Girl Genius!

[slayerx]

It's strange that the kitchen can talk without being connected to the main brain -- assuming the voice in the crypt was the main brain.

Once all the castle's brains are reconnected together, perhaps there is one dominant personality?

Well, the castle stated that what's running the castle now is a series of subsystems... rather stupid subsystems... and the kitchen apparently has one of it's own. If i had to guess, i would say that the main brain of the castle would connect them all together and allow them to act as one, if not have just the main castle as the only intellgence

[Porthos]

It's strange that the kitchen can talk without being connected to the main brain -- assuming the voice in the crypt was the main brain.

Once all the castle's brains are reconnected together, perhaps there is one dominant personality?


Well, the castle stated that what's running the castle now is a series of subsystems... rather stupid subsystems... and the kitchen apparently has one of it's own. If i had to guess, i would say that the main brain of the castle would connect them all together and allow them to act as one, if not have just the main castle as the only intellgence

As a matter of fact, there might be as many as 12 intellgences (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070803) at the moment (and in next page (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070806) Not!Agatha speculates that it might have once been a unified intelligence, but now the Castle is suffering from a severe case of split-personality). They probably all have the same voice because they were created all created by Faustus. In fact, they should all sound the same, other wise the Prison Work Detail might have twigged to the fact that they were different personalities on their own.

I'll say this much. When a Heterodyne creation goes bad, it doesn't do it by half-measures. :smallamused:

[Ganurath]

I'll say this much. When a Heterodyne creation goes bad, it doesn't do it by half-measures. :smallamused:For something to go bad, it has to be something other than bad in the first place. Heterodyne devices are not only bad as in evil, but bad as in BAD ASS.

[Porthos]

Someone's up for a Hugo..... :smallcool:

http://studiofoglio.livejournal.com/15875.html

What's interesting is that he's a two time winner, both times way back in the late 70's as Best Fan Artist. Now, thirty years later, he's up for Best Professional Artist.

Here's the competition:

http://www.denvention.org/hugos/08hugonomlist.php
Best Professional Artist

Bob Eggleton (Covers: To Outlive Eternity and Other Stories (Baen), Ivory (Pyr), & The Taint and Other Novellas (Subterranean))

Phil Foglio (Cover: Robert Asprin's Myth Adventures, Vol. 2 (Meisha Merlin), What's New (Dragon Magazine Aug. 2007, Girl Genius Vol. 6-Agatha Heterodyne & the Golden Trilobite (Airship Entertainment))

John Harris (Covers: Spindrift (Ace), Horizons (Tor), The Last Colony (Tor))

Stephan Martiniere (Covers: Brasyl (Pyr), Mainspring (Tor), The Dragons of Babel (Tor))

John Picacio (Covers: Fast Forward 1 (Pyr), Time's Child (HarperCollins/Eos), A Thousand Deaths (Golden Gryphon))

Shaun Tan
================================

This is definitely a case of "just getting nominated is an honor", and I don't know how much of a real chance he has of winning. But I wouldn't mind seeing him win, if only to shut up the elitist crowd that doesn't like his style of drawing. :smallwink:

[Porthos]

Once a minion, always a minion. :smallbiggrin:

[Corestimah]

Once a minion, always a minion. :smallbiggrin:

Well said (or, you know, typed, but you get the point).

Agatha is intrigued, and we all know that that can be a VERY good thing :smallbiggrin: Also, I think that dear Moloch will gradually become less adamantly opposed to working for Agatha as she continues to prove herself quite a sane, competent, and benevolent mistress, unlike the other sparks in the castle. I hope that Wilhelm will be another of Agatha's new minions once she learns the truth and Agatha repairs the Castle.

It's interesting to know that there are so many minor sparks imprisoned there, although on reflection it makes perfect sense. Major sparks would prove either too useful or too dangerous to send there, while minor sparks would do reasonably well on repair duty.

[thorgrim29]

Wow, the irony, the delicious irony.....

[Oracle_Hunter]

Poor Moloch.

Despite being Genre Savvy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy), the very Powers That Be have dictated a world where he has no choice but to follow the Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContractualGenreBlindness).

In other news: Agatha is just walking away? I mean, I know the kitchen isn't that important, but doesn't she want to investigate further? Pah, now we'll have to wait until later when said kitchen acknowledges her as a Heterodyne due to the blood samples on the cutlery for the truth to be revealed.

[chionophile]

Also, I think that dear Moloch will gradually become less adamantly opposed to working for Agatha as she continues to prove herself quite a sane, competent, and benevolent mistress, unlike the other sparks in the castle.

Well, she's certainly competent and benevolent. Sane is probably a toss-up based on her mood and situation.

[TigerHunter]

Poor Moloch.

Despite being Genre Savvy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy), the very Powers That Be have dictated a world where he has no choice but to follow the Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContractualGenreBlindness).
*slaps OH for luring him onto TVTropes, where yet another two hours of his life was lost forever*


In other news: Agatha is just walking away? I mean, I know the kitchen isn't that important, but doesn't she want to investigate further? Pah, now we'll have to wait until later when said kitchen acknowledges her as a Heterodyne due to the blood samples on the cutlery for the truth to be revealed.
Yeah. After her facial expression in the last comic I was expecting a mad-science rampage of some sort.

[Oracle_Hunter]

*slaps OH for luring him onto TVTropes, where yet another two hours of his life was lost forever*

Judo Trope (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife)!

Also, remember kids: Tropes Are Not Bad (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreNotBad)!

Finally: if you still have more time, check out The Universal Genre Savvy Guide (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheUniversalGenreSavvyGuide)! Click all the link to Catch 'em All (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GottaCatchThemAll)!


:biggrin:

[GGfan]

She's using almost the same tactics with Von Zinzer as she used with the castle itself... kinda saying, "Of course you're not my/anyone's minion. Now here, carry my stuff like a good little Mi-man."

Dealing with a spoiled child (which is pretty much the character of the castle) is almost-but not quite-like dealing with underlings, after all.

[BRC]

Hey, the proffesor is back!


Tsk Tsk, the chapters have not been good to you.

[slayerx]

Awe, guess who wasn't able to keep Beetleburg running without making a single mistake =p

Well, let's just hope for Agatha's sake, that he only knows her as Agatha clay and never found out about her Heterodyne connection... which is rather likely... especially since his memory of her being very non-sparky will help keep him from believing any such stories he might have heard

[chionophile]

Holy crap, is that the professor guy who blabbed about the hive engine at the very very beginning? I didn't recognize him in color.

[Porthos]

Well, that was a shock! :smallcool:

Sure he was threatened with Castle-ization, but I thought we might have some sort of warning. For him to just Appear Out Of Nowhere (which, if it isn't a Trope, it should be* :smallwink: ) is utterly fab.

Well played, Foglios. Well played indeed.

[Lord Xaedien]

Poor Moloch.

Despite being Genre Savvy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy), the very Powers That Be have dictated a world where he has no choice but to follow the Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContractualGenreBlindness).

In other news: Agatha is just walking away? I mean, I know the kitchen isn't that important, but doesn't she want to investigate further? Pah, now we'll have to wait until later when said kitchen acknowledges her as a Heterodyne due to the blood samples on the cutlery for the truth to be revealed.

I have absolute faith that the blood sample theory is dead wrong. It is far too convenient, and not very much fun. I seriously doubt the Foglios, master storycrafters that they are, are going to go all DNA evidence on us.

[Doc Filth]

Just giving this a second readthrough, and a question arises:

The first clank Agatha built in her sleep, in Beetleburg - before Gil reversed its order sequence and sent it back to Agatha, who had she programmed it to look for?

[Lord Xaedien]

The thieves who stole her locket

[Rockphed]

The thieves who stole her locket

Indeed. It even lit up when it found Von Zinzer in her lab.

[John Campbell]

Look on the bright side, Moloch! At least you haven't lost... your....

Huh. Okay, this is a terrible plan.

[sihnfahl]

Awe, guess who wasn't able to keep Beetleburg running without making a single mistake =p
Guess who was given an illusion of an out but was really set up to fail?

[BRC]

Did they change agatha's text? I could swear that last night just just said "Is everybody I know in here"

[slayerx]

Did they change agatha's text? I could swear that last night just just said "Is everybody I know in here"

Yep, i remember what it used to say too...
My guess is that the foglios figured that not everyone would reconize Merlot right off the bat... i recognized him, but i had forgotten his name

[Oracle_Hunter]

Sure he was threatened with Castle-ization, but I thought we might have some sort of warning. For him to just Appear Out Of Nowhere (which, if it isn't a Trope, it should be* :smallwink: ) is utterly fab.

The trope you are looking for is Chekhov's Gunman (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGunman). :smallcool:

Usage: After being given control of Beetleburg, Merlot was threatened with being sent to Castle Heterodyne if he didn't complete an impossible task (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20030127). However, the action moved so far away from Beetleburg after that, that the readers no longer even considered Merlot (or Glassvitch!) as having any future role in the plot. Little did they know that Castle Heterodyne would be chock full of Checkov's Gunmen!

[Ganurath]

The trope you are looking for is Chekhov's Gunman (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGunman). :smallcool:

Usage: After being given control of Beetleburg, Merlot was threatened with being sent to Castle Heterodyne if he didn't complete an impossible task (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20030127). However, the action moved so far away from Beetleburg after that, that the readers no longer even considered Merlot (or Glassvitch!) as having any future role in the plot. Little did they know that Castle Heterodyne would be chock full of Checkov's Gunmen!Ten bucks says Othar somehow found a way inside.

[Elhana]

Did they change agatha's text? I could swear that last night just just said "Is everybody I know in here"

Oh good, I'm not the only one who noticed. I was beginning to think that maybe I just hallucinated that it was different last night.

I also think it was fuzzier last night too...

[Gez]

Ten bucks says Othar somehow found a way inside.
What about Lady Vrin?

She should look on the bright side of things -- at least she can't have both Anevka and Lucrezianevka at the same time; so she won't have everybody who hates her, at most it'll be everybody minus one. :smallbiggrin:

[sihnfahl]

What about Lady Vrin?
Doubtful. Last time we saw Lady Vrin, Lucrezia gave her an order.

And, as a revenant, Vrin would have to follow it, no questions asked.

Vrin. DIE. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061113)

[slayerx]

What about Lady Vrin?

She should look on the bright side of things -- at least she can't have both Anevka and Lucrezianevka at the same time; so she won't have everybody who hates her, at most it'll be everybody minus one. :smallbiggrin:

She's Dead (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061113) Gez... so that makes 2 that can't be there...

[edit]ninja'd...

[Aquillion]

Usage: After being given control of Beetleburg, Merlot was threatened with being sent to Castle Heterodyne if he didn't complete an impossible task (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20030127). However, the action moved so far away from Beetleburg after that, that the readers no longer even considered Merlot (or Glassvitch!) as having any future role in the plot. Little did they know that Castle Heterodyne would be chock full of Checkov's Gunmen!It's also possible that he was thrown in simply for knowing Agatha (after being interrogated, of course). The Baron would want to interrogate him to learn everything about her, and after doing that (and revealing Agatha's importance) he could hardly let the guy free... throwing him into Castle Heterodyne would be the logical solution, since he had that fate hanging over him anyway and nobody would be surprised by it.

Of course, it's just as likely he was just thrown in for screwing up. We'll probably know in the next page, anyway.


Doubtful. Last time we saw Lady Vrin, Lucrezia gave her an order.

And, as a revenant, Vrin would have to follow it, no questions asked.

Vrin. DIE. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061113)Yes. But she followed it offscreen. You can look up the exact modifier on the sorting algorithm yourself, but you get the picture... as a construct, it's not impossible that someone on the Baron's side found a way to revive her despite the order. They could have had experience working with that sort of construct before (see also: Von Pinn).

[Gez]

And, as a revenant, Vrin would have to follow it, no questions asked.

But is it really an order you can follow? I can tell she's trying hard, though, what with the coughing and stuff.

But you know, don't trust anyone is dead until you've seen the body. And checked it for DNA to be sure it's the real body. And hacked it into tiny bits afterwards. And burned the bits. And burrowed the ashes. In at least ten different locations, all remote from each others.

[dogmac]

So, was anyone else, like me, "forced" to go and read the first 50 odd comics again?

I mean, just to refresh the memory and all....

[slayerx]

It's also possible that he was thrown in simply for knowing Agatha (after being interrogated, of course). The Baron would want to interrogate him to learn everything about her, and after doing that (and revealing Agatha's importance) he could hardly let the guy free... throwing him into Castle Heterodyne would be the logical solution, since he had that fate hanging over him anyway and nobody would be surprised by it.


I don't think that's likely... the first action Klaus took when he found out that Agatha was a heterodyne was send Gil and Dupree to go after her; after that they found she was dead and Klaus called off the search. This was hardly enough time for Klaus to do an interrogation of Merlot... and after Klaus found out Agatha was still alive, he immediatly went after her and ended up in the hospital... again, no time for an interrogation...

Also, Klaus knew that Gil was reviving Punch and Judy and they would certainly be able to tell Klaus much more than whatever Merlot have... also it seems like the Baron did get some kind of reports (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040303) from those working with doctor beetle... not to mention, the Baron probably would get the feeling that Beetle would not involve Merlot with Agatha; especially with the way Merlot was treating Agatha as opposed to how beetle was treating her

And Klaus does follow a certain degree of Law... i don't think he would have someone thrown in prison for knowing too much when it was HIM that told the person the information... that would seem more tyrannical than what the Baron is known for; Klaus is a tyrant, but he does it for noble reasons... More likely, if the Baron did feed Merlot such information, to keep Merlot quiet he would either Pay him, offer him a job on castle wulfenbach, or send him to castle Heterodyne for not cooperating... and no one would take the third option... it's kinda like how he treats enemy troops...

not to mention there are a few others who know about Agatha, such as all of the students that fled, and i certainly don't think the baron is planning on killing them all to keep them quiet... he probably doesn't think it matters... if he can get rid of Agatha, then their knowledge will be meaningless since it will just come off as some wild story; they can't prove a thing... and if the Barons CAN'T get rid of Agatha, then their knowledge still won't matter since Agatha would make herself known anyway...

So ya... Merlot probably just screwed up badly...

[Oracle_Hunter]

Agatha has Sparky Regeneration Powers!

Compare (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080324) (top right and panel below) and contrast (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080326) (especially bottom panel).

I worry... does this mean the Foglios are getting rushed in their work? That's a pretty major continuity error for a folks as good as the Foglios.

[slayerx]

Agatha has Sparky Regeneration Powers!

Compare (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080324) (top right and panel below) and contrast (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080326) (especially bottom panel).

I worry... does this mean the Foglios are getting rushed in their work? That's a pretty major continuity error for a folks as good as the Foglios.

i think they have done a few continuity errors before...
one i recall was in the first chapter... the Baron knew that Agatha had seen the time window and was planning on questioning her about it... however, it seems he completely forgot all about that later on as he never took time to ask her about it... i vaguely recall seeing just a few other things, but i can't really remember them (probably not very significant

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Pull over, I'm hijackin' this here thread fer me own purposes!

*cough*

Now then, we've all been predicting stuff and junk. Let's take a skip and a hop back in time, yah? Let's question an unexplained part of the universe, eh?

Specifically: Jagers. I like Jagers. I don't think anyone here doesn't. But does anyone have any theories as to how the noble Jager is created?

Let's look at some stuff that we know that I thought of as I pondered this question. We know they were made by the Heterodynes. We know they're damn near invincible and excrutiatingly long lived. We know some of them have human descendants. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060726) Interestingly, we have heard mention of something called the "Jager-Draught" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070228) (second last panel) and it is interesting enough that having someone famous/powerful allegedly drink it is big enough news to be part of the massive string of rumours.

By this point, just by the way I pointed it out, most of you have figured out that my theory states that it heavily involves the drinking of this jager-draught. But all this is what I figured out using a faulty memory core and a few quick archive trawls. I'm sure you obsessed folk could do better. Let's compile everything we know and figure it out, for the good of the nerds, eh?

