a prestige class that is based using my Ebon Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163297) class (if allowed) and bardcraft, that herds spectres with haunting requiems and gains spectral undead powers of fear, calling themselves the Singers of Phobos or something to that likening.
The second idea is that of spellcaster that does for spells with a fear descriptor what swiftblade did with haste, called the Scarecrow (unless I can think o of something better).
The third idea is a bit more complicated, but it the mortal enemies of Will and Fear in the same class as chosen paths cannot be denied in the Green Lantern Corps and Sinestro Corps.

Anyone have a preference?

-X

1. While Necrophobia, Spectrophobia, and Thanatophobia fit perfectly with the theme, this is a Pathfinder only contest and not 3.P. To that end, I'll have to say no to having it as a PrC that progresses off the Ebon Initiate.
3. Again, while Xanthophobia fits the very well with the theme, the addition of GL into the mix doesn't. Unless the class allows the user to choose to inflict great fear on those around them or to have great resistance to things that are feared (in which case it fits the theme and is an interesting entry, but I worry if it might be too niche to be a whole base class)
2. This is my favorite of your three mentioned ideas. I loved the Swiftblade and what it did for Haste, so I'd be very interested in more classes like it.

Just my two pence on the subject. And that's cutting me own throat. :smalltongue:

Kane0

2012-10-15, 04:51 PM

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-15, 08:27 PM

Have tweaked the pre-req, added a little casting progression and clarified the Fear for the Fearless ability.

Please keep in mind that the casting progression is deliberately broad (I don't think I missed anything did I?) because I want this class to be as applicable as possible to as many character concepts as possible in game. Though giving 5 levels of casting might tip the balance a bit now, I'm considering dropping the HD to d6 to compensate.

Thoughts?

The first issue I have is that your new addition to the class kind of makes it ineligible to be an entry. This is a Pathfinder only material contest and several of those things are 3.5 mechanics (if I've made an exception in a previous contest where I allowed something that was blatantly 3.P and didn't make a Pathfinder equivalent for a 3.5 mechanic/term/ability/etc. please let me know. That's not something I most likely thought out/knowingly did at the time and it wasn't my intention to set a precedent for such entries).

My second issue is the wording is just wonky. Maybe look at how that one PrC from 3.5's Weapons of Legacy was worded for an example.

Kane0

2012-10-15, 09:12 PM

Okay, in that case I can chop it down into Spellcasting and Psionics only, as those are the only two I think are in PF.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-15, 10:40 PM

Alright. All the trophies are finished and sent out!

ErrantX

2012-10-15, 11:56 PM

Alright. All the trophies are finished and sent out!

Many thank yous! I attached them to the class that I reposted to the forum proper.

-X

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-17, 07:51 PM

Many thank yous! I attached them to the class that I reposted to the forum proper.

-X

You're very welcome. =D

Can't wait to see your entry for the month!

Milo v3

2012-10-23, 08:22 PM

Living Hive is done, as well as the One of Many and Living Nest.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-30, 10:41 AM

Sorry all, between college and Sandy, I've been stretched thin. :smallfrown:

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-30, 11:00 AM

Ok, before I do a run-down on the Fear Eater, can either Mathias or someone else tell me exactly what class has the Devastating Touch and Aura of Fear class features?

Time for a run-down on the Living Hive!

Fluff
I'd try restructuring those first two sentence a bit; for some reason it just looks like commas might be being overused.
I think you meant "awaken" instead of "awake".
I think you meant "entomophobic" instead of "entomophobics".
I would combine the two sections personally. They're too short to really be stand alone section.

Crawling Within
You switch from a generic pronoun to a specific one and do so through the class, you should pick one or the other.

Actually, let me stop it here. I'd suggest you give your entry a full read through and fix it up a bit. I'm seeing a lot of errors and more good would be served by a brief editing from you than from me pointing out every error.

Also, please remove that image from your entry. It's from the original Ben 10 television show and you haven't made mention that Man of Action gave you permission to use it.

Mathias1313

2012-10-30, 02:03 PM

My Fear Eater is based off the Dread, it is a fear based psionic class from Psionics Unleashed. I believe it is by Dreamscarred. The ones doing Psionics for Pathfinder.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-30, 02:48 PM

My Fear Eater is based off the Dread, it is a fear based psionic class from Psionics Unleashed. I believe it is by Dreamscarred. The ones doing Psionics for Pathfinder.

It doesn't look like that class ended up being for valid use with the other material from Dreamscarred on the Pathfinder SRD (yet).

So I find myself at an impasse; I want to allow it since it is just a continuation of the other Dreamscarred psionic material (which I've allowed in this contest before), but I want to disallow it because until it's on the Pathfinder SRD, it's not OGL and thus it's hard to judge it as a PrC.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-30, 03:40 PM

Oh. And before I completely forget, here's the preview for next month:

On the Origin of Species

Warpwolf16

2012-10-30, 03:53 PM

It doesn't look like that class ended up being for valid use with the other material from Dreamscarred on the Pathfinder SRD (yet).

So I find myself at an impasse; I want to allow it since it is just a continuation of the other Dreamscarred psionic material (which I've allowed in this contest before), but I want to disallow it because until it's on the Pathfinder SRD, it's not OGL and thus it's hard to judge it as a PrC.

its a wonderful little class Troll Brau the staff on the Pathfinder SRD haven't gotten around to updating those little bits, they're currently trying to update all of the paizo supplements released so far and Paizo has been pushing them out faster then they can keep up.

and yes its based on fear and terror! I love Dreads they make my void scholar look legit.

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-30, 04:06 PM

its a wonderful little class Troll Brau the staff on the Pathfinder SRD haven't gotten around to updating those little bits, they're currently trying to update all of the paizo supplements released so far and Paizo has been pushing them out faster then they can keep up.

and yes its based on fear and terror! I love Dreads they make my void scholar look legit.

My brother has that book, I need to get it from him.

But the point still stands that, as of now, few people have access to reading the Dread class and until it's added, you can't really explain the stuff here on GiTP.

Warpwolf16

2012-10-30, 04:20 PM

True enough also next months theme is interesting, got a feeling its gonna be a mess to work with but I think it can be done!

Tanuki Tales

2012-10-31, 11:11 AM

I'm sorry, but I've come to the final decision that, until the Dread is up on the Pathfinder srd, it can not be used as basis for an entry into this contest.

My decision is such for the following reasons:

Dreamscarred Psionics is 3rd party material at its very core. The only reason it is allowed in this contest in the first place is because it was made to work specifically with Pathfinder, Paizo sells the book and because a lot of individuals use the PSRD just like a lot of people used the d20 SRD. So if it's not on the PSRD, it's not even usable in the common "Core + PSRD" gaming set up.
Without being on the PSRD, the material is not for fair use and discussion. So anyone judging the PrC on it's merits would be required to own a copy of Psionics Unleashed and it's not fair to ask that of Playgrounders[/i].

I didn't decide this lightly and I apologize for its impact.

The good news is, depending on any last minute entries before the deadline on the 3rd, I will most likely be extending the contest to allow the minimum 3 entries to be submitted, leaving ample time for any reworks, rewrites or resubmissions.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-01, 11:45 AM

Alright, the new contest is up and Fear Itself still has two days before it ends (though I may be extending it if we don't get a third entry).

But on to something more important!

Remember back when I said there would be changes coming towards the trophies? How I also said we'd be getting two or three new trophies?

Well...I lied!

You'll be getting 8 new trophies in the contest!

Now, you're probably thinking, "12 trophies?! Are you crazy! That's waaay too many votes every month!" But worry not, only seven of those twelve are handed out every month and you only vote for five of them.

"But what about the other 5 trophies?" you may ask; well, those are super secret "achievement trophies" that are only handed out to select individuals when the requirements for earning them are met. So you'll just have to stick around and keep your eyes open to find out what those trophies are and how you earn them!

*ahem*

Anyways, starting with "Fear Itself"'s voting thread these new trophies will go into effect, which goes hand in hand with the brand new trophy design for the contest. I hope you'll all enjoy it as much as I will. :smallsmile:

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-02, 10:44 AM

Fear Itself has been extended until the 10th. If anyone has an entry they didn't submit because they thought they ran out of time, you've got another week. So please do submit it. :smallsmile:

Warpwolf16

2012-11-02, 02:55 PM

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-02, 04:06 PM

I'm on the case! I've had a rough month but I think I can work up something, was in New Orleans and picked up some copies of Swamp Thing(Yes I bought the comics set in Louisiana, so be it!) and really got a idea for the trinity of the Green, Red, and the Rot. I'll try and have it posted by tomorrow if possible.

New 52 needs to just die already. *sigh*

Is it continuing the thing from Brightest Day where Swamp Thing is Alec Holland? Because that's just a damn insult.

Anyways, Floraphobia then?

And how was New Orleans? 'cause I'm jealous with all that good food.

Also for the new contest I was hoping I could finally make the High Evolutionary as a class, though seeming as you want a primeval style entry I have a few better ideas including a shapeshifter class similar to a druid without the magic and other hindering bits, I look forward to the entries! Though I wish I did pick up that book on primeval flora and fauna, would have came in handy this month.

Well, High Evolutionary works if you devolve as well as evolve. I'll add basic "evolution" to the theme since it seems poignant.

And have you tried Wikipedia?

Warpwolf16

2012-11-03, 03:37 AM

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-03, 10:51 AM

It is but the New 52 is a wonderful thing for Swamp Thing as it brings back up a lot of old lore for Swamp Thing and yes it is Alec Holland but he was given the choice of becoming Swamp Thing and that the Green did need him. Anton Arcane and his kin are vessels of the Rot while Animal Mans daughter is the vessel of the Red and Swamp Thing the vessel of the Green, the story line is really developed and I'm loving every moment of it.

The whole point of Swamp Thing was that he wasn't Alec Holland and had to come to terms with that. It was then interesting to see how a sentient plant interacted with the rest of the cosmos, especially when juxtaposed with human morality. It just feels like DC is taking a dump on Vertigo's work. Again.

I'm thinking the class will be focused on the Rot, so fear of entropy, chemicals, radiation, etc. Things of the rot, things man cant understand but only be warped by.

Sounds cool. Just remember, you have a week.

Also New Orleans was amazing Troll Brau, so much culture, so much food, so much amazingness. You should totally go!

If I had the money. xD

As for the High Evolutionary idea I was tempted but as you've worded it so far I can work with anything and yes wikipedia would be my friend, I actually have a few books on flora and fauna I use as inspiration and reference material for my games and stories. I might wait and see whats posted before i make any final decisions though I'm definently gonna be working hard.

Hopefully we get some more entries this month. I admit I'm saddened to not see the return of certain folks as the contest months go on, but eh, that's the nature of the beast.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-06, 10:44 PM

So...4 days left. Anyone working on a last minute entry? =D

ErrantX

2012-11-06, 10:57 PM

I want to, but my thought out ideas were shot down and I can't make the fear spell specialist work :smalleek:

I am trying!

-X

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-06, 11:56 PM

I want to, but my thought out ideas were shot down and I can't make the fear spell specialist work :smalleek:

I am trying!

-X

Look forward to it.

Warpwolf16

2012-11-08, 02:15 PM

I'm without internet right now and currently on a buddies wifi and wont have connection for a while till I get my houses wiring straightened out! Sorry Troll Brau!

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-08, 06:47 PM

I'm without internet right now and currently on a buddies wifi and wont have connection for a while till I get my houses wiring straightened out! Sorry Troll Brau!

It's cool.

I just hope I won't have to throw last month's contest out because of lack of entries. Can't really show case the new trophies if we don't even have 3 entrants.

