Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

[Benly]

Man, it's been forever since I had a go at one of these things, but I got an idea and threw something together.

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry guys. My Comp Sci class and real life drama kind of ate me whole this last week.

And sorry for not noticing your post earlier Zha; that makes theme number 10.

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
Pun Parapalooza|Puns and Plays on Words
Ilogical Lexicone|Misspelled words
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction
Homebrewed Homebrews|Crafting in general
That's All Folks!|Cartoon physics
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels
A Call for a Hero|Dragons
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics[/table]

The first draft of deciding on next month's theme works as such: You get 5 votes and no more than 1 vote can go to any one entry concept. We'll keep voting open till 11:59 pm EST on the 26th and then cut this number in half.




I'll get onto doing last month's trophies and reading over this month's entries first chance I get.

[Deviston]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
Ilogical Lexicone|Misspelled words
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction[/table]


My Votes.

[SamBurke]

Third Law, To Go Boldly are my votes.

As a note, Comedy Physics is on there twice.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Cartoon physics is posted twice in your table, tanuki.

As for my votes:

Ilogical Lexicone
To Boldly Go
Worth a thousand words
Call of Chuthl-brew
Homebrewed Homebrews

[DawnbringerSO]

Third law
To boldy go
A call for a hero
That's all folks!
The Call of Cthul-brew

[Tanuki Tales]

Ok, that's what I get for trying to do anything requiring two brain cells after powering through some Comp Sci assignments. *face palm*

Can you give me a name for your silly theme idea Dawn?

[zhdarkstar]

That's All Folks
To Go Boldly
The Call of Cthul-brew
Worth a Thousand Words
Pun Parapalooza

[Tanuki Tales]

Pause the voting for a sec guys. We don't actually have a 10th theme. My school exhausted brain didn't register that I had not, in fact, missed Zha's suggestion.

[Deviston]

If you need a tenth, how about:

Every great patriot is named great for what they do in the field. They lose a limb in service of gods and country, or take down a mad wizards doomsday device with a sacrifice of their life. Or perhaps they aren't named famous. Perhaps their fame is only known to their handler... and their victims. These are the spies, the operatives. These are the men, women, and constructs that serve our country. But what about the little voice in their ear? Just on the other end of the major sending stone? Those folk we usually never hear of. They are the intelligence men. Information is provided, raw unusable data. They analyze it, sort it, prepare it into intelligence and brief their operatives. Sometimes information comes in that saves a spies life. The man on his mission hears his name in his ear and pauses, normally he just keeps moving but for some reason he paused. His handler, a male gnome named Gone, tells him about a new intel. A trap is laid in the intersection of this and that corridor.

"Silly man, took a good bit of "persuading" from the Eberronian nerve-stimulation ants we harvested, but he finally broke... they all break for me. Anyhow, it's large enough of a trap that your life will be ended, but not large enough to remove your corpse from existence. So this one you will need to deal with."

The little man was vicious. But he was effective, no one could argue that. The entire conversation took all of 13 seconds. Funny... thinking 13 seconds was all that stood between him and death. He looked around and his heart jumped into his throat. He fell backward toward the way he came sweating and panting and scrambling along the floor. He calmed down, and crawled back to where he finished his conversation with Gone. Fingers ran along the floor a half inch from where his toes were... fingers of spell and incantation.

If it wasn't for Gone. I would be.


I suggest the theme:

Behind the Scenes: Things left out of the story that makes a hero

[Tanuki Tales]

Behind the Scenes: Things left out of the story that makes a hero

Nice narrative. Can you give me an example of an entry for that theme though?

[SamBurke]

I think it'd be an interesting theme, but I have no idea what I'd do with it.

[DawnbringerSO]

I did suggest silly stuff before.

[Tanuki Tales]

I did suggest silly stuff before.

I know, and I asked for a name. :smalltongue:

[Deviston]

Example:

Class that specializes in illusion magic, creature that functions as a communications device (like a symbiont pairing that functions 2 way), a prestige that allows the player to give bennies to an ally, far scrying (to pass on info), a race that can a ethereal form for a time to scout ahead for a hero, or perhaps just a series of "better than normal" NPC classes! Kind of like... NPC.5 instead of as low as NPC and high as PC classes.

[DawnbringerSO]

I know, and I asked for a name. :smalltongue:

How about Munchkin Style?

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Pun Parapalooza|Puns and Plays on Words|0
Ilogical Lexicone|Misspelled words|0
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general|0
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction|0
Homebrewed Homebrews|Crafting in general|0
That's All Folks!|Cartoon physics|0
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|0
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|0
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|0
Munchkin Style|Silly concepts|0[/table]

I'm terribly sorry Deviston, but we're pressed for time. Keep those in mind for the next theme vote though, I'm interested in seeing them pan out.

Alright, 5 votes each folks and let's try to get all rounds down in the last 4 days before July. First round will be open till 11:59 pm EST on the 28th. Then we'll keep a day open for each subsequent round till we have a theme.

[Deviston]

Pressed for time? Mine was suggested at 4:30 AM, his came about 12 hours later, but uh... ok!

Anyhow, my votes are the same as before. and only 3 votes, I don't want my other two used. Can I do that?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Pun Parapalooza
To Boldly Go
Worth a thousand words
Call of Chuthl-brew
Homebrewed Homebrews

See previous votes.

[zhdarkstar]

That's All Folks
To Go Boldly
The Call of Cthul-brew
Worth a Thousand Words
Pun Parapalooza

[Tanuki Tales]

Pressed for time? Mine was suggested at 4:30 AM, his came about 12 hours later, but uh... ok!

His came ten days ago actually. He only just gave a name.

And yes, you need to use all 5 votes.

[SamBurke]

To Go Boldly
Third Law
Worth a Thousand Words
The Call of Cthul-brew
A Call for a Hero

[Deviston]

disregard my votes then, I don't see anything else worth voting for :/

[DawnbringerSO]

To boldly go
The third law
A call for a hero
Munchkin style
That's all folks!

[gr8artist]

Worth a Thousand Words
Third Law
Pun Parapalooza
Call of Cthul-brew
Call for a Hero

And, don't forget, there's always the idea of "dumping" votes. Wait till you can see a trend, vote for the 3 things you actually would like to play, then pick the two categories with the least votes for your 4th and 5th. This way, you spend all five votes, but only three of them really matter.
Now, it's obviously against the RAI, but it is a practical solution to the "I only see a few I'd like" conundrum.

[Deviston]

gr8artist, gr8wisdom

[SamBurke]

gr8artist, gr8wisdom

Yup! That's what I did!

[Tanuki Tales]

Yup! That's what I did!

I have zero issue against this.

Expect tallied votes in next post, I'm just working on a practice exam at the moment while my dinner cooks.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Pun Parapalooza|Puns and Plays on Words|3
Ilogical Lexicone|Misspelled words|1
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general|4
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction|5
Homebrewed Homebrews|Crafting in general|1
That's All Folks!|Cartoon physics|2
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|4
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|5
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|4
Munchkin Style|Silly concepts|1[/table]

Votes tallied to here. Deviston, I included your first three votes, so just let me know where you're dumping your other two.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, since I have the time till my Professor gets back to me, here's a run down on the Fossil Skeleton!

I don't see anything to speak of in concerns to grammar, spelling or any of that jazz, so let's crack on.

Do elemental spirits from the elemental plane of earth animate Fossil skeletons or are they just called upon to fuel the ritual or...?
How do you make a Fossil Skeleton exactly? What character level is required and does a specific spell produce the effect or...?
I wish dinosaur or megafauna or the like was a subtype so that the wording on templates like this was cleaner, but oh well.
Incremental CR adjustment is a bit of an odd duck to see. Why not just have it based on Hit Dice (i.e. 3 or less get +X, 4 or more get +X+Y)?
What are "undead senses" exactly?
Using an inequality sign is also something of an odd choice; why not "Tiny or smaller" or something to that effect?
What do you mean by the following excerpt?: "Extraordinary abilities based on the base creature’s metabolism become supernatural".
Since their Damage Reduction is named as sourced from their fossilized skeletal structure, wouldn't it being bypassed by Adamantine weapons be appropriate?
Why do they get a Dexterity bonus?
You do know that, by the way you worded the rules text, the template technically doesn't grant the +8 Charisma. As Charisma is a Mental Attribute after all.


And that's that for that particularly entry! Next up is the Geneticist!

I didn't see any thing of note concerning grammar and such, so moving on.


You do know that the last two levels of this class take a character into epic play, correct? Which Pathfinder technically doesn't have official rules for.
How exactly do you acquire a third companion? I thought that classes that granted Animal Companions or Familiars stack with other classes that give them as well.
Can someone please remind me if I've already made a judgement call concerning 3rd party Pathfinder material and this contest?

That's it for that one for now. I'll finish up real quick with the Primeval Protector since it's short and sweet and I believe the Seru Half-blood deserves a post by itself.


I really don't have much to say about it actually. The grammar and such is fine and the mechanics match the concept pretty well. I only wish that dire animals in general were mount options, since Pathfinder made dire animals explicitly be the prehistoric versions of the normal breeds.

[gr8artist]

Ok, so it seems we all procrastinated the crap out of this month's competition. But, alas, we finally have some submissions. So, here's my evaluations.

Fossil Skeleton
1. The 20% variable for the CR adjustment is weird. If I were you, I'd make it a static +2, or at least find the average HD of the majority of dinosaurs and make the CR adjustment based off that.
2. Turn resistance? I think that should be channel resistance for PF.
3. What abilities would exist that are based on metabolism, but not requiring fleshy parts? It might be better to list the specific abilities affected.
4. Attacks... I can't think of any attacks that require flesh and not a bony limb. Maybe some special attacks or qualities, like swallow whole, but the basic slam/gore/bite/claw will work just fine, and don't need a mention.
5. Senses. Do fossil skeletons lose scent?
Note: If it were me, I would lower the severity of the fossilize special attack, and increase it's frequency. For example, every successful hit could incur a dex penalty. When dex drops to 0, the victim becomes petrified. This makes it more a function of the creature, and less a rare and frightening gimmick. This is a personal opinion, without relevance to balance or my overall critique.
Result: I like it, it's cool. It seems like a slightly modified version of the skeleton template, for obvious reasons, which makes it fun to build encounters around. I would love to build an encounter with some of these, as well as this bad boy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-fossil), with maybe a necromancer and some caveman wights. All in all, a solid submission.
Seru Half-Blood
1. There's a typo in the alternate racial traits line.
2. Alternate class features: Druids/rangers don't get aberrations, do they?
Result: It's interesting, definitely not what I was thinking for the competition's theme. I like your Seru (saved the link to my shortcuts), and I can definitely see a half-blood serving as the keeper/guardian to them. The race is very interesting, which makes it hard to judge balance and such. All in all, probably the most interesting submission, but probably not my favorite.
Primeval Protector
1. The ancient protector progression is weird. It took me a moment to figure out that it was basically two bonuses, much like the monk's AC bonus.
2. I like Stone's Fury.
3. The mount list raises some small problems. I think many of those are not listed with typical druid AC growth stats, and getting them at full strength at 5th level would be OP as all get-out.
4. Smite/detect evil still function as normal? I would think there would be a change to smite/detect aberration, dragon, fae, or outsider instead. Some of the auras, also, might want to see a change. Immunity to age seems like a useful feature to add, as would a LoH to repair a broken weapon.
Note: I would like to see some spells added to/removed from the spell list, personally, but I know that this is kinda' a personal opinion and has no bearing on mechanics or balance.
Result: A strong contender all-around. We had a prehistoric campaign a while back, and I really like this, and probably would use this archetype if we ever return to that campaign. I'd like to see more changes to the class, though, but that's just me. Good job.
Also, my Geneticist is done and ready for critique, if we have the time.

