Hearthstone 15: The Doctor has Left the Building.

[Zevox]

Welcome to fifteenth GitP thread for Hearthstone. For anyone who doesn't know, Hearthstone is a video card game from Blizzard, based on the Warcraft series. The game is free to play and available here (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/), so if you're interested, give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose but your free time. :smallwink:

For new players, something to be aware of is that there are a number of hidden "quests" you can complete which will give you free gold, dust, or even a pack. A complete list can be found here (http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/1088-list-of-quests-and-daily-quests-in-hearthstone). Be aware that not quite all of those are ones you'll be able to complete quickly though.

And here is a list of Playgrounders currently in the game, for both NA and EU servers:

GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (US)
aethernoxethernox#1948
AgentPaperAgentPaper#1193
AmberVaelAmberVael#1225
AnarionAnarion55#1254
AntonokAntonok#1704
AnxeGoCorral#1879
BaelotBaelot#1149
CogwheelOmegaNixon#1123
banthesunbanthesun#1782
Dancing OwlbearOwlbear#1586
Destro YersulDestroYersul#1239
D_LordVolrock#1367
Duck999Duck999#1349
DuosDoctorDapper#1491
Firedaemon33Firedaemon#1486
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
GAADGAAD#1126
GaelbertSamHouston#1563
GamerlordGamerlord#1612
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GanorenasGanorenas#1457
GomipileGlodd#1784
Gray MageGrayMage#1723
GrytormGrytorm#1777
HamsteTheorules#1234
Haruspex_PariahHaruspexPari#1254
HatevahHatevah#1405
HircineIllusiveMan#1616
jindra34JinRia #1770
JohnjimcoJohnJimco#1482
KarohtKaroht#1505
KishGrazzt#1417
KradeKrade#1266
LegoShrimplegoshrimp#1722
Landis963Landis963#1789
Loreweaver15Loreweaver#1199
Lunix VandalLunixVandal#1952
MacGiollaMacGiolla#1982
MathMageMathMage#1797
MCerberusMCerberus#1734
mistformsquirrlmistformsqrl#1430
moosabiMoossabi#1325
Mystic MuseNSFJunkblade#1400
Neon KnightVultureCrook#1434
Neriractorneriractor#1483
NerociteJoeKage#1852
nhbdyNohbdy#1927
OlinserOlinser#1393
OnionbreathGiantSquid#1845
otakuryogaScootaloo#1471
Pokonicpokonic#1166
PsyBombPsyBomb#1878
QwertystopQwertystop#1897
r2d2gor2d2go#1262
RosstinRosstin#1609
SamBurkeSamBurke#1486
ShishnarfneGruschenka#1375
SholosVeebeebee#1383
Stabbity Rabbit StabityRabit#1362
TemoteiTemotei#1507
Tesla_pastateslapasta#1973
Thanatos 51-50Thanatos5150#1407
TheGlyphstoneGlyphstone#1419
The Hellbugthehellbug#1216
The_JackalTheJackal#1499
TogarthAsparag#1680
Trouble BrewingHairyPoppins#1949
UserCloneUserClone #1545
VolatarVolatar#1750
YanaRaltis#1807
ZeroNumerousZeroNumerous#1913
ZevoxZevox#1522
ZmekJadeReaver #1783


GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (EU)
AdumbrationAdumbration#2419
Aran ThuleAranThule#2780
AvarisAvaris#2378
Avilan the GreyBeardedgeek#2355
boomwolfBoomWolf#1169
DadaScrattlebear#2863
D-naras Dinos #2811
Epinephrine_SynSilverSeraph #2931
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
Frog DragonVasemmasti#2618
FyreByrdFyreByrd#2962
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GolemsVoiceCrazyCat#29897
HewhosaysfishHeWhoSezFish#2503
Hippie_VikingHippieViking#2866
Infernally ClayWinny#1904
JormengandTrianna#2529
LionheartLionheart#2440
Mr.SilverSilverSmiles#2462
MurmaiderMurmaider#2273
PoscaMazura#2636
RaddishRaddish#2730
ScionoftheVoidJayPsi#2775
ShinyRocksMoodyTuskarr#2790
SianSian#2690
SilfirSilfir#2863
SlyGuyMcFlySlGuyMcFly#2562
TokayTokay#2518
VolthawkVolthawk#1214
WeimannWeimann#2716
WraithIllusionist#2224
XianderXiander#2814

[MacGiolla]

I named a thread. Do I get an Internet cookie?

[moossabi]

I named a thread. Do I get an Internet cookie?

Sure. Please ignore the excess salt.

[Zevox]

Well, this is weird. I just played a couple of Brawl games, and uh, it doesn't seem like my opponents understand the Brawl. One guy was playing with a fair amount of actual spells in his deck (including ones that only really belong in constructed Freeze Mage, like Frost Nova), and no minions that benefited from him playing spells, while the other basically seemed to have an Arena deck - decent cards with the occasional good or poor card, but no sign of the things that are obviously good for this Brawl aside from a single Mana Wyrm. Despite both being Mages, I didn't see a single Flamewaker. Nor Violet Teacher, Summoning Stone, Trog, etc.

[Togath]

Well, this is weird. I just played a couple of Brawl games, and uh, it doesn't seem like my opponents understand the Brawl. One guy was playing with a fair amount of actual spells in his deck (including ones that only really belong in constructed Freeze Mage, like Frost Nova), and no minions that benefited from him playing spells, while the other basically seemed to have an Arena deck - decent cards with the occasional good or poor card, but no sign of the things that are obviously good for this Brawl aside from a single Mana Wyrm. Despite both being Mages, I didn't see a single Flamewaker. Nor Violet Teacher, Summoning Stone, Trog, etc.

I've seen a few people do this as well... As well as a few running a ton of minion cost reducers, without realizing it reduces the power of their spells too >_<

Also, are there any mana costs of minions that always give only a single spell? I know 7 mana only has four, and 10 mana only has anyfin and pyroblast.

[Gandariel]

9 famously only has Tree of Life. Which makes Ysera the best finisher ever.
(And Anub'arak too, but everyone disenchanted that :P)

[Legoshrimp]

9 famously only has Tree of Life. Which makes Ysera the best finisher ever.
(And Anub'arak too, but everyone disenchanted that :P)

kripp was playing a hilarious tree of life + bolf + soulpriest combo deck. With stuff to help survive until then.

I think it took me 2-3 hours to get level 20, but I started with a lvl 12-15 character :smalltongue: Unfortunately it was a hunter so I didn't really get the ability to do dungeons much since 20+ minutes queues.
My play time was 7 hours 40 minutes. Most of it was probably before though, so I have no idea how efficient that was.

[Togath]

9 famously only has Tree of Life. Which makes Ysera the best finisher ever.
(And Anub'arak too, but everyone disenchanted that :P)

Kraken too... Nowhere near as good as Alex though in this situation(I did once manage to reset myself from 1 life to 30, but I still lost due to being unable to keep up ^_^;).

[PsyBomb]

8 only has Lay On Hands and Twisting Nether. I went 5-1 with ramp Druid aiming for a pair of Ironbark Protectors, Rag, and Gruul.

Zevox: I am on the US servers. PsyBomb#1878

[Xiander]

Well, this is weird. I just played a couple of Brawl games, and uh, it doesn't seem like my opponents understand the Brawl. One guy was playing with a fair amount of actual spells in his deck (including ones that only really belong in constructed Freeze Mage, like Frost Nova), and no minions that benefited from him playing spells, while the other basically seemed to have an Arena deck - decent cards with the occasional good or poor card, but no sign of the things that are obviously good for this Brawl aside from a single Mana Wyrm. Despite both being Mages, I didn't see a single Flamewaker. Nor Violet Teacher, Summoning Stone, Trog, etc.

I am doing something similar to this on the american server. I don't have a lot of cards there yet, having started up recently mostly to see how tought starting out with out usin money is.
I don't use many spell synergy cards, because i simply do not have them.

[moossabi]

Quickie: my username on battle.net is Moossabi #1325, I've been meaning to post this for a while but keep on forgetting...

[Zevox]

Quickie: my username on battle.net is Moossabi #1325, I've been meaning to post this for a while but keep on forgetting...
You're lucky you've already been on my friends list, so I actually know which server you're on. :smalltongue:

[Nerocite]

New priest Legendary revealed on stream:
http://puu.sh/nNwPy/bd53f53c78.png

Basically that one mini brawl in a card.

[Zevox]

New priest Legendary revealed on stream:
http://puu.sh/nNwPy/bd53f53c78.png

Basically that one mini brawl in a card.
I'm assuming it copies minions on the board, since if it were your hand or deck it would've specified. In which case, meh, it's a 5/5 for 6 that summons maybe 1-2 1/1s on average? Unless it happens to get somebody with an "at the end of your turn" or aura effect, like Thaurissan or Ragnaros, that's not that good. Still, I kind of wonder how many it would have to create to be good value just on the stats alone. 3 is the high-end, since 3 minions already on the board plus this guy fills the board, and that's probably pretty good regardless of the presence of useful effects, but is 1 or 2 good enough without such effects? That'll be what determines whether this guy sees play or not, I think.

Edit: ooo, wait, Deathrattles! They weren't good in the Brawl this card is reminiscent of because what popped out of the deathrattle was always a 1/1 anyway, but I don't see any reason that would happen here. ...although a lot of the good deatrattles are going away anyway. Creeper, Dark Cultist, Shredder, Belcher - we'll have what, Harvest Golem and Sylvanas left? And Sylvanas can't be played the same turn as this guy barring a Thaurissan discount on both. Hm, well, it's something else to help him, in any event, even if not as strong as it sounded at first.

[The Glyphstone]

Get Thaurissan down for a turn, then play him and end up with 2 Thaurissans?

[PsyBomb]

Rags, Thaurissan, the C'thun buff guy, any good death rattle, possibly Velen if you also have a taunt to copy...

Combo piece.

[Xiander]

Rags, Thaurissan, the C'thun buff guy, any good death rattle, possibly Velen if you also have a taunt to copy...

Combo piece.

All of these seem like good combo pieces, but most of them are by necessity two turn combinations, which makes them a lot easier for your opponent to counter. It still might work, but it seems like there is limited potential, with the current meta.

[Qwertystop]

You're missing a big possibility - that's the same phrasing as on Echoing Ooze. If the stat buffs override the reset to 1/1, that makes it a lot better.

[PsyBomb]

All of these seem like good combo pieces, but most of them are by necessity two turn combinations, which makes them a lot easier for your opponent to counter. It still might work, but it seems like there is limited potential, with the current meta.

... any really good Inspiration effects, actually? I can see him copying that guy that bombs both players life

[The Glyphstone]

... any really good Inspiration effects, actually? I can see him copying that guy that bombs both players life

Now I'm curious; if you trigger a Paletress and she spawns a Paletress, will the clone also activate its Inspire effect that turn?

[PsyBomb]

Now I'm curious; if you trigger a Paletress and she spawns a Paletress, will the clone also activate its Inspire effect that turn?

As of a week ago, no (saw it come up in a game). This might have changed with the patch

[Zevox]

... any really good Inspiration effects, actually? I can see him copying that guy that bombs both players life
Spawn of Shadows? He's not a good Inspire effect. Priest can't really do aggro, and that's the only kind of deck that would want him.

If the post-Standard meta changes such that Inspire effects are better, though, good ones like Silver Hand Regent, Confessor Paletress, Nexxus-Champion Saraad, or Kodorider might be good to get copied by the Herald, that's true. That'd require things to slow down a fair bit though, and I'm not so sure they will, with the departure of important Control cards like Zombie Chow, Antique Healbot, and Sludge Belcher.

[Gandariel]

Inspire effect are not really worth using with that card, because yo gain value from it you need to extract value from the cards you're copying.

Inspire cards get value every time you hero power, yes, but this forces you to play the minion as an 8-mana play, which is restrictive.

The main use of this card will be copying stuff like Deathrattles (and the occasional "end of turn" effect like Thaurissan or Ragnaros)

But yeah, mostly deathrattles.
Stuff with powerful every-turn effects are often understatted, and are high priority targets: you can't really count on them surviving (and if they do survive, you've probably won already)

Deathrattles, on the other hand, are often a LOW priority target:
They, too, are understatted, but your opponent doesn't really want to remove them ASAP.
(If your opponent kills your Haunted Creeper on his turn, you can immediately use the spiders and get a good trade. Instead, if he forces you to trade the Creeper on your turn, he'll have easy pickings on the 1/1s.)
So, you can probably count on them being alive for a while


Anyways, color me interested!!! Card looks pretty, well designed and powerful enough.