This ramble is sponsored by the Procrastication Dept. of Bordeom Ltd. and is brought to you by Lazy Addicts and Viewers Like Me.

[BRC]

Pull over, I'm hijackin' this here thread fer me own purposes!

*cough*

Now then, we've all been predicting stuff and junk. Let's take a skip and a hop back in time, yah? Let's question an unexplained part of the universe, eh?

Specifically: Jagers. I like Jagers. I don't think anyone here doesn't. But does anyone have any theories as to how the noble Jager is created?

Let's look at some stuff that we know that I thought of as I pondered this question. We know they were made by the Heterodynes. We know they're damn near invincible and excrutiatingly long lived. We know some of them have human descendants. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060726) Interestingly, we have heard mention of something called the "Jager-Draught" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070228) (second last panel) and it is interesting enough that having someone famous/powerful allegedly drink it is big enough news to be part of the massive string of rumours.

By this point, just by the way I pointed it out, most of you have figured out that my theory states that it heavily involves the drinking of this jager-draught. But all this is what I figured out using a faulty memory core and a few quick archive trawls. I'm sure you obsessed folk could do better. Let's compile everything we know and figure it out, for the good of the nerds, eh?

This ramble is sponsored by the Procrastication Dept. of Bordeom Ltd. and is brought to you by Lazy Addicts and Viewers Like Me.
I'm thinking that the Jager Draught gradually transforms the drinker into a Jager. However, those changes are not genetic in nature, so a Jager's DNA is still human which means they could have human descendants (Besides, I'm pretty sure that you couldn't transform somebody quickly by changing thier DNA, because DNA DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY
. Either that or any human descendants come from before the Jagerification occured.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

A similiar theory to mine. It is, of course, entirely possible that the Jager-Draught is only one step in the process.

[slayerx]

A similiar theory to mine. It is, of course, entirely possible that the Jager-Draught is only one step in the process.

Apparently, not a new theory though...
http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Jägerbräu

Also, we can't tell if Jagers can reproduce or not... if all jagers were once human than any decedents they might have could have been decended from offspring they had BEFORE they turned into jagers...

What i would like to know though, is more about the Baron's forces... i kind want to know who the glass headed constructs (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060313) are... looking at the background they seem to work in pairs as the larger males are always seen paired with a female... I'm guessing they're the Dreen (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040809), since those are the only names that we have heard of but do not seem to be connected to anything we've seen... though i can't recall if we've seen any other constructs that might be the Dreen that i'm forgetting about... that Girl genius wiki, for one, mentions them being on the castle, but has no info on them; i guess they don't want to jump to conclusions...

[TigerHunter]

http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Jägerbräu

THE EYES! THEY BLEEEED!

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Apparently, not a new theory though...
http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Jägerbräu


*sniff* That is truly beautiful.

[chionophile]

THE EYES! THEY BLEEEED!

Eh? The coloring's not that bad; I've seen much, much worse. In fact, the maroon is rather nice.

Or are you talking about the abundance of Jager-speak? 'Cuz that's mildly annoying.

[Ganurath]

Speaking of theories, the guys who just attacked Mechanicsburg are from the Gilded Duke. So are the Lakyas who have their hands in all of the Baron's administrative functions. Wulfenbach can't send them off like the Jaegers, so...?

[slayerx]

Speaking of theories, the guys who just attacked Mechanicsburg are from the Gilded Duke. So are the Lakyas who have their hands in all of the Baron's administrative functions. Wulfenbach can't send them off like the Jaegers, so...?

The Gilded Duke, was Duke D'omas, the spark that Moloch used to work under... Klaus has already gotten rid of him and the people he used to rule over are glad he's gone... and the guys who just attacked with the war clanks claimed to be from the house of Valois, members of the Knights of Jove...

from the wiki, the knights of Jove were formed under the storm king and we know them better as the knights who serve lucrezia; Travek's father was one... if i had to guess, the rest of the knights did not hear about Lucrezia's return and are know playing the storm king angle with their claim to be from the house of Valois... it's very possible that they are working with the people behind Zola... Zola provides the heterodyne female, and they provide the storm king heir and the reenact the storm king fairy tale... question is, were they planning on using Travek? or did the set up a fake storm king heir... i assume a fake since it does not sound like Travek was part of this plan; plus he's currently being held by Klaus... though it's also possible that theirs another storm king descendent

[TigerHunter]

Eh? The coloring's not that bad; I've seen much, much worse. In fact, the maroon is rather nice.

Or are you talking about the abundance of Jager-speak? 'Cuz that's mildly annoying.
The Jager-speak. I have no troubles in the comic, but in paragraph form...

[Ganurath]

The Jager-speak. I have no troubles in the comic, but in paragraph form...Hyu kent handle de Jagertroth, kan hyu?

[TigerHunter]

Hyu kent handle de Jagertroth, kan hyu?
A sentense or two, eez hokay. But paragrafs of de shtuff? Eet hurts.

[Sampi]

Panel 5
(http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040915)Maybe it isn't just everyone that hates her...

[stm177]

http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040702

The two blue Dalek style constructs in the second panel are supposedly Dreen. The ones with the Asian straw hats and single large eyes. I have no link to back me up, and I heard it second hand from a Foglio Q&A.

[Muzzafar]

Hi folks!
I hope you will be able to answer a question related to the past events. I really wonder why Agatha so readily
disclosed her identity (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051109) during the dinner with the prince?
What was she playing at?

[stm177]

For plot reasons, the Foglios wanted to re-cap the story.

In-story, Tarvek and his father drugged her wine with a truth serum.

[sihnfahl]

But is it really an order you can follow? I can tell she's trying hard, though, what with the coughing and stuff.
The slaver wasp is directly tied into her brain. It would shut off her autonomic functions at the brain stem. Death is sure to follow.


as a construct, it's not impossible that someone on the Baron's side found a way to revive her despite the order.
We're not sure the Geister are constructs.
And why revive an enemy? As Gil pointed out ... all you need is the head (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080307) to get all the information you want out of someone who died.

[Gez]

The slaver wasp is directly tied into her brain. It would shut off her autonomic functions at the brain stem. Death is sure to follow.

I won't believe her dead until her death is confirmed by a credible source, or if she's never heard of anymore until Phil Foglio pens the final "The End"...

It's just not how story works.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I really want to know what Barry told Beetle about Klaus (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060324).

[stm177]

I really want to know what Barry told Beetle about Klaus (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060324).

Me too. It caused the original rift between Agatha and Klaus. I can come up with some theories, but we'll only really know when Barry shows up to stop Gil from marrying Agatha.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

I won't believe her dead until her death is confirmed by a credible source, or if she's never heard of anymore until Phil Foglio pens the final "The End"...

It's just not how story works.

She might not even be dead then. Spin-offs, people! Spin-offs!

To those of you now eyeing me and measuring me up for a small, mutilated head-sized coffin, that's just how the world works. This is the internet. It's about as far from being the world of television as a tomato is from being a humourous conversation between two obsessive pronunciation 'experts' (read: think they're right and everyoe else is wrong) people, one American and one British.

My analogies need work. :smallannoyed:

[Muzzafar]

In-story, Tarvek and his father drugged her wine with a truth serum.
Mmm... Is that your assumption or is that shown (or mentioned) somewhere in the comic?

[Tirian]

I really want to know what Barry told Beetle about Klaus (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060324).

"Apparently Barry claimed that *I*..."

I think the italics on the last word is important. Since the conversation before was about hoarding a hive engine that Klaus wanted, I'm not quite sure what plausible reading to suggest other than "... was (under the control of) the Other." He didn't finish the sentence because he didn't want to plant the suggestion in Bang's head, as it would be a hard charge to rebut.

Of course, later in the volume (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061101), the rumor gets out all the same and we see that Klaus is concerned about its impact, although he had no need to worry about Bang's allegiance.

[BRC]

Mmm... Is that your assumption or is that shown (or mentioned) somewhere in the comic?
It is never explicitally said, but it is highly implied.

[Tirian]

Mmm... Is that your assumption or is that shown (or mentioned) somewhere in the comic?

BEHOLD (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051114) as Prince Aaronev stares at an amphora of wine and questions whether he "used too much"!
RECALL (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051109) as a similar amphora of wine is used to pour wine into Agatha's glass which she drinks three panels before launching into exposition!

[Nerd-o-rama]

Mmm... Is that your assumption or is that shown (or mentioned) somewhere in the comic?
How about the last panel of the second page after that? I can't think of anything else they could be talking about.

It says a lot about this site's server problems and my own easily distracted nature that I was ninja'd by a quarter of an hour.

[Human Paragon 3]

I love that spit take.

[stm177]

"Apparently Barry claimed that *I*..."

I think the italics on the last word is important. Since the conversation before was about hoarding a hive engine that Klaus wanted, I'm not quite sure what plausible reading to suggest other than "... was (under the control of) the Other." He didn't finish the sentence because he didn't want to plant the suggestion in Bang's head, as it would be a hard charge to rebut.



My pet theory is that Barry thought Klaus attacked Castle Heterodyne, and killed Bill's son. If you want to get complicated, maybe a time-traveling Gil did it.

[Flame_Drake]

Well, so much for Agatha's plan of doing anything without being noticed.

Drake

[stm177]

Scene change on Monday?

[BRC]

It's a shame Agatha hasn't had time to let the Dingbots do their thing in the castle, or time to build a death ray or two.
Also, who here would play an RTS chronicaling the rise of the Wulfenbach empire.
*Raises hand*

[Ryuuk]

Ah, Friday cliffhangers, were would we be without you.

[slayerx]

Well ****... Merlot knows and he's defiantly out to get her...

Well... Aquillion's theory about Merlot just became much more plausible... though less about knowing too much and more about possibly being part of beetle's schemes involving Agatha; Klaus can't really prove or disprove that... though that might mean Agatha's favorite professor would likely also be there for similar reasons

Not many other reasons for Merlot knowing who Agatha really is a blaming HER for his recent predicament...

[averagejoe]

While y'all are on the subject of plot clarification, I was wondering if anyone could help me out with this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070810) bit, and tell me why the heck that's so significant. Its been bothering the heck out of me, and I am not very good at dates and time.

[TigerHunter]

While y'all are on the subject of plot clarification, I was wondering if anyone could help me out with this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070810) bit, and tell me why the heck that's so significant. Its been bothering the heck out of me, and I am not very good at dates and time.
The last time I tried to answer one of these, I turned out to be dead wrong, but... I think it's meant to lay to rest any speculations that Klaus (Wulfenbach) could have been Klaus (Heterodyne)'s father.

[Muzzafar]

Thanks a lot for the clarification, guys! :smallsmile:

[Rockphed]

How about the last panel of the second page after that? I can't think of anything else they could be talking about.

It says a lot about this site's server problems and my own easily distracted nature that I was ninja'd by a quarter of an hour.

I have managed to get ninja'd by several hours(I think I once managed to get ninja'd by almost a day:smallredface: )

[Gez]

While y'all are on the subject of plot clarification, I was wondering if anyone could help me out with this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070810) bit, and tell me why the heck that's so significant. Its been bothering the heck out of me, and I am not very good at dates and time.

Usually, barring mixups in the maternity, you always know for sure who a child's mother is. The way the baby gets out of the mother's womb, still tied by the umbilical cord, has a way of presenting filiation in as unambiguous a way as possible. This is not so true for the mother, if she had sexual intercourse with several fertile men, which one is the father?

Here, the mother is Lucrezia Mongfish-Heterodyne. Who was known for having been a lover of Klaus Wulfenbach. The child's first name is Klaus. Is it just Klaus, or is it really Klaus Junior?

The gestation period for humans being nine month, that Klaus disappeared completely three times this period (two years and three months: twenty-seven months) would tend to prove that, whoever that child's father was, it most certainly wasn't the Baron. Even though the Spark allows to tell the normal laws of nature to sit in the corner and shut up, no woman, no matter how demented, would want a twenty-seven-month pregnancy.

This is all there is to it -- the evidence that, whatever the rumors say, K. B. Heterodyne was not the illegitimate son of Klaus Wulfenbach.

Mind you, it doesn't prove he was really the son of William Heterodyne, since I'm sure Lucrezia wouldn't have much problem finding other lovers if so she wished... But we can presume he was a genuine Heterodyne anyway.

[Maniaxe]

Hey everybody! New guy here!

Does anyone else think that if Agatha takes over the castle, and becomes THE Heterodyne of Mechanicsburg, it could cause a split in the Jaeger ranks? I get this idea from the generals Agatha had tea with on Castle Wulfenbach.

The Fez guy seemed to notice her with Gil and the possible ramifications of it, and seems to approve. The bald one with tusks doesn't approve, while Dome head seems to be the neutral party here. My beliefs?

FEZ GUYS POSITION: If Agatha marries Gil the jaeger can go back to the Heterodynes without buring there bridges with Klaus. The Jaeger can go back to the Heterodynes, and still keep their arrangement with the Empire, essentially everybody wins. I get the feeling that Dimo, Maxim, Oggie, and Jenka are also in this position.

TUSK GUYS POSITION: Our primary loyalty must be to the Heterodynes. If this means just up and leaving the Baron, so be it.

DOME HEADS POSITION: Will both of you shut up, and come drink your tea!

Mind you this is just specualtion on my part.

[GGfan]

Well! In a way this is a good thing, since it will keep Zola preoccupied with hunting down Agatha, and not focusing solely on destroying the castle. So that way, this buys Agatha more time. Of course, that time will be taken up with trying to avoid the murdering hordes, so it's also a bad thing in the extreme.

On the other hand, she's more likely to stumble on the Library by accident while trying to find a hiding place.

A side note: All this time I've been under the impression that Agatha was born AFTER little Klaus- probably after everyone disappeared. But now I'm starting to think that maybe she was born before. Any thoughts?

[slayerx]

Usually, barring mixups in the maternity, you always know for sure who a child's mother is. The way the baby gets out of the mother's womb, still tied by the umbilical cord, has a way of presenting filiation in as unambiguous a way as possible. This is not so true for the mother, if she had sexual intercourse with several fertile men, which one is the father?

Here, the mother is Lucrezia Mongfish-Heterodyne. Who was known for having been a lover of Klaus Wulfenbach. The child's first name is Klaus. Is it just Klaus, or is it really Klaus Junior?

The gestation period for humans being nine month, that Klaus disappeared completely three times this period (two years and three months: twenty-seven months) would tend to prove that, whoever that child's father was, it most certainly wasn't the Baron. Even though the Spark allows to tell the normal laws of nature to sit in the corner and shut up, no woman, no matter how demented, would want a twenty-seven-month pregnancy.

This is all there is to it -- the evidence that, whatever the rumors say, K. B. Heterodyne was not the illegitimate son of Klaus Wulfenbach.

Mind you, it doesn't prove he was really the son of William Heterodyne, since I'm sure Lucrezia wouldn't have much problem finding other lovers if so she wished... But we can presume he was a genuine Heterodyne anyway.
Ok, i see how the readers would get that, but how about the characters...
i doubt anyone knew that Klaus and Lucrezia were lovers; i don't think Bill would have purposed if he knew that affair was going on... is far more likely that the relationship between Klaus and Lucrezia was a secret affair... not to emntion that if he was the baron's son he would not have been a heterodyne... so ya, for the characters, the thought that Klaus Heterodyne might have been the son of the Baron was non-existent... They find that whole thing with the son to be strenge and something doesn't add up... finding out that the child was NOT an illegitimate son would not come of ass strange to anyone... also, i think to be Klaus jr. i think the child generally has the same middle name...

So no i don't think that's what he was talking about


While y'all are on the subject of plot clarification, I was wondering if anyone could help me out with this bit, and tell me why the heck that's so significant. Its been bothering the heck out of me, and I am not very good at dates and time.
Glad i'm not the only one confused about that whole scene...

However, i did just now think of one possibility...
i think one tradition amongst families is to name the son after their godfather... Having the first name of "Klaus" could mean that Bill had named his best friend as the child's godfather... Question is though, after disappearing for 2 years with no signs of return, would it make sense to name a missing man as the child's godfather? better to name him after Barry first and name him the first godfather...

