Agents of SHIELD

[Reverent-One]

So, it's starts tonight. Figured I'd get making the thread out of the way, since someone's going to do it.

Who's excited? I know I am. Joss Whedon and the Marvel Universe? Sweeet.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh man, it doesn't comes out here in Mexico until tomorrow....lucky americans :grumblegrumble:

[Loki_42]

I'm recording it, but I might not be able to sit down and watch it 'till Thursday. But I have good hopes for it. I liked Avengers enough, even if it was a little too light for my tastes.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I enjoyed it. Much of the plot of this episode was given away in the trailer, and the ending was just a touch predictable, but on the other hand, they never pretended otherwise; foreshadowing is what it is.

Grey Wolf

[Reverent-One]

Yeah, that was fun. Pretty what you'd expect for a Joss Whedon show. And oh the references...

Lola having the hover tech from the Stark Expo in Captain America was my favorite.

Also good to see Shepard Book again. Wonder if we'll see other Whedon alums involved as well (Nathan Fillion as any superhero, please).

Spoilery spectulation:
"Tahiti..."
"He doesn't know."
"He can never know."

My first thought is that Phil's a Life Model Decoy (which fits with his subtle, but still fancy, dodge of the van door flying at him), though if SHIELD brought him back like that, you'd think they wouldn't be against him going back out in the field like they seem to be.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c
Much of the plot of this episode was given away in the trailer....

Such as it was, yes. And most, but not all, of the best lines.

I was...underwhelmed. It was fun, but apart from Phil ("His first name is Agent!") Coulson, none of the characters really impressed me. "We aren't much of a team" is a good assessment, at least for now.

I enjoyed the references to other characters and recent events in the Marvel screen universe...but by the end of the episode it was a little overboard. C'mon, folks, establish your own identity here. Joss Whedon, yes, but Whedon lite. Much of the hour was a mountain of meh.

However, I will say that the very last scene had me laughing until the credits rolled, and it's worth watching the entire episode just for that moment. Shoulda seen it coming. It's priceless.

[Shale]

Yeah, there were only a few plot points that weren't blindingly obvious from either the trailer or the formula, but the ones I didn't see coming were almost all really good, and the dialogue was fun. I'm down for the rest.

Agreed on the characters, though. Coulson's awesome, the newcomers are pretty okay, but the rest of the team is mostly just bland.

[spectralphoenix]

Pretty good, but I hope most episodes aren't going to be as heavy on the technobabble. We have three characters, one of whom seems to be the viewpoint character, whose powers revolve around talking really fast in front of a screen or hologram.

[Zach J.]

The ending scene won me over. I'll watch the next episode.

[Aotrs Commander]

...

I didn't even know this was a thing!

Apparently, we get it in the UK on Friday.

Must try and watch it: might be the first new TV show in a long time worth making some time for (I've almost stopped watching TV altogether, apart from CSI, Doctor Who and Murdoch Mysteries...)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Zach J.
The ending scene won me over. I'll watch the next episode.

So say we all.

:smalltongue:



Spoilered speculation:

As for Agent Coulson's return, that was an interesting exchange between Agent Hill and Shepherd Doctor Book, and for now I'm just assuming it's garden-variety cloning. I'm sure they'll come up with something much weirder and more entertaining (after all, this is the Whedon aisle of the Marvel-verse)) but for now "clone" lets me sleep at night.

Either that or he downloaded. :smalltongue:
.

[Reverent-One]

I enjoyed the references to other characters and recent events in the Marvel screen universe...but by the end of the episode it was a little overboard. C'mon, folks, establish your own identity here. Joss Whedon, yes, but Whedon lite. Much of the hour was a mountain of meh.

I feel like them throwing in the kitchen sink in that sense is meant as a hook to get people in by reminding them of all those cool movies, that will then be used to build off of in it's own direction.

I mean, with Caterpillar Centipede from the get go including basically every super-soldier tech they could pull from pretty much every Marvel hero's movie, if they're not going to let it stagnate, anything they add pretty much has to be something new now.

[Palanan]

Hm, maybe.

When you say "Caterpillar," do you mean Centipede? Or is there some Marvel Universe subtlety I'm not aware of?

Used to be a huge Marvel fan, but I haven't read a comic in years, so I all know these days is what's in the movies.

[Reverent-One]

Hm, maybe.

When you say "Caterpillar," do you mean Centipede? Or is there some Marvel Universe subtlety I'm not aware of?

Used to be a huge Marvel fan, but I haven't read a comic in years, so I all know these days is what's in the movies.

...Uh, yes, I did. :smallredface:

Wow, they only said it about a dozen times. I swear I watched the episode.

[Talyn]

That was awesome! Just watched it with the wife.

So, it looks like what's left of AIM is shaping up to be the first villainous organization that our new friends from SHIELD are going up against. We know from Iron Man 3 that the big problem with Extremis is that most people's physiology isn't robust enough to handle it, and then they explode - splicing in the same formula that built the Abomination (gamma-irradiated blood + the Mark II super soldier serum) is actually a pretty good temporary work-around.

Of course, the super-serum still enhances your underlying personality to extreme levels - so a guy who feels betrayed by the world is going to become a berserk vigilante, which is exactly what happened! Point to the writers, they really know their Marvel Cinematic universe.

Let's see - the 3d simulation was clearly a knock-off of Tony Stark's 3-d voxel screens, though it was sufficiently different that I'm assuming it was a SHIELD knock-off rather than appropriated or borrowed Stark tech.

My only complaint that is Fitz and Simmons drop their technobabble so fast, and in Fitz' case with such an accent, that I had to stop, rewind and re-listen to what they said three or four times. And you can't just let it flow over you, because some of it was plot-critical.

Oh, and Skye admitting that she cosplayed as Iron Man and joined the geeky crowds outside Stark Tower absolutely made my night. Funniest moment on the show.

[Talyn]

Oh, and I forgot to add...

How the hell did AIM get ahold of gamma-irradiated blood? The only people in the MCU who have access to that are Dr. Banner and General Ross' Advanced Soldier program (who still have the Abomination in custody). Neither seem like the type who would share gamma blood with an organization that just tried to kill the President...

Unless it's actually General Ross who got ahold of Extremis, instead of AIM getting a hold of gamma blood. Ooh, that would be AWESOME.

[TheEmerged]

Bad news: my old DVD recorder chose tonight to give up the ghost. Due to some hardware compatibility issues (read: my TV is ancient) I'm at least a couple of weeks from getting one working.

Question: anybody know if ABC.com or another legitimate site is going to stream\post the episodes?

[Shale]

It's going to be posted on Hulu. The pilot ought to be up tomorrow, but sometimes the networks get stupid about that. Check, though!

[Weirdlet]

I say all of you before me have good points, but my one strong reaction relates to the resolution of the premiere's mystery of the week-

I was not aware that crying in relief was an option.

[Traab]

Oh, and I forgot to add...

How the hell did AIM get ahold of gamma-irradiated blood? The only people in the MCU who have access to that are Dr. Banner and General Ross' Advanced Soldier program (who still have the Abomination in custody). Neither seem like the type who would share gamma blood with an organization that just tried to kill the President...

Unless it's actually General Ross who got ahold of Extremis, instead of AIM getting a hold of gamma blood. Ooh, that would be AWESOME.

Well, if I had to guess, They have agents everywhere, im sure they have a plant somewhere in Ross' outfit. That seems to be a fairly SOP for these evil organizations. Spies everywhere. Plus there are like a dozen different times the hulk has bled during one of his rampages iirc. Someone managed to snag a sample without getting caught during the distracting melee perhaps.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Quick question for the people who have seen it, where does it fits in the MCU timeline? Since Coulson is alive I am assuming it is set before Avengers, but since it is S.H.I.E.L.D and they love their Life model decoys one can wonder.

[leafman]

^Post IM3

To build on what Traab was saying, it would only take a small sample. Samuel Sterns (aka Leader, just a guess) was able to make a lab full of Bruce Banner's blood from the sample Banner sent. Actually, now that I think about it, the blood could have been obtained from Sterns' lab if it wasn't secured and destroyed.

[Legato Endless]

Quick question for the people who have seen it, where does it fits in the MCU timeline? Since Coulson is alive I am assuming it is set before Avengers, but since it is S.H.I.E.L.D and they love their Life model decoys one can wonder.

It's set after all the currently released films. A plot point from Iron Man 3 is directly referenced in the episode. Coulson's unexplained recovery is obviously going to be a running subplot for season one.

Life model seems like the best guess, since it leaves his death in Avengers intact, but it could be anything from something unexplained with Loki's scepter to a dark secret of SHIELD. We don't have anything yet.

[navar100]

Coulson is too competent. Perhaps a better term is self-assured. In the movies he's not an idiot, but he is wholesome. I'm thinking the change in his personality is on purpose as part of the how of his resurrection. We know Nick Fury values him, but in the movies we're never shown what it is about Coulson to make him a highly valued SHIELD Agent. The pilot is the first time we're shown it.

As typical someone has to be the patsy. This episode it's Grant Ward. We're shown his competence, behaves like a cocky jerk, and then gets humiliated with truth serum. I hope he doesn't become the whipping boy every episode. That will get old and tiresome real fast.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Cool, then now I can avoid this thread in peace until tomorrow when I can watch the first episode myself, cheers!

[Ascension]

Dialogue being too witty and snappy to feel real is a problem with all Whedon stuff to some degree, but I generally really enjoy his style anyway. Agents of SHIELD is the first time I can remember that it really kind of bothered me. Not all of it, but some of it. It was a disconcerting feeling, being annoyed by Whedonisms.

That said, I still enjoyed the show, even when it was trying so hard to be too clever for its own good, and I'm on board for the foreseeable future.

[Legato Endless]

Coulson is too competent. Perhaps a better term is self-assured. In the movies he's not an idiot, but he is wholesome. I'm thinking the change in his personality is on purpose as part of the how of his resurrection. We know Nick Fury values him, but in the movies we're never shown what it is about Coulson to make him a highly valued SHIELD Agent. The pilot is the first time we're shown it.

As typical someone has to be the patsy. This episode it's Grant Ward. We're shown his competence, behaves like a cocky jerk, and then gets humiliated with truth serum. I hope he doesn't become the whipping boy every episode. That will get old and tiresome real fast.

Have you seen the cinematic shorts that go with the films? They give a slightly better picture of his role as an agent. One of which at least paints him as being a pretty deft manipulator.

In Thor he seems to predict and capitize on the decisions of the main characters to get what he wants in the end, while being subtle enough about the whole thing to not get caught like Fury occasionally is. Granted Thor is pretty straightforward and Jane is the most token love interest in the series, so might not be that impressive.

[Ramza00]

Quick question for the people who have seen it, where does it fits in the MCU timeline? Since Coulson is alive I am assuming it is set before Avengers, but since it is S.H.I.E.L.D and they love their Life model decoys one can wonder.
Reports of My Death Were Greatly Exaggerated

[Anderlith]

Roads? Where we're going we don't need... roads!

Really enjoyed the pilot, & I can't wait to see more. I hope they can continue to display interesting villains without too much of a power creep to where they are taking out raging superhumans without effort.

[Kitten Champion]

I enjoyed it. As was mentioned the repeated trailers/advertisements rendered a lot of the better moments kind of flat. This was very much about the meet-and-greet, getting everything necessary out there while establishing some early plot hooks, and making people comfortable with the idea of a stripped down televised Marvel setting.

It was a serviceable pilot with good dialogue here or there. They're carrying on the more fun approach to super-spydom consistent with the movies, which I expected but still appreciate given the relatively dour state of American prime-time television.

I really like that Ming-na Wen and Ron Glass are in this, I hope they're utilized well.

It would seem from the preview of the next episode this is going to be more serialized than I assumed.

[BRC]

The episode seemed very predictable, partially because so much of it had featured in trailers, and partially because I could recognize it for what it is: setting up the series, providing a few beat moments for each character so we can check off some traits.
Ward is Badass and Aggressive.
Melinda May is Badass and Reluctant.
Fitzs and Simmons are Science.
Skye is superhero fangirl+1337H@X

The Dialogue is also the most Whedonesque thing I've ever seen. That rapid shifting in tone from dramatic (Welcome to level Seven) to Comical (That corner is really dark, I couldn't help myself) is kind of Whedon's signature. I could easily see it getting annoying though, especially if you have writers intentionally trying to mimic it.

Also, I'm very much enjoying the subtle references, like the mention of a "Journey Into Mystery" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_into_Mystery), or almost saying the Tao of Peter Parker.

Currently crossing my fingers for the appearances of these Bros (http://marvel.wikia.com/Tracksuit_Draculas_(Earth-616)).

[Anderlith]

Can anyone confirm if it was Gunn from Angel playing the "Hooded Hero"? I'm pretty sure it is but idk

[Sharoth]

Yes, that was Gunn from Angel.

[Kitten Champion]

Can anyone confirm if it was Gunn from Angel playing the "Hooded Hero"? I'm pretty sure it is but idk

Yeah, that's J. August Richards.

[Sharoth]

I hope that we see more of the "Hooded Hero".

[Shale]

The pilot is up on Hulu and ABC.com, for anyone who was waiting on that.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by BRC
Skye is superhero fangirl+1337H@X

Skye was there for a certain demographic, and the least plausible of anyone in the group.

Also, what exactly does "1337H@X" mean? My best guess is "leet hacks," roughly "cool hacker babe," but it would be nice to have a translation from a native speaker.

:smalltongue:

[BRC]

Skye was there for a certain demographic, and the least plausible of anyone in the group.

Also, what exactly does "1337H@X" mean? My best guess is "leet hacks," roughly "cool hacker babe," but it would be nice to have a translation from a native speaker.

:smalltongue:

If you can't read 1337H@X then your H@X are not sufficiently 1337

Also, thoughts on Coulson? Life Model Decoy? Brainwashed Skrull? Injected full of watered-down extremis?

[Shale]

My guess is that his "therapist" was named Wanda Maximoff. He did say it was magical.

[hamlet]

I rather enjoyed the pilot. The trademark snappy Whedonesque dialogue is always enjoyable to me. Hey, it's a freakin' comic book on screen, not a realistic show. Snappy dialogue comes part and parcel with the whole package!

Yeah, Skye was fairly superfluous except as a means of pushing the "hooded hero" out into public and . . . you know . . . hot chick (though I'll admit the Doctor was much more interesting to me).

Don't know if Coulson is an LMD or not. That seems like the obvious answer, though the show wasn't exactly subtle about any other reference it made.

Lola made it worth the watch to say the least. Apparantely, they worked out the kinks.:smallbiggrin:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by BRC
If you can't read 1337H@X then your H@X are not sufficiently 1337

I asked a friendly question. Shouldn't be that hard to give a friendly answer.

:smallannoyed:

[Dienekes]

I asked a friendly question. Shouldn't be that hard to give a friendly answer.

:smallannoyed:

You got it right. Leet hax, or elite hacking.

So watched the pilot. Hmm. So far, interested but not impressed. Coulson was awesome, but besides him? Every nerd in the show is either annoying (Sky) or I can't understand half of what they say (The Brits). The second was particularly aggravating because I have a feeling there were at least a few jokes when the Brits talked, from the snippets I could get through. Secret Agent guy was ok but nothing special, and I'm at least interested in what the pilot's deal is.

I'll keep watching for the next couple of episodes, but I hope the characters start getting interesting.

[BRC]

I asked a friendly question. Shouldn't be that hard to give a friendly answer.

:smallannoyed:

You were correct in your initial guess.
1337H@X= Elite Hacks= Indicating that she is a stock "Superhacker" character who it will be assumed can get into any computer system very quickly.

[Fjolnir]

I liked the first episode (just caught it on Hulu) I think we are dealing with some sort of actual resurrected Colson as he remembers the afterlife.