[Zevox]

Inspire effect are not really worth using with that card, because yo gain value from it you need to extract value from the cards you're copying.

Inspire cards get value every time you hero power, yes, but this forces you to play the minion as an 8-mana play, which is restrictive.

The main use of this card will be copying stuff like Deathrattles (and the occasional "end of turn" effect like Thaurissan or Ragnaros)

But yeah, mostly deathrattles.
Stuff with powerful every-turn effects are often understatted, and are high priority targets: you can't really count on them surviving (and if they do survive, you've probably won already)

Deathrattles, on the other hand, are often a LOW priority target:
They, too, are understatted, but your opponent doesn't really want to remove them ASAP.
(If your opponent kills your Haunted Creeper on his turn, you can immediately use the spiders and get a good trade. Instead, if he forces you to trade the Creeper on your turn, he'll have easy pickings on the 1/1s.)
So, you can probably count on them being alive for a while


Anyways, color me interested!!! Card looks pretty, well designed and powerful enough.
A key point though being that most good deathrattles will be out of Standard. Looking over a list, the ones that will be left are:

Neutral: Leper Gnome, Bloodmage Thalnos, Huge Toad, Loot Hoarder, Harvest Golem, Abomination, Anubisath Sentinel, Cairne Bloodhoof, Sylvanas Windrunner, The Beast, The Skeleton Knight, Wobbling Runts, Chillmaw, Majordomo Executus.
Priest: None class-specific.

And there's no point listing the ones from other classes, since even with Museum Curator Priest can't get ahold of those, and any other way for them to get them will definitely be too unreliable.

Yeah, there actually aren't a lot of good cards on that list, and fewer still that Priest would actually want to run. It really does amount to Harvest Golem and Sylvanas for the most part. Chillmaw, but you wouldn't want to copy him in most circumstances, because that guarantees your Herlad and anything else it spawned just dies to the two Chillmaw deathrattles. Huge Toad and Loot Hoarder are good too, but for Priest? I'm not so sure. Maybe if the meta changes enough Cairne could become good again, but that's pretty iffy. And Leper Gnome's good of course, but for aggro, definitely not Priest.

[PsyBomb]

Alright, I'm starting to assemble a budget Standard-ready Warlock Zoo deck. I'll have notes for "cards I'd like for when I have spare dust" and "Card categories I'm looking at for replacements" at the end. Currently about 560 dust from finishing this list (and about half of that is commons I haven't gotten yet), so I'm pretty sure I'll have it together in time.

2x Flame Imp
2x Abusive Sergeant
2x Voidwalker
2x Power Overwhelming
2x Soul Fire
2x Mortal Coil

2x Dire Wolf Alpha
2x Dark Peddler
2x Ironbeak Owl
2x Wrathguard
2x Knife Juggler

2x Imp Gang Boss
1x Void Terror

2x Defender of Argus
1x Hellfire

2x Doomguard

Looking at trying to get a Gormok for the deck, and might put Brann Bronzebeard in once I acquire one (since that'll make seven cards with battlecries worth duplicating).

While Mortal Coil is an awesome card, the fact that it can't target face means I'm hoping for a 1-2 cost warlock burn spell this set (lost Darkbomb). Also not a fan of Doomguard despite its power, just because I have REALLY crappy luck on discards when I'm going for game and Soul Fire is already there. Was using Floating Watcher, but again I'm losing them in the rotation.

The deck has a really serious lack of "sticky" other than the Imp Gang Boss, so I'm also looking for possibilities there.

[Zevox]

Alright, I'm starting to assemble a budget Standard-ready Warlock Zoo deck. I'll have notes for "cards I'd like for when I have spare dust" and "Card categories I'm looking at for replacements" at the end. Currently about 560 dust from finishing this list (and about half of that is commons I haven't gotten yet), so I'm pretty sure I'll have it together in time.

2x Flame Imp
2x Abusive Sergeant
2x Voidwalker
2x Power Overwhelming
2x Soul Fire
2x Mortal Coil

2x Dire Wolf Alpha
2x Dark Peddler
2x Ironbeak Owl
2x Wrathguard
2x Knife Juggler

2x Imp Gang Boss
1x Void Terror

2x Defender of Argus
1x Hellfire

2x Doomguard

Looking at trying to get a Gormok for the deck, and might put Brann Bronzebeard in once I acquire one (since that'll make seven cards with battlecries worth duplicating).

While Mortal Coil is an awesome card, the fact that it can't target face means I'm hoping for a 1-2 cost warlock burn spell this set (lost Darkbomb). Also not a fan of Doomguard despite its power, just because I have REALLY crappy luck on discards when I'm going for game and Soul Fire is already there. Was using Floating Watcher, but again I'm losing them in the rotation.

The deck has a really serious lack of "sticky" other than the Imp Gang Boss, so I'm also looking for possibilities there.
Well, to start off with, I'll note that personally, I think trying to craft "Standard-ready" decks is kind of a waste of time. When Standard hits more changes are occurring than just rotating out Naxxramas and GvG - some classic cards are getting rebalanced as well (to date we only have it implied that some Druid cards will be among them, most likely Force of Nature and/or Savage Roar, but it's supposed to be a fair few more than just that), and of course the new set is launching. Predicting what will actually work in Standard is currently impossible because we just don't know enough about what it will look like because of that. Besides which, right now you'll just be handicapping yourself against all the decks that aren't forcing themselves not to use Naxx and GvG cards.

That said, things that stick out to me:

- That is a lot of 1-mana cards, even for a Zoo. More than a third of your deck, in fact, which I suspect is probably too many. I'd consider dropping at least the Coils or Soulfires, depending on whether you prefer a more aggressive or mid-range/control approach, and possibly dropping to just one of the Abusives, Voidwalkers, or Power Overwhelmings.
- Hellfire makes no sense in Zoo, since it destroys your own board as well. I have on very rare occasion seen people seriously argue for it, but only in specific metas where they were expecting to face a lot of other Zoos. I'd drop that.
- Two Ironbeak Owls is probably more than you need unless you're looking to be a very aggressive variation of the deck.
- Gormok the Impaler may well not be a good idea. He's seen little play since he came out, and all of the cards that significantly helped him have any period of viability, such as Imp-losion and Haunted Creeper, are not going to be available in Standard.

Suggested cards to put in:
- Knife Juggler has been a staple of Zoo decks pretty much forever. He is a prime candidate to be one of the classic cards getting nerfed, but he's still great for now nonetheless.
- For "sticky" minions you could use, classic examples that were in older Zoo decks include Harvest Golem and Scarlet Crusader.
- Way back in the day another Zoo staple was Dark Iron Dwarf as a 4-drop version of Abusive Sergeant. Might be a good idea given your only 4 here is Defender of Argus.
- If you do want to go for a super-aggressive version of the deck, Leper Gnome is a must-have, a staple 1-drop of all true aggro decks for as long as the game has existed.

[Gandariel]

Alright, I'm starting to assemble a budget Standard-ready Warlock Zoo deck. I'll have notes for "cards I'd like for when I have spare dust" and "Card categories I'm looking at for replacements" at the end. Currently about 560 dust from finishing this list (and about half of that is commons I haven't gotten yet), so I'm pretty sure I'll have it together in time.

2x Flame Imp
2x Abusive Sergeant
2x Voidwalker
2x Power Overwhelming
2x Soul Fire
2x Mortal Coil

2x Dire Wolf Alpha
2x Dark Peddler
2x Ironbeak Owl
2x Wrathguard
2x Knife Juggler

2x Imp Gang Boss
1x Void Terror

2x Defender of Argus
1x Hellfire

2x Doomguard

Looking at trying to get a Gormok for the deck, and might put Brann Bronzebeard in once I acquire one (since that'll make seven cards with battlecries worth duplicating).

While Mortal Coil is an awesome card, the fact that it can't target face means I'm hoping for a 1-2 cost warlock burn spell this set (lost Darkbomb). Also not a fan of Doomguard despite its power, just because I have REALLY crappy luck on discards when I'm going for game and Soul Fire is already there. Was using Floating Watcher, but again I'm losing them in the rotation.

The deck has a really serious lack of "sticky" other than the Imp Gang Boss, so I'm also looking for possibilities there.

Very nice list! Couple suggestions.

+2 Dark Iron Dwarf. Solid, cheap, good.
Remove Void Terror and Hellfire for it. (Void terror now only really combos with Power Overwhelming, and hellfire is iffy)

-2 Mortal coil. Too slow for you, and you don't really need the draw.
+2 Shattered sun Cleric. Another strong staple for the deck.

Keep the doomguards. They are extremely important and will win you most of your games :)

Gormok isn't important (also not so good without Creepers and ImpLosion)

[The Glyphstone]

If you have one, I'd drop a Doomguard and add Leeroy, or Arcane Golem. 2x Doomguard is a lot of card-loss, and can kill each other from the hand; Leeroy+Doomguard would put the same charging output, and played in order will both hit the field.

[Mando Knight]

Sea Giants are sometimes being used instead of Doomguards in Zoo decks, though they're a bit dependent on having a large number of minions out, which will be more difficult without Nerubian Egg or Haunted Creeper.

I've been considering basically turning it into a C'Thunlock, with the cultists as part of your early curve, but we'll have to see what other cards we get with WOG.

[Zevox]

Sea Giants are sometimes being used instead of Doomguards in Zoo decks, though they're a bit dependent on having a large number of minions out, which will be more difficult without Nerubian Egg or Haunted Creeper.

I've been considering basically turning it into a C'Thunlock, with the cultists as part of your early curve, but we'll have to see what other cards we get with WOG.
C'Thun Warlock would definitely not be a Zoo deck. Zoo wants to end the game before turn 10 anyway, except sometimes for slower variations of Demon Zoo.

And he did say it's a budget deck, so recommending an epic like Sea Giant is probably not the best idea for that, even if the loss of Creeper, Imp-losion, etc weren't happening.

[Gandariel]

I fear Giants would be too slow without the aforementioned Creeper,ImpLosion, and generic sticky minions.
Also, Epic and no immediate board impact.
Doomguard is invaluable and great.

2x Doomguard is absolutely the most important thing to add to your deck.

Don't drop Doomguard for Leeroy or Arcane Golem. Doomguard can also trade AND force the enemy to struggle to remove it.

You generally don't discard anything when you play it, and even if you do, who cares.
Most of your cards are interchangeable, and you draw 2 per turn.

C'Thun promotes a very different deck than Zoo. C'thun Warlocks might exist, but they won't be zoos (first reason: You need to get to turn 10)

[Zevox]

Well, I'm definitely enjoying having Liadrin as my new Paladin portrait. I like her lines, and it's kind of nice actually having a golden hero. (Despite how long I've played, I'm only halfway there at best with a couple of classes. Comes from intermittent play and not playing any class consistently enough - I split most of my time between basically seven classes.)

Now I really want to see some Paladin cards from the new expansion that hopefully save the class from going back to bottom of the pack when it loses those sweet GvG cards. Would kind of suck to get a cool new Paladin portrait and then shortly thereafter have Paladin once again have no good decks...

[Hamste]

Huh, would have thought you were somewhat close with your warlock hero. Speaking of which only 20 something wins away from my golden Gul'dan. So excited for that.

[Gandariel]

I'm actually the same as Zevox.

Between my mostly playing arena, unranked games and the fact that I play all classes kind of equally (except warrior, which I play less) I'm nowhere near golden heroes.

Then again, I couldn't care less about them, so I don't have any problems.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

New priest Legendary revealed on stream:
http://puu.sh/nNwPy/bd53f53c78.png

Basically that one mini brawl in a card.
Was discussing with friends how to make a Murloc combo deck out of this. You might be able to do a midrange Priest that basically uses murlocs as its Force/Savage Roar combo.

1x Murloc Warleader
2x Bluegill Warrior
1x this Legendary

Unfortunately, you do have to reduce the cost of these cards with Thaurissan, since Priest doesn't have Innervate. But here's what this combo gets you...

Two Murloc Warleaders, one of which is a 1/1 (buffed to 3/2 by the other Warleader)
Four Bluegill Warriors, two of which are 6/3s, two of which are 5/3s

That's 22 charge damage, so if you've gotten them low enough by that point, you win.

Pretty fiddly and specific with its cards, though, and one problem is that Druid can use Force/Savage for other things that aren't the kill combo. But, random interesting idea that could see some potential if other murloc synergy cards show up.

[Zevox]

Huh, would have thought you were somewhat close with your warlock hero. Speaking of which only 20 something wins away from my golden Gul'dan. So excited for that.
Warlock and Mage are the two that I'm around halfway there with, so you're on the right track about which class I have the most with, anyway. But no, not actually close to getting it with any class.

