Borderlands 2

[Salur]

Everyone's favorite Claptrap simulator is almost here! Also, there may be some guns.

There have been a smattering of thread about Borderlands 2 around here, but they all died out because (I assume) there wasn't much to say. Now that the release date is almost here, I figure it'd be helpful to have a thread to discuss the game/show off loot/set up parties, that kind of thing. Not sure how much we can do right now, but we can at least show off skill trees and that sort of thing.

I for one am really excited about this game; the first one was a ton of fun, and it looks like they're taking the criticisms people had of the first (gamespy multiplayer, not a great story, terrible ending) and really improving on them. And, of course, the loot looks even nicer than before, and shields and grenades are getting crazier, which is nice to see.

[Octopus Jack]

I managed to get a good few hours of game play on it at a pre-launch party (also with free beer and pizza) friday and thoroughly enjoyed it. I got to play as the Siren and Ninja and generally had a great time, good enough to pre-order and pre-load it on steam.

I am looking forward to the release which also coincides nicely with my last day of work before going back to uni..:smallbiggrin:

[factotum]

I have a feeling it's going to be a while before I get to play it, because it's coming out at the same time as Torchlight 2. I've ordered a physical disk version of Borderlands 2, whereas I have Torchlight 2 preloaded on Steam ready to play on Friday, so I'll be playing that game first...and I don't generally like to play multiple games at the same time, so B2 will have to wait for T2!

[Dhavaer]

Pre-ordered and taking leave on Friday to play. :smallbiggrin: Very much looking forward to playing a Cataclysm siren.

[Neon Knight]

Pre-orded and pre-loaded, ready to hit the ground running on Tuesday as a Commando. Probably going to go an even mix of Guerrilla and Survival trees.

[The-Mage-King]

Got my copy preloaded already. A friend of mine and I are actually thinking of doing a runthrough, but likely need more meatshields teammates. I'll be being Zer0, he'll be being the Siren.

[Triscuitable]

Since it's a time of diversity, I'm going to be playing Maya while my bait good friend will be Zer0.

[Kesnit]

I've got it pre-ordered, but for the 360. I don't think either my fiancee or I will be able to pick it up on release day, so I'm going to be waiting a few extra days.

I'll probably start with Zero, but am really looking forward to Gaige

[Lunix Vandal]

... am really looking forward to GaigeQFT.

My younger brother (with whom I'm splitting a 4-pack) is undecided between Axton and Zer0 (his main was Roland in B1, but Zer0 looks/is SO AWESOME), so I'll probably be playing Cataclysm-Maya or Rampage-Salvador at release.

[inexorabletruth]

I'm sad there's no more Phasewalking, but I get it. Lilith was hard core OP in the story mode.

I think the Phaselock is a little gimped, but I haven't played the game yet. Besides, I'm thinking about playing as Zero first anyway. My wife and I pre-ordered so she could play as the Mechro-mancer. We're super excited.

I'm disappointed that we couldn't afford the Super-Deluxe do-whatsit with all the fancy gamer swag, but c'est la vie.

[Triscuitable]

QFT.

My younger brother (with whom I'm splitting a 4-pack) is undecided between Axton and Zer0 (his main was Roland in B1, but Zer0 looks/is SO AWESOME), so I'll probably be playing Cataclysm-Maya or Rampage-Salvador at release.

Zer0 is a parody of brooding and mysterious anime/comic book anti-heroes. His hidden face and past, sword fighting, haiku recital, and ninja motif all scream "brooding!" He's intentionally awesome. He's also introduced as "Zer0 as... A number".

I've found good pairings of classes:

Axton and Maya for a turret in front of a Phaselock bubble.
Salvador and Maya for extra firepower on the Phaselock bubble.
Axton and Zer0 to draw enemies to the decoy moving towards a concealed turret.

[polity4life]

I'm surprised no one wants to play Salvador. Among my usual gaming group, I always end up playing the tanky character, the guy who can reliably stay up so any given fight doesn't go completely sideways. This guy fits the bill and he looks fun to play.

Is wielding two of any gun the "sexiest" looking ability, like magic, turrets, or a sword? No, but it's functionally going to be awesome. Ontop of that I will constantly flip the double bird at everything in game, so that's a visual win in my book. :smallsmile:

[DiscipleofBob]

No idea what I'm going to play yet, but I'm excited.

Still, I kind of wish there was a way to play skill trees from the first game. Not that the new ones won't be sweet, but I'll miss my god mode Roland with infinite ammo, health regen, and a Curaga Shotgun.

[Triscuitable]

Is wielding two of any gun the "sexiest" looking ability, like magic, turrets, or a sword? No, but it's functionally going to be awesome. Ontop of that I will constantly flip the double bird at everything in game, so that's a visual win in my book. :smallsmile:

If you ask me, here's how I plan on playing the game:


Maya (always been good with support and elementalists)
Salvador (more dakka)
Gaige (I'll be done with Salvy before she's out)
Axton (not really all that interesting; like Roland, he's just generic)
Zer0 (let's face it: EVERYONE IS GOING TO PLAY AS ZER0. He's brooding, he's quiet, and he's a freaking space-ninja)
Whatever else Gearbox puts out post-launch.

[MCerberus]

Maya and Lillith fist-bump in the launch trailer.

[Neon Knight]

I'm surprised no one wants to play Salvador. Among my usual gaming group, I always end up playing the tanky character, the guy who can reliably stay up so any given fight doesn't go completely sideways. This guy fits the bill and he looks fun to play.

Is wielding two of any gun the "sexiest" looking ability, like magic, turrets, or a sword? No, but it's functionally going to be awesome. Ontop of that I will constantly flip the double bird at everything in game, so that's a visual win in my book. :smallsmile:

My theory on that is that the Gunzerker's skill tree looks like it is the weakest at a glance. Many of his buffs and the like seem a bit smaller when compared to the kinds of numbers Axton and Zer0 generate. In particular, Axton has some crazy nice skills and a lot of versatility. The thing is, being able to dual-wield two Legendary guns and then get skill bonuses on both guns kind of makes up for that, but at a mere glance it isn't that apparent.

I'm playing Axton first simple because he has the most fire rate increases, and I want to see how fast I can get one Vladof going. After that, I'm going to play Salvador, then Zer0, then Gaige, and finally Maya. I think all the characters are interesting, though.

[Triscuitable]

Maya and Lillith fist-bump in the launch trailer.

Something like this. (Note: some blurry gibs)

http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z449/Rhys_Egner/bump.png

[MCerberus]

Kind of disappointed they gave all the team-leader stuff to the siren, immortal health-machine soldier was fun.

[Triscuitable]

Kind of disappointed they gave all the team-leader stuff to the siren, immortal health-machine soldier was fun.

She's got the support role. The Commando now focuses on extremely aggressive offense while the Gunzerker can not only tank, but also put out a lot of damage.

This video covers everything you'll need to know about how they improved the first game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEuDMtTPs3A&feature=player_detailpage) without spoiling anything, or making it seem like a grind.

[IonDragon]

So, who's looking for more on PC tonight?

[Triscuitable]

So, who's looking for more on PC tonight?

The-Mage-King and I. :smallbiggrin:

[IonDragon]

The-Mage-King and I. :smallbiggrin:

Steam names? I am TechnologyFetish

EDIT: /facepalm.

[DiscipleofBob]

Who else has seen the launch trailer?

Implied teamup with original Vault Hunters?

Possibly playable as future DLC?

Me being overly hopeful far too soon?

[Triscuitable]

Who else has seen the launch trailer?

Implied teamup with original Vault Hunters?

Possibly playable as future DLC?

Me being overly hopeful far too soon?

Yeah, you work with Roland first, and Mordecai's teamup is later on.

[Lunix Vandal]

My theory on that is that the Gunzerker's skill tree looks like it is the weakest at a glance. Many of his buffs and the like seem a bit smaller when compared to the kinds of numbers Axton and Zer0 generate. In particular, Axton has some crazy nice skills and a lot of versatility. The thing is, being able to dual-wield two Legendary guns and then get skill bonuses on both guns kind of makes up for that, but at a mere glance it isn't that apparent.And then you start playing around with the skill-tree builder, and realize that with 5/5 in Inconceivable and 5 Shots or 6, a Gunzerker can potentially milk two to eight hundred shots out of every hundred ammo, before taking into account Gunzerk's built-in ammo regen. Assuming the progression holds steady, with a class mod boosting you to 9/5 in one (or, cog forbid, BOTH) of those skills, as little as 5% of your shots will consume ammo when in critical condition, and far more will give it back (9/5 5 Shots by itself lets you fire each bullet nearly ten times over while active). Similarly, 5/5 Last Longer and Yippee Ki Yay will drastically extend your Gunzerk time -- in the release trailer, once Salvador enters Gunzerk in the fight versus the Bolivian Army (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BolivianArmyEnding), he's not going to leave it until either he or they are all dead.

[polity4life]

Moreover on Salvador, his health regen abilities are nuts and that's what I'm looking for. If I play around with the Brawn and Rampage trees right, I should be able to have a reduced cooldown Gunzerk that instantly fills my health, gives me a massive damage reduction buff, gives me good health regen, and lets the rest of the team fill their roles best without taking as much fire they otherwise would.

Truth be told, the Rampage tree does look really fun and I'm likely going to explore that too when I play. The Gun Lust tree looks a bit hit or miss but the roll over damage plus the possible 80% damage increase to the last bullet of any given magazine (buff adjusted for the size of the magazine) plus the added damage and crit of switching to a weapon plus the damage bonus of gunzerking with the same type of guns could make you a serious cannon in a literal sense. That takes a bit of setup that's hard to achieve with the auto-loader perk but it's out there.

[IonDragon]

Repost;
-- .NET Fix --
When you first start Borderlands 2 through Steam you will have a .NET repairer or installer. When it is finished it will say you need to restart your computer. Just click "RESTART LATER" and the BL2 splash screen will come up.
To prevent it from doing this on every start up through Steam you will want to go to your Steam Library, Right click on Borderlands 2, Click on the Local Files tab, Select Verify Integrity of Game Cache... It should find 1 file missing and fix that file...
You will not need to restart your computer through this entire process.... Hopefully this will stay near the top or get stickied for the wave of people having issues as they get home from work/school later today...

-- Alternative .NET Fix --
epsiblivion has posted a folder permissions issue that may very well help everyone...
I HAVE FOUND A FASTER WAY TO FIX THE .NET PROBLEM
on gearbox forum the guy says to go the your install folder and make it not read-only. do this by
going to C:\program files\steam\steamapps\common and right click on borderlands 2.
click on properties
uncheck read-only under attributes
click ok
now relaunch the game
.net should update one more time
game launches after without asking for restart.
quit game. relaunch. no .net update.
play BL2

-- OTHER ISSUES / COMMON QUESTIONS --
GreenManGaming (and maybe GameStop) pre orders are currently not receiving the pre-order keys. It is a well known issue at this time. Be patient and wait. Edit - It appears Pre Order bonuses are starting to appear for Steam players now.

Golden Keys appear to be 1 time use per account (not per character). When a player uses a key in a Co-op/Multiplayer game it appears to use other players keys as well should those players have a Golden Key.

GearBox Shift - When you sign up and confirm your email you will not receive an email with a Shift key. The next time you continue your game you will receive golden keys automatically. I received 3 but I'm seeing people with different numbers of keys...

If you have a Borderlands 1 save file on your computer you can get Loyalty Perks. These are additional customizations for the characters. No additional perks are known at this time.

[IonDragon]

My other post didn't bump the thread. In order to help people with the .net problem, see above.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Two quick questions, what does tipping Mad Moxxi do? Where is the Creature Slaughter Dome and how do I get to it?

[Erloas]

Well I only had about an hour to play yesterday. Played the gunzerker but didn't get to level 5 to get any of the special abilities yet. Didn't get to Roland yet, but I was heading that direction.

Feel of the first game is still there. But I haven't got to play with anyone else yet and obviously haven't had a chance to see much of the game or gameplay.
I'm playing on the PC and my Steam name is also Erloas there. I'm only on the L4D steam group so far.

[DiscipleofBob]

I started playing as Axton. Got to level 9, and although I still miss playing as Roland, Axton is doing a bang-up job so far. At least I have personal health regen at this point in the Survival Tree. My wife is playing Zer0 and is still trying to get use to using the Decepti0n ability effectively since she's used to sniping with Mordecai, but she's learning.

The plan for us is to go through a regular blind playthrough with Axton and Zer0 and then maybe later do a full playthrough and try to find all the hidden goodies with Salvador and Maya.

Which means if I play with others online, I'll probably be using either Maya or Zer0.

[Treayn]

I thought phaselock on Maya was going to be crap, but I've been pleasantly surprised. The cooldown more than makes up for it, 13 seconds now instead of nearly a minute for invisibility. Shame it doesn't work on bosses though last I heard.

Damnit Torchlight 2, why do you have to come out so soon, too many games!

[Rake21]

Two quick questions, what does tipping Mad Moxxi do? Where is the Creature Slaughter Dome and how do I get to it?

Not actually a spoiler, per-say. But I haven't finished that part yet, so I don't know if something happens with it.

There's an achievement for tipping her $10,000. It's called Sugar Daddy, I think.

[Kesnit]

I've started as Zer0 and Salvadore, but have not gotten very far with either. (Zer0 is level 6 and Salvadore is 4.) I had intended to start Maya and Axton tonight, but got caught up in playing Zer0. I am in love with the sniper rifle. I also really like Deception on Zer0, though I'm still getting the hang of it.

Borderlands 2 seems harder than 1. Of course, it's been so long since I started a brand new character in 1 that I could be misremembering how it was.

[Sith_Happens]

Went to the midnight release and got my game box signed by David Eddings, Anthony Burch, and a bunch of other devs. My life is complete.:smallbiggrin:

I was torn between Zer0 and Maya for my first character, but had to go with Zer0 after finding out that he sometimes (quite often so far, in fact) says "You've just set off my trap card!" when activating Decepti0n. My cousin who I'm playing through the game with went straight for Salvador (he loves him some dakka) and we make a pretty good team so far. I'm leaning towards the Bloodshed tree right now and I'm pretty sure he's going for Brawn, so I see many backstabs in my future.:smallamused:

[Triscuitable]

Let me make a list for choosing characters:

Do you want:

Dakka?


Salvador - MOOOOOOAAAAAR DAAAAAKKAAAAAA
Axton - DAKKA TURRET
Gaige - DAKKA ROBOT
Maya - Dakka ball of explosive dakka doom!
Zer0 - Little to no dakka.


Flashy Elements?


Maya - Maliwan guns are already sexy. She just makes them even more effective.
Salvador - MOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAR DAAAAAAAAKKKAAAAAAAA
Zer0 - Stealthily using your elemental guns to zap an enemy is very satisfying.
Axton - He doesn't really take advantage of elements beyond kabooms and such. I mean, explosions are fun, but fire bullets! C'mon!
Gaige - I don't even know what she does yet.


Lots of bullets?


Salvador and Jakobs/Vladof - Vladof guns only shoot faster as you fire. Jakobs fire faster as you mash the fire button. Gunzerk both, and it's quite chaotic.
Axton with double turrets - Dude, double turrets. No more needs to be said.
Gaige - Deathtrap must be able to do something gun-related.
Zer0 and Maya - They can shoot things, but bullet output isn't their specialty.


Flashy Skills?


Maya - Phaselock is quite the attention getter. It's a big, glowing orb of "haha, you can't move". Upgrades make it explode with fire and heal people!
Gaige - It's called the Deathtrap.
Axton - You know you want to quote the Engineer when you drop his turret.
Salvador - While awesome to the player, it just doesn't stand out among Phaselocks and rocket sentries.
Decepti0n - Spawn a Halo: Reach style hologram to distract foes and cloak for a few seconds to deal big damage safely. The fact that it's not flashy is the purpose.


Funny Characters?


Salvador - He's vocal, he's in a roid-rage, he cracks a lot of morbid(-ly hilarious) jokes, and one of his skills is "Sexual Tyrannosaurus".
Zer0 - He may not appear to be... Anything, but he's certainly got a lot of fun haikus to drop when using Decepti0n.
Axton - As far as I'm concerned, he talks more than Maya.
Maya - She's rather uninteresting, with bland skill names and more stubborn-than-funny taunts.
Gaige - This I can't even throw out a guess for.