With regards to Centipede: Why not Hydra instead of AIM? In the comics they have a similar origin story to the one in the Captain America movie but developed a tendency to have fingers in all the Pies...

[BRC]

I liked the first episode (just caught it on Hulu) I think we are dealing with some sort of actual resurrected Colson as he remembers the afterlife.

With regards to Centipede: Why not Hydra instead of AIM? In the comics they have a similar origin story to the one in the Captain America movie but developed a tendency to have fingers in all the Pies...

We don't know who was beind Centipede, just that they were using AIM tech, among others. It could very well be Hydra.

[Cuaqchi]

Given the reference to "failing to cut off this head" I would lean towards Hydra - "Cut off one head two more will replace it" - but AIM is a great addition to the universe if they can find a way to avoid the Beekeeper suits...

[Shale]

Also if the season finale involves MODOK I will explode from joy.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Dienekes and BRC
*explanation*

Thank you.


Originally Posted by Dienekes
So far, interested but not impressed. Coulson was awesome, but besides him? Every nerd in the show is either annoying (Sky) or I can't understand half of what they say (The Brits).

I have extremely good hearing, and I was really trying to pay attention, and even so I couldn't follow most of the Brit-babble. Much too fast.

In fact, the only characters I liked were Coulson and the ninja-pilot-woman. She seems to have a scrap of depth to her, but the others really are cardboard stock.

As for a comment earlier, about power creep and the S.H.I.E.L.D. guys taking on supers by themselves--when Coulson was impaled back on the helicarrier, he got off a nice shot with a really impressive weapon. (At least, impressive by ordinary standards--and it did manage to punch Loki through a heavy bulkhead, which is pretty good when you think about it.)

So, it's already established that S.H.I.E.L.D. has access to this kind of technology, meaning they're already a decent ways up the power curve. I'm assuming that Coulson's team (such as they are) will be working containment on problems right up to the edge of the "Avengers assemble" threshold.

That said, as I mentioned, I'm pretty rusty on my Marvel Universe these days. But it's kudos to them that I'm really eager to see the next episode.



Also, something I meant to comment on earlier:

I was actually expecting a cameo from Nick Fury at the end, but I guess Sammy L. is more than they can afford. Or they didn't want to steal Coulson's thunder. Really, I'm happier with Lola.

:smallbiggrin:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Currently crossing my fingers for the appearances of these Bros (http://marvel.wikia.com/Tracksuit_Draculas_(Earth-616)).

Bro, those bros might show up, bro, but only if that Hawkguy bro shows up and does some awkguy-ing instead of being memory-controlled-ing, bro.
Maybe we get to see a devil-dog controlled by (not even that good) pizza (http://marvel.wikia.com/Lucky_(Earth-616)), bro.

[BRC]

Bro, those bros might show up, bro, but only if that Hawkguy bro shows up and does some awkguy-ing instead of being memory-controlled-ing, bro.
Maybe we get to see a devil-dog controlled by (not even that good) pizza (http://marvel.wikia.com/Lucky_(Earth-616)), bro.

Bro, Seriously. Seriously Bro, the Bros would be an easy came(br)o, that fits the existing power-level of the series.
Bro.

Though it's slightly more likely that Avengers 2 re-creates the Black Widow "tied to a chair" scene with Hawkeye Tied to a chair being menaced by Bros.

For any Bros who are confused (http://slabbulkhead.com/image/61504225065)

Beesuits are out, Tracksuits are in.

[Cikomyr]

I like Melinda May. I wonder why she is so... reticent. And why her being there was supposed to be such a significant thing.

Coulson was great. This character progressed so much since his initial Iron Man appareance, where he was just Ye Another Extra randomly selected.


The plot was basic, off course. But it's the pilot, so I'll be forgiving.

[Fjolnir]

I'm wondering if Mysterious Backpack Guy is going to be Plot Relevant; because it kind of stood out to me. For those people who saw the episode and missed what I am referring to, right after the building explodes and mike runs into the (totally empty) alley to scale the building, there is an unidentified man leaving the scene with a backpack and mike bumps into him. No lines are exchanged or anything, just a guy whose face isn't seen leaving an area where an explosion Just Happened...

[JadedDM]

I'm wondering if Mysterious Backpack Guy is going to be Plot Relevant; because it kind of stood out to me. For those people who saw the episode and missed what I am referring to, right after the building explodes and mike runs into the (totally empty) alley to scale the building, there is an unidentified man leaving the scene with a backpack and mike bumps into him. No lines are exchanged or anything, just a guy whose face isn't seen leaving an area where an explosion Just Happened...

I think he was just a random citizen trying to flee the destruction.

[Fjolnir]

he seemed to be walking awfully casually for that...

[Cikomyr]

I think he was just a random citizen trying to flee the destruction.

It's Joss Whedon.

There is no such thing as surviving random citizens

[Fjolnir]

Also, is that really the quality of bad guy hawkeye gets to deal with? I deal with that every day to go get my mail...

[snoopy13a]

So is Coulson a robot, a clone-robot, a robot-clone, Coulson's brain inserted in a clone, an alien that looks like Coulson, a dinosaur brought to the future that magically looks like Coulson, Professor Charles Xavier's soul in Coulson's body, or what?

I just watched it on Hulu and it just seemed like deja vu. The dialogue, the character roles, the "twists," etc. I've been on this rodeo before and after Dollhouse I'm not sure if I'm up for more Joss.

Also, I have problems understanding Fitzsimmons (an across the pond synthesis of Willow, Fred, Kylie, and Topher), even before the technobabble. And is Fitz Irish, Scottish or English?

[shadow_archmagi]

As is my tradition, I completely bypassed all trailers, so nothing was spoiled for me! Ha! Ha, I say to those of you complaining that by watching bits of it ahead of time there was less new content.


I liked it pretty thoroughly. Probably the place I came closest to being unhappy was with the character who could effortlessly hack S.H.I.E.L.D. and whose dialogue almost entirely consisted of attempts to make shield look incompetent. That said, I'm a big XCOM fan, so I'll be watching this show very eagerly.

[snoopy13a]

It's Joss Whedon.

There is no such thing as surviving random citizens

And unfortunately we know that. In Whedon's world, a cigar is never just a cigar--and that's the problem.

[Talyn]

Fitz is Scottish (or, at least his actor is and he's making no effort to hide that accent), and Simmons is British.

Given that Hill made a big point of telling Dr. Book that Coulson can "never know" the true story behind his recovery, my guess is that he's a "next generation" life-model decoy that doesn't know he isn't human. Shades of Blade Runner abound, of course.

Skye and Ward are being set up at potential love interests to each other, with their belligerent sexual tension and their ability to accidentally see past each other's bluster and BS. I agree that Skye is clearly written to be a sex symbol geek-girl for male geeks to admire; she's a talented computer hacker who is pretty but awkward and has a cute obsession with superheroes that borders on the fangirlish, hell she even admits to cosplaying as Iron Man! But that's not a bad thing as long as there are OTHER aspects to her character - she is there to remind the rest of the cast, who are literally above it all in their flying command center, about the real human consequences of SHIELD's actions. She can also be the audience-surrogate "outsider" that Coulson can explain SHIELD to, similar to Simon Tam's role on Firefly.

[BWR]

Meh.
I'll probably watch it but the first episode didn't impress me. Better than most of the drek on tv, but that's not saying much. Hopefully it will improve.

[TheDarkDM]

I'm surprised that no one has put forth the possibility that New!Coulson is going to end up being the MCU's version of The Vision. That's been my theory ever since they announced Ultron as the big bad of the next Avengers movie.

[Rakaydos]

So, characters...

Coulsen: Suave leader with no powers.... or so he thinks.
Spy-agent: He wishes he was James Bond. Guns and unarmed fighting
Pilot Ninja: Mysterious... we'll find out more later.
Fitzsimmons: One character, two bodies
Skye: Geek girl, and a SHIELD outsider.
Hooded Man: Their token Super, their tank and melee beatstick. Also a SHIELD outsider.

[BRC]

So, characters...

Coulsen: Suave leader with no powers.... or so he thinks.
Spy-agent: He wishes he was James Bond. Guns and unarmed fighting
Pilot Ninja: Mysterious... we'll find out more later.
Fitzsimmons: One character, two bodies
Skye: Geek girl, and a SHIELD outsider.
Hooded Man: Their token Super, their tank and melee beatstick. Also a SHIELD outsider.

I think Hooded Man isn't going to be a series regular. It looks like he's getting de-powered anyway.

[Rakaydos]

I think Hooded Man isn't going to be a series regular. It looks like he's getting de-powered anyway.

Curing Extremis just means he has all the OTHER super soldier programs plugged into him. :/

[Ascension]

The first outfit we see Skye in did not do her favors in terms of "standing out as an original character," given how much her (http://images.wikia.com/marvelmovies/images/9/95/Skye_Agents_of_SHIELD.jpg) colorful-long-sleeved-shirt-with-dark-vest look resembled Kaylee's (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100426173315/firefly/images/8/8d/Kaylee_sit.jpg) colorful-long-sleeved-shirt-with-dull-overalls look, particularly when seated in the booth with Mike. My first reaction was "she looks like River and Kaylee had a daughter!" (There is probably fanfic where that precise sequence of events happens, but let us move on and not dwell on that fact.)

In addition, Summer Glau has already played the "freedom-of-information hacktivist becomes superhero sidekick" role, though I realize The Cape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cape_%282011_TV_series%29) was enough of a flop that most people won't recognize the similarities (and hopefully as the series progresses there won't be many similarities, since Skye's already transitioning out of that role by joining SHIELD).

[Fjolnir]

I will probably take some flack for saying this but I for one LOVED The Cape.
I thought it was a pretty spot on deconstruction of the superhero genre within a superhero show. You need a REASON to be running around in a mask, tights and they gave the protagonist that, I think that a lot of people got turned off by the pilot and that killed the show because it found its feet and disappeared...:smallfrown:

Besides, the hacker/hero relationship on television is pretty much rooted in Eyes Only and Max from Dark Angel, so much so that both the cape AND this show pretty much rip the whole concept wholesale...

[Ascension]

Hey, I loved The Cape myself, I'm just saying that it did not perform well as a television series.

As for Dark Angel... I honestly don't think I've ever heard of it before! I can see how it may have been influential, particularly given some of the names involved, but I'm not at all familiar with it myself.

[Fjolnir]

It was a very good show that I got into when I was younger for Jessica Alba and later on when I saw it on SyFy as one of their "let's show every episode of a television show back to back for about 4 days straight" programming blocks between 9am-4pm I was really struck by the consistency of the show, as well as having a personal thing for conceptual dystopia...

[Philistine]

Curing Extremis just means he has all the OTHER super soldier programs plugged into him. :/

J. August Richards got a guest star credit for the pilot. Maybe he'll be back, maybe even as a regular (it's happened before) - but as of now it does not appear that Mike is going to be on the regular roster.

[Cikomyr]

Am I the only one who thinks that Robyn being an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. actually explains a lot of thing?

[snoopy13a]

Am I the only one who thinks that Robyn being an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. actually explains a lot of thing?

Her first assignment was as a recruiter . . . at the mall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY_bhVSGKEg

Eventually, she was promoted to their space program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hqklWJxUTo

[Cikomyr]

Her first assignment was as a recruiter . . . at the mall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY_bhVSGKEg

Eventually, she was promoted to their space program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hqklWJxUTo

More like her uncanny knowledge of guns. Her incredible survival skills.

[navar100]

I will probably take some flack for saying this but I for one LOVED The Cape.
I thought it was a pretty spot on deconstruction of the superhero genre within a superhero show. You need a REASON to be running around in a mask, tights and they gave the protagonist that, I think that a lot of people got turned off by the pilot and that killed the show because it found its feet and disappeared...:smallfrown:

Besides, the hacker/hero relationship on television is pretty much rooted in Eyes Only and Max from Dark Angel, so much so that both the cape AND this show pretty much rip the whole concept wholesale...

The Cape was awesome!

I know David Lyons has done other roles, but I only first knew of him through this show. It was rather disheartening watching him be the villain Sebastian Monroe in Revolution.

[Fjolnir]

Don't get me started on Revolution....

How do they not have electricity AND the ability to manufacture steam powered technology?!

[Anderlith]

I just want to say that I love the woman cast as Maria Hill. I don't know why but she's awesome. I was wondering if she would decide to join the show since How I Met Your Mother was finally ending. I'm glad she did & I really hope she is a show regular.

[Eldan]

That was... dull. Really, quite dull. Nothing that stood out as interesting to me. I'll give it another episode or two, but I don't think it will grab me. Whedon's shows usually have at least interesting characters and funny lines, even if the plots aren't that great. This didn't have that.

Well, one funny line. Level 7 was funny.

[Cikomyr]

That was... dull. Really, quite dull. Nothing that stood out as interesting to me. I'll give it another episode or two, but I don't think it will grab me. Whedon's shows usually have at least interesting characters and funny lines, even if the plots aren't that great. This didn't have that.

Well, one funny line. Level 7 was funny.

Did we watch the same episode?

the whole "interrogation" scene with the Sodium Penthatol was hilarious.

[TheEmerged]

So, I caught it on Hulu, thanks.

Enjoyable enough. I wasn't exactly wowed, but I'll certainly continue watching. I got over my disappointment it was Random Monster O' The Week instead of Luke Cage quickly enough. I have to say Mike looked a lot less heroic when you realize he had a motivation to rescue people in that lab...

Color me unsurprised but disappointed nonetheless that they're going to be dragging out the "how is Coulson still alive" question. It was rather obvious in Avengers that he wasn't "dead dead".

Also, I have to confess I don't get why everyone is saying Skye is there to appeal to males when she's, at best, the fourth best-looking woman on the cast (I think she beat out the Centipede doctor). :smallwink:

Finally, pardon me while I dig out my Captain America DVD and see if that was in fact Lola...

[Eldan]

Did we watch the same episode?

the whole "interrogation" scene with the Sodium Penthatol was hilarious.

I thought it was mostly just weird.

[Hopeless]

I was wondering if...

Phil Coulson is actually the original Human Torch and was simply repaired and reactivated.

He's still suffering from amnesia from his time during the second world war and the reason they're concerned is because they don't actually know who built him and when he was recruited into SHIELD they didn't let the other agents know that he's actually an android which is something he doesn't know either.

I recall seeing the original Human Torch costume at the same event where Stark's flying car was demonstrated in the Captain America movie and Coulson's affinity for that time such as fascination with Cap and those cards he collected that I'm wondering if he'll eventually remember...

What do you think?

[TheEmerged]

Did we watch the same episode?

the whole "interrogation" scene with the Sodium Penthatol was hilarious.

Maybe my brain is too used to espionage thrillers, but are you presuming that scene was being played straight? All you know about what was in that injector is what you were told was in there. Think about it - why would that injection make him sit down and stop being an wanna-be-alpha male? It's entirely possible that was an act for Skye's benefit.

Of course it's equally possible I'm overthinking it :smalltongue:

[pita]

Dollhouse needed some time to get its magic on. I'm going to give this show a chance, partly because there are a few good Whedon moments in it already.
"Sorry, that corner was really dark and I couldn't help myself. I think there's a bulb out."
It's also got a good fake-out protagonist with Ward.
Not perfect by any means, but the only Whedon show that was consistent in quality was Firefly, possibly because it only got one season.

[Dienekes]

Dollhouse needed some time to get its magic on. I'm going to give this show a chance, partly because there are a few good Whedon moments in it already.
"Sorry, that corner was really dark and I couldn't help myself. I think there's a bulb out."
It's also got a good fake-out protagonist with Ward.
Not perfect by any means, but the only Whedon show that was consistent in quality was Firefly, possibly because it only got one season.