Midwoka

2012-11-08, 09:10 PM

I was terribly sick for half of October, so I kinda decided not to rush something out after getting better. I was pretty inspired by the theme, though, so I may finish my thing in time for the extended deadline =)

We'll see.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-08, 10:28 PM

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-10, 09:53 PM

Two hours folks. Guess I'll just be calling Fear Itself.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-11, 12:06 AM

Congratulations to the winners of last month's contest. I will get on the trophies as soon as I am able and I look forward to seeing the entries for this month.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-12, 08:15 PM

We have a contest image again everyone! =D

I've been working on essay stuff for English, so hopefully I'll be able to work on the trophies tomorrow or Weds.

Kane0

2012-11-12, 08:46 PM

Hmm, primeval eh? I think I have something in mind, it will give me a chance to practice making monsters too...

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-16, 11:54 PM

Well, we're about half-way into the contest now and I'm glad to see two entries, albeit unfinished, entered thus far. Hoping to see more entries before the final grain of sand falls.

I want to apologize on how long it's taken to get the trophies finished. I've been all over the place on the other side of the screen, but I'm going to go work on them now.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-17, 06:11 PM

Alright, the trophies have been sent! I hope everyone enjoys the new format for them and, as we reach the points where the other trophies are handed out, I hope everyone will enjoy the new colors as well. I've also increased their overall size by 100 pixels and I think it makes them look clearer and nicer.

Feedback is appreciated. :smallsmile:

Milo v3

2012-11-17, 08:42 PM

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-23, 03:11 PM

So, we're here in the last week or so of the competition folks, but not a single complete entry. :smallfrown:

I hope we'll see at least three complete entries before this month closes out, but it'd be awesome to get more! :smallbiggrin:

Milo v3

2012-11-23, 04:35 PM

Sadly, I'm not sure I'll be able to finish as basically all of my assessments have been due this month and there is still two due next week.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-24, 04:03 PM

So, I want to talk with all of you about the theme for January's contest.

So far I have two concepts in mind:

Oaths and Resolutions: The contest's theme will revolve around making, sticking to and/or breaking pacts/oaths/resolutions/covenants/etc.
Out with the Old, In with the New: The contest will be base class only and revolve around creating a new, never before seen mechanic.

Which of the two do you guys like?

ErrantX

2012-11-24, 04:33 PM

Milo v3

2012-11-24, 06:53 PM

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-24, 07:25 PM

I'm annoyingly fine with either.

Why annoyingly? o.o

Milo v3

2012-11-25, 04:26 AM

Why annoyingly? o.o

More annoying for you, as my response doesn't help.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-25, 12:01 PM

More annoying for you, as my response doesn't help.

Ooooh.

Does anyone know if Midwoka is feeling better, by the by?

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-26, 11:24 PM

Alright.

If I extend November's contest until December 7th, can I get three promises for submitted entries?

Because otherwise I'm going to have to label this month's contest a failure and just truck on to next month hoping for better turn out. I really don't want to do this, but it seems I have little other choice and it's just bad form that this contest needs to be extended every month because of lack of interest and/or lack of entries.

Midwoka

2012-11-27, 09:29 AM

Ooooh.

Does anyone know if Midwoka is feeling better, by the by?

I was already un-sick by the 8th, when I posted about having been sick. I'm very over it =)

For this contest, though, I just haven't been too inspired... Things I think up keep looking better as more generic and non-primeval, so they kinda lose the theme. Or for monsters, they just end up being an ooze or a slight variation on dire animals.

ErrantX

2012-11-27, 04:37 PM

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-27, 08:38 PM

I wasn't really motivated with this one, to be honest. I'll try to come up with something if you want to extend it til the 7th though!

-X

I know it's probably the weakest theme so far, but it felt timely and poignant for the month.

If you can promise an entry, I'll extend it. One entry is better than none.

For future reference, before the first half of the month is out, if a few of you guys don't feel like the theme I picked will motivate you to enter, please let me know. I'd rather pitch a new theme and extend the contest than have it fall flat.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-27, 08:44 PM

Oh, and before I totally forget, here's the sneak peak at next month's theme:

Have a Holly, Jolly Brewmas!

ErrantX

2012-11-27, 09:01 PM

I know it's probably the weakest theme so far, but it felt timely and poignant for the month.

If you can promise an entry, I'll extend it. One entry is better than none.

For future reference, before the first half of the month is out, if a few of you guys don't feel like the theme I picked will motivate you to enter, please let me know. I'd rather pitch a new theme and extend the contest than have it fall flat.

Gotcha, I'll make an effort on both counts.

-X

tallonRook

2012-11-28, 12:18 AM

Heh, I finally plucked up the courage to post an entry to this contest. My class is done except for the one class feature that gives you almost everything, so not really. It's just here so I don't lose the courage to post the rest of the class later.
The Shaman's intended to be the sorcerer/oracle to the druid class, the Totem similar to the bloodline/mystery. I realize there is a set of similar archetypes for the druid class (which I drew some inspiration from) and bizarrely a class with an identical name and similar concept (spontaneous druid) in Kobold Quarterly that I did not know about when I came up with the idea for the class some months ago. I'll hopefully get the first few totems done by tonight, with the rest sprinkling in up until the deadline.
If it isn't obvious, Template Bond is not actually supposed to be an option. It's just a placeholder/template. I would love some critique after the first few totems bonds are in.

Tanuki Tales

2012-11-28, 12:23 PM

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-01, 06:12 PM

So, the new contest is up.

Sorry for not getting a run-down yet, I've been indisposed and I'm not sure when I'll have enough free time to give an honest critique.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-05, 11:21 AM

Hey, I have time for rundowns! Awesome!

Anyways, let's start off with the Quirksteed!

I see no grammar concerns, so right on to my other comments:

So they're some kind of mutated off-shoot of horses? Or are they just an example of convergent evolution or something similar?
Since in Pathfinder, Dire Animals are the primeval ancestor of non-dire animals, shouldn't the Quirksteed be Huge size category, not Large?
All and all, this isn't a CR 3 Aberration. It has too few HD, too few HP, too low an AC, possibly too low an attack bonus, and too low saves.
Why does it have two claw attacks? And how long is it's tail?

Well, that's it for the Quirksteed and now on to the Shaman!

Let's start with the grammar and similar junk:

Fluff
I think you meant "Clerics manipulate the power of the gods" not "Shamans manipulate the power of the gods".

And that's it really for grammar.

I don't actually have many comments for this class. The flavor is pretty nice and the mechanics are interesting. I just hope we'll see more Totems up before Friday. Good job!

Edit:

Oh and I finally updated the bit in the contest thread concerning the amount of votes. It now reflects the addition of the new trophies.

Also, if anyone is interested in when I will be updating the past entries archive, I do that every three contests. This means it'll get updated after voting ends for November's contest.

@Midwoka: Sorry for this being a late reply, but I'm glad you're feeling better!

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-05, 02:16 PM

Well, I must say that the Monkey Atavist is quite the interesting entry and here's my rundown on it:

No real grammar things to note off a cursory glance, so moving on.

You say that Atavists are the result of cursed men, so why is their type Fey?
A bite attack is not a Special Attack.
The fluff for these guys make it sound like they're generally loners, so why do they have the Swarming special attack?
Where does the Favored Terrain come from?
What does "You have no Money!" under Gear mean?
Since you call these guys "Monkey Atavist", does that mean there are other animal flavors?
Most creatures who get their HD from class levels have "As PCs" sections, do you intend to make one? Because I'm curious over what their base racials are.

Edit:

Oh, and before I forget, welcome to the competition! :smallbiggrin:

tallonRook

2012-12-06, 11:10 PM

Thanks! I have six totems up now, and they're probably the ones I'll be able to get finished before the deadline. I made one for each ability score, though if I ever made more they wouldn't be so constrained.

Kane0

2012-12-07, 01:28 AM

Cheers for the rundown Troll Bräu.

1. They aren't actually related to horses or any other equines as far as evolution is concerned, though it may be possible. It's up to how the DM wants them to be really. I took the approach that they are the modern descendants of an equine creature (most likely horses or zebras) somehow aberrated (is that a word?) in the past, around primeval times. Wild magic, external interference, that sort of thing.

2. Because they are aberrations (and me not associating abberations with the 'normal' evolution path of animals and possibly magical beasts, if evolution is even a thing in PF), they aren't really dire animals, nor are they necessarily related to them. That said either could be possible because of point 1 above. I didn't want to make them too big as that would take away from the fact that they are comparatively less dangerous than most other aberrations, as well as being possible alternatives for mounts or cattle in aberration-heavy or out of the ordinary lands/campaigns.

3. True. CR dropped to 2. I was mainly concerned about the amount of attacks it could get off and the DC of its poison and stampede.

4. Three reasons: To make the stampede slashing damage, to up the damage dice of its hoof attacks and cause if the mental picture I had when making it (Herds of these running across large fields or light bushland mincing up everything they run over, then coming back around to 'graze' the churned up creatures that could not dodge them before scavengers arrive. Anything that tries to compete with them for this food is bitten or cut up by their clawed legs as they kick much like modern horses do).
It's tail wouldn't provide any reach or anything, it would be about 3-4' long tops. Think a not-quite-prehensile tentacle coated in poisonous slime where a tail belongs.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-07, 11:18 AM

Cheers for the rundown Troll Bräu.

Welcomes. I just wish I knew when you had completed the entry so I could have given it sooner.

1. They aren't actually related to horses or any other equines as far as evolution is concerned, though it may be possible. It's up to how the DM wants them to be really. I took the approach that they are the modern descendants of an equine creature (most likely horses or zebras) somehow aberrated (is that a word?) in the past, around primeval times. Wild magic, external interference, that sort of thing.

So maybe convergent evolution then? Like how both insects and birds developed wings or how sharks and dolphins have similar body shapes.

2. Because they are aberrations (and me not associating abberations with the 'normal' evolution path of animals and possibly magical beasts, if evolution is even a thing in PF), they aren't really dire animals, nor are they necessarily related to them. That said either could be possible because of point 1 above. I didn't want to make them too big as that would take away from the fact that they are comparatively less dangerous than most other aberrations, as well as being possible alternatives for mounts or cattle in aberration-heavy or out of the ordinary lands/campaigns.

What I meant was that Dire Animals are the prehistoric versions of regular animals and are always a size category larger. So an Aberration that ran in the same environment with ancient horses would be of comparable size to said horses.

And to be honest, huge size category does not a dangerous aberration make. It's the relatively human competitive Intelligence score and the body horror supernatural abilities they tend to have.

3. True. CR dropped to 2. I was mainly concerned about the amount of attacks it could get off and the DC of its poison and stampede.

Still a little under that CR's average numbers. Maybe give it some weird Aberration-y attack or defense? Like slick skin that lessens damage from piercing and bludgeoning damage or a howl that frightens or something?

4. Three reasons: To make the stampede slashing damage, to up the damage dice of its hoof attacks and cause if the mental picture I had when making it (Herds of these running across large fields or light bushland mincing up everything they run over, then coming back around to 'graze' the churned up creatures that could not dodge them before scavengers arrive. Anything that tries to compete with them for this food is bitten or cut up by their clawed legs as they kick much like modern horses do).

Well...do they have hooves or paws with claws? Because if you want their hoof attacks to do slashing damage, just give them a special attack that says so and call it "Serrated Hooves" or something.

Awesome mental image though.

It's tail wouldn't provide any reach or anything, it would be about 3-4' long tops. Think a not-quite-prehensile tentacle coated in poisonous slime where a tail belongs.

So its tail is like a symbiotic terrestrial anemone or an organ that's like that?

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-08, 12:56 PM

The competition is closed and the voting thread is up folks!

Please go vote for last month's competition and don't forget that this month's still has plenty of time left! :smallbiggrin:

4th number

2012-12-08, 11:58 PM

Milo v3: The plural of nemesis is "nemeses."

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-09, 12:16 AM

Milo v3: The plural of nemesis is "nemeses."

Or nemesi.

And always happy to see a new face. =D

4th number

2012-12-09, 01:08 AM

Or nemesi.

And always happy to see a new face. =D

Thanks, I'm thinking of working something up for this month.