[Burley]

I'm now level 10 with Zer0. I'm starting to get the hang of prioritizing with Decepti0n. It'll be way better, I think, when I get the Crit box highlighting skill, 'cause sniping can be a pain against blue blobs.

I think my only gripe is the removal of weapon proficiencies. I think the badass tokens are interesting, but a semi-random gain at a diminishing rate doesn't compare to a steady rise in your chosen gun. I really have no need, other than player preference, to combo sniper rifle with revolver, because I'll get more tokens if I vary my type usage regularly.

I do, however, love the difficulty increase. Enemies are faster, smarter and sneakier. I had a fire fight with three moola who had me fairly well pinned for a while, because the gave each other cover fire while reloading and advancing. That's some cut-throat AI. Maybe a fluke, but still a great fight.

In summation, my first 6 hours were spent on the edge of my sofa. This game is solid. Full of humor and challenge, and just so gosh darn beautiful.

[Dhavaer]

Yay! Installed, ready to play after dinner. Shiney new t-shirt, too.

Edit: Grr. My preorder bonuses haven't appeared. There's not even a Premier Club appearing in the DLC menu. Anyone know what to do? Google is not being a help.

[Krade]

About to got to work. Finally gonna get to play without a bed time later. So far I've been rocking Axton and Zer0. Axton more, though. I haven't even put a whole lot of points into the turret yet and I already love it a LOT more than Rolands.

Zer0's only level 7. He's the one I've been playing when my friends aren't on. Haven't really got any strong opinions about him yet.

[polity4life]

I'm at level 15 with my gunzerker and, although I'm having a fun time, I noticed a far steeper difficulty curve relative to the first game. Maybe it's that Salvador is entirely weapon dependent, maybe I had more rust than I thought, or maybe the game is objectively harder, but until I started landing some nice E-weapons and purples, I was dying with regularity. While that is only mildly annoying, what made dying so frequently frustrating was the fact that some enemy models and munitions fired don't mesh well.

For example, I had found two nice Jakobs assault rifles: one that shoots grenades that bounce once then explode and another that just fired explosive bullets. You can shoot directly at a target where the bounce is negated and the damage is just dealt for every mob type save for those that use the Nomad model. The bullets of either gun would bounce through or simply pass through the model without causing damage, regardless of shooting from the hip or down the sights. Whenever I tried any other gun I had no problems but my best guns were assault rifles, which brought me to frustration.

Thankfully I found better guns, which include a purple Jakobs assault rifle (the bouncy grenade one) mentioned above only it pumps out 175 per hit. And I found an obscenely powerful E-weapon SMG that mulches those mobs.

[Calemyr]

I'm at level 15 with my gunzerker and, although I'm having a fun time, I noticed a far steeper difficulty curve relative to the first game. Maybe it's that Salvador is entirely weapon dependent, maybe I had more rust than I thought, or maybe the game is objectively harder, but until I started landing some nice E-weapons and purples, I was dying with regularity. While that is only mildly annoying, what made dying so frequently frustrating was the fact that some enemy models and munitions fired don't mesh well.

For example, I had found two nice Jakobs assault rifles: one that shoots grenades that bounce once then explode and another that just fired explosive bullets. You can shoot directly at a target where the bounce is negated and the damage is just dealt for every mob type save for those that use the Nomad model. The bullets of either gun would bounce through or simply pass through the model without causing damage, regardless of shooting from the hip or down the sights. Whenever I tried any other gun I had no problems but my best guns were assault rifles, which brought me to frustration.

Thankfully I found better guns, which include a purple Jakobs assault rifle (the bouncy grenade one) mentioned above only it pumps out 175 per hit. And I found an obscenely powerful E-weapon SMG that mulches those mobs.

I think it is harder, and that it's particularly harder with an undergeared gunzerker. I also play Sal (and also am level 15), and I got thwomped with unpleasant regularity.

Then I found out that how the game keeps track of how many golden keys your account has is a mere number in a simple text file on the PC version. Unlimited access to as many purples as you care to sort through makes Salvatore a whole heck of a lot of fun because, as you said, he's particularly gear dependent.

[Erloas]

The game does seem a bit harder then the first. But I also wasn't sure if it was a case of comparing a low level character with no skills and poor gear to one with a lot of specialization in skills and gear.

Also since I was playing in multiplayer games I could see a decent amount of, what seemed like, lag related issues with hitting and damaging in some situations.

The raiders are better at dodging and taking cover and they don't seem to charge in as straightforwardly as they did before.
But I'm only level 7 (8 maybe) so far, so there is a lot more to see before I get a good feel for it.

[polity4life]

Another bee in my bonnet I have is world layout. Maybe I'm not recalling things correctly but it seems to me that Borderlands was far more open and less cluttered than Borderlands 2. I end up in corners surprisingly often, corners created by random world debris, and it's my fault for not noticing. However a question comes to mind that I feel should be asked: what were the developers thinking about how the player was going to move in this game?

Borderlands, at least the first, was predicated on shooting on the move almost all of the time. For almost all characters and builds, you were strafing or kiting everything. Rarely was it effective or desirable to stay in one place for too long. In Borderlands 2 that doesn't seem to be the case. The landscape has a lot of stuff in it: rocks, boxes, random junk, etc. It adds some flavor and gives you some cover when needed. The issue is that Borderlands isn't a cover shooter. There is no developed mechanic to accommodate combat while in a static position. The player is still supposed to keep moving and that is by design, from the enemies to the skill trees. For example, when a Badass melee monster is charging me, I'm not supposed to stay behind the crate and fire from cover. I'm supposed to shoot, move out of his way, and keep shooting as I avoid his attacks.

So it seems like Gearbox tried to have it both ways. The game plays as though combat and movement are made to be very dynamic but the landscapes say otherwise, that the player is meant to remain in some places to avoid fire. It feels like we have half of both and the sum of that doesn't equal the whole of either. This doesn't make for a broken or bad game or gaming experience. It's just an odd mix of implications about how the player should play.

Just some thoughts. I'm going to play this game to hell and back since it is very fun.

[Sholos]

Another bee in my bonnet I have is world layout. Maybe I'm not recalling things correctly but it seems to me that Borderlands was far more open and less cluttered than Borderlands 2. I end up in corners surprisingly often, corners created by random world debris, and it's my fault for not noticing. However a question comes to mind that I feel should be asked: what were the developers thinking about how the player was going to move in this game?

Borderlands, at least the first, was predicated on shooting on the move almost all of the time. For almost all characters and builds, you were strafing or kiting everything. Rarely was it effective or desirable to stay in one place for too long. In Borderlands 2 that doesn't seem to be the case. The landscape has a lot of stuff in it: rocks, boxes, random junk, etc. It adds some flavor and gives you some cover when needed. The issue is that Borderlands isn't a cover shooter. There is no developed mechanic to accommodate combat while in a static position. The player is still supposed to keep moving and that is by design, from the enemies to the skill trees. For example, when a Badass melee monster is charging me, I'm not supposed to stay behind the crate and fire from cover. I'm supposed to shoot, move out of his way, and keep shooting as I avoid his attacks.

So it seems like Gearbox tried to have it both ways. The game plays as though combat and movement are made to be very dynamic but the landscapes say otherwise, that the player is meant to remain in some places to avoid fire. It feels like we have half of both and the sum of that doesn't equal the whole of either. This doesn't make for a broken or bad game or gaming experience. It's just an odd mix of implications about how the player should play.

Just some thoughts. I'm going to play this game to hell and back since it is very fun.

Play it either way depending on what's appropriate. I've had time when I'll stay crouched behind cover popping up to take scoped sniper shots, and other times when I'm dancing around an enemy with an SMG throwing in melee strikes when I can. I actually like the fact that you can really play pretty much how you want.

[Jasdoif]

I think my only gripe is the removal of weapon proficiencies. I think the badass tokens are interesting, but a semi-random gain at a diminishing rate doesn't compare to a steady rise in your chosen gun. I really have no need, other than player preference, to combo sniper rifle with revolver, because I'll get more tokens if I vary my type usage regularly.I heartily disagree. Weapon proficiencies effectively penalized you for using multiple types of guns, since proficiency gained toward one gun type doesn't apply towards other gun types: you end up lower overall, and/or one of the types seriously lags behind in performance. I think player preference should be the primary reason behind your choice of weaponry. Plus, now you can more directly compare weapons of different types, instead of having to remember/calculate how proficiencies affect them.

My biggest gripe thus far...is that if there is some way to replay ECHO messages you've received, I haven't been able to find it. Granted, calling the replay menu in Borderlands "disorganized" is an understatement, but I miss the ability. Particularly when one message gets cut off by another one starting.


Borderlands, at least the first, was predicated on shooting on the move almost all of the time. For almost all characters and builds, you were strafing or kiting everything. Rarely was it effective or desirable to stay in one place for too long. In Borderlands 2 that doesn't seem to be the case. The landscape has a lot of stuff in it: rocks, boxes, random junk, etc. It adds some flavor and gives you some cover when needed. The issue is that Borderlands isn't a cover shooter. There is no developed mechanic to accommodate combat while in a static position. The player is still supposed to keep moving and that is by design, from the enemies to the skill trees. For example, when a Badass melee monster is charging me, I'm not supposed to stay behind the crate and fire from cover. I'm supposed to shoot, move out of his way, and keep shooting as I avoid his attacks.There's one key mechanic that supports cover: Shield recharge delay. You have a good point about a Badass melee charging at you, but a Badass Bruiser? It's slow, and can fill you full of bullets/rockets if you try falling back (I gained much experience in this :smalltongue: ). And in Borderlands 2, you can move (albeit slowly) while crippled, so getting downed behind cover doesn't outright prevent you from gaining a second wind like it used to.

[The_Jackal]

At what level do you unlock each character's signature ability? I believe I was promised turrets?

[polity4life]

At what level do you unlock each character's signature ability? I believe I was promised turrets?

Level 5 = Turret goodness. It goes by fast.

[The_Jackal]

Cool, thanks. What do you guys think, with regards to skill choices?

http://bit.ly/Pt6xOa

I like the idea of double turrets, plus a bonus to my own damage for having multiple turrets out. Also, is the Commando able to obtain/use sniper rifles?

[Jasdoif]

Also, is the Commando able to obtain/use sniper rifles?Yes. There are no class restrictions on what types of weapons can be equipped.

[MCerberus]

Rumor: Borderlands 2 has the most annoying gun in the world, made by and for trolls.

Is this true?

[Erloas]

I like the idea of double turrets, plus a bonus to my own damage for having multiple turrets out. Also, is the Commando able to obtain/use sniper rifles?
Everyone is able to use all types of weapons. There are a lot of weapons that are better for certain classes, but it all comes down to skills, and probably class mods (which I haven't seen yet, but I assume they are like in 1) might have bonuses to certain types of weapons. I also haven't seen a lot of elemental weapons yet, but at least in the first one they were more common on SMGs and pistols so skills that increased elemental damage or chance of procing, would be more often useful for the weapon types that more often have elemental damage. In the case of elemental it also had to do a lot with ROF, a sniper rifle might have a 30% chance of elemental proc, and an SMG might only have a 18% chance of proc but the SMG is going to shoot 5-10 bullets in the time the sniper rifle fires twice.

Ammo regen abilities also favor the higher ROF weapons because something that fires slowly isn't nearly as likely to run out of ammo anyway but an SMG or assault rifle can probably burn through your ammo in short order.

Also, I assume the purchased ammo increases are gone? I didn't notice them at the vendors, is it part of the badass-o-meter? I haven't looked into that too closely but that would seem like the most likely place for it to be.

[Douglas]

Also, I assume the purchased ammo increases are gone? I didn't notice them at the vendors, is it part of the badass-o-meter? I haven't looked into that too closely but that would seem like the most likely place for it to be.
I haven't gotten far enough in the game to see for myself, but what I've read elsewhere is that there's a black market in Sanctuary that sells ammo and backpack SDUs (and also general high-end gear), and its prices are all in a special substance called Eridium that is a somewhat uncommon loot drop.

[DiscipleofBob]

I haven't gotten far enough in the game to see for myself, but what I've read elsewhere is that there's a black market in Sanctuary that sells ammo and backpack SDUs (and also general high-end gear), and its prices are all in a special substance called Eridium that is a somewhat uncommon loot drop.

Crazy Earl has a black market shop that only takes Eridium and deals ammo upgrades and storage upgrades for increasing amounts of Eridium. You find him as a part of the quest line that introduces you to Sanctuary.

[Calemyr]

I haven't gotten far enough in the game to see for myself, but what I've read elsewhere is that there's a black market in Sanctuary that sells ammo and backpack SDUs (and also general high-end gear), and its prices are all in a special substance called Eridium that is a somewhat uncommon loot drop.

That is correct. You just have to spend Eridium, a rare currency, to buy them at Sanctuary. The cost increases by 4 for each rank. Eridium is easily gotten through the slot machines if you have the money, luck, and patience, but it's also dropped by bosses after about level 13.

[Salur]

Finally (if waiting one day can be considered "finally") got to put in some real time into BL2 yesterday, and managed to get to Sanctuary. I'm finding it harder to look at loot and have a feel for whether or not it's good without comparing it to my current stuff, but that will probably change as I get more familiar with the game. I do wish it told you sniper rifle zoom level though.

On the plus side, with my brother and myself both sniping-focused Zer0s, the areas seem more open than the original, at least as far as I remember. The first few bandit "towns" on the ice, for example.


Edit: Grr. My preorder bonuses haven't appeared. There's not even a Premier Club appearing in the DLC menu. Anyone know what to do? Google is not being a help.

Apologies if these are dumb questions, but: (assuming this is PC) where did you order the game from? You should have codes somewhere (either a receipt or e-mail, generally); did you activate those codes on steam?

[Kesnit]

I heartily disagree. Weapon proficiencies effectively penalized you for using multiple types of guns, since proficiency gained toward one gun type doesn't apply towards other gun types: you end up lower overall, and/or one of the types seriously lags behind in performance.

This. I found myself at a disadvantage (and struggling) at the final boss of 1, simply because I had not been using rocket launchers, and the weapons I had been using (mostly shotguns) did not have the range to get to the creature. I broke out a rocket launcher and used it anyway, but the battle would have been a lot shorter if I had leveled up that skill more.

[Dhavaer]

Apologies if these are dumb questions, but: (assuming this is PC) where did you order the game from? You should have codes somewhere (either a receipt or e-mail, generally); did you activate those codes on steam?

It was ordered from Electronics Boutique and came with two leaflets, one for the premium club and one for the arena. According to the instructions on the leaflets the DLC is linked to the main code on back of the manual. The leaflets do have their own codes, but they aren't compatible with Steam (too many characters).

[GloatingSwine]

This. I found myself at a disadvantage (and struggling) at the final boss of 1, simply because I had not been using rocket launchers, and the weapons I had been using (mostly shotguns) did not have the range to get to the creature. I broke out a rocket launcher and used it anyway, but the battle would have been a lot shorter if I had leveled up that skill more.

Rocket Launchers are terrible in the original Borderlands.

You should have been able to down the last boss with a decent shotty, it's not ideal for the job, but unless you're using one of the super low accuracy ones you should land most of your shots in the eye.

[Jasdoif]

Rocket Launchers are terrible in the original Borderlands.Pretty much. A triple/spread corrosive launcher can work well for repeatedly coating areas (or large vehicles) in acid so you can clear them faster with your other weapons, but other than that they simply don't have enough output to be worthwhile. And even then, you could probably get better results with a corrosive revolver instead.

[IonDragon]

Rumor: Borderlands 2 has the most annoying gun in the world, made by and for trolls.

Is this true?

Yes, and here (http://youtu.be/9oUKjv9Afck) it is.

[Triscuitable]

Yes, and here (http://youtu.be/9oUKjv9Afck) it is.

And I got it. And it's hilarious. I'm also at what is apparently the end of the game. Interesting. I don't recall exploring Lynchwood yet, and the Sheriff appears to be a minor character.