*cough* Heart of Gold and The Message*cough*

Actually, part of why I was a bit disappointed was because I keep comparing this first episode with the first of Firefly (in intended order, not shown order). They both were of a small cast with a mission of the week kind of story, but right off the bat we had tensions played up between Jayne and Mal, between Mal and Book, between Book and Inara, with a plot that surprised and a hidden secret agent. Badger, being Badger. It was great.

This one was very basic in comparison, and the characters seem less complex to boot.

Also, since such a big deal was being made of secret agent guy being bad with people, it would be nice if he actually was. Not just, a little awkward, or a little arrogant, but actually disregarding of others and actually make him the token evil teammate (or as close as you will find for the indisputably good secret government organization this is supposed to be).

[Mauve Shirt]

I really really really want this to be good. This was a pretty weak pilot, but I'm going to hope and hope and hope really hard and maybe Joss won't let me down.
I give it til episode 6 to impress me. Episode 6 is when Dollhouse got good.

[Emmerask]

For a pilot it was a pretty big letdown tbh.

Well first what I liked:
- the production value is very good
- I liked the humor

What I did not like:
- the pilot is a generic "monster of the week" episode ?!?!
- the characters are fairly generic and really not that interesting

*the only one I actually cared for is the "hooded hero", he has something resembling motivation and story, the rest are cardboard cutouts which I care nothing at all about.
granted I am no comic fan and dont follow any of the superhero stuff outside of movies, so maybe for some fans that actually know the backstories to the characters it was more enjoyable :smallwink:


The first 10 minutes or so where actually really strong, the rescue from the building was very good, the "bond" scene where we learned that the protagonist is a badass - very good and afterwards the recruitment "to level 7 clearance" was nice.
Everything thereafter was really kind of boring and it kind of felt as if they dont know what to do with the series.

Hopefully future episodes will be better.

[McStabbington]

*the only one I actually cared for is the "hooded hero", he has something resembling motivation and story, the rest are cardboard cutouts which I care nothing at all about.
granted I am no comic fan and dont follow any of the superhero stuff outside of movies, so maybe for some fans that actually know the backstories to the characters it was more enjoyable


It's a pilot. The objective is to show two things: one, the basic standard format for an episode, and two, to lay down the possibility of more episodes. In those two objectives, it was wildly successful. It established the formula that the show would largely follow (NCIS meets the Marvel Universe), and it established the characters quickly and efficiently while teasing about a character problem for multiple members of the ensemble. Coulson doesn't know about what happened to him on the heli-carrier, Melinda May is still dealing with issues related to going back into the field, Skye deleted her entire background for some unnamed reason, etc.

If you're disappointed because it compares unfavorably to the Firefly pilot, to be honest I would suggest that your biggest problem is your expectations, not the show you're watching. For one thing, the Firefly pilot is one of the five best pilots I've ever seen; saying that it doesn't measure up to that pilot is like being meh on a season-ender because it just isn't as good as "The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1".

For another, you might actually want to go back and watch the Firefly pilot again, because in that pilot, most of the characters are presented in broad brush strokes as well, with the nuance only to be gradually filled in later. Jayne is the old western stereotype of the hired gun who can't be trusted, Kaylee is the adorable tech head, Mal is the ex-white knight who has lost his faith, Inara is the hooker with a heart of gold. I mean, character-wise, the pilot might as well have taken characters straight out of Gunsmoke and plopped them in this new star system, because they had all been done before. It was only later that they became the nuanced, layered characters we all loved about that show.

[Empedocles]

I was pretty disappointed that Mike wasn't Luke Cage, and the centipede thing sort of came out of left field. Extremis? Really? Right after it was introduced as a major plot point in Iron Man 3, you make it a major plot point in your pilot? It seemed a little lazy. The chitauri neural link was more intriguing.

Also, shouldn't Mike have been kind of a lot stronger? Like, Hulk strong? Sure, he wasn't exposed to the same levels of gamma radiation but the super serum and Extremis together...nevermind, not important.

Other than that, it gave me everything I was expecting. I trust whedon enough to continue watching, and believe that the characters will become a little more fleshed out.

[LaZodiac]

Also for what it's worth the pilot really got me hooked. The hint (read: blinding obviousness) of Coulson being...Not Coulson and the ideas of how he will react to this when he inevitably learns it (he can't go forever without getting a wound hard enough to show his mech body). And then that little tease at the end of the episode which gets Syke to join, as well as what Project Centipede is (I know it's Extremus, but is it connected to the loser from Ironman 3 or not? Since it seems more advanced since it involves alien tech and such).

For me it was very interesting.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ascension
The first outfit we see Skye in did not do her favors.... My first reaction was "she looks like River and Kaylee had a daughter!"

I'm...happy to say that did not occur to me. I was more focused on how annoying she was.

Ward, however, is vastly more annoying.


Originally Posted by Eldan
That was... dull. Really, quite dull. Nothing that stood out as interesting to me. I'll give it another episode or two, but I don't think it will grab me. Whedon's shows usually have at least interesting characters and funny lines, even if the plots aren't that great.

As others have noted, Whedon's shows also tend to take a few episodes to get rolling.

Besides, despite virtually everyone else being severely annoying, Pilot Ninja Woman seems interesting. Plus, Coulson and Lola make a cute couple.

:smalltongue:


Originally Posted by TheEmerged
*overthought explanation*

Of course it's equally possible I'm overthinking it.

:smalltongue:



Originally Posted by McStabbington
...the [Firefly] pilot might as well have taken characters straight out of Gunsmoke and plopped them in this new star system, because they had all been done before. It was only later that they became the nuanced, layered characters we all loved about that show.

I would say that in most cases, the acting was good enough to give us some indication in the pilot of how complex these people could be. You didn't mention Simon and River, and their story--or its broadest outlines--was presented up front, and instantly made them the sympathetic focus of the pilot. I'd say there was plenty of nuance, in those two and in most of the others, right from the very start.

[Cikomyr]

I would say that in most cases, the acting was good enough to give us some indication in the pilot of how complex these people could be. You didn't mention Simon and River, and their story--or its broadest outlines--was presented up front, and instantly made them the sympathetic focus of the pilot. I'd say there was plenty of nuance, in those two and in most of the others, right from the very start.

Well, in that case, Mike and his son were given the same treatment. I was really rooting for Mike to survive, and my heart almost stopped at the end before I understood what really happened.

now, it will all go to waste if Mike never comes back.

[Nadevoc]

The pilot was alright, not great. Not really sure about the cast of characters, though.

Coulson's pretty good and has the interesting hidden backstory.

Skye's character (Super hacker! Hacks into your spy organization then gets recruited!) is one that I'm just done with in general. Hopefully there's a lot of development on that front.

The two scientists were alright. I thought the super-fast-talk was a good way to handle the technobabble since the viewer doesn't really have to catch/understand it. They had a bit more technobabble than I'd like, but I'm hoping they'll reduce the amount in future episodes now that they've established the technobabble nature of the characters; that said, three tech characters (Skye gets lumped in here) feels like they're going to have a lot of technobabble.

The alpha male spy dude was pretty meh, but we'll see if there's more to him later.

The "just the driver" chick is interesting. Really, it's her and Coulson that I'm invested in so far.


I'm actually surprised to see how many people here are happy about Lola. I didn't like the last bit at all, nor did my coworker that I talked to about the show.

[LaZodiac]

Skye's character (Super hacker! Hacks into your spy organization then gets recruited!) is one that I'm just done with in general. Hopefully there's a lot of development on that front.

The two scientists were alright. I thought the super-fast-talk was a good way to handle the technobabble since the viewer doesn't really have to catch/understand it. They had a bit more technobabble than I'd like, but I'm hoping they'll reduce the amount in future episodes now that they've established the technobabble nature of the characters; that said, three tech characters (Skye gets lumped in here) feels like they're going to have a lot of technobabble.

Skye hid an SD card in her bra, she's DEFINITLY gonna get some more characterization and stuff. She's hiding more then she lets on.

I like how he has a bunch of scanner drones named after the seven dwarves. It's silly. And...we didn't actually get any technobabble. If you count the things Fitz and Simmons are saying to each other about the gun, and the stuff when they scan the site, I wouldn't classify it as technobabble. The former because it's a joke, the latter because it actually progresses the plot. It says things that don't actually matter, but it makes sense enough for the plot to be advanced by it in an understandable way, unlike how bad Trek uses technobabble.

[Cikomyr]

For me, Fitz and Simmons are set up as the "great pair that will be shattered". Something BAD is gonna happen to split them up. And not necessarily physically.

[Emmerask]

If you're disappointed because it compares unfavorably to the Firefly pilot, to be honest I would suggest that your biggest problem is your expectations, not the show you're watching. For one thing, the Firefly pilot is one of the five best pilots I've ever seen; saying that it doesn't measure up to that pilot is like being meh on a season-ender because it just isn't as good as "The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1".

I believe you are incorrect, well you are correct that firefly had an AWESOME pilot but I really did not expect shield to be on that level.

To me the most glaring issue of the pilot is that the main characters stayed almost completely bland.
We here the protagonist has zero people skills but we never really see it etc.

Take X-Files for example, we hear that Mulder is a nut job... and when we see him... well it certainly seems that way! But then we get to know him during the pilot and he actually is not and he is very likable.
An infinitely better pilot.
Supernatural - we actually get to know about the brothers.
The Newsroom - a very powerful first episode!!!
Band of Brothers, Lost, Suits (btw an astonishingly good series), 4400, Heroes, Arrow (loved the first few episodes), Space Above and Beyond, The West Wing, Battlestar Galactica, Twin Peaks and I am sure I forget a ton...

all of these had a much better pilot and imho one of the reasons is because we actually got to know the protagonists something Shield just did not do for me at all, I know the hooded hero and thats pretty much it.


So in the end I am not disappointed because it compares unfavorable to firefly but because it compares unfavorable to quite a lot of series-pilots of similar caliber.

Now I have hopes that it will get better over time, Buffy did not start with an amazing pilot either but got really good later - now the Whedon fanboys will really kill me :smallbiggrin:

[Nadevoc]

Skye hid an SD card in her bra, she's DEFINITLY gonna get some more characterization and stuff. She's hiding more then she lets on.

I like how he has a bunch of scanner drones named after the seven dwarves. It's silly. And...we didn't actually get any technobabble. If you count the things Fitz and Simmons are saying to each other about the gun, and the stuff when they scan the site, I wouldn't classify it as technobabble. The former because it's a joke, the latter because it actually progresses the plot. It says things that don't actually matter, but it makes sense enough for the plot to be advanced by it in an understandable way, unlike how bad Trek uses technobabble.

Neither of those times were when the technobabble seemed particularly babbly; it was when they were talking about getting the video from the camera.

And Skye grabbing the SD card really didn't convince me there was a lot more to her than the "I'm freeing information!" bit.

[LaZodiac]

I'm probably reading too much into things.

[Kitten Champion]

I believe you are incorrect, well you are correct that firefly had an AWESOME pilot but I really did not expect shield to be on that level.

To me the most glaring issue of the pilot is that the main characters stayed almost completely bland.
We here the protagonist has zero people skills but we never really see it etc.

Take X-Files for example, we hear that Mulder is a nut job... and when we see him... well it certainly seems that way! But then we get to know him during the pilot and he actually is not and he is very likable.
An infinitely better pilot.
Supernatural - we actually get to know about the brothers.
The Newsroom - a very powerful first episode!!!
Band of Brothers, Lost, Suits (btw an astonishingly good series), 4400, Heroes, Arrow (loved the first few episodes), Space Above and Beyond, The West Wing, Battlestar Galactica, Twin Peaks and I am sure I forget a ton...

all of these had a much better pilot and imho one of the reasons is because we actually got to know the protagonists something Shield just did not do for me at all, I know the hooded hero and thats pretty much it.

So in the end I am not disappointed because it compares unfavorable to firefly but because it compares unfavorable to quite a lot of series-pilots of similar caliber.

Now I have hopes that it will get better over time, Buffy did not start with an amazing pilot either but got really good later - now the Whedon fanboys will really kill me :smallbiggrin:

If you're going to compare Aaron Sorkin to the rest of television there are only two or three names (David Simon, Vince Gilligan, Matthew Weiner) even comparable and Whedon at his best isn't really among them in my opinion.

Most of the rest you mentioned were two-parters, television movies, or HBO shows with long broadcast times and no commercials. None of them had to re-establish a cinematic universe into what is a far different television medium, establish a cast of 6-7 characters, write a full story with a climax, and get in witty trailer-fuel dialogue -- all into 40-something minutes.

Granted, they could have done a two-parter, that would have been entirely reasonable.

[navar100]

Her first assignment was as a recruiter . . . at the mall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY_bhVSGKEg

Eventually, she was promoted to their space program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hqklWJxUTo

Also helps to be married to a genius who was a doctor as a kid.

[Cikomyr]

Also helps to be married to a genius who was a doctor as a kid.

....

THAT'S WHAT BARNEY IS DOING!!!

Everything else is just a cover!!! :smalleek:

Edit: You remember why Barney and Robin couldn't go to Lily and Marshall's Double-Couple night?


Barney: The US Navy discovered aliens at the bottom of the ocean and for reasons I can't explain, they selected Robin and I to lead the expedition
Lily: That sounds like stuff you say to women when you're trying to get rid of them


IT WAS TRUE!!!

[IronFist]

Coulson is a Life Model Decoy, calling it now.

[RoboChap]

Fitz is Scottish (or, at least his actor is and he's making no effort to hide that accent), and Simmons is British.

For the record, they're both British. Simmons is English, Fitz is Scottish, but both England and Scotland are part of Great Britain. (Apologies for being particularly picky about it, but it's an important distinction that I realised many people don't quite get from my time spent in America!) I am intrigued to hear that so many people struggled to understand what they said though, I guess being British I am well accustomed to both accents so understood both fully. Out of interest, which of them was harder to understand for people? As that seems to have been a common complaint on a number of sites I frequent

[pita]

Scottish, by quite a bit. I've managed to watch enough BBC so that neither was especially difficult for me, but Scottish is the H.R. Giger of accents.

[BWR]

Honestly, if people thought that was a difficult Scottish accent to understand, they have no idea what they're talking about. Have something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoBk8bxU1rs) coming at you, or a Doric (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOiHEfeaJQA&list=PLE992B0A51B931DF1)accent or something. Or something (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDeSjdr0kJs)from the highlands and islands (ignoring that the show is nearing 30 years old and inaccurate in parts).

[Cikomyr]

Coulson is a Life Model Decoy, calling it now.

I really, really hope we're gonna have more foreshadowing than Marvel Lore

[BWR]

I really, really hope we're gonna have more foreshadowing than Marvel Lore

You mean apart from "He must never know about Tahiti."?

[Karoht]

@Coulson
You guys watched Avengers right?
You guys remember hearing Coulson say that his captain america cards were in mint condition, except for the corners, right?
You guys noticed the blood on the captain america cards right?
You guys remember Maria Hill saying, rather perplexed, "Coulson kept those cards in his locker." Implying that he wasn't carrying them on his person at the time of death.
You guys remember Coulson saying "they need the push" right?
Where did the blood come from?

Paramedics show up to deal with Coulson after what happened with Loki.
Insert some SHIELD tech medical stuff.
Fury goes to Coulson's locker, smeared some blood on a few cards.
Coulson lived. Fury lied. Something every good spy is known for doing well.

I never bought Coulson's death. The minute Hill pointed out that he kept the cards in his locker, I knew something was up.


I look forward to watching this show.

[Kitten Champion]

@Coulson
You guys watched Avengers right?
You guys remember hearing Coulson say that his captain america cards were in mint condition, except for the corners, right?
You guys noticed the blood on the captain america cards right?
You guys remember Maria Hill saying, rather perplexed, "Coulson kept those cards in his locker." Implying that he wasn't carrying them on his person at the time of death.
You guys remember Coulson saying "they need the push" right?
Where did the blood come from?