EDIT: It stretches the contest guidelines a bit, but I love an excuse to make wizened old badasses.

EDIT2: It might be passable now with some polish, but I need to swap out some of the dull stuff for neat signature abilities.

4th number

2012-12-09, 07:27 PM

If anyone's got comments on my entry, I'd appreciate them. It's my first PrC.

I think it needs something minor and flavorful at 1st level, and major and flavorful at 3rd and/or 4th. Anyone have any input?

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-09, 09:15 PM

4th number

2012-12-09, 10:13 PM

Well, let me give an improtu rundown. :smalltongue:

Technically it's not in with the theme in the strictest sense, but the pun on "winter of your life" gets massive approval from me. :smallbiggrin:
Why are Quite Spry, Remarkably Spry and Shockingly Spry so limiting?
My Old Friend is boring as an ability honestly. Something I'm learning as I become more seasoned as a brewer is that abilities that actually do things are more fun than just static number boosts.
New Tricks is kind of weak. I'd suggest letting those feats be floating feats that can be re-selected every day and maybe changed as an immediate action 1/day.
One Last Fight is neat as a capstone, but is it really feasible? It comes online at level 13 at the earliest, a point where both Raise Dead and Resurrection are on table. Unless they were facing a TPK, it would almost never be a good idea to use this ability. That and Diehard is honestly a gods awful feat.
Overall, I really like this PrC and will enjoy seeing how you polish it up.

Edit:

Also, please get the permission of the artist that art is from. Otherwise, we can get in trouble.

I'll defend the "Spry" series as-is-- they're soley to provide what amount to large ability score increases to make martial old folks viable. A Venerable character taking 5 levels of the class gets +3 to each mental stat compensated by a -6 to one physical stat of their choice. If the character actually saw play before this class, they will see +12 over 5 levels, +5 of which hits at the first level. It's limited, but it's aimed at the big penalties that the character suffered to quality.

You're right that flat numbers are generally dull-- I need some good weapon tricks for that ability.

I'll have to find some better flavor for "pick some feats." This section will improve.

For the capstone, I reckon that the player of an Old or Venerable character is looking for something different to finish them up. The best goal for One Last Fight is to make sure that when it's used, it creates an awesome story.

Most generally, I'm worried about this being a decent mechanical choice. Is it reasonable for someone to build a character around this? Will it be able to kill level-appropriate things relative to a pure fighter, barbarian, or rogue?

I think it might need bonus damage, no?

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-10, 01:55 PM

I'll defend the "Spry" series as-is-- they're soley to provide what amount to large ability score increases to make martial old folks viable. A Venerable character taking 5 levels of the class gets +3 to each mental stat compensated by a -6 to one physical stat of their choice. If the character actually saw play before this class, they will see +12 over 5 levels, +5 of which hits at the first level. It's limited, but it's aimed at the big penalties that the character suffered to quality.

The issue is that it's a hidden tax on entering this class. Why would they roll up a Venerable or Old character if they're not even mechanically going to be eventually compensated for their initial investment?

For the capstone, I reckon that the player of an Old or Venerable character is looking for something different to finish them up. The best goal for One Last Fight is to make sure that when it's used, it creates an awesome story.

This is true. But the issue is that it permanently kills off the character, when they could still get many years of adventuring out of themselves still with just the proper spell being cast.

Now if One Last Fight just keyed off when the character is classified as dead and they can't be prevented from dying once the class feature activates, it'd be better.

Most generally, I'm worried about this being a decent mechanical choice. Is it reasonable for someone to build a character around this? Will it be able to kill level-appropriate things relative to a pure fighter, barbarian, or rogue?

Honestly, I don't know if I'd take levels in this PrC except for the novelty factor. It's not mechanically a good enough choice yet.

I think it might need bonus damage, no?

Or an ability that forces some concept of old age onto foes.

4th number

2012-12-12, 01:07 PM

Big pile of changes.

added 2 smaller abilities at 1st level along with the ability restorations

made My Old Friend (at 2nd level) fun and varied, and added advancement at 4th and 5th. Looking for input on balance of the options.

added Veteran's Insight at 3rd and 5th for some good ol' combat bonuses

gave out a wicked debuff with Instant Wisdom, balanced (hopefully) by having it take a full round.

made a lot of stuff land on the last level. Gave a smaller boost to the third penalized ability score. Planning a retooling of One Last Fight.

What do you think of the progression? Are any levels too light?

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-13, 04:33 PM

Time for another rundown on the Winter Warrior!

How does Second Skin interact with the Armor Training class feature of the Fighter and similar abilities?
I admit that I don't see the Aid Another action used much in any game I've played, but why is the bonus only increased by +1 instead of +2 for creatures two or more age categories younger?
The only issue I see with My Old Friend is the fact that this is a Pathfinder only competition and Tome of Battle and maneuvers by extension are Dungeons and Dragons material.
How does Veteran's Insight interact with other abilities that add Wisdom or Intelligence to attack rolls.
Instant Wisdom should give a save, not just be a combat maneuver. Also, why does it apply to Outsiders (who are generally ageless), but not Dragons, Oozes, Plants or Vermin?
Only the Fifth level is light, at least until you've come up with a new capstone.

And that's all I have to say at the moment. Hopefully I'll be able to give a rundown on other entries soon.

Also, anyone who has not yet voted, please do so.

Midwoka

2012-12-13, 07:12 PM

I took a while to vote because I didn't want my history with horses to affect my choices. It still feels wrong giving the Quirksteed my 1st place vote...

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-13, 07:25 PM

I took a while to vote because I didn't want my history with horses to affect my choices. It still feels wrong giving the Quirksteed my 1st place vote...

To be honest, all three entries could have benefited from having a whole month pass so that they could be critiqued and polished by all of us here. And things would have been better if we had more than just three entries. But that's not the case and each entry has flaws in them that could sway a vote to not garner them a first place vote or either of the other trophies being handed out. So don't feel bad if you happened to enjoy one entry more than the others.

In other news, I hope to see an entry from you this month; I always enjoy reading what you throw into the ring. :smallbiggrin:

Kane0

2012-12-13, 08:14 PM

Umm, sorry about that. Didn't want to sway your vote or anything, I was just brushing up on my 'quick-I-need-to-throw-together-a-monster' skills.

Midwoka

2012-12-15, 11:02 AM

Don't worry, Kane0. My experience with horses involves being kicked with a glowing-hot horseshoe, so my knee-jerk reaction wasn't swaying me in your favor =P

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-16, 12:05 AM

Well, the voting is officially closed! Congratulations to those individuals who won this time around!

I'll try to jump on the trophies tomorrow and have them out before Tuesday.

Milo v3

2012-12-16, 05:54 AM

After tommorrow I should be able to do much more work on the Bleak Nemesis, no more assessments and no more school.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-16, 11:15 PM

After tommorrow I should be able to do much more work on the Bleak Nemesis, no more assessments and no more school.

Look forward to it. :smallbiggrin:

4th number

2012-12-18, 02:19 PM

Troll Bräu:

How does Second Skin interact with the Armor Training class feature of the Fighter and similar abilities? Made it a small scaling numerical reduction/increase (like Armor Training) and noted specifically that it stacks with Armor Training and similar (which I think is just Hellknight, as far as Paizo stuff). The donning time decrease stays the same.
I admit that I don't see the Aid Another action used much in any game I've played, but why is the bonus only increased by +1 instead of +2 for creatures two or more age categories younger? Now that I think about it, almost every character is going to be 2 age categories lower anyway, so I just made it a flat +2 bonus if they're 1 or more age categories lower. Also specified that it includes Aid Another in combat and while making skill checks, since skill checks are really the only place I've seen Aid Another used. It's quite a good ability-- a winter warrior should be handing out +4 bonuses to his party like candy. Specified that the additional +2 is a morale bonus.
The only issue I see with My Old Friend is the fact that this is a Pathfinder only competition and Tome of Battle and maneuvers by extension are Dungeons and Dragons material. Oh, of course. Replaced it with Sneak Attack as a rogue.
How does Veteran's Insight interact with other abilities that add Wisdom or Intelligence to attack rolls. Specified that Veteran's Insight and Seen it All provide insight bonuses, which stack with everything but other insight bonuses.
Instant Wisdom should give a save, not just be a combat maneuver. Also, why does it apply to Outsiders (who are generally ageless), but not Dragons, Oozes, Plants or Vermin? I'll work on it.
Only the Fifth level is light, at least until you've come up with a new capstone.

I'll modify the 4th and 5th level abilities from here, but I'm pretty happy with the crunch in general.

It actually makes quite a decent dip if you're ever making a front-line senior citizen but don't have 5 levels free in the build-- full BaB, two good saves, either +4 or +10(!) to ability scores, the armor stuff, and you become the best flanking buddy ever.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-18, 04:35 PM

@4th:

I definitely do look forward to your reworks. Otherwise, this prestige class is turning out pretty nicely done. I just hope you'll have some actual competition before the month is out. I know Milo is working on his soon, but that'd still only be two entries. :smallfrown:

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-19, 12:14 AM

And all the trophies are finished and have been mailed to their recipients!

Once again, congratulations to everyone who placed in the last round!

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-21, 02:34 PM

Well, since there was no Apocalypse, I guess no one has that convenient excuse for not working on their entries.

:smalltongue:

I'll probably give the contest thread another bump in a few days to let folks know we exist and I hope that we'll have at least 3 complete entries before the deadline. :smallsmile:

Midwoka

2012-12-21, 03:59 PM

Well, since there was no Apocalypse, I guess no one has that convenient excuse for not working on their entries.

:smalltongue:

But I do have the excuse of it being my birthday. Today. Right now.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-21, 04:24 PM

But I do have the excuse of it being my birthday. Today. Right now.

Well, Happy Birthday then!

Razanir

2012-12-23, 12:25 PM

Posted my entry: the Defender of the North (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14421501&postcount=11). It's based off Santa and St. Nicholas of Myra, his real-life version. I hope that's not against the rules, but St. Nick's really only the reason the Defender's an unarmed paladin. Anyway, feel free to comment on it here

Midwoka

2012-12-23, 12:41 PM

One thing I noticed was that it mentions "ice damage" a few times, which should probably be "cold damage"

Razanir

2012-12-23, 12:54 PM

One thing I noticed was that it mentions "ice damage" a few times, which should probably be "cold damage"

Fixed. And does it otherwise seem balanced? In short, it's supposed to be an ice-themed unarmed paladin

Midwoka

2012-12-23, 01:17 PM

It looks mostly balanced to me, but that's not really my strong suit.

I'll say that I think it could use some cold resistance (which could pad levels 2 and 4 with another ability :) ) and Survival as a class skill, since they need to live alone in tundra. Brr.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-23, 08:28 PM

Here's my run-down on Defender of the North!

Nothing really needs to be fixed grammatically from what I saw, so let's move on.

This Prestige class is....kind of an odd duck to say the least.
Your theme is a paladin who traveled to the northern lands and gained divine insight, but nothing it grants really feels like that. And it doesn't really explain why the Paladin goes there in the first place.
The theme of the abilities feels more like something that would make a Barbarian or Ranger prestige class.
The class requires Improved Unarmed Strike and gives a progression for it, but there's no apparent reason for this.
It's...a little boring to be brutally honest. It gives ice damage, natural armor and then cold immunity as the big things, with some small bells and whistles for being in a cold environment. Cutting to the chase, who do you envision taking levels in this prestige class and why?
Balance wise, this is fine. Paladins are the only ones who get in and nothing it gives really shoots up the power or versatility of Paladins or any other class that gets Smite Evil.

And that's about it. Glad to see another new face in the contest! :smallsmile:

Razanir

2012-12-23, 10:17 PM

This Prestige class is....kind of an odd duck to say the least.

Yeah... In retrospect, it was an odd idea. The inspiration was St. Nick (I mean the real-life one, not Santa). The story I know about him is that he punched a heretic at a big church council. From there, I added the ice theme to go with the secular version of Santa.