[gr8artist]

Just saw Tanta's critique, so responding to that.

* You do know that the last two levels of this class take a character into epic play, correct? Which Pathfinder technically doesn't have official rules for.
* How exactly do you acquire a third companion? I thought that classes that granted Animal Companions or Familiars stack with other classes that give them as well.
* Can someone please remind me if I've already made a judgement call concerning 3rd party Pathfinder material and this contest?
1. No, the requirements can actually be achieved pretty early by some particular class combinations. The 12 ranks can actually be divided up between different skills, that's probably the confusion. Any way to clarify that?
(on a side note, I believe the earliest entry is alc 1/wiz or druid 3... getting you in at your fifth level.)
2. Packlord Druid comes to mind almost immediately. I'm also not sure if paladin mount is considered the same thing as animal companion or whatever. I don't know all the ways it might be possible, but the ability is listed there in case you figure out how to make it work.
3. I don't remember. I figure if the contest is about homebrewing stuff, then allowing 3rd party material that has probably been through more scrutiny than our homebrew would be fine. Another option would be to simply list the effects of that template, without referencing the template in particular, but that just sounds wonky. The optimum solution is to replace each instance of "functions as X template" with "gives the creature the following qualities: A, B, C, etc..." and just list them all out longhand. But, this was quicker, and we were short on time. In a walgreen's world, I'd have just made 3 lists of custom adjustments that you could apply, but using the existing templates was a quick and dirty solution.

Thanks.

[Deviston]

For a good judge of balance, I seem to remember an Eberron (3.5) race that was similar. Daelkyr Half-blood as i seem to remember it. They may seem a little similar.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just saw Tanta's critique, so responding to that.

1. No, the requirements can actually be achieved pretty early by some particular class combinations. The 12 ranks can actually be divided up between different skills, that's probably the confusion. Any way to clarify that?

Change it to 6 ranks in any two Knowledge skills? Or 4 in any three? Or what have you. I think just allowing 12 in any combination may be a little too loose.


(on a side note, I believe the earliest entry is alc 1/wiz or druid 3... getting you in at your fifth level.)

Actually, earliest entry is Alchemist 4 as it is worded now.


2. Packlord Druid comes to mind almost immediately. I'm also not sure if paladin mount is considered the same thing as animal companion or whatever. I don't know all the ways it might be possible, but the ability is listed there in case you figure out how to make it work.

Pack Lord is one of the few ways that come to mind. Then against, so is Alchemist/Wizard/Druid.


3. I don't remember. I figure if the contest is about homebrewing stuff, then allowing 3rd party material that has probably been through more scrutiny than our homebrew would be fine. Another option would be to simply list the effects of that template, without referencing the template in particular, but that just sounds wonky. The optimum solution is to replace each instance of "functions as X template" with "gives the creature the following qualities: A, B, C, etc..." and just list them all out longhand. But, this was quicker, and we were short on time. In a walgreen's world, I'd have just made 3 lists of custom adjustments that you could apply, but using the existing templates was a quick and dirty solution.

I'll gloss over this since we're so late in the contest and re-open the inquiry next month when we have the time to comb through the chat thread.


Thanks.

You're welcome!

[NikolaTesla]

Just a heads up that I will be posting a base class submission sometime tomorrow. The class name is Ancestral Warrior.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just a heads up that I will be posting a base class submission sometime tomorrow. The class name is Ancestral Warrior.

Well, keep in mind that the contest ends tomorrow at 11:59 pm EST.

[Deviston]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
Ilogical Lexicone|Misspelled words
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels
A Call for a Hero|Dragons[/table]

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general|0
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction|0
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|0
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|0
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|0[/table]

This round is just like the first, but you get 3 votes instead. Voting is open till 11:59 pm EST tonight.

[Deviston]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels
A Call for a Hero|Dragons[/table]


Edit: And yes I know these aren't on the list of what I voted for originally. I realized the idea I had for the two tech ones I had already posted a year or two ago and after a couple hour long brain farts I couldn't think of any more tech stuff.

[gr8artist]

I don't know if Alchemist 4 will qualify for the PrC. I'm not sure if the Tumor Familiar counts as a familiar for the purposes of the Improved Familiar feat, which is required for the PrC entry if you don't have an Animal Companion.
I'll edit the prereq's in a few to better reflect this.

[Tanuki Tales]

I don't know if Alchemist 4 will qualify for the PrC. I'm not sure if the Tumor Familiar counts as a familiar for the purposes of the Improved Familiar feat, which is required for the PrC entry if you don't have an Animal Companion.
I'll edit the prereq's in a few to better reflect this.


The tumor has all the abilities of the animal it resembles (for example, a batlike tumor can fly) and familiar abilities based on the alchemist’s caster level (though some familiar abilities may be useless to an alchemist). The tumor acts as the alchemist’s familiar whether attached or separated (providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on).

Relevant rules text.

[gr8artist]

Improved Familiar
This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.
Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below).
Benefit: When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed here are also available to you. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step

I'm not sure if the tumor familiar qualifies for this. I suppose you could qualify for it, and take the feat, but not get the benefit (since an elemental tumor would just be weird)

[Tanuki Tales]

Improved Familiar
This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.
Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below).
Benefit: When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed here are also available to you. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step

I'm not sure if the tumor familiar qualifies for this. I suppose you could qualify for it, and take the feat, but not get the benefit (since an elemental tumor would just be weird)

Nothing in that feat does not allow a tumor familiar to qualify mechanically.

And an elemental tumor is any more weird than turning into a "green rage monster", self-mummifying or becoming a rag doll?


Edit:

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general|0
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction|0
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|1
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|1
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|1[/table]

Tallied to here.

[gr8artist]

My votes...
Worth a Thousand Words
Call of Cthul-Brew
A Call for a Hero


And is an elemental tumor any more weird than turning into a "green rage monster", self-mummifying or becoming a rag doll?
You, sir, make an excellent point.
Either way, 5th level is the earliest entry

[DawnbringerSO]

Well, since I have the time till my Professor gets back to me, here's a run down on the Fossil Skeleton!

I don't see anything to speak of in concerns to grammar, spelling or any of that jazz, so let's crack on.

1. Do elemental spirits from the elemental plane of earth animate Fossil skeletons or are they just called upon to fuel the ritual or...?
2. How do you make a Fossil Skeleton exactly? What character level is required and does a specific spell produce the effect or...?
3. I wish dinosaur or megafauna or the like was a subtype so that the wording on templates like this was cleaner, but oh well.
4. Incremental CR adjustment is a bit of an odd duck to see. Why not just have it based on Hit Dice (i.e. 3 or less get +X, 4 or more get +X+Y)?
5. What are "undead senses" exactly?
6. Using an inequality sign is also something of an odd choice; why not "Tiny or smaller" or something to that effect?
7. What do you mean by the following excerpt?: "Extraordinary abilities based on the base creature’s metabolism become supernatural".
8. Since their Damage Reduction is named as sourced from their fossilized skeletal structure, wouldn't it being bypassed by Adamantine weapons be appropriate?
9. Why do they get a Dexterity bonus?
10. You do know that, by the way you worded the rules text, the template technically doesn't grant the +8 Charisma. As Charisma is a Mental Attribute after all.

And that's that for that particularly entry!

1. I'd say yes.
2. I've provided a spell that allows you to create fossil skeletons. It's high level because it has the added advantage of not being evil or creating evil creatures. I need to add clerics of the animal and maybe earth domain onto the list of those who can cast it.
3. I should probably reword the description anyway, as it's not only dinosaurs and megafauna that can be animated in this way.
4. I've changed it.
5. Darkvision.
6. Done.
7. Exactly what it says. Being skeletons, they no longer have a metabolism. Let's say a giant fossilized insect from the Paleozoic era was animated. One that could shoot acid from its mouth or was poisonous (or heck, even a poisonous dinosaur). That ability would become supernatural as the skeleton no longer has the metabolism to produce the poison or acid.
8. I suppose it would, though the template becomes a lot less threatening to someone with adamantine weapons.
9. Same reason skeletons do. Because they are skeletons and the loss of flesh makes them more maneouvreable.
10. Fixed

Thanks!

[DawnbringerSO]

Fossil Skeleton
1. The 20% variable for the CR adjustment is weird. If I were you, I'd make it a static +2, or at least find the average HD of the majority of dinosaurs and make the CR adjustment based off that.
2. Turn resistance? I think that should be channel resistance for PF.
3. What abilities would exist that are based on metabolism, but not requiring fleshy parts? It might be better to list the specific abilities affected.
4. Attacks... I can't think of any attacks that require flesh and not a bony limb. Maybe some special attacks or qualities, like swallow whole, but the basic slam/gore/bite/claw will work just fine, and don't need a mention.
5. Senses. Do fossil skeletons lose scent?
Note: If it were me, I would lower the severity of the fossilize special attack, and increase it's frequency. For example, every successful hit could incur a dex penalty. When dex drops to 0, the victim becomes petrified. This makes it more a function of the creature, and less a rare and frightening gimmick. This is a personal opinion, without relevance to balance or my overall critique.
Result: I like it, it's cool. It seems like a slightly modified version of the skeleton template, for obvious reasons, which makes it fun to build encounters around. I would love to build an encounter with some of these, as well as this bad boy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-fossil), with maybe a necromancer and some caveman wights. All in all, a solid submission.


1. Yeah, I've got rid of the 20% business.
2. Thanks for catching that. I'm just so used to it being turn resistance from 3.5.
3. Poison, to name the most obvious one. Acid spitting. I can't think of anymore at the moment, but I'm sure there will be more.
4. Tentacle attacks.
5. No


Thanks!

[Benly]

7. Exactly what it says. Being skeletons, they no longer have a metabolism. Let's say a giant fossilized insect from the Paleozoic era was animated. One that could shoot acid from its mouth or was poisonous (or heck, even a poisonous dinosaur). That ability would become supernatural as the skeleton no longer has the metabolism to produce the poison or acid.


It may be worth bearing in mind that normal skeletons will retain a venomous bite as an extraordinary rather than supernatural ability, despite not having any venom glands. ("It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks.")

[DawnbringerSO]

Third law
A call for a hero
To go boldy

[DawnbringerSO]

It may be worth bearing in mind that normal skeletons will retain a venomous bite as an extraordinary rather than supernatural ability, despite not having any venom glands. ("It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks.")

Right, so I should add that clause.

[Tanuki Tales]

1. I'd say yes.

Yes to which?


8. I suppose it would, though the template becomes a lot less threatening to someone with adamantine weapons.

It's still a pretty decent template and they do get a large boost to their hp stat.


9. Same reason skeletons do. Because they are skeletons and the loss of flesh makes them more maneouvreable.

Regular skeletons aren't fossilized though.



Thanks!

You're welcome.


{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general|1
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction|1
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|2
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|2
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|3[/table]

Tallied to here. And I'll keep this open through tonight. We'll just start the next contest a day late.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Boldly
Cthul-brew
Thousand

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Third Law|Magitech/Technology in general|1
To Go Boldly|Science Fiction|2
The Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|3
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|3
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|3[/table]

Tallied to here.

[zhdarkstar]

Thousand
Boldly
Third

[DawnbringerSO]

Yes to which?

Regular skeletons aren't fossilized though.



Yes to elemental spirits from the elemental plane of earth animate Fossil skeletons.

And that doesn't matter. They're more dexterous because they've lost their flesh.

[gr8artist]

I thought metabolism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism)includes poisons/breath attacks/etc.

But, then again, I hated biology.

[inuyasha]

cthul brew
thousand
hero

[Tanuki Tales]

Yes to elemental spirits from the elemental plane of earth animate Fossil skeletons.

Then shouldn't they be Constructs and not Undead?

[DawnbringerSO]

Then shouldn't they be Constructs and not Undead?