Grant it, that theory ain't certain... afterall, naming a child after a close friend instead of a godparent, particularly a friend that has gone missing, is certainly not unheard of... also, it could be that the first name of the child is "Klaus-Barry" and that is not a first and middle name, which would also make it strange thinking about it that way...

That's the best i can come up with... from the context of the scene, it sounds like there is something strange about how the child was named and how long the baron was gone for


Hey everybody! New guy here!

Does anyone else think that if Agatha takes over the castle, and becomes THE Heterodyne of Mechanicsburg, it could cause a split in the Jaeger ranks? I get this idea from the generals Agatha had tea with on Castle Wulfenbach.

The Fez guy seemed to notice her with Gil and the possible ramifications of it, and seems to approve. The bald one with tusks doesn't approve, while Dome head seems to be the neutral party here. My beliefs?
Their will be no "split" amognst the jagers... they ALL know that the heterodyne's come first and foremost, and will leave the baron at the drop of the hat once they are certian that she is the heir (though not their hats =p)

What i think was going on with the generals at their tea party was that the Fez general was thinking of ways to make things simpler for Agatha... a new heterodyne is bound to cause trouble with Klaus (who rules most of Europa), and a Wulfenbach/Heterodyne alliance would make things a lot simpler; especially if they could get the alliance before the baron even knows she's a heterodyne... Fez doesn't care about staying with the Baron, and will sever ties with the baron as fast as the others

[kagato23]

Hey everybody! New guy here!

Does anyone else think that if Agatha takes over the castle, and becomes THE Heterodyne of Mechanicsburg, it could cause a split in the Jaeger ranks? I get this idea from the generals Agatha had tea with on Castle Wulfenbach.

The Fez guy seemed to notice her with Gil and the possible ramifications of it, and seems to approve. The bald one with tusks doesn't approve, while Dome head seems to be the neutral party here. My beliefs?

FEZ GUYS POSITION: If Agatha marries Gil the jaeger can go back to the Heterodynes without buring there bridges with Klaus. The Jaeger can go back to the Heterodynes, and still keep their arrangement with the Empire, essentially everybody wins. I get the feeling that Dimo, Maxim, Oggie, and Jenka are also in this position.

TUSK GUYS POSITION: Our primary loyalty must be to the Heterodynes. If this means just up and leaving the Baron, so be it.

DOME HEADS POSITION: Will both of you shut up, and come drink your tea!

Mind you this is just specualtion on my part.

There will be no split. Tusk guys position is basically the only position a Jager can take. With the exception of Vole. I'm sure there will be different opinions amongst the Jagers, with many finding Fez guys position desirable, but however it plays out, they will all go with whatever the heterodyne in residence says. There might be some arguments, but there's no faction that will "stay" with the Baron unless Agatha specifically ordered this.

If the radio dramas are canon, we know at some point in the future Agatha leads an army of Jager's in her adventures, and that Jenka and Oggie are present, alive and well (Jenka is a character in the drama, directly serving her lady, and she mentions that at a party the previous night a very drunk Agatha kissed Oggie cause "she kinda misses him."). Not that I think the other two have died mind, but they weren't mentioned.

[TigerHunter]

If the radio dramas are canon, we know at some point in the future Agatha leads an army of Jager's in her adventures, and that Jenka and Oggie are present, alive and well (Jenka is a character in the drama, directly serving her lady, and she mentions that at a party the previous night a very drunk Agatha kissed Oggie cause "she kinda misses him."). Not that I think the other two have died mind, but they weren't mentioned.
What? Who? When? Where?

I don't seem to remember this at all...

[chionophile]

What? Who? When? Where?

I don't seem to remember this at all...

I haven't listened to these yet so I don't know if this is what is being referenced, but I bet your questions will be answered if you listen to the podcasts here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/radio/radio.php).

[TigerHunter]

I haven't listened to these yet so I don't know if this is what is being referenced, but I bet your questions will be answered if you listen to the podcasts here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/radio/radio.php).
Ah. I assumed he meant something like the Revenge of the Weasel Queen in-comic.

[Rockphed]

However, i did just now think of one possibility...
i think one tradition amongst families is to name the son after their godfather... Having the first name of "Klaus" could mean that Bill had named his best friend as the child's godfather... Question is though, after disappearing for 2 years with no signs of return, would it make sense to name a missing man as the child's godfather? better to name him after Barry first and name him the first godfather...

Grant it, that theory ain't certain... afterall, naming a child after a close friend instead of a godparent, particularly a friend that has gone missing, is certainly not unheard of... also, it could be that the first name of the child is "Klaus-Barry" and that is not a first and middle name, which would also make it strange thinking about it that way...

It mostly likely is that Bill wanted to honor his good friend Klaus, who he presumed dead.

[Midnight Lurker]

I believe that there was never any such person as Klaus Barry Heterodyne: the kid was Agatha all along.

Hypothesis: Lucrezia was not the Other at the time of her marriage, but just another of Her descendants, and knew she was in line to be her ultimate-grandmother's next host body. She was on the run. And when she had a daughter, in defiance of the usual Heterodyne pattern, she decided to conceal this from the Other... maybe going so far as to have her own memories altered so that if she got brainjacked she wouldn't betray her offspring. So no one, absolutely no one but perhaps Bill and Barry, not even the Castle itself, was allowed to know the baby's true gender.

In short: Klaus Barry is a hoax. Discuss.

[Aquillion]

My pet theory is that Barry thought Klaus attacked Castle Heterodyne, and killed Bill's son. If you want to get complicated, maybe a time-traveling Gil did it.Or a time-travelling Klaus. Who is under the control of the Other now, remember? It seems quite plausible that whatever Barry saw that made him distrust Klaus has to do with the (definitely untrustworthy, no matter how he feels about it) Reverent-Klaus we have today.


I believe that there was never any such person as Klaus Barry Heterodyne: the kid was Agatha all along.Impossible. It is very simple what happened; yes, it's fun to make up convoluted theories sometimes, but this is straightforward.

Look at the timeline: Klaus Barry was born. A year later, he dies in the attack (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070810). After the attack Lucrezia, flees -- pregnent with Agatha (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051230). The over-a-year gap is more than enough time for Lucrezia to become pregnant again.

It isn't possible for Agatha to have been born at Castle Heterodyne; she was born after the attack, while Lucrezia was with the priestesses. Lucrezia had two children; the older one died, the younger one didn't. She was pregnant during the attack. That's all.

Also, the attack on Castle Heterodyne wasn't Lucrezia, obviously -- but we knew this already, since as Agatha points out in one of the pages I linked to above, it doesn't really make sense for her to kill her own son, and since there just doesn't seem to be any way to make it a sane action for Lucrezia in the first place (she was winning at that point -- she had everything she wanted -- and if she wanted to kill her husband for some reason, there would have been vastly simpler and safer ways to do it than a large-scale assaulting on Castle Heterodyne while she, personally, was there. Just about anything would have been better.)

A more plausible theory for the attack is that it was someone attempting to kill Agatha as a child, either because they are from the future or because they had at least some hazy knowledge of what was to come and knew the prophecy about the female Heterodyne. But the fact that Lucrezia was pregnant again was not yet public knowledge, and whoever was responsible for the attack was acting on incomplete knowledge, so they killed wrong baby (well, there wasn't a younger baby yet, but you get the idea. The fact that Agatha's birth was impending triggered some alarms somewhere, or someone attacked from the future or whatever... but they messed it up.)

The nice thing about this theory is that it not only explains everything, but also provides a reason for the baby boy, in a narrative sense.

For the identity of the attacker, one theory is that it was Klaus from the future.


He has a motive to want to not just kill Agatha, but erase her from history entirely (thinking she's the Other, plus the prophecy about the female Heterodyne is insanely dangerous to him)
He has incomplete knowledge of that period of time (because he wasn't there); he's one of the few people who would know when/where to attack, but could easily not know the gender of the older baby or the fact that Lucrezia was pregnant with the younger one.
This would easily explain why Barry doesn't trust him, assuming Barry ever found out who was responsible.

One problem with this is that if Lucrezia knew he was behind the attack, she would know not to take him as lightly as she does when we first meet her. But this can be explained in any of a number of ways -- the easy way is that nobody knew who was responsible for the attack when it happened (Barry may only have discovered it after lengthy investigation), while another possibility is that we don't really know where/when the mental 'copy' of Lucrezia we meet comes from (so she might not actually have lived through the attack.)

[slayerx]

It mostly likely is that Bill wanted to honor his good friend Klaus, who he presumed dead.

well yes, i already guessed that... but that doesn't at all explain the strip we are talking about... Bill insisted that the child be named Klaus Barry Heterodyne, and the the child was born two years and three moths after the baron disappeared... Something is wrong here, their is something seriously logically wrong with this; Something that is so obvious that it's actually surprising how many people don't figure it out themselves... What is wrong with that scene, what do we not know and what are we not realizing?

Perhaps the only good explaination is that we the readers are not supposed to know... While we know certain events went on, we don't have exact dates and as such we don't know enough to tell what's going on in that scene... i really don't know, and that page has been annoying me for a long time

[Aquillion]

well yes, i already guessed that... but that doesn't at all explain the strip we are talking about... Bill insisted that the child be named Klaus Barry Heterodyne, and the the child was born two years and three moths after the baron disappeared... Something is wrong here, their is something seriously logically wrong with this; Something that is so obvious that it's actually surprising how many people don't figure it out themselves... What is wrong with that scene, what do we not know and what are we not realizing?

Perhaps the only good explaination is that we the readers are not supposed to know... While we know certain events went on, we don't have exact dates and as such we don't know enough to tell what's going on in that scene... i really don't know, and that page has been annoying me for a long timeI'm not sure what you think is so odd about it. There were rumors about Klaus and Lucrezia (the secret blueprints even note that one of the main reasons Klaus was suspected of being the Other was because people thought it was his reaction to Lucrezia scorning him--after he sulked off for a while, of course.) Nearly everyone knew there was a love triangle there; it wasn't common knowledge that Lucrezia and Klaus were actually sleeping together, but the Secret Blueprints make it clear that when Klaus disappeared, most people thought it was his reaction to Lucrezia choosing Bill over him.

That strip is Master Heliotrope making it very clear that Klaus Barry Heterodyne was not Klaus' son, despite the rumors. (With a name like that, as Krosp says, you can see why.) If you look at the frame where he says "You'd be amazed how many people ignore the math!", you can see that it's obviously being played for comedy. He is saying that because people ignore the fact that it is, well, rather more than nine months.

That's all the page is. There's nothing else, and given that it was mostly played as a one-off joke, no other references to it are likely to be made again.

[kagato23]

Ah. I assumed he meant something like the Revenge of the Weasel Queen in-comic.

No, he had it right, I meant the actual radio dramas, not the ones put into the comic. "The sleepy clank" because of references made has to take place after the current storyline, as several characters reference experiences living in Castle Hetrodyne. The other one is more general, and could happen at any time after Agatha met Othar for the second time.

Listen to both though, they are great.

[Porthos]

That's all the page is. There's nothing else, and given that it was mostly played as a one-off joke, no other references to it are likely to be made again.

How dare you deny us our Epileptic Trees (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees) well thought out theories! :smallannoyed:


That is to say, I agree with everything you say. :smalltongue: Really, all this page was doing was acknowledging that some people thought that Klaus was playing "hide the sausage" with Lucrezia and that the baby was proof.

Nothing more, nothing less. :smallsmile:

[averagejoe]

Usually, barring mixups in the maternity, you always know for sure who a child's mother is. The way the baby gets out of the mother's womb, still tied by the umbilical cord, has a way of presenting filiation in as unambiguous a way as possible. This is not so true for the mother, if she had sexual intercourse with several fertile men, which one is the father?

Here, the mother is Lucrezia Mongfish-Heterodyne. Who was known for having been a lover of Klaus Wulfenbach. The child's first name is Klaus. Is it just Klaus, or is it really Klaus Junior?

The gestation period for humans being nine month, that Klaus disappeared completely three times this period (two years and three months: twenty-seven months) would tend to prove that, whoever that child's father was, it most certainly wasn't the Baron. Even though the Spark allows to tell the normal laws of nature to sit in the corner and shut up, no woman, no matter how demented, would want a twenty-seven-month pregnancy.

This is all there is to it -- the evidence that, whatever the rumors say, K. B. Heterodyne was not the illegitimate son of Klaus Wulfenbach.

Mind you, it doesn't prove he was really the son of William Heterodyne, since I'm sure Lucrezia wouldn't have much problem finding other lovers if so she wished... But we can presume he was a genuine Heterodyne anyway.

Ah, thank you. I realized that he couldn't possibly be Klaus' son, but it didn't seem like that was what they were talking about.

[slayerx]

I'm not sure what you think is so odd about it. There were rumors about Klaus and Lucrezia (the secret blueprints even note that one of the main reasons Klaus was suspected of being the Other was because people thought it was his reaction to Lucrezia scorning him--after he sulked off for a while, of course.) Nearly everyone knew there was a love triangle there; it wasn't common knowledge that Lucrezia and Klaus were actually sleeping together, but the Secret Blueprints make it clear that when Klaus disappeared, most people thought it was his reaction to Lucrezia choosing Bill over him.

it makes sense, but where are all these rumors... i've reread the strip a number of times and i do not recall anyone else talking about the rumors of a Klaus/Lucrezia affair... the only thing i recall every being said is that people really did believe Klaus Heterodyne was the last of the family...

If that's really all there is to it, than i would have hoped that the Folgio's would have played up that angle... such as overhearing such rumors being spread, or maybe one of Theo's stories could have included such an affair; kinda like how the children bought up the rumor that Von pinn was really Lucrezia... the readers know damn well what went on, but i see little to no indication that the people thought that

[Lord Iames Osari]

Also, the attack on Castle Heterodyne wasn't Lucrezia, obviously -- but we knew this already, since as Agatha points out in one of the pages I linked to above, it doesn't really make sense for her to kill her own son, and since there just doesn't seem to be any way to make it a sane action for Lucrezia in the first place (she was winning at that point -- she had everything she wanted -- and if she wanted to kill her husband for some reason, there would have been vastly simpler and safer ways to do it than a large-scale assaulting on Castle Heterodyne while she, personally, was there. Just about anything would have been better.)

A more plausible theory for the attack is that it was someone attempting to kill Agatha as a child, either because they are from the future or because they had at least some hazy knowledge of what was to come and knew the prophecy about the female Heterodyne. But the fact that Lucrezia was pregnant again was not yet public knowledge, and whoever was responsible for the attack was acting on incomplete knowledge, so they killed wrong baby (well, there wasn't a younger baby yet, but you get the idea. The fact that Agatha's birth was impending triggered some alarms somewhere, or someone attacked from the future or whatever... but they messed it up.)

The nice thing about this theory is that it not only explains everything, but also provides a reason for the baby boy, in a narrative sense.

For the identity of the attacker, one theory is that it was Klaus from the future.


He has a motive to want to not just kill Agatha, but erase her from history entirely (thinking she's the Other, plus the prophecy about the female Heterodyne is insanely dangerous to him)
He has incomplete knowledge of that period of time (because he wasn't there); he's one of the few people who would know when/where to attack, but could easily not know the gender of the older baby or the fact that Lucrezia was pregnant with the younger one.
This would easily explain why Barry doesn't trust him, assuming Barry ever found out who was responsible.

One problem with this is that if Lucrezia knew he was behind the attack, she would know not to take him as lightly as she does when we first meet her. But this can be explained in any of a number of ways -- the easy way is that nobody knew who was responsible for the attack when it happened (Barry may only have discovered it after lengthy investigation), while another possibility is that we don't really know where/when the mental 'copy' of Lucrezia we meet comes from (so she might not actually have lived through the attack.)

But that doesn't explain why the attack on the Castle was followed immediately by the war with the Other - who, I think it has been pretty conclusively demonstrated, is Lucrezia.