[Erloas]

Rocket Launchers are terrible in the original Borderlands.
Not really, they just weren't primary weapons. They were great for clearing out large groups of people, but not much with stronger individuals. It is a situational use weapon, not a primary weapon, but one to have with you in some situations. The sniper rifle is much the same way. I know my brother had great effect with his in Moxxi's when you are facing hordes of enemies. No other weapon is really capable of killing many people at once (with the exception of grenades) and the 100% elemental effect was useful too, especially for someone like Brick who didn't have much to increase elemental proc chances.

[Sith_Happens]

Yes, and here (http://youtu.be/9oUKjv9Afck) it is.

That is the most irritating thing I have ever seen or heard in my life, and I want it.:smallbiggrin:

[Triscuitable]

Got this Epic Rarity skin. It's pretty sweet, and goes well with the Rare Head I picked up doing Statuesque.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/542939025707686982/3B8C829785B88207A84A8417A73229DAA55388B6/

[GungHo]

Not really, they just weren't primary weapons.
They were for Brick. He had skills all around regenerating and enhancing rockets. They were to him what Assault Rifles were to Roland.

[Neon Knight]

My Axton is now level 24, specced in Survival and Guerrilla. For those wondering, no, it is not just you, the game is indeed harder than Borderlands 1 was. Most reviews I've read and people I've talked to have agreed on this. It seems to be due to a combination of somewhat improved AI and vastly increased numbers of enemies. This game will thrown tons of guys at you, and will throw multiple waves of tons of guys. If you're not quick about dispatching one wave, the second wave can spawn before you're ready. Fight For Your Life is a lot more common than in the first game, and skills improving it are seriously worth considering.

Ammunition consumption is also a problem. I find myself constantly running out of ammunition. Melee is very useful as a result of this.

Some people have mentioned gear troubles, and I had those too. One thing you can do is use the slot machines in Mad Moxxi's bar in Sanctuary. They drop guns leveled to you (up until lvl 18, anyway) and you can get greens, blues, purples, and I think even legendarys if you're really lucky. You can also get Eridium (good for upping your ammo capacities, which you will need) and customization schemes. If your gear is a few levels out of date and you're level 20 or below, it is not a bad way to upgrade your arsenal.

In conclusion, I hate Badass Threshers.

[Krade]

They were for Brick. He had skills all around regenerating and enhancing rockets. They were to him what Assault Rifles were to Roland.

If you ever found a fire elemental Mongol rocket launcher, you'd never use anything else. It sucks up close, but if you've got a lot of guys at range (Underdome or the Lance circle of duty from Knoxx) then it can wipe out massive ammounts of enemies VERY quickly.

[polity4life]

More on gear and Salvador:

Jakobs and Salvador are fast friends. My entire arsenal is now Jakobs, save for my E-tech SMG, and it is a joy to see those large, white numbers pop up. My friend Michael Mamaril (rest easy young man) hooked me up with a fantastic sniper rifle that pumps out 407 damage and my headshot crits border on 1700.

This makes me wonder about Salvador and damage output. I'm not sure how Axton's turrets or zer0's Decepti0n scales, but it may be the case that Salvador's gunzerk ability is the best ability in regards to scaling damage solely because it is almost entirely reliant on the weapons used. With appropriate leveled guns, or twink weapons if you're so fortunate, you should out perform the other classes in terms of damage dealt.

Can anyone substantiate or refute this?

[Neon Knight]

More on gear and Salvador:

Jakobs and Salvador are fast friends. My entire arsenal is now Jakobs, save for my E-tech SMG, and it is a joy to see those large, white numbers pop up. My friend Michael Mamaril (rest easy young man) hooked me up with a fantastic sniper rifle that pumps out 407 damage and my headshot crits border on 1700.

This makes me wonder about Salvador and damage output. I'm not sure how Axton's turrets or zer0's Decepti0n scales, but it may be the case that Salvador's gunzerk ability is the best ability in regards to scaling damage solely because it is almost entirely reliant on the weapons used. With appropriate leveled guns, or twink weapons if you're so fortunate, you should out perform the other classes in terms of damage dealt.

Can anyone substantiate or refute this?

I can neither confirm or deny this supposition, but I haven't put a single point of skills into my turret's damage output, and it is a murderous little guy from level 5 to level 24. I'd imagine that if you specced it out with Guerrilla tree upgrades and gamechangers, it could be extremely vicious. I'm not sure on who I would bet, especially if we're talking twin rocket turrets with shields and maxed accuracy and damage skills.

As for Decepti0n, yeah, I imagine it is not quite as powerful in terms of raw DPS as Gunzerking with two great legendaries will be. But Decepti0n has utility that Gunzerking does not, and Decepti0n has a much, much quicker cooldown.

[polity4life]

I can neither confirm or deny this supposition, but I haven't put a single point of skills into my turret's damage output, and it is a murderous little guy from level 5 to level 24. I'd imagine that if you specced it out with Guerrilla tree upgrades and gamechangers, it could be extremely vicious. I'm not sure on who I would bet, especially if we're talking twin rocket turrets with shields and maxed accuracy and damage skills.

As for Decepti0n, yeah, I imagine it is not quite as powerful in terms of raw DPS as Gunzerking with two great legendaries will be. But Decepti0n has utility that Gunzerking does not, and Decepti0n has a much, much quicker cooldown.

I suppose I will have to wait for some number crunching on that. However, I'm really interested in that last, emboldened bit.

By utility, what do you mean? If you mean usefulness then I have a dissenting opinion on the matter. Brawn spec'ed gunzerking has fantastic utility. Instant health, good regeneration that scales with damage taken, damage reduction, ammo regeneration, and a taunt. The Rampage and Gun Lust trees offer different uses but it's pretty boss in solo play and team play, provided the gear is in place.

[Krade]

I suppose I will have to wait for some number crunching on that. However, I'm really interested in that last, emboldened bit.

By utility, what do you mean?

Cloak and revive? I've found that useful multiple time playing with my friends. Long distance snipe shots on badass enemies? When I fought Flynt solo, I took down half of his health in one shot before he got to do anything. I haven't played the Gunzerker, but I don't think you can aim while gunzerking.

[Neon Knight]

I suppose I will have to wait for some number crunching on that. However, I'm really interested in that last, emboldened bit.

By utility, what do you mean? If you mean usefulness then I have a dissenting opinion on the matter. Brawn spec'ed gunzerking has fantastic utility. Instant health, good regeneration that scales with damage taken, damage reduction, ammo regeneration, and a taunt. The Rampage and Gun Lust trees offer different uses but it's pretty boss in solo play and team play, provided the gear is in place.


Cloak and revive? I've found that useful multiple time playing with my friends. Long distance snipe shots on badass enemies? When I fought Flynt solo, I took down half of his health in one shot before he got to do anything. I haven't played the Gunzerker, but I don't think you can aim while gunzerking.

Krade's remarks are in line with my thoughts. To elaborate, perhaps utility was a poor choice of words. Gunzerking lacks strategic and tactical ability. What Gunzerking is, essentially, is a set of really cool, really awesome, and pretty powerful stat boosts. With those stats boosts, you do what you do when you are not Gunzerking: you shoots things, and you shoot them a lot. Compare that to Axton's Turret, Zer0's Decepti0n, and Maya's Phaselock, which fundamentally alter the way these characters are played, and provide them with new capabilities.

Gunzerking lets you do things that you did before, only much, much better. And the degree of improvement is so significant that it might let you take risks and exploit opportunities that you may not have before. But the Gunzerker will never set up a flank on a Badass Nomad with his turret, or move invisibility to an excellent fighting position, and Maya's abilities speak them for themselves about the new opportunities they provide. I don't want that more abstract kind of power to get ignored in the face of raw damage numbers, in which the Gunzerker will probably excel. I don't want the discussion to be "Gunzerking is the best action skill because it has the biggest numbers." Not that you were necessarily arguing that, but the discussion could head that way.

As Axton, I value my turret not just as another source of DPS, but as providing cover via bubble shield, and as a second gun aiming and acting independently of me. I can be gunning down Hyperion loaders while my turret clears the sky of Surveyors, or it can be shooting down Rakk while I fight the Skags trying to eat us. I can cover one direction while turret fires down another. The turret is more than a way of generating bigger numbers, and I really appreciate that, even though I could be using those two purple Torgue shotguns I found together at once to make a literal hail of rockets (and body parts resulting from those rockets) as a Gunzerker.

This is a stat based game. Numbers matter. But, they are not the only thing that matters. The Gunzerker looks awesome. I'm sure I will enjoy playing him. But I know that as awesome as ammo regeneration, health regeneration, damage resistance, and 100% more gun is, I will miss some of the capabilities I had as other classes. What I'm trying to say is, I love my girlfriend.

___

Since I have endeavored to answer your question, sir, may I ask you one? You mentioned that you favored Jakobs as a Gunzerker. Now, I enjoy a good Jakobs. Fine guns, certainly. but I always found them best used from a distance, since carefully controlling my aim and fire rate to manage their recoil was how I got the most out of them. Sure, if you're caught point blank you can fan the hammer and empty your gun into a sucker, but in general Jakobs recoil is so fierce that I prefer to keep up a steady pace of fire, letting the recoil level out, rather than dump my magazines into a guy.

For my Gunzerker, I was planning on either dual wielding Vladofs (because if you put out enough bullets fast enough, you'll hit something) or Hyperion weapons, particularly SMGs. With Hyperions, your first shots are going to miss anyway, so you might as well hip fire and gain all the benefits wherein, and as you shoot more, you suddenly become dead accurate with very little recoil. This seemed a natural fit for Gunzerking, what with it being locked into hip-fire, and a way to extend the reach of the Gunzerker. What are your thoughts on this theory? Do your experiences speak against such an approach?

[Tectonic Robot]

So, uh... was just peeking in...

Yikes. You guys get up into the discussions, don'tcha? @_@

Anyway, just wanted to say a little semi-spoilered thing. I'm still very early into the game, and so far, it's pretty cool. Playing splitscreen is a pain in the butt, however, because it's so darn small. -_-

It seems that the player characters are quite a bit more brutal than they were before, what with the testing of guns on live subjects. Feels bad, man. >___>;;

[Neon Knight]

That robot we tested the corrosive gun on was in no way alive.

[polity4life]

Since I have endeavored to answer your question, sir, may I ask you one? You mentioned that you favored Jakobs as a Gunzerker. Now, I enjoy a good Jakobs. Fine guns, certainly. but I always found them best used from a distance, since carefully controlling my aim and fire rate to manage their recoil was how I got the most out of them. Sure, if you're caught point blank you can fan the hammer and empty your gun into a sucker, but in general Jakobs recoil is so fierce that I prefer to keep up a steady pace of fire, letting the recoil level out, rather than dump my magazines into a guy.

For my Gunzerker, I was planning on either dual wielding Vladofs (because if you put out enough bullets fast enough, you'll hit something) or Hyperion weapons, particularly SMGs. With Hyperions, your first shots are going to miss anyway, so you might as well hip fire and gain all the benefits wherein, and as you shoot more, you suddenly become dead accurate with very little recoil. This seemed a natural fit for Gunzerking, what with it being locked into hip-fire, and a way to extend the reach of the Gunzerker. What are your thoughts on this theory? Do your experiences speak against such an approach?

I prefer Jakobs for a couple reasons. Firstly, and most importantly, the best guns I've found happened to be Jakobs and my effectiveness has skyrocketed. Secondly, since I'm spec'ed for Brawn, I don't get some of the great benefits, like better ammo regen, offset usage, and gunzerker duration, afforded to those who built up the Rampage tree and use high-bullet capacity guns. Continuing on build, as primarily Brawn, I gain weapon damage and fire rate bonuses for being damaged. Seeing as how I'm going to fire faster and hitting for more damage since I'm going to be hit anyway, I don't mind eschewing faster firing guns for slower, harder hitting guns. As of right now, I'm of the belief that Jakobs will help me maximize that approach.

Are Hyperions or Vladofs best-in-slot? They could be, especially for Rampage builds. They could even be for Brawn builds too but I'm going to roll with what I have for now. If I find some good Hyperions or Vladofs, I'll switch over and see how that goes.

[Douglas]

Unless I'm missing something, fire rate bonuses are meaningless for Jakobs guns. A Jakobs gun's fire rate is "how fast can you pull the trigger?"

I suppose it might be different for SMGs and other sustained fire guns that keep shooting when you hold the trigger down, though.

[polity4life]

Unless I'm missing something, fire rate bonuses are meaningless for Jakobs guns. A Jakobs gun's fire rate is "how fast can you pull the trigger?"

I suppose it might be different for SMGs and other sustained fire guns that keep shooting when you hold the trigger down, though.

You know, that's a good point. I'm so used to flicking already that maybe I don't see how the other way could be better. Now I really want to find some decent Vladofs.

[Triscuitable]

You know, that's a good point. I'm so used to flicking already that maybe I don't see how the other way could be better. Now I really want to find some decent Vladofs.

Miniguns are a good find. A particular drop I had early on was a rotary rock launcher.

[Calemyr]

Miniguns are a good find. A particular drop I had early on was a rotary rock launcher.

Gunzerking a pair of Explosion-element Miniguns is a lot of fun, I can tell you that.

[Codemus]

What, no Bandit brand love? Come on, you can't tell me more bullets aren't more better!

[9mm]

.... I hate when designers arbitrarily design in a way that says "you may no longer solo play from this point".


dear who ever designed the Roland Rescue boss... please go smack yourself in the nuts several times. I just died because I had to shoot through 8 Badass loaders and was completely out of bullets by the time I could even shoot at the shielded robot. Hoard bosses are never fun, never end well, and do nothing but cause complete frustration unless someone is perfectly speced for them.

[IonDragon]

Ammunition consumption is also a problem. I find myself constantly running out of ammunition. Melee is very useful as a result of this.

It was for me too on Salvador, at level 20, but then I found a team ammo regen relic. Gives the whole team 0.7 ammo regen. Doesn't seem to work on rockets at all, but it's great for keeping you in SMG and shotgun ammo.

[Codemus]

It was for me too on Salvador, at level 20, but then I found a team ammo regen relic. Gives the whole team 0.7 ammo regen. Doesn't seem to work on rockets at all, but it's great for keeping you in SMG and shotgun ammo.

Oh thank god they kept ammo regen. I have yet to find any, but now I have hope!

[Mindfreak]

Anyone with a PS3 wanna start a new character and play with me?
Me and my brother have been playing together since release day, but he doesn't want to play often so I can't continue on my siren -.-

My PSN name is: roronorozoro

[Lunix Vandal]

For my Gunzerker, I was planning on either dual wielding Vladofs (because if you put out enough bullets fast enough, you'll hit something) or Hyperion weapons, particularly SMGs. With Hyperions, your first shots are going to miss anyway, so you might as well hip fire and gain all the benefits wherein, and as you shoot more, you suddenly become dead accurate with very little recoil. This seemed a natural fit for Gunzerking, what with it being locked into hip-fire, and a way to extend the reach of the Gunzerker. What are your thoughts on this theory? Do your experiences speak against such an approach?Hyperion weapons are excellent for Gunzerking, yes ... unless you spec Rampage and pick up Steady As She Goes. You'll reach peak accuracy slower because of the recoil reduction, and every time the accuracy boost procs, your crosshairs will snap outward. (Can you tell I learned this the hard way in Fink's Slaughterhouse yesterday?) SASS is rather nice, however, if you're using non-Hyperion weapons in crowded areas.

Another one to look out for is pairing a Hyperion and a non-Hyperion, especially if you're going to be firing with reckless abandon. The Hyperion's screen-shaking early recoil can throw off the non-Hyperion's early, accurate shots, and then depending on weapon type the non-Hyperion may jostle the Hyperion once it stabilizes. SASS will then lock you in a vicious cycle of never being able to shoot straight. :smallannoyed:

My favorite guns so far are actually a matched pair of Maliwan SMGs I got from Moxxi -- dual-wielding fire in one hand and acid in the other means I can always get bonus damage against unshielded enemies. Against shields, Stalkers, and Badasses, my shock'n'slag assault/shotty pair is one keypress away. Gunzerk's built-in ammo regen keeping up with my bullet hoses? Gravy. (Granted, the Inconceivable + 5So6 combo I mentioned earlier has vastly reduced my consumption in the first place, but still.)