No :smallsmile:

[Tanuki Tales]

No :smallsmile:

I just can't think of any precedence for anything other than Negative or Positive energy animating an undead and when an elemental spirit is bound to animate something it has always been a construct to my recollection. *shrug*

[malonkey1]

Well, for me, Third Law is my first choice.
2nd, To Go Boldly
3rd, Call for a Hero

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|0
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|0[/table]

And it's time for the semi-finals and you get 1 vote this time around.

[zhdarkstar]

Thousand Words

[malonkey1]

Call for a Hero.

[SamBurke]

Call for a Hero.

[DawnbringerSO]

A call for a hero

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
Worth a Thousand Words|Manga/Graphic novels|1
A Call for a Hero|Dragons|3[/table]


Tesla, technically your entry is too late, but since we needed to push back the starting of this month's contest for this voting, I'll let it slide this time.

[NikolaTesla]

Tesla, technically your entry is too late, but since we needed to push back the starting of this month's contest for this voting, I'll let it slide this time.

Thanks Tanuki!

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry guys, last two days have been a bit weird.

I'll be posting the new contest (who's theme is Call of a Hero) and the voting thread shortly.

[SamBurke]

And I actually have an idea! Expect a solid two-poster from me this time... unless life finally catches up and slaps me around again. We'll see.

[DawnbringerSO]

If I create a true dragon, do I need to post a sample dragon?

[Tanuki Tales]

If I create a true dragon, do I need to post a sample dragon?

Since it's not a template technically, no. But it'd be a nice thing to see if you got the chance.

[Stake A Vamp]

so, I really can't find an image for the base class I am trying to make, is it required?

[Tanuki Tales]

so, I really can't find an image for the base class I am trying to make, is it required?

Not at all. Especially since it's turning into too much effort to properly use one these days.

[SamBurke]

Not at all. Especially since it's turning into too much effort to properly use one these days.

Dear goodness, yes.

[Stake A Vamp]

and the first entry is up!:biggrin:

[malonkey1]

and the first entry is up!:biggrin:

Followed by the second! I felt Alchemists needed a little more love, so I made a PrC for them specifically. Spontaneous arcanists (sorcerers, bards, summoners) can join, too, if they have a breath wepon, but they get hecka less out of it.

EDIT: Stake, I'll look at your class more closely in a PEACH sometime later. First glances look interesting.

[Milo v3]

Guessing I can't just make a PF Base Class conversion of my Disciple of the Noble Blood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231146) PRC. :smallbiggrin:

[Ancient Hippo]

So, I had planned to make an Alchemist archetype, but Malonkey's submission has so similar abilities than what I had in mind that I'll have to think of something else. :smallannoyed:

[malonkey1]

Oops, sorry bro. Good luck, man.

Stake: Here's your PEACH:




Dragonfire Adeptyes i know the name needs work any ideas are appreciated

How about Scalykind Champion?


Take my blade, my armour too, have my gold, I give it you. But yet still i do not fear thee, you can't take my soul from me.
-chorus of the song of dragonfire

Draconic ancestry is a powerful force. It drives many to adventure, grants sorcery, and sometimes leaves a mark on ones very soul. The Dragonfire Adept turns this spark into a roaring unquenchable inferno. Dragonfire Adepts can harness their ancestry to great effect in combat, sheathing their blade in flame, or whirling in a fury, cutting down their foes like wheat or even ushering their allies to ever greater feats.

this spark is especially common in adventurers, as this spark often drives people to unusual and adventurous lifestyles.



Role: Where a Dragonfire Adept truly shines is in melee, in the thick of the action

Makes sense.


Alignment: due to the dragon ancestry and the inherent passion required to maintain an inferno in ones soul, a Dragonfire Adept must maintain an extreme alignment (I.E. LG, CG, LE, CE)

Alright.


Hit Die: d10

Starting Gold: As fighter,

Class Skills
Appraise (Int) Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: (4+ Int modifier)

These all seem in order.


Good BAB, Good fort & will

Alright, that fits with the above.


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the CLASS NAME.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: What weapons and armor your class is proficient in the use of!

All other class features go here (Use the format shown directly below if you don't know what to do.)!

Hm.I think you forgot the proficiencies here. I assume they're proficient with simple and martial weapons, and at least medium armor?


Dragon Aspect (Su): Every Dragonfire Adept must choose an aspect of their draconic ancestors to pursue. this is an important choice, as many future abilities are dictated by this choice. the Dragonfire Adept has three choices, Glory, Passion, and Power.

Glory: The drive to become great and make a name for oneself is especially powerful in some Dragonfire Adepts. Dragonfire Adepts who choose this aspect gain the one use of the Challenge ability per day. Challenge is the same as smite evil in all respect except that the target need not be evil, and there is no damage bonus against evil outsiders, evil dragons and evil undead. The Challenge effect remains until the target of the Challenge is dead or the next time the Dragonfire Adept rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the Dragonfire Adept may use Challengeone additional time per day, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

Alright, not a bad idea.


Passion: sometimes the inherent primal power one feels as a Dragonfire Adept is especially strong. Dragonfire Adepts who choose this aspect gains the frenzy power. A Dragonfire Adept can call upon inner reserves of strength and ferocity, granting her additional combat prowess. Starting at 1st level, a Dragonfire Adept can Frenzy for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Constitution modifier. At each level after 1st, she can Frenzy for 2 additional rounds. Temporary increases to Constitution, such as those gained from Frenzy and spells like bear's endurance, do not increase the total number of rounds that a Dragonfire Adept can Frenzy per day. A Dragonfire Adept can enter Frenzy as a free action. The total number of rounds of Frenzy per day is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours do not need to be consecutive.
While in Frenzy, a Dragonfire Adept gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the Dragonfire Adept 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the Frenzy ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in Frenzy, a Dragonfire Adept cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
A Dragonfire Adept can end her Frenzy as a free action and is fatigued after Frenzy for a number of rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds spent in the Frenzy. A Dragonfire Adept cannot enter a new Frenzy while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter Frenzy multiple times during a single encounter or combat. If a Dragonfire Adept falls unconscious, her Frenzy immediately ends, placing her in peril of death

Alright, so basically barbarian rage? Could I apply rage powers from the Barbarian class in this frenzy


power: sometimes the inherent magic of dragons shows itself in a Dragonfire Adept. a Dragonfire Adept who chooses this aspect gains an arcane pool, as the magus ability of the same name.

Okay. Seems reasonable.


Aspect Ability (Su,): at sixth twelfth and eighteenth level the Dragonfire Adept gains an ability based on their Aspect

Glory:
level 6: you gain leadership as a bonus feat, or if you already possess it, you gain a permanent +2 bonus to your leadership score
level 12: you gain both an aura of courage and an aura of resolve, as the paladin abilities of the same name
level 18: you gain an aura of Righteousness as per the paladin ability of the same name, with the exception that you gain DR 5/+4

Passion:
level 6: your Dragonfire Adept levels count as levels of fighter for the purposes of Qualifying for fighter-only feats
level 12:At 12th level, when a Passion aspect Dragonfie Adept enters Frenzy, the morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution increases to +6 and the morale bonus on her Will saves increases to +3
Level 18: at level 18, a Dragonfire Adept is no longer fatigued after a frenzy

Power:
level 6: you may choose any second level magus spell, and cast it 2/day as a spell-like ability, using your class level as your caster level
level 12: you may choose any fifth level magus spell, and cast it 2/day as a spell-like ability, using your class level as your caster level
level 18:you may choose any eighth level magus spell, and cast it 2/day as a spell-like ability, using your class level as your caster level

I don't see any balance issues, but there's a growing concernhere that I'll mention at the end.


Aspect Paragon (Su): at Twentieth level, the Dragonfire Adept becomes the very embodiment of their Dragon Aspect.

Glory: your DR increases to 10/+5 and you gain a permanent +4 to your leadership score

Passion: while in frenzy, you gain DR 10/-

Power: your eighth level Spell like abilities become 3/day, your fifth and second level ability's become at will.

Well, I see no issues with the chassis or the class features, but, to me, it feels like you taped three separate classes together. I'd feel more comfortable with the class if you picked a main way to go, and offered some variation on that.

[Ancient Hippo]

Put my submission up. :smallsmile: I'd be grateful if someone finds the time to read it and tell me why it sucks.

[malonkey1]

Put my submission up. :smallsmile: I'd be grateful if someone finds the time to read it and tell me why it sucks.

It's actually not bad. I'm a little confused on the wording for Restricted Spellcasting. Is it, say "I have a Blue Dragon Wyrmblade, my fireball is a lightningball", or are you unable to cast non-electric energy spells. Also, if you were to have a force dragon Wyrmblade, would you have to use force spells?

Also, Tanuki Tales? Could you please udate the contest thread link in your sig?

[Ancient Hippo]

"I have a Blue Dragon Wyrmblade, my fireball is a lightningball"

This is correct. :smallsmile: The wyrmblade currently only works with chromatic or metallic dragons, none of which has the force energy type. I've made this more clear in the description of the ability. I plan to add some extra rules for different kinds of dragons if I have time, though.

[SamBurke]

My review: it doesn't add anything to the Magus, and it takes away quite a lot.

Added:

Ignore energy resistance! Yeah! To… only dragons?
Gain a wyrmblade, which seems to lack features. What does this do?
Energy Resistance. Nice.
Natural Armor bonus? Nice! … The bite attack is painful, though. 1d2? It could be 1d6, at least.
The metamagic ability is quite nice, but it's pretty late in the class…


Taken Away:

SPELL RECALL. This, alone, is one of the hugest problems. In my opinion, Spell Recall is my favorite part of the Magus.
Medium and Heavy armor.
Improved Spell Recall as well.
Spell-casting is restricted… it means that there's a double trap. If you chose a dragon that's got an uncommon weapon (Say, sonic), then you can deal great damage! But Resist energy and all the like are useless. It's… an interesting dynamic, I guess, and not terrible. Just interesting.


All in all, I don't think the archetype justifies itself. It's got a lot of potential, I'd just like to see it get a large buff.

[Ancient Hippo]

Thanks for the review! I've added some comments in the quote below.


My review: it doesn't add anything to the Magus, and it takes away quite a lot.

Added:

Ignore energy resistance! Yeah! To… only dragons?
This is mostly so that killing a dragon doesn't make you worse in killing that same kind of dragon. But remember that it applies to all creatures with the dragon type, not only dragons.
Gain a wyrmblade, which seems to lack features. What does this do?
It decides the energy type you're associated with.
Energy Resistance. Nice.
Natural Armor bonus? Nice! … The bite attack is painful, though. 1d2? It could be 1d6, at least.
You may be right. I think I'll keep the damage dice as it is, but allow it to have 1-1/2 str to damage at all times. Gives something nice to str-based magi.
The metamagic ability is quite nice, but it's pretty late in the class…


Taken Away:

SPELL RECALL. This, alone, is one of the hugest problems. In my opinion, Spell Recall is my favorite part of the Magus.
You're kind of right. I think I'll change the resistance to replace an arcana and add some damage-boosting ability to make up for all of the lost shocking grasps.
Medium and Heavy armor.
Improved Spell Recall as well.
I'd say that the ability that replaces this is even better in some ways, as it allows you to break the metamagic system. Maximized Heightened Persistent Disintegrate, anyone?
Spell-casting is restricted… it means that there's a double trap. If you chose a dragon that's got an uncommon weapon (Say, sonic), then you can deal great damage! But Resist energy and all the like are useless. It's… an interesting dynamic, I guess, and not terrible. Just interesting.


All in all, I don't think the archetype justifies itself. It's got a lot of potential, I'd just like to see it get a large buff.