Your theme is a paladin who traveled to the northern lands and gained divine insight, but nothing it grants really feels like that. And it doesn't really explain why the Paladin goes there in the first place.

See above. Any advice for the fluff?

The theme of the abilities feels more like something that would make a Barbarian or Ranger prestige class.

Okay. I might remove Smite Evil as a prerequisite and turn it into a class ability. It would still be based off the Paladin, and Paladin levels would still stack, but a level of Paladin wouldn't be required

The class requires Improved Unarmed Strike and gives a progression for it, but there's no apparent reason for this.

See my first comment. I took the fact that the real-life version of Santa punched out heretics and I ran with it. I suppose that I could explain it better fluff-wise, though

It's...a little boring to be brutally honest. It gives ice damage, natural armor and then cold immunity as the big things, with some small bells and whistles for being in a cold environment. Cutting to the chase, who do you envision taking levels in this prestige class and why?

Hmm... What if I added adamantine, cold iron and silver fists? Also, what if I added scaling damage reduction at the end? Like DR (Character level)/-

Balance wise, this is fine. Paladins are the only ones who get in and nothing it gives really shoots up the power or versatility of Paladins or any other class that gets Smite Evil.

Is it safe balance-wise if I turn Smite Evil into a class ability? I'm new to homebrewing classes.

Again, I know it was an odd idea for a class, the unarmed ice-themed paladin, but I ran with it

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-25, 08:22 PM

The bits about Saint Nicholas of Myra are honestly news to me. I've never heard of any of that and, to be honest, I would think that there is much more to his history that one could base a PrC on (such as his generous nature that lead to the evolution of the Santa Claus icon or the variety of things he is a patron saint over).
It's pretty safe to give Smite Evil as a class feature and to have levels in this class stack with Paladin. Paladin is not an amazing class by any stretch and even Pathfinder's rendition of it would require a debate for one to call it mechanically and objectionably "good". The Chevalier PrC that Paizo itself created gives Smite Evil as a class feature for example.

And Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates it!

Razanir

2012-12-26, 12:21 AM

[list] The bits about Saint Nicholas of Myra are honestly news to me. I've never heard of any of that and, to be honest, I would think that there is much more to his history that one could base a PrC on (such as his generous nature that lead to the evolution of the Santa Claus icon or the variety of things he is a patron saint over).

I'll take that as an "It's legal"

Anyway, I did a bit of an overhaul of the Defender. I still need to rework the fluff, though. I merged Icy Fist and Aligned Fist into the same ability and made it more appealing. Now his fists are always magic weapons with frost. I also added an ability to allow for gift giving.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-26, 01:56 PM

Here's another run-down on the Defender of the North!

I wonder if, as a roleplaying requirement, the class should have some kind of act of charity and generosity as a requirement to enter (such as how Saint Nicholas became the Patron Saint of "Women of Questionable Virtues").
Smite Evil, as it is now, is kind of weak by itself. A Paladin entering this class is fine since they'll be counted as a level 10 Paladin for it. But non-Paladins kind of get screwed, only ever getting SE of a 5th level Paladin. The Chevalier, on the other hand, bases it's SE off the total levels of the character.
Divine Bond falls into the same trap; it's great for Paladin/Defender of the Norths, but not other entries. I don't think it'd be too unbalanced to have this work off their total character levels as well (+5 bonus to a weapon for 20 minutes a day? Nah). Also, why is it limited to only handing out the weapon property? Getting a flying, magic caribou would be neat. :smallwink:
Gift Giving could use some clarifications. As it is, you don't need the 4th level ability it gives since nothing in the 2nd level bit prevents you from doing just that (as long as you have enough gold in your pool). The ability also doesn't prevent the creation of Wondrous Items, Alchemical gear, exotic materials, etc. You'll need to be really specific on the limits of this ability so it doesn't become broken (since everything it makes, except weapons, are permanent).
Icy Wind doesn't stack with Cleric levels?
Aligned Fists is kind of meh as a class ability. Why is it there and not just rolled into Enchanted Fist?
Man of Ice is still kind of meh as well. It just doesn't feel like a capstone to me. Maybe something that allows the conjuring of snowstorms for varying uses or the animation of snow constructs that obey the Defender or some kind of time dilation effect/haste effect or something like any of that.

All in all though, I do like where this rewrite is going. It does feel more together and on track than the last version of it and I could see people being interested in taking levels in it.

Razanir

2012-12-26, 07:25 PM

I wonder if, as a roleplaying requirement, the class should have some kind of act of charity and generosity as a requirement to enter (such as how Saint Nicholas became the Patron Saint of "Women of Questionable Virtues").

I'll think about it

Smite Evil, as it is now, is kind of weak by itself. A Paladin entering this class is fine since they'll be counted as a level 10 Paladin for it. But non-Paladins kind of get screwed, only ever getting SE of a 5th level Paladin. The Chevalier, on the other hand, bases it's SE off the total levels of the character.

Good idea.

Divine Bond falls into the same trap; it's great for Paladin/Defender of the Norths, but not other entries. I don't think it'd be too unbalanced to have this work off their total character levels as well (+5 bonus to a weapon for 20 minutes a day? Nah). Also, why is it limited to only handing out the weapon property? Getting a flying, magic caribou would be neat. :smallwink:

Fair enough.

Gift Giving could use some clarifications. As it is, you don't need the 4th level ability it gives since nothing in the 2nd level bit prevents you from doing just that (as long as you have enough gold in your pool). The ability also doesn't prevent the creation of Wondrous Items, Alchemical gear, exotic materials, etc. You'll need to be really specific on the limits of this ability so it doesn't become broken (since everything it makes, except weapons, are permanent).

I'll work on it. But are the spending limits fine, at least?

Icy Wind doesn't stack with Cleric levels?

New rule for the class: If a class ability is identical to one from a base class (Divine Bond, Smite Evil, Icy Wind), then it uses character levels

Aligned Fists is kind of meh as a class ability. Why is it there and not just rolled into Enchanted Fist?

Vestigial. It already was; I just forgot to delete it

Man of Ice is still kind of meh as well. It just doesn't feel like a capstone to me. Maybe something that allows the conjuring of snowstorms for varying uses or the animation of snow constructs that obey the Defender or some kind of time dilation effect/haste effect or something like any of that.

Again, I'll work on it. I have a few days yet

All in all though, I do like where this rewrite is going. It does feel more together and on track than the last version of it and I could see people being interested in taking levels in it.

Thanks. And if you hadn't guessed, this is actually my first time homebrewing a class

Milo v3

2012-12-27, 01:44 AM

I didn't have any motive to continue to Bleak Nemesis. So I've removed it.

And replaced it with the now finished Sainesti which are based on christmas elves with a darker feel.

Note: I'll also planning on adding the Kindred's stats to the competition which will be a warrior race with time manipulation powers which are the masters of my christmas elves.

EDIT: On second thought, I probably wont have time to add it.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-27, 10:27 PM

I'll work on it. But are the spending limits fine, at least?

They look fine.

New rule for the class: If a class ability is identical to one from a base class (Divine Bond, Smite Evil, Icy Wind), then it uses character levels

Alrighty.

Thanks. And if you hadn't guessed, this is actually my first time homebrewing a class

You did mention it and I think you're doing fine! :smallsmile:

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-28, 12:29 PM

Now for a run down on the Sainesti!

Fluff
You have one e too many in the word "being" in the first sentence.

Physical Description
I think you meant "with pointed" and not "which pointed".[/b]

Society
[list] I most definitely think you meant "skilled" and not "killed". :smalltongue:

Relations
"Craftsmanship" is one word, not two.

That's it for grammar, as far as I can see.

Why are Guardians at the bottom of the caste system? Usually the gatherers are the bottom and the warriors near the top, with craftsmen either being above or below warriors generally.
Why do they have a racial swim speed by the by?
Do you mind explaining how exactly Blood of the Tundra works in more detail? Do Ice weapons ever melt and how hard are they to destroy? Can these weapons be made masterwork and enchanted? Can they only use ice in place of steel/iron; like, can they not take snow and weave it like it was silk?
I personally can't remember a wholly Fey race having a maximum age.

And that's it. I really do like these guys you've made and I hope one day to see the Kindred statted up (though right now I'm imagining them as red-pelted ape men because of Aqua Teen Hunger Force :smalltongue:).

Milo v3

2012-12-28, 08:11 PM

Now for a run down on the Sainesti!

Why are Guardians at the bottom of the caste system? Usually the gatherers are the bottom and the warriors near the top, with craftsmen either being above or below warriors generally.
Kindred are a mainly warrior race, making Guardians some what redundant. Also the Kindred want to make sure the Sainesti don't rise up so they forced the Guardians to be the lowest caste in society, reducing the chance of rebelion.

Why do they have a racial swim speed by the by?
In the glacial regions, you need to know how to swim or you will likely fall in and drown. And even if you now how you need to be able to get out of the water fast enough to not be frozen to death. Also they are fey of the glaciers and snow, glaciers and snow are made of water, water fey get swim speeds.

Do you mind explaining how exactly Blood of the Tundra works in more detail? Do Ice weapons ever melt and how hard are they to destroy? Can these weapons be made masterwork and enchanted? Can they only use ice in place of steel/iron; like, can they not take snow and weave it like it was silk?
I'll add some details to the entry.

I personally can't remember a wholly Fey race having a maximum age.[/list]
If the Kindred kill a rebeling Sainesti every now and then, the Sainesti would need at least a human-like rate of reproduction. But that and huge lifespans would cause an immense number of Sainesti and overpopulation. Thus, they need to be non-immortal.

And that's it. I really do like these guys you've made and I hope one day to see the Kindred statted up (though right now I'm imagining them as red-pelted ape men because of Aqua Teen Hunger Force :smalltongue:).
I'll try and get stats for them.

Razanir

2012-12-28, 11:50 PM

Okay. Mine should be ready now. I added limits to Gift Giving and also some fluff. The fluff is just a story written in everyone's favorite font–Comic Sans! :smallfurious: But hey, at least I mentioned Sahn'ta Cl'aa's

Milo v3

2012-12-29, 12:08 AM

Okay, I've now added in an Alternate Feature for Guardians, a racial feat, and rules for Ice Crafting.

4th number

2012-12-29, 02:54 AM

Winter Warrior is all done, but I'd appreciate final critiques. Recent changes include:

Fluff added. Pretty generic, but this isn't setting-specific or anything.
Added a modest Knowledge requirement. Seems reasonable, given all the insight bonuses, and heck-- everyone should know something about something by the time they're old and gray. :smallbiggrin:
Noted that Hey, Rookie normally results in a +4 total bonus.
Made it so you can't use the My Old Friend option E) more than once, and you can now choose up to 2 weapon abilities to make up your max total, since there aren't really many +5 abilities for high-level characters to choose.
Complete rewrite of the 4th level debuff. Need input on mechanics and appropriate DCs.
Re-introduced the capstone (though 5th level is quite good even without it). It now has a very long name and doesn't necessarily kill you if you do it, but I hope the penalty afterwards is enough to make sure that it really gets used on BBEG fights.

Wow, it feels good to be done with my first PrC. Well, barring final revisions and art permissions, anyway.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-29, 05:02 PM

Let's start off the run downs with the Defender of the North!

I see what you tried to do with the Paladin Abilities class feature, but I'm not sure that by RAW it works that way. Anyone else mind weighing in if they know? For example, Smite Evil gives it as a Paladin of their Defender level and Paladin Abilities looks like it tries to then translate that into total Character level.
Gift Giving looks much better than it used to. Looking at it now though, I wonder if "Alchemical items" should be replaced with "Trade Goods (Can not weight more than X lbs)". That way a Defender of the North could "gift" thieves tools for disarming a trap or "gift" a lantern for traversing the dark, but not pull a full boat or carriage out of thin air.