Oh thank god they kept ammo regen. I have yet to find any, but now I have hope!There's also shields that have a chance to give you back some ammo every time you get shot. And, naturally, 166 Badass Ranks up for grabs (per character) for doing so.

[thorgrim29]

How do I get moar rockets? I found a rocket launcher in the firebird's canyon and I barely use it because I have like 5 rockets. (BTW I'm having a lot of fun pretending to my friend who played Lilith in 1 that the firebird is a huge boss fight with a badass fire immune guy)

[IonDragon]

Rumor: Borderlands 2 has the most annoying gun in the world, made by and for trolls.

Just stumbled across this gem. Possible spoilers in the first image, I suppose.


How do I get moar rockets?

I buy most of mine at the ammo shops.

[Triscuitable]

Well, tonight I beat it (technically it's the morning though, so... Quiet). Excellent ending with a good sequel hook.

Turns out the Vault Key is a map for dozens of Vaults all across the galaxy. Pandora just happens to have held a two of them.

Also, Roland really is dead.

[IonDragon]

Oh thank god they kept ammo regen. I have yet to find any, but now I have hope!

CLASS MOD; not relic. Sorry I messed that up. I just logged out of the game and remembered.

[Vizzerdrix]

.... I hate when designers arbitrarily design in a way that says "you may no longer solo play from this point".


dear who ever designed the Roland Rescue boss... please go smack yourself in the nuts several times. I just died because I had to shoot through 8 Badass loaders and was completely out of bullets by the time I could even shoot at the shielded robot. Hoard bosses are never fun, never end well, and do nothing but cause complete frustration unless someone is perfectly speced for them.


Simple.


Run past everything until you get to the boss then unload everything right into its big red eye.

[inexorabletruth]

I'm a little disappointed at the baddass points. I liked being able to chose how I optimize my character. I like the fact that I don't have character specific weapon preferences, but still...

When I built a revolver/repeater elemental Lilith, I felt like a freakin' god-slayer. Because I was able to crunch proficiency with pistols from both types of weapons, while still enjoying the bennies of two ammo caches. I was able to build her to my play style and I loved that.

With the new badass points, the buffs are randomly generated as far as I can tell, so building a nicely specialized (some say min-maxed, I call those people haters) elite warrior is a little bit more "luck-o-the-draw" than I prefer.

Other than that, it has been a pristine game. I haven't gone online with it yet, but the wife and I have been hammering out the story mode on system link since our pre-order came in.

I'm Zer0, she's Maya, but that's only until we unwrap our Mechromancer code. After playing Zer0 for a little bit, I'm probably switching to Axton. The wife pulls aggro harder than Leroy Jenkins, and I need a character type that's better at spreading the bullets around. Dropping a turret in the middle of a bandit sandwich then spraying the field with grenades and elemental SMG shenanigans is probably the way for me to go, so we don't keep spending my hard earned money at the New U Stations.

[inexorabletruth]

My post is shy...

[9mm]

I'm a little disappointed at the baddass points. I liked being able to chose how I optimize my character. I like the fact that I don't have character specific weapon preferences, but still...

When I built a revolver/repeater elemental Lilith, I felt like a freakin' god-slayer. Because I was able to crunch proficiency with pistols from both types of weapons, while still enjoying the bennies of two ammo caches. I was able to build her to my play style and I loved that.

With the new badass points, the buffs are randomly generated as far as I can tell, so building a nicely specialized (some say min-maxed, I call those people haters) elite warrior is a little bit more "luck-o-the-draw" than I prefer.

Other than that, it has been a pristine game. I haven't gone online with it yet, but the wife and I have been hammering out the story mode on system link since our pre-order came in.

I'm Zer0, she's Maya, but that's only until we unwrap our Mechromancer code. After playing Zer0 for a little bit, I'm probably switching to Axton. The wife pulls aggro harder than Leroy Jenkins, and I need a character type that's better at spreading the bullets around. Dropping a turret in the middle of a bandit sandwich then spraying the field with grenades and elemental SMG shenanigans is probably the way for me to go, so we don't keep spending my hard earned money at the New U Stations.

Badass points got generalized because they apply to all your characters.

[Erloas]

With the new badass points, the buffs are randomly generated as far as I can tell, so building a nicely specialized (some say min-maxed, I call those people haters) elite warrior is a little bit more "luck-o-the-draw" than I prefer.
I haven't went too far into the badass points, but they all give 1% then 0.7% then 0.6%... and I don't know how they go from there, it is clearly a case of diminishing returns though. I think it is good that they don't apply only to a specific weapon type because I have yet to settle on a specific weapon and often switch between at least 4 different types.

Of the list they give you to pick from, I think it just picks 5 of the 14 possible upgrades, not sure if it will change what you can pick if you log out or zone, but I think the whole point is that you wouldn't just stack a single option.

[Jasdoif]

Simple.


Run past everything until you get to the boss then unload everything right into its big red eye.
I certainly wish I'd known the red eye was a critical hit point when I did that fight. As it was, I discovered I was horribly ill-equipped for dealing with a strong shield. I fell back to using my incendiary SMG to whittle at it (and more importantly keep it from recharging) between hitting it with Phaselock (which damages things too large to suspend), and using my corrosive pistol to get second winds off the numerous smaller bots. I only actually "died" once, when I'd been crippled so many times close together that I bled out in a second (literally if I recall); but I'd managed to broke through its shield by then and it didn't come back anywhere near as strong.

It fell to corrosive shots pretty quickly after that. If I'd been aiming for the critical spot it might've gone down before I died.

[Triscuitable]

Thing about the endgame? Corrosive weapons are king. The last battle, you might want to go for Corrosive, Slag, or normal weaponry, as you'll quickly find resistances are a very irritating new feature.

Don't bother using Incendiary stuff on Loaders and such. It's a waste of time and ammo.

[mrzomby]

no one talking about possible new DLC class after mechromancer? wrong link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fh49Rgg4jk&feature=player_embedded

[Triscuitable]

I was thinking about that. I'd hope that some DLC will be a prequel of sorts to the game, ending on the destruction of New Haven, where the players take the roles of one of the original four Vault Hunters.

That, or joke DLC where Moxxi, Marcus, Scooter, and Zed are playable.

On a more serious note, I think something like one of the other two Sirens in the universe would make for a nice new character. Or maybe Tiny Tina.

[ScrambledBrains]

Got the game on Tuesday.

Love everything about the guns, the personalities of the new vault hunters, seeing the characters from the first game again...but I do have one complaint.

I chose to play as Zer0, and I love his behavior(The Haiku's. :smallbiggrin:)...but Decepti0n...sweet jiminy christmas trees, what a rip!

Five seconds...five seconds in which your hologram flails about like a ragdoll, making every bandit move as well, and making it difficult to set up a slash(Which is what I wanted to spec my Zer0 as, melee.), and once you do, oops! There goes your cover, and you've got several angry, homicidal maruaders on your ass, shooting you! :smallfurious: What the hell?! Why can't it last longer?! Or, better yet, why does it flail around?! It should have been programable, to move intelligently and distract the bandits, not pull them toward you!

'Deep breath' On the other hand, even with no points in the Sniper tree, I love headshotting everything. :smallbiggrin:

[Callos_DeTerran]

That, or joke DLC where Moxxi, Marcus, Scooter, and Zed are playable.

...This must be a thing. Hell, make Moxxi a siren and you've already got all your abilities fitting with the original classes...mostly just want to play as Moxxi. XD

[Triscuitable]

I'd certainly pay for a skin that reskins Maya as Moxxi, Zer0 as Zed, Axton as Scooter, and Salvador as Marcus. Hell, with the exception of Maya (Zed's masked, remember?), they all make sense.

[Nightson]

Got the game on Tuesday.

Love everything about the guns, the personalities of the new vault hunters, seeing the characters from the first game again...but I do have one complaint.

I chose to play as Zer0, and I love his behavior(The Haiku's. :smallbiggrin:)...but Decepti0n...sweet jiminy christmas trees, what a rip!

Five seconds...five seconds in which your hologram flails about like a ragdoll, making every bandit move as well, and making it difficult to set up a slash(Which is what I wanted to spec my Zer0 as, melee.), and once you do, oops! There goes your cover, and you've got several angry, homicidal maruaders on your ass, shooting you! :smallfurious: What the hell?! Why can't it last longer?! Or, better yet, why does it flail around?! It should have been programable, to move intelligently and distract the bandits, not pull them toward you!

'Deep breath' On the other hand, even with no points in the Sniper tree, I love headshotting everything. :smallbiggrin:

The trick is to pop your stealth before, sprint to the person and then hit them. But regardless it'll get a billion times easier when you hit the third row of melee talents and get the melee dash skill. It'll dash forward and do a more powerful cut, basically turning stealth into a "Kill one enemy" skill.

I also generally use a turtle shield with really high capacity to tank the bullets that come my way until I either sprint back behind cover or just melee all the enemies to death,

[Triscuitable]

Here's what you need to recognize: there are four shield types, and each one is built for a different class. The Nova shields are for Maya, the Absorbs for Salvador, and so on. If it blends well with your class, you should prioritize it.

[GloatingSwine]

Five seconds...five seconds in which your hologram flails about like a ragdoll, making every bandit move as well, and making it difficult to set up a slash(Which is what I wanted to spec my Zer0 as, melee.), and once you do, oops! There goes your cover, and you've got several angry, homicidal maruaders on your ass, shooting you! :smallfurious: What the hell?! Why can't it last longer?! Or, better yet, why does it flail around?! It should have been programable, to move intelligently and distract the bandits, not pull them toward you!



It runs forwards a bit, so launch it at an angle to where you intend to run to set up your attack.

It's also way better once you get Execute and can dash forward for the kill (and it usually does, even at about level 15 it regularly hits for 2500).

Also, in co-op it lets you cheese behind strong enemies and usually stay there because they'll stay focused on your co-op partner.

[Erloas]

So one thing that is kind of annoying is that for the longest time I was getting no decent class mods for the zerker. The stores would either have none or just white ones with bonuses I didn't want. I think I used a level 12 one until level 21 before I found a better one. We had a group of 4 last night and had 2-3 chests full of class mods and not a single one was for the zerker, of course there were some for classes that weren't in the group...

One other thing is that, especially when playing with other people, I want to run utility mods, like ammo regen. But all of the ammo regen mods have skill bonuses (now that I finally found some non-white ones) for skills I don't have. Partly because if I were running that skill tree then ammo wouldn't be a problem much anyway. I know its a matter of specialization, but in many cases I would actually prefer my class mod to give me abilities/utility that I don't already have in skills. But you don't get a skill bonus unless you have 1 point in that skill already. I really only see the skill bonus stacking as being really great if you are going for straight up damage.

And I'm not sure how I want to spec. I started out brawn for survivability but I'm not so sure its worth while any more. Especially in a team its pretty easy to stay alive... of course I don't know how much worse I would be if I didn't have the skills, I like running into the middle of everything. I also really like the combo of Fist Full of Hurt and a melee weapon, even thinking about adding a roid shield to it but haven't yet, because I can pretty much one-shot everything, it will even take down a huge amount on badasses.

I think my favorite shield so far is the nova shields, because I'm already in the middle of everything and they do a lot of damage its a good way to wipe out lots of people. I even found one that novas both at shield depletion and at health depletion, and I've had a lot of times where the nova from the health depletion will get me back up almost as soon as I go down.
I didn't find the absorb shield to be of much use... had a special or mission one that had a 25% absorb rate... whether or not it was absorbing the ammo I could never tell (since ammo is rarely an issue), but it didn't seem like it was negating the damage of 25% of the shots, not sure if it was supposed to, but that was my original assumption, that an absorbed bullet wouldn't do damage.
The booster shields that increase your first shot damage, I think it would work well for a sniper, and the Axton I was running with liked it, but I didn't notice it as being all that great for my build.

[9mm]

One other thing is that, especially when playing with other people, I want to run utility mods, like ammo regen. But all of the ammo regen mods have skill bonuses (now that I finally found some non-white ones) for skills I don't have.

class mods count as putting points into the skills, even if you don't have it.

[Erloas]

class mods count as putting points into the skills, even if you don't have it.

Not according to the game itself. It says +2 bonus to skill X, only applies if you already have at least 1 point to the skill.

[Triscuitable]

class mods count as putting points into the skills, even if you don't have it.

Only in the first game.

[9mm]

Not according to the game itself. It says +2 bonus to skill X, only applies if you already have at least 1 point to the skill.


Only in the first game.
Then why was I getting Helios damage when I had no points in Helios?

[DiscipleofBob]

So I ran into an interesting problem...

I was looking up telescopes in Southern Shelf Bay with my second character: Salvador, in a co-op with Maya. Whenever I'd look at a telescope, the view would end and go back to first-person view.

But then all the controls would lock up. I couldn't move, aim, shoot, activate any abilities, or do anything but go into the pause menu. I ended up having to quit and re-enter, but the same thing would happen when I tried going to the telescopes again. Not sure what's going on, but it didn't happen on my main, Axton.

I think it might happen when two people try to use a telescope at the same time.

[Erloas]

If I had to guess I would just bet you have a bugged gun. Try an integrity test (steam has it built in), or just purchase a new scoped weapon and give it a try.

[Triscuitable]

Then why was I getting Helios damage when I had no points in Helios?

Pics. We need pics or your argument isn't valid.

[9mm]

Pics. We need pics or your argument isn't valid.

it was over 3 days ago and according to the game's own information, working as intended. According to you it bugged or your wrong. try it out and see what happens, because I'm not rolling a new siren when I'm not even done on my first playthrough for pics proof.

[Triscuitable]

Well then, I'll go with what the game said, because by it's definition, you're incorrect. :smallwink:

[factotum]

Here's what you need to recognize: there are four shield types, and each one is built for a different class. The Nova shields are for Maya, the Absorbs for Salvador, and so on. If it blends well with your class, you should prioritize it.

How do Absorb shields blend with Salvador? He has so many methods of regenerating ammo as it is that another one seems entirely superfluous--heck, if I run short of ammo for my sniper rifle, a single Gunzerk using other weapons is enough to top it up to full, and I'm not even very deep into the talent trees there (only level 16 at the mo).

If anything I'd say Nova shields work better for him, because he's pretty much guaranteed to get his shield depleted when he's up close and personal gunzerking!

[Lunix Vandal]

If anything I'd say Nova shields work better for him, because he's pretty much guaranteed to get his shield depleted when he's up close and personal gunzerking!Or, alternately, use a "no-frills" variety with lowish capacity, a 1-second delay, and a sky-high regen rate (mine's ~1050 SHP, 1.35 SRD, ~1400 SRR). 2 seconds in cover, or whenever the enemies have to reload? Full shields, and Gunzerk can a significant chunk of HP. A few seconds under fire? Free ammo from Inconceivable. That's a win-win in my book.

I could see an Absorb shield working well too, however -- particularly for drawn-out fights like attacking the Hyperion Bunker solo (guess what I did before work today). Seems Gunzerk + 5/5 Inconceivable + 7/5 5 Shots or 6 can't keep up with dual-wielded SMGs fired near-continuously for fights that last longer than a minute or two. :smalltongue:

[Nightson]

it was over 3 days ago and according to the game's own information, working as intended. According to you it bugged or your wrong. try it out and see what happens, because I'm not rolling a new siren when I'm not even done on my first playthrough for pics proof.

Triscuitable is right.

http://imgur.com/QCaNY

[polity4life]

After our brief back and forth last week, I made it a point to find some non-Jakobs firearms and see how gunzerking went. As it turns out, I discovered two facts. First, not all Jakobs have the "fire as fast as you can hit the trigger" feature. Second, Jakobs were not made for gunzerking.

I managed to get my hands on a couple nice Vladof assault rifles, a Vladof sniper, a couple Hyperion SMGs, and an amazing Bandit pistol. Fire saturation really doesn't describe what I had going on. Any of those combination of those guns worked much better than my Jakobs weaponry. I still keep a pistol with +100% melee damage but beyond that, I'm unfortunately going to have to swear off my favorite gun maker for this character.