The tweaks shall wait for tomorrow, though... I'm too tired. :smallbiggrin:

[Tanuki Tales]

Popping in for a quick second (just finished a grueling run of finishing my Term Project and dipping out for a night at the movies with family and friends) to remind folks to vote if they haven't yet.

And I think I fixed whatever was wrong with the links in my signature.

[Milo v3]

So..... Was that a yes or a no for the disciple of noble blood conversion?

[Benly]

I've posted my submission (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15569023&postcount=11). I decided to engage with dragons on a bit more of a symbolic level for this one. I'm interested in hearing feedback.

While I'm at it, a little feedback on the Dragonblood Chymist. I like the class on the whole, although I haven't evaluated the specific extract lists, but there are two rules nitpicks I have.

First: Since it's possible to qualify as a Chymist without Breath Weapon Bomb (via having an actual breath weapon) what, if anything, do Improved Breath Weapon Bomb and Greater Breath Weapon Bomb do in the case of a Dragonblood Chymist without that discovery?

Second: Dragonblood Breweries should probably either be renamed to Dragonblood Discoveries, or it should be made clear that they are treated as discoveries. There are feats and abilities that specifically affect discoveries, and as it stands dragonblood breweries are not compatible with them.

Other than those minor rules glitches, I like the general style of the class. 8/10 extract progression, reduced discoveries and full bomb prog seems about right for the benefits the class gives - maybe errs a little on the generous side, but not to a significant degree.

[malonkey1]

First: Since it's possible to qualify as a Chymist without Breath Weapon Bomb (via having an actual breath weapon) what, if anything, do Improved Breath Weapon Bomb and Greater Breath Weapon Bomb do in the case of a Dragonblood Chymist without that discovery?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRv5iZC4BGNoG0u9fB-kj43tDQRos7F9ZE275211JMlWKOuje8NZQ

It's intended specifically for alchemists with the Breath Weapon Bomb. I'm considering removing access via breath weapon, or changing it to affect natural breath weapons.


Second: Dragonblood Breweries should probably either be renamed to Dragonblood Discoveries, or it should be made clear that they are treated as discoveries. There are feats and abilities that specifically affect discoveries, and as it stands dragonblood breweries are not compatible with them.

Noted, and will correct.


Other than those minor rules glitches, I like the general style of the class. 8/10 extract progression, reduced discoveries and full bomb prog seems about right for the benefits the class gives - maybe errs a little on the generous side, but not to a significant degree.

I was intending to fall on the generous side, as I've seen some hate coming at the Alchemist, and wanted to give them some love. I was shooting for mid-to-high +1, maybe bordering on +2 tier.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, I have a surprise for everyone!

Since I've been so late with handing out last month's trophies, I put in the extra effort to use what I learned in my Comp Sci class to create a new style for the trophies. Hopefully they're of better quality than the previous ones and are to your guys' liking. :smallbiggrin:

[Benly]

I was intending to fall on the generous side, as I've seen some hate coming at the Alchemist, and wanted to give them some love. I was shooting for mid-to-high +1, maybe bordering on +2 tier.

Well, I'm a little finicky about what tiers mean so I'm not going to weigh in on that particularly. I don't think "a little generous" is a bad thing, though.

The problem in general with alchemist PrCs is that they have so many different things to advance and they're all important enough that just dropping one or more entirely is a huge drawback to a PrC. When I say "a little generous" basically I mean that I think you could've given fewer discoveries and gotten away with it or limited the list of discoveries they can learn through the PrC (especially with dragonblood breweries taking up the slack), but not necessarily that I think you should have, if that makes sense.

[malonkey1]

I get what you're saying.

[Stake A Vamp]

I fixd the concerns, and added a few things, overall, i still think it is balanced.

[Deviston]

Take my blade, my armour too, have my gold, I give it you. But yet still i do not fear thee, you can't take my soul from me.
-chorus of the song of Dragonfire

Lol, couldn't help but sing this in the tune of Firefly :p

Take the blood, of the gold, the blue red or the white so booold
I don't care, I don't fear thee, you can't take my soul from me.

[SamBurke]

Lol, couldn't help but sing this in the tune of Firefly :p

Take the blood, of the gold, the blue red or the white so booold
I don't care, I don't fear thee, you can't take my soul from me.

Same. :smallredface:

A lotta entries this month! I'm intimidated.

[Razanir]

Woo! Finally a contest for which I have a free month and a really cool idea! It's gonna be cool and have theme naming and everything! It'll also be fun, because I'm going off an alternate interpretation of "Dragon" :smallbiggrin: I would give hints, but the PrC quote makes it too obvious

[SamBurke]

Also, Tanuki, the new trophies look marvelous! It'll be in my sig in a sec.

[malonkey1]

Woo! Finally a contest for which I have a free month and a really cool idea! It's gonna be cool and have theme naming and everything! It'll also be fun, because I'm going off an alternate interpretation of "Dragon" :smallbiggrin: I would give hints, but the PrC quote makes it too obvious

Dragon in the TVTropes sense of a villain's right-hand man?

[SamBurke]

Dragon in the TVTropes sense of a villain's right-hand man?

Ooooh! A good thought.

[gr8artist]

I'm still deciding on what to do for this month.
Has everyone voted for last month's competition? If not, you need to.
Can we do a re-make/fix of an existing class, such as the "Dragon Disciple"?

[Razanir]

Dragon in the TVTropes sense of a villain's right-hand man?

Dragon Reborn, actually

[Stake A Vamp]

Lol, couldn't help but sing this in the tune of Firefly :p

Take the blood, of the gold, the blue red or the white so booold
I don't care, I don't fear thee, you can't take my soul from me.

what do you think I was listening to when i wrote that (actually it was the soundtrack to Dr. Horrible, but i was thinking of the Ballad Of Serenity)

[Tanuki Tales]

To answer the re-make questions:

You can re-imagine existing material, using it as inspiration for your entry, but you cannot do a "fix" or update something for Pathfinder.

[Tanuki Tales]

Since there's no time like the present, why not start deciding on next month's contest theme?

And since we have new folks hanging around and had new trophies, I'll also be doing this bit a little different:

Each person may suggest one contest theme for the next month. This continues until we have 16 theme concepts or until all active posters have given one. In the case of the latter occurring, each person may then suggest an additional 2 themes until we get to the 16 mark.
You all will go through four rounds of voting, having a number of votes equal to half the amount of concepts in that round (So 8, 4, 2 and 1). You cannot cast more than 1 vote for 1 concept.
The last concept standing is the theme for next month's contest.
You may suggest any theme that comes to mind, even previous concepts that didn't win their month's selection process, but you cannot suggest a theme previously done. Only June's theme may be a previously completed contest's theme.
As always, I will break any and all ties.

[Benly]

How about "The Wasteland" as a theme?

[Tanuki Tales]

How about "The Wasteland" as a theme?

And what would the theme entail exactly? Literal wastelands, some Mad Max thing or...?

[malonkey1]

Atavism: Themed around animalistic humanoids, be they lycanthropes, hybrids, or some other man-turned-beast.

[Razanir]

And what would the theme entail exactly? Literal wastelands, some Mad Max thing or...?

Aiel! I could make them into either a race or a Barbarian variant. (Sorry about all the WoT stuff. I'm reading through them for the first time)

My nomination: The Monomyth. Also known as the Hero's Journey (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHerosJourney), it's the path that many adventurers follow. Everywhere from the Original Trilogy of Star Wars, to Lord of the Rings, and even to Shrek, its passive influence permeates into many famous heroes' lives.

EDIT: And does anyone have advice for making Archetypes? I really want to include Lews Therin, but the more I think about it, the stranger it seems for a PrC feature. And since I like most of the Monk abilities, I'll probably just make the Dragon Warrior a Monk archetype

[gr8artist]

My submission will be A Thousand Words, themed around comics, manga, and graphic novels.

My submission will be some variant of monk. I'm working on a alternate class for monk (think ninja to the rogue) that will swap most of the monk's features out for more aggressive dragonny... stuff.
What I know so far...
No Wis to AC, it gets light armor prof. instead, and may use all of its abilities while wearing wearing light armor. Uses Cha for Ki. Gains proficiency with unarmed strikes.
No untyped AC bonus, instead gets elemental damage with unarmed and natural strikes.
No disease immunity, but gets a Shield bonus to AC when wearing gauntlets and/or bracers made from leather or dragonhide. Adds gauntlet/cestus base damage to his unarmed strikes (so 1d3 gauntlet w/ 1d6 UaS and 14 Str would be 1d6+1d3+2 damage)
Slower fast movement, and screw slow fall.
No Tongue of the Sun and Moon, it gets Tongue of the Dragon instead (breath attack via ki)
No self healing, gets natural armor via ki
And some more

[zhdarkstar]

I'm going to suggest That's All Folks again for some cartoon physics nonsense. Felix the Cat as an Alchemist archetype, maybe? Although I would personally handle creating a racial archetype for anthropomorphic duck wizards.

[Benly]

And what would the theme entail exactly? Literal wastelands, some Mad Max thing or...?

Sure, any of those. Literal wastelands, metaphorical wastelands, the sky's the limit as long as your theme is the wasteland.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'll submit one - Liberal Arts

Classes, monsters, and so on that are based around the arts - Artists, Musicians, Actors, Performers, Acrobats, Sciences and Writing. You can throw these ideas into the mix with other classes, like a reformat of the bard to incorporate the artistic or musical theme more, or have a class that crafts items, or a sculptor that makes "earth elementals". Perhaps its a caster that casts in prose, for an added bonus. Or a writer whose stories become reality. Anything goes!

[zhdarkstar]

I'll submit one - Liberal Arts

So this theme has no chance of using its class abilities to get a decent job? If this wins, I'm so making a class that has Underwater Basket Weaving as an ability.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

So this theme has no chance of using its class abilities to get a decent job? If this wins, I'm so making a class that has Underwater Basket Weaving as an ability.

Oh, that's awesome. I love it.

[SamBurke]

I'll go for "To Go Boldly" (Sci-Fi) and "Third Law" (MagiTech) again. Gotta see if my idea for these can FINALLY come out.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll go for "To Go Boldly" (Sci-Fi) and "Third Law" (MagiTech) again. Gotta see if my idea for these can FINALLY come out.

You only get to suggest one at the beginning Sam until everyone has suggested one; so which would you like more?

[SamBurke]

You only get to suggest one at the beginning Sam until everyone has suggested one; so which would you like more?
Third Law.

Also, I don't think I'll be entering this time around, but, I will be critiquing!

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, so this is the current list:


{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics
Liberal Arts|The Arts
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general

[/table]

[Tanuki Tales]

Want to spit ball something for a second:

Since mention was made about one month's contest being themed around building an encounter (which if I can get five people to get behind this, I'll let it get entered for voting from that point onward) and we've done one month where we did a special entry type for races, what about the concept of building a NPC using just material that's been submitted to this contest previously?

[Razanir]

Want to spit ball something for a second:

Since mention was made about one month's contest being themed around building an encounter (which if I can get five people to get behind this, I'll let it get entered for voting from that point onward) and we've done one month where we did a special entry type for races, what about the concept of building a NPC using just material that's been submitted to this contest previously?

I could promote an elf to Santa Claus! YES. That would most certainly be a fun theme.

[Tanuki Tales]

I could promote an elf to Santa Claus! YES. That would most certainly be a fun theme.

Alrighty.

Same deal as with the Encounter idea and I'll lay down precedent for this now:

Any paradigm for a contest that has not yet been attempted in the past may be suggested and included from that point onwards as part of the Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition as long as four other interested parties voice that they are in favor of its inclusion.


In plain English: You can suggest contest stuff we haven't done yet that's different from the normal archetype/base class/monster/prestige class/race/template set up. But you need to have four other folks say they want to do it and it still needs to win the theme voting period. And once one more type gets ratified in this way, I'll be changing how the theme voting for each month works so that you always need to specify what set up you want to use for that theme.