[BRC]

But that doesn't explain why the attack on the Castle was followed immediately by the war with the Other - who, I think it has been pretty conclusively demonstrated, is Lucrezia.
I just want to take a moment to bow down to your avatar, it puts the gil I made for Guard Juris to shame
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/bloddyredcommie/Gilrequest-1.png

[Dorizzit]

But that doesn't explain why the attack on the Castle was followed immediately by the war with the Other - who, I think it has been pretty conclusively demonstrated, is Lucrezia.

And yet Lucrezia returned to her henchpeople (the white girls who ride giant spiders whose name I can't remember right now) injured and frantic, on the run from an opponent, presumably the other. What's going on there?

[Gez]

And yet Lucrezia returned to her henchpeople (the white girls who ride giant spiders whose name I can't remember right now)

Geisterdamen, singular Geisterdame. Ghostlady, literally.

[BRC]

Hmm, I think I may know what happened
(note This (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051230) comic is intregal to this theory)

Castle is attacked, lucrezia runs off and gives birth to agatha, then leaves the geisters. Vrin mentions a great battle, I'm thinking Bill and Barry, who get Agatha, take her from the geisters, and gives her to Punch and Judy to raise.

Now, this is where it gets freaky, into SERIOUS epilleptic tree territory
The Other does somthing horrible, after the fact Agatha builds her time machine and sends somthing back in order to try to kill lucrezia immedietally before she does the aformentioned horrible thing. Agatha messes up the dial on the time machine, sends clank (We'll say it's a clank) too far back in time to, hey the castle, Clank does somthing, causes an explosion in the castle.



OR, somthing along these lines happens. The Other attacks, hurts agatha or get's agathas amulet off or somthing. Gil get's mad, uses Agatha's time machine to send an assasin clank back, but he dosn't know how to use it right (since he didn't build it). Assasin clank causes explosion in the castle (Following it's orders to kill lucrezia, because Gil thinks he sent it, say, a few days earlier instead of years). Barry and Bill find whats left of the assasin clank, Styles CAN run in families you know. They recognize it as Klaus's work. Then they go, rescue agatha from the geisters, give her to P&J to raise, and say "Don't trust Klaus, he attacked the castle".

[stm177]

it makes sense, but where are all these rumors... i've reread the strip a number of times and i do not recall anyone else talking about the rumors of a Klaus/Lucrezia affair... the only thing i recall every being said is that people really did believe Klaus Heterodyne was the last of the family...

If that's really all there is to it, than i would have hoped that the Folgio's would have played up that angle... such as overhearing such rumors being spread, or maybe one of Theo's stories could have included such an affair; kinda like how the children bought up the rumor that Von pinn was really Lucrezia... the readers know damn well what went on, but i see little to no indication that the people thought that

Pretty sure it was to put to rest real life fan community rumors!

[Lord Iames Osari]

I just want to take a moment to bow down to your avatar, it puts the gil I made for Guard Juris to shame
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/bloddyredcommie/Gilrequest-1.png
Dr. Bath is an awesome avatarist, isn't he?

[BRC]

Dr. Bath is an awesome avatarist, isn't he?
yup. I'd thought you'd made it on account of not giving the good doctor any sig credit.

[dogmac]

My outrageous, Star Warsy, based on the fact that Gil is older than Agatha, and no one knows who his mother is, etc, etc, etc...

Gilgamesh IS Klaus Heterodyne.

You know it has been sneaking at the back of your head....

[Porthos]

My outrageous, Star Warsy, based on the fact that Gil is older than Agatha, and no one knows who his mother is, etc, etc, etc...

Gilgamesh IS Klaus Heterodyne.

You know it has been sneaking at the back of your head....

Then who is the kid on Klaus's back? (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040804) :smallsmile:

The only way your theory could work is if Klaus snuck in and swiped Klaus Heterodyne while no one noticed. :smallwink:

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Unless of course whatever attacked the castle and 'killed' wee baby Klaus Heterodyne actually kidnapped the little guy and ran off, only to run into the Baron some ungodly distance from civilization. Then, after somehow dispatching the thing/person/beasty, the Baron took the kid in as his own.

Even Klaus must have a heart somewhere in there.

[Porthos]

Unless of course whatever attacked the castle and 'killed' wee baby Klaus Heterodyne actually kidnapped the little guy and ran off, only to run into the Baron some ungodly distance from civilization. Then, after somehow dispatching the thing/person/beasty, the Baron took the kid in as his own.

Even Klaus must have a heart somewhere in there.

If we're headed in to Epileptic Tree territory, I say that Gil is the (half-) brother of Zeetha. Or at least related. Klaus' reaction at seeing a Skifander was.... interesting. And it's a thread that sooner or later is going to be tugged at. Even if we have to wait five or six volumes. :smallwink:

[Ganurath]

Unlikely, Lord Fullbladder. Your theory doesn't provide for a motive for the Skifandrians to want Gil to die. It's more likely Gil is the son of one of the major matriarchs... I'd suggest the High Priestess from the Heterodyne stories if I didn't think she was Vrin.

As for the fate of Klaus Barry Heterodyne, he died in the attack. Lucrezia was pregnant with Agatha during the attack, and managed to escape. After she gave birth to Agatha, Bill and Barry managed to track her down and found out about Lucrezia being the Other. Something happened that involved Bill staying behind and Barry getting away with Punch, Judy, and Agatha.

Seven years later, Future Construct Lucrezia comes back to punish the Geisterdamen and set them on the path to get Agatha in the chair. That's when Barry comes along, and something happens that neutralizes both Uncle Barry and Construct Lucrezia.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Eh, it's a legitiment theory. Maybe the Skifandrians attacked the castle, having some prophecy about Klaus H. that they had to fulfill, only for Klaus W. to steal from them the very means to do so.

As unlikely as it is, I'm willing to keep this theory alive until proven otherwise. Even if I don't completely agree with it. Guilty until proven innocent, and all that.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Unless of course whatever attacked the castle and 'killed' wee baby Klaus Heterodyne actually kidnapped the little guy and ran off, only to run into the Baron some ungodly distance from civilization. Then, after somehow dispatching the thing/person/beasty, the Baron took the kid in as his own.

Even Klaus must have a heart somewhere in there.

I really hope not.

Edit: I hope that Gil and Agatha aren't brother/sister, not that Klaus doesn't have a heart.

[stm177]

I really hope not.

Edit: I hope that Gil and Agatha aren't brother/sister, not that Klaus doesn't have a heart.

A brass clockwork heart would be damn cool though. Built by a Heterodyne, only Agatha will be able to repair it!

[Aquillion]

But that doesn't explain why the attack on the Castle was followed immediately by the war with the Other - who, I think it has been pretty conclusively demonstrated, is Lucrezia.Well, going by my theory... (and keeping in mind that the more 'supposing' things I hang on one another, the less likely it all gets!)

Since there's no way Lucrezia could know that Klaus was responsible for the attack (since she dismissed him initially when she came back), it could be that she assumed someone else was responsible, or even that she simply went all Othar and decided that all sparks must be punished. (Remember, the main thing the Other has done is go after sparks -- although it's hard to draw too much from that, since that's the logical thing to do if you want to take over this world.)

However, in this case I suspect that there's more we don't know... we don't even really know her overall goal, or her reasons for acting. So it's not as if there's much to base it on.


Edit: I hope that Gil and Agatha aren't brother/sister, not that Klaus doesn't have a heart.I don't think it's very likely, but it would at least provide another reason why Klaus has been so immediately and totally dismissive of the idea of them having any future together, even though such a thing could (theoretically) be useful to him and the realm if he found a way to control Agatha. His response was an immediate and forceful "That ends now," and while we've been given several reasons for that, this would certainly add to it.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I believe that there was never any such person as Klaus Barry Heterodyne: the kid was Agatha all along.

Hypothesis: Lucrezia was not the Other at the time of her marriage, but just another of Her descendants, and knew she was in line to be her ultimate-grandmother's next host body. She was on the run. And when she had a daughter, in defiance of the usual Heterodyne pattern, she decided to conceal this from the Other... maybe going so far as to have her own memories altered so that if she got brainjacked she wouldn't betray her offspring. So no one, absolutely no one but perhaps Bill and Barry, not even the Castle itself, was allowed to know the baby's true gender.

In short: Klaus Barry is a hoax. Discuss.

Sir, here is your Tinfoil Hat. You are Number 3. I am Number 2.

[Gez]

Eureka!

Remember, the main thing the Other has done is go after sparks

Of course! It all makes sense now! The Other is really The Othar!

As we know from his Twitter (http://twitter.com/Othar) story, Othar walked in some weird time-traveling-evil-clone-of-himself thing once. One of them decided that the best way to get rid of all sparks is to wage war against them all, and possibly to take control of them.


:smalltongue:

[Aquillion]

Eureka!


Of course! It all makes sense now! The Other is really The Othar!

As we know from his Twitter (http://twitter.com/Othar) story, Othar walked in some weird time-traveling-evil-clone-of-himself thing once. One of them decided that the best way to get rid of all sparks is to wage war against them all, and possibly to take control of them.


:smalltongue:This was actually one of the leading theories in many places before the actual Other was explained. It's still possible that the two are connected somehow, since we know very little of Othar's background, and similarly little about Lucrezia... Maybe the Other somehow turned him into what he is today, or whatever. Hard to say given that we know almost nothing about either of them.

Hey, when did Othar begin his heroics? Do we have any relative dates on that?

...oh. In something unrelated... I was looking back over some old pages, and I noticed that Vrin calls Agatha a "filthy changeling" here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061023). I wonder if that means anything?

[BRC]

No support for my time-traveling gil attacked the castle theory? :smallfrown:

[Oracle_Hunter]

OR, somthing along these lines happens. The Other attacks, hurts agatha or get's agathas amulet off or somthing. Gil get's mad, uses Agatha's time machine to send an assasin clank back, but he dosn't know how to use it right (since he didn't build it). Assasin clank causes explosion in the castle (Following it's orders to kill lucrezia, because Gil thinks he sent it, say, a few days earlier instead of years). Barry and Bill find whats left of the assasin clank, Styles CAN run in families you know. They recognize it as Klaus's work. Then they go, rescue agatha from the geisters, give her to P&J to raise, and say "Don't trust Klaus, he attacked the castle".

This is the superior theory, since it explains more. However, you'd think Von Mekkan would have mentioned a clank when describing the carnage of the lab (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070815).

But it's the thought that counts. Here's your hat - you can be Number 4.

[BRC]

This is the superior theory, since it explains more. However, you'd think Von Mekkan would have mentioned a clank when describing the carnage of the lab (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070815).

But it's the thought that counts. Here's your hat - you can be Number 4.
Well the Clank was obviously destroyed in the explosion.

Think about it, Clank gets time-traveled back, stabs Lucrezia's assistants, Lucrezia runs off. Clank somehow causes a big explosion. Barry looks through the rubble and says "Hmm, this looks like the work of my buddy Klaus, but why would he do this? I better not tell anybody until I investigate. There is a good chance he has nothing to do with this, and I don't want to have bad ideas about him when he comes back." So Barry gets rid of the Clank pieces and runs off with bill.

[stm177]

In the time windows, Gil seemed to be worried that Bangladesh would shoot at them. I wonder if the time window would let matter go through it.

[Aquillion]

Come to think of it, for Wednesday's comic, where the false Heterodyne promises "freedom and gold" to whoever kills Agatha... shouldn't they already be getting freedom, after she deals with the castle?

Not a very optimistic line for her to use.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

Hey, OH, who's Number 1?

She's on a tight schedule, Aquillion. Besides, it might take some time even for a real Heterodyne to fix... The Castle!.... And these are desperate folks. After all, that's getting out that much faster.

[Aquillion]

Hey, OH, who's Number 1?
You are Number Six.

[stm177]

What's behind the fifth door?? Not knives, fish, or glass?

[Oracle_Hunter]

So, today's comic is awesome, but I fear that Wednesday will cut back to the Jaegers & Gil. This is just such a good time to do it.

... not that I'm saying I don't want to see more of the Jaegers & Gil Show, but I really, really, really want to see more diabolical Heterodyne traps. I think the Castle may be one of my favorite characters now :smallbiggrin:

I mean, who didn't smile while Zola was describing the Castle (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070725)? I'm going to use that line in my upcoming Shadowrun game to describe the layout of a building.

:xykon: "Do not touch any keypad locks you see - it is a trap that will kill you. Do not plug into any datajacks - they are traps that will kill you. Do not stand in front of a closed door for more than 5 seconds - it is a trap that will kill you."

[slayerx]

Hmm, I think I may know what happened
(note This (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051230) comic is intregal to this theory)

Castle is attacked, lucrezia runs off and gives birth to agatha, then leaves the geisters.

Y'know thinking about it... one thing i think we have to recall is that that page you posted likely did not happen right after the castle was attacked... it probably happened about 8-9 months after

Everyone in mechanicsburg believes that Klaus Heterodyne was the last heir and no one was expecting anyone else; especially not a girl... however, if Lucrezia was NOTICEABLY Pregnant at the time then they might have held on to the hope that a second heir was born; cause while Klaus was dead, they knew that a second child was on the way, and as long as Lucrezia didn't die, the child would be born and free to someday return to Mechanicsburg... Von Mekkan would have certainly mentioned if he knew Lucrezia was pregnant with a second child

The fact that no one had that kind of hope tells us that no one knew Lucrezia was pregnant at the time of the attack... only two reasons they could not know is either, A) Lucrezia was in the very first stages of pregnacy and even she did not realize she was pregnant yet, or B) Bill found Lucrezia later and Agatha was conceived after the attack... Also note that according to the chronology on the GG wiki, the attack on the castle supposedly took place 19 years ago before the start of the comic and Agatha is 18...

Granted though, if all that is indeed the case; that the castle was destoryed 19 years ago and that Agatha was actually born almost a year after the attack, i would wonder why she herself does not realize that she must have been born after the attack; here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070323) agatha was speculating that she was the "son" that disappeared... could just be her knowledge of history is a bit off or ill informed and she did not know exactly when the castle was attacked and thus didn't add up the math; one thing that adds to that is that Zeetha and probably a number of others do not realize that the "son" was killed and didn't just disappear... granted, after finding out about her "older" brother she may definatly be more open to the idea

Heh, thinking about it, while Agatha may be 18, her older brother would be about 20 had he survived... while she may not have known then, she may know NOW that she was born after the attack

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hoi! What do you think Jenka's "delivering messages (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070326)" is all about?

Considering that she was supposed to go talk to the Generals (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050624), this likely means that the Generals told her to inform the Jaegers who had been kept busy in far-flung reaches of the empire (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060327) that the Heterodyne was alive and heading for Mechanicsburg.

Does this mean that the Jaeger Army is already in rebellion, and marching towards Mechanicsburg? That would be exciting!

[Ganurath]

Hoi! What do you think Jenka's "delivering messages (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070326)" is all about?

Considering that she was supposed to go talk to the Generals (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050624), this likely means that the Generals told her to inform the Jaegers who had been kept busy in far-flung reaches of the empire (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060327) that the Heterodyne was alive and heading for Mechanicsburg.

Does this mean that the Jaeger Army is already in rebellion, and marching towards Mechanicsburg? That would be exciting!Let's not forget that there were more than four (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051010) Jaegers who went to seek out the Heterodyne heir. I highly doubt that their casualties have been so high that those four are the last.

Also, let's consider what the Jaegers would do if they no longer had servitude to the Empire to coerce restraint. Spread all across Europe. Surrounded by trusting, vulnerable humans. Such as Wulfenbach soldiers.

[Porthos]

Hoi! What do you think Jenka's "delivering messages (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070326)" is all about?

Considering that she was supposed to go talk to the Generals (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050624), this likely means that the Generals told her to inform the Jaegers who had been kept busy in far-flung reaches of the empire (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060327) that the Heterodyne was alive and heading for Mechanicsburg.

Does this mean that the Jaeger Army is already in rebellion, and marching towards Mechanicsburg? That would be exciting!