All in all, this class has really polished up nicely. I'd just give it another once over since you've missed some punctuation here and there. Otherwise, great job!

Next up: Sainesti!

In the glacial regions, you need to know how to swim or you will likely fall in and drown. And even if you now how you need to be able to get out of the water fast enough to not be frozen to death. Also they are fey of the glaciers and snow, glaciers and snow are made of water, water fey get swim speeds.

Maybe drop the swim speed entirely, give Cold Resistance ~1-5 and a racial bonus to Swim checks?

If the Kindred kill a rebeling Sainesti every now and then, the Sainesti would need at least a human-like rate of reproduction. But that and huge lifespans would cause an immense number of Sainesti and overpopulation. Thus, they need to be non-immortal.

Well, why not make them like Gnomes and just be humanoid descendants of Fey? That way you can give them Fey Blood, which opens up room since you don't need to balance for the Fey main type any longer.

The Snow Crafting feat is honestly pretty weak. Why not change it so that they can just replace snow and ice for any material when crafting? That way they can make fleets of ice ships or snowflake windows or other such things?

Other than all that, these guys look good to go!

Finally: The Winter Warrior!

I'd increase the Knowledge requirement to 8 ranks, to match the BaB. It's an easy pittance to get 4 ranks in a skill by 8 HD.
Impart Wisdom looks fine, but how does it affect creatures that also age similar to True Dragons (I'm not aware of any existing in Pathfinder as of yet, but devil's advocate and all that)? But maybe rename it to something like "Weight of Ages"? It's current name just sounds like a positive thing (unless it's meant in a sarcastic manner, then nevermind).
I Have Been Preparing For This My Whole Life is much better as not only a capstone but as a class feature in general. The only thing I suggest is explaining what happens if they already have the Diehard feat.

Nice polishing of your class.

Aaaand that's all folks! Two days till the competition ends and it doesn't look like we'll be getting any last minute completions or new entries; So, I think we have our contestants!

4th number

2012-12-29, 05:35 PM

Some final changes:

Added art. It may change if I get permission for something I like better, though.

Made the Knowledge requirement 6 ranks, so you can get in with just cross-class ranks after 8th level.

Added some verbiage to Impart Wisdom. (which is in fact a sarcastic name :smalltongue:)

Changed the wording to "...the winter warrior gains the Diehard feat if they do not already have it." I think the capstone is good enough that Diehard is very minor, and almost all people won't have it anyway since (as you pointed out earlier) it kinda sucks.

Milo v3

2012-12-29, 05:42 PM

Maybe drop the swim speed entirely, give Cold Resistance ~1-5 and a racial bonus to Swim checks?
But name one type of water fey which doesn't have a swim speed. It just doesn't feel right. Though they should have some form of cold resistance.

Well, why not make them like Gnomes and just be humanoid descendants of Fey? That way you can give them Fey Blood, which opens up room since you don't need to balance for the Fey main type any longer.
I hate that backstory, fey shouldn't lose their power just because they left their lands (Which these guys didn't) and it doesn't make sense for them to breed with a completely different creature type (So that backstory is gone).

And lastly, removing the Fey type and making them Humanoid removes the some of the subtle eldritch flavour.

The Snow Crafting feat is honestly pretty weak. Why not change it so that they can just replace snow and ice for any material when crafting? That way they can make fleets of ice ships or snowflake windows or other such things?
That sounds fitting.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-29, 06:05 PM

Made the Knowledge requirement 6 ranks, so you can get in with just cross-class ranks after 8th level.

Erm, Pathfinder doesn't have Cross-class skill penalties or anything. You just get a flat bonus for even having a rank in a class skill.

Changed the wording to "...the winter warrior gains the Diehard feat if they do not already have it." I think the capstone is good enough that Diehard is very minor, and almost all people won't have it anyway since (as you pointed out earlier) it kinda sucks.

Alrighty.

But name one type of water fey which doesn't have a swim speed. It just doesn't feel right.

Said Water Fey also tend to be bound to water though.

I hate that backstory, fey shouldn't lose their power just because they left their lands (Which these guys didn't)

Is that their back story? I never honestly read deep into the fluff for them.

and it doesn't make sense for them to breed with a completely different creature type (So that backstory is gone).

How so? And they could always have been cursed or bound in flesh or something or other.

And lastly, removing the Fey type and making them Humanoid removes the some of the subtle eldritch flavour.

True, I was just pointing out a change that could change what you needed to balance is all.

4th number

2012-12-29, 06:14 PM

Erm, Pathfinder doesn't have Cross-class skill penalties or anything. You just get a flat bonus for even having a rank in a class skill.

Oh, duh. Thanks.

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-31, 10:42 AM

Last day before this month's contest closes everyone!

Razanir

2012-12-31, 04:52 PM

I actually have a question for future competitions. What timezome is the posting deadline in? Like I'm in UTC-6

Tanuki Tales

2012-12-31, 05:01 PM

I actually have a question for future competitions. What timezome is the posting deadline in? Like I'm in UTC-6

Eastern Standard Time aka UTC-5 (-4 for Daylight saving's).

Midwoka

2012-12-31, 06:56 PM

Bluh... I'm not going to be able to do a last-minute entry, I don't think. I still like the concept for my Yulewraith (the ghost of someone who isn't dead yet, come back in time to make them reform), but I can't get the mechanics for it anywhere near satisfactory :S

I'm still hoping to get something done for next month, though.

4th number

2013-01-02, 02:13 AM

When's the next one start?

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-02, 11:25 AM

When's the next one start?

Already did, I just haven't updated the first post or my sig. Check the first two or three pages of this subforum.

Razanir

2013-01-02, 05:20 PM

Are any of the following allowed:
1) Two unique monsters. One focuses on upholding oaths; one focuses on breaking them
2) Two intelligent magic swords (possibly statted as constructs). Same focus
3) The Dead Men of Dunharrow (also known as the oathbreakers) statted up as a race or monster

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-04, 02:20 PM

Are any of the following allowed:

Here is my verdict on the matter.

1) Two unique monsters. One focuses on upholding oaths; one focuses on breaking them

If the creatures are directly tied to one another, such as being twins or different aspects of one entity or something similar, I will allow it because they're unique, singular entities.

2) Two intelligent magic swords (possibly statted as constructs). Same focus

Since items isn't a valid entry type, it'd have to be statted up as a monster. Also, it'd have to be a single item/creature that shifts to reflect one or the other depending on environmental stimuli.

3) The Dead Men of Dunharrow (also known as the oathbreakers) statted up as a race or monster

How are they different from a standard Ghost?

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-04, 04:42 PM

Alright, the reference tables for all the past entries have been updated. Please let me know if you guys see any broken/wrong links or anything else that is incorrect with the "archives".

I also had an idea for a contest theme for some time down the road that I'd like to run past you guys:

The name of the contest would be "Through a Mirror Darkly" and the theme would be to select a previous entry to the contest and create what is essentially its polar opposite.

For example, you could take the Spider-Blood Assassin and make a Healing/Buffing class that uses butterfly imagery/symbolism.

Edit:

And we're at Post 666 with this one. :sabine:

Milo v3

2013-01-04, 05:11 PM

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-04, 05:22 PM

Through a Mirror Darkly sounds good, though I have no idea which I would pick.

It could be next contest or it could be 50 from now...you'll never know till it's here. :smallwink:

And I think you meant reply 666.

Yes, that.

Milo v3

2013-01-04, 05:33 PM

It could be next contest or it could be 50 from now...you'll never know till it's here. :smallwink:

God I'd be 21 by the 61th contest.
That'll be a lot of options.

Also, my entry for this month is based on Contractors from an anime called Darker Than Black, and this will basically be my campaigns replacement for the warlock.

4th number

2013-01-04, 06:42 PM

God I'd be 21 by the 61th contest.
That'll be a lot of options.

As in, you'll have to option to drink instead of homebrew? :smallbiggrin:

Kane0

2013-01-05, 03:57 AM

Also, my entry for this month is based on Contractors from an anime called Darker Than Black, and this will basically be my campaigns replacement for the warlock.

Sounds great! I love me my warlocks.

I think I'll change my entry into a 5 or 10 level prestige class, it's too unfocused in my head and in fluff to be a base class.

4th number

2013-01-07, 07:29 PM

I'm making the Solar-sworn PrC. It'll be fun-- an arcane caster who takes levels in it will start gaining divine spells instead of their normal progression. I'll be asking for advice when the mechanics are more developed. I'll need it, too, 'cuz I ain't messed with full casters before, and that way lies danger.

4th number

2013-01-07, 11:09 PM

Could I get opinions on the core spellcasting mechanic and oath? Everything else in this class will be secondary, so I want to get this as good as I can.

Here's my entry, the solarsworn. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14490020&postcount=8)

Kane0

2013-01-09, 10:42 PM

4th number

2013-01-09, 10:49 PM

I really like the casting mechanic you have, seems like a really neat idea. Did you have anything in mind for fixed list casters? Changing to the cleric list seems ok, unless i'm missing something.

Your oath sounds a little extreme. Being hunted down or losing all spellcasting power form one evil act (extremity of the act is irrelevant, i presume?) is a major blow. Perhaps just the standard lose all class abilities excluding casting?

I have the Axiopact fleshed into its first draft for review too.

It's a significant power-up for a fixed-list caster (especially spontaneous) to suddenly be able to access a massive list like that, so I'm trying to find a way to lock it down a bit.

I might amend it to "seriously evil act," but it's ultimately the Solar's call. I could also remove the don't-be-evil clause and offer a set of more specific sample oaths that could be taken.

I definitely want to yank out spellcasting as a punishment, though. Maybe just the solarsworn casting, leaving them with their arcane stuff from before.

I'll check out the Axiopact and give you a rundown when I can.

Kane0

2013-01-09, 11:10 PM

It's a significant power-up for a fixed-list caster (especially spontaneous) to suddenly be able to access a massive list like that, so I'm trying to find a way to lock it down a bit.

I might amend it to "seriously evil act," but it's ultimately the Solar's call. I could also remove the don't-be-evil clause and offer a set of more specific sample oaths that could be taken.

I definitely want to yank out spellcasting as a punishment, though. Maybe just the solarsworn casting, leaving them with their arcane stuff from before.

I'll check out the Axiopact and give you a rundown when I can.

In that case, maybe instead of choosing arcane spells on level up as they normally would that then become divine, they choose divine spells or get the choice? That way they don't get more spells than normal, but can still get the divine spells.

Sounds fair. That gives it a little more freedom when being implemented by the DM. Maybe the player must make his own oath to present to the Solar (DM)?

Just take away the aspects and give emnity/unpleasantness form the outsiders until atoned, seems alright. They can still cast, and they might have to just to keep their head above water if they dont want to atone.

Cheers.

4th number

2013-01-10, 12:00 AM

Let's talk Axiopact. I dig the Inevitable flavor, but Inevitables always seemed to me to be a way to reign in PCs. Is this PrC aimed for PC use?

If it is, it seems pretty weak mechanically. No spellcasting for casters, no full BaB for beatsticks, only one good save. After 5 levels of it (at a minimum of CL 10, right?), you get some neat perception abilities, non-scaling DR and SR, 2d6 bonus damage, a situational save boost, and the summoning capstone. I like Truespeech and Vigilance, but they're basically flavor abilities. Electricity resistance is fine, but I feel like I'd have to go out of my way as a DM to find enemies that would make it useful.

I think it needs something that really gives new options to a player. Maybe a transition to part-construct, or a Favored Enemy-type bonus to something you're hunting. Someone hearing that an Axiopact is after them should be scared ****less.

SLAs are good, too-- dispel magic, mark of justice, hold person, that kind of thing.

It should probably get True Seeing at some point, permanent or otherwise.

EDIT: It occurs to me that an Axiopact could make an awesome archer. Once they're unleashing a decent handful of arrows per round, that 2d6 gets scary.