That way we could do Halloween inspired races, Christmas Encounters or New Year's NPCs.

[gr8artist]

So, from now on, we'll all be making the same type of entry? All monsters, or all base classes?

[Tanuki Tales]

So, from now on, we'll all be making the same type of entry? All monsters, or all base classes?

No. It means when we have a third type of set up suggested, you'll need to specify which set up your suggested theme is using. So far we have the standard one (archetype/base class/monster/prestige class/race/template) and race-centric (see A Day in the Life (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251404)).

[Dark.Revenant]

I see a conspicuous lack of Wilder prestige classes. And a conspicuous lack of a Dragon Disciple equivalent for psionics.

So I killed two birds with one stone: Dragonmind.

(Entry assumes that Psionics Unleashed (or Ultimate Psionics) is being used)

[Tanuki Tales]

And I found my ruling on 3rd party material and this contest and I'll stick to it:

As long as it's on either PSRD, it's allowable for this contest.

[Benly]

I see a conspicuous lack of Wilder prestige classes. And a conspicuous lack of a Dragon Disciple equivalent for psionics.

So I killed two birds with one stone: Dragonmind.

(Entry assumes that Psionics Unleashed (or Ultimate Psionics) is being used)

I like the class on the whole. Dragon Body Surge needs a duration, and the "non-dragon" requirement leads to oddities like half-dragons being disqualified from the dragon-themed class for being too draconic.

[malonkey1]

I like the class on the whole. Dragon Body Surge needs a duration, and the "non-dragon" requirement leads to oddities like half-dragons being disqualified from the dragon-themed class for being too draconic.

Well, if I read the fluff right, it's supposed to be a normal creature tapping psychic dragon heritage. If you are a psychic dragon, then tapping your heritage seems a bit redundant, dunnit?

[Dark.Revenant]

Whoops, derp, I forgot to mention that it lasts for 1 round. Fixed that.

Anyway the PrC is for people who are completely unrelated to dragons. You are NOT tapping into heritage; you're enraptured with dragons to the point where "mind over body" comes into effect. Psionics is weird like that.

[malonkey1]

Whoops, derp, I forgot to mention that it lasts for 1 round. Fixed that.

Anyway the PrC is for people who are completely unrelated to dragons. You are NOT tapping into heritage; you're enraptured with dragons to the point where "mind over body" comes into effect. Psionics is weird like that.

Oh, alright. That actually makes even more sense.

[SamBurke]

I fully support an Encounter-specific or NPC-specific contest.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I support it, but I'm kind of confused by it as is. :smallbiggrin:

[SamBurke]

I support it, but I'm kind of confused by it as is. :smallbiggrin:

The idea for the first is simple: you design an encounter (maybe with a map, I guess?), and place it up for people to critique.

The other one, you take class previously on this (preferably not your own, I'd guess), and make an NPC out of it!

[gr8artist]

So, we don't suggest a theme (manga, wasteland, evolution) WITH paradigm (must be a race, must be an encounter, etc.), we suggest a theme OR paradigm...?

[Tanuki Tales]

So, we don't suggest a theme (manga, wasteland, evolution) WITH paradigm (must be a race, must be an encounter, etc.), we suggest a theme OR paradigm...?

No, you suggest theme with paradigm/set up.

@Sam: The objective would be to use as much previously entered material as possible to build your NPC. It only has to have at least one piece of 'brew previously from this competition.

[SamBurke]

No, you suggest theme with paradigm/set up.

@Sam: The objective would be to use as much previously entered material as possible to build your NPC. It only has to have at least one piece of 'brew previously from this competition.

Gotcha. I think there are quite a few things I'd use...

[Tanuki Tales]

Gotcha. I think there are quite a few things I'd use...

Well, that's three.

Two more and we can start the new voting process next month.

Has everyone given a concept for this month, by the by?

[Stake A Vamp]

"Mad Man in a Magic Box" (Doctor Who/Torchwood/other Whoniverse)

[TheWombatOfDoom]

"Mad Man in a Magic Box" (Doctor Who/Torchwood/other Whoniverse)

:smalleek: Why have I not thought of this before?!

[SamBurke]

"Mad Man in a Magic Box" (Doctor Who/Torchwood/other Whoniverse)

Dear gosh.

That is beautiful.

[Stake A Vamp]

:smalleek: Why have I not thought of this before?!


Dear gosh.

That is beautiful.

thank you very much

if this is selected, every participant should get a trophy that says

"Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition XVIII: Just This Once, Everybody Wins!

[SamBurke]

Yes. Yes. So much of my yes.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics
Liberal Arts|The Arts
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse


[/table]

[Razanir]

"Mad Man in a Magic Box" (Doctor Who/Torchwood/other Whoniverse)


:smalleek: Why have I not thought of this before?!


Dear gosh.

That is beautiful.

Can we just declare a winner for next month's theme now?

[Tanuki Tales]

Can we just declare a winner for next month's theme now?

Two more agreements and I'll say yes.

[Razanir]

Two more agreements and I'll say yes.

We need two more people to agree!

[zhdarkstar]

Ehhh...I'm not much of a Whovian, so I'd probably sit this one out if we forego the voting process.

[tardisvalkyrie]

okay, I have been lurking for awhile, and I want to say

another vote for whoniverse! Dibs on designing Raxicoricofalipitorians (no Google there)

[Rassilon]

So, my IRL DM told me about this competition, and I had to create an account for this! (Thank you T.A.R.D.I.S.)

Another vote for (drumroll) Whoniverse, and I shall design the time lords in all their wisdom and glory! Allons-y!:cool:

[malonkey1]

So, my IRL DM told me about this competition, and I had to create an account for this! (Thank you T.A.R.D.I.S.)

Another vote for (drumroll) Whoniverse, and I shall design the time lords in all their wisdom and glory! Allons-y!:cool:

Maaaaaan. Dibs on the Cybermen, then.

[gr8artist]

My reviews...
Dragonfire Champion
1. Abilities are heavily loaded onto the even levels, leaving your odds kind of dead. In Pathfinder, this is no bueno.
2. Dragon Aspect lists 3 different categories than you have. Passion/Domination is the problem.
3. Challenge has the same name as a Cavalier feature, and functions almost identically. Why not just give him that ability? Also, the level one abilities seem much more important than the later ones. Can you choose to take a level one ability at level 6 or beyond?
4. Flame within needs more uses, especially if it's going to be dump stat focused.
5. There are some glitches with interaction between multiple aspects. Capstone for glory increases your DR... but what if you didn't take any glory abilities?
6. I dont' think Magi get 8th level spells.
Overall: Needs more work, more flavor, and more clarification. It could be great, but needs refinement first.

Dragonblood Chymist
1. Your saves are non-standard for a PrC. Good saves go 1/1/2/2/3/3/etc... Poor saves go 0/1/1/1/2/2/2/3/etc...
2. Bomb's text says level 2... I assume this is supposed to be level 1?
3. It would be nice to list the levels at which you gain bloodline spells/extracts, or at least list the spell level of these spells.
4. There's a typo in Discoveries.
5. Drakeblood bomb doesn't say what save DC is increased. It might also be nice to list HD in the age category, to save on math headaches.
6. Breath weapon extract is underpowered, borderline useless without massive int. Might I suggest a level bonus for the bomb = spell level of extract consumed (so lvl 2 extract would be 2 level increase and 1d6 extra damage) plus your int/cha modifier, whichever is higher? This class has some steep prereqs, and a 16th level ability needs to be a little stronger.
7. Dragon fury is way, way underpowered. A 20th level alchemist only gets 6th level extracts, so this psuedo-rage would only last 6 rounds, at the cost of a 6th level extract. This, is in no way worth it. And any lower level extract gets worse return, since you have to spend a standard action to enter this rage, and it can't viably be done in battle prep. And a rage is only +4 Str/Con... With a class focused on bombs, Str is probably a dump stat. Also, assuming Sor 8/Barb 2/DbC 10, you have only one rage power... hardly worth being concerned about.
8. I don't personally see the point in making the breweries separate from discoveries.
Overall: Looks like fun, and solidly built. Needs some clarification, balance attention, and probably some new abilities, but a good entry.

Wyrmbloodied
1. Draconic features is hardly worth the tradeoff. That bite deals damage as a small creature, and the AC bonus is rarely as good as a suit of sturdier armor. I would suggest increasing the bonus, so that his AC actually stays on par.
2. Does Carnage-powered magic use a higher level slot?
Overall: I really like this entry, but it has some balance issues that might need addressing. The changeover from one wyrmblade to another is troublesome, as you have to abandon all of your benefits prior to a fight with a dragon... suicide much? What abilities does the wyrmbloodied get when not bound to a weapon?

Five-Scale Initiate
1. What happens when you aren't a monk of the four winds, but you do have the elemental fist feat already?
2. Ki pool's current reading is tricky. If I have a ninja (cha + lvl) and monk (wis + lvl) ki pool pair already, and I take 1 level in this class, I now have double the normal amount of Ki. (assume lvl 4 monk/4 ninja: I would have the ki pool of a level 9 monk and a level 9 ninja)
3. I like it, because it works well with my submission. But I hate you, because you posted some abilities I was planning on using as well.
Overall: Good entry. Seems solid and well put together. Need to double check and make sure that there aren't any assumptions being written into the abilities (blue dragon using flurry attack bonus even though you don't need to be a monk). And I don't really hate you.

Dragonmind...
Unfortunately, I've never played with Psionics or learned how they work... so balance and technical opinion are moot.

[gr8artist]

...aaanndd on a side note, my submission for the Call of a Hero contest is now finished. Any reviews, critiques, questions, or concerns would be greatly appreciated.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, that's enough for it.

How many people are against it?

[zhdarkstar]

Alright, that's enough for it.

How many people are against it?

I'm against it. Like I said before, I'm not a Whovian by any stretch of the imagination so I'd just sit this one out.

[malonkey1]

Alright, Gr8, I've made a few changes.


I fixed the save progressions.
Fixed some typos, made some clarification.
Improved Breath Weapon Extract, decoupled it from Intelligence, made it raise the Reflex DC
Dragon Fury can now go into an infusion or extract, so it can be handed off to the party stabby guy.
I wanted to keep the Breweries separate from Discoveries so that you wouldn't have to choose between them or regular discoveries, and because it suited me.

[gr8artist]

I suppose I can work with Dr. Who, though most of the things I'd want to do would be items... I'd personally prefer going through the normal voting procedure, or doing two contests. If we do go for the good doctor, I'm probably rolling up some weeping angels.
The trick is that there's not a lot of class options for something Dr. Who themed... Plenty of races or creatures, but the beauty of DW races and species is the situations they are in, and the way their unique abilities work toward those situations. Sherlock Holmes, for example, wouldn't make a good theme.
Perhaps if we allowed artifacts and encounters for the special Dr. Who competition, to prevent the overwhelming flood of inevitable races/creatures.

[Benly]

Five-Scale Initiate
1. What happens when you aren't a monk of the four winds, but you do have the elemental fist feat already?

Nothing. If you have elemental fist before entering this class, either you're putting off the class entry for at least two levels after qualifying, you're a very specific and strange master of many styles build, or you're a monk of the four winds. I probably should give stunning fist if you don't have it but have elemental fist, I guess, it's a little tidier.


2. Ki pool's current reading is tricky. If I have a ninja (cha + lvl) and monk (wis + lvl) ki pool pair already, and I take 1 level in this class, I now have double the normal amount of Ki. (assume lvl 4 monk/4 ninja: I would have the ki pool of a level 9 monk and a level 9 ninja)

Good catch! Fixed so that class levels stack with classes that grant ki pool but does not force them to stack with each other. I don't mind throwing a little bonus to someone who goes all-in on the class with that weird entry, even if it wasn't intentional, but you're right that it would be excessive as a dip.