Paramedics show up to deal with Coulson after what happened with Loki.
Insert some SHIELD tech medical stuff.
Fury goes to Coulson's locker, smeared some blood on a few cards.
Coulson lived. Fury lied. Something every good spy is known for doing well.

I never bought Coulson's death. The minute Hill pointed out that he kept the cards in his locker, I knew something was up.


I look forward to watching this show.

Well, yeah, Fury was being emotionally manipulative and using the circumstances to his advantage, it doesn't mean Coulson actually lived. The fact that Coulson is a walking, talking, breathing member of the cast doesn't technically mean he lived... as silly as that sounds. We don't really understand the level of unreality available to this setting, superheroes and flying cars aside.

[LaZodiac]

I wasn't even aware it was questionable that he WASN'T a life model decoy. The hint they gave to it was...honestly FAR too obvious. The doctor says Tahiti questioningly, and then Hill says "Yes, Tahiti." in one of those 'of course it's Tahiti, that's a good place to relax after being wounded, obviously' tones. The doctor then says "he must never know the truth" and Hill says "and he never will"

That is so obviously code for "We programmed him with Coulson's memories due to him being a life model decoy, and his mind decided that Tahiti is where we sent him to recover. He must never know the truth"

[huttj509]

@Coulson
You guys watched Avengers right?
You guys remember hearing Coulson say that his captain america cards were in mint condition, except for the corners, right?
You guys noticed the blood on the captain america cards right?
You guys remember Maria Hill saying, rather perplexed, "Coulson kept those cards in his locker." Implying that he wasn't carrying them on his person at the time of death.
You guys remember Coulson saying "they need the push" right?
Where did the blood come from?

Paramedics show up to deal with Coulson after what happened with Loki.
Insert some SHIELD tech medical stuff.
Fury goes to Coulson's locker, smeared some blood on a few cards.
Coulson lived. Fury lied. Something every good spy is known for doing well.

I never bought Coulson's death. The minute Hill pointed out that he kept the cards in his locker, I knew something was up.


I look forward to watching this show.

Alternate:

Coulson died.

Fury wanted a symbol to have it sink in for dramatic effect to get the push he needed.

He went and got the cards to use.

Fury faking the cards does not mean Coulson lived, died, or was on the verge of death unknown what would happen as he was rushed off to Avalon or something.

Any of those are possible, and Fury could still have easily used the cards as a symbol.

[amusementfilms]

It hooked me! I love Clark Gregg! I'll keep watching!

[Rakaydos]

I've expecting Life Model Decoys to be another monster of the week, and over the episide it will become be HEAVILLY implied to the crew that not only is Coulsin one, but that it would be a BAD IDEA to remind ANY Life model decoy it's a robot.

[HandofShadows]

Don't think Coulson is an LMD. He is out in the field where he can easily be injured and give the secret away. I think he really DID die and somehow Shield brought him back, at least part of the way.

[Rakaydos]

Don't think Coulson is an LMD. He is out in the field where he can easily be injured and give the secret away. I think he really DID die and somehow Shield brought him back, at least part of the way.

The doctors dont want to clear him for duty, but he's pulling rank, and they cant stop him without revealing what he really is.

[Fjolnir]

This (http://www.dorkly.com/article/54190/agents-of-shield-starring-all-your-marvel-favorites) somehow makes it so much better

[Legato Endless]

I believe you are incorrect, well you are correct that firefly had an AWESOME pilot but I really did not expect shield to be on that level.

Now I have hopes that it will get better over time, Buffy did not start with an amazing pilot either but got really good later - now the Whedon fanboys will really kill me :smallbiggrin:

Naw, you'd have plenty of company. Popular fandom opinion regards either Season 1 as arguably the weakest part of the show, the initiative/RILEY arc, or the second half of season 6. The Halloween episode and the first half of the season finale are good...but the rest is a long prologue for the greatness of season 2.

Angel struggled to figure out what it was about until the dimension hopping episode, and Doll houses first six entries are kind of a drag. Firfly is the only Whedon show that hits the ground running. Despite the expressed purpose of the pilot, I don't think we will have a really clear picture of shield until the myth arc gets moving beyond the foreshadowing, and the characters move beyond their (fairly bland) archetypes.

[snoopy13a]

Naw, you'd have plenty of company. Popular fandom opinion regards either Season 1 as arguably the weakest part of the show, the initiative/RILEY arc, or the second half of season 6. The Halloween episode and the first half of the season finale are good...but the rest is a long prologue for the greatness of season 2.

Season 4 was great. It began with Oz's exit from the show and Willow's new friendship with whom we speculated at the time was a lesbian demon. It also had the greatest minor character in Buffy history: Parker. Plus, it was the first season to really bring in Spike and Anya as pseudo-main characters.

It had episodes where Jonathan was a superhero, Buffy becomes drunken-Cave-Buffy because of a bitter townie bartender, the existence of the orgasm wall, the episode where everyone loses their voices (Hush), and finished with the Cheese episode. Ok, Adam was a little lame as the Big Bad, but the rest of the season was great.

Plus, I love the late-90s feel of the season (Season 4 aired in 1999-00). Buffy spending a day waiting by the phone for Parker to call just wouldn't happen in today's smartphone world. Overall, though, Season 4 was my favorite because I was an undergrad at the time and it really was the only season where the Scooby gang was actively doing the same things I was doing at the time (technically, I suppose Season 1 aired during my senior year of high school, but I didn't start watching Buffy until Season 3).

[Aotrs Commander]

So, aired on UK TV this evening...

Cracking start in my opinion. Phil is... Phil. He is worth the price of admission alone. Rest of the team were suitably entertaining.

Me and Mum both said this can go right onto our watch list. (Which is otherwise starting to look a bit bleak, as it's now down to Murdoch Mysteries, the tail-end of CSI:NY and CSI Vegas, so that's good.)

[Zindaras]

In general, I liked this show. It's pretty lighthearted, has some good jokes (I noticed the Scot humming the 7 dwarves song and was really happy to find out that he actually did name them after the 7 dwarves) and some generally interesting characters. The idea of giving Joss Whedon free rein to produce a superhero show also appeals to me. It wasn't fantastic, but I've seen a lot worse and laughed a lot less (even at comedies), so I'm going to continue watching.


Also, I have to confess I don't get why everyone is saying Skye is there to appeal to males when she's, at best, the fourth best-looking woman on the cast (I think she beat out the Centipede doctor). :smallwink:

Well, looks aren't everything, you know. Her attraction's supposed to lie more in her nerdiness than anything else.


Don't get me started on Revolution....

How do they not have electricity AND the ability to manufacture steam powered technology?!

Revolution is a series best watched with your science eye closed. That makes it much better.


For the record, they're both British. Simmons is English, Fitz is Scottish, but both England and Scotland are part of Great Britain. (Apologies for being particularly picky about it, but it's an important distinction that I realised many people don't quite get from my time spent in America!)

Maybe we can start a club. Everybody messes up Holland and the Netherlands as well (which is the same as calling the US Dakota or Carolina).


I am intrigued to hear that so many people struggled to understand what they said though, I guess being British I am well accustomed to both accents so understood both fully. Out of interest, which of them was harder to understand for people? As that seems to have been a common complaint on a number of sites I frequent

They're both equally difficult. I like their accents, don't get me wrong, but up the speed and it can get difficult, especially for a non-native speaker. It's more the speed and volume that gets me, though (both speak quickly and messily, often while other people are talking).

[Lorsa]

It was at least more enjoyable than some other shows I've been trying to watch lately. Everybody knows Whedon shows aren't the best right off the bat but the more you get to know the characters the better it gets.

Also, when you talk about Firefly pilot, do you mean the real one or the aired one? I think the fact that the pilot was remade to The Train Job just over a weekend is part of the reason why the show didn't do as great.

I have some hopes for the agents, there's plenty of unexplored character drama to be had.

[Aotrs Commander]

On Phil:

I am slightly surprised how many people are jumping to the conclusion he's some sort of robot/android/LMD or something. It's the Marvel Universe: death is like a revolving door or something. There are dozens of ways of bringing back the actual dead: it's entirely plausible in-universe SHIELD used one of those...

[Legato Endless]

Season 4 was great.

Oh I enjoyed season 4 well enough, but it gets some vitriol among certain contigents of the fandom. I think part of this has to do with the vast hatred for Riley as a love interest, and the oddity of the government actually doing anything in the Buffy universe.


I've expecting Life Model Decoys to be another monster of the week, and over the episide it will become be HEAVILLY implied to the crew that not only is Coulsin one, but that it would be a BAD IDEA to remind ANY Life model decoy it's a robot.

Once Coulson does learn he's a robot, it will in inevitably lead to his slip from sanity, setting the stage for his rise as the villain of Avengers 2. :smallamused:

I do wonder how much of a tie in they will have with the film, I can see them only vaguely alluding to Thor, but I'd be shocked if Avengers 2 doesn't have considerable lead up in the show, considering Marvel's marketing strategies.

Edit:

@aotrs commander

While there are dozens of possibilities, resurrection would be regarded as cheap to a number of people. Letting Coulson be a LMD leaves his death in Avengers intact. Also, while there are dozens of other explanations more palatable than resurrection, none of them would be as iconic to Shield as an LMD, and not all would offer the same potential for Coulson drama later on.

[Cikomyr]

You mean apart from "He must never know about Tahiti."?

That's foreshadowing that something is up about Coulson.

I mean, I hope there is foreshadowing about WHAT he is beyond Marvel Lore. I hope they don't just pull LMD out of their ass and say "Ta-daaa!! It was that all along!" and the only way you would have known is because you are a marvel nerd.

[LaZodiac]

That's foreshadowing that something is up about Coulson.

I mean, I hope there is foreshadowing about WHAT he is beyond Marvel Lore. I hope they don't just pull LMD out of their ass and say "Ta-daaa!! It was that all along!" and the only way you would have known is because you are a marvel nerd.

You don't need to know Marvel stuff to think "oh man he'd be a robot duplicate". It being called a Life Model Duplicate SPECIFICALLY, sure, that's Marvel nerd craft, but saying "oh that's a robot" is sensible.

[navar100]

....

THAT'S WHAT BARNEY IS DOING!!!

Everything else is just a cover!!! :smalleek:

Edit: You remember why Barney and Robin couldn't go to Lily and Marshall's Double-Couple night?




IT WAS TRUE!!!

What, you thought his "true story" tales were just fabrications? He's legen, wait for it, dary!

[RoboChap]

Maybe we can start a club. Everybody messes up Holland and the Netherlands as well (which is the same as calling the US Dakota or Carolina).

As it happens, people referring to the Netherlands as Holland is also a pet peeve of mine :P

[navar100]

As it happens, people referring to the Netherlands as Holland is also a pet peeve of mine :P

Blame the dikes. It's what Holland is known for.

[BRC]

My one problem with the LMD theory is that it dosn't make much narrative sense.

I mean if it's just an explanation for bringing him back, I can understand that on a meta level, but I don't get it on a narrative level.
Phil Coulson is a great guy. He's nice and very good at what he does, but he's not unique.
Were Fury and Hill just so sad about Coulson being dead that they made a Decoy Coulson because, even though they knew it was just a decoy, even though if any of The Avengers ever found out/thought that Coulson was still alive it would mean they would have even less reason to trust SHIELD.

[snoopy13a]

For the record, they're both British. Simmons is English, Fitz is Scottish, but both England and Scotland are part of Great Britain. (Apologies for being particularly picky about it, but it's an important distinction that I realised many people don't quite get from my time spent in America!) I am intrigued to hear that so many people struggled to understand what they said though, I guess being British I am well accustomed to both accents so understood both fully. Out of interest, which of them was harder to understand for people? As that seems to have been a common complaint on a number of sites I frequent

For me it is Simmons because the actress speaks quickly and her lines include a bit of jargon and slang. I think if she spoke slower then I'd understand her with little problem. I understand what Fitz is saying most of time. The problem for me is that the actors too often speak quickly and excitedly.


Honestly, if people thought that was a difficult Scottish accent to understand, they have no idea what they're talking about. Have something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoBk8bxU1rs) coming at you, or a Doric (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOiHEfeaJQA&list=PLE992B0A51B931DF1)accent or something. Or something (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDeSjdr0kJs)from the highlands and islands (ignoring that the show is nearing 30 years old and inaccurate in parts).

Yes, I know there are Scottish and English accents that are harder for Americans to decipher. But that doesn't mean we will necessary understand "easier" ones.



My one problem with the LMD theory is that it dosn't make much narrative sense.

I mean if it's just an explanation for bringing him back, I can understand that on a meta level, but I don't get it on a narrative level.
Phil Coulson is a great guy. He's nice and very good at what he does, but he's not unique.
Were Fury and Hill just so sad about Coulson being dead that they made a Decoy Coulson because, even though they knew it was just a decoy, even though if any of The Avengers ever found out/thought that Coulson was still alive it would mean they would have even less reason to trust SHIELD.

Good point. However, perhaps SHIELD thought that a Decoy Coulson would garner more respect from the other team members than a random robot or another agent with Coulson's abilities.

Isn't it sad that the biggest possible twist would be that Coulson is actually Coulson and SHIELD was able to heal him through advanced, but conventional, methods? We expect something weird because it is a Whedon show.

[Reverent-One]

Isn't it sad that the biggest possible twist would be that Coulson is actually Coulson and SHIELD was able to heal him through advanced, but conventional, methods? We expect something weird because it is a Whedon show.

Well, also because LMDs are one of SHIELDs' things. The only person with more robot duplicates is Dr. Doom.

[Friv]

Just saw the episode. Liked it a lot. A few thoughts:

Coulson is awesome, as expected. I very much liked Melinda May. The others were bland-ish, but they haven't lost me, and I'm happy to give them time to grow.

* When Mike throws the door of Skye's van at everyone, the two cops gets smacked, and Agent Ward dives to one side. Coulson freaking limbo-bends underneath it. Just bends backwards, with perfect reflexes, and avoids getting hit, then straightens and gives chase.

I consider this strong evidence of his now-superhuman nature.

* When Skye is first discussing her hacking skills, she says, and I quote: "I'm great with computers, I mean, weirdly great." It's an odd choice - people don't usually suggest that their talents are odd. Probably it's just a throwaway line, but maybe her skills are also more than natural? (Seriously, though, it's probably nothing).

* When Mike is dragging Skye around the train station, she definitely calls him Gunn.

[LaZodiac]

My one problem with the LMD theory is that it dosn't make much narrative sense.

I mean if it's just an explanation for bringing him back, I can understand that on a meta level, but I don't get it on a narrative level.
Phil Coulson is a great guy. He's nice and very good at what he does, but he's not unique.
Were Fury and Hill just so sad about Coulson being dead that they made a Decoy Coulson because, even though they knew it was just a decoy, even though if any of The Avengers ever found out/thought that Coulson was still alive it would mean they would have even less reason to trust SHIELD.

He's fought side by side with Thor. He's a symbol. EVERYONE has respect for him, despite their dislike of each other and the people they've dealt with on the job (from what we've been shown). He is just that charismatic.

Now turn him into a super fighting robot.



* When Mike throws the door of Skye's van at everyone, the two cops gets smacked, and Agent Ward dives to one side. Coulson freaking limbo-bends underneath it. Just bends backwards, with perfect reflexes, and avoids getting hit, then straightens and gives chase.

I consider this strong evidence of his now-superhuman nature.

* When Skye is first discussing her hacking skills, she says, and I quote: "I'm great with computers, I mean, weirdly great." It's an odd choice - people don't usually suggest that their talents are odd. Probably it's just a throwaway line, but maybe her skills are also more than natural? (Seriously, though, it's probably nothing).

* When Mike is dragging Skye around the train station, she definitely calls him Gunn.

I almost forgot that scene. Yha, if Coulson's not a robot, I'm not sure what he IS.

Skye being a tech based mutant would be interesting. Could be related to that SD card she hid in her bra (It's a good thing I'm not a Lost fan or I'd go insane, with how much I read into things).