Kane0

2013-01-10, 02:49 AM

When the initial idea struck me I was thinking 3rd ed Inevitables, which are more or less the same except for their focus on minimizing/punishing the misuse (chaotic use) of magic and lack of creators leading to their own society. Anyway, most inevitables are intelligent as well as lawful, so while they can be a royal pain in the ass (like a lawful stupid paladin) they are also capable of reason and can consider circumstances, though that rarely means you get off scott free.

Mechanically speaking, it isn't meant to be a powerhouse, especially at only 5 levels. I still cant figure out if i want it to have 4 skills per level or full BAB, but everything else seems pretty decent for a 5 level dip in a class that is easy to get into (not even any feat tax). It isn't supposed to excel at one kind of thing, it is supposed to appeal to a small extent to a number of (admittedly non-magic) classes and builds, and offers a range of abilities that are cool but not gamebreaking (like flight and true seeing can be).
Although you are right in that it does not offer much that is new and interesting, even if it is packed full of stuff.

When i was thinking a full base class or 10-level prestige class, i was seriously considering the capstone being gaining the inevitable subtype, but it wasnt unique or focused enough to have that many levels.

I've always hated true seeing, especially the permanent variety. It's like an off switch for all illusions in the game. I've got a houserule that the regular version only works on effects of spell level 6 or lower, and there is a 9th level version that works on everything.

Yeah, archers would like the extra 2d6. And being electrical damage, it is somewhat rarer a resistance to come across. Anybody with a weapon would like it, and the resistance is more for the flavor and likeness to the inevitables they so constantly work with.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-10, 12:26 PM

What a pleasant surprise to open the thread to; seeing the contestants PEACHing one another. :smallbiggrin:

Well, here's my run down on the Axiopact!

I don't see any grammatical issue from my first read through, so let's move on!

The concept for this class is neat, I really do like the idea of it, but the execution could really be better.
Inevitables aren't constructs any longer in Pathfinder, they're outsiders with construct traits.
Why does a class with a full BaB progression have only a d8 HD and doesn't give full BaB in return?
This is just a personal opinion of mine, but I always feel like 2+Int mod skills is just too little per level for any class to get.
The Code of Conduct should probably read "Willingly performing a Chaotic act". The Paladin code makes the same caveat, so I would assume as much from other codes.
Why is the Darkvision range so large?
Stem the Tide is...kind of underwhelming. They get a limited equivalent of a level 2 class feature, the equivalent of a feat, something that has very limited applications outside certain games and piddling DR for a 5 level class investment and binding themselves to a higher power for all time.
Why do all Axiopacts get Electric Affinity? That's a trait exclusive to Zelekhuts and they don't even get Electricity resistance.
Vigilance is to be expected, but where do you get the 4 hours from?
Implacable is....pretty niche.
Spell Resistance is just too small in the end. It's alright for when it's gained at its earliest (where PCs with the standard 11+ would only have 21), but it's outdone 5 levels later.
Why does Call the Inevitable call only Zelekhuts?
Now that I think about it...why is this class sworn to Inevitables and not their creators and rulers, the Axiomites? :smallconfused:

And that's all for now!

Morph Bark

2013-01-10, 04:01 PM

Hm, y'know, I actually am thinking of participating in this thing this once this time. I got some ideas that might turn out well and interesting.

In the meantime, there's something else you might like to check out...

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**may not convey accurate amount of testing

Kane0

2013-01-10, 04:24 PM

Cheers for the Input Troll Bräu!

Why does a class with a full BaB progression have only a d8 HD and doesn't give full BaB in return?
This is just a personal opinion of mine, but I always feel like 2+Int mod skills is just too little per level for any class to get.

I want to do either full BAB or 4+Int skills, but can't decide on which.

The Code of Conduct should probably read "Willingly performing a Chaotic act". The Paladin code makes the same caveat, so I would assume as much from other codes.

Done.

Why is the Darkvision range so large?

Changed to default 60', I had 120' as the default in my mind for some reason.

Stem the Tide is...kind of underwhelming. They get a limited equivalent of a level 2 class feature, the equivalent of a feat, something that has very limited applications outside certain games and piddling DR for a 5 level class investment and binding themselves to a higher power for all time.

Thinking of making them at will, and maybe adding a few more SLAs. Truespeech is really just permanent nonmagical Tongues going by it's PF description. Why do you consider the DR low though?

Why do all Axiopacts get Electric Affinity? That's a trait exclusive to Zelekhuts and they don't even get Electricity resistance.

Not true, all Inevitables bar Kolyaruts have some form of electrical attack, though none have the resistance.

Vigilance is to be expected, but where do you get the 4 hours from?

Just off the top of my head, to counter the Axiopact standing watch all night every night (or going out every night) and still getting full benefits of rest.

Implacable is....pretty niche.

Yep, as intended. Compliments evasion well too.

Spell Resistance is just too small in the end. It's alright for when it's gained at its earliest (where PCs with the standard 11+ would only have 21), but it's outdone 5 levels later.

Thinking of changing this to fast healing 1 or something. 5 Levels isn't enough to make a nice SR scale

Why does Call the Inevitable call only Zelekhuts?

Changed to Planar Binding, same spell level.

Now that I think about it...why is this class sworn to Inevitables and not their creators and rulers, the Axiomites? :smallconfused:[/list]

Good question. I picked Inevitables over Axiomites for a few reasons:
- Axiomites created the Inevitables to defend them against chaos, meaning the Inevitables are taking the active role against chaos and lawbreaking.
- The Axiomites are more about the learning and understanding of law than the implementation of it and retribution for its breaking.
- Axiomites are less powerful and varied than Inevitables and arguably do not control them any more, only rule over them. The only real reliance the Inevitables have on the Axiomites is their creation and guidance, both of which would not be hard to figure out on their own.
- Inevitables could still function with the loss of the Axiomites, but the opposite is much less likely.
- If an Axiopact wanted to work with/for Axiomites, it wouldnt be that hard even without changing the class. Just look at it as working your way up the ladder.

On the point of the overall power level, I don't want to be a victim of power creep here. PF (and D&D in general) doesn't have many 5 level classes, so they are sort of untested territory. As well as that, many classes only get one class ability per level, where the Axiopact gets 2 at every level. Some like the Rogue, Assassin and Shadowdancer get 2, but not at every level. So for a 5 level investment as opposed to a 10 level for another prestige class an Axiopact could get a slightly smaller return for the chance at 5 levels in something else. In the long run the Axiopact isn't the light at the end of the tunnel, it functions as a nice, flavorful detour on the path to power.

Edit: That Powerthirst reference made me lol Morph. I am checking out the link now :smallamused:

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-10, 05:48 PM

Cheers for the Input Troll Bräu!

It's practically the only thing I do around this place and someone has to do it. :smalltongue:

I want to do either full BAB or 4+Int skills, but can't decide on which.

Why not both? :smallconfused:

Thinking of making them at will, and maybe adding a few more SLAs. Truespeech is really just permanent nonmagical Tongues going by it's PF description. Why do you consider the DR low though?

But being able to speak all languages really amounts to nothing in the end. Either your DM is going to handwave it at some point because it's bogging down the game or it's important enough that you already have a way around it before entering this class.

As for the DR, let me illustrate:

Fire Giants are a very common enemy for that CR, from my experience and to my knowledge, so we'll use that guy for the example.

Assuming the Fire Giant only lands 1 attack a round, he does an average of 25 damage a round. If he gets off his full routine, that's 75 a round. All of this excluding high rolls, crit hits or him using the Power Attack feat his stat block gives him.

So your capstonish DR is blocking only ~7-20% of the physical damage coming your way without accounting for crit hits, power attacking or anything else.

Not true, all Inevitables bar Kolyaruts have some form of electrical attack, though none have the resistance.

I didn't really consider Lhaksharut, but I don't know how I forgot Arbiters (or even Maruts for that matter *facepalm*).

Just off the top of my head, to counter the Axiopact standing watch all night every night (or going out every night) and still getting full benefits of rest.

I meant the 4 hours for regaining hit points. I don't remember that in the rules; I thought it was 8 hours.

Yep, as intended. Compliments evasion well too.

Did you change it? I don't remember it being that when I read it.

Thinking of changing this to fast healing 1 or something. 5 Levels isn't enough to make a nice SR scale

Well, you don't need to make it scale. Fast Healing or some weakened Regen would be neat too.

- Axiomites are less powerful and varied than Inevitables and arguably do not control them any more, only rule over them. The only real reliance the Inevitables have on the Axiomites is their creation and guidance, both of which would not be hard to figure out on their own.

To be honest, I personally viewed their stat block as being the equivilant of a base race commoner.

In the long run the Axiopact isn't the light at the end of the tunnel, it functions as a nice, flavorful detour on the path to power.

If memory serves, isn't that exactly what Paizo didn't want Prestige Classes (and Base classes for that matter) being? I agree with the mindset that taking a prestige class shouldn't be an extended dip to polish your build but something that is a serious change to your character as a being.

As for power creep, don't worry too much about it. I or one of those other folks will let you know if you give out too much or too powerful stuff. You need to worry more about making your class something worthwhile to take.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-10, 06:26 PM

Alright, moving on to the Solarsworn, but I'll just give some comments for now since it's not finished.

3rd level casting would be the level you'd want if you plan for this to be a normal prestige class.
What I suggest to fix your spellcasting problem is to allow them to trade out their spells every time they get new spells. The trade off is that you cut down how much this class progresses spellcasting. I personally feel like a prestige class shouldn't give a lot of spellcasting progression, even those meant for casters. It completely eliminates opportunity costs and makes taking levels in the class a complete no brainer (why take levels in Wizard when you get the same progression for your spells but all these cools bells and whistles too?).
I'd like to see some more explanation on the Solar Aspect options.

While I'm here, I want to talk about next month's theme. I've come up with four so far and I'd like input on which ones you guys like:

Spell it Out for Us - Your entry is themed around one spell of your choice.
Homebrew, I Choose You! - In honor of the announcement of X and Y your entry is themed around one of the current 652 Pokemon of your choice.
Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger - This contest would be base class only; you select one of the existing base classes and make an entry based on it.
Passion Unbound - Your entry is themed around an emotion of choice.

Razanir

2013-01-10, 07:07 PM

Passion Unbound - Your entry is themed around an emotion of choice.

I pick this one. Oh, and expect my entry for this contest over the weekend

Milo v3

2013-01-10, 07:26 PM

While "Homebrew, I Choose You!" does call out the Fanboy in me. I think "Spell it Out for Us" would be best.

Morph Bark

2013-01-10, 07:29 PM

...well, I got something lying around for a class that'd fit perfectly with "Homebrew, I Choose You!" so clearly I gotta vote for that.

Kane0

2013-01-11, 01:30 AM

My vote goes to "Spell it out for us"

Taking your critique into consideration as i post, ill probably post again with the changes made.

Midwoka

2013-01-11, 01:51 AM

Spell It Out doesn't sound too bad, but I'd much prefer Homebrew, I Choose You!

Kane0

2013-01-11, 02:14 AM

Axiopact Changes
- d10 HD
- 4 Skills per level
- Full BAB
- Fast healing 1 replaces SR

Also, yes i think I did change the entry for Implacable to specify conditions that deny you taking actions.

If memory serves, isn't that exactly what Paizo didn't want Prestige Classes (and Base classes for that matter) being? I agree with the mindset that taking a prestige class shouldn't be an extended dip to polish your build but something that is a serious change to your character as a being.

Most likely. I can respect that point of view, which explains why they have no 5 level prestige classes. I read through a thread discussing this dilemma on some other forums, but i cant find it now. I'll see if I can dig it up. Quite a good read.

TheWombatOfDoom

2013-01-11, 08:38 AM

Homebrew, I Choose You! Sounds like a hoot in a hand basket!

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-11, 12:34 PM

So that puts Homebrew, I choose you! firmly in the lead. Any other voices to weigh in?