3. I like it, because it works well with my submission. But I hate you, because you posted some abilities I was planning on using as well.
Overall: Good entry. Seems solid and well put together. Need to double check and make sure that there aren't any assumptions being written into the abilities (blue dragon using flurry attack bonus even though you don't need to be a monk). And I don't really hate you.

Noted on the bit with Blue Heavens Stance, fixed to "if she has the flurry of blows ability". I do like the idea of entering the Five-Scaled Initiate via your Dragonclaw Monk; if we were releasing them as part of the same sourcebook I'd make FSI advance some DCM abilities and particularly have dragon stances modify your ki strike element.


Oh, and about the Dr. Who contest: if that's what you guys want to do then go hog wild, but I'm probably going to have to sit it out. I've watched maybe two or three Dr. Who stories and none of the new ones.

[Tanuki Tales]

That's two folks against it and one who'd do it if they had to.

5/8 is a technical majority, but I don't believe it is enough of one to forgo the voting process.

I believe everyone has given a theme concept, so I'm moving to the next step. You can each now suggest two additional theme concepts.

[malonkey1]

Alright, I suggest "SCIENCE!!", whose title is fairly self-explanatory, basically science-themed classes, races, PrCs, etc., and "Mis-Spelled", classes and so on based on typos. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/Incentives.html), (scroll down to series two).

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics
Liberal Arts|The Arts
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse
SCIENCE!!|Science
Mis-Spelled|Typos


[/table]

That's 10. 6 more till we start voting.

[gr8artist]

I'll pitch Call of Cthul-Brew in again. My girlfriend is a horror nut, and she might enjoy rolling something up. It would, again, be anything horror related.
And I'd also like to add They're All Grown Up. The theme would be childish concepts/characters/stories with a new, mature twist.
Entries could include Rumpelstilskin and his dark magic, buying and trading kids, or a monster from a Dr. Seuss book (thing one and thing two as fiends, anyone?). Wonderland would be easy to use.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics
Liberal Arts|The Arts
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse
SCIENCE!!|Science
Mis-Spelled|Typos
Call of Cthul-brew|Horror
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists


[/table]

That's 12.

[Stake A Vamp]

"Fire & Brimstone" The Lower Planes

"Greatest Weapon in History" Fear& fear effects

(Yes I am in an evil mood:smallamused:)

[Tanuki Tales]

"Fire & Brimstone" The Lower Planes

"Greatest Weapon in History" Fear& fear effects

(Yes I am in an evil mood:smallamused:)

While the former is alright, we already did a Fear based contest. I'm fine with putting Fear Itself up for vote again though (assuming folks would actually enter this time :smallfrown:).

[Benly]

How about "The Sharpest Edge": blades and/or edged weapons?

[malonkey1]

I feel like I should mention, Tanuki, when Gr8artist said "Cthul-Brew", I think he may have been referring to Lovecraftian-style horror, specifically.

[Tanuki Tales]

I feel like I should mention, Tanuki, when Gr8artist said "Cthul-Brew", I think he may have been referring to Lovecraftian-style horror, specifically.

Nope; he suggested the theme last month as well. I mean, if he wants to change it to being specifically Lovecraftian horror, that's fine.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'll pitch Call of Cthul-Brew in again. My girlfriend is a horror nut, and she might enjoy rolling something up. It would, again, be anything horror related.
And I'd also like to add They're All Grown Up. The theme would be childish concepts/characters/stories with a new, mature twist.
Entries could include Rumpelstilskin and his dark magic, buying and trading kids, or a monster from a Dr. Seuss book (thing one and thing two as fiends, anyone?). Wonderland would be easy to use.

I've got one that would be good for either one of these. Its an idea that I just can't help looking forward to brewing...so I hope one of these wins sometime soon.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics
Liberal Arts|The Arts
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse
SCIENCE!!|Science
Mis-Spelled|Typos
Call of Cthul-brew|Horror
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes
The Sharpest Edge|Blades and Edged weapons


[/table]

14.

[zhdarkstar]

How about "The Sharpest Edge": blades and/or edged weapons?

Or how about "Not the Sharpest Tool" for blunt weapons?

[gr8artist]

I feel like some of these could be combined. Sharpest/bluntest weapons could just become a "weapons and arms" theme. There are a lot of horror/evil/fear themes being mentioned... should we roll those in together?

[Tanuki Tales]

I feel like some of these could be combined. Sharpest/bluntest weapons could just become a "weapons and arms" theme. There are a lot of horror/evil/fear themes being mentioned... should we roll those in together?

Only one horror, yours, got mentioned and as I said, fear would just be Fear Itself II.

[Razanir]

Am I allowed to use the original versions of Grimm Fairy Tales for All Grown Up?

[DawnbringerSO]

I might as well submit Munchkin Style again.

[Tanuki Tales]

Am I allowed to use the original versions of Grimm Fairy Tales for All Grown Up?

Sure, why not?

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics
Liberal Arts|The Arts
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse
SCIENCE!!|Science
Mis-Spelled|Typos
Call of Cthul-brew|Horror
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes
The Sharpest Edge|Blades and Edged weapons
Munchkin Style| Silly things


[/table]

15

[TheWombatOfDoom]

how many options are we choosing from?

[Tanuki Tales]

how many options are we choosing from?

16.

That way we can evenly get down to 1 after 4 rounds of voting instead of ending up with some odd numbered rounds.

Also means we have a larger starting pool of varying concepts and fodder for next month's voting.

[zhdarkstar]

Or how about "Not the Sharpest Tool" for blunt weapons?

At first I came up with it as a joke, but now that I think about it I want to to formally suggest it.

[Tanuki Tales]

At first I came up with it as a joke, but now that I think about it I want to to formally suggest it.

I'm with gr8; the two are too similar to be in the same contest pool and would be better suited as an all around weapons category.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Wild at Heart - Druids, nature, animals, barbarians, magical creatures.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|0
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|0
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype|0
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general|0
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics|0
Liberal Arts|The Arts |0
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|0
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|0
SCIENCE!!|Science|0
Mis-Spelled|Typos|0
Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|0
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|0
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|0
The Sharpest Edge|Blades and Edged weapons|0
Munchkin Style| Silly things|0
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|0

[/table]

Well, that's 16! In this first round you get 8 votes, none of which can go towards the same entry. Voting will remain open until 11:59 pm on the 18th.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

A Thousand Words
Liberal Arts
Third Law
Mad Man in a Magic Box
Mis-Spelled Typos
Call of Cthul-brew
They're All Grown Up
Wild at Heart

[zhdarkstar]

That's all folks
A thousand words
Liberal Arts
They're All Grown Up
Sharpest Edge
Munchkin Style
Misspelled
Science

[SamBurke]

The Monomyth
Third Law
Wild at Heart
Atavism

Mad Man in a Magic Box
A Thousand Words
The Wasteland
Fire and Brimstone

[Stake A Vamp]

Third Law
The Monomyth
Wild at Heart
Atavism
call of Cthu-brew
The Wasteland
Mad Man in a Magic Box
Fire and Brimstone

[Rassilon]

the Monomyth
Atavism
Wild at Heart
They're All Grown Up
Sharpest Edge
Munchkin Style
Mad Man in a Magic Box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCHfVZIAZ6s)
Third Law

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|2
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|3
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype|3
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general|3
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics|1
Liberal Arts|The Arts |2
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|4
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|4
SCIENCE!!|Science|1
Mis-Spelled|Typos|2
Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|2
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|3
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|2
The Sharpest Edge|Blades and Edged weapons|2
Munchkin Style| Silly things|2
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|4

[/table]

Tallied to here.

And I'll watch that video once I've decided to stop boycotting anything past Journey's End. Which will be a long time coming since I'm only up to Jon Pertwee. I wish I could find the Day of the Daleks somewhere....I'm so sick of skipping serials because they were maliciously destroyed.

[malonkey1]

Monomyth
Mad Man in a Box
Atavism
Liberal Arts
Mis-Spelled
Fire and Brimstone
Munchkin Style
The Wasteland

[gr8artist]

The Wasteland
A Thousand Words
Call of Cthul-brew
They're All Grown Up
The Sharpest Edge (can we use a generic "weapons" category instead?)
Fire and Brimstone
Mad Man in a Magic Box
Wild at Heart

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|4
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|4
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype|4
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general|4
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics|1
Liberal Arts|The Arts |3
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|4
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|6
SCIENCE!!|Science|1
Mis-Spelled|Typos|3
Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|3
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|4
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|4
The Sharpest Edge|Blades and Edged weapons|3
Munchkin Style| Silly things|3
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|5

[/table]

Tallied to here.

And Gr8, we'll see if it wins.

[tardisvalkyrie]

Mad Man in a Magic Box
SCIENCE!!
Mis-Spelled
Call of Cthul-brew
They're All Grown Up
Fire and Brimstone
The Sharpest Edge
Munchkin Style

[DawnbringerSO]

Third law
Munchkin Style
Mad man in a magic box
Fire and Brimstone
They're all grown up
Wild at heart
Atavism
The wasteland

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|5
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|5
The Monomyth|The "Hero's Journey" archetype|4
A Thousand Words|Comics, Manga and Graphic Novels in general|4
That's All Folks!|Cartoon Physics|1
Liberal Arts|The Arts |3
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|5
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|8
SCIENCE!!|Science|2
Mis-Spelled|Typos|4
Call of Cthul-brew|Horror|4
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|6
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|6
The Sharpest Edge|Blades and Edged weapons|4
Munchkin Style| Silly things|5
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|6

[/table]

Tallied to here.

[Tanuki Tales]

Here are some critiques coming down the pipeline!

Dragonfire Champion

Grammar
There should be an apostrophe in "ones" in the first sentence of your class full.
"this" should be capitalized.
There should be a period at the end of the sentence in Role and I believe the comma should be a semicolon.
"due" should be capitalized and once again, "ones" requires an apostrophe. Both are in the Alignment section.
There is no need for the comma after Fighter in the Starting Gold section.
In fact, you should read through your entire entry. You are missing a lot of punctuation and there is a lot of lack of capitalization.


Comments
First thing I see when I look at this class is dead levels. Lots and lots of dead levels. That's bad game design when it comes to Pathfinder (and it was back in 3.5, but the designers thought otherwise).
You don't really specify how the selection of your Dragon Aspect works or if you can eventually get all 3.
The Domination Aspect is honestly lackluster compared to the other two aspects.
Flame Within is kind of strange to give a dragon based character. Not all dragons have fire as their element and why not just give them a breath weapon?
Giving Leadership as a bonus feat is flat broken. Nothing else to say about that.
DR X/+Y hasn't been a thing since 3.0 edition.
Aura of Command doesn't list if it gives a save or not, although it is pretty limited in scope.
All of the Aspect Paragon options are very lackluster as capstones. And please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see any real reason to take levels in this class. You did manage to make it not dippable, so there's that. I want to say this class is Tier 5ish, since it's equal to the Fighter at least and is better than the NPC classes except Adept, but its neither very versatile or powerful.


Dragonblood Chymist

Grammar
The following sentence is incomplete: 'These are unique discoveries available on ly Dragonblood Chymists."


Comments
This Prestige class is pretty well put together and rounded, so I don't have too much to say about it other than my next few comments. Good job.
You need to standardize the amount of dragon blood used by this PRC's class features and then attach a gold value to it. It leaves things far too much up to interpretation. Same goes for any other material components you added that lack a price.
Does Dragon Fury give you Rage powers as if you were a 20th level Barbarian or do you simply get to use any you already have?
I'd have Bahamut's Scales possibly also give some kind of universal energy resistance to. DR 10 stops mattering after level 7.