Specifically, I'm at:

Warlock: 278
Mage: 254
Warrior: 163
Druid: 150
Shaman: 126
Paladin: 113
Priest: 83
Rogue: 63
Hunter: Either 0 or close to it. Can't check because I don't have a Hunter deck.

[PsyBomb]

Wow, thanks for all the advice on the Zoo deck. I had intended to lean it more aggressive than most, so I'll probably spend the first month after rotation testing variations. Good to know the Doomguards really are That Important, still need to craft them.

[turbo164]

Shade of Naxxramus seems like a decent thing to squidface as well, though that won't be Standard.

[Joran]

Huh, would have thought you were somewhat close with your warlock hero. Speaking of which only 20 something wins away from my golden Gul'dan. So excited for that.

Warlock is my favorite hero. I was a huge fan of Zoo and now I'm loving Renolock. My only Golden hero so far is Warlock and it's so pretty. I don't play games to grind up golden heroes, but it does suck that playing my favorite class doesn't have any kind of advancement possible.

I only have 3 classes to level 60:

Warlock (500+ wins, lvl 60)
Hunter (364 wins, lvl 60)
Mage (254 wins, lvl 60)
Warrior (168 wins, lvl 49)
Paladin (141 wins, lvl 54)
Rogue (100 wins, lvl 44)
Druid (65 wins, lvl 43)
Shaman (34 wins, lvl 33)
Priest (3 wins, lvl 39)

I hate Priest so much, that I re-roll any 3 win Priest quests. I can play any of the other classes, just not Priest.

[Zevox]

As far as levels go, I've gotten Mage and Warlock to 60, Druid and Warrior are at 59, Paladin and Shaman are at 58, Priest is at 57, Rogue is at 48, and Hunter is at 21.

Yeah, that provides a better measure how relatively evenly I split playing each class besides Rogue and Hunter, and how little I really play Hunter, than my progress towards golden heroes I'd say.

[Wayac]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/283/827/635940756926994058.png
Just got the pun as I'm posting this :smalltongue:

So if my math is right, if you played Knife Juggler, Knife Juggler, Wisp, Herald Volasj on turn 10 that's 14 total knives thrown. Not sure if that's worth it, but I wanna see it happen.

[boomwolf]

Volasj knife madness seems funny enough to build a deck just to try.

The infested Tauren gives us a new decent deathrattle too. And can be cast with herald.

[moossabi]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/283/827/635940756926994058.png
Just got the pun as I'm posting this :smalltongue:

So if my math is right, if you played Knife Juggler, Knife Juggler, Wisp, Herald Volasj on turn 10 that's 14 total knives thrown. Not sure if that's worth it, but I wanna see it happen.

I don't get the pun...

[The Glyphstone]

I don't get the pun...

It's a Starcraft joke. "Infested Tauren" = "Infested Terran".

[Rodin]

Looks to be the new Sludge Belcher. Not really sure if it'll see play...2/3 is a heck of a lot worse than 3/5, and a 2/2 instead of a 1/2 doesn't make that much of a difference I wouldn't think.

On the other hand, for 4 mana taunts there's not a lot of competition. The vital "blocks two minions" bit also can't be underestimated.

[Destro_Yersul]

If I'm reading that right, the 2/2 slime doesn't have taunt. That card is bad and should feel bad.

The pun is great, though.

[Rodin]

If I'm reading that right, the 2/2 slime doesn't have taunt. That card is bad and should feel bad.

The pun is great, though.

Huh. You're right.

That's bloody awful, in that case. A 4/5 for 4, but split into two cards that have terribad stats.

[Hamste]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/283/827/635940756926994058.png
Just got the pun as I'm posting this :smalltongue:

So if my math is right, if you played Knife Juggler, Knife Juggler, Wisp, Herald Volasj on turn 10 that's 14 total knives thrown. Not sure if that's worth it, but I wanna see it happen.

If I remember ordering it does 1 when second juggler is played, 2 when wisp is played, 2 when Volasj is played, 2 when third juggler comes into play, 3 when 4th juggler comes into play and then 4 when 2nd wisp comes into play. So it does seem like that would be 14 knives thrown.

[otakuryoga]

sadly if you take liadrin in to face KelThuzad
you simply get her line about her hammer and then he says "at least we meet"

8(

[Zevox]

Huh. You're right.

That's bloody awful, in that case. A 4/5 for 4, but split into two cards that have terribad stats.
Yeah, that's my thought as well. Sludge Belcher this ain't, not by a long shot. 2/3 for 4 is crap, not merely sub-par like 3/5 for 5, and without taunt on the deathrattle slime it's a lot worse at protecting you or your board than Belcher on his worst day. Even in arena it's probably sub-par, so I seriously doubt it sees constructed use.

Sen'jin Shieldmasta will remain the best 4-mana taunt if that's his only new competition, and with Belcher's departure may retake his mantle as the best neutral taunter period.

[PsyBomb]

Infested Tauren would need to see some truly strange circumstances to ever be played. Just not going to be any good at any of its jobs.

Random note from Kripparian that I thought was interesting: should C'thun Combo become popular, cards like Grim Patron and the new Hogger are going to become very important, since they'll naturally soak huge chunks of the battlecry just by how they work. The math is fuzzy when I tried to check it out, but in essence a single Grim Patron can soak upwards of 80% of the blast (smaller blasts get less soaked). Something to keep in mind, since otherwise a 20-point with Brann is not really survivable (but with Patron you're taking maybe 8 to face)

[Dalinale]

Infested Tauren is just a Piloted Sky Golem nerf.

[ShinyRocks]

Given that I don't care about consistent wins and only care about shenanigans and fun decks, I'm looking forward to some sort of Thaurissan/Shadowfiend set up followed by Velen on board, then Brann, Herald Volazj and 40-damage Mind Blasts. Obviously it would almost never work, but when it did, it would be great.

[turbo164]

Given that I don't care about consistent wins and only care about shenanigans and fun decks, I'm looking forward to some sort of Thaurissan/Shadowfiend set up followed by Velen on board, then Brann, Herald Volazj and 40-damage Mind Blasts. Obviously it would almost never work, but when it did, it would be great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-jfy6rx-uM

[Hamste]

Infested Tauren is just a Piloted Sky Golem nerf.

Piloted shredder actually.

[Chen]

Piloted shredder actually.

I assume they meant Sky Golem since it can come out of one, not that it was a nerfed version of the Sky Golem. On to the Tauren itself it needs an extra stat somewhere to be even remotely close to playable. A 2/4 taunt that drops a 2/2 after might see some play. Even then though it'd probably need to be closer to a 2/5 or 3/4 before it would see any serious amount of play IMO.

[Joran]

Huh. You're right.

That's bloody awful, in that case. A 4/5 for 4, but split into two cards that have terribad stats.

Viewed another way it's a Harvest Golem for 1 more mana and you get taunt on the first half and 1 extra health on the back half. Not good.

[moossabi]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/doom-210x291.png
We have a Twisting Nether on steroids.

[Hamste]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/doom-210x291.png
We have a Twisting Nether on steroids.

Seems too slow. Dreadstead decks might have run it if dreadstead wasn't going to lose most of the cards that let them even slightly exist.

[ShinyRocks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-jfy6rx-uM

I really like Kibler. He always seems to genuinely enjoy the game, and likes seeing weird decks, even if they beat him. A lot of streamers get so mad if people do something different - they're so hooked into the meta.

[Chen]

Maybe it'd see some use in Combo Reno lock, but I agree I think it's just too slow.

[Joran]

Seems too slow. Dreadstead decks might have run it if dreadstead wasn't going to lose most of the cards that let them even slightly exist.

As someone who plays a bit of Reno Warlock, the card draw is unnecessary. I'd be more concerned about overdrawing or going into fatigue.

[Grytorm]

I think it would be stronger in another class but for Warlock I would be worried about the overdraw as well. I think Doom is good enough to think about playing over Twisting Nether even if you probably will go against it.

[TechnoWarforged]

http://i.imgur.com/kOVBGR4.png

Spot the Lethal

[AgentPaper]

http://i.imgur.com/kOVBGR4.png

Spot the Lethal

Uh, Hellfire, attack face?

[Landis963]

http://i.imgur.com/kOVBGR4.png

Spot the Lethal

Last two mana-> Ironbeak Owl the Azure Drake. Hellfire for 0, causing 3 damage to everything, killing off the boar, the murloc, Enhance-o, the blood imp, the squire, and the shredder. Salty dog, drake, and Voidcaller then swing for face, with 7+4+3=14 damage exactly, 3 over lethal.

EDIT: Can't just hellfire because Drake boosts it to 4 damage to everything, meaning it'll kill off your attack damage as well as their taunts.

[BRC]

Uh, Hellfire, attack face?

Nah, the Azure Drake brings Hellfire up to 4 damage, which wipes your board.

Owl your Drake, Then cast Hellfire, then go face.

[Landis963]

Having difficulties with LoE heroic again. This time the brick wall is Skelesaurus Hex. How did you guys beat him, and is there a way to do so without copious amounts of taunt and minion steal?

[Zevox]

Infested Tauren is just a Piloted Sky Golem nerf.
Piloted Sky Golem is leaving standard and rarely saw play anyway. It's great in arena, but being an epic holds it back from showing up much there, and in constructed it just got beat out by other 6-drops, notably Sylvanas and Emperor Thaurissan, plus the odd class-specific card like Cabal Shadowpriest or Shieldmaiden.


http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/doom-210x291.png
We have a Twisting Nether on steroids.
Just what Warlock needed: more expensive Twisting Nether, now with card draw!

Yeah, holy crap is that a bad card. If Twisting Nether is too slow for anything but the occasional Reno deck, that's sure as hell too slow for anything period. And out of every class, Warlock is the absolute last one that wants a card that is identical to one of their existing cards except for tacking on card draw at the cost of 2 more mana. That is a "dust on sight" card if I've ever seen one.

[Destro_Yersul]

Having difficulties with LoE heroic again. This time the brick wall is Skelesaurus Hex. How did you guys beat him, and is there a way to do so without copious amounts of taunt and minion steal?

I used Hunter and aggroed him as fast as I could. Tech in Kezan Mystic to loot his secrets and Flare to blow up the ones you can't loot, then SMOrc all day.

[AgentPaper]

Yeah, holy crap is that a bad card. If Twisting Nether is too slow for anything but the occasional Reno deck, that's sure as hell too slow for anything period. And out of every class, Warlock is the absolute last one that wants a card that is identical to one of their existing cards except for tacking on card draw at the cost of 2 more mana. That is a "dust on sight" card if I've ever seen one.

In the current meta, sure. However, the new meta has C'thun and the other Old Gods, all of which are likely to be quite big and involve a fairly slow game as they build up to that.

This probably won't see play in any existing Warlock decks, but I could very much see it be used in a combo deck, to help survive until you draw your combo, help draw your combo, and if your combo involves creatures attacking, then also clear out some taunts for your combo.

Of course, that relies on such a combo surfacing, and/or the meta slowing down some, but I wouldn't peg it as "dust on sight" quite yet.

[Zevox]

In the current meta, sure. However, the new meta has C'thun and the other Old Gods, all of which are likely to be quite big and involve a fairly slow game as they build up to that.

This probably won't see play in any existing Warlock decks, but I could very much see it be used in a combo deck, to help survive until you draw your combo, help draw your combo, and if your combo involves creatures attacking, then also clear out some taunts for your combo.

Of course, that relies on such a combo surfacing, and/or the meta slowing down some, but I wouldn't peg it as "dust on sight" quite yet.
I don't think any combo deck or meta could possibly be slow enough to justify that over Twisting Nether. Even Twisting Nether takes a pretty slow meta to justify - hence why it's not even always in Reno decks. A 10-mana card needs to be a huge game-changer bordering on game-winner. C'Thun might be that, because of how potent his combination of damage-on-play and body could be, but even that's not completely certain I think. And so far no 10-mana card has been good enough to see consistent play, including Variant Wrynn, whom I would certainly peg as easily a better card than Doom.

I mean come on, you're taking a card that has already been bad and almost completely unplayed throughout Hearthstone's history, bumping up the mana cost to the maximum possible and adding a bonus effect that is more than a little redundant with the hero power of the class it's in to justify that extra mana cost. If this thing sees any serious play outside of very early periods where people experiment with everything, I'll be absolutely astounded.

[Joran]

In the current meta, sure. However, the new meta has C'thun and the other Old Gods, all of which are likely to be quite big and involve a fairly slow game as they build up to that.