Also, if you haven't voted yet for the last competition, please do so! :smallsmile:

SamBurke

2013-01-11, 01:44 PM

Despite never having done this before, I vote for Spell it Out for Us.

4th number

2013-01-11, 02:02 PM

Despite never having done this before, I vote for Spell it Out for Us.

Yeah, me too. [Though, I suppose the Pokemon thing might get some new interest from the Playground.]

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-11, 03:37 PM

So that's 4 for Spell it Out for Us and three for Homebrew, I choose you!

I'll keep this improptu voting open until this month's contest closes out. :smallwink:

But if you change your mind, just say so; these votes aren't set in stone.

Warpwolf16

2013-01-11, 08:03 PM

Oh such a hard choice, both subjects seems wonderful concepts. Also debating if I could come up with something for this month.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-12, 10:05 PM

Before I forget, I wanted to let you all know that this contest will have two themes that are permanent each year and will not change:

1. [Name Pending] - Every March will be a Monster only contest held in memorium for the loss of the Fathers of the hobby. The theme is to create a monster that is to the flavor of the original editions of Dungeons and Dragons and screams "Gygax".

2. Once More, With Feeling! - I haven't selected a month yet, but the theme for this contest is a previous theme (over three contests back minimum) as decided by the regulars in here.

Milo v3

2013-01-12, 10:11 PM

1. [Name Pending] - Every March will be a Monster only contest held in memorium for the loss of the Fathers of the hobby. The theme is to create a monster that is to the flavor of the original editions of Dungeons and Dragons and screams "Gygax".

So something that looks completely mundane and normal but kills anything it touches.

Warpwolf16

2013-01-12, 10:52 PM

Before I forget, I wanted to let you all know that this contest will have two themes that are permanent each year and will not change:

1. [Name Pending] - Every March will be a Monster only contest held in memorium for the loss of the Fathers of the hobby. The theme is to create a monster that is to the flavor of the original editions of Dungeons and Dragons and screams "Gygax".

Troll Brau what of Arneson? Have anything planned to invoke his memory as well since you've got something to scream 'Gygax'?

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-13, 01:17 AM

So something that looks completely mundane and normal but kills anything it touches.

If that's what the early editions spoke to you of, then sure. :smallbiggrin:

Troll Brau what of Arneson? Have anything planned to invoke his memory as well since you've got something to scream 'Gygax'?

Well, they died close to each other month wise and only a year apart, so that contest is more for both of them. The theme itself is "retro gaming" more or less, it's just that when I think early DnD, I think of Gygax. I know Dave was an important architect to the table top we all love, but his name is not as well known outside of the circles of diehard geeks and gamers.

Milo v3

2013-01-13, 06:07 AM

Okay. It took a while but I've done all the Patronages, class abilities, and listed the Spheres. Now I just have to do the Techniques.

Warpwolf16

2013-01-13, 01:06 PM

True enough Troll Brau, Arneson was indeed the architect of the original version of D&D and from then on he had a falling out with Gygax. Over time the conflict was resolved( love the OD&D and Blackmoor d20) and all was happy. Regardless I'm looking forward to that contest!

Also should have my submission up soon! Running it through the ARG race builder for balance issues.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-13, 02:08 PM

How do you guys feel about June or July being the month for the Once More, With Feeling! contest?

Milo v3

2013-01-13, 06:00 PM

How do you guys feel about June or July being the month for the Once More, With Feeling! contest?

Sounds fine.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-13, 11:43 PM

Woof.

You made a big entry this month, didn't you Milo? But what can I expect from our most dedicated contestant? :smallbiggrin:

In other news, my name change went through! Which means that the PGBC has completely evolved into it's new format. :smallsmile:

Milo v3

2013-01-13, 11:46 PM

You made a big entry this month, didn't you Milo? But what can I expect from our most dedicated contestant? :smallbiggrin:

:biggrin:
Whitetext

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-13, 11:52 PM

:biggrin:
Whitetext

What? You've been with us since Contest 1, even if you haven't entered or gotten to the voting circle every time. That's a claim no one else can make.

Milo v3

2013-01-15, 04:00 AM

Damn. I've made the scope to large. I don't think I'll be able to get all of it done. I'm going to remove some of the spheres, but I'm not sure how many.

How many spheres should I aim to complete by the end of this months competition? Answers other than all will be most useful.

EDIT: I accidently hit F5. And lost over three hours of work. :smallfrown:

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-15, 12:33 PM

Damn. I've made the scope to large. I don't think I'll be able to get all of it done. I'm going to remove some of the spheres, but I'm not sure how many.

How many spheres should I aim to complete by the end of this months competition? Answers other than all will be most useful.

Start with 3, then aim for 5. You just need enough to be judged on.

EDIT: I accidently hit F5. And lost over three hours of work. :smallfrown:

That sucks man. :smallfrown:

TheWombatOfDoom

2013-01-15, 02:13 PM

Troll...did your name change?

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-15, 02:22 PM

Troll...did your name change?

Maybe. :smallwink:

TheWombatOfDoom

2013-01-16, 10:14 AM

Maybe. :smallwink:

That's going to take some getting used to. Apparently they started taking name changes again?

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-16, 12:03 PM

That's going to take some getting used to. Apparently they started taking name changes again?

Yeah. Roland did a huge slew of them a few days ago; I've had my request in since August.

To be honest, my previous name was a bungle on my part. I'm trying to create a brand name for myself across the net and it didn't occur to me that having "Troll" in your name was a stupid move.

Anyways, let me go close the voting and declare our winners.

Razanir

2013-01-16, 07:24 PM

That's going to take some getting used to. Apparently they started taking name changes again?

My name also changed. I named this account Elimu Marimech after my longest running D&D character. A dromite wilder who lasted an entire 4 game sessions. (My group is really bad at scheduling, and a lot of campaigns die out quickly).

Since then, I'd chosen Razanir to be my name around the internet

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-16, 08:34 PM

Little late, but congratulations to all our winners this time around!

I'll be getting on the trophies in the next day or so and then I'll get on the rundowns. If you haven't entered yet, please think about submitting an entry. :smallwink:

DawnbringerSO

2013-01-17, 03:52 PM

As you can see, I have started an entry this month, but it will probably take me a while to finish.

I'd very much like to do both the pokemon entry and the spell entry too, so if one could be scheduled for next month, and the other for march, that would be great.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-17, 05:07 PM

I'd very much like to do both the pokemon entry and the spell entry too, so if one could be scheduled for next month, and the other for march, that would be great.

March is the Gygaxian/Arnesian Retro Gaming Contest, but there's an idea.

Do you guys object to Feb being the Pokemon contest and April being Spell it out?

DawnbringerSO

2013-01-18, 04:45 PM

March is the Gygaxian/Arnesian Retro Gaming Contest, but there's an idea.

Do you guys object to Feb being the Pokemon contest and April being Spell it out?

Why don't you tell us what we'd be doing for those competitions and then we decide what order we want the 2 in?

Milo v3

2013-01-18, 05:34 PM

Why don't you tell us what we'd be doing for those competitions and then we decide what order we want the 2 in?

He did..... :smallconfused:

DawnbringerSO

2013-01-18, 05:53 PM

He did..... :smallconfused:

He told us we'd be doing something with pokemon, he didn't tell us what that thing was.

Likewise, he told us that we'd be doing something related to a single spell, but not what that something was.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-18, 07:34 PM

He told us we'd be doing something with pokemon, he didn't tell us what that thing was.

Likewise, he told us that we'd be doing something related to a single spell, but not what that something was.

That is all there is to it.

Midwoka

2013-01-18, 08:55 PM

He told us we'd be doing something with pokemon, he didn't tell us what that thing was.

Homebrew, I Choose You! - In honor of the announcement of X and Y your entry is themed around one of the current 652 Pokemon of your choice.

Likewise, he told us that we'd be doing something related to a single spell, but not what that something was.

Spell it Out for Us - Your entry is themed around one spell of your choice.

In both cases, you choose the spell or pokemon. And since I only know of one PF GRab Bag Competition that didn't let you choose whether to make a base class, prestige class, monster, or race (the exception being A Day In The Life (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251404)), I'm pretty sure that decision will be left to each of us, too =)

And Troll Bräu: I approve of having those themes one after the other. But I don't approve of you not being Troll Bräu no mo'! You could at least keep the old avatar 'til you get a new one, so you're easier to recognize...

DawnbringerSO

2013-01-19, 12:19 PM

I don't mind which comes first, pokemon or spell it out.

How about in may though, the contest is dragon themed?

And maybe in June, just throwing an idea out here, but a futuristic or technology theme. You know, like a class that uses a mech to walk around in, or a class that combines magic with gnommish technology to engineer useful items like bow or gun based sentry towers.

4th number

2013-01-20, 12:49 PM

The Solarsworn now has actual content in the Solar Aspects. Critiques, balance issues, and suggestions for more Aspects is appreciated.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-20, 12:50 PM

And Troll Bräu: I approve of having those themes one after the other. But I don't approve of you not being Troll Bräu no mo'! You could at least keep the old avatar 'til you get a new one, so you're easier to recognize...

I've....actually lost the url for that image. :smallfrown:

I don't mind which comes first, pokemon or spell it out.

How about in may though, the contest is dragon themed?

Thought in the pot.

And maybe in June, just throwing an idea out here, but a futuristic or technology theme. You know, like a class that uses a mech to walk around in, or a class that combines magic with gnommish technology to engineer useful items like bow or gun based sentry towers.

June is going to be Once More, with Feeling!, but tha's another thought in the pot.

4th number

2013-01-20, 02:25 PM

Lots of ongoing edits in my entry. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14490020&postcount=7) Requests for input are all over, in red.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-20, 02:56 PM

Since it hasn't gotten one from me yet, here's a rundown for the Contractor! Mind you, it's a small one that's more a skim through than a comprehensive read, but that's just because of how big it is. :smallredface:

Let's start with grammar, per usual.

Fluff
I think you meant "protect" instead of "protection".
You should have a comma and not a semi-colon after "this power". The comma after "different direction" can be a semi-colon though.

Obeisance
I think you meant "contractor" instead of "contractors"

That's it for grammar for now.

This class is just great. It has a flavor to it that is a main stay of fantasy and uses unique mechanics that seem to be a blend of 3.5's Tome of Battle and Utterances to pull it off.
I'd like to see some sample Obseisances, since completing them gives you such a massive recuperation of your resources.
You do realize that someone who has an Angelic, Demonic and Infernal Patron can not be one themselves, right?
I really hope you post this class after the contest ends. It's not something you'll see come to full fruition in the confines of this contest.

4th number

2013-01-20, 03:40 PM

First draft done. Worked everything into the Solar Aspects, so their choices of five of those really define the character.

EDIT: Some of the Aspects are pretty powerful for an 8/10 spellcasting class. If 10th level had no spellcasting, would anyone take it (losing 9th level spells) in order to get another Aspect, do you think?

EDIT2: I think it's the right thing to keep the power level in check. New question: Are the capstone Solar Aspects (or the ability to add new ones that improve existing ones (and scale Aspect abilities by one more even number) equivalent to 9th-level spellcasting? Are they fun enough on their own that they don't have to be?

EDIT3: Or a capstone. Hmmm. Anyway, I made the change to the table and I'm modifying the text to reflect the new dead spellcasting level. This means that a Sorcerer definitely loses 9th-level spells if they take it all the way, assuming I wrote the entry requirements right.

4th number

2013-01-20, 06:00 PM

Build notes:

8th level is a natural breakpoint. A sorcerer can take it for 8 levels, getting 6/8 spellcasting and 2 second-tier Aspects. At 18th level they have 16th level sorcerer-ish casting. From there, they can go straight solarsworn for another even-numbered level and a capstone Aspect and the new class capstone (but no 9th-level spells). They can also take a PrC and advance EITHER spellcasting for 2 more levels, getting 9th-level sorc OR cleric spells.