Also, the Generals might have already been planning something even before Jenka tracked them down since they already knew that Agatha wasn't dead like the Baron once thought. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050214)

[Oracle_Hunter]

Also, the Generals might have already been planning something even before Jenka tracked them down since they already knew that Agatha wasn't dead like the Baron once thought. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050214)

Interesting! Man, I really hope the Jaeger Army comes to save the day... or at least break lots of stuff. :smallbiggrin:

[Aquillion]

Interesting! Man, I really hope the Jaeger Army comes to save the day... or at least break lots of stuff. :smallbiggrin:Not so simple. The Jaegergenerals are divided (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20031103) in their opinion of what to do; while they know they need a Heterodyne, they're clearly not exactly eager to risk everything on a totally untried heir. That's why one of them said that "Vell, it vould make tings really simple if--" (if Agatha married Gil, of course).

Individual Jaegers might be eager to throw themselves into an exciting battle for their old masters, regardless of the risks; but the Jagergenerals have responsibilities and have to think longer-term (Jenka's reaction to discovering Agatha was the same way -- while the Jager trio was outraged that she would suggest it, she made it clear that supporting Agatha at all costs would not necessarily be automatic.) I suspect they'll at the very least want to see some proof that Agatha is basically competent. If they go into instant rebellion, start a war for Agatha's sake, and get immediately slaughtered because Agatha is incompetent, say, they will have failed the Heterodynes.

Remember, the three Jaegers who serve Agatha already are basically the "hardcore" ones, the ones who gave up everything to search for the Heterodynes. The others, while certainly still loyal, are probably not going to be as blindly loyal, at least of Jenka and the generals are anything to go by.

[Rockphed]

"Click. Shove. Crunch."

Pure Genius.

[Lord Iames Osari]

"Click. Shove. Crunch."

Pure Girl Genius.

Fixed that for ya. :smalltongue:

[dogmac]

"It's MY sadistic mechanical monster"

Heh, and don't we all have one?

[SnowballMan]

With a sadistic mechanical monster trying to kill our favorite protagonist I can't help but thinking...

Shouldn't Von Zinzer have fallen on his back side and not on his knees?

[seedjar]

Shouldn't Von Zinzer have fallen on his back side and not on his knees?

Good eyes. Probably, but it wouldn't have framed nicely in a square panel like that. Perhaps he staggered?
~Joe

[Ryuuk]

huh, wonder were Doctor Merlot went. Took a detour perhaps?

[dogmac]

Now THAT is being stuck between a rock and hard place.

Between them they could take out pinkie girl. I doubt that will happen though.

[FoE]

Now THAT is what I call a good example of leadership skills. To hell with Agatha: all hail the false Heterodyne! :smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

Now THAT is what I call a good example of leadership skills. To hell with Agatha: all hail the false Heterodyne! :smalltongue:Agatha loved Lars while he was alive.
Lars had a lockpick and would often get in jail, so is probably a thief... or a rogue.
Therefore...
Agatha loves da Rogue.

[FoE]

@^: Maybe in some creepy fan fiction, but I don't think that kind of specious reasoning will stand up in court, Ganurath! That's libel and you know it!

Just wait until you hear from my lawyer! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2502283) :smalltongue:


Who didn't smile while Zola was describing the Castle (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070725)? I'm going to use that line in my upcoming Shadowrun game to describe the layout of a building.

Adapted for a Call of Cthulhu game:

Avoid any abandoned mansions or asylums from which horrible screaming can be heard in the dead of night. It is a trap that will drive you insane.

Do not touch any artifact or book scribed in arcane symbols or attempt to perform a ritual from an ancient tome. It is a trap that will drive you insane.

Do not open any box or door through which you can hear heavy breathing on the other side. It is a trap that will drive you insane.

Do not get attached to your character and cling to the hope that he/she will somehow make it through a Call of Cthulhu campaign. It is a trap that will drive you insane. :smalltongue:

[Oracle_Hunter]

Adapted for a Call of Cthulhu game:

Avoid any abandoned mansions or asylums from which horrible screaming can be heard in the dead of night. It is a trap that will drive you insane.

Do not touch any artifact or book scribed in arcane symbols or attempt to perform a ritual from an ancient tome. It is a trap that will drive you insane.

Do not open any box or door through which you can hear heavy breathing on the other side. It is a trap that will drive you insane.

Do not get attached to your character and cling to the hope that he/she will somehow make it through a Call of Cthulhu campaign. It is a trap that will drive you insane. :smalltongue:

Nice! You forgot rule #1 though:
Do not play a game of Call of Cthulhu. It is a trap that will drive you insane.

Re: GG
I don't know about you, but I never liked the weird straw hat and veil woman. Something about her character design just bugged me. And now she's dead :smallbiggrin:

[Aquillion]

I don't know about you, but I never liked the weird straw hat and veil woman. Something about her character design just bugged me. And now she's dead :smallbiggrin:This is Girl Genius, though. She could come back as a construct.

Wait... maybe weird straw hat and veil woman is actually Othar! From the future!

[hajo]

A pink handgun ! Scarcy :smallbiggrin:

[stm177]

A pink handgun ! Scarcy :smallbiggrin:

And it shoots out a pink bullet and a puff of pink smoke.

[Gez]

This is Girl Genius, though. She could come back as a construct.

I think she was a construct to begin with.

[Mephisto]

Why is a death ray ejecting spent brass?

[sihnfahl]

Why is a death ray ejecting spent brass
It's not a death ray. It's just a regular gun.
And ... really, I'm thinking Zola's not a spark. Just a gal with good acting ability and a ruthless demeanor.

[slayerx]

It's not a death ray. It's just a regular gun.
And ... really, I'm thinking Zola's not a spark. Just a gal with good acting ability and a ruthless demeanor.

Could be... Klaus once thought that he could make use of heterodyne body with a substitute brain... So if Klaus thought that much was possible, then it's not much a stretch to think that a normal girl who is a VERY good actress, could pull off a heterodyne act without actually having a spark.

granted though, while Zola might have known she would not have fooled everyone with her act, like the people of mechinicsburg, but knew that she probably could fool the rest of europa, there is one group she didn't put enough consideration too... Jagers... she may not realize it, but she can't fool them and when they find out that what she did to the castle and through sense of smell realize that she ain't a heterodyne... well, i don't think i need to spell out what would happen...

[BRC]

Consider This: Klaus proably knows the Jager generals have met Agatha, but he hasn't done anything about that besides making sure the Jagers remain busy elsewhere, which is proably more to keep them from following up on the new heterodyne heir rumors. If Anybody knew that Jagers could spell Heterodyness, it would likely be Klaus. Ergo, I don't think that the Jaegers ability to smell a heterodyne is well-known. I Find it likely that they simply thought the Jaegers would follow anybody they thought was a Heterodyne.

[sihnfahl]

There is one group she didn't put enough consideration too... Jagers... she may not realize it, but she can't fool them and when they find out that what she did to the castle and through sense of smell realize that she ain't a heterodyne... well, i don't think i need to spell out what would happen...
Actually, she'd have no problem with the Jaegers.
If she deposed Klaus, the Jaegers would be in the situation they were in post-Heterodyne, pre-Wulfenbach.

What was it Maxim said? "He needed us, but not as much as we needed him."

Without Wulfenbach's protection, the Jaegers are vulnerable. They can be killed; yes, it's hard to do so, but when you have a military the size Zola would control, even the Jaegers would be wiped out eventually. They would be forced to join her or perish. And you know she'd make sure that there would never be a Heterodyne heir for them to find...

[slayerx]

Without Wulfenbach's protection, the Jaegers are vulnerable. They can be killed; yes, it's hard to do so, but when you have a military the size Zola would control, even the Jaegers would be wiped out eventually. They would be forced to join her or perish. And you know she'd make sure that there would never be a Heterodyne heir for them to find...
Key word is "Eventually"... without Wulfenbach's protection, the people of Europa will be free to kill the jagers as they want, and will do so out of fear of the jaegers and hatred for old Heterodynes... However, the jaegers first and foremost priority will be to tear apart Zola limb from Limb; their Loyalty to the heterodynes would demand that they not allow a fake to rule... their own survival comes after that...

Without Klaus, the jaegers would indeed be hunted down and wiped out by europa... but we know the jaegers and they WILL make certain to tear apart Zola before they are killed off... Use their airship to drop in from a high altitude, then drop down into mechnicsburg and charge the castle (which won't be helping Zola fight)... Zola's best chance would be to strike them first before they realize their is a fake, but i somehow think that they would be faster on the attack... must never underestimate the might of an army of jaegers when they are fully enraged

Also, as for Zola's army... He potential army will be like most of Europa... however it will take time for their plans to be fulfilled and for them to try and bring Europa together like that... right now, she will only have the armies of who ever is backing her... and the Jaegers will likely attack long before the rest of the scheme's are completed...

Not to mention, If Zola doesn't realize she can't fool the jaegers, she may actually set herself up... The Jaegers will come in joy of the newfound heir, and she will welcome them... then a few good whiffs of Zola and BAM... she gets plastered... really one of the reasons why Klaus thought he might have use for a Heterodyne body with a false brain is probably because he thought the body would still smell like a heterodyne and thus no one disprove her as a heterodyne so long as he keeps them from finding out that she is spark-less... though granted, he may have been underestimating how deep that sense of smell goes

[Oracle_Hunter]

It's not a death ray. It's just a regular gun.
And ... really, I'm thinking Zola's not a spark. Just a gal with good acting ability and a ruthless demeanor.

No, it's not just a regular gun, it's a clockwork gun (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040922) (central panel for details). Who needs messy gunpowder when clean Sparky Super-Springs and/or super-pressurized steam can do it just as well?

Re: Zola

Zola is not just not a Spark, but she's a hardened criminal (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080215) (center bottom).

Tin Foil Hat Alliance (TFHA) Theory Below
Why doesn't Wilhelm recognize Zola then? First of all, Zola may have looked much scruffier back then, and depending on the passage of time, may actually have been much younger back then.

Now, why is this a likely explanation? First of all, Tiktoffen recognized Zola on sight (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070730) which, since he hasn't left the castle in awhile (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070801) means he must have met her at some point. It would also explain why she had such an intimate knowledge of the castle's defenses (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070725), while her minions did not take the warnings so seriously.

I see the scenario as this: Zola is a smart, but dangerous lady criminal. She gets arrested, and sent to The Castle, where she keeps her head down, and actually leaves. Tiktoffen, there at the time, identifies her as a good subject for Oublenmach and Stirnbeck's Plan, and so their agents pick her up shortly after she's released. In return for acting like the Heterodyne, the pair agree to pay her a large sum (which she accepts - smart criminals are like that) and they begin training her in secret.

[stm177]

On your theory:

Good theory! In fact, since Tiktoffen controls when people are released, he may have made sure she was.

My theory about Zola is that she is a half-sister of Agatha. Same mother, different fathers, and that Zola's father is non-sparky.

Zola also appears to be sane, which may or may not be an advantage when trying to pass as a Heterodyne.

[Lord Iames Osari]

On your theory:

Good theory! In fact, since Tiktoffen controls when people are released, he may have made sure she was.

My theory about Zola is that she is a half-sister of Agatha. Same mother, different fathers, and that Zola's father is non-sparky.

Zola also appears to be sane, which may or may not be an advantage when trying to pass as a Heterodyne.

On what do you base this theory?

[TigerHunter]

Without Wulfenbach's protection, the Jaegers are vulnerable. They can be killed; yes, it's hard to do so, but when you have a military the size Zola would control, even the Jaegers would be wiped out eventually. They would be forced to join her or perish. And you know she'd make sure that there would never be a Heterodyne heir for them to find...
Reading this gave me the idea of the Jagers founding a new nation in some corner of Europe.

It occurs to me that while we've seen small groups of Jagers fight in personal combat, an entire army of them fighting a battle would be too awesome for words.

Hopefully we get to see it by the end of the comic, then. :smallbiggrin:

[Aquillion]

Key word is "Eventually"... without Wulfenbach's protection, the people of Europa will be free to kill the jagers as they want, and will do so out of fear of the jaegers and hatred for old Heterodynes... However, the jaegers first and foremost priority will be to tear apart Zola limb from Limb; their Loyalty to the heterodynes would demand that they not allow a fake to rule... their own survival comes after that...People tend to overestimate the Jaegers. Yes, they're tough and nasty in personal combat... and that's it. There are fewer and fewer of them every year, and those that survive are getting more and more damaged without a Heterodyne to repair them. They're important to Agatha because they're vital potential supporters. They're not particularly important to anyone else.

They helped Klaus get a bit of legitimacy and fear, but that was 15 years ago. Most people prefer to forget that they ever existed, and if the "heterodyne" girl declares that they've all gone rogue and has them hunted down like animals, not very many people are going to protest.

And yes, they can be hunted down like animals. They're very tough bodyguards. They're not so tough against armies of airships, particularly without a spark backing them up with sparky weapons and so on.

Now, could they still be a threat to the false Heterodyne? Yes, but only because they're a faction that will support the real Heterodyne, making Agatha that much harder to kill. In the terms of world where fielding entire armies of city-smashing Clanks and airships is considered par for military might, the Jaegers are not particularly dangerous on their own... their reputation comes more from their ferocity and people's resulting fear and hatred of them than from their capabilities.

[Oracle_Hunter]

People tend to overestimate the Jaegers. Yes, they're tough and nasty in personal combat... and that's it. There are fewer and fewer of them every year, and those that survive are getting more and more damaged without a Heterodyne to repair them. They're important to Agatha because they're vital potential supporters. They're not particularly important to anyone else.

They helped Klaus get a bit of legitimacy and fear, but that was 15 years ago. Most people prefer to forget that they ever existed, and if the "heterodyne" girl declares that they've all gone rogue and has them hunted down like animals, not very many people are going to protest.

And yes, they can be hunted down like animals. They're very tough bodyguards. They're not so tough against armies of airships, particularly without a spark backing them up with sparky weapons and so on.

Now, could they still be a threat to the false Heterodyne? Yes, but only because they're a faction that will support the real Heterodyne, making Agatha that much harder to kill. In the terms of world where fielding entire armies of city-smashing Clanks and airships is considered par for military might, the Jaegers are not particularly dangerous on their own... their reputation comes more from their ferocity and people's resulting fear and hatred of them than from their capabilities.

Though all that is true, the real threat of Jaegers is not as a massive army, it is as an insurgency.

If the Jaegers rebel, they will wreck and/or seize much of the Baron's materiel and can then tie down anyone trying to claim lands that the Jaegers believe belongs to Agatha.

Plus, as we see here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071219) that holding Mechanicsburg from Jaegers may be impossible.

[BRC]

Though all that is true, the real threat of Jaegers is not as a massive army, it is as an insurgency.

If the Jaegers rebel, they will wreck and/or seize much of the Baron's materiel and can then tie down anyone trying to claim lands that the Jaegers believe belongs to Agatha.

Plus, as we see here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071219) that holding Mechanicsburg from Jaegers may be impossible.
That's true, considering most of hte space between cities is uninhabited wasteland the Jagers would be a considerable force. Think about it, they eat bugs, they are deadly in close-quarters combat, and can track by smell. AND, this is an area where Giant Spider clanks apparentally arn't noticed, if the jager's split up into small groups they could easily slip towrds mechanisburg.

[slayerx]

People tend to overestimate the Jaegers. Yes, they're tough and nasty in personal combat... and that's it. There are fewer and fewer of them every year, and those that survive are getting more and more damaged without a Heterodyne to repair them. They're important to Agatha because they're vital potential supporters. They're not particularly important to anyone else.

They helped Klaus get a bit of legitimacy and fear, but that was 15 years ago. Most people prefer to forget that they ever existed, and if the "heterodyne" girl declares that they've all gone rogue and has them hunted down like animals, not very many people are going to protest.

And yes, they can be hunted down like animals. They're very tough bodyguards. They're not so tough against armies of airships, particularly without a spark backing them up with sparky weapons and so on.