Oh, and bowler cap Salvador is pretty nifty, moreover when you apply the bandit paint skin.

[Dhavaer]

Any other Siren players getting some odd voice files from Maya? Specifically she seems to have swapped voice boxes with Axton.

[factotum]

Seems Gunzerk + 5/5 Inconceivable + 7/5 5 Shots or 6 can't keep up with dual-wielded SMGs fired near-continuously for fights that last longer than a minute or two. :smalltongue:

Ah, I make sure I use two weapons with two different ammo types when Gunzerking--I have a nice chaingun barrel assault rifle that deals explosive damage and a shock SMG working together right now; Goliaths and other tough baddies just melt in the hail of fire!

[Douglas]

So, I just finished the quest where you investigate and destroy the cult that worships Lilith and got this orange rarity shield called the Flame of the Firehawk as the quest reward. Looks like a fairly standard fire nova shield with high stats, except with a slight change in wording... I haven't actually tried it out yet, but according to some google searching it sends out a nova once every two seconds any time it's drained, I think even with no requirement to ever have a full recharge. Holy crap!:smalleek:

Is this correct, and is it as awesome for farming the Super Novas shield challenge (killing enemies with shield novas) as it sounds?

Oh, and it's nice to see that the top rarity category isn't for weapons only.

[Triscuitable]

Any other Siren players getting some odd voice files from Maya? Specifically she seems to have swapped voice boxes with Axton.

Are you past oppurtunity?

[Sith_Happens]

it was over 3 days ago and according to the game's own information, working as intended. According to you it bugged or your wrong. try it out and see what happens, because I'm not rolling a new siren when I'm not even done on my first playthrough for pics proof.

You don't need to make a new siren, just reset your skill points at a quick-change station and don't reassign all of them.

[NPC White Mage]

Two quick questions, what does tipping Mad Moxxi do? Where is the Creature Slaughter Dome and how do I get to it?

Tipping Mad Moxxi will eventually result in her giving you weapons.

So far, I've gotten 4 from her, each was a sub machine gun.

Moxxi's Good Touch is a SMG that does fire DMG
Moxxi's Bad Touch is a SMG that does caustic DMG

Both weapons are scaled to you, so tipping her every few levels to get new SMGs isn't a bad idea, especially for Maya, but it can be expensive.

The level 28 Good Touch I bought last night cost me around 12,000 to buy? But its worth it IMO.

So far, my play list is

1 Maya - Love the idea of Sirens
2 Salvador - His Rampage tree looks fantastic
3 Gaige - When she is released, until then move on to 4
4 Zer0 - Meh
5 Axton - Double Meh since I played as Roland in first game, and don't much like Axton's skills.

Personally, I'm having ALOT of fun with Maya's Cataclysm skill tree. My damage out put is insane because of the elemental stacking. Every other Maya I know chose the Harmony skill tree...strange.

[factotum]

according to some google searching it sends out a nova once every two seconds any time it's drained, I think even with no requirement to ever have a full recharge. Holy crap!:smalleek:

Is this correct, and is it as awesome for farming the Super Novas shield challenge (killing enemies with shield novas) as it sounds?


Yes, it does work as you've Googled. It's maybe not as good as you think, though, because the novas will stop as soon as the shield starts recharging and won't start again unless the shield has had a chance to recharge fully before getting discharged again...it's quite a slow charging shield, so it takes a while for that to happen. Thus the only way you can be reasonably sure of getting continuous novas is to stay constantly under fire once the shield has depleted, and I think you see the problem there! :smallsmile:

[Erloas]

Personally, I'm having ALOT of fun with Maya's Cataclysm skill tree. My damage out put is insane because of the elemental stacking. Every other Maya I know chose the Harmony skill tree...strange.
Its not all that strange. As anyone you've meet is playing with other people and picking the good team based skills are going to be common. I'm sure the majority of the solo Mayas are picking the other trees, but pretty much by definition you aren't going to be seeing them.
And in the end everyone, no matter the spec, is good at skilling stuff, there are however only a few skills to help keep other people alive.


So far my favorite line of quests, and probably one of my favorite characters overall, is Tiny Tina. I just loved her Tea Party.

As for weapon choice, I too try to diversify my selection so I never have to worry about totally running out of ammo. I've been going with large clip weapons for my gunzerking pair with the 3rd and 4th weapons being utility or large, slower damage.
The first ones often end up pistols, but SMG and Assault rifles make it in there too. I'm not sure why but it seems like pistols often have better damage and the same ROF or better then most SMGs and assault rifles and with faster reloads and they don't often give up that much magazine size to get there. I've rarely found SMGs that really seem all that great, they are better for elemental then assault rifles but most pistols have elemental too.
Right now I've got a slag pistol and... forget one the matching weapon is exactly but its an elemental high ROF weapon. My 3rd weapons is a melee revolver, and the 4th is alternating between utility and high damage, something like a shotgun, or something with a less useful elemental damage like explosive or shock which get used sometimes but not for everything, and rocket launchers have started hitting here a bit more since they are starting to show up. The 3rd and 4th slots are where the Jakobs often end up, not being able to hold down the trigger makes them a PITA as gunzerker primary weapons.
None of the other manufacturers really stand out to me, though the high magazines make Bandits decent for gunzerking I don't think they are very good for elemental.

I have a feeling my assassin will be using a lot of Jakobs. At least as secondary weapons, they make great snipers. But I'm still planning on a melee primary build for him, though I need a few more levels (8-9 right now I think) before I'm really sure on that. I just don't see enough times where sitting back and sniping is a practical option.

[Dhavaer]

Are you past oppurtunity?

It's the voice modulator? Huh. Didn't see that coming.

[9mm]

Personally, I'm having ALOT of fun with Maya's Cataclysm skill tree. My damage out put is insane because of the elemental stacking. Every other Maya I know chose the Harmony skill tree...strange.

Cataclysm is amazing, though I did drop 2 points into harmony for the heal; which also tends to be the most visually obvious effect. You might just not notice the movement and cataclysm skills.

[Sayt]

I gotta say, Axton's turret is SO MUCH better than Roland's in BL1. For me, the most significant metric of this is that I actually use Axton's turret. Also, Roland's turret can't get a rocketpod as early.

Also, who love's the Loaders secondary crit boxes which knock the arms off? As far as I'm aware, it works on all of them but the Dozers (from in front) and the 'Angelic guards'?

[Salur]

I have a feeling my assassin will be using a lot of Jakobs. At least as secondary weapons, they make great snipers. But I'm still planning on a melee primary build for him, though I need a few more levels (8-9 right now I think) before I'm really sure on that. I just don't see enough times where sitting back and sniping is a practical option.

Obviously, a lot depends on what you find fun as a playstyle (and the subjective opinion of "enough times"), but I've been trying to sit and snipe pretty much the whole game (I'm level 23 now), and I've been pleased with my ability to do so. There are, to be sure, certain enemies who are either too mobile or too annoying to use the rifle on, but most of the time it's pretty reasonable, I think.

Just to quantify that a bit (and because I was curious), I looked at the "Kill X dudes" challenges for each weapon, to see how often I killed with each weapon. Percentages and pie chart in spoiler, apologies for the truly awful presentation.

Sniper Rifle (scoped): 44.9%
Pistol: 13.5%
Shotgun: 8.1%
Shield: 7.4%
Other/unknown: 6.8%
Vehicle Turret: 5.6%
Melee: 4.1%
Assault Rifle: 3.2%
No-scope Sniper rifle: 2.9%
Grenade: 2.0%
SMG: 1.6%


Other/unknown is the difference between my day kills + night kills (1423) and the sum of all seperately listed weapons above (1326). It's stuff like running people over, exploding barrels, that sort of thing.

https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=b943a6ffbb&view=att&th=139fa641896da380&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_h7i5bjbu0&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9uosH5yj9QWH526rlpHQ2n&sadet=1348525655768&sads=hls1EEu1LOTeimfj9p3mQu1HtTk

My SMG usage is going to go up (since I've decided to use the legendary one that I found), but I use the Sniper rifle almost as often as everything else combined, and I think do think it's fairly viable (most of the time).


For what it's worth, I do mostly use Jakobs guns. Had a nice Maliwan slag rifle I used, and even a Hyperion for a little while, but I've used 7 sniper rifles and 5 have been Jakobs.

[ex cathedra]

I'm almost on playthrough 2.5 as a level 45 Zero, so I thought that I'd share my experiences.

Melee is fun for a while. That last part is pretty key, though, because it's mediocre until you get the Melee capstone (because, before then, in any situation in which you could melee you could have instead used a shotgun to similar to better effect) at which point it suddenly becomes really fun. However, you reach a point not long (within 10 or so levels) into playthrough two where melee becomes tough, and while it excels at clearing trash mobs it's entirely unviable when you need it most: against the toughest enemies in the game. This wasn't unexpected, and though I was a bit bummed out I thought I'd switch over to sniping to cope.

But, man, sniping isn't great. The problem is that Sniping doesn't really have any damage outside of Critical Damage. Crits are great and all but he doesn't really get any strong, accessible sources of fire rate or gun damage to really put those multiplicative damage boosters to work. Axton and Sal get a ton of mixed +damage modifiers and so even when you're reliably landing your crits as Zero I don't really feel like I would be out-performing the other gun classes.

Which brings me to my next points. Crits aren't reliable. Lots of enemies are easy to crit, but quite a few simply aren't. Stalkers? Jet loaders? Skag swarms? Threshers? Varkid? Physically shielded enemies? Pretty much every flying enemy in the game in addition to several notable bosses? Skill and accuracy are one thing but it would take unusually gifted mechanics to reliably crit several enemy types in ordinary game situations.

On the topic of crits, Critical Ascension just kind of sucks. Stacks decay really quickly, and while the damage you get is certainly worth a one skill point investment I'm not convinced that it's worth buying yourself the entire skill tree. It's a nice bonus, but it's not nearly as game-changing as... well, as any other capstone in the game.

On the other hand, though, the middle Assassin tree (Cunning) is just absolutely ****ing fantastic. Seriously, just pick up some double-firing pistols, SMGs, or solid shotties, put 5 points in Ambush, Rising Shot, and most importantly Two Fang and go to town. Effectively, you're just playing Lillith from the first game except that your Phasewalk lets you throw absurdly strong Kunai. Which is really good, because Lillith was bar-none the most overwhelmingly powerful character in BL1. I'm aiming for something like this (http://www.bl2skills.com/assassin.html#501501500050055104510000000000) and I can't really think of anything that would make Zero stronger. With a high-level "Professional" class mod, you score 10/5 skill ranks in Two Fang, thus giving every one of your manual shots a 60% chance to fire an additional bullet. It's pretty good.

[The_Jackal]

I totally agree, Aethernox. I tried a sniper Zero, and it just didn't have enough going for it over other characters to warrant a build. IMO, Zero is a melee-centric toon. If you want to stand and fire, go with Axton.

Speaking of, here's my current notions on my Commando build:

http://www.bl2skills.com/commando.html#50500100005000000000055005155101

Maximum uptime, maximum whup-ass turrets, personal durability, and a quick dip into Impact for bonus personal damage. By my math, I'll have a 33.6 second cooldown on the turrets, and they'll have a 30 second duration. If I'm very lucky, I'll find a class mod that sports a couple bonus ranks of resourceful, and I'll have always on double turrets, and who wouldn't want that?

[Erloas]

I didn't save my practice builds, but I think both of those are about what I had picked. I know my assassin was mostly cunning, though I had points in both of the other trees... not that I actually expect to take any character to 50, if its anything like BL1 my group won't stay together past one playthrough.
And the commando, I was putting a bit more into grenades, I really like the MIRVs. Grenades seem to be underutilized by a lot of people but I've found things go so much better when you remember to toss them out.

As for the sniping in general, I think it really depends how much you play with other people and how good those players are. You will just be swarmed most of the time if you go solo but they work much better in a group if you don't have to worry about saving those people and closing range quite a lot. Latency can be a lot bigger issue too when you're trying to snipe in faster moving situations because the enemies do a lot better job at not sitting still for long and if you aren't hitting criticals all the time you may as well have a revolver.

[Reynard]

I've found having a decent (Dahl or Maliwan) sniper really useful when fighting baddasses as a Siren. Phaselock 'em and shoot the critspot for massive damage. Jakobs are nice, but haven't found a sniper that compares with either my Sexy Maliwan or the Dahl rifle I call Destroyer of Souls, a 600 damage burst fire shock monstrosity that just ends things.

[factotum]

But, man, sniping isn't great. The problem is that Sniping doesn't really have any damage outside of Critical Damage. Crits are great and all but he doesn't really get any strong, accessible sources of fire rate or gun damage to really put those multiplicative damage boosters to work.

Re: fire rate--what about a burst sniper? You can actually find those quite easily (the only burst sniper guns in the original game were extremely rare legendaries), and for example I have one that'll empty its 6-round clip into an opponent when scoped. You run out of ammo hella quick, of course, but you certainly have no reason to complain about the fire rate!

[Kyrian]

5 Axton - Double Meh since I played as Roland in first game, and don't much like Axton's skills.

I've only played Axton to level 7 so far, then moved on to Zer0, but Axton is loads better imo than Roland. First and foremost, the fact that you can pick up your turret if it's no longer needed and regain some of that cooldown.

[GungHo]

I've found having a decent (Dahl or Maliwan) sniper really useful when fighting baddasses as a Siren. Phaselock 'em and shoot the critspot for massive damage. Jakobs are nice, but haven't found a sniper that compares with either my Sexy Maliwan or the Dahl rifle I call Destroyer of Souls, a 600 damage burst fire shock monstrosity that just ends things.
With Maya (or Lilith, for that matter), the elemental procs on a corrosive or incendiary sniper weapon really help burn people down. With a sniper or revolver you have a very large initial impulse on a hit, and that impulse drives the amount of proc damage, which is further magnified by the fact that you're a Siren. That doesn't help Zer0 (or Mordecai) much though, because he doesn't have that additional magnification from "Sirenity".

In the first game, there was an explosive sniper with splash damage (a Torgue Cobra) that was fantasitc with Mordecai. Better even than the Maliwan Volcano. I wonder if there was something similar that carried over.

[Douglas]

Personally, I'm having ALOT of fun with Maya's Cataclysm skill tree. My damage out put is insane because of the elemental stacking. Every other Maya I know chose the Harmony skill tree...strange.
I'm actually planning to put most of my points in the Motion tree. More and longer phase locks, and it bouncing to another target if the first one dies? Yes please. The rest of my skill point plan involves getting Wreck (because that bonus is just ridiculously huge, and with all the Motion stuff it'll be active a lot) and Minds Eye because I like sniper rifles and phase lock makes getting headshots easy. My multiplayer build will also pick up Res because it's such a potential game changer in a team and I'd already qualify, and I'll probably pick up a little Elated too, but I'm not planning to go any further than that in Harmony.


Yes, it does work as you've Googled. It's maybe not as good as you think, though, because the novas will stop as soon as the shield starts recharging and won't start again unless the shield has had a chance to recharge fully before getting discharged again...it's quite a slow charging shield, so it takes a while for that to happen. Thus the only way you can be reasonably sure of getting continuous novas is to stay constantly under fire once the shield has depleted, and I think you see the problem there! :smallsmile:
I've tried it out now, and there's no way in hell that the time between novas is 2 seconds. More like 1 second, or even less. And it needing a full recharge before starting again isn't much of a problem because by the time it stops everything's dead. Combat almost degenerates into just running straight at the nearest enemy and watching him die burning, possibly after nicking me a time or two (most likely with ranged attackers) and extending the novas. Of course, I see how many I can take out before that happens, but any time the shield does drop it usually finishes the battle for me.

Flame of the Firehawk is a pretty strong candidate for best shield in the game, I think. Assuming it scales to your level when you get it, I might postpone that quest in playthrough 2 just to get a twinked out max level version of it.

In other news, the last few posts have convinced me that I should search for and try out a Dahl burst fire sniper. I've been using mostly Jakobs snipers so far, but if the bursts don't disrupt accuracy too much the multiplier from extra shots might be worth a drop in damage per shot.