This probably won't see play in any existing Warlock decks, but I could very much see it be used in a combo deck, to help survive until you draw your combo, help draw your combo, and if your combo involves creatures attacking, then also clear out some taunts for your combo.

Of course, that relies on such a combo surfacing, and/or the meta slowing down some, but I wouldn't peg it as "dust on sight" quite yet.

The combo already exists. It's Leeroy + Power Overwhelming + Faceless Manipulator for 20 damage in a Reno deck; you can tag on an Abusive Sergeant or another PO from a Dark Peddler for even more damage. Emperor only needs to hit one of those cards in the standard 3 card combo for it to fit in 10 mana.

Before there was Emperor, Darkwonyx had an Arcane Golem + Double PO + Faceless combo for 24 damage.

I play a bit of Combo Renolock; DOOM! feels too slow and liable to overdraw me or get me too close to fatigue. There's already 4 boardwipes in the deck; Shadowflame, Twisting Nether, Hellfire, and Demonwrath, none of them leaving standard. I find Twisting Nether to be good, but I wouldn't want a second one in my deck.

Edit: Here's the deck I'm playing with. It's tons of fun. Winning with it often feels like RNG about whether or not you draw the cards in the specific order you need them, but it does lead to hilarious turns like Twisting Nether on a Secret Paladin's entire board, including Tirion, and then Acidic Ooze on the Ashbringer.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/403479-vlps-renolock-top-10-na


Having difficulties with LoE heroic again. This time the brick wall is Skelesaurus Hex. How did you guys beat him, and is there a way to do so without copious amounts of taunt and minion steal?

When in doubt, Secret Paladin. I think I got lucky, managed to get the Heroic done on the first try or so.

[otakuryoga]

Infested Tauren is just a Piloted Sky Golem nerf.


Piloted shredder actually.

actually, I see it as an cheaper/corrupted/inferior version of whats his name the legendary tauren

tauren spawns a tauren on death.. total stats of 4/5 instead of 8/10

[Infernally Clay]

I'm kinda hoping the corrupted Amani Berserker has crazy high stats for its cost and an Enrage that weakens it considerably. If the original was a two mana 5/2 at best, maybe a four mana 5/5 with "Enrage: -3 attack"?

[gomipile]

I'm kinda hoping the corrupted Amani Berserker has crazy high stats for its cost and an Enrage that weakens it considerably. If the original was a two mana 5/2 at best, maybe a four mana 5/5 with "Enrage: -3 attack"?

That would be really strange. I don't see that getting played. It would exist to help people who know not to draft it in arena.

[Togath]

That would be really strange. I don't see that getting played. It would exist to help people who know not to draft it in arena.

What if it ended up in a similar state to ancient watcher? where the cost benefit makes it work self-silencing a minion(4 mana for a 5/5 and a 2/1 seems pretty decent).

[Kish]

actually, I see it as an cheaper/corrupted/inferior version of whats his name the legendary tauren

tauren spawns a tauren on death.. total stats of 4/5 instead of 8/10
The ooze is not a tauren.

[Hamste]

What if it ended up in a similar state to ancient watcher? where the cost benefit makes it work self-silencing a minion(4 mana for a 5/5 and a 2/1 seems pretty decent).

There is a good chance owl is getting nerfed. It doesn't appear in any of the deck archetypes if I remember correctly which hints a nerf is incoming seeing how often it appears in the meta.

[Togath]

How could it be nerfed though?
Like, honest question.
It's silence is it's main purpose, and reducing it to a 1/1 or 0/1 doesn't seem like it would be a major debuff.
Maybe a cost increase? How much is a silence worth though? It's such a potent effect if used right.

[Hamste]

How could it be nerfed though?
Like, honest question.
It's silence is it's main purpose, and reducing it to a 1/1 or 0/1 doesn't seem like it would be a major debuff.
Maybe a cost increase? How much is a silence worth though? It's such a potent effect if used right.

If I had to guess the silence will be more specific. There hasn't been a condition free silence released since classic so if I had to guess they will make it so it can only silence specific effects or specific types of cards.

[Legoshrimp]

If I had to guess the silence will be more specific. There hasn't been a condition free silence released since classic so if I had to guess they will make it so it can only silence specific effects or specific types of cards.

What would that be? "only silence cards with taunt", "only silence cards with an end of turn effect", "...a stat buff", "...permanent card effects"? I guess it could be like the thing that silences demons, but what would the condition be?

My guess is it is more likely to be a cost increase. Probably 3 mana 2/1, but I guess it depends if they want to leave it in a playable state...Actually most likely it will be a 5 mana 3/2. Based on history. Also they won't even bother changing spellbreaker :smalltongue:

[neriractor]

How could it be nerfed though?
Like, honest question.
It's silence is it's main purpose, and reducing it to a 1/1 or 0/1 doesn't seem like it would be a major debuff.
Maybe a cost increase? How much is a silence worth though? It's such a potent effect if used right.

Iron beak owl 2 mana
2/1

text: your charge minions have +1 attack

[Legoshrimp]

Iron beak owl 2 mana
2/1

text: your charge minions have +1 attack
that is low enough mana it might actually be usable in combos(also isn't warrior specific.) Possibly a hunter unleash deck, although thinking about it nevermind timberwolf????(1/1 for 1 with beasts gain 1 atk) isn't used at all. So this is just worse as I can't think of any other way that generates mass charge.

[Hamste]

Iron beak owl 2 mana
2/1

text: your charge minions have +1 attack

Don't be silly, that has nothing to do with the original. Text should be:Your silenced minions have +1 attack.

Now it is just like the original and no one can tell the difference.

[BRC]

More seriously, making it 3 mana and making Spellbreaker 5 mana seems like a likely nerf.

The thing about Owl is that at 2 mana it can be played on top of an otherwise strong turn mid to late game. Upping it to 3 mana makes it a bit harder to play on, say, turn 6 or 7.

[Gandariel]

Or maybe they'll make it "Battlecry: Target minion loses Taunt"

[Hamste]

Or maybe they'll make it "Battlecry: Target minion loses Taunt"

Not even the prebuilt aggro decks have it so that seems unlikely.

[Darth Mario]

Battle cry: target face gains taunt

[Infernally Clay]

So the new guy is a one mana 1/1 that deals one damage to all minions when it dies. It's like that Explosive Sheep, but way worse because it lacks Mech synergy and does half the damage when it dies.

[Joran]

So the new guy is a one mana 1/1 that deals one damage to all minions when it dies. It's like that Explosive Sheep, but way worse because it lacks Mech synergy and does half the damage when it dies.

It can also be compared to Unstable Ghoul. Interesting card, unable to evaluate because we don't know what the meta will be like or what cards could combo with it. It might see play in the new Patron Warrior decks because Patron is losing Death's Bite and Unstable Ghoul in Standard.

[Mando Knight]

It might see play in the new Patron Warrior decks because Patron is losing Death's Bite and Unstable Ghoul in Standard.

Yeah, it may see play in Patron as a third or fourth Whirlwind. It kills token decks, can potentially be played ahead of the Patrons if your opponent doesn't have a way to kill it too early, and doesn't cost more than a regular Whirlwind.

[The Glyphstone]

Battle cry: target face gains taunt

Silence Target Beast.

[Joran]

What would that be? "only silence cards with taunt", "only silence cards with an end of turn effect", "...a stat buff", "...permanent card effects"? I guess it could be like the thing that silences demons, but what would the condition be?

My guess is it is more likely to be a cost increase. Probably 3 mana 2/1, but I guess it depends if they want to leave it in a playable state...Actually most likely it will be a 5 mana 3/2. Based on history. Also they won't even bother changing spellbreaker :smalltongue:

Personally, I'd make it "Silence target creature with 3 or less attack". It can still take out Doomsayers and Eggs/Spiders/Mad Scientists/Deathlords/Sludge Belcher in Standard, but won't destroy really big minions.

Whatever it becomes, I bet it keeps the 2/1 statline because "soul of the card" ;)

[Qwertystop]

Maybe "Target creature with mana cost 3 or less"? Silences cheap deathrattlers and wimpy stuff that's only there to hold buffs.

[BRC]

Maybe "Target creature with mana cost 3 or less"? Silences cheap deathrattlers and wimpy stuff that's only there to hold buffs.

Forcing people to run the more awkward Spellbreaker to silence bigger minions? I could see that.

[Qwertystop]

Honestly, it just makes more sense to me from a few steps back than any other option that comes to mind. What's the main problem with Owl? That it's a really cheap minion that shuts down lots of big expensive plays - too much tempo. So how do you fix it? Stop it from shutting down the big, expensive plays. Don't link it to stats, link it directly to cost. Large buffs on small minions remain a risky play, but big minions with all their value in non-battlecry effects will no longer be shut down by something less than a third if their cost.

[Joran]

Honestly, it just makes more sense to me from a few steps back than any other option that comes to mind. What's the main problem with Owl? That it's a really cheap minion that shuts down lots of big expensive plays - too much tempo. So how do you fix it? Stop it from shutting down the big, expensive plays. Don't link it to stats, link it directly to cost. Large buffs on small minions remain a risky play, but big minions with all their value in non-battlecry effects will no longer be shut down by something less than a third if their cost.

Only problem is visibility/clarity. Attack / health are easily viewable at a glance on the board. If you don't know the cards, especially tokens, you need to hover over the minion to see their mana cost.

[Kish]

You can always right-click the owl back into your hand if it turns out that you can't have it silence what you want it to silence.

[BRC]

You can always right-click the owl back into your hand if it turns out that you can't have it silence what you want it to silence.
Or add some generic thing, similar to conditional battlecries in-hand, that highlights acceptable targets on the board.

[PsyBomb]

N'zoth's Tentacle: 1/1 for one that Whirlwinds on deathrattle. Generic, too. There is... Potential? It isn't as good as Whirlwind and you won't always be able to set it off (except in Mage), but it is definitely a generic Whirlwind. It's not the kind of thing you play out early, but it'll hurt Aggro and Zoo when it sneaks onto the board. I think it'll see meta-dependent use, plus appearing in new iterations of Patron or similar.

Also the first revealed card associated with an Old God other than C'thun. Might be a clue how N'zoth will operate

[Joran]

You can always right-click the owl back into your hand if it turns out that you can't have it silence what you want it to silence.

With the current way battlecries work, if there's no valid target, it'll just get played onto the board. So, it'd suck if you tried to silence something, didn't realize it cost too much and have just played a tempo 2/1 XD

[Infernally Clay]

http://i.imgur.com/pXIpSLl.png

Spellpower Shaman is totally in this year. D:

[Mando Knight]

Hey guys, how's it going, Shaman Legendary here. (https://youtu.be/InuLuZ8s1KA)

Hallazeal the Ascended

5 mana 4/6 Shaman Legendary

Whenever your spells deal damage, restore that much Health to your hero.

[PsyBomb]

The shaman legendary, I'm not sure will be used. It's a slow play in the current popular versions (remember that Aggro/Face basically never look at their own life total) and has mediocre stats for the cost. Maybe if Control Shaman becomes a thing?

[Infernally Clay]

Lightning Storm plus Hallazeal is going to be insane. You could easily heal twelve to fifteen hit points off of that combo. Throw in some spell power and the heal obviously goes up a lot. Elemental Destruction would typically heal you as much as Reno, too.

Somehow I get the feeling Shamans just got a whole lot harder to kill. Could you imagine Reno Shaman with a Healing Wave and Hallazeal in it too? You'd have to get through 60+ health per game just to kill the Shaman.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

4/6 stats on a 5-mana card? That's not really mediocre, it's 1 attack shy of passing the vanilla test. And yeah, AoEs comboed with this are gonna be beastly. Shamans will just refuse to die.

[neriractor]

that new legendary seems sweet for a control shaman, seems like they are getting some nice cards after all (or at least one).

[PsyBomb]

Do you guys think the new legendary will enable Control Shaman? I know it represents potentially tons of life, but at 6 mana it's slow and direct damage spells are hard to stock up on long-term, since Shaman lacks the Freeze capability to stall out enemies effectively.

If this set unveils a Tremor Totem, though, all bets are off.

[Murmaider]

That's probably the best card revealed so far from this set. After the disapointment that was the priest legendary, this card got me excited again and makes me looking for more from this expansion. If Blizzard gives us a decent crackle replacement, this card alone could elevate Malygos Shaman a tier or two.

[Mando Knight]

Do you guys think the new legendary will enable Control Shaman? I know it represents potentially tons of life, but at 6 mana it's slow and direct damage spells are hard to stock up on long-term, since Shaman lacks the Freeze capability to stall out enemies effectively.

You basically only need to get off one Lightning Storm to make it worthwhile, though you'd need to be at 8 mana to do it in one turn.