A wizard has it easier. They can go wiz10/ss10 and get all 5 Aspects AND 1 level of 9th-level cleric spells. They can also use their 19th and 20th levels to advance cleric spells for 2 levels, OR do 1 and the other and get some arcane and some divine spells, which is probably the best choice.

Wizard 10 / Solarsworn 8 / PrC dip 1 (arcane) / PrC dip 1 (divine) is a powerful but non-traditional way to get 2 9s keyed off of Intelligence. You'll have 1-5th level wizard spells, 6-9th cleric, and 9th wizard. Since you can use your bonus slots on either casting (which I'll clarify in the text), this will be a hell of a thing. If you spend your 4 Aspects on buffs, you are almost totally SAD and extremely powerful.

Milo v3

2013-01-20, 06:28 PM

This class is just great. It has a flavor to it that is a main stay of fantasy and uses unique mechanics that seem to be a blend of 3.5's Tome of Battle and Utterances to pull it off.
And strangely I lack both ToB and ToM. :smalltongue:

I'd like to see some sample Obseisances, since completing them gives you such a massive recuperation of your resources.
I'll add that today.

You do realize that someone who has an Angelic, Demonic and Infernal Patron can not be one themselves, right?
I've now added the Subtypes to Apothesis.

I really hope you post this class after the contest ends. It's not something you'll see come to full fruition in the confines of this contest.
This class is going to be the Warlock replacement for my campaign so I'll be adding to it for a while.

4th number

2013-01-20, 09:20 PM

Deific Recommendation (Su): At 10th level, a solarsworn is among the most favored of mortals. Upon reaching 10th level and once per year thereafter, the solarsworn and his patron can perform a special ceremony that takes one hour and consumes a sacrifice worth at least 25,000 GP. The required sacrifice varies widely by god, and may be something specific.

This ceremony calls the personal attention of the patron's patron, a god. If it is successful, the solarsworn may ask the god for a boon, a specific favor with the full might of the deity's power behind it. The god may grant the favor outright, or they may require something else of the solarsworn to fulfill the request. A deity seldom refuses outright, though-- the most favored lieutenant of one of his mightiest angels is a mortal worth helping.

Those who commit to this class, losing three levels of spellcasting and maybe 9th level spells, get this flavorful wish effect that's like a quest in a box.

And nothing says "I'm 20th level" like a pop-in from a god after the harrowing completion of a delicate holy ritual while you and your angelic boss fight off daemonic hordes bent on killing a deity.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-21, 05:29 PM

Here's another run-down for the Solarsworn!

I'm going to skip grammar, if there was any, because this needs straight critiques on mechanics.

You borked the requirements to enter this class. Since this is flat Pathfinder it's not a royal mistake, but it's a big one none the less. For example, I can enter this class at level 7 with the following build: Fighter 2/Wizard 5. Take the Magical Knack trait and your caster level is 7. The feats Mage's Tattoo and Bloodmage Initiate bump this up to 9. Spend 30k for an Orange Ioun Stone and your caster level is now 10 at level 7, allowing you to enter the PrC 2 levels earlier than intended. And this is without doing any further shenanigans, like finding a low CR monster with a good amount of RHD to play around with. You want to make sure they can actually cast 5th level spells. Alternatively, require 3rd level spells and ranks in relevant skills or make a new feat that has a flat HD requirement if you want to open this to classes with slower spell progressions.
What exactly does Adaptation do?
Looking over the Solar Aspects....just...damn. They're good; really, really good. I'm going to suggest that this class only grants 5/10 casting, because I feel like what it nets you is good enough to counterbalance the loss of 8th and 9th level spells for the Tier 1 classes when you aren't playing in High Op games.

And that's it for now.

4th number

2013-01-21, 06:35 PM

Adaptation notes are just sidebars, for adapting the class to other flavors. I'll set them aside in spoilers to make it clear they're separate.

4th number

2013-01-22, 01:12 AM

Changes and notes:

There's no reason not to just specify 10th level as a requirement, right? I'm doing that, plus requiring 4th level spells, which allows in single-classed half casters.
Made spellcasting 6/10, so as to deny all full casters 9th level spells but not deny half casters their 6th levels. Casting is now at odd numbered levels plus 2nd level, so the second lost level is still at 6th when the better Aspects kick in.
Solars can't take away Aspects anymore, just their divine spellcasting.
Heavy edits in Divine Transformation. I'd love input on the part about resuming the arcane spellcasting progression.
Divine Transformation: At some levels, a solarsworn gains spells known and spells per day at the same spell level as he would if he advanced in his original arcane spellcasting class. However, all new spells learned are divine spells drawn from the Cleric/Oracle spell list. All spell slots gained by advancing in this class (not including bonus spell slots) must be used to prepare or cast spells learned in this way. These new divine spells are not subject to arcane spell failure and may be freely cast in armor. A solarsworn may use his bonus spells for either arcane or divine casting.

Learning and casting spells continue to function in the same way. The ability scores used to determine save DCs, maximum spell level, and bonus spells per day remain unchanged. A solarsworn can still cast any of his arcane spells learned through his original arcane spellcasting class, using the lower-level spell slots that he gained through that class.

If a solarsworn later takes a prestige class that advances divine spellcasting, they continue the same spellcasting progression, gaining higher level spells and spell slots as though they gained additonal levels of solarsworn casting.

If a solarsworn later takes more levels in their original arcane spellcasting class or a prestige class that advances arcane casting, they resume their arcane spellcasting progression as though they had never gained solarsworn casting. Their solarsworn spells and spell slots continue to function and they can resume their divine spellcasting progression at a later time.

Design notes: If a character with a limited, fixed spell list (like the D&D 3.5 Beguiler or Warmage) becomes a solarsworn, the DM is encouraged to work with the player to develop a new spell list that fits the practical and thematic needs of the character. Normal Pathfinder arcane casters all have sufficiently extensive spell lists that granting access to the Cleric/Oracle list isn't a big leap in terms of versatility.

If a character has psionic manifesting or a similar class feature that advances in level like spellcasting, they might also be able to become a solarsworn, exchanging their normal capabilities for divine casting.
Minor changes throughout, fixing pronouns, removing red notes.

I think I've got the class in decent shape now. I'd love input on specific Aspects-- Are there any that are obviously mandatory? Any that will very seldom be chosen?

EDIT: The new advancement rules mean that a wizard can dip solarsworn 2 and get a handful of midlevel divine spell slots and one Aspect for the price of losing 2 levels of normal wizard progression. I think that's pretty much okay.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-22, 01:04 PM

4th number

2013-01-22, 02:14 PM

I'll give it a more thorough look over later today (when I'm more awake and all), but for now I'll suggest kicking the even level casting prog down to either 4th or 6th level. We want to discourage dipping, not make it attractive.

I'm going to modify some more easy Aspects to get a power bump at 6th to improve stickiness. Casting at 4th instead of 2nd is definitely an improvement: it means that you can't score an Aspect without losing casting.

EDIT: Almost everything now scales per three solarsworn levels, or gets a buff at 6th, or is attainable at 6th.

EDIT2: Removed the "in progress" tags. Mostly now looking for specific Aspect critiques (eesh, there are 32 of them, 10 of which are 6th+) and/or anything else I missed.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-22, 10:46 PM

Pathfinder (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/reignOfWinter) makes me weep manly joy guys.

I question whether sticking with Pathfinder through thick and thin, even with DnD Next on the horizon was the right thing to do and then they give us things like this (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8wbv?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-71-Rasputin-Must-Die) and I'm reminded why I stick with them.

4th number

2013-01-22, 11:16 PM

Paizo can get away with (awesome) things like that because they don't feel the same burden as WotC does when carrying the big "D&D" standard into battle.

DawnbringerSO

2013-01-27, 07:33 AM

Troll, could you please comment on what I've done so far for my entry?

4th number

2013-01-27, 07:43 AM

Troll, could you please comment on what I've done so far for my entry?

I can do a quick grammar etc rundown:

Suggest first sentence read: "A Pact Bound Warrior is a warrior who has made a pact with an entity or entities, whether they be spirits, demons, dragons, or something else, in order to gain powers." Lotta commas there anyway. Maybe 2 sentences?
Space after "Starting Gold:"
Missing the line for skill point per level (you just have 1st level)
The Pact Bound Warrior is proficient with all simple and martial weapons
You still have the "all other class features go here" note
Suggest Pact read: "Pact (Ex): At first level, you choose the type of entity you have made a pact with, and the reason why the pact was made. It could be as simple as advancing the cause of the chosen entities, or something more sinister, such as selling your soul to a devil or being the eyes and ears of a dragon. Always confer with your GM before deciding on the reason for a pact."
Suggest Pact Power read: "...Unless otherwise noted, activating a pact power is a standard action.
Suggest Final Pact Power read: "... The nature of these bonuses depends upon her chosen Pact."

Nothing serious, just details. :smallbiggrin:

4th number

2013-01-28, 02:50 AM

Changes to Solarsworn:

added bullet points to Aspects, making it way more readable
added a specific reference to Miracle in Deific Recommendation
fixed grammar

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-28, 06:04 PM

As asked, and since I have time, here's a run-down on the Pact Bound Warrior!

Looks like 4th tackled the grammar, so I'll jump right onto the mechanics of this class.

Evil Eyes should be a Su ability, not an Ex. Also, is the concentrated effect not supposed to give a save?
Painful Strike should be a swift action, not a free action.
Spear of Purity should probably be changed to key off character level since this class doesn't exactly have a caster level.
Holy Wings probably should be accessible by level 6 instead of 11. I feel it'd be too late by then.
Wings is given even later, so see my suggestion above.
Why is Breath Weapon given so late?
I'll need to sit down and plot it all out, but I'm worried that you don't have enough "all colors" powers in the Dragon Pact.
Why does Powerful Build's Awesome Blow only work with a hammer?
Overall, I think this class is pretty much decent and is the quintessential expectation for the theme. My only real issue is that your Pact Bound Warrior just has too many dead levels.

Aaaand done.

4th number

2013-01-28, 06:10 PM

Any chance I could get a rundown on the class? I'm mostly concerned with balancing the Aspects.

Tanuki Tales

2013-01-28, 06:23 PM

Any chance I could get a rundown on the class? I'm mostly concerned with balancing the Aspects.

The first suggestion I'll give you is spoiler the Aspect trees together so it's easier to read.

4th number

2013-01-29, 12:12 AM

The first suggestion I'll give you is spoiler the Aspect trees together so it's easier to read.

It is done, m'lord. :smalltongue:

DawnbringerSO

2013-01-29, 03:34 AM

Evil Eyes should be a Su ability, not an Ex. Also, is the concentrated effect not supposed to give a save?

Ok, and good catch, it was meant to allow a save.

Painful Strike should be a swift action, not a free action.

Done

Spear of Purity should probably be changed to key off character level since this class doesn't exactly have a caster level.

Holy Wings probably should be accessible by level 6 instead of 11. I feel it'd be too late by then.

Will lower level requirements, but not make it constant until later levels.

Wings is given even later, so see my suggestion above.

Why is Breath Weapon given so late?

That's what I thought was balanced, but if you think it would be balanced at lower levels, I can lower it.

I'll need to sit down and plot it all out, but I'm worried that you don't have enough "all colors" powers in the Dragon Pact.

There are I think 9 "all colours" powers in the Dragon Pact. And you only get 10 Pact Powers. I think 9 all colours should be enough.

Why does Powerful Build's Awesome Blow only work with a hammer?

Because I thought it would be pretty silly for a sword to to throw things 10 ft away. But I should change it to attack that deals bludgeoning damage.

Overall, I think this class is pretty much decent and is the quintessential expectation for the theme. My only real issue is that your Pact Bound Warrior just has too many dead levels.

I was thinking about that. Perhaps I should move pact power gains to every even level instead of every odd level. That way you gain a pact power, then a feat next level, so you get something each level.