Thing is, the Jaegers will be quick to move and destroy Zola... Even without Zola giving the order, people WOULD hunt the jeagers because they are feared and hated... however how quickly this can be done will be in serious question; it takes time to organize an army and airships and so forth... and right now, Zola only has her backers to help her with military might, it will still be a long time before the rest of europe is in her control... the Jeagers won't just sit there, they will attack mechanicsburg, kill Zola and THEN gradually get hunted down

This is why Klaus took pains to try and make sure the jaegers do not know about Agatha... if they did they would rebel and become her personal army... Even if he managed to kill Agatha, the last thing he would want is for the jeagers to know he did it... The jaegers CAN be wiped out, but it will come at serious cost. there is a damn good reason why they have been the personal army of the heterodyne for many generations

oh and as for repairing the jeagars... well, considering the lack of injured jeagers, and what jeagers may got through even off (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20031107) the battlefield... I wouldn't be so sure they are not being repaired... afterall, while jeagers may only ALLOW a heterodyne to work on them, doesn't exactly mean Klaus can't FORCE repairs... also they might have swallowed their pride a bit to allow being worked on by others; just as they swallowed their pride to work for the baron to survive

[stm177]

How long do you think Wilhelm (the light pink haired convict) will stick around, and will she do a heel-face turn? I kinda like her, but she is a mook. I don't believe she is super-powerful or smart, but she might make a good minion for Agatha. Agatha does need to restock, especially after losing her circus cronies. :smallsmile:

[slayerx]

How long do you think Wilhelm (the light pink haired convict) will stick around, and will she do a heel-face turn? I kinda like her, but she is a mook. I don't believe she is super-powerful or smart, but she might make a good minion for Agatha. Agatha does need to restock, especially after losing her circus cronies. :smallsmile:
I wouldn't call it a heel face turn...
i think a heal face turn is generally when a character goes from evil to good; switching sides out of a serious change in character, pulling a 180

In Wilhelm's case, she hasn't really shown herself to be really evil or a hard core supporter of Zola... She's she's there with the convicts chasing agatha, but that doesn't really make her one of the badguys as she could just be going with the flow; hopping on the "help zola kill the castle so we can all get out" bandwagon, something even a non-convict in the castle would jump on... Needing to kill actual heterodyne heirs might have not been in the job description; she wasn't exactly excited (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080328) about the "kill the heterodyne" order... really, Wilhelm could switch to Agatha's side without ay real change in character, thus not a real heal face turn

a heal face turn would be someone like Merlot or the professor in the castle switching to agatha's side... i guess Moloch might be a heal face turn... he did hate Agatha quite a bit back on castle wulfenbach and now is her grumpy little minion; even if he doesn't know it yet... i think Willhelm will become an Agatha minion

speaking of Merlot... where has he been... i mean shouldn't he have been at the head of the pack? knows a short cut and plans to cut agatha off maybe?

[Rutee]

Is the impostor even a Spark? Has she done Spark-Speak on camera? I didn't notice it.

[John Campbell]

I've a hypothesis that Sanaa Wilhelm (the pink-haired chick) is related to Aaronev Wilhelm Sturmvoraus (the late Prince of Sturmhalten).

This is based on little more than the coincidence of what's probably a pretty common name and the fact that, contrary to what you might expect from a mook, the current arc is named after her.

[slayerx]

I've a hypothesis that Sanaa Wilhelm (the pink-haired chick) is related to Aaronev Wilhelm Sturmvoraus (the late Prince of Sturmhalten).

This is based on little more than the coincidence of what's probably a pretty common name and the fact that, contrary to what you might expect from a mook, the current arc is named after her.

don't forget, Wilhelm Diamant...
(http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071022)Sounds like just a common name... Granted though, her's is a sur-name i think, while the other two seem like given names

and i don't think the current arc is named "wilhelm"... i think the foglios have just been a bit lazy in updating the quick lick tab thing at the bottom... Wilhelm's arc likely ended when we came back to Gil and the jagers (possibly sooner for the re-introduction for Moloch); and then again when we came back to the castle (though Gil and the jagers might have been broken into atleast two parts)... the arcs from off the tab always tend to be a few pages long and the tab hasn't changed in 22 pages...

the current arc is probably something named after Zola finding out about Agatha, or agatha and Moloch getting chased down...

granted, the fact that wilhelm got an arc named after her, we know that she will have a certain amount of importace; i'm going with Heterodyne Minion

[Gez]

i think the foglios have just been a bit lazy in updating the quick lick tab thing at the bottom...
Especially true for the Buck Godot one. It's stuck at the introduction to Gallimaufry chapter 1, we're now deep in chapter 3.

[Oracle_Hunter]

How long do you think Wilhelm (the light pink haired convict) will stick around, and will she do a heel-face turn? I kinda like her, but she is a mook. I don't believe she is super-powerful or smart, but she might make a good minion for Agatha. Agatha does need to restock, especially after losing her circus cronies. :smallsmile:

Wilhelm is clearly already on Agatha's side. First she plays nice with Agatha (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080213), and secondly Agatha now has Moloch (a source of UST (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UST?from=Main.UnresolvedSexualTension) for Wilhelm) as a Minion. Zola never had a chance at holding onto Wilhelm's support.

No, a more interesting question is when Tiktoffen comes down to Agatha's side. Why am I so sure that Tiktoffen is going to side with Agatha?
First of all, Tiktoffen has an ambiguous (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070801) relationship (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071221) with the Powers That Be. Is he a Double Agent of Wulfenbach, secretly spying on the Knights of Jove? Or is he a Knight of Jove, and only pretends to work for Klaus? Personally, I think he may be an opportunist - he works for Klaus because it gives him the safest position in the Castle, and he works for the Knights because it may be unhealthy not to.

So that leaves him with room to shift. Now, why would he go for Agatha? He seemed shocked (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070803) when Zola told him she was going to kill the castle, and previously he seemed to really (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070727) enjoy (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070730) his work on the Castle. I think that after being in the Castle for so long he has become obsessed with actually figuring out how it works. Should he see that Agatha wants to both repair the Castle and knows how to keep it from killing his workers, he'll flip at an instant.

[Porthos]

Construct!Gil!1! (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080407) :smalleek:

Let the Unbridled Theorizing Commence!!! :smallamused:

Neeeeever mind. :smallredface:

That's what I get for not studying the picture closely enuf.:smallredface:

[Elhana]

I think that's Gil's necklace. He has the ring he gave Agatha on a chain...you can see it on this page. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060215

I don't think he actually is a construct.

However...I will be studying this picture closely. Oh yes.

This picture makes me VERY happy.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Okay, I admit the scar line about his neck (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php) is disturbing, but I do not think he is constructified. Doing a straight resurrection is hard and usually fails (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070209) so I doubt that even the famed Mama Gkika (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071219) is so good that she could convert Gil into a construct's body without the risk of losing him.

TFHA Theory - Mama Gkika's technique
But... considering the advanced state of vat-regeneration (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060222) Mama Gikika might have used something similar. Or even creepier, she might have just popped his head onto a ready-cloned body. After all, she is supposed to be very fast.

TFHA Theory - Gil has always been a Construct
Why, that scar might even be old. After all, Klaus himself appears to have been stitched together from spare parts (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/Baron_Klaus_Wulfenbach#Personal_History) and a Jaeger has said (perhaps in jest) that the Baron's successor may have been build from whole cloth (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021216). What about "Baby Gil (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040804)?" Could have been the original successor, who was later broken down for spare parts. The Skifander don't know this, and so they're probably still seeking out the original half-Skifander baby for death.

[Porthos]

I think that's Gil's necklace. He has the ring he gave Agatha on a chain...you can see it on this page. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060215

I don't think he actually is a construct.

However...I will be studying this picture closely. Oh yes.

This picture makes me VERY happy.

Errr.... Yes....

Errr.

Look a tub of Hot Cheese!!!!

*Porthos runs away in the other direction*
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Well, I feel silly. :smallbiggrin: Sorry bout all that.

[Elhana]

Hah, I've seen a lot of people think that is a scar. I thought it was a scar too until it was pointed out to me that he had been wearing a necklace...and that a couple of days ago I had been speculating that he had the necklace underneath his shirt.

Now it is possible it is a scar...but I don't think he had been hurt that his head needed to be put on another body. And he didn't have the scar earlier.

And like Oracle Hunter said, it is possible he is a construct, but I don't think that if he was one he was recently made into one. In other words, if he was a construct, he had been on for a long time.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hah, I've seen a lot of people think that is a scar. I thought it was a scar too until it was pointed out to me that he had been wearing a necklace...and that a couple of days ago I had been speculating that he had the necklace underneath his shirt.

Now it is possible it is a scar...but I don't think he had been hurt that his head needed to be put on another body. And he didn't have the scar earlier.

And like Oracle Hunter said, it is possible he is a construct, but I don't think that if he was one he was recently made into one. In other words, if he was a construct, he had been on for a long time.

Good job with the Archive Trawl! I totally missed that necklace, since it doesn't usually come up.

That said, I'm waiting to see what kind of Soylent Green (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SoylentGreen) Mama Gkika used on Gil to patch him up so quickly.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Phil says - and here's a little shot of Gil for the ladies. Aw right! :smallbiggrin:

For the rest of us, a montage of Sexy (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20030512) Waking Up In Bed (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070219) Moments (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080407).

[dogmac]

COR!!!


er.... forgot what I was going to say there..

Oh yes, so who do you think is speaking off screen? I reckon it is the senchenal bloke.

[Humbug]

Ugh, to be honest, the anatomy on Gil looks awful! I don't find that a turn on at all; I can't stop thinking how ugly his body looks. Foglio has always had problems with anatomy, but he mostly gets away with it by their wearing clothes. Naked however, the flaws are very appearant.

[stm177]

So, is it the Mamma character speaking off-scene?

[FoE]

Did you hear that? I think it's the sound of Gil's fangirls across the continent squealing in delight. :smalltongue:

Cue the obvious "So ... did you, umm, undress me?" jokes.


Oh yes, so who do you think is speaking off screen? I reckon it is the seneschenal bloke.

No, it's clearly Mamma Gkika, (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071219) whoever that may be. I would guess she doesn't look quite human, though, from the way Gil asks if he's actually "safe."

You know, I thought she was going to turn him into a Jager to fix him up. :smalltongue:

[GGfan]

I would guess she doesn't look quite human, though, from the way Gil asks if he's actually "safe."

You know, I thought she was going to turn him into a Jager to fix him up. :smalltongue:

Actually, I think it's more likely the instinctive reaction of someone who has always had enemies (being the son of a powerful man), waking up in a strange room, naked and unarmed. From his point of view, it's quite possible he's being held for ransom, hostage, and/or nasty experimentation/punishment directed towards harming his powerful parent.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Ugh, to be honest, the anatomy on Gil looks awful! I don't find that a turn on at all; I can't stop thinking how ugly his body looks. Foglio has always had problems with anatomy, but he mostly gets away with it by their wearing clothes. Naked however, the flaws are very appearant.

:smallconfused:

I don't profess to be an artist (or to even have an artistic eye) but aside from his particularly... voluptuous... manner of depicting female characters, what kind of anatomical flaws do you see in his art?

I'm only asking because I don't see it, and I'd like to be educated - because knowing is half the battle :smallbiggrin:

[slayerx]

:smallconfused:

I don't profess to be an artist (or to even have an artistic eye) but aside from his particularly... voluptuous... manner of depicting female characters, what kind of anatomical flaws do you see in his art?

I'm only asking because I don't see it, and I'd like to be educated - because knowing is half the battle :smallbiggrin:

Well, i'm not sure about the upper body, but i do think that the lower half of the body is way off... His right thigh seems to be rather wide; though that's questionable... the main thing that's off is that if we were to look at his anatomy underneath the bed covers, both of his thighs would would be rather long, even more so in the right leg. kinda hard to tell what it is exactly, but from what it looks like, it does not look like his legs would be attached to his body if we removed those covers

As for the rest of his art, i tend not to care... Personally my style of art takes anatomy with a grain of salt since i like to exaggerate body parts and such... so i won't pretend to know anatomy very well off hand; i know it somewhat, but i'm no expert

[John Campbell]

The art, anatomically speaking, has gotten considerably better over the run of GG. In a lot of the early strips the hands tend to look like inflated surgical gloves, he never quite got hips down, and the less said about the feet and ankles, the better. By this point, most of the cartooniness in the anatomy has gone away, except for the heads and the perfectly spherical antigravity boobs, and he can draw good hands and sometimes even feet. (Feet are really hard... hands are bad enough, but feet have almost as much complexity, and then they deform in strange ways under load.) I'm not sure why this particular page would've triggered complaints about the art, except that the simple, cartoony head on what's actually a quite well rendered and realistically proportioned body does look kind of odd.

Also, I was, uh, really not expecting the fancy Victorian waistcoats to be hiding that kind of build.

[BRC]

Personally, I have a theory to explain the considerable *ahem* "Assets* of the female european population. It comes with several assumptions

Assumption one: There have been sparks Crazy and Powerful enough to develop some way to perform minor genetic modification (Like, say, establishing certain genes as dominant) In most of the population of Europe. They would then be Crazy enough to use it.
Assumption two: due to the way they are discussed, it appears there are very few female sparks (Gil says "Ive Heard of female sparks, but..." Ergo, Most sparks are male, and most historical sparks were male.

Ergo, If there was a spark crazy and powerful enough to do the aformentioned minor genetic tampering, They would infact be male. Now They wouldn't neccissarily be an evil spark, if there spreading this geneticness to all of europe, there more intrested in seeing if it works. So they say "Hmm, what feature of humanity can I make more prominant that nobody will mind..."

[Tirian]

I think that he did a great job with Gil and even if I didn't think so, the chorus of squeeing fangirls in the LJ communities would be enough to override me. He didn't do any definition of the pecs and it takes a little bit of staring to be convinced that his right leg can be naturally attached to his torso, but this is a well-done melange of Phil's iconic style and the actual human form. I don't see any webcomic artists putting more of an effort into realistic anatomy, even those that publish much less frequently than GG.

And he's the goddamned Phil Foglio, an award-winning artist of implausibly boobed women for over thirty years now. There is a difference between a bad artist and a great artist whose work doesn't appeal to you, and the jury has long since decided that he is not the former.

[Rockphed]

And he's the goddamned Phil Foglio, an award-winning artist of implausibly boobed women for over thirty years now. There is a difference between a bad artist and a great artist whose work doesn't appeal to you, and the jury has long since decided that he is not the former.

Not that I think Phil fits in this category, but there is also the Mediocre artist who has hoards of brainwashed fans. I personally throw Crichton into that category, and my jury is still out on Clancy.

[Humbug]

I'm not saying Foglio a bad artist, I'm amazed at the amount of detail he draws and he does some fine structures, it's just his anatomy that's really lacking. So Foglio won an award, so what? So did Liefeld, and that hardly proves he's an amazing artist, though I have to say Foglio's work is not eye-searing, unlike Liefeld.

How bad is Gil's anatomy? Well, for one thing, his head is tiny compared to his torso, and Foglio doesn't know how the muscle structure of the human body works, he just drew some vague lines here and there to pass it off as muscle. Anyone can string two arms and legs together on a body, but you have to understand how the structure works to pull it off as a convincing human body.

I'm anal about human anatomy, so don't mind me, if you think Foglio's art is great, that's fine.

[Ganurath]

Beefcake is seldom anatomically correct. Same with cheesecake. Especially cheesecake.

[Gez]

Personally, I have a theory to explain the considerable *ahem* "Assets* of the female european population. It comes with several assumptions

Me too, and it's two words plus a genitive: artist's style.

Proof: Buck Godot, What's New?, MythAdventures, and (I bet) xXxenophile.

Quod Erat Demonstratum.

[VariaVespasa]

I'm not saying Foglio a bad artist, I'm amazed at the amount of detail he draws and he does some fine structures, it's just his anatomy that's really lacking. So Foglio won an award, so what? So did Liefeld, and that hardly proves he's an amazing artist, though I have to say Foglio's work is not eye-searing, unlike Liefeld.