[Zevox]

Uh, guys, when posting about new cards, any chance the first one to talk about it could post a link to where it was revealed or a picture of the card itself? Or at least the full text? I mean, I come into the thread and see things like this:


Also the first revealed card associated with an Old God other than C'thun. Might be a clue how N'zoth will operate
...and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about unless someone clarifies later.


Hey guys, how's it going, Shaman Legendary here. (https://youtu.be/InuLuZ8s1KA)

Hallazeal the Ascended

5 mana 4/6 Shaman Legendary

Whenever your spells deal damage, restore that much Health to your hero.
Well now, that has some serious potential, considering how darn many Shaman damage-dealing spells there are. I used to love old control-oriented Shaman decks back when they actually worked, and right now the closest I can get is Reno Shaman getting by just because any non-Hunter class can pull off Reno to some degree. Hopefully this helps make a Control Shaman that doesn't rely on Reno viable - or at least make Reno Shaman better.

The 1/1 deathrattle: whirlwind that's been mention, eh, yeah, sounds like a potential Patron Warrior card and little else to me.

[PsyBomb]

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/16610-hearthstone-card-reveals-doom-and-nzoths-tentacle/

Second card at the link is the tentacle

[Zevox]

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/16610-hearthstone-card-reveals-doom-and-nzoths-tentacle/

Second card at the link is the tentacle
Oh, you were just talking about the 1/1 with whirlwind? I thought there was another card entirely you were referencing. Eh, I don't think that has any clue to how the legendary will work. The C'Thun cards actually interact with C'Thun. That one doesn't.

[Hamste]

My completely blind guess is it will be an exodia style thing where get enough pieces of him together will summon him kind of like the head. Could also be a Stalagg/Feugen style thing where if enough die in a turn you summon him.

[Infernally Clay]

I'd laugh if N'zoth was, like, a super weak six mana 2/2 card that was Stormwind Champion on steroids for cards with N'zoth in the name, giving +4/+4 or something silly like that to any of them in play.

Or it's a pretty strong otherwise vanilla card that gains +1/+1 for all N'zoth minions on your side of the board.

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe he gets buffed by the number of Nzoth minions that have died for you? The way Cthun likes Battlecries and getting his minions to stick around at end of turn, Nzoth likes Deathrattles,

[Murmaider]

My completely blind guess is it will be an exodia style thing where get enough pieces of him together will summon him kind of like the head. Could also be a Stalagg/Feugen style thing where if enough die in a turn you summon him.

So if you have all the parts and play Deathwing you also summon N'zoth, w00t?!

[Kish]

You can already get Thaddius (or two Thaddiuses, if you have both Feugen and Stalagg on the board when you play Deathwing) that way, so that interaction wouldn't exactly be surprising.

[Legoshrimp]

So the new guy is a one mana 1/1 that deals one damage to all minions when it dies. It's like that Explosive Sheep, but way worse because it lacks Mech synergy and does half the damage when it dies.

I think I have literally never seen sheep have mech synergy. Which makes sense, because it kills allied minions which is pretty much only synergistic in warrior, and only if it is 1 damage.

Sheep is good because of the 2 damage and ability to be pinged.

[Joran]

I think I have literally never seen sheep have mech synergy. Which makes sense, because it kills allied minions which is pretty much only synergistic in warrior, and only if it is 1 damage.

Sheep is good because of the 2 damage and ability to be pinged.

Sheep has plenty of mech synergy. It drops out of a Piloted Shredder and I start wondering how a Sheep without any hands can pilot a shredder.

[Legoshrimp]

Sheep has plenty of mech synergy. It drops out of a Piloted Shredder and I start wondering how a Sheep without any hands can pilot a shredder.

Baaaaarain power?

[Darth Mario]

Not as weird as a literal egg piloting a shredder.

[Murmaider]

You can already get Thaddius (or two Thaddiuses, if you have both Feugen and Stalagg on the board when you play Deathwing) that way, so that interaction wouldn't exactly be surprising.

I know but;

"The sun has set on this mortal world, fools. Make peace with your end, for the hour of ...Thaddius falls!"

just hasn't that nice a ring to it.

[ChaosOS]

Tentacle is a decent anti-aggro tool, effectively trading with x/2s if it can swing into them while also clearing any x/1s off the table. Hunter plays Leper Gnome, you play tentacle, hunter has to trade in leper gnome if they want to play Knife Juggler. Pretty effective IMO.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The tentacle seems...idk. It's not what Patron Warrior needs to stay relevant; Death's Bite is good because it's powerful removal. That said, you can Whirlwind a Tentacle with a Patron on the board, get one whirlwind (for 2 Patrons total) and trigger a second one (for 4 Patrons total), maybe even stack another activator on top of that. In my experience with Patron 2.0, though, Death's Bite is just so immensely useful because it's a removal card (that also makes Dread Corsair into a good, playable taunt).

Though part of me wonders, if there'll be more "damage everything" synergy on non-Warrior cards, what a Patron Priest would look like. Pack the tentacles, Wild Pyro (to combo with Power Word Shield and Circle of Healing), Grim Patron, and see what that gets you. Hm, actually, Grim Patrons make great bodies for a massive Circle of Healing -> Holy Champion combo.

[Joran]

New card: N'Zoth's First Mate.

Warrior Card: 1 for 1/1, equip a 1/3 Rusty Hook, Pirate.

http://imgur.com/z8P1EvC

So, a Pirate, Warrior common, you trade 1 durability on a Light's Justice for a 1/1 body. Really good in arena since it's a playable one drop that equips a weapon; trades into 3/2 2 drops well. In constructed, really depends on what they add for Pirate decks. Pirate synergy took a hit in Standard because Ship's Cannon is rotating out.

[Infernally Clay]

N'zoth's First Mate, Coin, Upgrade!... Now that's a dominating early game play.

There's also the chance of N'zoth synergy as we joked earlier. The name can't be a coincidence, right?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The interesting thing to note is that this and N'zoth's Tentacle are both 1/1s. I think that N'zoth is going to have an effect related to 1/1s, somehow. Maybe 1/1s that died, or something like that. Which probably means he gets a lot of good synergy with Paladin.

[PsyBomb]

That card is actually really good... it's four damage out from one mana, and given how Warrior runs it might permit near-constant weapon uptime. Even swinging for face. It tempo plays like crazy against Druid, Rogue, and Mage, who are used to a 1 health minion being negligible to remove. This is the budget Muster that paladin wanted but couldn't have.

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, Light's Justice is 4 damage for 1 mana, and it doesn't get used cause it's terrible. I think this is better than light's justice, but not by a lot. It's... ok?

[ShinyRocks]

New card: N'Zoth's First Mate.

Warrior Card: 1 for 1/1, equip a 1/3 Rusty Hook, Pirate.

http://imgur.com/z8P1EvC

So, a Pirate, Warrior common, you trade 1 durability on a Light's Justice for a 1/1 body. Really good in arena since it's a playable one drop that equips a weapon; trades into 3/2 2 drops well. In constructed, really depends on what they add for Pirate decks. Pirate synergy took a hit in Standard because Ship's Cannon is rotating out.

The fact that that isn't a Rogue card makes me almost as angry as Paladins getting Murloc Knight over Shamans.

[Infernally Clay]

The interesting thing to note is that this and N'zoth's Tentacle are both 1/1s. I think that N'zoth is going to have an effect related to 1/1s, somehow. Maybe 1/1s that died, or something like that. Which probably means he gets a lot of good synergy with Paladin.

Now that you mention it, I noticed Hobgoblin is getting pushed out of Standard. Perhaps that actually hints towards N'zoth being an actually playable Hobgoblin-style card, if the theme really is all about 1/1 minions.

[moossabi]

Now that you mention it, I noticed Hobgoblin is getting pushed out of Standard. Perhaps that actually hints towards N'zoth being an actually playable Hobgoblin-style card, if the theme really is all about 1/1 minions.

Perhaps "summon 6 random 1/1s that died this game, but with 5/5 stats instead." That may probably be fairly broken, but it would be a really cool finisher.

[Mando Knight]

New Brawl: Evil Exchange. KT vs Rafaam.

Of course he plays well, he's Kel-Thu-Freakin'-Zad! Better BM game (Kel-Thu-Freakin'-Zad!), ridiculous boss minions, 2-mana Assassinate, Resurrect as a Hero power (on top of ridiculous minions)...

Rafaam's Hero Power isn't bad either, but it takes two spells for it to really get going, and then it's still just an upgraded Unstable Portal (though after the second spell, it gives you Legendaries at -4).

[Joran]

Well, Light's Justice is 4 damage for 1 mana, and it doesn't get used cause it's terrible. I think this is better than light's justice, but not by a lot. It's... ok?

Light's Justice is underrated in Arena. It costs a card, but a ping is pretty powerful. In Constructed, there's already Muster for Battle and the Light's Justice from that is pretty powerful, but may not be worth the card if it wasn't stapled to 3 dudes.

Difficult to evaluate in constructed because Warrior weapon synergy, pirate synergy, Old Gods synergy is completely unknown now but it's a really good card in arena.

[Talion]

New Brawl: Evil Exchange. KT vs Rafaam.

Of course he plays well, he's Kel-Thu-Freakin'-Zad! Better BM game (Kel-Thu-Freakin'-Zad!), ridiculous boss minions, 2-mana Assassinate, Resurrect as a Hero power (on top of ridiculous minions)...

Rafaam's Hero Power isn't bad either, but it takes two spells for it to really get going, and then it's still just an upgraded Unstable Portal (though after the second spell, it gives you Legendaries at -4).

What a luck based nightmare, and it takes for bloody ever...granted I stood a good shot at winning my second match until my internet cut out on me (I was up 28 points and my opponent's field was empty). I finally won after my opponent couldn't stop summoning mad scientists even after expending all their secrets...that and 1/2 slimes with Taunt. That was consistently funny. Especially when I could use my hero power and get a chillmaw (twice) or a Graz'rilla (they did manage to kill that before it could do anything).

[PsyBomb]

What a luck based nightmare, and it takes for bloody ever...granted I stood a good shot at winning my second match until my internet cut out on me (I was up 28 points and my opponent's field was empty). I finally won after my opponent couldn't stop summoning mad scientists even after expending all their secrets...that and 1/2 slimes with Taunt. That was consistently funny. Especially when I could use my hero power and get a chillmaw (twice) or a Graz'rilla (they did manage to kill that before it could do anything).

I won after game 2 (Rafaam both times, and Complete Staff gave me Finley both rimes first). Pulled Malygos, so there's that.

[Kish]

Rafaam is distressingly un-thematic. One advantage to a boss battle which took both bosses from the same adventure was that it obviated any temptation to treat "look, Blackrock Mountain cards!" as enough of a theme for either boss: Ragnaros is fire, Nefarian is dragons. Kel'Thuzad is sort of undead, though it's just because Naxxramas is all undead, not because his theme isn't actually "Naxxramas." But Arch-Thief Rafaam should be about theft, and he totally isn't; to what extent he has a theme it's "looky, all the League of Explorers cards!"

[Mando Knight]

I won after game 2 (Rafaam both times, and Complete Staff gave me Finley both rimes first).

Yeah, I am most definitely not up for the adventure of "beating KT with a regular hero power and a 1/3."

[Infernally Clay]

Kel is honestly insanely good. Gluth is, like, the MVP of Kel's early game. You seem to dominate specifically through board advantage and I don't know how Rafaam is supposed to keep up. By the time he gets the full staff, he's so behind on health and board presence that it seems almost impossible to recover.

[GAAD]

How to win as Rafaam from a lost position:
Stage 3 Hero Power, Ethereal Conjurer
Next turn: Acidmaw, Arcane Explosion.
GG

[turbo164]

My first game was Kel vs Rafaam. He upgraded his staff on like turn 3 and 5, got a t6 Ragnaros and t8 Ragnaros, and I never drew any 2-mana assassinate. I did however Resurrect my Sheep twice.

Second game was Rafaam, opponent d/c'd.

[Mando Knight]

Kel is honestly insanely good. Gluth is, like, the MVP of Kel's early game. You seem to dominate specifically through board advantage and I don't know how Rafaam is supposed to keep up. By the time he gets the full staff, he's so behind on health and board presence that it seems almost impossible to recover.

If you roll the right legendaries and KT starts resurrecting the wrong minions, you can win as Rafaam fairly easily. Or if you throw down Naz'jar after killing a Gothik (or two). The problem is that Rafaam is the king of RNG while Kel'Thuzad fights with huge minions and devastating spells.

[BRC]

I won early, in the hour before people realized that you could win as Kel by just NOT playingany minion you didn't want to add to your ressurection pool.