[Codemus]

So has anyone tried a melee Zero with the Love Thumper shield? Or is that just a trap shield?

For those who haven't gotten it: Love Thumper is one of those shields that grant bonus melee damage when the shield is depleted. It is a unique purple because it has a huge Roid damage bonus, and it's shield recharge delay is a staggering 250 seconds. I guess the point behind it is that once it is down, you get access to that huge buff for a very long time.

Dosen't seem like it's worth it though, which is why I ask before testing.

[Erloas]

So has anyone tried a melee Zero with the Love Thumper shield? Or is that just a trap shield?

I saw that shield just recently but the implication of the really long recharge timer didn't occur to me at the time. Not sure if it is a specific version or if it is a scaling one, but I saw it around level 22.
The main issue I would see with using it is the fact that sometimes the time between shields dropping and you being dead is very short by those levels. Maybe if you put a lot of skills and gear towards increasing your health and health regen, but I could see you getting knocked down early and then having to be saved every 5 seconds because you are only picked up with about 20% health. I think it could probably be done with some planning, but I think you would almost have to build your character and all of your equipment around trying to make it work.


The one really annoying thing I've found with sniping as Zero so far is that every time I spawn the shadow it runs right in front of me and blocks my view of what I want to shoot. The very quick use timer on the skill also gives very little time to switch from the activation animation and get zoomed and and get aimed and get that critical shot.

[Douglas]

Sounds like a good tool for the Roid Rage challenge. On looking things up a bit more, it appears that each of the shield challenges has a specific unique or legendary shield that is spectacularly good for that specific challenge.

Except Game of Thorns, looks like that one has to be done with a regular spike shield. Guess it's a good thing I picked Game of Thorns to be my first shield challenge to max out (I completed it a short time before getting Flame of the Firehawk).

[Codemus]

Sounds like a good tool for the Roid Rage challenge. On looking things up a bit more, it appears that each of the shield challenges has a specific unique or legendary shield that is spectacularly good for that specific challenge.

Except Game of Thorns, looks like that one has to be done with a regular spike shield. Guess it's a good thing I picked Game of Thorns to be my first shield challenge to max out (I completed it a short time before getting Flame of the Firehawk).

I forgot about the shield specific challenges. Though that reminds me of another question. Do you get anything for completing the Cult of the Vault? Or is it just more badass points?

[DiscipleofBob]

I gotta say, Axton's turret is SO MUCH better than Roland's in BL1. For me, the most significant metric of this is that I actually use Axton's turret. Also, Roland's turret can't get a rocketpod as early.

As awesome as Axton is, I have to respectfully disagree, as Axton's turret doesn't have the aura of god mode that Roland's had with ammo and health regen. Granted, it's awesome in its own ways. Axton is definitely a more offensive character than Roland was.

I think I figured out my glitch with the telescopes freezing my character in Southern Shelf Bay. It only happened when my co-op partner tried using the telescopes at the same time I did. Annoying glitch still.

But it worked out well in the end since I got two explosive Combat Rifles in the end, one of which was orange. And then I got the Eridian Jackpot on the first try and upgraded my Combat Rifle ammo twice. Also keeping two blue shotguns and two decent pistols.

I kind of want to get two awesome Torgue Shotguns with low magazines that explode when you reload them just to see if those guns actually become viable in gunzerking.

Still haven't tried Maya and I started a solo with Zer0 before remembering just what a pain soloing is in this game.

[Psyren]

Just started last night (no spoilers please) with Salvadore. I played Brick exclusively in BL1 and Salvadore is just as much of a beast even without the melee. Gunzerking gives you a massive heal and you get even more love from the Hard to Kill tree but for now I'm focusing on Rampage to get my GZ cooldowns as low as possible and make it last as long as possible.

There is just something immensely satisfying about dual-wielding shotguns and ignoring cover :smallbiggrin:

[Douglas]

I forgot about the shield specific challenges. Though that reminds me of another question. Do you get anything for completing the Cult of the Vault? Or is it just more badass points?
Just more badass ranks, as far as I know. Considering the permanent tied-to-account nature of those that's still a pretty good reward, though.


I kind of want to get two awesome Torgue Shotguns with low magazines that explode when you reload them just to see if those guns actually become viable in gunzerking.
The explode on reload thing is exclusive to Tediore.

[DiscipleofBob]

JThe explode on reload thing is exclusive to Tediore.

Sorry, meant Tediore. I always get those two confused.

[Codemus]

I've found the Tediore shotguns to be insanely powerful when you just shoot one shot and just throw the rest. But my favorite Tediore weapons are the launchers! The erratic flight path of the launcher just adds a very nice touch of random chance to the mix.


EDIT: I should mention, I haven't found any of the other Tediore weapons to be as useful when shot once and thrown as the shotgun.

Also, I can't recall ever seeing a Tediore Sniper rifle. Do they even make those?

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Not the bouncing bunny orange tediore launcher. The erratic bouncing is too annoying. I'd replace it but it packs one mean punch.

[Codemus]

One orange Tediore shotgun I found homed in on targets, firing shots as it went (even with an empty clip!) before impacting and exploding. Near as I could tell, remaining ammo in the clip also affected how powerful the shots where while it was flying.

It was pretty good, but it was quicly outclassed by better stuff later on. I can't recall the name though.

[ex cathedra]

So has anyone tried a melee Zero with the Love Thumper shield? Or is that just a trap shield?

For those who haven't gotten it: Love Thumper is one of those shields that grant bonus melee damage when the shield is depleted. It is a unique purple because it has a huge Roid damage bonus, and it's shield recharge delay is a staggering 250 seconds. I guess the point behind it is that once it is down, you get access to that huge buff for a very long time.

Dosen't seem like it's worth it though, which is why I ask before testing.

Melee Zero can't really survive with no shields and just Resurgence or whatever, even in solo play, so Love Thumper is pretty much just out-classed by another melee shield that comes later in the game. It's a cute gimmick while it lasts, though.

Edit
That Shotty is called Deliverance, and it drops off of a Wildlife Preserve boss.

[thorgrim29]

Does the statue of marcus on the bridge do anything? Also,

is there any reason to kill the constructor on the bridge? Because not killing it there gives access to an area with lots of xp and a pretty good chest

[Rake21]

Does the statue of marcus on the bridge do anything? Also,

is there any reason to kill the constructor on the bridge? Because not killing it there gives access to an area with lots of xp and a pretty good chest

There's a side mission from the Sanctuary Bounty Board that sends you to the prison anyways. So, either way works.

[Codemus]

Does the statue of marcus on the bridge do anything? Also,

is there any reason to kill the constructor on the bridge? Because not killing it there gives access to an area with lots of xp and a pretty good chest

Well, you can sacrifice somebody to it. Requires two people, so I don't know if it gives anything.

As to your second question, I haven't the foggiest.

[Lunix Vandal]

So has anyone tried a melee Zero with the Love Thumper shield? Or is that just a trap shield?

For those who haven't gotten it:Love Thumper is one of those shields that grant bonus melee damage when the shield is depleted. It is a unique purple because it has a huge Roid damage bonus, and it's shield recharge delay is a staggering 250 seconds. I guess the point behind it is that once it is down, you get access to that huge buff for a very long time.

Dosen't seem like it's worth it though, which is why I ask before testing.There's a trick, though -- the LT is the only Maylay shield I know of that makes your punches explode on contact. If you can keep dishing out punches, the LT's explosions are nearly as effective in clearing out groups of trash mobs as Flame of the Firehawk's Novas. As I said to my brother as I was grinding Roid Rage: "This is Brick's favorite shield, he just doesn't know it yet."

Still, I'd rather have my gimmick Amp shield with 0 drain and +2735 damage. :smalltongue:

[Codemus]

There's a trick, though -- the LT is the only Maylay shield I know of that makes your punches explode on contact. If you can keep dishing out punches, the LT's explosions are nearly as effective in clearing out groups of trash mobs as Flame of the Firehawk's Novas. As I said to my brother as I was grinding Roid Rage: "This is Brick's favorite shield, he just doesn't know it yet."

Still, I'd rather have my gimmick Amp shield with 0 drain and +2735 damage. :smalltongue:

What was the name of that one again? Because that sounds awsome, and I'd like to pick one up. I've got an Impailer right now, but it seems kinda scattershot about when its gonna shoot those barbs.

[Sholos]

The one really annoying thing I've found with sniping as Zero so far is that every time I spawn the shadow it runs right in front of me and blocks my view of what I want to shoot. The very quick use timer on the skill also gives very little time to switch from the activation animation and get zoomed and and get aimed and get that critical shot.

Try throwing the hologram to the side of the fight.

[Lunix Vandal]

What was the name of that one again? Because that sounds awsome, and I'd like to pick one up. I've got an Impailer right now, but it seems kinda scattershot about when its gonna shoot those barbs.You're looking for an orange-quality shield called "The Bee." It's a potential drop from the target of an assassination sidequest given by Mordecai late in the game. And it is indeed gloriously OP: (ENDGAME SPOILS) Pair that sucker up with a high-ROF, high-pellet-count shotgun and the fights against Jack and the Warrior are almost trivial. Since I was doing 30k+ damage per shell, the Warrior in particular was never able to launch an attack before Jack ordered it back into the lava. And since it never attacked, my shield never went down, so I never lost the Amp bonus ... :smallbiggrin:

[Codemus]

Oh, I know that mission. Hmm... it may be too powerful by the sound of it. Maybe I'll get it for my sniper zero.

[Yuki Akuma]

So, I got this game three days ago. I've clocked 30 hours. I may be addicted.

Zer0 is amazingly fun. Haven't really tried the others, beyond my co-op Maya, but I love sneaky characters so Zer0 is a pretty good fit...

[GloatingSwine]

There's a trick, though -- the LT is the only Maylay shield I know of that makes your punches explode on contact. If you can keep dishing out punches, the LT's explosions are nearly as effective in clearing out groups of trash mobs as Flame of the Firehawk's Novas. As I said to my brother as I was grinding Roid Rage: "This is Brick's favorite shield, he just doesn't know it yet."


Nah, Brick's favourite shield is Order.

+1200 roid damage and when you're also using Law (revolver with +100% melee damage) 20% of melee damage returned as health.

It's really really hard to die using that combo.

[Triscuitable]

Nah, Brick's favourite shield is Order.

+1200 roid damage and when you're also using Law (revolver with +100% melee damage) 20% of melee damage returned as health.

It's really really hard to die using that combo.

It gets to the point where you'll always have Law equipped, even when it's just a level 15 gun in comparison to the level 40s and 45s you'll be running in TVH mode.

[ex cathedra]

The Bee isn't a gimmick, it's just absolutely ****ing overpowered. :smalltongue:

And, technically, Law gets to the point where you won't use it at all. :smallfrown:

[Triscuitable]

And, technically, Law gets to the point where you won't use it at all. :smallfrown:

Technically. Then you get Law and Order in TVH mode, and you'll go back to using them all the time! Except when fighting Terramorphous. Holy. Crap. :smalleek:

[ex cathedra]

Not a lot of reason to go melee in TVH mode, though. Many Will Fall... well, it falls off rreally hard. Not to mention that a skill that makes it easy to take out enemies who are already easy to take out is kind of the definition of win-more, regardless of how fun it is in normal mode.

[Codemus]

Technically. Then you get Law and Order in TVH mode, and you'll go back to using them all the time! Except when fighting Terramorphous. Holy. Crap. :smalleek:

So I take it taking down Terra with the Law & Order combo didn't exactly go as planned. :smallbiggrin:

So has anyone taken it down at all? Does it drop that golden key? Because I've not found the dang thing anywhere, and I'm dying to know what's in the chest in Sanctuary.

[The_Jackal]

To get the golden key, you needed to pre-order the game.

[ex cathedra]

Terra's loot is massively better than that of the chest. It drops purple or pink items of your level, and keys are obtained by pre-ordering, signing up for Gearbox Shift, and promotions.

[Sholos]

TVH mode?w

[Triscuitable]

So I take it taking down Terra with the Law & Order combo didn't exactly go as planned. :smallbiggrin:

So has anyone taken it down at all? Does it drop that golden key? Because I've not found the dang thing anywhere, and I'm dying to know what's in the chest in Sanctuary.
That chest only ever drops purple weapons of your level. It's totally uninteresting, and always dependent on luck.

To get the golden key, you needed to pre-order the game.
Or use Gearbox Shift for a free key. Randy Pitchford commonly tweets out 10k use codes for Golden Keys.

Terra's loot is massively better than that of the chest. It drops purple or pink items of your level, and keys are obtained by pre-ordering, signing up for Gearbox Shift, and promotions.
It drops a special Nova shield, title, or gun each time you kill it.

TVH mode?w
True Vault Hunter Mode, a.k.a., Playthrough 2.

[Chen]

So I heard during playthrough 2 you should skip all sidequests with unique rewards since they scale once you hit playthrough 2.5 and that way you can get the best level uniques out there.

I presume this means you can't reset quests or anything. So, taking "The Bee" for example, how do you actually farm that? Does the boss keep respawning even if you don't have the quest anymore?

Also I've noticed I had to put the FOV up to 110 and still play at a smaller resolution on my PC otherwise I find the game is pretty nausea inducing. I've had the issue before on some third person games with wonky cameras (Gears of War during the roaddie run or RE 5, both on PC). I had a bit of the issue with Borderlands 1 but could play full screen without issue. I wonder if there's some graphic settings that could help with it. I also noticed a gear bit of horizontal screen tearing which is unusual in games. Vsync clears up vertical tearing but I rarely see horizontal tearing. Its pretty obvious in this one though.

[Lunix Vandal]

I presume this means you can't reset quests or anything. So, taking "The Bee" for example, how do you actually farm that? Does the boss keep respawning even if you don't have the quest anymore?The vast majority of "go here, kill this specific guy" quests in BL2 do have the target respawn, if only because most of the targets are the subject of Badass Rank objectives. From experience, this one certainly does.

EDIT: The "Brick's Favorite Shield" comment was in reference to the bio sheets that Gearbox put out in the weeks leading up to release -- the only thing listed in Brick's "dislikes" was "things that don't explode when punched." With the Love Thumper, that's exactly nothing, so ...

[Valaqil]

Anyone else have thoughts on Zer0? I'm trying to decide which class to play and I'm hearing conflicting things about that class. Is Deception that useful if you're sniping? Seems like bonus damage for just one bullet. I guess it's okay since it has a shorter cooldown and there's good Kill Skills?

[Erloas]

I'm not sure how deception will get at higher levels, but at lower levels it seems just a little bit too short for a lot of things. By the time you release the image and get into sniping mode you have very little time to actually aim the shot.
The other issue is that it isn't really needed against the run of the mill enemies you'll be facing, as in most cases a critical shot with a sniper rifle already does enough damage to kill or mostly kill a lot of things.
Personally I've found it hard to actually remember to use it when at range and the quick cooldown is kind of meaningless if you aren't spamming it. I think in that case it works a lot better for close range and getting the quick melee hits in.

If you are wanting a sniping role, its not like any of the other classes have much for sniping skills either. Maya's stasis is about the only thing that can be used by a sniper at all... and I'm not sure if it has the range to be used with a sniper build (I haven't played her yet) He has some very good sniper skills, I just don't think that deception itself adds that much to it.

[Jasdoif]

Maya's stasis is about the only thing that can be used by a sniper at all... and I'm not sure if it has the range to be used with a sniper build (I haven't played her yet)The range on Phaselock is sufficient...but if the target gets suspended in a way that blocks its critical hit zone from you at that range, you'll have to live with hitting it for normal damage repeatedly, or sniping at something else.

[DiscipleofBob]

I've actually been having a lot of luck with Axton as a sniper.

Especially if I find a good ledge with enemies below that I can throw my turret down to distract them while I line up the shot.

[Douglas]

The range on Phaselock is sufficient
"sufficient"? You can phase lock something so far away it takes a sniper scope to see it as more than a dot. If you can see it, you can phase lock it.

... and then the victim will claim you cheated.:smallamused: (that's an actual in game line from some of the bandit types, not a silly player complaint)

[Yuki Akuma]

I find the duration for Decepti0n long enough to reload, aim and shoot someone in the head, personally.