Wyrmbloodied

Grammar
Nothing specific to note here.


Comments
While I like the concept of this archetype, I honestly don't like how you went about doing it, which I'll go into detail over.
To start things off, Wyrmblade should be a Supernatural ability and not an Extraordinary. This class feature is where I started to dislike the archetype's execution because I feel like the archetype give a small suite of abilities that are nice but increase in power when the Magus finally kills a True Dragon in combat during the course of a campaign. It's something that should be a highlight of their story arc, not something shoe-horned into their backstory to justify their archetype.
Scale-Piercer should be Supernatural and is oddly named since it doesn't have to do with their AC at all. It's kind of a setting thing whether the dragon's scales are what confer their Energy Resistance/Immunity.
Draconic Features is incredibly weak for what they lose and when they gain it.
Carnage-Powered Magic just doesn't make sense. It doesn't synergize with the rest of the archetype or the concept.


Five-Scaled Initiate

Grammar
Nothing specific to note here.


Comments
Another pretty good Prestige Class; I love the fluff though and it's great to see some Monk love.
Since Elemental Fist is giving Bonus feats, shouldn't it be typeless? And I feel like it should give a flat bonus combat feat if they already have Elemental Fist and Stunning Fist.
So Red Fury Stance prevents movement for flanking and repositioning? I'd suggest imposing a limit of how far they can move away instead of any movement period.
The flight from the Blue Heavens Stance is labeled as Extraordinary, but does the Initiate grow wings?
I feel that Green Jungle Stance's auto-critical threat for only 1 Ki is probably overpowered, even if it's on a Monk's chassis. And you should mention the DC for the poison is based on the Initiate's level and such.
I wonder if some of the stance abilities really deserve the Supernatural tag.

[gr8artist]

No love for the Dragonclaw? lol

[Tanuki Tales]

No love for the Dragonclaw? lol

My girl got home before I even got onto Dragonmind. :smalltongue:

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, the last voting session has been closed, so congratulations to everyone who won!

Though since we always have so few entrants and so many trophies, we rarely have someone not getting something. :smalltongue:


And here are some more critiques!


Dragonmind

Grammar
Nothing specific to note here.

Comments
This is mostly a personal hangup of mine, but I feel like 2+Int mod skill ranks per level is just bad game design and too few skill points to even give an Intelligence centric class. Otherwise, I have nothing to say. This prestige class is pretty well put together and does exactly what it set out to do; excellent job.


Dragonclaw Monk

Grammar
Nothing specific to note here.


Comments
Wow. Just....Wow. This Archetype is absolutely amazing; it takes everything sucktastic about the monk and puts something nice in its place. Excellent work.
My only gripe is Flurry of Blows. Allowing movement at 18th level is severely too late when Flurry of Blows itself should have been a standard action that allows movement from its inception.


And that's it on the completed entries.

[DawnbringerSO]

Ok so i've essentially finished the pink dragon, minus a few bits and pieces that i may or may not think of. Just missing the fluff.

Comments are welcome

[Dark.Revenant]

This is mostly a personal hangup of mine, but I feel like 2+Int mod skill ranks per level is just bad game design and too few skill points to even give an Intelligence centric class.

Forgot about that because my own houserules put a stop to some of the problems that the skill system has. The Wilder does have 4+Int skill ranks though, so I'll go ahead and change Dragonmind to match that.

[Benly]

Since Elemental Fist is giving Bonus feats, shouldn't it be typeless? And I feel like it should give a flat bonus combat feat if they already have Elemental Fist and Stunning Fist.

Strangely, the Monk Of The Four Winds lists its Elemental Fist bonus-feat ability as Su, but you're right that it's standard practice for them to be typeless. I'll amend it to typeless for consistency's sake.
Originally this bonus was there to ensure that anyone entering the PrC would have the necessary feat to make its abilities work correctly; the bonus Stunning Fist if you already have Elemental Fist is to avoid punishing monks of the four winds for entering the PrC. There's no reasonable entry to the class that is forced to have both Elemental Fist and Stunning Fist, unless you can think of one I'm missing. Since the goal here is to avoid punishing certain entries rather than to reward extremely unusual ones, I feel like not giving the open bonus feat is fine.


So Red Fury Stance prevents movement for flanking and repositioning? I'd suggest imposing a limit of how far they can move away instead of any movement period.

It doesn't do that at all. Nothing about Red Fury stance prevents enemy movement, it just gives the FSI an attack of opportunity when they do it. It punishes enemy movement rather than preventing it.


The flight from the Blue Heavens Stance is labeled as Extraordinary, but does the Initiate grow wings?

No. They simply fly. Yes, as an extraordinary ability. High-level kung fu masters are pretty impressive guys, aren't they?


I feel that Green Jungle Stance's auto-critical threat for only 1 Ki is probably overpowered, even if it's on a Monk's chassis. And you should mention the DC for the poison is based on the Initiate's level and such.

The poison DC does not in fact scale to the Initiate's level - but if it did, it would tend to end up around dragon bile's DC 26, which (since the poison is dragon bile) it uses. Since this result is pretty close, flavorful, and involves less number-crunching, I decided to go with that method.


I wonder if some of the stance abilities really deserve the Supernatural tag.

I felt like it would be most consistent and flow the most easily in play for all abilities that require a ki point expenditure to be Su with the others being Ex.

[gr8artist]

Can anybody give me a crash course in Psionics so I can more accurately review the dragonmind? I've never touched the subject, and every time I suggest it, my fiance (a veteran DnD'er who played 2.0 with her uncles when she was in middle school) kinda' cringes and hisses like a woman possessed.

Also, regarding the dragonclaw monk, and your comment about flurry of blows...
I was making a monk archetype, not a standalone class. I was on the fence about it, but I thought it would fit better this way, and we'd have a solid point of reference for power balance (as opposed to custom classes, where everyone kinda' looks at it and begins comparing it to a myriad of other classes from various tiers.
I didn't want to give it more than the monk... In fact, I wanted to give it less. I just wanted it to be more specialized, fun, and on-par with some higher tier classes. I was aiming for tier 3, which (I believe) is a +2 bump from the monk's sad, sad, tier 5.
Flurrying with a full move seems like a big deal for the monk, and I feel that that alone would nearly bump it up a tier. So, I kinda' like having it near the capstone point. But, if anybody else agrees with Tanta, I'll see about changing it.
My first suggestion would be to make it incremental, probably tie it in with fast movement. So, for every +10 feet of fast movement, they can move 5 additional feet when flurrying. But, that seems unnecessarily mathematic. Perhaps allowing the monk to move half his normal movement as part of a flurry...
Opinions?

Also, how about instead of asking for a whole slew of suggestions every month, and getting mostly the same list, why not have one of the winning contestants choose a theme to fill in the hole? So, right now, we have 16 suggestions. When the voting for next september's theme begins, we will have 15 themes (as the 16th will become August's theme). Just have the july 3rd place winner add a theme, and use the 15 others that didn't quite make it for September's vote.

[Tanuki Tales]

Originally this bonus was there to ensure that anyone entering the PrC would have the necessary feat to make its abilities work correctly; the bonus Stunning Fist if you already have Elemental Fist is to avoid punishing monks of the four winds for entering the PrC. There's no reasonable entry to the class that is forced to have both Elemental Fist and Stunning Fist, unless you can think of one I'm missing. Since the goal here is to avoid punishing certain entries rather than to reward extremely unusual ones, I feel like not giving the open bonus feat is fine.

Fair enough.




It doesn't do that at all. Nothing about Red Fury stance prevents enemy movement, it just gives the FSI an attack of opportunity when they do it. It punishes enemy movement rather than preventing it.

I...wasn't talking about enemy movement. I was referencing this line: "This bonus disappears if she attacks a different enemy or voluntarily moves away from her current target."




No. They simply fly. Yes, as an extraordinary ability. High-level kung fu masters are pretty impressive guys, aren't they?

But...but how? :smalleek:




The poison DC does not in fact scale to the Initiate's level - but if it did, it would tend to end up around dragon bile's DC 26, which (since the poison is dragon bile) it uses. Since this result is pretty close, flavorful, and involves less number-crunching, I decided to go with that method.

I didn't know its starting DC was that high; carry on then.




I felt like it would be most consistent and flow the most easily in play for all abilities that require a ki point expenditure to be Su with the others being Ex.

I understand, it's just some of the abilities feel more Ex than Su, but it's not that important.

Edit:

@Gr8

Can anybody give me a crash course in Psionics so I can more accurately review the dragonmind? I've never touched the subject, and every time I suggest it, my fiance (a veteran DnD'er who played 2.0 with her uncles when she was in middle school) kinda' cringes and hisses like a woman possessed.

Her reaction is probably because Psionics was notoriously broken (one way or the other) until 3.5 edition.

As for a crash course....eh...I'm not that well versed. I know the subsystem enough to understand and critique material, but not to teach it.

And I know you were just making an archetype, but I personally don't see anything wrong with making it so that the Monk actually has synergy. Alternatively, just have it flat replace Flurry of Blows with a TWF chain style ability, like my Youxia base class does (speaking of which, I still have some updates to do on that class).

[Benly]

I...wasn't talking about enemy movement. I was referencing this line: "This bonus disappears if she attacks a different enemy or voluntarily moves away from her current target."

Oh, that! Moving around someone to flank them or following them as you bull rush or reposition them isn't "moving away", since you're not getting further from the target - every move you're taking is leaving you an equal distance (adjacent) or moving you closer (as you follow a bull rush).


But...but how? :smalleek:

Well, first you jump, and then you don't come down until you're good and ready. The way masters in kung fu movies fly around is probably a decent way to envision it, except that FSIs are going very fast. I guess DBZ flight if you're into that, too.

A level 20 monk can jump from orbit and land as lightly as a feather as an Ex ability, and the numbers they can get jumping from a standing start are pretty silly too. At some point you just have to admit that Hong Kong wirework is an Ex ability for monks, and Ex flight seems like an appropriate extension of that for an appropriately specialized monk.


I understand, it's just some of the abilities feel more Ex than Su, but it's not that important.

Red Fury and Black Marsh's active abilities could probably be Ex with no particular harm done, yeah, but I figure keeping it consistent is tidier.

[Tanuki Tales]

Oh, that! Moving around someone to flank them or following them as you bull rush or reposition them isn't "moving away", since you're not getting further from the target - every move you're taking is leaving you an equal distance (adjacent) or moving you closer (as you follow a bull rush).

The language is ambiguous enough though that I could easily see people trying to split hairs. A flat 10 foot movement limit might just end any speculation.




Well, first you jump, and then you don't come down until you're good and ready. The way masters in kung fu movies fly around is probably a decent way to envision it, except that FSIs are going very fast. I guess DBZ flight if you're into that, too.

DB flight would be Su though since they fly via Ki manipulation.

Did you envision it working like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12423830&postcount=1) (sixth level ability under the Qinggong class feature)?

[Benly]

The language is ambiguous enough though that I could easily see people trying to split hairs. A flat 10 foot movement limit might just end any speculation.


The problem with a movement limit is that it means you can't chase down a fleeing target, which is definitely contrary to the intended fighting style of Red Fury Stance. I've clarified the wording a bit, if that helps





DB flight would be Su though since they fly via Ki manipulation.

Did you envision it working like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12423830&postcount=1) (sixth level ability under the Qinggong class feature)?

If that's how you want to visualize it, sure. I just envision it as you fly, personally. You're a high master of the dragon style who has nearly reached the pinnacle of dragon martial arts, and you can fly like a dragon because of it.

[Dark.Revenant]

Can anybody give me a crash course in Psionics so I can more accurately review the dragonmind? I've never touched the subject, and every time I suggest it, my fiance (a veteran DnD'er who played 2.0 with her uncles when she was in middle school) kinda' cringes and hisses like a woman possessed.