[Landis963]

So much RNG. And everyone with half a brain instantly DCs when they don't get KT, which leaves the rest of us stuck playing Rafaam game after Rafaam game after Rafaam game.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Perhaps "summon 6 random 1/1s that died this game, but with 5/5 stats instead." That may probably be fairly broken, but it would be a really cool finisher.
That would be pretty sick! Obviously needs tweaking, but I really like the idea behind it.

[GolemsVoice]

Wow, Heigan is the absolute MvP of this game. And since everybody is so eager to get rid of him, it's easy to get real value out of Duplicate.

[Zevox]

New card: N'Zoth's First Mate.

Warrior Card: 1 for 1/1, equip a 1/3 Rusty Hook, Pirate.

http://imgur.com/z8P1EvC

So, a Pirate, Warrior common, you trade 1 durability on a Light's Justice for a 1/1 body. Really good in arena since it's a playable one drop that equips a weapon; trades into 3/2 2 drops well. In constructed, really depends on what they add for Pirate decks. Pirate synergy took a hit in Standard because Ship's Cannon is rotating out.
Huh. Well, not bad, not bad at all. It's a bit more than 1/3 of Muster for Battle at 1/3 of the cost, in a class that often has problems due to its inability to ping. I think it's pretty safe to say that's a good arena card, little doubt in my mind.

Constructed? Eh, maybe, maybe not. I doubt it fits into Control Warrior barring a meta that is extremely aggro-heavy and it needs the extra tool against tempo-heavy early board flood - it's just not quite strong enough against other deck archetypes for a heavy Control deck like that. In another type of Warrior though, maybe. I don't know about Patron (largely because I'm not well versed in the post-Warsong version of the deck), but at the least we'll see if any new ones come about once Whispers of the Old Gods and Standard arrive.

Also, the new Brawl is a boss v boss one again? Sweet! Ragnaros v Nefarian is still my favorite, so I'm looking forward to trying this one out.

[Lunix Vandal]

Played the Brawl twice, won both times.

My first game was as Rafaam -- won by using Lady Naz'jar and the Pit Viper potion to keep the good stuff (i.e. Heigan) out of KT's Hero Power pool. Drawing the staff pieces early-ish helped as well, as did him removing Naz'jar then playing the "summon 2 bosses" spell, which gave him the Horsemen while I had a Patron (from Naz'jar rerolling the 5/5 for 5 genie).

Second game was as KT.
Turn 2, Coin + Heigan, opponent responded by using Rafaam's 0-mana random Assassinate and playing a Tinyfin from his Hero Power.
Turn 3, Hero Power (Heigan!) pass. Opponent plays Tomb Robber.
Turn 4, Hero Power (More Heigan!), 2-mana Assassinate-like on the Robber. Rafaam conceded.

... yeah, there's a lot of room for Rafaam to lose by simply not playing around KT's Hero Power.

[Draken]

Brawled twice thus far (Rafaam then Kel), both victories as well. My Rafaam victory was pretty much fully on the back of an Iron Sentinel + blood imp combo that earned a ton of value, allowing me to control the board.

The Kel'Thuzad victory was somewhat rocky, with my hero power (and duplicates) giving me pretty much an infinite stream of mad scientists. But the 8 mana summon two bosses spell then sealed it by bringing out Noth and Razuvious and allowing me to create an immense board that my opponent conceded to (even a flamestrike wouldn't have saved him, I think).

[PsyBomb]

So, we know that there are 16 cards that interact with C'thun in this set. So far, we have five of them, which give some hints to what the other 11 might look like.

We are missing 7 class cards that have 10-power triggers for the big guy. These will most likely be minions, but I could see a couple being spells. So far, the two revealed have looked an awful lot like cards that are rotating out if fully activated (Deathlord and Shieldmaiden), so that might suggest what the others could be like.

We also don't yet see minions on 1 or 5+ generic. I suspect one will be a six or seven mana Eye of C'thun that has a mini-blast battlecry and deathrattle to fetch the big guy to hand.

Any other thoughts?

[Zevox]

So, we know that there are 16 cards that interact with C'thun in this set. So far, we have five of them, which give some hints to what the other 11 might look like.

We are missing 7 class cards that have 10-power triggers for the big guy. These will most likely be minions, but I could see a couple being spells. So far, the two revealed have looked an awful lot like cards that are rotating out if fully activated (Deathlord and Shieldmaiden), so that might suggest what the others could be like.
Uh, what? None of them are anything like Deathlord. The Druid card is the one you didn't mention, but that's basically a Yeti that becomes a Handlock's Twilight Drake if C'Thun has been buffed enough, which is not even remotely like Deathlord. :smallconfused:

[Mando Knight]

All the way from China, let's welcome Anderonie's card!

http://i.imgur.com/wSGpHOM.jpg
Rough translation courtesy of Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4bpm7i/new_card_revealed_in_anderonies_weibo/):
Faceless Shambler

Epic 4 Mana 1/1 neutral minion

Taunt. Battlecry: Copy a friendly minion's attack and health.
Cheaper Manipulator that gains Taunt in exchange for not getting the target's effects. And it's vulnerable to Silence.

[neriractor]

Cheaper Manipulator that gains Taunt in exchange for not getting the target's effects. And it's vulnerable to Silence.

also you can only copy the stats of friendly minion so you need something on the board, or play it at a really high turn, seems like a decent card.

[PsyBomb]

Uh, what? None of them are anything like Deathlord. The Druid card is the one you didn't mention, but that's basically a Yeti that becomes a Handlock's Twilight Drake if C'Thun has been buffed enough, which is not even remotely like Deathlord. :smallconfused:

I guess it's in how you see it. Deathlord, to me, is defined as "minion with extremely high health for cost, conditional, meant to trade with multiple weaker enemies around his cost". Twilight Drake is in the same general category as well.


All the way from China, let's welcome Anderonie's card!

http://i.imgur.com/wSGpHOM.jpg
Rough translation courtesy of Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4bpm7i/new_card_revealed_in_anderonies_weibo/):
Faceless Shambler

Epic 4 Mana 1/1 neutral minion

Taunt. Battlecry: Copy a friendly minion's attack and health.
Cheaper Manipulator that gains Taunt in exchange for not getting the target's effects. And it's vulnerable to Silence.

I... tentatively like this one. There are a few good examples of cards with disproportionate stats (like the Amber Weaver above) which will make for excellent copies. It can pull stats from guys like C'thun in the late game, as well, and 4 is cheap. Pity it can only hit friends.

[Destro_Yersul]

I think vulnerability to silence might be less of a worry going forward, since it's a prevailing theory that Owl is getting nerfed. That would leave Spellbreaker and the priest's Silence as the only unconditional silences in the game, unless Spellbreaker gets nerfed too. Obviously we won't know for sure until standard hits and all the card changes go through, but I wouldn't count that as a major mark against a card just yet.

[Togath]

What is an anderonie?(honest question, I really don't know what one is)

[Landis963]

What is an anderonie?(honest question, I really don't know what one is)

Chinese streamer or youtuber, from empirical evidence. He apparently won a Reddit contest to spoil a card from WOG, which was this Faceless Shambler.

[Mando Knight]

Chinese streamer or youtuber, from empirical evidence. He apparently won a Reddit contest to spoil a card from WOG, which was this Faceless Shambler.

Not Reddit, Blizzard itself (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/whispers-of-the-old-gods/#vote). He's apparently a Big Deal when it comes to Chinese Hearthstone streamers, if even half the votes for him are legit.

[otakuryoga]

... yeah, there's a lot of room for Rafaam to lose by simply not playing around KT's Hero Power.

how exactly do you play around it?
most common strat as KT is you dump anything in start that is not heigan or the "end of turn deal 4 damage to random enemy guy"

KT does not play a minion until he has one of those(or if desperate the "kill something and make a 2/2 ooze")
and then its off to the races for him unless you have played zero critters and managed to make your full staff by this point(turn 6 at latest)

typical game is turn 3-5 heigan which just suicides into anything you put out and gets re-summoned while clogging your side w/ 0/3 that nuke you every turn because SMART KT's DONT SUMMON SPIDERS OR SCIENTISTS

[DaedalusMkV]

how exactly do you play around it?
most common strat as KT is you dump anything in start that is not heigan or the "end of turn deal 4 damage to random enemy guy"

Nas'jar pretty much ruined my life in that Brawl. All those OP Minions? I hope you like something awful that costs the same amount of mana instead!

I pulled it back around, though, thanks to Rafaam playing Onyxia into my board of four crummy Nas'jar induced Minions. Played the guy that makes a 1/1 and gives all your Minions +1/+1 every time an enemy dies, then froze Onyxia herself. His death was swift and painful.

[Fleeing Coward]

Not Reddit, Blizzard itself (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/whispers-of-the-old-gods/#vote). He's apparently a Big Deal when it comes to Chinese Hearthstone streamers, if even half the votes for him are legit.

Considering that China has almost 1/5th of the world's population and is it's own region for for Championship qualification, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a nice chunk of those votes are legit even if there's probably alot of bot votes in there:smalltongue:

Not a fan of the current brawl, 1 and done for me.

[Kish]

how exactly do you play around it?
As Lunix said, there are ways to make Heigan become not-Heigan before dying.

[PsyBomb]

Yeah. Five games in and only Rafaam so far. Key is patience, the three I won were all under 15 life

[moossabi]

Since there seems to be a small amount of confusion:

Heigan = 4 damage to a random enemy

Gothik = summon a spectral varient for your opponent (reference to KT's remark on his defeat in the boss fight)

I pay far too much attention to all of the bosses in adventures. :smalltongue:

[Landis963]

Gothik = summon a spectral varient for your opponent (reference to KT's remark on his defeat in the boss fight)


This single minion was the bane of my existence for at least two separate games. I'd get rid of it and get the ghost version, he'd tap the button and oop, there it was again!

[Infernally Clay]

I wish Gluth was in the actual game. D:

[Mando Knight]

Since there seems to be a small amount of confusion:

Heigan = 4 damage to a random enemy

Gothik = summon a spectral varient for your opponent (reference to KT's remark on his defeat in the boss fight)

I pay far too much attention to all of the bosses in adventures. :smalltongue:

You want to transform both, so that KT can't rez them the next turn to continue the pain.

[Landis963]

You want to transform both, so that KT can't rez them the next turn to continue the pain.

You want to transform both before you kill them. I've made that particular mistake before.

[Draken]

This single minion was the bane of my existence for at least two separate games. I'd get rid of it and get the ghost version, he'd tap the button and oop, there it was again!

I just did this to a dude. By the end of the game he had four spectral Gothiks cluttering his board, and that is because he managed to kill another three first.

[Kish]

Four games. I've been Rafaam in all of them. The last time, I pulled off something very appropriate for the Arch-Thief and stole Kel'Thuzad from himself. (I got the Kel'Thuzad card from my hero power--the second, not third, version of my hero power.) Still might well have lost, except the opposing player absolutely would not use anything on a minion that they could use on my face, even when one of my minions was constantly undoing whatever damage they'd done to my taunt wall during their turn. Yes, it's very nice for you that your Massive Runeblade did 20 damage to me; you do realize that choosing to do that rather than kill my doppelganger of you means you're not going to do any further damage to me for the rest of the match?

[Mando Knight]

Well, we now have (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20073614) N'Zoth, the Corruptor.
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/I8KUXKPZSP3R1458754832347.gif

Legendary 10 Mana neutral 5/7 minion.

Battlecry: Summon your Deathrattle minions that died this game.

So! That's pretty deadly!

[moossabi]

Well, we now have (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20073614) N'Zoth, the Corruptor.
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/I8KUXKPZSP3R1458754832347.gif

Legendary 10 Mana neutral 5/7 minion.

Battlecry: Summon your Deathrattle minions that died this game.

So! That's pretty deadly!

If you got Sylvanas and/or Tirion out earlier, all the better! :smallbiggrin:

Also, explorer's hat. That needs to be tested, and if it works we get *gasp* a semi-viable control hunter!

[Mando Knight]

There's also a Rogue Rare card, Undercity Huckster:
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/RBHH5NTE5B451458754832346.gif

Rare 2-mana 2/2 Rogue minion

Deathrattle: Add a random class card to your hand (from your opponent's class).

As a side-note, the class color ribbons on golden cards are too close to each other for Neutral, Rogue, and Priest.

[Legoshrimp]

Well now we know the meta of wild.

[Kish]

They clarified that it will resummon minions who were silenced before they were killed, but not ones who were transformed (say, into sheep) before they were killed, nor ones who were buffed with Deathrattle rather than starting as Deathrattle minions (so no, Explorer's Hat will not interact with this).