You can also use Decepti0n while aiming, you know.

I guess I'm just good at playing Zer0 or something. :smalltongue:

[Anteros]

I'm not sure how deception will get at higher levels, but at lower levels it seems just a little bit too short for a lot of things. By the time you release the image and get into sniping mode you have very little time to actually aim the shot.
The other issue is that it isn't really needed against the run of the mill enemies you'll be facing, as in most cases a critical shot with a sniper rifle already does enough damage to kill or mostly kill a lot of things.
Personally I've found it hard to actually remember to use it when at range and the quick cooldown is kind of meaningless if you aren't spamming it. I think in that case it works a lot better for close range and getting the quick melee hits in.

If you are wanting a sniping role, its not like any of the other classes have much for sniping skills either. Maya's stasis is about the only thing that can be used by a sniper at all... and I'm not sure if it has the range to be used with a sniper build (I haven't played her yet) He has some very good sniper skills, I just don't think that deception itself adds that much to it.

Deception is fantastic if you are fast enough to line up your shots. It makes you a boss grinder.

[Drascin]

Alternately - don't aim. Decepti0n works on shotguns, you know. So go right up to the enemy's grill while invisible and shoot twenty explosive pellets inside its face. I did it a lot against higher HP enemies while I was sniping with Zer0 (until I had enough skill points saved up to get melee up to par, then respecced 100% bloodhed). Go invisible, run up to huge enemy, wait for Decepti0n to be almost over, shotgun, cough a bit from inhaling the red mist the enemy turned into :smalltongue:.

[Triscuitable]

Got Old Slappy's legendary shotgun. It's the most accurate shotgun in the game, made by Jakobs (shock and awe! Jakobs made something accurate?!), that puts out 3Kx7 spread of damage, with a 4 shell mag and a good scope to go with the kickass accuracy (ever shoot someone with a shotgun on a dime? I have now)!

I'll grind him at level 50 for one to top my level 44.

[GloatingSwine]

The Bee isn't a gimmick, it's just absolutely ****ing overpowered. :smalltongue:

And, technically, Law gets to the point where you won't use it at all. :smallfrown:

You won't be shooting people with it, except to proc Be Like Water for even moar melee damage.

[ex cathedra]

No, the issue is that melee doesn't do any damage in playthrough 2.5 in the first place. :smalltongue:

Anyways, a friend and I got ourselves Bee's and promptly killed you-know-who Terramorphous, obv in a couple of seconds.

If that shield doesn't get patched out of the game I'm going to be really disappointed.

[The_Jackal]

If you are wanting a sniping role, its not like any of the other classes have much for sniping skills either. Maya's stasis is about the only thing that can be used by a sniper at all... and I'm not sure if it has the range to be used with a sniper build (I haven't played her yet) He has some very good sniper skills, I just don't think that deception itself adds that much to it.

Axton is proving to be a great sniper for me, and I've haven't even invested anything into gunpowder yet. But it seems to me that I'd rather have higher raw damage than a higher critical multiplier, because snipers come with a critical bonus anyway. With +200% crit bonus, the 50-80% gun damage you get from Axton's gunpowder tree will get tripled and then some on a crit, easily meeting and exceeding the bonus crit damage Zero gets from investment into the sniping tree. Where Axton really pulls out in front is all the damage he'll get when he DOESN'T land the crit.

That's not to mention that with Axton, you have the option of swapping to another gun and still wrecking quite a bit of face.

[ex cathedra]

That's not to mention that with Axton, you have the option of swapping to another gun and still wrecking quite a bit of face.

Technically speaking, I suspect that Zero is actually better (or at least as good) at wrecking face with non-sniping guns than Axton, but he definitely can't switch between the two as easily.

[Chen]

So is there any way to make the phaselock bubble more transparent? Sometimes its fine and you can easily pick out the target's head, but sometimes it seems like its just one big purple blob making any type of precise targeting pretty difficult.

[Codemus]

I've actualy had a hard time with the Gunpowder tree. I just can't seem to deal with everything as effectively as I do with a decked out Gurrela tree. Maybe I'm just too lazy and over-rely on my turret to do the hard work.

[Rake21]

I've actualy had a hard time with the Gunpowder tree. I just can't seem to deal with everything as effectively as I do with a decked out Gurrela tree. Maybe I'm just too lazy and over-rely on my turret to do the hard work.

Though there is something immensely satisfying about dropping the turret on a group of skags or varkids, and strolling away as they're annihilated without you ever having to fire a shot.

[MCerberus]

Well I finished the game as a Siren with a Fox mod (plague at the end I think)... they really hate fire weapon users for the latter half of the game.

[Lunix Vandal]

Well I finished the game as a Siren with a Fox mod (plague at the end I think)... they really hate fire weapon users for the latter half of the game.Yeah, I think they maybe overcompensated for how comparatively awesome (or at least useful) fire was in BL1's campaign. I've found that TVH starts the fire-hate from the word go -- a third of the normal Psychos so far have been replaced by an armored, SuperBad-HP variant.

OTOH, I wouldn't have minded a nice fire weapon for fighting TVH Midge-Mong, who killed me six or seven times before I got lucky and had him get stuck on one of the balconies. At which point he ate all 8 of my 5500x10 fuseless MIRV grenades. :smallbiggrin:

[MCerberus]

OTOH, I wouldn't have minded a nice fire weapon for fighting TVH Midge-Mong, who killed me six or seven times before I got lucky and had him get stuck on one of the balconies. At which point he ate all 8 of my 5500x10 fuseless MIRV grenades. :smallbiggrin:

My grenade of choice has always been longbow sprayers. Just aim at the center of a group and your minimap suddenly is empty.

[Valaqil]

My grenade of choice has always been longbow sprayers. Just aim at the center of a group and your minimap suddenly is empty.

I think Longbow are my favorite for any situation. It's nice to be able to force a grenade hit instead of watching it uselessly bounce away.

[Krade]

Homing MIRVs are pretty sweet, too. I had one with 8 child grenades and a half second fuse. Just throw it and be comfortable with the knowledge that whatever it decides to land on will soon be removed from your vision.

Also found a homing sticky singularity yesterday. It was fun and entertaining to watch, but with only one explosion it can't compare to the damage output of a MIRV.

[polity4life]

If you're so lucky to find one, try to hold onto a homing MIRV transfusion grenade. I have one and, unfortunately, the damage isn't fantastic but it's a nice extra source of healing.

[Erloas]

I don't think I've found any longbows yet in BL2. The times I've used the sprayers I was thoroughly unimpressed with them. So far my favorites are MIRVs. I loved the one Boom Bewm dropped and used that for a long time.


So Tannis... she is well known for her... disposition towards other humans. So it really surprised me when I started my siren that one of the first times I went to see her she said something about we should go back to her bedroom to talk more about something. Forget now if it was a quest turn in or just some proximity talking. But it caught me off guard and I questioned whether or not that is really what she said. I briefly though maybe she was a lesbian, but remembered many of the ECHO recorders of hers where she has issues with both men and women. And after a minute I thought... it has to be because I'm a Siren. From what we know of Tannis a Siren is probably something she would be very interested in.
Anyone that has played Maya past level 10 or so notice anymore more about that?

[JediSoth]

I'm level 20 now (maybe 19, I forget) and I have yet to find a single Transfusion or Longbow grenade. I also didn't get a single corrosive weapon until AFTER I rescued Roland (thanks A LOT, game!).

I have, however, gotten at least half-a-dozen purple drops. I've heard of other people getting as far as I have and only seeing one purple. It's wild.

Also I <3 Tiny Tina. I want MOAR quests where I run around helping her blow stuff up, 'cause her commentary is FUNNY.

[JediSoth]

So Tannis... she is well known for her... disposition towards other humans. So it really surprised me when I started my siren that one of the first times I went to see her she said something about we should go back to her bedroom to talk more about something. Forget now if it was a quest turn in or just some proximity talking. But it caught me off guard and I questioned whether or not that is really what she said. I briefly though maybe she was a lesbian, but remembered many of the ECHO recorders of hers where she has issues with both men and women. And after a minute I thought... it has to be because I'm a Siren. From what we know of Tannis a Siren is probably something she would be very interested in.
Anyone that has played Maya past level 10 or so notice anymore more about that?

Yes, she was a quite flirty in one of our conversations. Never got it to repeat, though. What's really funny is: she doesn't actually have any private space in the Crimson Raiders HQ that could be considered "her bedroom." She's wack, yo.

[DiscipleofBob]

So Tannis... she is well known for her... disposition towards other humans. So it really surprised me when I started my siren that one of the first times I went to see her she said something about we should go back to her bedroom to talk more about something. Forget now if it was a quest turn in or just some proximity talking. But it caught me off guard and I questioned whether or not that is really what she said. I briefly though maybe she was a lesbian, but remembered many of the ECHO recorders of hers where she has issues with both men and women. And after a minute I thought... it has to be because I'm a Siren. From what we know of Tannis a Siren is probably something she would be very interested in.
Anyone that has played Maya past level 10 or so notice anymore more about that?

I noticed the quote too. As Zer0, Axton, and Salvador.

She's either crazy or crazy and bi.

Interestingly enough, most conversations after that one where she gives you her "standing offer" she seems repulsed by any character.

I found it more interesting that she apparently is on speaking terms with her ECHO recorder again, and this one is named Roland.

[MCerberus]

I noticed the quote too. As Zer0, Axton, and Salvador.

She's either crazy or crazy and bi.

Interestingly enough, most conversations after that one where she gives you her "standing offer" she seems repulsed by any character.

I found it more interesting that she apparently is on speaking terms with her ECHO recorder again, and this one is named Roland.

Tannis is an odd one, but that's her role. You feel kind of bad for her when she has a moment of lucidity. Her entire personality is the shattered remains of what she was built up to prevent her from dropping into the ranks of the murdering psychos.

Yah, Borderlands 2 is pretty depressing right under the surface.

[factotum]

The quote I remember from Tannis (speaking to her as Salvadore) went something along the lines of "Or come to my bed...open invitation!". I think she maybe really, really likes Vault Hunters... :smallwink:

[DiscipleofBob]

Tannis is an odd one, but that's her role. You feel kind of bad for her when she has a moment of lucidity. Her entire personality is the shattered remains of what she was built up to prevent her from dropping into the ranks of the murdering psychos.

Yah, Borderlands 2 is pretty depressing right under the surface.

At least she has a community with Sanctuary, and she's not stuck out in the middle of Rakk-infested ruins in seclusion or a claptrap junkyard like last game. To me that spells improvement. C-R-A-Z-Y. Improvement.

EDIT: You want someone with a depressing story in Borderlands 2...
Helena Pierce. Of course it's the only sane ones that get offed.

[Sith_Happens]

Yeah, I think they maybe overcompensated for how comparatively awesome (or at least useful) fire was in BL1's campaign.

It's not that fire was particularly better than the other elements, it's just that elemental weapons in general almost universally sucked in the first game because of the way the proccing worked, and both of the "always procs" legendaries happened to be fire.

[Erloas]

It's not that fire was particularly better than the other elements, it's just that elemental weapons in general almost universally sucked in the first game because of the way the proccing worked, and both of the "always procs" legendaries happened to be fire.

Elemental weapons sucked in the first game? This is the first I've ever heard of that.
Given my primary was Lilith with a lot of elemental skills but I always found them to be much more powerful then their standard counterparts. There weren't even that many SMGs and Pistols that didn't have elemental damage. It seemed like snipers proced almost every time with any character, and it was one of the best parts about grenades and rocket launchers.
Assault rifles and shotguns didn't have nearly as many elemental options, but most of the time I found both of those gun types to rate low on my preferences.

[Triscuitable]

She's either crazy or crazy and bi.

You say it as if it's a bad thing.


Tannis is an odd one, but that's her role. You feel kind of bad for her when she has a moment of lucidity. Her entire personality is the shattered remains of what she was built up to prevent her from dropping into the ranks of the murdering psychos.

Yah, Borderlands 2 is pretty depressing right under the surface.

She's also said in one quest introduction that she has Asperger's. While I don't agree with this statement (if she's on the spectrum, it's clearly one of the most extreme cases of autism I've ever seen portrayed anywhere).

On another note, I'm one of those guys who loves a good laugh. But I'm also one of those guys of which it's incredibly hard to make laugh. When I heard Handsome Jack say "hey buddy, how's it going? -Ah, these pretzels suck", I think I may have lost it. That deadpan delivery was absolutely genius.

Also, I hit level 50 last night. I also killed Terramorphous, and the two guys I was playing with took all the good loot. Luckily, one of them saved the Siren Slayer of Terramorphous mod for me. So that was nice. Time to start my Gunzerker playthrough.

P.S., the Warrior isn't that hard on TVH mode. Neither is Terramorphous.

[DiscipleofBob]

You say it as if it's a bad thing.

Not at all. :smallbiggrin:

Well, maybe the crazy part is a bit bad.

I also doubt her crazy is anything more than the result of her experiences on Pandora.

[Triscuitable]

I also doubt her crazy is anything more than the result of her experiences on Pandora.

I should buy a ceiling chair.

[Beowulf DW]

Well, I just got this game, and it's pretty fun. Been a while since I played any kind of FPS, but that's all right. I imagine that this would be a tad more fun with someone else to help me brutally kill things, though. Is there any kind of list I can sign up for? Or would anyone be interested in doing a little tag-team with me?

[Jasdoif]

Elemental weapons sucked in the first game? This is the first I've ever heard of that.
Given my primary was Lilith with a lot of elemental skills but I always found them to be much more powerful then their standard counterparts. There weren't even that many SMGs and Pistols that didn't have elemental damage. It seemed like snipers proced almost every time with any character, and it was one of the best parts about grenades and rocket launchers.
Assault rifles and shotguns didn't have nearly as many elemental options, but most of the time I found both of those gun types to rate low on my preferences.It wasn't that they suck, but the system was rather byzantine. Procs in general required a percentage chance and a "tech pool" cost (which can vary wildly between gun types), tech pool only regenerated while the weapon was held (unlike eridian weapons, which can recharge while unequipped), higher elemental multipliers could proc at different intensities with differing chances and costs, all three damage-over-time effects are based on the target's health (and the difference between your level and the target's) and not on anything to do with the gun itself...and none of that is directly mentioned within the game itself. Choosing weapons with guaranteed procs (launchers, revolvers, explosive sniper rifles, certain eridian weapons and legendaries) was probably as good for sanity as it was for output :smalltongue:

The explicitly listed percentages and damage on the item cards in BL2 are far easier to make sense out of.

[Codemus]

My favorite grenade mod was the orange 2x one. I'm not at home, so I can't check the name, but its a MIRV with a 0.0 fuse time that blew up, released the child grenades, then after that explosion relesed EVEN MORE child grenades. So even though I got it half way through the first playthrough, its served me well so far in TVHM.

[Erloas]

Well, I just got this game, and it's pretty fun. Been a while since I played any kind of FPS, but that's all right. I imagine that this would be a tad more fun with someone else to help me brutally kill things, though. Is there any kind of list I can sign up for? Or would anyone be interested in doing a little tag-team with me?If you are playing on Steam I would play with you, being Erloas there too. And I'm not sure how much it may have changed in a week, but I actually had pretty good luck just joining random peoples' games at release.


My favorite grenade mod was the orange 2x one. I'm not at home, so I can't check the name, but its a MIRV with a 0.0 fuse time that blew up, released the child grenades, then after that explosion relesed EVEN MORE child grenades. So even though I got it half way through the first playthrough, its served me well so far in TVHM.
That is the one I mentioned earlier. I know it drops from Boom&Bewm, if it drops from anywhere else as well I don't know.

[Tome]

Got this today for the 360. Seems fun so far, though I'm thinking it'd probably be more so with someone to play with.

So if anyone feels like it, my gamertag is Taejix.

[Tectonic Robot]

What is 'The Bee'?

[ex cathedra]

The Bee is a legendary Amplify shield (that is, a shield that cause your guns to do additional damage when your shields are full but drains your shields) that... doesn't drain your shields.

[Triscuitable]

What is 'The Bee'?