What's the signifigence of calling him Gunn? Just curious.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Friv
When Mike throws the door of Skye's van at everyone, the two cops gets smacked, and Agent Ward dives to one side. Coulson freaking limbo-bends underneath it. Just bends backwards, with perfect reflexes, and avoids getting hit, then straightens and gives chase.

I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this. It was a half-second of screen time, but nicely done.

[TheEmerged]

So I found my Captain America DVD and... Stark's hovercar is red, but it looks like a different make of car.

Also, Phil being near superhumanly agile was established in one of the one-shots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf5ihUCbUAc).

[LaZodiac]

So I found my Captain America DVD and... Stark's hovercar is red, but it looks like a different make of car.

Also, Phil being near superhumanly agile was established in one of the one-shots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf5ihUCbUAc).

This doesn't preclude him being a robot in Agents. Sure, he's SUPER damn impressive, but that's because he's a Shield Agent. Not because he's a robot. But limbo dodging a door thrown by a Extremis powered individual, when you're not expecting such a door, that's super human.

[Philistine]

So I found my Captain America DVD and... Stark's hovercar is red, but it looks like a different make of car.

It would have to be. Lola is/started life as a classic Corvette (there's at least one clear shot of the badge when it's being loaded aboard the Mobile HQ, even if you don't recognize it), and the very first Corvette concept car debuted in 1953 - a full decade after the Stark expo in CAtFA.

[Eldan]

What's the signifigence of calling him Gunn? Just curious.

Gunn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gunn_%28Angel%29) was the actor's character on Angel.

[Zindaras]

As it happens, people referring to the Netherlands as Holland is also a pet peeve of mine :P

I dislike the whole Britain/England thing, too. I think we're going to get along just fine.


Blame the dikes. It's what Holland is known for.

Most of the dykes aren't even in Holland. All of the most impressive waterworks are in other provinces (Zeeland has the Deltaworks; Flevoland is an entire province that was literally wrenched from the sea's clutches. The only thing Holland gets to lay partial claim to is the Afsluitdijk which turned the South Sea into a lake, but that's between North Holland and Friesland, so it's not like it's uniquely Holland).


* When Mike throws the door of Skye's van at everyone, the two cops gets smacked, and Agent Ward dives to one side. Coulson freaking limbo-bends underneath it. Just bends backwards, with perfect reflexes, and avoids getting hit, then straightens and gives chase.

I consider this strong evidence of his now-superhuman nature.


I just figured he worked out, to be honest.

But, seriously, yes, that's probably a clue to him being more than just human. I just blindly assumed that he was human and that the thing the Shepard and Robin were talking about was that his recovery was not as smooth as he thought, and that he was a lot farther out than he had thought. Still, I don't think there's a real point to discussing it. I'm sure we'll get more hints as to what he specifically is soon enough. This scene was already a hint that he's more than just human.

(not that I think that anyone will actually stop discussing it)

[Sith_Happens]

* When Skye is first discussing her hacking skills, she says, and I quote: "I'm great with computers, I mean, weirdly great." It's an odd choice - people don't usually suggest that their talents are odd. Probably it's just a throwaway line, but maybe her skills are also more than natural? (Seriously, though, it's probably nothing).

Maybe it's acknowledgement by the scriptwriters that being "that good" really only gets you so far in the hacking world, and eventually you do in fact need More People with Better Computers?

[Hopeless]

And I still think he might be the original Human Torch except maybe depowered and the reason they're being secretive about it is that they didn't know he isn't human...

Makes it more interesting personally if he was left with amnesia from his original time in the 40's because no one knew he was an android and when he was brought back maybe only Fury knew.

Anyone know more about the Original Human Torch or more about the LMD's abilities?

[Palanan]

I'd never even heard of a Life Model Decoy until the Avengers movie last year--and even then, since Tony Stark was making a joke of it, I assumed it was a throwaway line, just another faux-serious Tonyism. Only recently has it trickled into my consciousness that LMDs are actually a general Marvel thing.

So, not being steeped in this bit of Marvel lore, the LMD option never occurred to me. But thinking about it a little, something completely different occurs to me:

Remember how Phil died, or maybe-died, on the helicarrier: impaled on Loki's Pick of Destiny Otherworldly Spear of Doom.

Impaled, mind you--and as I recall, this was the only time Loki used the spear that way. In every other case, he either used it to dominate someone or vaporize them with tesseract energy. (Or whatever it was; I loved the movie but didn't read up on it.)

So, I wonder if that didn't have some unexpected side effects, perhaps infusing Coulson with a lingering aura of tesseract energy (or whatever it was). Not enough to make him Captain Marvelous or anything, but just enough to give him a touch of the metahuman.

Granted, it doesn't seem like such a terrible secret that He Can Never Know; and it's probably no more correct than any other theory awkwardly flapping around the internet. Just something that occurred to me.

[datalaughing]

I wasn't even aware it was questionable that he WASN'T a life model decoy. The hint they gave to it was...honestly FAR too obvious. The doctor says Tahiti questioningly, and then Hill says "Yes, Tahiti." in one of those 'of course it's Tahiti, that's a good place to relax after being wounded, obviously' tones. The doctor then says "he must never know the truth" and Hill says "and he never will"

That is so obviously code for "We programmed him with Coulson's memories due to him being a life model decoy, and his mind decided that Tahiti is where we sent him to recover. He must never know the truth"

Your memory of that whole scene is a little bit off.

[LaZodiac]

Your memory of that whole scene is a little bit off.

Okay, then how did it actually happen? Because the above quote is how I read the scene when I saw it.

[Cikomyr]

You don't need to know Marvel stuff to think "oh man he'd be a robot duplicate". It being called a Life Model Duplicate SPECIFICALLY, sure, that's Marvel nerd craft, but saying "oh that's a robot" is sensible.

Except that robots haven't been established in the MCU. The most advanced piece of techs are the Iron Man series, the Tesserac guns, and certain upper-tech tools by SHIELD, like the heli-carrier, weird arrows, etc..

But robots ablec to hold a human consciousness and perfectly replicate behaviour? Gimme a break.

[LaZodiac]

Except that robots haven't been established in the MCU. The most advanced piece of techs are the Iron Man series, the Tesserac guns, and certain upper-tech tools by SHIELD, like the heli-carrier, weird arrows, etc..

But robots ablec to hold a human consciousness and perfectly replicate behaviour? Gimme a break.

...The Hulk, aliens with powers that essentially make them gods, super soldiers that can survive in the ice for 40 years, space elves from before the universe started, and the thing that breaks your suspension of disbelief is the robot. The robot that explicitly exists because Tony has made reference to it, towards a Shield agent, thus showing they'd both know what it is for them to get it.

[Aidan305]

My preferred theory is that there's nothing superhuman about Coulson. I feel that were it the case that there was something really special about him it would only serve to make the character less interesting than he already is. At the moment he's a fully rounded and highly enjoyable character. He doesn't need a dark secret just for the sake of having a dark secret.

[Cikomyr]

...The Hulk,

An accident that cannot be re-created


aliens with powers that essentially make them gods

Their technology hasn't been appropriated by SHIELD


super soldiers that can survive in the ice for 40 years

Accident that cannot be re-created


space elves from before the universe started

You probably mean the Skitarris? This might be the exception as we don't know how much reverse-engineering SHIELD has done to them


and the thing that breaks your suspension of disbelief is the robot. The robot that explicitly exists because Tony has made reference to it, towards a Shield agent, thus showing they'd both know what it is for them to get it.

Robots do not break my suspension of disbelief. Sudden arrival of robots from left field would. You make a rather silly argument here: it's like if I told you that you should accept humans having built an hyperspace capable ship in the 1st season of Stargate SG1, because we have aliens capable of travelling between worlds as well a stargate.

Just because the setting is otherworldly doesn't mean we have to accept whatever is thrown our way and not thing about it. Now; we have seen neat technological wonders by the humans so far in the MCU. But nothing to hint to the existence of a perfect replicant the likes necessary for a LMD. Your agument that "since Stark mentionned it, it must exist" is bullcrap.

Now, I'd be satisfied if the series actually start giving us some foreshadowing to the existence of technology to the like of the LMD. Like; if the team go on the trail of the production of android replicants, and they end up discovering it's another branch of SHIELD who rebuilt Coulson.

I just don't want them to eventually say: "Yhea, he's an android. We have been capable to building things like him for years and haven't bothered to tell anyone"/

[LaZodiac]

You probably mean the Skitarris? This might be the exception as we don't know how much reverse-engineering SHIELD has done to them

I just don't want them to eventually say: "Yhea, he's an android. We have been capable to building things like him for years and haven't bothered to tell anyone"/

I was talking about the guys from Thor: Dark world. Just saw the trailer for that two daysish ago. The villains are space elves who existed before the universe did.

This show is being written well, it's not going to just go "oh hey he's a robot", it's gonna be built up.

[Cikomyr]

I was talking about the guys from Thor: Dark world. Just saw the trailer for that two daysish ago. The villains are space elves who existed before the universe did.

This show is being written well, it's not going to just go "oh hey he's a robot", it's gonna be built up.

This is EXACTLY what I was saying. The entire point of my argument is that "I don't want the only reason we'd figure out Coulson is a LMD is because LMD are part of Marvel Lore". I want foreshadowing. I want hints. I want a buildup toward that answer.

I don't care if the answer is incompatible with generic Marvel Lore; MCU is its own thing, and should thrive on its own.

Hell, wouldn't I be satisfied if clues point to the LMD but it ends up being something different (but still compatible with the clues), just to be bait to the Marvel nerds :smallbiggrin:

[LaZodiac]

This is EXACTLY what I was saying. The entire point of my argument is that "I don't want the only reason we'd figure out Coulson is a LMD is because LMD are part of Marvel Lore". I want foreshadowing. I want hints. I want a buildup toward that answer.

I don't care if the answer is incompatible with generic Marvel Lore; MCU is its own thing, and should thrive on its own.

Hell, wouldn't I be satisfied if clues point to the LMD but it ends up being something different (but still compatible with the clues), just to be bait to the Marvel nerds :smallbiggrin:

Ahh, okay. Sorry if I misunderstood XP

[Talyn]

Except that robots haven't been established in the MCU. The most advanced piece of techs are the Iron Man series, the Tesserac guns, and certain upper-tech tools by SHIELD, like the heli-carrier, weird arrows, etc..

But robots ablec to hold a human consciousness and perfectly replicate behaviour? Gimme a break.

Uh, you mean like J.A.R.V.I.S., an Artificial Intelligence which is fully self-aware and self-motivated, and can run a whole army of Mr. Stark's Iron Man suits?

Also, we know that Dr. Zola is going to be one of the villains in Captain America: Winter Soldier - a guy who is, in the comics at least, a preserved brain in a robot body. If brains-in-jars are a viable thing in the MCU (and, judging by how old Zola was in Captain America, have been since at least the 70s, since any later and he'd have died of old age), then it's not too much of a stretch to assume that they were able to transfer Agent Coulson's memories and personality into a sophisticated robot duplicate.

Also, I apologize for mixing up "British" and "English." I am an American, but my wife is an anthropologist who does field work over there, so I really should have known better. I'll be more careful in the future!

[Cikomyr]

Uh, you mean like J.A.R.V.I.S., an Artificial Intelligence which is fully self-aware and self-motivated, and can run a whole army of Mr. Stark's Iron Man suits?

If you suddenly have a multitude ouf JARVIS-like AIs, JARVIS stops being special. I get your point, and it's a valid one TECHNICALLY. But it would cheapen JARVIS's status in the MCU on a narrative level; which is never a good thing.

Your story points shouldn't make other world elements less unique. The current Centipede technology risks doing this, and it bothers me. But I am curious to see how it will evolve, in a narrative perspective.

[Friv]

If you suddenly have a multitude ouf JARVIS-like AIs, JARVIS stops being special. I get your point, and it's a valid one TECHNICALLY. But it would cheapen JARVIS's status in the MCU on a narrative level; which is never a good thing.

The thing is, though, JARVIS should probably be cheapened a little on a narrative level, because no one is properly shocked that Tony Stark has a freaking sentient AI for a butler.

That's kind of a bigger deal than his Iron Man armor, if JARVIS is the only one in existence.

Instead, JARVIS is mostly played as a fun assistant, rather than a unique wonder that should be viewed with awe.

[Cikomyr]

The thing is, though, JARVIS should probably be cheapened a little on a narrative level, because no one is properly shocked that Tony Stark has a freaking sentient AI for a butler.

That's kind of a bigger deal than his Iron Man armor, if JARVIS is the only one in existence.

Instead, JARVIS is mostly played as a fun assistant, rather than a unique wonder that should be viewed with awe.

Agreed, 100%. However, we gotta admit the Iron Man series are not really meant to be considered with awe as the prime sentiment, but instead laughter. JARVIS is the straight man deadpan snarker that Stark/Downey Jr can bounce again.

Sadly, we never explored into much details JARVIS's character, but it doesn't mean he isn't exceptional in his own right. I'd have seen SHIELD's helicarrier have a support AI as well, if that would have been the case.

[Kitten Champion]

The Age of Ultron is coming, so clearly androids are going to be a thing. Then again they will probably want to hold off on the concept until that movie since they're going to make something of that level of complexity to be a remarkable innovation at that point.

I think Coulson's return is going to be the result of something more... unsettling. I'm thinking Commander Shepherd at the beginning of ME2 at the moment.

[snoopy13a]

The Age of Ultron is coming, so clearly androids are going to be a thing. Then again they will probably want to hold off on the concept until that movie since they're going to make something of that level of complexity to be a remarkable innovation at that point.

I think Coulson's return is going to be the result of something more... unsettling. I'm thinking Commander Shepherd at the beginning of ME2 at the moment.

Maybe Coulson is Ultron :smalltongue:

My guess would be on a clone implanted with Coulson's memory (like the Arnold film The 6th Day) but that would be too similar to Dollhouse.

[BRC]

Maybe Coulson is Ultron :smalltongue:

My guess would be on a clone implanted with Coulson's memory (like the Arnold film The 6th Day) but that would be too similar to Dollhouse.

Underneath S.H.I.E.L.D HQ there is a bunker full of a thousand frozen Phil Coulsons.
The Army Sleeps.

But it will awake.

[McStabbington]

He's fought side by side with Thor. He's a symbol. EVERYONE has respect for him, despite their dislike of each other and the people they've dealt with on the job (from what we've been shown). He is just that charismatic.

Now turn him into a super fighting robot.


. . .If you have respect for the man, how does it follow that the super fighting robot would command the same respect?

I'll be honest: I think the LMD thing is a complete head-fake, because it doesn't fit the universe we've seen. Even Jarvis, the most advanced AI we've seen in the show, is an order of magnitude less sophisticated than what you're asking us to believe about a Coulson LMD, for the very simple reason that Jarvis is not an attempt to map a human mind onto a purely mechanical device. That's like saying that well, since TNG had Data, it only makes sense that they could make a completely artificial Picard. That's a pretty close analogy, and should make it obvious that you're trying to compare two entirely different feats of artificial intelligence.

[LaZodiac]

. . .If you have respect for the man, how does it follow that the super fighting robot would command the same respect?

I'll be honest: I think the LMD thing is a complete head-fake, because it doesn't fit the universe we've seen. Even Jarvis, the most advanced AI we've seen in the show, is an order of magnitude less sophisticated than what you're asking us to believe about a Coulson LMD, for the very simple reason that Jarvis is not an attempt to map a human mind onto a purely mechanical device. That's like saying that well, since TNG had Data, it only makes sense that they could make a completely artificial Picard. That's a pretty close analogy, and should make it obvious that you're trying to compare two entirely different feats of artificial intelligence.

Because Fury is able to put aside personal feelings. We know for a fact he took Coulson's cards and stained them with blood to get the team ready. He's the type of guy who would look at this situation and make the objective decision to create a robot duplicate.