How bad is Gil's anatomy? Well, for one thing, his head is tiny compared to his torso, and Foglio doesn't know how the muscle structure of the human body works, he just drew some vague lines here and there to pass it off as muscle. Anyone can string two arms and legs together on a body, but you have to understand how the structure works to pull it off as a convincing human body.

I'm anal about human anatomy, so don't mind me, if you think Foglio's art is great, that's fine.


Art evokes. It doesnt merely mundanely depict. Different styles evoke in different ways. Are not the impressionist works art? I think maybe youre missing the point of art.

[Johnny Blade]

Art evokes. It doesnt merely mundanely depict. Different styles evoke in different ways. Are not the impressionist works art? I think maybe youre missing the point of art.
As much as I hate to disagree with someone quoting The Jabberwocky in her (I guess) signature, this is a comic, and no matter how abstract/stylized/cartoony it is supposed to be, the purpose of comic art is not really to broaden the horizon of modern art. :smallwink:
Also, I can't think of any reason behind screwing up anatomy and drawing the head too small in this case.
[Um...this sentence sounds a bit too critical. Actually, I only recognized that the head was too small when I looked at the update for the first time. The second time, when I actively searched for artistic flaws, things like the muscular structure and the legs (which I didn't even look at before) came to my attention, too.]

[Porthos]

:elan: Ha! I knew that was Zeetha!
:roy: But, Porthos, you didn't actually post that-
:elan: <interrupts> HA!

Mostly because of this strip, (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071212) and not much else. Though I am looking forward to seeing Mamma Gkika as well. :smallsmile:

Also, it's fairly obvious that Zeetha has seen something she likes. :smalltongue: But we all know that she won't do anything coz Sam Agatha would kill her if she touched Frodo Gil.* :smallamused:


* Hmmmm. The Very Secret Diaries of Girl Genius. Hmmmmm. Might work. :smallyuk:

[Sampi]

...this is a comic, and no matter how abstract/stylized/cartoony it is supposed to be, the purpose of comic art is not really to broaden the horizon of modern art. :smallwink:


I think many, including Scott McCloud (http://www.scottmccloud.com/), would disagree with that statement. However, I agree that it's probably not Foglio's purpose.

[Rockphed]

As much as I hate to disagree with someone quoting The Jabberwocky in her (I guess) signature, this is a comic, and no matter how abstract/stylized/cartoony it is supposed to be, the purpose of comic art is not really to broaden the horizon of modern art. :smallwink:

You do have a point. The purpose of Comic art is to be worth a thousand words. If that picture happens to only be worth 900, is it that big a deal?

[Ganurath]

...Has anyone else noticed that the signet on Zeetha's head always matches her facial expression?

Skifander has telepathic nanites!

[Lord Iames Osari]

...Has anyone else noticed that the signet on Zeetha's head always matches her facial expression?

Skifander has telepathic nanites!
I have. :smallbiggrin:

[Porthos]

...Has anyone else noticed that the signet on Zeetha's head always matches her facial expression?

That's one of Phil's running gags. He's done that with a couple of his characters across his various strips/illustrations-for-books.

[stm177]

I didn't expect it to be Zeetha, mostly out of hope for a nice Mamma Gkika reveal.

[battleburn]

Didn't Gil's father warn him about Zeetha?
I can't really remember and I couldn't find the comic.
Does anyone know/have a link?

[Lord Iames Osari]

Indeed, I did warn my son about the Skifandrian traveling with Agatha Heterodyne. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070716)

[Lord Xaedien]

I am sure someone has suggested this before, but it seems to be that Zeetha's culture is all women. It seems likely to me that Gil is a product of the Baron and one of said Skifander ladies *ahem* getting it on. Since they are ALL female, they might kill male children (or some such nonsense)... and Gil is for some reason viewed as a problem for them. At least that would explain the Baron's smile during this exchange in the previously linked comic.

Just sayin'

[Lord Iames Osari]

I am sure someone has suggested this before, but it seems to be that Zeetha's culture is all women. It seems likely to me that Gil is a product of the Baron and one of said Skifander ladies *ahem* getting it on. Since they are ALL female, they might kill male children (or some such nonsense)... and Gil is for some reason viewed as a problem for them. At least that would explain the Baron's smile during this exchange in the previously linked comic.

Just sayin'

I can't imagine them being an ALL-female society, ala the Amazons of myth. They have to sustain their population somehow, after all. I can certainly imagine a very matriarchal society, though.

[BRC]

I THOUGHT it might be Zeetha, but I didn't say anything.


I think the Skifandari are definetally a matriarchial society, I wouldn't say they are All-Female. Maybe All their royalty are female, using males only for reproduction and killing any royal son while keeping royal daughters.

[Gez]

Since they are ALL female, they might kill male children (or some such nonsense)...

The problem being that, in such a culture, then unless the women are capable of parthenogenesis or of mitosis, they will still need to find men somewhere.

So, these men will come from neighboring cultures. And no matter what ninja tricks or super-high-tech devices you imagine, the Skifandrian couldn't be kept secret if they need to capture a great number of men regularly. Because:
- If they keep them prisoners, the disappearances will be noticed. And some of them will escape anyway.
- If they kill them "after use" likewise.
- But if they let them go back to their own land, it's not a secret at all!

But Skifander is a lost kingdom and nobody except members of the mightiest Spark families (Agatha Heterodyne and Klaus Wulfenbach) have heard of them.

So Skifander has to be self-sufficient. Which means that they don't have a silly Amazon-like cultural taboo about having men around. They've got their own guys. They may be second-class citizens in a violently matriarchal culture, I don't know; but they can't be all slaughtered at birth -- it just doesn't make sense.

Oh yeah, and also, Zeetha doesn't seem to be too much into women anyway: her boyfriend was Yeti, the big hairy circus strongman from Master Payne's Circus of Adventures. Exclusively sapphic relationships is constant of man-hating Amazon cultures, so I don't think Zeetha's is one of them.

I don't know what exactly happened with Gil's mother way back then, but we're talking about Phil Foglio, not about Mookie, so it's going to make more sense than just "death to boys! rah raah!"

[Humbug]

Art evokes. It doesnt merely mundanely depict. Different styles evoke in different ways. Are not the impressionist works art? I think maybe youre missing the point of art.
You know, I really find this kind of argument annoying; that's just his style. Style and anatomy are two different things. Yes, you can stylize the human body, but you still have to understand how the structure works. If you look at Justice League, ala Bruce Timm style, the characters are simplified, but the structure is there.

If that wasn't the case, I might as well say Mookie is an amazing artist. His art doesn't suck, that's just his style. :smallmad:

[Lord Xaedien]

T\
I don't know what exactly happened with Gil's mother way back then, but we're talking about Phil Foglio, not about Mookie, so it's going to make more sense than just "death to boys! rah raah!"

just a hypothesis... The male child thing made sense to me because I cant think of any other good reason they would want Gil dead, since it is apparent they wanted him dead since near birth...

[Targan]

The problem being that, in such a culture, then unless the women are capable of parthenogenesis or of mitosis, they will still need to find men somewhere.

So, these men will come from neighboring cultures. And no matter what ninja tricks or super-high-tech devices you imagine, the Skifandrian couldn't be kept secret if they need to capture a great number of men regularly.
They wouldn't need to capture a great number of men. Just a few with a lot of stamina. I for one would be prepared to take on the job. Big sacrifice I know, but I'm that kind of guy :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Iames Osari]

You assume they'd be willing to share, Targan, of which there is no guarantee.

[Targan]

I suspect that if the women of Skifander do snuff most of the men in their country on a regular basis they probably select the ones they kill based on a lack of performance and/or lack of certain*ahem* skills. I remain confident that I would kept on as an amorous asset. Heh heh. :smallcool:

[slayerx]

I thought it might be Zeetha... mainly because i expected Mama to be a jager and that voice wasn't speaking like a jager... So either mama wasn't a jager, mama had human assistants, or it was Zeetha who i've been expecting to pop up since they were traveling though the sneaky gate.

As for the question of skifander society... one thing i would point out is that Zeetha proudly goes about calling herself, "the daughter of Chump"... frankly, if that had such a serious amazonian society, i think she would be talking about her mother instead and think little of her father (unless chump is a female name :smallconfused: )... there's also the fact that Zeetha doesn't seem to hate men, the idea of a woman being in love with a man, or seriously look down on men in anyway; all things i would expect from a society that goes out of it's way to keep men to minimal involvement... not to mention they have a goddess of fertility which is all about the "cha cha cha"... So ya, i don't think they are an amazonian society... maybe one where women have more dominance, but not an amazonian society

[Meltemi]

just a hypothesis... The male child thing made sense to me because I cant think of any other good reason they would want Gil dead, since it is apparent they wanted him dead since near birth...

Well, it could have to do with Gil's mother in particular rather than some overarching cultural imperative. If she was the head of their religion, leader of the nation, or in some role that would find significant trouble in a suddenly-appearing child (social taboo for the role against bearing a child, succession issues, et cetera), then there may be some reason for the problem to be swept under a rug.

Or it could just be Klaus's fault. Gil seemed to leap to that almost immediately. ^_^

[BRC]

I like my theory best. The Skifandari kill any sons the royal family (or high ranking nobility) has (Remember, the name means "The Warrior Queens Hidden Jewel" , so they are definetally matriarchial). I could think of a few reasons why they might do this, but thats all irrelevant. Anyway, Klaus vanishes, ends up in Skifander where he ends up fathering a child off some royalty/nobility. The baby is a boy, and so is schedualed for execution, Klaus asks for a few minutes with his son, which they grant. Klaus runs off back to europe....

Or maybe it has somthing to do with Gil being a spark.


But I highly doubt it's because Gil's mother was a priestes who wasn't allowed to have children, Skifander's patron goddess is, among other things, a Fertility goddess.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Re: Destroy all Men
I doubt Skifander is a man-killing society, since they seem to have very fun Holy Days of Ashtara (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050523) and unless Skifander is from a lesbian-sploitation movie, there probably should be some men involved... somewhere.

That said, there are tons of fun ways for "Lost Cities" to remain lost with pseudo-Amazonian principles.
1) Being a warlike people that is also known for stealth (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050204), launch lightning raids to capture men, and escape. Nobody can track you... and survive, so you remain "lost"

2) Keep men in captivity as "breeding stock" which is subservient and uneducated. No male child may be kept from this pool, under penalty of death.

Re: Zeetha's Reaction
Well, I am surprised that Zeetha is the first person we see, but I'm sure Mama Gkika is around somewhere. Now, the reason why Zeetha is particularly interested is that Gil has hinted about some further knowledge of Skifander. Perhaps she plans to pump him for information, or perhaps this particular knowledge triggered a memory about what kind of males that Skifander (possibly only royal Skifander) would want to kill.

Chances are this memory is particularly salacious :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Iames Osari]

Re: Zeetha's Reaction
Well, I am surprised that Zeetha is the first person we see, but I'm sure Mama Gkika is around somewhere. Now, the reason why Zeetha is particularly interested is that Gil has hinted about some further knowledge of Skifander. Perhaps she plans to pump him for information, or perhaps this particular knowledge triggered a memory about what kind of males that Skifander (possibly only royal Skifander) would want to kill.
((Emphasis added))
He has? I don't recall that. I know that Klaus spoke Skifandrian to her, but I can't remember Gil doing anything to indicate any knowledge of Skifander.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

tiny nitpick: shouldn't it have 2 L the last word? as Really?

[GGfan]

((Emphasis added))
He has? I don't recall that. I know that Klaus spoke Skifandrian to her, but I can't remember Gil doing anything to indicate any knowledge of Skifander.

Ok.

First of all, we don't really know that much about Zeetha before she left her homeland- or rather, was sent out. We also don't know that much about Skifander in general. For all we know, green hair is genetic to only royalty... or the royal guard.

Second, Gil is the son of Klaus. Zeetha knows this. She also knows that Klaus knows about Skifander- well enough to know the language. Gil has just given away the fact that his father (who knows Skifandrian, and who was the only one to recognize Zeetha for what she was without her having to tell him) has warned him about certain people. Namely, people who look like her- who could only have come from Skifander. This is naturally intriguing for her, since she can no longer remember the original intent of her mission. Or find her way home for that matter.

I foresee a lengthy interrogation session coming up, but whether it'll be between her and Gil, or her and Klaus, I leave up to the Foglios.

[Oracle_Hunter]

((Emphasis added))
He has? I don't recall that. I know that Klaus spoke Skifandrian to her, but I can't remember Gil doing anything to indicate any knowledge of Skifander.

Well, he just said (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080409) that "someone who looks like you might be out to kill me," and since Zeetha is wearing the same clothes (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041101) she wore in Skifander and nobody has seen natural green hair (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070418) before, it stands to reason that if he thinks someone that looks like her has a reason to kill him, then he must either know someone who knows about Skifander, or know something himself.

Additionally - he is a 3/4 naked man lying vulnerable in bed. Even though she's keeping him safe for Agatha (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071212), she may decide to check whether or not he's worthy of her :smallwink:

[slayerx]

That said, there are tons of fun ways for "Lost Cities" to remain lost with pseudo-Amazonian principles.
1) Being a warlike people that is also known for stealth (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050204), launch lightning raids to capture men, and escape. Nobody can track you... and survive, so you remain "lost"

2) Keep men in captivity as "breeding stock" which is subservient and uneducated. No male child may be kept from this pool, under penalty of death.

I would doubt either of those being the case... With the way Zeetha treats males it seems fairly good to say that she did not grow up in a society that would do those kinds of things, as her upbringing would probably make her treat men very well beneath her. We haven't seen her treat men poorly and hasn't shown anything to thinking of women being high above men in a relationship...

Considering names like "Chump" and Zeeta's taste in men like "yeti" i would not be surprised to think that men in their society tend to be a lot about Brawn, and maybe not so much on brains... but despite that, overall we have a society that does still favor women, just not one that puts down men

[kagato23]

just a hypothesis... The male child thing made sense to me because I cant think of any other good reason they would want Gil dead, since it is apparent they wanted him dead since near birth...

Not really. Remember, Zeetha mentions that they venerate a goddess of fertility "our festivals are the fun ones." A culture that celebrates fertility, birth and sex would suggest having sex with something capable of producing a child. Ergo, theres skifandarian males. Enough so for proper orgys, at least.

Everybody is assuming that gil was set to be killed when he was "kept alive". I'm not so sure of that. We do know it's a lost city, so i'm more inclined to believe that it was more over his leaving then his existence.

Hypothetical example:

Gil became sick with some disease. One unheard of in Skifander but common in the outside world. The Baron knew where to get medication for Gil easily, but it couldn't be acquired in Skifander. He had to leave. People said "uh-unh, you ain't leaving." Baron left anyway, probably in a very violent way. He assumes that Zeetha has been sent to kill him, and Gil as well as a point of honor. (Probably some sort of: "Anybody who leaves unauthorized dies." sort of deal.)

Mind, i'm pulling this out of my rear. But it can't be a "kill all males" thing. If that was the case, how would the Baron have been permitted to stay there so long in the first place?

[Lord Xaedien]

alright, I am choosing to surrender. I had forgotten about the fertility holidays, Zeetha's relationships, etc... plus my idea doesnt fit in with the Foglio's...

I hope we can learn a little bit more about both Zeetha and Gil in the next couple comics, because they are some of my favorite characters. T

[PePe QuiCoSE]

i think that kagato23 is quite reasonable in his speculation.
"You can enter skifander, but you can't leave". That's a pretty good way of keeping it hidden from the rest of the world. Still it's still to explain why the Baron think she was sent to Gil and not both.

[Tirian]

Well, he just said (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080409) that "someone who looks like you might be out to kill me," and since Zeetha is wearing the same clothes (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041101) she wore in Skifander and nobody has seen natural green hair (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070418) before, it stands to reason that if he thinks someone that looks like her has a reason to kill him, then he must either know someone who knows about Skifander, or know something himself.

You're making it too difficult. Klaus warned Gil about Zeetha here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070716).