Some ridiculously overpowered Amp Shield dropped by Hunter Hellquist and prized by everyone. With "everyone" referring to Zer0. So yeah, everyone :smalltongue:.

[Erloas]

Well this is getting kind of annoying... I'm in the Dust trying to finish up The Good, the Bad, and the Mordecie and the ground seems to have broken. I noticed it first when I was trying to drive some vehicles and they keep getting stuck in the ground and sometimes falling through. And now the majority of the loot is falling through the ground too. I have restarted the game a few times and even restarted my computer once too and it doesn't seem to help.

[Triscuitable]

Verify the cache of the game, or join someone else's game.

[Lunix Vandal]

That is the one I mentioned earlier. I know it drops from Boom&Bewm, if it drops from anywhere else as well I don't know.AFAIK, Orange-quality loot is almost entirely limited to specific bosses and quests. Boom Bewm is almost certainly the only source for this MIRV++, much as Hellquist is the only source of The Bee.

And now, since my Salvador is just at that point in TVH, it's time to go farm up my new favorite grenade. :smallwink:

[Beowulf DW]

Got this today for the 360. Seems fun so far, though I'm thinking it'd probably be more so with someone to play with.

So if anyone feels like it, my gamertag is Taejix.

I'm a 360 player as well. What times are you usually on?

[Triscuitable]

I killed Laney twice before she dropped her legendary pistol. Since it was TVH+ (everything is scaled to you), it's a level 50 pistol of awesome. I've killed Henry hundreds of times, and yet she won't drop that stupid head for the Siren! GAH!

[Raithix]

So, last night I and a friend stumbled across quite an interesting hiccup in the game.
We were in Sanctuary, and he decided to redeem his golden key. When he did so, the usual thing happened: he grabbed his loot, and for whatever reason, tried to open the chest again. Much to both our surprise, the chest reopened, granting us more purple class items. Of course, we tried it again. Surprisingly, we got the same result.
45 minutes later, fatigued from grinding the black heck out of that chest, we decided we had broken the game enough and moved on.
We have no idea how we caused this to happen, but I've seen posts on other forums detailing similar incidents. Has anyone here had this happen?

[Tome]

I'm a 360 player as well. What times are you usually on?

I work fairly random hours, so I can potentially be on at pretty much any time that isn't stupidly late at night (going by GMT).

[Beowulf DW]

I work fairly random hours, so I can potentially be on at pretty much any time that isn't stupidly late at night (going by GMT).

That sounds a lot like my schedule, actually. See you on Pandora:smallsmile:.

[Archangel Yuki]

AFAIK, Orange-quality loot is almost entirely limited to specific bosses and quests. Boom Bewm is almost certainly the only source for this MIRV++, much as Hellquist is the only source of The Bee.

And now, since my Salvador is just at that point in TVH, it's time to go farm up my new favorite grenade. :smallwink:

all mobs have this really really reallllllly small chance of dropping oranges. Bosses just have a much higher chance and a smaller pool of oranges to pick from. Also, Red chests have a chance to have Orange quality loot too, but no one knows what it's limited to. I got my bouncing bunny from the red chest farm in arid badlands.
or you can try your luck at the slots as triple vault symbols drops an orange every time. but good luck getting it lol. .3% chance

[Triscuitable]

I killed Laney twice before she dropped her legendary pistol. Since it was TVH+ (everything is scaled to you), it's a level 50 pistol of awesome. I've killed Henry hundreds of times, and yet she won't drop that stupid head for the Siren! GAH!

Quoting my own post, Henry finally dropped the head! Woo!

On the downside, it looks pretty lame! Boo!

On the upside, I killed Spycho once, and he/they/it dropped the Legendary Shield "Negonator"! Woo!

[ObadiahtheSlim]

You should follow DuvalMagic on twitter. He's giving away some shift codes for free golden keys.

[ex cathedra]

I killed Henry a couple hundred times. Got the Gunzerker head (was super disappointed), her orange shield (didn't care), the Siren head (didn't care), her orange shield, her orange shield, her orange shield, and then the Assassin head.

So worth it.

[Erloas]

So checking the game integrity didn't help falling through the ground, restarting the computer didn't help, but simply traveling to another zone and coming back seems to have fixed it all.

I liked the Splinter Group quest, it was amusing.

I also just got a corrosive pistol from Moxxi from a quest and so far I'm really liking it. That, and probably 3-4 other blue items I have have red text indicating they do something more but I haven't quite figured out what most of them are.

Also are the Jakob outfits really rare or just later in the game? I've got outfits for most of the other manufacturers, a couple from some of them in fact, but nothing yet from Jakob. I also don't think I've seen anything yet from Bandit. I'm also not seeing very many heads, I like the bowler, but was hoping for some more hats (which I don't even quite understand since I almost never see my own character...).

With the inconceivable skill, does the % chance of not using ammo not use it out of the clip or not use it out of inventory? Having upwards of 50% more shots per clip is significantly more useful then being less likely to run out of ammo (which almost never happens for me). I'm going to look at respecing but not quite sure what I want to do yet.

[Lunix Vandal]

Also are the Jakob outfits really rare or just later in the game? I've got outfits for most of the other manufacturers, a couple from some of them in fact, but nothing yet from Jakob. I also don't think I've seen anything yet from Bandit. I'm also not seeing very many heads, I like the bowler, but was hoping for some more hats (which I don't even quite understand since I almost never see my own character...).

With the inconceivable skill, does the % chance of not using ammo not use it out of the clip or not use it out of inventory? Having upwards of 50% more shots per clip is significantly more useful then being less likely to run out of ammo (which almost never happens for me). I'm going to look at respecing but not quite sure what I want to do yet.I *think* I got my Jakobs skins from the slots in Sanctuary.

Inconceivable and 5So6 both give free/additional shots to your current clip, though note that Incon's bonus only kicks in when you're low on health or shields, and 5So6 is a kill-skill. On the other hand, the fact that Fight For Your Life puts you at 0 shields and 1 HP for its duration means squeezing a half-dozen cheap-as-free rockets out of a 4-shot magazine is not entirely unheard of ... :smallbiggrin:

[Triscuitable]

I killed Henry a couple hundred times. Got the Gunzerker head (was super disappointed), her orange shield (didn't care), the Siren head (didn't care), her orange shield, her orange shield, her orange shield, and then the Assassin head.

So worth it.

Did you use the Gunzerker head? I'll trade you for it. I'll also trade for one of the shields.

[ex cathedra]

I used all of the heads and threw/gave the shields away, sorry.

[Kesnit]

I just killed a rakk with a thrown shotgun. (Can't recall the company name that you throw rather than reload.) And I did it with Salvadore, not with Maya.

I had a bunch of rakks attacking me and was using the shotgun anyway. On a lark, I decided to try for the achievement for killing it with the thrown gun. To my shock, it worked!

I don't have a screenshot to prove it. (I play on the 360, so getting the screenshot would be a lot harder.) And I didn't think it would work anyway.

[Krade]

I just killed a rakk with a thrown shotgun. (Can't recall the company name that you throw rather than reload.) And I did it with Salvadore, not with Maya.

I had a bunch of rakks attacking me and was using the shotgun anyway. On a lark, I decided to try for the achievement for killing it with the thrown gun. To my shock, it worked!

I don't have a screenshot to prove it. (I play on the 360, so getting the screenshot would be a lot harder.) And I didn't think it would work anyway.

I somehow managed to pull that off with a rocket launcher (my only Tediore weapon). It took... many tries.

[Triscuitable]

I had the Bunny Legendary RL, and somehow managed to nail a Rakk when it was going in for a low-dive.

You would not believe how badass I felt. In other news, I'm looking for some Siren heads. Namely, the one that Badass enemies drop (like how Zer0's M0t0rcross head drops), and the one BNK-3R drops. I'm willing to trade for these heads, and I've got a spare M0t0Rcross head and a Legendary pistol from Laney to sweeten the deal.

Hit me up on Steam if you're interested. Name's the same.

EDIT: PhysX (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/542939635194414560/428558C72C7BA15B24C686BF9418B5D4FC5E24F0/) is really cool.

[Reynard]

I had to disable PhysX just because I'm playing a MotionSiren.

That singularity effect wreaks merry havoc with all flags/canvas roofs and particle effects, and slows my PC down to about 10FPS otherwise.

[Triscuitable]

If you're going with motion, try this build (http://talent.87bazillion.com/2/siren.php?055001455023050100000504000000) I cooked up. I don't think I've ever managed to kill this efficiently before. Inertia is just an insanely overpowered skill. It seems like a dump skill, but if your goal is to get more bullets out, an Absorb shield is what you should look for.

[Lunix Vandal]

If you're going with motion, try this build (http://talent.87bazillion.com/2/siren.php?055001455023050100000504000000) I cooked up. I don't think I've ever managed to kill this efficiently before.If the upcoming DLCs raise the level cap back to 69 (or at least 67), and thus adding Ruin to that becomes feasible ... :smalleek:

[Triscuitable]

I'm interested in making a Law/Order Maya melee build, or a Love Thumper melee build. Something in which I can strike enemies for insane amounts of damage.

[Grue Bait]

Has anyone else on Xbox had problems in Fink's Slaughterhouse? I keep finishing the first wave but wave two won't trigger for some reason.

[Douglas]

So, um, I just got back to Sanctuary after a certain mission involving a train and a 13 year old girl...

Spoilers. Seriously.
Holy. Crap.

That was incredible. Guardian Angel working for Jack?!?!?:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: Never saw it coming, but it makes so much sense, and at the same time is a perfect extreme plot twist. That, and the sequence following it, just made my day. Some of the best video game writing I've seen in a looooooong time. Congrats to Gearbox's writers, they definitely earned their pay.

Makes me wonder how they're going to explain her motives for genuinely helping you through the rest of the game - or if it's still an act (though I doubt that).

...

"Big deal, so your city's flying. What do you have that you think could possibly save you?"
"A Siren."
<city vanishes>:smalleek::smallsmile:

[Triscuitable]

[spoiler"Big deal, so your city's flying. What do you have that you think could possibly save you?"
"A Siren."
<city vanishes>:smalleek::smallsmile:[/spoiler]

'Sup?

Man, and I thought Phasewalking was awesome in the first game. Apparently it's closer to Phasewarping. I'll be damned if I didn't wish that Phasewalk didn't allow teammates to phase, too.

[KingOfLaughter]

So far I've only touched Axton, two turrets or a nuke turret, it's so hard to choose... (Nuke won out, it does like 300000 on average... :P)

[Callos_DeTerran]

So, um, I just got back to Sanctuary after a certain mission involving a train and a 13 year old girl...

Spoilers. Seriously.
Holy. Crap.

That was incredible. Guardian Angel working for Jack?!?!?:smalleek::smalleek::smalleek: Never saw it coming, but it makes so much sense, and at the same time is a perfect extreme plot twist. That, and the sequence following it, just made my day. Some of the best video game writing I've seen in a looooooong time. Congrats to Gearbox's writers, they definitely earned their pay.

Makes me wonder how they're going to explain her motives for genuinely helping you through the rest of the game - or if it's still an act (though I doubt that).

...

"Big deal, so your city's flying. What do you have that you think could possibly save you?"
"A Siren."
<city vanishes>:smalleek::smallsmile:

Oh, they explain her motives well and perfectly...in another 'holy ****!' moment that marks the point that Borderlands 2 becomes less funny and more serious.

[Triscuitable]

So far I've only touched Axton, two turrets or a nuke turret, it's so hard to choose... (Nuke won out, it does like 300000 on average... :P)

The two turrets can provide a lot of cover, and make for very useful distractions. The nuke power is very limited as well, and does closer to 90k damage. A good rocket launcher in the late game is comparable.

Here's a good suppression Commando. (http://talent.87bazillion.com/2/commando.php?00000000005523012010033240124151) The trick here is to lay down your turrets ASAP, getting a good buff for doing so. A cooldown relic and class mod will also help tremendously here: keep the buffs going, and make sure the shield on your turrets is available to provide allies with cover. Laying down a turret for a Gunzerker to spray by, or give a Siren time to recharge her shields and action skill is incredibly helpful.

[factotum]

Oh, they explain her motives well and perfectly...in another 'holy ****!' moment that marks the point that Borderlands 2 becomes less funny and more serious.

Well, it gets serious for about five minutes, but after that it's pretty much business as usual...

[Valaqil]

'Sup?

Man, and I thought Phasewalking was awesome in the first game. Apparently it's closer to Phasewarping. I'll be damned if I didn't wish that Phasewalk didn't allow teammates to phase, too.

You should fix the spoiler code you're quoting. :smallannoyed:

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Oh, they explain her motives well and perfectly...in another 'holy ****!' moment that marks the point that Borderlands 2 becomes less funny and more serious.

Well that all makes sense when you think back to the first game.

*PLOT SPOILERS FOR STORY QUEST "Where Angels Fear to Tread"*
At the end of Borderlands 1, you are treated to a scene with a Hyperion satellite. I wondered why Angel was helping me the whole time since Hyperion were the villains of this game.

[Erloas]

Well, it gets serious for about five minutes, but after that it's pretty much business as usual...
I think I'm about 1-2 storyline quests away from that particular quest... but really the majority of the game is fairly serious in nature, just not in tone.


I did love Tiny Tina and there is at least one ECHO log you find in some other area that mentions her.


So should we assume that everyone else can use the New-U stations, not just the vault hunters? Is that why all of the main bosses come back after a little while, and assumable the only way to stay dead is to not have the money to pay for a new you? But that would of course raise the question of why some people can die and others don't. And with Hyperion owning and running the New-U stations, it seems like Jack would try to shut them down to beat you. It would definitely make for an interesting mission.

[ex cathedra]

I think it's fair to assume that the New U station isn't canon, because believing otherwise leads to a lot of awkward and weak explanations. New U station exists because video game, and bosses respawn because videogame.

[Erloas]

Forgot in the previous post...
Some people at the LGS were complaining that BL2 it not original enough. They said it is fun in all the same ways as the original but there really isn't anything new with it.
I kind of thought that was the point of a sequel. I can kind of see both sides of it, on one hand you don't want to fix what isn't broken but on the other trying something new is good too. I'm really not sure what they could have added to the game that wouldn't change the feel of it too much (such as if they had added a cover system). The classes are similar to what was available in BL1, but they are notable different in some ways too. I'm not sure how many other class options there really are without adding more "magic" to the setting.
What do you guys think?

So far I'm getting exactly what I expected out of the game.

[Triscuitable]

Go back to the first game. I did, and I found so much has changed in three years, that it's hard to go back. The game isn't as brown, the AI is more refined, the shields, guns, class mods, grenade mods, etc., are so unique, and the guns feel like they're made by a specific manufacturer.

Look at an SMG in Borderlands. Is it Maliwan? No, it's Atlas. How about this shotgun? Jakobs? Nope, it's Torgue. And that rifle is Dahl, not Tediore.

The characters have more backstory, there's more humor (and a plot, even), and the last boss is exciting (and variable).

It's also a lot longer, but doesn't feel like a slog through some areas. I love it.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I would say the New-U actually is canon cause it would explain respawning bosses and whatnot. It does leave the hole of 'why couldn't Jack just shut them down to stop you' but that can be easily explained as...

He can't do it himself and when he tells Angel too...well she says she does but doesn't. Up until a certain point in the game, Jack wants you to survive and, after it, there's a very brief point in time where Jack would want to stop you from using them...and Angel is actively trying to get you to kill her so why would she do it?

After her death? Jack can't shut down the New-U stations anymore and they are canon cause there's a quest where the goal is to kill yourself and Jack acknowledges you come back to life if you actually follow through with it. Jack has time since the end of the last game to remove the former Vault Hunters from the Hyperion data-base of clients (so they don't respawn aka Roland dying) but won't for the new ones (until a certain point) and afterwards doesn't have the time to remove the new Vault Hunters from the database before he loses the capability to do so. Why not just shut them down then? Simple, they're a huge source of income and Handsome Jack probably uses them himself. Why would he turn off the New-U's when it means he wouldn't come back either?

Also, which bosses drop Siren Heads? I want to unlock more of them, but don't know which to kill.