But okay, here's something more believable given your scope. He's like the movie version of Inspector Gadget, a man who was horribly wounded to the point of death, but then rebuilt. He is no longer human, but he is still "him". But then we have the whole "is it REALLY him, or are the bionics himself him enough to change him so that he is no longer himself" dilemma.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Finally just saw the ep! It started a bit "meh" for me, but it really, really kicked into full gear by the end. I was fully onboard by the climactic sequence. Snappy, put-together, and I really liked Coulson's standoff scene at the end.

Also: Lola fanclub. NOW.

[datalaughing]

Okay, then how did it actually happen? Because the above quote is how I read the scene when I saw it.

Watching the scene to make sure I get every word exactly right:
Coulson: You should go some time.
Maria Hill: Where?
Coulson: Tahiti. It's a magical place.
Maria Hill: Three days in I'd be begging for an assignment.
Coulson: Exactly.
*Coulson walks out.*
Doctor Shepherd Book: Tahiti (definitely not a question, actually when he says it it's almost like he doesn't like the taste of the word in his mouth, there's a grim, clipped quality to it). He really doesn't know, does he?
Maria Hill: He can never know.
*end scene*

[snoopy13a]

Watching the scene to make sure I get every word exactly right:
Coulson: You should go some time.
Maria Hill: Where?
Coulson: Tahiti. It's a magical place.
Maria Hill: Three days in I'd be begging for an assignment.
Coulson: Exactly.
*Coulson walks out.*
Doctor Shepherd Book: Tahiti (definitely not a question, actually when he says it it's almost like he doesn't like the taste of the word in his mouth, there's a grim, clipped quality to it). He really doesn't know, does he?
Maria Hill: He can never know.
*end scene*

If you're going to call one character Dr. Book, you should call the other character Agent Robin Sherbatsky.

I can't remember the "three days" in context. Did Coulson spend "three days" in "Tahiti"? If "so," that could be an allusion to a resurrection.

[BRC]

If you're going to call one character Dr. Book, you should call the other character Agent Robin Sherbatsky.

I can't remember the "three days" in context. Did Coulson spend "three days" in "Tahiti"? If "so," that could be an allusion to a resurrection.

The Three days was the amount of time Agent Robin Sparkles thought she would last in Tahiti before requesting an assignment.

[snoopy13a]

The Three days was the amount of time Agent Robin Sparkles thought she would last in Tahiti before requesting an assignment.

Ah, then it wasn't a hint. And Agent Robin Sparkles does sound better.

[BRC]

Ah, then it wasn't a hint. And Agent Robin Sparkles does sound better.

Robin, Agent of S.P.A.R.K.L.E.S

[LaZodiac]

Doctor Shepherd Book: Tahiti (definitely not a question, actually when he says it it's almost like he doesn't like the taste of the word in his mouth, there's a grim, clipped quality to it). He really doesn't know, does he?


First of all, thanks. Second of all, you explained the tone of the Doctor's line a lot better then I did XP

I still think this points towards him being a robot.

[Fjolnir]

What would being a robot have to do with getting put on a P.U.P. List?

[LaZodiac]

What's a PUP list?

[Fjolnir]

Physically Unable to Play... The doctor wants to bench him

[LaZodiac]

Ah, okay. I guess we'll wait and see what Coulson is. I'd put money on him be a robot.

[Silver Swift]

I'm hoping he isn't an LMD, the whole robot struggling with his identity thing is rarely a fun story arc to watch. Plus if that means he goes rogue during avengers 2 we might lose him for the series, which would be very bad.

Also, on the Holland vs. the Netherlands thing I like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLqs5ohhass_QZtSkX06DmWOaEaadwmw_D) youtube video explaining it all (except the part where he tries to pronounce the Dutch provinces in Dutch, that sends shivers down my spine for the bad accent).

There is also one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLqs5ohhass_QZtSkX06DmWOaEaadwmw_D) for the Britain/England/United Kingdom confusion. Though I like that one a bit less, to rushed and monotone.

[PhantomDennis]

I will probably take some flack for saying this but I for one LOVED The Cape.
I thought it was a pretty spot on deconstruction of the superhero genre within a superhero show. You need a REASON to be running around in a mask, tights and they gave the protagonist that, I think that a lot of people got turned off by the pilot and that killed the show because it found its feet and disappeared...:smallfrown:

Besides, the hacker/hero relationship on television is pretty much rooted in Eyes Only and Max from Dark Angel, so much so that both the cape AND this show pretty much rip the whole concept wholesale...

Oracle in the Batman comics preceded DARK ANGEL by over a decade. There was also Punisher and Microchip.

[Rakaydos]

I'm hoping he isn't an LMD, the whole robot struggling with his identity thing is rarely a fun story arc to watch. Plus if that means he goes rogue during avengers 2 we might lose him for the series, which would be very bad.

"Wait, I'm a robot? Since Tahiti? ....damn. So... does this mean I have cool robot powers? Hey Skye, show me how I can hack computers with my brain."

[theNater]

Uh, you mean like J.A.R.V.I.S., an Artificial Intelligence which is fully self-aware and self-motivated, and can run a whole army of Mr. Stark's Iron Man suits?
J.A.R.V.I.S. was presumably made by Stark, who does not share his tech with S.H.I.E.L.D. From a internal consistency standpoint, S.H.I.E.L.D. having such robots is far less likely than Stark, in a grief-stricken insomniac fugue state, going all six million dollar man on Coulson's body.

[Hopeless]

The Original Human Torch on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Torch_(android))

Noticed something interesting least of all the note that what I thought was the original human torch's costume on a dummy is actually the original human torch himself!

Apparently a transfusion of his blood has interesting effects notably the kind that could allow for Coulson's return from the dead for example.

Take a look for yourself.

[LaZodiac]

J.A.R.V.I.S. was presumably made by Stark, who does not share his tech with S.H.I.E.L.D. From a internal consistency standpoint, S.H.I.E.L.D. having such robots is far less likely than Stark, in a grief-stricken insomniac fugue state, going all six million dollar man on Coulson's body.

Implying Shield would wait for Stark to share :smallwink:

[Fjolnir]

Oracle in the Batman comics preceded DARK ANGEL by over a decade. There was also Punisher and Microchip.

I did specify On Television, in comics I agree that there were hero/hacker teams before Max and Eyes Only...

[Tyndmyr]

The first outfit we see Skye in did not do her favors in terms of "standing out as an original character," given how much her (http://images.wikia.com/marvelmovies/images/9/95/Skye_Agents_of_SHIELD.jpg) colorful-long-sleeved-shirt-with-dark-vest look resembled Kaylee's (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100426173315/firefly/images/8/8d/Kaylee_sit.jpg) colorful-long-sleeved-shirt-with-dull-overalls look, particularly when seated in the booth with Mike. My first reaction was "she looks like River and Kaylee had a daughter!" (There is probably fanfic where that precise sequence of events happens, but let us move on and not dwell on that fact.)

I could stand to hear a little more.


Don't get me started on Revolution....

How do they not have electricity AND the ability to manufacture steam powered technology?!

Because magic broke the electricity unless you have the mcguffin. Oh look, side quests!

Seriously, that whole show is like watching a terrible D&D campaign.


Also, I loved the bit where they were going over his assessment. I thought we were just gonna hit all the cliched bits, when suddenly "it looks like she drew a little poop". I agree that the trailers probably lowered my enjoyment of the show, but it still seemed pretty solid. Decent setup, tie-ins to the avengers world so it seems relevant, good humor. Def will watch again.

I admit to not really caring about fitzsimmons as of yet. I hope they flesh it/them out more. Right now, they're mostly just science in a can. As others have said, I expect further fleshing out of chars over the next few episodes, though. That's fine. As long as they don't stay cardboard cutouts, I'm good.


Neither of those times were when the technobabble seemed particularly babbly; it was when they were talking about getting the video from the camera.

And Skye grabbing the SD card really didn't convince me there was a lot more to her than the "I'm freeing information!" bit.

Nah, they tend to discuss actual science decently well. There are a few assumptions you need to make for their reactions to all make sense(for instance, that the camera data is fragmented, that the GPS-tied encryption has a certain degree of sophistication, etc), but it's actually pretty legit. My problem with them isn't the science, it's that so far, there isn't much to them other than the science.

I also had no trouble with their accents, but this is probably the fault of Dr Who, which has gotten me rather accustomed to britishness.

As for Coulson, who knows what happened to him. Maybe he's stuffed full of Chitauri tech. Maybe the staff indeed did something besides stabbity. Maybe someone stole Stark's tech(which happens basically constantly). Who knows, really? Im just gonna enjoy the ride.

[LaZodiac]

I for one can't wait to see Fitz fleshed out. He named his flying robot scanners after the seven dwarves. This is probably me reading to far into it but that just seems like a "this is an obvious reference screaming at you, but you can't hear it since you don't understand the language" situation.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I don't understand people complaining about Fitz/Simmons.

Am I the only American ear who was able to follow what they were saying perfectly well, technobabble included? I'm not even particularly adapted to British/Scottish/Whateverish accents.

Admittedly, I didn't follow the actual *science*, but I followed all the words and didn't have the time to write down the chemical compounds and/or look them up.

[LadyEowyn]

Also, on the Holland vs. the Netherlands thing I like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLqs5ohhass_QZtSkX06DmWOaEaadwmw_D) youtube video explaining it all (except the part where he tries to pronounce the Dutch provinces in Dutch, that sends shivers down my spine for the bad accent).

Thank you! I was wondering what the issue was. (Also, the political organization of the remnants of the Dutch Empire is weird. So, are the three islands that are under the Dutch crown but not part of The Netherlands roughly equivalent to the position of Canada and Australia in the Commonwealth, where we're independent nations but Liz is still the Queen?)

[Whiffet]

Plot twist: Coulson was a robot THE WHOLE TIME!! :smallwink: Not really. Coulson is actually an alien. And also a woman.

[Cikomyr]

Implying Shield would wait for Stark to share :smallwink:

Then why bother recruiting Stark when you can just appropriate the Iron Man technology for SHIELD use?

I don't think we can assumed SHIELD can just grab whatever Starktech it wants.

[LaZodiac]

Then why bother recruiting Stark when you can just appropriate the Iron Man technology for SHIELD use?

I don't think we can assumed SHIELD can just grab whatever Starktech it wants.

Well they can't get their hands on EVERYTHING, he'll notice. They'll just borrow, briefly, some minor things, and let Stark have his limelight.

I only bring it up because it feels like something Fury would do.

[DigoDragon]

I finally got to see the pilot today. It was pretty good, I liked it.
Not too fond of the interrogation scene with the truth serum that suddenly cuts to "okay the hacker is one of us now, lets go!" Seemed a bit jarring to me. The other stuff was pretty neat. I like their "Bus".

I'll keep watching it.

[Cikomyr]

Well they can't get their hands on EVERYTHING, he'll notice. They'll just borrow, briefly, some minor things, and let Stark have his limelight.

I only bring it up because it feels like something Fury would do.

I have no problem believing SHIELD is aware of such technologies. But assuming SHIELD can just get their hands on them and master them offscreen shouldn't be something that we take for granted.

I mean, I'd accept it if they show they have acquired parts of Starktechs, but it either costed them (maybe through favour reciprocal) or they have imperfectly recreated it.

Taking the assumption that they merely appropriated Starktech offscreen, and actually BUILT UPON IT, is.. a strech of disbelief, considering the rules of the MCU we've seen. I mean, SHIELD's high-end weaponry were Tessarac-based weaponry. The Iron Man suits proved to be at least on par, if not superior technology than whatever SHIELD has perfected.

[Rakaydos]

I have no problem believing SHIELD is aware of such technologies. But assuming SHIELD can just get their hands on them and master them offscreen shouldn't be something that we take for granted.

I mean, I'd accept it if they show they have acquired parts of Starktechs, but it either costed them (maybe through favour reciprocal) or they have imperfectly recreated it.

Taking the assumption that they merely appropriated Starktech offscreen, and actually BUILT UPON IT, is.. a strech of disbelief, considering the rules of the MCU we've seen. I mean, SHIELD's high-end weaponry were Tessarac-based weaponry. The Iron Man suits proved to be at least on par, if not superior technology than whatever SHIELD has perfected.

Given that Stark's joke in Avengers about using a life model decoy as an answering machine (my reference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNLTfOqzCMQ) at 0:34) and that this scene is BEFORE he goes to the helicarrrier to hijack all SHIELD's files, I would presume Stark Industries (and Tony Stark in particular) are going to be sited as "assisting in the development of the LMD program."

[Tyndmyr]

I'm actually gonna bet(five whole internets) on Coulson NOT being a life model decoy. Too easy. No, no, the truth has to be much more damning a secret than just being a robot. It's not as if Coulson is defined by his dislike of robots or identity problems or anything. No, he's defined by idealism.

Others in SHIELD, most overtly Fury...not so much. Would Fury do something morally questionable to save "his one good eye"? Keep in mind that this guy blew away a friendly plane with a rocket launcher to achieve his ends, and cheerfully manipulated the hell out of the Avengers. I'm gonna go with yes. Probably VERY questionable indeed.

[Lateral]

So... I liked it, but I feel like it should've been a lot better. It did that thing that I've seen in a bunch of shows where they have the actors talk both quickly and quietly, with the music really loud in the background, so you really can't ever understand what's going on. The Joss moments are there, but they're few and far between, unfortunately (although Ron Glass' cameo gave me a bit of a fangasm, and I wish I had recognized J. August Richards more quickly), and although Phil is still a badass, and the two scientists and the nerdy girl came through okay, I'm... kind of disappointed by the black-ops guy and the pilot. I mean, the latter could easily be interesting- she clearly has a storied past of some sort- but I'm not really getting any personality out of her yet, especially with how difficult they are to understand because of that thing I said before. The black-ops guy, well... that's such a stock character archetype, and I can't help but feel that he's just Clint Barton-lite. I mean, I trust Joss' ability to write compelling characters, but... c'mon. I've seen this kind of character a hundred times.

Also, did anyone else rage when they played over the "GRR ARGH" in the Mutant Enemy logo?

[Hawriel]

I enjoyed the Iron Man movies, and I think Tony Stark is a fun character. However when I look at the world Marvel created I call bull**** on this character.

He created armor that is far advanced of what the U.S. military has. The fact that Army, Marine Corp, Navy Seals, and Air force PJs do not have this equipment is a crime.

If Stark really tried to refuse sharing that tech for use in the military, the U.S. government would eminent domain it away from him in a heart beat.

Part of that campaign to get the technology could very likely include a picture of every service men killed in action sense he created the MK2.

Oh and FBI, and large police departments.

This is also why I really do not like Read Richards. I and why I liked Watchmen. Because Ozymandias actually used his engineering skills to make the world better.

[paddyfool]

Random unlikely speculation on Agent Coulson:

What if he's an Einherjar? I mean, he died as an ally of Thor in a mano-e-mano battle with Loki. You don't get much worthier of Valhalla than that, and it's possible that his idea of an afterlife of boozing and beautiful women would look quite a lot like Tahiti.

[HamHam]

If Stark really tried to refuse sharing that tech for use in the military, the U.S. government would eminent domain it away from him in a heart beat.

Rofl. You think our corporate overlords would let someone set a precedent like that? Please.

[LaZodiac]

Random unlikely speculation on Agent Coulson:

What if he's an Einherjar? I mean, he died as an ally of Thor in a mano-e-mano battle with Loki. You don't get much worthier of Valhalla than that, and it's possible that his idea of an afterlife of boozing and beautiful women would look quite a lot like Tahiti.

That's...

...okay, look, if it wasn't for the fact that THOR WOULD KNOW, thus making the entire "get the Avengers something to Avenge" plan fail, I'd tell you that I'm now 50/50 split on wheter he's a robot or a manly warrior ghost.