Since everyone is throwing their two cents into the pot, I'dd add mine. Skifandaer is a matriarchal society ("the Warrior Queen's Hidden Jewel"), but not man-hating. Mostly, it is remote. Lucrezia made a deal with the Warrior Queen to have Klaus exiled there (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041210) with the understanding that he would be made comfortable for the remainder of his life. But, after a few years and having sired two children by some member of the royal family, he managed to escape, to Lucrezia's considerable surprise and annoyance (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060208). He took Gil with him because he needed an heir and he was less important than Klaus' daughter was, though sufficiently expendable to the royal family when it suited them to get rid of her (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041101).

I don't think that anyone has suggested that a Skifander agent wouldn't be out to kill both of them. But I imagine that Klaus is pretty comfortable with his own ability to defend himself, and somehow I suspect that he keeps Bang around because she's got a score to settle with green-haired sword chicks (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041103).

[Ganurath]

You're making it too difficult. Klaus warned Gil about Zeetha here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070716).But Zeetha doesn't know that.
Since everyone is throwing their two cents into the pot, I'dd add mine. Skifandaer is a matriarchal society ("the Warrior Queen's Hidden Jewel"), but not man-hating. Mostly, it is remote. Lucrezia made a deal with the Warrior Queen to have Klaus exiled there (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041210) with the understanding that he would be made comfortable for the remainder of his life. But, after a few years and having sired two children by some member of the royal family, he managed to escape, to Lucrezia's considerable surprise and annoyance (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060208). He took Gil with him because he needed an heir and he was less important than Klaus' daughter was, though sufficiently expendable to the royal family when it suited them to get rid of her (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20041101).I like that theory up until Zeetha is Gil's sister.

[Tirian]

I like that theory up until Zeetha is Gil's sister.

"Zeetha, daughter of Chump." I have a very easy time believing that Chump was Klaus' tribal name.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I like that theory up until Zeetha is Gil's sister.

I like the theory more when it said that Zeetha is Gil's sister (and more importantly, the Baron's daughter!). Here's your hat Tirian - you're Number 7.

I'm still waiting for someone to post how this theory was already aired a thousand Internet-years ago... 'cause it hangs together waaay too well. :smallbiggrin:

[Tirian]

Yay, a hat!


I'm still waiting for someone to post how this theory was already aired a thousand Internet-years ago... 'cause it hangs together waaay too well. :smallbiggrin:

There has long been speculation that Zeetha's father is Klaus. It would probably be harder to find someone on the Internets who doubts it.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone has suggested before that there is a connection between "Klaus disappears for a number of years and turns out to have been in a remote woman-dominated society" and "Lucrezia, a self-styled goddess, needed Klaus to disappear so she could marry Bill". I haven't seen the hypothesis posted anywhere before, but perhaps that's because it's too obvious once you've considered it. :smallcool:

[Gez]

But Zeetha doesn't know that.

Zeetha has met up to now, only two people who know about Skifander:
1. Agatha Heterodyne (who she knows is in love with Gilgamesh Wulfenbach)
2. Baron Klaus Wulfenbach (who she knows is Gilgamesh Wulfenbach's father because she's not completely dumb).

Gil says that someone warned him about someone looking like her. Her look is quite peculiar (green hair) and so it means that Gil was warned about a Skifandrian.

Now, who could say things about Skifandrians? Only people who know what Skifandrians are. Who could it be? Either Agatha or Klaus.

Now, Zeetha has accompanied Agatha for a long time and know that she hasn't had the opportunity to chat with Gil for quite some time. Remains Klaus. Klaus who talked to Zeetha in skifandrian (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061129). Klaus who is Gil's father.

Zeetha doesn't know that? Yes she does. She knows about the warning. She knows what it means. And she knows who is the only one who could have said that.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

On the plus for Klaus having a direct relation with Zeetha, he yells "YOU" when he sees her. Leaving aside the possibility that all skifander's look exactly alike (except obvious traces, as hair color) for Klaus it is surprising not only that she is a skifander, but that she is 'that' skifander.

To get deeper into this subject, let's learn some skifander (skifandarian?)

- Djorok'ku skifandias von?
- Ah Ah Zur baken skiff??
- Kar! Mor baken skiff. Braka na zanta - glurk.

I guess it goes something like

- Are you a skifander?
- Ah, you speak/know skiff
- Yes! I speak/know skiff. ¿Braka na zanta- ? (wonder what was he saying there).

[Lord Iames Osari]

For an adjectival form, I'd go with "Skifandrian", by analogy with Alexander => Alexandrian.

[Gez]

For an adjectival form, I'd go with "Skifandrian", by analogy with Alexander => Alexandrian.

I'm sure that it's even used somewhere in the story.

[kagato23]

"Zeetha, daughter of Chump." I have a very easy time believing that Chump was Klaus' tribal name.

Remebmer that it's a Matriarchy though, and thus who's lineage would be given more weight. I suspect Chump is Zeetha's mother.

[Porthos]

Hooray!!! Death to the Can't Spit It Out (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanNotSpitItOut) Trope!!

Die, Trope. Die!!!!! http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/BuckGodot/Icons/hammer.gif

Now Zeetha knows that Gil is in love with Agatha and that he's worried about her being The Other. All we need to happen now is for Zeetha to quickly recap the plot to Gil before she is interrupted by someone and forgets to tell Gil this critical information. Otherwise Hilarity Might Ensue. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HilarityEnsues) :smallwink:

[Oracle_Hunter]

Can I get an "awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww" from the congregation?

Lovesick Gil is just so adorable (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TastesLikeDiabetes) :smalltongue:

[Tirian]

Remebmer that it's a Matriarchy though, and thus who's lineage would be given more weight. I suspect Chump is Zeetha's mother.

I agree that it is a troublesome factor. But it seems equally troublesome that "Chump" doesn't sound like it would come from the same linguistic base as "Zeetha" and the rest of Skiff that we've heard, so it would be more likely to be an outsider's name than Zeetha's mother. So I'm not uncomfortable with the possibility.

There are those who have suggested that Zeetha is describing herself as "daughter of Chump" in Europe in the hopes that someone will recognize the name and reunite her with him or at least his family. Or perhaps she is made to bear her father's name to reinforce that she is not a legitimate heir to the throne of Skifander. Or or or or or.

[Gez]

It could also be possible that the queen has many daughters, from many different fathers (main deity is one of fertility, you know), so the little princesses are identified by who is their father; their mother is obvious given their status.

[stm177]

The daughter of Chump appears to originate in the radio plays, so it's probably intended to sound funny. (As in strange and humorous)

Still no Mamma Gkika yet! I'm getting desperate for the character intro!

[Tirian]

The daughter of Chump appears to originate in the radio plays, so it's probably intended to sound funny. (As in strange and humorous)

That is a good point. I don't recall if she has ever called herself that in the "present" storyline; by the time the far future of the radio shows comes around she presumably has already resolved her Skifander storyline and would no longer be trying to find a missing father.

[slayerx]

That is a good point. I don't recall if she has ever called herself that in the "present" storyline; by the time the far future of the radio shows comes around she presumably has already resolved her Skifander storyline and would no longer be trying to find a missing father.

Well, that's also the name she's given on the cast page which usually tells us the characters as they are in the present time of the comic (or whenever the last time the cast page was updated)...

Also, i don't think the radio shows are canon and are the future of girl genius... I think the radio shows are meant to be nothing more than exaggerated/fictional stories (not future events) about the adventures of Agatha, much like many of the tales of the heterodyne boys, that the foglio's like to broadcast to the rest of europe... the stories have little to no truth to them; Hence why agatha has been trying to kill them everytime they put on a show =p

[Oracle_Hunter]

New page!

Good ol' Zeetha, never too busy deciding someone's fate to not take a moment and sneak a peak at his bottom :smallbiggrin:

[tomaO2]

What's the significance of the ring around his neck? I don't recall how he got it from Agatha and the archives are WAAAAAAAYYY to thick for me to find in an reasonable amount of time.

[slayerx]

What's the significance of the ring around his neck? I don't recall how he got it from Agatha and the archives are WAAAAAAAYYY to thick for me to find in an reasonable amount of time.
That was the ring he gave (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040705) agatha after they killed all those Slaver wasps back on the castle; his marriage "proposal"... Gil got it back (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050121) when he found out Agatha "died"; back when the circus faked Agatha's death they put the ring on the corpse

[Oracle_Hunter]

New comic!

Man, Gil is looking positively Klausian in that last panel.

Anyone know what the "Sturmvoraus" is referring to? My German is a bit rusty, but I think "voraus" is "to send away" or "go away" - Sturm is obviously Storm.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Wow. This is really straightforward communication here, considering they're nominally opposed and Agatha=Other is the sort of misunderstanding most authors would drag out inevitably. Kudos to the Foglios on realizing when to tie up a source of conflict, unlike most webcomic writers.

Plus, we still have Klaus misinformed, and he's more than dangerous enough on his own.

[chionophile]

Wow. Zeetha is very astute. I guess it's not that big of a logical leap, though. And yes, Gil, having the Other held back by only a locket is indeed a very bad thing.

I'm glad that someone is aware that Agatha has been literally possessed by the Other. Identity confusion pisses me off.

[slayerx]

Anyone know what the "Sturmvoraus" is referring to? My German is a bit rusty, but I think "voraus" is "to send away" or "go away" - Sturm is obviously Storm.

Strumvoraus is the family name of Travek and his father...
Gil is just cursing the name of the family that ruled that town and was likely the ones who are responsible for doing this to her (though it was actually Lucrezia's servents that did it)... the fact that a device of the other was in that town confirms Klaus's thoughts about Aaronev working for the other... even after all this time


Wow. Zeetha is very astute. I guess it's not that big of a logical leap, though.
Well, Agatha probably did fill in Zeetha on most of the details of what happened to her... So Zeetha knows what Agatha knows... though Zeetha was the first to figure out the locket is what stopped lucrezia

[dogmac]

Yes, I don't know how much I would trust a locket either.

You are right, Gil. This is bad.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Yay! Go Zeetha! :smallbiggrin:

[Ganurath]

Yes, I don't know how much I would trust a locket either.

You are right, Gil. This is bad.Because the clockwork locket, not being made of Thran and/or Necron metal, will eventually wear down and break?

[chionophile]

Well, Agatha probably did fill in Zeetha on most of the details of what happened to her... So Zeetha knows what Agatha knows... though Zeetha was the first to figure out the locket is what stopped lucrezia

Oh yeah, I guess Agatha did know about the whole situation. I don't know why I thought she didn't know she was possessed by the Other.


Because the clockwork locket, not being made of Thran and/or Necron metal, will eventually wear down and break?

Actually, the thing lasted for, what, 15 years (how old is Agatha again?) before Moloch tried to take it apart. I'd be more worried about it getting smashed or something, than it wearing down. She's not exactly sitting around at home watching TV, y'know?

[Ganurath]

Actually, the thing lasted for, what, 15 years (how old is Agatha again?) before Moloch tried to take it apart. I'd be more worried about it getting smashed or something, than it wearing down. She's not exactly sitting around at home watching TV, y'know?Eleven years, since that's how long ago Uncle Barry disappeared and she got it right before he left. And it did get smashed, by Moloch. Klaus repaired it, but who can say how successfully? For all we know, it's a Heterodyne relic as delicate as a Van Rijn.

[slayerx]

Because the clockwork locket, not being made of Thran and/or Necron metal, will eventually wear down and break?

those are true to; partially the breaking... but i think more along the lines that, for one thing, the locket can always come off... someone could rip it off to steal it, or it might come off in a fight, or hell, one of the other's servents might figure it out and take it off when agatha's asleep... Second, Agatha says that she thinks she overcame the effects of the locket; true this was due to her not wearing it and allowing her mind to grow stronger, but just the fact she overcame it, means that it is entirely possible for Lucrezia to overcome it aswell... really, to think that a device is 100% fail safe would be the pinnacle of foolishness... and considering this is the fate of all of europa were talking about, we can't really except anything less than 100% fail safe

[Porthos]

Hooray! Continued Death to the Can't Spit it Out (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanNotSpitItOut) Trope! http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a35/BuckGodot/Icons/hammer.gif *

Besides, doing it this way allows for all sorts of interesting complications. :smallcool:

Anyway, time for my Epileptic Tree Idea:

We already know that at some point in the future, Gil runs around dressed as a White Lady. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040126) The $64,000 question is: Why? Well, here's my theory. Gil is going to realize very quickly that if a machine can download The Other into Agatha, it might just be able to download The Other into someone else. Someone that they have no idea who it might be.

And that would be very bad.

Now why would he leap to such a conclusion? He's a Spark, that's why. Sparks leap to all sorts of strange conclusions.

But even if he doesn't leap to that conclusion, he's going to realize that having The Other just one chain snap away from reappearing is NOT a Good Thing. And if Gil can't figure out how to get The Other out of Agatha, he's in a pickle. He doesn't want to kill Agatha (and he might not even be in the position to do it), and he doesn't want to risk having The Other break out of her little mental prison.

So the only thing possible is try to figure out how to get The Other out of Agatha's head. And to do that, he's going to need more info on how The Other's devices work. And the only way to do that is to infiltrate The Other's organization. This presumes, of course, that Agatha doesn't figure way out on her own to rid herself of The Other (say via a strange machine in Castle Heterodyne). Of course, even if they do rid Agatha of The Other, the idea of sneaking into The Other's camp still has many benefits, not the least of which is finding the Sealed Evil In A Can (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SealedEvilInACan) the machine that did this in the first place and destroying it.

Therefore what he is going to propose, at some point, is that Agatha fake being The Other so they can infiltrate her little group and find out what is really going on. Either he does this to rid Agatha of The Other, or to make sure no other copies of The Other can or do exist, and/or to wipe out this menace once and for all.

Meanwhile, Klaus, should he find out any of this, will go ape-BLOOP (especially since he's currently a Revenant) and probably try anything and everything to stop Gil. After all, the last thing Klaus wants is for Gil to put himself right in The Other's clutches. So this might just mean that that Agatha and Gil could be on the run from Klaus' agents. And all the while they need to make sure they don't blow their cover inside Otherville.

Which would make for some interesting drama. :smallamused:

Now this probably won't happen. But at least it seems to fit with what we already know.

* NOTE: I like this trope just fine in certain shows/projects (like say, Lost or BSG) But this comic? Not so much. :smalltongue:

[Gez]

Oh yeah, I guess Agatha did know about the whole situation. I don't know why I thought she didn't know she was possessed by the Other.

Hullo? Everything that happened in Sturmhalten (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061030)? The fight to keep control of her body (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060428)? How exhausted she was because (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070216) neither side ever let her body sleep (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060403)? The message she prepared saying she was controlled by the Other (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060602)? Wanting the help of the Baron (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060524)? Her "I'm back!" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061208)

And then Zeetha connected the dots (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070221).

[Porthos]

then Zeetha connected the dots (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070221).

And if you check the very next update (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070223), Agatha fills Zeetha in on just what the locket did to her while she was growing up.

The only thing that I can tell that Zeetha didn't know that she either figured out on her own, or was told off screen, is that Agatha had lost the locket at some point.

[Gez]

We already know that at some point in the future, Gil runs around dressed as a White Lady. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040126)

And this is a known fact (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070228). (Fourth panel, bottom right.)

[chionophile]

Hullo? Everything that happened in Sturmhalten (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061030)? The fight to keep control of her body (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060428)? How exhausted she was because (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070216) neither side ever let her body sleep (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060403)? The message she prepared saying she was controlled by the Other (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060602)? Wanting the help of the Baron (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20060524)? Her "I'm back!" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061208)

And then Zeetha connected the dots (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070221).

Yeah, yeah, I get that now. I went back and reread that portion and I realized what a dunce I was being :smallredface: . Thanks for rubbing it in :smallcool: .

Edit: Hey, I'm an orc now. That means I am spending entirely too much time on this site.

[FoE]

Not White Lady ... Geisterdamen.

[Talyn]

Well, he's a guy, so geisterehrenman, I guess...