[Mando Knight]

From Hearthstone's Twitter (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/713054676564975620): N'Zoth will not minions that acquired Deathrattle (i.e. Explorer's Hat, Soul of the Forest, or Unearthed Raptor), but will raise those that were Silenced.

[The Glyphstone]

Yup, N'zoth does Deathrattles. Called it. :smallcool:

[Legoshrimp]

Hmm my thought is why would it interact differently, you wouldn't expect resurrect to respawn a minion that had buffed stats with those stats? It seems pretty straightforward that card text is the only thing that matters here.

[Chen]

Seems very strong for Mid-range paladin who runs shredder, sludge, Tirion and Sylvanas maybe Creeper. Could be interesting in Rogue Raptor decks too. Wouldn't work for the raptor itself, but that deck has a ton of deathrattle anyways.It is pretty slow though and it stats are a bit lacking for 10 mana (though the 7 health is nice).

[Legoshrimp]

Seems very strong for Mid-range paladin who runs shredder, sludge, Tirion and Sylvanas maybe Creeper. Could be interesting in Rogue Raptor decks too. Wouldn't work for the raptor itself, but that deck has a ton of deathrattle anyways.It is pretty slow though and it stats are a bit lacking for 10 mana (though the 7 health is nice).

It's stats don't really matter very much. A 10 mana spell that had his effect would probably be playable. Summon 1-2 shredder, 1-2 sludge belcher, sylvanas, 1-2 creepers, other things is going to be pretty strong.

[Joran]

Well, we now have (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20073614) N'Zoth, the Corruptor.
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/I8KUXKPZSP3R1458754832347.gif


Well, okay, that makes Wild insane.

Slap that thing into a Warlock Reno deck and it's amazing value. The non-combo version I've seen played has Feugen, Stalagg, Shredder, Sludge Belcher, Sylvanas. Hitting one of those is pretty good value, hitting 2 and it's awesome. Hitting even more? Holy crap.

Deathrattle Rogue gets a really power card as well, even though it doesn't hit Raptors.

[Infernally Clay]

N'zoth is pretty insane. I really like it. It's not a finisher like C'thun but a card that simply generates ridiculous value in a deck built around it.

That's the sort of card you're gonna love topdecking late game when it fills your board with six Deathrattle minions. I mean, even just getting Leper Gnomes and Loot Hoarders back with that is insane value so imagine what happens when you get Sylvanas or whatever...

I'm pretty excited by all this. I wanna know what the other two do now. :O

[Kish]

Yogg-Saron and Y'Sharj. No particular Warcraft-guessable pattern.

[PsyBomb]

Yogg-Saron and Y'Sharj. No particular Warcraft-guessable pattern.

N'zoth is a game-ender when you build the deck right. Going to be bigger in Wild, due to Shredder/Belcher/Feugen+Stalag (and there's your six for the field). Standard will need to see what pops up in this set, so far there are relatively few major power Deathrattle minions other than Sylvanas.

Undercity Grifter is cute, but most likely won't see constructed play. Could be fun in arena, though.

Yogg-Saron will probably have a mind control effect. I'd say end-of-turn take control of a random enemy. Y'Sharj will probably have a Hero corruption effect, possibly a crazy version of Trueheart.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Undercity Huckster is gonna be strong in Arena, I think. More often than not, the card you steal is going to be pretty good, and a 2/2 statline isn't awful, either, especially since you can faceping a 2/3. So it's a 2-for-1 a lot of times. I look at it like "Loot Hoarder, but the card isn't always amazing, but it can't be insta-pinged either".

And, of course, there's always the fun Steal Your Stuff Rogue.

[Gandariel]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that N'zoth looks weak.

10 mana, 5/7, only summons deathrattle minions (most of which are understatted and lack immediate presence)...

Feels too slow. C'thun's effect is way weaker, yes, but at least it DOES end games.

On another note, undercity huckster is amazing. Top tier arena pick, probably even constructed worthy

[Xiander]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that N'zoth looks weak.

10 mana, 5/7, only summons deathrattle minions (most of which are understatted and lack immediate presence)...

Feels too slow. C'thun's effect is way weaker, yes, but at least it DOES end games.

On another note, undercity huckster is amazing. Top tier arena pick, probably even constructed worthy

In standard you might be correct, unless the new set includes som noteworthy deathrattlers.

The way I see it, N'zoth could be used sort of like anyfin. He might not be able to end the game with a charge assault at turn ten, but if you play a strong control deck, deal with all of your opponents threats, and then resummon six of your more serious minions, it is going to win you the game. This does require some strong deathrattlers to exist, but they might well turn up, in this expansion or the next.

[Gandariel]

It's a very very slow win condition. It's probably better than Ysera, i'll say this.

Its viability will depend a lot on Deathrattle guys with Taunt.

If there are some (like belchers) then it might be good (because you actually have a board impact)

[Legoshrimp]

In standard you might be correct, unless the new set includes som noteworthy deathrattlers.

The way I see it, N'zoth could be used sort of like anyfin. He might not be able to end the game with a charge assault at turn ten, but if you play a strong control deck, deal with all of your opponents threats, and then resummon six of your more serious minions, it is going to win you the game. This does require some strong deathrattlers to exist, but they might well turn up, in this expansion or the next.

Honestly I think this guarantees we won't see any really good deathrattle minions this expansion.

[Mando Knight]

And here's (https://twitter.com/ForsenSC2/status/713084605033746432) Forsen's card!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeViqzMWQAEYMQj.png

Renounce Darkness

2 Mana Epic Warlock spell

Replace your Hero Power and Warlock class cards with another class's. The cards cost (1) less.

[Kish]

Huh.

Randomly selected cards, presumably.

A random class, or do all 8 other classes pop up on the screen to choose from when you play that card, I wonder.

Some results...would make more in-game sense than others. (Warlock to mage: Yes. Warlock to shaman: Yes. Warlock to hunter: Huh?)

[Qwertystop]

Well. On the one hand, it makes your everything cheap. On the other hand, it's a random deck with no guarantee of quality.

[moossabi]

And here's (https://twitter.com/ForsenSC2/status/713084605033746432) Forsen's card!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeViqzMWQAEYMQj.png

Renounce Darkness

2 Mana Epic Warlock spell

Replace your Hero Power and Warlock class cards with another class's. The cards cost (1) less.

Seems competent. Sorta. Kinda. Not at all, really. You play a specific class for its cards and/or hero power, why would you immediately kill your deck's specifics (unless you get all of the cards turned into Tirion, but the chances of that happening are worse than getting Deathwing out of Rafaam's hero power in this brawl)

[GAAD]

Okay, okay.
This is a "Golden Monkey" type card - designed to replace your useless removal and draw with threats once you're sure you don't need it anymore.
So Fatigue Warlock.
But, um, there are quite a few problems with this concept.
First, you can't play this card in a deck containing Lord Jaraxxus. Either he gets removed from your deck, or you replace the OP hero power with a random basic one. Not good.
Second, Warlock decks are not good at Fatigue. The whole point is drawing cards, and Warlocks get to fatigue faster than any other deck barring Miracle Rogue with a good draw.
Third, the effect is completely random - unlike Monkey which gives you threats guaranteed, this card could get you more removal and card draw instead. Which is horrible, since by playing this card you are saying "I don't want any removal or card draw any more".

But still, if I get one I am TOTALLY playing it in a deck and having fun losing games on my Twitch. It's just a hilarious concept.

[ShinyRocks]

Seems competent. Sorta. Kinda. Not at all, really. You play a specific class for its cards and/or hero power, why would you immediately kill your deck's specifics (unless you get all of the cards turned into Tirion, but the chances of that happening are worse than getting Deathwing out of Rafaam's hero power in this brawl)

If the cards are of the same cost (I know it doesn't say that) and you can sort of vaguely direct it, it would be interesting. Otherwise, fun garbage.

The card art is gorgeous though.

[Joran]

Okay, okay.
This is a "Golden Monkey" type card - designed to replace your useless removal and draw with threats once you're sure you don't need it anymore.
So Fatigue Warlock.
But, um, there are quite a few problems with this concept.
First, you can't play this card in a deck containing Lord Jaraxxus. Either he gets removed from your deck, or you replace the OP hero power with a random basic one. Not good.
Second, Warlock decks are not good at Fatigue. The whole point is drawing cards, and Warlocks get to fatigue faster than any other deck barring Miracle Rogue with a good draw.
Third, the effect is completely random - unlike Monkey which gives you threats guaranteed, this card could get you more removal and card draw instead. Which is horrible, since by playing this card you are saying "I don't want any removal or card draw any more".

But still, if I get one I am TOTALLY playing it in a deck and having fun losing games on my Twitch. It's just a hilarious concept.

Well, you could put it in Zoo. Stack it with a lot of early game and then use this card as a "Break in case of emergency" card and turn all your Flame Imps, Voidwalkers, and Wrathguards into hopefully late game or direct damage. I doubt it'll be good, but it could be hilarious.

I like that it encourages Warlocks to put more Warlock cards into their deck.

[Legoshrimp]

Well, you could put it in Zoo. Stack it with a lot of early game and then use this card as a "Break in case of emergency" card and turn all your Flame Imps, Voidwalkers, and Wrathguards into hopefully late game or direct damage. I doubt it'll be good, but it could be hilarious.

I like that it encourages Warlocks to put more Warlock cards into their deck.

Put more warlock cards in your deck!... because they suck and you want to switch them with a RANDOM class's cards.

[Joran]

Put more warlock cards in your deck!... because they suck and you want to switch them with a RANDOM class's cards.

You're just not skilled enough. Only truly skilled Hearthstone players can turn that Succubus into a Tirion! ;)

I haven't sat down and checked, but it's always felt like Warlocks relied mostly on overpowered neutral minions and not their own, subpar minions, compared to other classes.

[Zevox]

Well, we now have (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20073614) N'Zoth, the Corruptor.
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/I8KUXKPZSP3R1458754832347.gif

Legendary 10 Mana neutral 5/7 minion.

Battlecry: Summon your Deathrattle minions that died this game.

So! That's pretty deadly!
Wow, that is going to be a great card! ...in Wild, because almost all of the good deathrattles are rotating out with Naxx and GvG.

In Standard, unless we get some better new ones than we've seen thus far, I don't think it sees play. Yes, Sylvanas is still around, and Paladin has Tirion, and Cairne might have a chance to make a comeback, but I don't think a few legendaries will make this guy work, since you only get one of each in your deck, greatly reducing the odds of dropping them before you want to play him. And honestly, I'm not completely sure just dropping him to bring back one of those would be enough - okay, maybe Tirion, but Sylvanas or Cairne are iffier.


There's also a Rogue Rare card, Undercity Huckster:
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/RBHH5NTE5B451458754832346.gif

Rare 2-mana 2/2 Rogue minion

Deathrattle: Add a random class card to your hand (from your opponent's class).

As a side-note, the class color ribbons on golden cards are too close to each other for Neutral, Rogue, and Priest.
Huh, so it's worse Dark Peddler in Rogue. Hm, might be good enough. Probably good for arena, at least.


And here's (https://twitter.com/ForsenSC2/status/713084605033746432) Forsen's card!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeViqzMWQAEYMQj.png

Renounce Darkness

2 Mana Epic Warlock spell

Replace your Hero Power and Warlock class cards with another class's. The cards cost (1) less.
Huh. Well, I think it's safe to say that card is either very good or very bad... I'm just not sure which. Depends greatly on whether the 1-mana cost reduction can make up for the cards and hero power being random. And also on how the deck you build around it performs when you don't draw it. I'll be curious to see if it works out, but I think it'll need experimenting before anyone can be sure one way or the other.

[PsyBomb]

We can't really know how good Renounce will be until we know the swap mechanics. If it's pure random, it sucks but might make for some Trolden moments

[Destro_Yersul]

I think Renounce is hilarious, but likely bad. Class cards tend to be more powerful than neutral cards, but a lot of them are still pretty awful even at a reduced mana cost.

Undercity Huckster is probably pretty good. Dark Peddler is good, after all, and this card is comparable. It gives you a class card, which is nice, of your opponent's class, which is possibly anti-synergy, but it can be higher cost than 1, which is good, but it's random, which is bad. I'm interested to try this one out. I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

N'zoth is quite powerful in the right meta. He's slow, and his stats aren't great, but I'd peg him as being better than Varian Wrynn. Varian didn't get played much, but I think N'zoth has a few points that make him a more appealing choice. 1: the stuff he summons doesn't deplete your deck, since it relies on stuff that's died. 2: Deathrattle cards don't rely on battlecries to be good. Sometimes Varian would summon Shieldmaiden or Taskmaster and it sucked because you would rather draw those, whereas you're pretty much always happy to have Sludge Belcher or Shredder on board. Those are rotating out, but there could still be some good deathrattles in the coming set.