As it stands, I still think he's a robot, but your idea is hella rad.

[paddyfool]

That's...

...okay, look, if it wasn't for the fact that THOR WOULD KNOW, thus making the entire "get the Avengers something to Avenge" plan fail, I'd tell you that I'm now 50/50 split on wheter he's a robot or a manly warrior ghost.

As it stands, I still think he's a robot, but your idea is hella rad.

Thank you :)

Although... it's not necessarily the case that Thor would know. Death has never been part of his portfolio; Hel and Odin might well have been the only ones in the know at the time.

[theNater]

If Stark really tried to refuse sharing that tech for use in the military, the U.S. government would eminent domain it away from him in a heart beat.
They tried; that's what the hearing at the start of Iron Man 2 was about. Tony rejected the idea in no uncertain terms, leaving the government with no attractive options.

A political campaign has no influence over Tony, because he doesn't hold public office. They can't force him to hand it over or forcibly arrest him, because he can bring more force to bear than they can(plus doing so would be a public relations nightmare, which matters for them). They could render him unable to do business in the United States, but he can just take his business elsewhere.

Their best option right now is to leave him alone, and pick up whatever scraps of tech they can get. It's kind of humiliating, but it's better than leaving those scraps for some other country to get.

[Silver Swift]

Given that Stark's joke in Avengers about using a life model decoy as an answering machine (my reference at 0:34) and that this scene is BEFORE he goes to the helicarrrier to hijack all SHIELD's files, I would presume Stark Industries (and Tony Stark in particular) are going to be sited as "assisting in the development of the LMD program."

More importantly, this confirms that LMD's are a thing in the MCU, which makes it more likely that Coulson is one.


Thank you! I was wondering what the issue was. (Also, the political organization of the remnants of the Dutch Empire is weird. So, are the three islands that are under the Dutch crown but not part of The Netherlands roughly equivalent to the position of Canada and Australia in the Commonwealth, where we're independent nations but Liz is still the Queen?)

Basically, though I think Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten have maintained a stronger connection to the Netherlands than Canada and Australia have to England, due to being a lot smaller.

For instance, we had a fencer from Curacao at our club (in the Netherlands) that wanted to compete for Curacao on some international tournament, he was allowed to do that even though he is part of the Dutch national fencing association (instead of the separate Curacaon one).

[Hawriel]

They tried; that's what the hearing at the start of Iron Man 2 was about. Tony rejected the idea in no uncertain terms, leaving the government with no attractive options.

A political campaign has no influence over Tony, because he doesn't hold public office. They can't force him to hand it over or forcibly arrest him, because he can bring more force to bear than they can(plus doing so would be a public relations nightmare, which matters for them). They could render him unable to do business in the United States, but he can just take his business elsewhere.

Their best option right now is to leave him alone, and pick up whatever scraps of tech they can get. It's kind of humiliating, but it's better than leaving those scraps for some other country to get.

No the writers used comic book hand waving for that to happen. The U.S. government is a sleeping giant. That kind of defiance would have Stark put in prison. Tony Stark is a domestic threat to the U.S. If Stark reacted with violence it would have proved the Governments case for them.

Let me ask you a question. What is more damaging to PR, using eminent domain with due process that ends up needing to be enforced by force, or revealing Stark holding back technology that would have saved American soldier/police/fire/EMT and possibly others lives?

[LaZodiac]

One single sentence.

"The lives saved by this technology would be outweighed by the lives ended if it became commonplace."

[Eldan]

Random unlikely speculation on Agent Coulson:

What if he's an Einherjar? I mean, he died as an ally of Thor in a mano-e-mano battle with Loki. You don't get much worthier of Valhalla than that, and it's possible that his idea of an afterlife of boozing and beautiful women would look quite a lot like Tahiti.

Marvel has Einherjar? Are they actual ghosts or can Odin resurrect the dead?

I mean, I'm just wondering. Since, so far, the movies seem to explain away pretty much all instances of magic as advanced technology of some kind.

[Hopeless]

Thank you :)

Although... it's not necessarily the case that Thor would know. Death has never been part of his portfolio; Hel and Odin might well have been the only ones in the know at the time.

You know I actually like this idea plus Given the impending Thor sequel, Odin might have sent Coulson back precisely because he knew he could be trusted to do the right thing rather than how Agent Wade and other agents would have looked at it.

Well that explains why he used the truth drug on Wade probably figured he needed to lighten up bet Coulson almost laughed when he heard Wade fell asleep...:smallbiggrin:

[theNater]

No the writers used comic book hand waving for that to happen. The U.S. government is a sleeping giant. That kind of defiance would have Stark put in prison.
It's worth noting that Stark in prison is not a win for the government. They still don't have the suits, and now Stark isn't inventing anything else, so the government is actually down from the status quo.

Tony Stark is a domestic threat to the U.S. If Stark reacted with violence it would have proved the Governments case for them.
Whether the government's case is made or not is irrelevant if they can't physically transfer Stark to a jail cell in the first place, and if he's got the suit, they can't.

Let me ask you a question. What is more damaging to PR, using eminent domain with due process that ends up needing to be enforced by force, or revealing Stark holding back technology that would have saved American soldier/police/fire/EMT and possibly others lives?
It is irrelevant how much PR damage can be brought against Stark, because Stark cannot lose by PR damage.

[IronFist]

On Phil:

I am slightly surprised how many people are jumping to the conclusion he's some sort of robot/android/LMD or something. It's the Marvel Universe: death is like a revolving door or something. There are dozens of ways of bringing back the actual dead: it's entirely plausible in-universe SHIELD used one of those...

What about Maria Hill's line? "He can never know..."

[Hopeless]

What about Maria Hill's line? "He can never know..."

Maybe she and the good doctor/shepherd have no idea what happened and are treating Coulson as carefully as possible to avoid alerting him that something strange happened after he "died".

Just a thought what if he escaped Valhalla and at some point we discover Valkyries have come looking for him?:smallwink:

[theNater]

What about Maria Hill's line? "He can never know..."
Obviously, Fury entered into a bargain with Mephisto, exchanging their marriage for Coulson's life. We've been watching the new history all along, and we've just caught up to when the bargain happened.

[Eldan]

Fury married Mephisto?

What a Twist!

[Hopeless]

Fury married Mephisto?

What a Twist!

Mephisto was married to Hill...? that explains so much!

[IronFist]

Mephisto was married to Hill...? that explains so much!

But it's magic, you don't have to explain! :smallwink:

[Cikomyr]

I enjoyed the Iron Man movies, and I think Tony Stark is a fun character. However when I look at the world Marvel created I call bull**** on this character.

He created armor that is far advanced of what the U.S. military has. The fact that Army, Marine Corp, Navy Seals, and Air force PJs do not have this equipment is a crime.

If Stark really tried to refuse sharing that tech for use in the military, the U.S. government would eminent domain it away from him in a heart beat.

Part of that campaign to get the technology could very likely include a picture of every service men killed in action sense he created the MK2.

Oh and FBI, and large police departments.

This is also why I really do not like Read Richards. I and why I liked Watchmen. Because Ozymandias actually used his engineering skills to make the world better.


They tried; that's what the hearing at the start of Iron Man 2 was about. Tony rejected the idea in no uncertain terms, leaving the government with no attractive options.

A political campaign has no influence over Tony, because he doesn't hold public office. They can't force him to hand it over or forcibly arrest him, because he can bring more force to bear than they can(plus doing so would be a public relations nightmare, which matters for them). They could render him unable to do business in the United States, but he can just take his business elsewhere.

Their best option right now is to leave him alone, and pick up whatever scraps of tech they can get. It's kind of humiliating, but it's better than leaving those scraps for some other country to get.

Except these arguments don't stand for one simple reason: the US Government HAS appropriated a version of the Iron Man. And used it quite publicly. Remember War Machine?

They played the man; waited until Stark made an ass of himself and got drunk and had an agent go in to seize the tech. They then tried to reverse-engineer it with HAMMERtech, but it didn't turned out well. So the extent of War Machine's characteristic that isn't Starktech is.. the paintjob :smallbiggrin:

[DigoDragon]

No, no, the truth has to be much more damning a secret than just being a robot.

He's Coulson pulled from a parallel dimension?
Or is that too much like Fringe? :smalltongue:

[Thrudd]

An LMD may seem like a lame get-out-of-death-free card, but they are an iconic part of SHIELD, Fury uses them constantly. Coulson would be the perfect way to introduce their existence. This could also be an important part of setting the stage for "Age of Ultron", where sentient artificial intelligence and where it can go wrong will be a primary element of the story.
Another widely used way to resurrect people is bringing them in from a parallel universe. That could also be a secret they don't want Coulson to know...that they have altered his memories because he is actually a parallel universe version of Coulson whom they retrieved using some "magic" (as might be possible with Wanda). I think LMD is much more likely as it is so iconic to SHIELD, but it'll be fun to watch and find out.

With Scarlet Witch being in the next Avengers movie and Doctor Strange slated for his own movie, we know they will be exploring the magical side of the Marvel Universe (moreso than we've already seen with Asgard). I think we could see some episodes that hint at this, as well. If Coulson isn't an LMD I would presume magic has something to do with his resurrection.

Parallel universes is a way the movies could continue on with their characters into the future, too. When the actors get too old or their contracts run out, you can "reboot" their character with a new actor while still staying within continuity. The same way the comics do, just get a slightly different version of Tony Stark from another timeline. We don't need to do his origin story all over again, but he can be a younger version who has a slightly different personality and mannerisms and that would totally make sense.

[shadow_archmagi]

That's...

...okay, look, if it wasn't for the fact that THOR WOULD KNOW, thus making the entire "get the Avengers something to Avenge" plan fail, I'd tell you that I'm now 50/50 split on wheter he's a robot or a manly warrior ghost.

As it stands, I still think he's a robot, but your idea is hella rad.

It's worth noting that as far as I know, Thor isn't actually involved with the whole selection process (If I remember correctly, Valkyries operate fairly autonomously). He might find out when he got home, if somebody mentioned it to him.

That said, I don't think the Marvel universe has the same afterlife system as Norse mythology, since Thor is just a dude from another world rather than an actual ruler of the cosmos.

[Cheesegear]

J. August Richards is not Luke Cage. I am sad.

[Goosefeather]

I enjoyed the Iron Man movies, and I think Tony Stark is a fun character. However when I look at the world Marvel created I call bull**** on this character.

He created armor that is far advanced of what the U.S. military has. The fact that Army, Marine Corp, Navy Seals, and Air force PJs do not have this equipment is a crime.

If Stark really tried to refuse sharing that tech for use in the military, the U.S. government would eminent domain it away from him in a heart beat.

Part of that campaign to get the technology could very likely include a picture of every service men killed in action sense he created the MK2.

Oh and FBI, and large police departments.

This is also why I really do not like Read Richards. I and why I liked Watchmen. Because Ozymandias actually used his engineering skills to make the world better.

On an ideological level, perhaps Tony doesn't see "giving the US military his tech" as synonymous with "making the world better". And that's all I'll say about that, lest it descend into politics.

[paddyfool]

It's worth noting that as far as I know, Thor isn't actually involved with the whole selection process (If I remember correctly, Valkyries operate fairly autonomously). He might find out when he got home, if somebody mentioned it to him.

That said, I don't think the Marvel universe has the same afterlife system as Norse mythology, since Thor is just a dude from another world rather than an actual ruler of the cosmos.

It is the weak point of the whole theory, and the reason I posited it as rather unlikely. The Norse afterlife does exist, to an extent, in Marvel; Thor at least has died and ended up in Niflheim on at least one occasion. But I don't recall ever coming across Einherjar as such, other than Heimdall.


Sleeping with Hel, goddess of the dead and Loki's daughter.

[Cikomyr]

An LMD may seem like a lame get-out-of-death-free card, but they are an iconic part of SHIELD, Fury uses them constantly.

In the comic book


Coulson would be the perfect way to introduce their existence. This could also be an important part of setting the stage for "Age of Ultron", where sentient artificial intelligence and where it can go wrong will be a primary element of the story.

Again, that's a comic book plot point, which completely diverge from the more grounded feel the MCU tried to establish.


Another widely used way to resurrect people is bringing them in from a parallel universe.

Again, comic book plot. There hasn't been a clue regarding parallel universes yet in the MCU, and it would be the asspull of asspulls to just introduce it as is.


That could also be a secret they don't want Coulson to know...that they have altered his memories because he is actually a parallel universe version of Coulson whom they retrieved using some "magic" (as might be possible with Wanda). I think LMD is much more likely as it is so iconic to SHIELD, but it'll be fun to watch and find out.

It's way too convoluted for no good reason.

[Reverent-One]

Again, that's a comic book plot point, which completely diverge from the more grounded feel the MCU tried to establish.


No, he's referring to the Avengers 2, subtitled "Age of Ultron". So AI is definitely going to be a thing in the MCU.

[Hopeless]

I for one much prefer the Valhalla theory!:smallbiggrin:

[Cikomyr]

No, he's referring to the Avengers 2, subtitled "Age of Ultron". So AI is definitely going to be a thing in the MCU.

Ah, fair enough. You think they will build up the movie's plot point with the series?

[Thrudd]

No, he's referring to the Avengers 2, subtitled "Age of Ultron". So AI is definitely going to be a thing in the MCU.

Exactly. There is no way they can do Ultron without introducing sentient androids and AI, it is an inevitability in the MCU as this has been confirmed for Avengers 2. As was pointed out previously, Jarvis is pretty much this already. It is also confirmed that Scarlet Witch is in Avengers 2, and Doctor Strange is getting a movie at some point. So there will definately be magic, probably demons/extra dimensional entities, and most of the other things that we've seen in the comics. No reason to think parallel dimensions and timelines won't come up at some point. Thanos is already here, and that line about "courting Death" and his big grin implies we are going to eventually see some really out-there cosmic immortals/celestials/gods stuff (which we already have some of with Asgard). I am really excited for Guardians of the Galaxy.

How much the TV show will handle of these things is another matter. The scale of SHIELD agents' abilities means they can't deal with too much. I am guessing there will be lots of super-tech, and maybe some hints of more magical/cosmic stuff which they might encounter but not really have to deal with. I am also predicting that Hydra will be revealed as their nemesis organization (at least I hope so). I'm hoping we'll get cameos from some minor comic heroes, too.

[Thrudd]

Ah, fair enough. You think they will build up the movie's plot point with the series?

As heavily as Joss Whedon is involved with the whole MCU, the fact he is doing the TV show and the Avengers movie, I would not be surprised.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr, on Revolution
Seriously, that whole show is like watching a terrible D&D campaign.

You found the perfect metaphor. I watched the first three or four episodes and quit in disgust. Has it improved even remotely since then?


Originally Posted by Thanatos 50-51
Am I the only American ear who was able to follow what they were saying perfectly well, technobabble included?

You may be. I could barely follow them.



As for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. itself...well, it's T-minus 26 hours until the next episode, at least where I am. Despite consciously not having very high expectations, I still can't remember the last time I've looked forward to a Tuesday night so much.

:smallbiggrin:

[Talyn]

I'm incredibly psyched for the next episode!

Regarding the U.S. Military and the Stark suits - I certainly agree that in a knock-down, drag-out brawl between the U.S. military and Tony Stark, the military is going to win, even ignoring the end of Iron Man 3 where Tony had the arc reactor taken out of his chest and blew up 98% of his arsenal.

But that would set the precedent of them declaring war on a U.S. citizen in order to seize his property. I can't see President Ellis (and even less so President Obama, who appears to have been turned into a one-termer in the MCU - I guess aliens attacking New York makes people vote Republican) being okay with that, either from a moral standpoint or from a political one. Essentially nationalizing a major public figure by force is going to get exactly nobody re-elected.