She cringes because she suffered through several editions with a god-awful subsystem called Psionics. It only became playable (and, in fact, better-implemented than the entire magic system) in 3.5, and improved further still when Dreamscarred Press ported it to Pathfinder.

A few common terms:
Caster -> Manifester
Spells -> Powers
Spell Slots -> Power Points

In most cases, your manifester level is equal to the level in whatever psionic class you have. Let's use Wilder as an example. A fifth-level Wilder has a manifester level of 5, but his primary class feature (Wild Surge) allows him to momentarily raise his manifester level for any particular power he manifests. Wild Surge also pays for free augmentations, so it's an extremely powerful and useful ability. At level 5, his Wild Surge is at +2, so when surging, he has a manifester level of 7 and can pay 5 power points to get 7 power points' worth of effect.

Manifesters are all like Sorcerers in that they are all spontaneous casters with a limited amount of powers known. Psion has the most powers known; by level 5 he has 11 powers known other than talents (0-level powers) and they're within the levels 1st through 3rd. Wilder has the fewest; by level 5 he has 3 powers known within the levels 1st through 2nd. The Wilder gains power at the cost of versatility and a slightly delayed progression. You can gain more powers known through the expense of feats, at a rate of 1 power known per feat. Wilder also has a class feature called Surge Bond that gives one such bonus feat at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level, and the Wilder also has a favored class ability for humans granting a bonus power at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th; a human Student Wilder at level 5 would have 5 powers known, which is still far behind the Psion.

Each power has a cost in power points, which replaces the vancian system that magic uses. It's basically a mana bar, except it doesn't regenerate unless you sleep. Most powers can also be augmented, which grants them additional effects, increased damage, and higher save DCs. Augmenting powers requires additional power points to be spent. However, you can only spend up to your manifester level in power points on any particular power; if you are a 5th-level psion, you cannot spend any more than 5 power points on any particular power. This is a VERY important rule.

Many Wilders prefer to be blasters, so let's use Energy Ray as an example. It costs 1 power point and does 1d6+1 fire, 1d6 electricity (with a bonus to attack), 1d6+1 cold, or 1d6-1 sonic damage. Energy Ray has a single augment that increases the damage by 1 die per extra power point spent. If the Wilder surges and augments it up to the max, he pays 5 power points for 7 power points' worth of power, resulting in 7d6+7 fire damage or the equivalent for other elements. He subtracts 5 power points from the 39-or-so that he starts the day with, ending up with 34 power points left to use in the day.

I did the math of figuring out the longevity of psionic classes compared to their magical equivalents. Until about level 9, a smartly-played Psion lasts longer than a Specialist Wizard, but after that point the Specialist Wizard has a significant lead. By level 20, the difference is approximately 100 power points' worth. Wilder, if he plays smartly (casts primarily by surging and spending the maximum amount of power points), has just about the same longevity as a Sorcerer. If the Wilder does not use wild surge, his longevity is far worse than a Sorcerer's. A Psychic Warrior matches up blow-for-blow against a Magus, though a Magus using his arcane pool on refreshing spells will crush the Psychic Warrior in a contest of longevity.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|0
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|0
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|0
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|0
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|0
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|0
Munchkin Style| Silly things|0
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|0

[/table]

Alright, time for round two! This time you get 4 votes and voting will remain open until 11:59 pm on the 20th.


@Revenant: Don't forget that Psionics is significantly better balanced than Vancian casting.

[SamBurke]

Wasteland
Atavism
Third Law
Munchkin Style

[Dark.Revenant]

@Revenant: Don't forget that Psionics is significantly better balanced than Vancian casting.


It only became playable (and, in fact, better-implemented than the entire magic system) in 3.5, and improved further still when Dreamscarred Press ported it to Pathfinder.

And my votes are for:
The Wasteland
Third Law
They're All Grown Up
Fire and Brimstone

[malonkey1]

My old votes, where applicable, stand:


Mad Man in a Box
Atavism
Fire and Brimstone
Munchkin Style

[zhdarkstar]

Munchkin Style
They're All Grown Up
Third Law
Fire and Brimstone

[Stake A Vamp]

wild at heart.
Mad Man in a Magic Box
They're All Grown Up
Fire and Brimstone

[Rassilon]

Mad Man in a Magic Box (can i just vote for this 4X?)

(if i must cast other votes)
Fire and Brimstone
They're All Grown Up
the wastelands

[gr8artist]

The Wasteland
Mad Man in a Magic Box
They're All Grown Up
Fire and Brimstone


And thanks for the rundown. I'll be looking at the Dragonmind shortly, and likely editing the Dragonclaw to add in earlier flurry movement.

Dragonmind

1. Not sure what the Wilder manifests with... I'm assuming it's Cha, so there's no boost in power from your draconic stat boosts. Good call.
2. Dragon Surge basically says "it can be activated for free when you wild surge to manifest another power, or it can be activated as a swift action:, correct? If so, then it's worded well. I'm just not familiar with Psionics, obviously.
3. Dragon Talon Surge, as currently worded, would add damage to ranged attacks (such as manifested rays)... is it supposed to be only melee attacks? If it's supposed to be a boost to ranged attacks, can you give me an idea of the upside to this over a regular extra PP boost?
4. Dragon Breath Surge... wouldn't it be simpler to say 10+cha+1/2 manifester level? At what character levels will this deal extra damage? (assuming wilder 5/ dragonmind X). I'm unfamiliar with the "wild surge" bonus progression.
5. Dragon Body Surge should probably give a different type of bonus, as this won't work as well for large PC's or giants (which, I believe, tend to be psionic).
6. Dragon Wing Surge probably comes online a little too late. At level 14, flight should be a common mode of transportation for anything that specializes in fancy spells or powers. You may want to consider spreading the two offensive surges apart, throwing some of the handy passives in between. Especially if Dragon Breath allows you to make an attack while manifesting some kind of support power (essentially a free attack).
Overall: All in all, looks solid. Were I playing a wilder, I would likely consider this class, especially with a d12 HP and two good saves. It seems to stick to some pretty core stuff, not a lot of extravagant abilities, just the surges, which seem pretty straightforward. I like it, and it almost makes me want to try psionics.

Pinky
I just... I don't even... alright. That was priceless.
1. Never fought a dragon, or used one in a campaign, so I'm not sureif there's anything in the HD/Age cat info that might be problematic. This dragon seems like a pretty dangerous foe, although the small size to bubble bath makes it essentially only a nasty trap. Also interesting that it can't boil a pool large enough to bathe in.
2. With plenty of CC and disables, this dragon would be a lot more irritating than most, although I can't think of a situation in which someone would want to kill the damn thing.
Overall: Humorous, and I liked it, but it's just a little too quirky for my taste.

[Dark.Revenant]

Dragonmind
1. Not sure what the Wilder manifests with... I'm assuming it's Cha, so there's no boost in power from your draconic stat boosts. Good call.
2. Dragon Surge basically says "it can be activated for free when you wild surge to manifest another power, or it can be activated as a swift action:, correct? If so, then it's worded well. I'm just not familiar with Psionics, obviously.
3. Dragon Talon Surge, as currently worded, would add damage to ranged attacks (such as manifested rays)... is it supposed to be only melee attacks? If it's supposed to be a boost to ranged attacks, can you give me an idea of the upside to this over a regular extra PP boost?
4. Dragon Breath Surge... wouldn't it be simpler to say 10+cha+1/2 manifester level? At what character levels will this deal extra damage? (assuming wilder 5/ dragonmind X). I'm unfamiliar with the "wild surge" bonus progression.
5. Dragon Body Surge should probably give a different type of bonus, as this won't work as well for large PC's or giants (which, I believe, tend to be psionic).
6. Dragon Wing Surge probably comes online a little too late. At level 14, flight should be a common mode of transportation for anything that specializes in fancy spells or powers. You may want to consider spreading the two offensive surges apart, throwing some of the handy passives in between. Especially if Dragon Breath allows you to make an attack while manifesting some kind of support power (essentially a free attack).
Overall: All in all, looks solid. Were I playing a wilder, I would likely consider this class, especially with a d12 HP and two good saves. It seems to stick to some pretty core stuff, not a lot of extravagant abilities, just the surges, which seem pretty straightforward. I like it, and it almost makes me want to try psionics.

1. Yes, it's charisma.

2. Yes, that's correct.

3. It does work with ranged attacks, including spells and powers. It does not stack with Energy Ray because that deals energy damage. You would need something like Crystal Shard. Also, it doesn't cost anything if you're riding it off of a swift/move action power + wild surge. Even if you use the other method, it's still only 1 power point (for a 2d6 to 6d6 boost in damage), which is a very good deal.

4. Yes, it should say manifester level. Good catch. Anyway, wild surge is +1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 7th level, +4 at 11th level, +5 at 15th level, and +6 at 19th level.

5. Enhancement bonus is useless at this point (just get a couple belts and you've invalidated the whole thing); it's why Raging Wilder is good and Battle Wilder sucks. The only way non-item enhancement bonuses are useful is if you completely ban belt/headband-type items. Then there's Morale, which doesn't make thematic sense. Alchemical bonus won't work. Sacred/Profane is also out of the question. Competence doesn't work by RAW. Circumstance doesn't make sense. By process of elimination I went to Size bonus, because untyped bonuses to ability scores are highly exploitable. Also, the only way to get a Size bonus otherwise is to polymorph or enlarge self, which really ought not to stack with something that already affects your body in a similar fashion.

6. Moved around the abilities to account for this. Flight is now at level 12 (Dragonmind 7). I won't bring it any earlier because the Dragonmind's flight method is quite good (fast, good stats, and at-will).

[gr8artist]

I could see Morale, Insight, Competence bonuses, since what you're doing is kinda' a mind-over-body type thing.
Also, is there anything saying that we can't make new bonuses? I don't recall seeing in the rules anything that states that there are a finite number of bonus types. I suppose it would be just as exploitable as untyped, but it seems like there should be an "arcane" or "psionic" bonus you could use.

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|4
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|2
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|3
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|4
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|5
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|6
Munchkin Style| Silly things|3
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|1

[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[DawnbringerSO]

Pinky
I just... I don't even... alright. That was priceless.
1. Never fought a dragon, or used one in a campaign, so I'm not sureif there's anything in the HD/Age cat info that might be problematic. This dragon seems like a pretty dangerous foe, although the small size to bubble bath makes it essentially only a nasty trap. Also interesting that it can't boil a pool large enough to bathe in.
2. With plenty of CC and disables, this dragon would be a lot more irritating than most, although I can't think of a situation in which someone would want to kill the damn thing.
Overall: Humorous, and I liked it, but it's just a little too quirky for my taste.

1. Actually, like the corrupt water of the black dragon, the bubble bath ability is permanent, so he can indeed make a bath big enough to bathe in.

2. Well, you're not given much choice if the DM throws it against you :smallbiggrin:

Thanks!

[DawnbringerSO]

Third Law
Munchkin Style
Mad Man in a Magic Box
They're All Grown Up

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|4
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|2
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|4
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|5
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|6
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|6
Munchkin Style| Silly things|4
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|1

[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[tardisvalkyrie]

A Mad Man In A Magic Box
atavism
wild at heart
Fire And Brimstone

[Tanuki Tales]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme|Votes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)|4
Atavism|Feral/Bestial/Devolved/etc. Humanoids|3
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general|4
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse|6
They're All Grown Up|Children tales, icons and concepts with mature, adult twists|6
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes|7
Munchkin Style| Silly things|4
Wild at Heart|The Natural World|2

[/table]

Votes tallied to here.

[Benly]

Fire and Brimstone, Third Law, Wasteland, Atavism for me.

[Tanuki Tales]

We've reached page 50 everyone! Huzzah!

Please go to the new chat thread, located here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293472). Thank you.