So, the military and Tony Stark fight, and the military "wins" - what does that mean? Stark is going to get killed - any artillery heavy enough to take out his suit is going to absolutely pulp the man inside - which means no new suits ever. They can't reverse-engineer it - they tried in IM2 and it didn't work. And if they take apart the War Machine suit, they might not be able to put it back together again.

And don't tell me you could seize Stark Tower and the Malibu Workshops by force and just use the pre-existing suit blueprints - JARVIS would resist to the point of self-destructing before letting the people who killed Stark get a hold of his life's work.

Even if, somehow, DARPA is able to produce a viable, USMIL-stamped Iron Man suit, these things are so colossally expensive you'd never use it - they cost as much as a jet fighter EACH. You are not going to kit these out to combat infantrymen.

No, what they are doing is what they should be doing - keep their distance, keep Colonel Rhodes at Tony Stark's side, and in the meantime try to work on more cost-effective soldier enhancement programs. You know, like the Hulk.

[paddyfool]

As a Brit, I found Fitz & Simmons perfectly understandable, just annoying, in much the same way as I found Skye annoying. Token geekish stereotype traits shown with very little individuality drawn on yet. But I'll give Whedon a chance to go somewhere that's actually fun and interesting with this.

[Tyrant]

Even if, somehow, DARPA is able to produce a viable, USMIL-stamped Iron Man suit, these things are so colossally expensive you'd never use it - they cost as much as a jet fighter EACH. You are not going to kit these out to combat infantrymen.
Infantrymen men, no. Expensive? For Tony Stark maybe. Assuming his wealth isn't an amount irrationally beyond real world billionaires, it is less than $100 billion and I imagine most of that is tied up in company stock. The DoD has a yearly budget several times that. Those planes the price is being compared to? They managed to buy a whole lot of them and give them to pilots to use so I am not sure why they wouldn't do the same with a suit that has obvious extreme advantages. Sure they would need to train the operators, but Stark didn't exactly have a lot of training himself.

I'm not saying they would or wouldn't try to take it and replicate it, I am saying if they did cost would not be an issue. Though I do believe they would take it and there would be no "try" to it. I don't believe the government is too keen on a regular joe having a potential weapon of mass destruction.

[jedipotter]

I'm actually gonna bet(five whole internets) on Coulson NOT being a life model decoy. Too easy.

It is a perfect fit though. I think it would work out great. After all, we know LMD's exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Sure he could be something like a clone, but why bother when you have LMD's in S.H.I.E.L.D. It would be like giving Thor a magic sword and ignoring the hammer. It's like having a flying car, it is a SHIELD icon just like the Helecarrier.

The Pilot:
Well, I try to take it light as it is the first one. And they have to introduce all the characters, AND have a silly action adventure plot.

1. First off, this should have been a two or three part episode.

2.And it really could have had less ''poor black man rage'' and more ''agents of shield''.

3.Why have three science/tech geeks as main characters? Sure you need one character to make up crap, but why three?

4.And why the hacker against the world girl? I like the character idea, but hate the super hacker bit. Did not hackers fade away after the 90's? I'm really not gonna like it if she ''hacks the world'' like every five seconds....that just gets so boring. It will maybe be worse if she uses it for dumb comic laughs too.

5.The whole show was just sort of bland. It could have used some spice.

[navar100]

I think the new X-Men movie will involve Sentinels. I wonder if they'll have an after credits short that somehow links Sentinel technology or premise ideology to Ultron, to link the franchises.

[LaZodiac]

I think the new X-Men movie will involve Sentinels. I wonder if they'll have an after credits short that somehow links Sentinel technology or premise ideology to Ultron, to link the franchises.

The X Men movies aren't related to the Avengers movie verse. Infact, they both will have Scarlet Witch in them, played by different actresses. Just to send the point home.

[Ravian]

The X Men movies aren't related to the Avengers movie verse. Infact, they both will have Scarlet Witch in them, played by different actresses. Just to send the point home.

From what I've also heard though X men is actually going to tie in some of the fantastic four movies in by including Franklin Richards, though this is just from hearsay for me.

Also truth be told Sentinels don't really seem to qualify as a fully sentient AI in my opinion at least the more classic ones the movie seems to be doing rather than those newer cyborg ones. They're told to kill mutants, they have sensors to detect mutants and programming to react to their powers and tactics. Seem like Ivan Vanko's drones from Iron Man II without an operator needing to control them so much and a mutant-killing focus to their armaments. That's way behind Jarvis, who can hold intelligent conversations, Ultron who can concoct long-term plans, or a Life Model Decoy that legitimately believes it's the human it impersonates (if that is indeed what Coulson is).

Sentinels just don't seem like they really represent the danger of AI, they represent the ultimate future when allow our xenophobia consume us. (Although I'm sure that some Sentinel Storylines have more of a terminator vibe to them. I'm just going off of what I know.)

Anyway looking forward to the next episode. It was a little disappointing that the Hooded Hero wasn't Luke Cage but I've still got high hopes going in, if anything Coulson would make anything worth watching.

[Thrudd]

I think the new X-Men movie will involve Sentinels. I wonder if they'll have an after credits short that somehow links Sentinel technology or premise ideology to Ultron, to link the franchises.

Fox still owns X-Men and Fantastic Four, so no crossovers or linking those with Avengers. I have also heard that Fox wants to reboot Fantastic Four, and cross them over with XMen for their own version of the MCU. Marvel isn't even allowed to use the word "mutant" in their movies. So the Avengers version of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver will not be identified as "mutants" or as being the children of Magneto (not that they knew that in the beginning, anyway). Maybe someday, Fox will lose its rights and the MCU can become more whole, or the studios will come to some sort of cooperative agreement (yeah right). It will be a bit weird having two versions of Wanda and Pietro in two different movies...but that's easy enough with parallel time-lines. If and when Xmen and Avengers do get to crossover, it could involve some timeline hopping or reality manipulating (ala Scarlet Witch, House of M, etc).

[IronFist]

The X Men movies aren't related to the Avengers movie verse. Infact, they both will have Scarlet Witch in them, played by different actresses. Just to send the point home.

Actually, it's Quicksilver.

[Hopeless]

That kid mentioned in the pilot who rescued his family was that supposed to be Quicksilver?

[Dienekes]

Actually, it's Quicksilver.

Huh that's weird. I do wonder how they'll introduce him or explain him away since his backstory is pretty tied in with the X-Men weirdness.

Also, gotta admit. I really don't like Quicksilver, so... hurray for me.

[IronFist]

Huh that's weird. I do wonder how they'll introduce him or explain him away since his backstory is pretty tied in with the X-Men weirdness.

Also, gotta admit. I really don't like Quicksilver, so... hurray for me.

"Mutant who runs real fas and had anger issues due to experiencing the world in slow motion."
Done. Magneto is just bagage.

[LaZodiac]

"Mutant who runs real fas and had anger issues due to experiencing the world in slow motion."
Done. Magneto is just bagage.

So he's Flash if Flash ever broke. That's kinda cool.

[Dienekes]

"Mutant who runs real fas and had anger issues due to experiencing the world in slow motion."
Done. Magneto is just bagage.

Huh I guess. I thought an integral part of his character arc was proving himself as a good guy after working for his father and being continuously tempted to return to him and seek his approval. Plus the mutant superiority stuff he spouts from time to time.

I mean you could cut all that out and just have an angry speedster named Quicksilver.

Actually, I probably would like that version better anyway, so what am I complaining about?

[Philistine]

I don't understand people complaining about Fitz/Simmons.

Am I the only American ear who was able to follow what they were saying perfectly well, technobabble included? I'm not even particularly adapted to British/Scottish/Whateverish accents.

Yeah, it really wasn't as bad as some people are pretending. I kept up with both Fitz and Simmons just fine, and my hearing is notably sketchy in the middle (i.e. human vocal) range.

***
Re: DOD vs Tony Stark
In-universe, the US DOD really should have all the tech required to replicate the Iron Man suit by very shortly after the end of IM2, courtesy of seizing Hammer Industries' assets. A suitable power source is the critical enabling technology, and Vanko cranked out at least 33 Arc Reactors in Hammer's basement. Apart from that, they should have Repulsor tech via the Jericho system from the first movie; and Vanko (again) was able to find some suitable substitute for Jarvis which allowed him to control 32 drones, War Machine (counter to the control inputs of its physical pilot!), and his own suit.

[Sith_Happens]

A suitable power source is the critical enabling technology, and Vanko cranked out at least 33 Arc Reactors in Hammer's basement.

Yeah, I was always under the impression that once you have a small-sized arc reactor the rest of the suit is mostly just a matter of having enough money to throw at your engineers (and patent lawyers, if you want to include any repulsors). Which, combined with the fact that Tony is actually working on commercializing his arc reactor tech as of some time before Avengers, means that things could get really interesting really fast.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Actually, it's Quicksilver.

I've heard it's both.

[Yana]

In the immortal words of Wash...

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayel!

I mean really, who didn't see that one coming?

[Talyn]

Fun episode, didn't see the twist at the end...

...you know, the one where Skye is apparently working with someone else on Rising Tide? I probably SHOULD have seen it coming, but I didn't.

Ok, so, having nations resent SHIELD meddling (like the Peruvians did in Episode 2) is something that I'd like to see more of - it is something that bugged me about the MCU in general. The device that the Policia Nacional were trying to recover was Hydra-tech from the 50s - to me, that seems like the sort of thing Armin Zola might have been involved in, especially if he was given amnesty from war crimes as part of his deal with Colonel Philips in Captain America. However, it was my understanding that the Tesseract energy source was non-reproducible (though Stark's Arc Reactor might be changing that) - so where did the Peruvian government get their hand on a Tesseract power source in the 50s?

[Legato Endless]

Fun episode, didn't see the twist at the end...

...you know, the one where Skye is apparently working with someone else on Rising Tide? I probably SHOULD have seen it coming, but I didn't.

Ok, so, having nations resent SHIELD meddling (like the Peruvians did in Episode 2) is something that I'd like to see more of - it is something that bugged me about the MCU in general. The device that the Policia Nacional were trying to recover was Hydra-tech from the 50s - to me, that seems like the sort of thing Armin Zola might have been involved in, especially if he was given amnesty from war crimes as part of his deal with Colonel Philips in Captain America. However, it was my understanding that the Tesseract energy source was non-reproducible (though Stark's Arc Reactor might be changing that) - so where did the Peruvian government get their hand on a Tesseract power source in the 50s?

I believe they said it was gamma powered. I thought it was something the Hydra scientists took with them from Germany, not something they developed there, but I might have misheard.

Also, how would a beam weapon help the Peruvian Government deal with insurgents? Don't guerrillas normally avoid fighting pitched battles? I'm missing the strategic value here.

Did anyone else flinch when during the technobabble, Fitz said "emit pure energy." Bad physics is bad physics.

[Palanan]

Well, that was fun and hilarious. Easily eleven times better than the first episode. (But did anyone else feel like it was the A-Team meets Indiana Jones? All of which meets Air Force One?)

Evidently plot is not a major consideration in this new series. Depth of characterization may also take some time. Most frustrating were the jarring, choppy transitions between clever, intelligent scenes and the absolute hack writing of the standard predictable Hollywood tropes. There were moments where the script felt like it had been written by one person, and then covered in Post-Its by some studio editor.

As for the Mysterious Item of the Week:

Hot diggety, we've got some Hydra in the series. They're layering in the references: Hydra, tesseracts, Chitauri, secret energy weapons, Captain America, German bad guys, the works. Yes, we're in Marvel Country.


Originally Posted by Talyn
*see spoiler*


Originally Posted by Talyn
...where did the Peruvian government get their hand on a Tesseract power source in the 50s?

I think the idea was that this was a scavenged device from Hydra's tesseract-powered arsenal, brought to South America by a fleeing German scientist.



A Few Nitpicks:

First, I've flown over the Peruvian Amazon. Their effects crew could've done a little better.

Second, I've hiked in the Peruvian Amazon. You do not wear a suit and tie. Or an all-black leather bodysuit. Or a manly-man leather jacket. The two Brits were the only ones actually dressed for the climate.

Plus, I'd love to know where they found an airfield in the far reaches of the Peruvian Amazon large enough to accommodate the Bus. An unpaved dirt runway, mind you.

In a rainforest. Mud pit, anyone?



As for Coulson:

"Tahiti: it's a magical place."

The Valhalla theory is actually sounding better and better. Even Coulson himself mentioned the "afterlife," which sounds like he might be aware there's Something Odd Going On.

The last scene: priceless. I was howling nonstop.

Evidently Samuel L. Jackson decided to give his Nick Fury a little more Samuel L. Jackson.

Overall it was a ton of fun, and definitely worth the wait. There were some sappy moments and stock cliches, and the plot was pretty basic (curse your sudden and inevitable betrayal!) but it was a great workaday episode. Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D., punch your timecard, try not to die today.

.

[LaZodiac]

Good episode was good! I'm still holding out on him being a robot, but we'll see.

The only part I had issue with on this episode is that...I don't think a rescue raft would do that. MYTHBUSTERS, GET ONIT.

Oh, also, to any of the DEEP comic fans, is "The Cavalry" a thing in the comics? I get what they are presenting, she's the cavalry, the people/person called in when they REALLY need stuff killed, but I'm not sure if it's a thing in universe or not.

Also, the mention that the last 084 they had was "a hammer" made me squee a litt.e

[Legato Endless]

Good episode was good! I'm still holding out on him being a robot, but we'll see.

The only part I had issue with on this episode is that...I don't think a rescue raft would do that. MYTHBUSTERS, GET ONIT.

Oh, also, to any of the DEEP comic fans, is "The Cavalry" a thing in the comics? I get what they are presenting, she's the cavalry, the people/person called in when they REALLY need stuff killed, but I'm not sure if it's a thing in universe or not.


Calvary is New.

Even if it could stop the hole, I'm pretty sure they should all be dead from the change in air pressure from a hole that big...

[Empedocles]

Calvary is New.

Even if it could stop the hole, I'm pretty sure they should all be dead from the change in air pressure from a hole that big...

That's...not really how it works. Actually, if anything at all, the affect of a hole that size wouldn't have been quite so dramatic.

[Legato Endless]

That's...not really how it works. Actually, if anything at all, the affect of a hole that size wouldn't have been quite so dramatic.

Whoops. :smalleek:

I was told that films typically exaggerate leaks, since they are either too minor for drama, or too quick and you end up with an embolism or some such. Could you elaborate?

[leafman]

The scene is a bit silly, after the initial depressurization, objects and people wouldn't continue to be sucked out. The pressure difference would equal out in a few seconds.

[Dienekes]

Definitely an improvement, but some of those sappy moments were almost painful. Still, I enjoyed myself even though the "united against a common enemy" was the exact same point that was made in the Avengers movie.

Sammy J's cameo was hilarious and awesome and I hope sets the precedent for a few more of the heroes to appear. It'll be hard to juggle those who do and do not know of Coulson's resurrection though.

[HamHam]

Whoops. :smalleek:

I was told that films typically exaggerate leaks, since they are either too minor for drama, or too quick and you end up with an embolism or some such. Could you elaborate?


The scene is a bit silly, after the initial depressurization, objects and people wouldn't continue to be sucked out. The pressure difference would equal out in a few seconds.

Depending on the speed the wind effect could still be pretty significant.

But it's not like the actual pressure at that altitude is going to be all that deadly. Maybe if you passed out from the lack of oxygen you might suffer brain damage... eventually.

Anyway, relevant Mythbusters clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1_1l7M8FA)

[Philistine]

Re: Melinda May
Is Agent May a little bit Super? On first viewing, there were a couple of moments where it looked like maybe she teleported herself over short distances. That might go some distance toward explaining why even people who don't know who she is have still heard of "The Cavalry"... and it'd be a thematically appropriate name for someone with that sort of power... and it might be (part of) why She Doesn't Want To Talk About It.