[Rodin]

Renounce could be quite decent in Arena. Warlock is kind of an iffy class in Arena in the first place, and ditching that class for a better one could be quite beneficial.

Of course, it could also royally screw your curve, give you Warrior, and make all your Warrior cards into weapons boosters while giving you no actual weapons.

It really depends on if they let you pick the class, but somehow I'm thinking it'll be random.

[Mando Knight]

It doesn't say "Discover a new class", so there's about a 98% percent chance it's totally random.

[Destro_Yersul]

In other news, I've played the brawl a few more times, and have found out that Kel'thuzad has basically no AOE, while Rafaam has tons. So Kel has stronger stuff, but if he loses board control he loses the game because he has really no way to get it back. On the other hand, sometimes he gets a never-ending parade of Gothik the Harvester, and then Rafaam just loses. It's very swingy.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

In other news, I've played the brawl a few more times, and have found out that Kel'thuzad has basically no AOE, while Rafaam has tons. So Kel has stronger stuff, but if he loses board control he loses the game because he has really no way to get it back. On the other hand, sometimes he gets a never-ending parade of Gothik the Harvester, and then Rafaam just loses. It's very swingy.
Basically, I've found that KT needs to find an early advantage and then hammer it hard.

That said, Rafaam does have some nice reset buttons, such as the "transform into a Pit Snake" and the Naga lady.

[Temotei]

I faced a Rafaam today who played Finley and got a mage hero power. He didn't surrender for three turns! I was surprised.

[Mr.Moron]

I've been honestly finding it very easy to win as KT and hard to with as Rafaam. However sometimes the game just gives you what you need:

http://i.imgur.com/CxcOIF6.jpg?1

[turbo164]

Huckster looks like a slightly beefier but randomer Loot Hoarder; Burgle tends to be a bit worse than Arcane Intellect (at least in Constructed, where your deck is hopefully better than "random"), but the extra toughness helps a bit.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Huckster looks like a slightly beefier but randomer Loot Hoarder; Burgle tends to be a bit worse than Arcane Intellect (at least in Constructed, where your deck is hopefully better than "random"), but the extra toughness helps a bit.
Yeah, that's basically how I'm valuating it. The move from 1 health to 2 health makes a huge amount of difference given how many classes have pings (and even Warlock has Mortal Coil), and I think that's enough to offset the randomness.

[moossabi]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/brood-of-nzoth-210x285.png
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/image-2-210x300.png

I like the brood guy, but I'm not so sure that the legendary is all that great.

[Hamste]

The brood is so cute. Might be hard to pull off even with zoo but still that cuteness.

[The Glyphstone]

Brood is adorable.

[Joran]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/brood-of-nzoth-210x285.png
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/image-2-210x300.png

I like the brood guy, but I'm not so sure that the legendary is all that great.

Boogeymonster is terrible, as a playable card. Mana intense creatures which are big balls of stats never see play in Constructed, because of how easy they are to remove or to ignore. You're paying 2 mana above a Boulderfist Ogre for growth that's not consistent. I'd rather have Gruul in the 8 mana spot (and he's not good), and an Ogre or even a Kvaldi Raider in Arena.

However, if Boogeymonster popped out of a Paletress or a Sneed's, it's not... bad?

The Brood Of N'zoth isn't good, but could find play in arena. However, the card art is adorable!

[Gandariel]

Boogie monster looks extremely bad.

Like, really really really bad.

It's straight up a worse Gruul (aside from BGH-able on the first turn, i suppose).

There is no reason why they would ever, ever print this card...

unless....

You heard it here first!
I speculate they're gonna print cards like "Give this minion the Foe Reaper 4000 effect" (cleave)
OR effects like "Make this minion fight this other minion"

Either that, or they just decided to fill their "bad legendary" quota.


Brood is cute. *MIGHT* work in Zoo or token decks, but i doubt it

[BRC]

Boogeymonster is terrible, as a playable card. Mana intense creatures which are big balls of stats never see play in Constructed, because of how easy they are to remove or to ignore. You're pay 2 mana above a Boulderfist Ogre for growth that's not consistent. I'd rather have Gruul in the 8 mana spot (and he's not good), and an Ogre or even a Kvaldi Raider in Arena.

However, if Boogeymonster popped out of a Paletress or a Sneed's, it's not... bad?

The Brood Of N'zoth isn't good, but could find play in arena. However, the card art is adorable!

I think the idea behind Brood is that it's a bit like a Nerubian egg in that it discourages Board clears like Consecrate. It's got 2 health, which means most board-wipe spells kill it, buffing anything left standing on your side of the field. Unlike an Egg, you get nothing if the board clear actually wipes your board.

Unlike Egg, it costs three mana, so you can't coin it out turn 1, then play a Sunfury turn 2, and there is substantially less chance of your opponent leaving it alive until you can set up to support it. Egg was basically an Antitaunt.

[PsyBomb]

Brood, I'm looking at kinda like a generic Competitive Spirit. Just ram it into something to trigger. Mediocre, but might see use in token or zoo decks.

Boogeymonster just sucks. Nothing it can do that you can't already do cheaper with other things (such as Kvaldir Raider)

[Kish]

Boogie monster looks extremely bad.

Like, really really really bad.

It's straight up a worse Gruul (aside from BGH-able on the first turn, i suppose).
They may nerf Gruul, you know.

[Dalinale]

The Brood is absolutely adorable and has a competent effect; the Boogyman looks like it's going to be regulated to really sucky Arena choices and the Old Shredder's deathrattle effect. If one was going to go about saving it, for it's cost, you would probably have to slap Stealth on it for it and reduce it's health a little.

Also, new Rogue legendary! It's Xaril, the Poisoned Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/editpost.php?p=20585238&do=editpost); a decent surprise, as I expected the Twin Emperors to be the logical Rogue legendaries.

I'd say it looks pretty good; a weak body, of course, but it gives cards that are equivalent to Spare Parts. Most of the poisons have value, especially in a Rogue deck (hello, Bloodthisle), and, because of it's Deathrattle, throwing a Raptor down to get more out of it could be a good option.

[ChaosOS]

Boogeymonster is generic filler that improves the average sneeds/paletress result (Big monster w/o being BGHable) while reducing the power of Forbidden Shaping. Compare it to Skeleton Knight

[Zevox]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/brood-of-nzoth-210x285.png
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/image-2-210x300.png

I like the brood guy, but I'm not so sure that the legendary is all that great.
People have already said what I wanted to about The Boogeymonster: it's worse Gruul. Throw it in the dustbin.

Brood though... eh, it's interesting, but cards that require a significant board presence to be good don't tend to work out, and the fact that Muster, Imp-losion, and an awful lot of the good "deathrattle: drop another minion" cards are leaving standard likely makes it even less good than it looks at first glance. So I'm going to say I don't expect much from it.


They may nerf Gruul, you know.
What would be the point? :smallconfused:

[The Glyphstone]

Here's a functional link to the new Legendary:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1233-rogue-legendary-card-reveal-xaril-poisoned-mind

Rogue 'Spare Parts' generator.

[BRC]

Here's a functional link to the new Legendary:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1233-rogue-legendary-card-reveal-xaril-poisoned-mind

Rogue 'Spare Parts' generator.

Looks Solid.

What are people's thoughts on Star War(rior)s: Tentacles For Arms.

[PsyBomb]

Not sure if I like Xaril, but it's a good way to get a couple of Combo activators. Most of those are at least decent with a couple of good ones.

[The Glyphstone]

5 mana to perpetually have a 2/2 weapon. Seems too small for the decks that will be slow enough to run it, and be willing to invest 5 mana in refreshing it every other turn.

[Anarion]

I was just the beneficiary of one of the worst bad luck streaks that I've seen.

Turn 1: He's a paladin, I"m a mage, we both pass.
Turn 2: My mad bomber kills his 2 health 2-drop
Turn 3: His mad bomber shoots himself in the face 3 time, I coin fallen hero and kill his bomber.
Turn 4: He plays piloted shredder, I run my bomber into it and the resulting 1/1 gets fireblasted.

Then he conceded after seeing the universe hated him.


Here's a functional link to the new Legendary:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1233-rogue-legendary-card-reveal-xaril-poisoned-mind

Rogue 'Spare Parts' generator.

I like that card. They stepped it up just a bit from spare parts: 2 damage for 1 and +3 attack for 1, as examples, are legit cards that can really swing a game.

[Xefas]

What are people's thoughts on Star War(rior)s: Tentacles For Arms.

If it alters your hero's attack voice-over to be all spooky and echoey, then it's top tier.

If not, it's overpriced trash.

[Zevox]

Here's a functional link to the new Legendary:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1233-rogue-legendary-card-reveal-xaril-poisoned-mind

Rogue 'Spare Parts' generator.
Eh... those are awfully weak stats for the mana cost. Most of the extra cards it generates are better than Spare Parts (Fadeleaf Toxin is exactly Cloaking Field, though), but I'm not sure it's by enough to justify that body.

I don't know, maybe it'll work out somehow, but I see it as iffy at best on first glance.

[Anarion]

Eh... those are awfully weak stats for the mana cost. Most of the extra cards it generates are better than Spare Parts (Fadeleaf Toxin is exactly Cloaking Field, though), but I'm not sure it's by enough to justify that body.

I don't know, maybe it'll work out somehow, but I see it as iffy at best on first glance.

Ensures combo activation, provides more than a card's worth of value, stats distributed so it trades up rather than down, and can give you a huge Van Cleef really early if you're running that.

[PsyBomb]

That weapon is SO dust... I can't imagine a situation where you would actually play it. Good at 3 mana, maybe if it cost 4, but NOT at 5. 2/2 is just pathetic at that point.

[GAAD]

It's a way for Warrior to deal with Pally's and Shaman's hero powers (in absence of Justicar). I can dig it.

[Dalinale]

Eh... those are awfully weak stats for the mana cost. Most of the extra cards it generates are better than Spare Parts (Fadeleaf Toxin is exactly Cloaking Field, though), but I'm not sure it's by enough to justify that body.

I don't know, maybe it'll work out somehow, but I see it as iffy at best on first glance.

I would imagine that the removal of Spare Parts from Standard will have a effect on various Rogue decks, given the general usefulness of free one-mana spells, so (as a guess) I wouldn't be surprised if Rogue gets more cards that gives random Toxins as a sort of concession. As a whole, though, I see it as a four-mana card that will likely give you two useful one-mana cards back, as no one will likely want to spend a Silence effect on it, which makes it a bit better.

[Mando Knight]

That weapon is SO dust... I can't imagine a situation where you would actually play it. Good at 3 mana, maybe if it cost 4, but NOT at 5. 2/2 is just pathetic at that point.

There are niche cases where it's useful. Warrior should never run into those niche cases.

[Zevox]

What's this weapon you guys are talking about? :smallconfused:


Ensures combo activation, provides more than a card's worth of value, stats distributed so it trades up rather than down, and can give you a huge Van Cleef really early if you're running that.
Combo activation, sure, but the rest of that is either false or doubftul. That card will never trade up, only down, because those stats are too weak to trade up - except maybe if your opponent for some reason has to let you hit an Ethereal Conjurer with it, but that'll happen less than once in a blue moon. Provides more than a card's worth of value? I think it might have a hard time providing more value than a good 4-mana card does, honestly. The body certainly doesn't give nearly as much, and some of the poisons are iffy, such as the stealth. As for Van Cleef, by the time you play this you're already entering the mid-game, so "early" is right out anyway. The poisons can help with him, sure, but so what? So could Spare Parts, but you never saw that become a thing.


I would imagine that the removal of Spare Parts from Standard will have a effect on various Rogue decks, given the general usefulness of free one-mana spells, so (as a guess) I wouldn't be surprised if Rogue gets more cards that gives random Toxins as a sort of concession.
I don't see how the removal of Spare Parts will affect Rogue in any way. Mech Rogue was never competitive, and no other Rogue ever ran anything that gave Spare Parts. The big hit to Rogue in Standard is the loss of Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, the key card of the class' only competitive deck.

[PsyBomb]

There are niche cases where it's useful. Warrior should never run into those niche cases.

For a second, before my brain caught up, I thought it was a generic weapon. In THAT case, it would be cool. Just... bleh.

@Zevox: the same link as that legendary has a 2/2 warrior weapon for 5 with deathrattle to return to hand.

[Zevox]

@Zevox: the same link as that legendary has a 2/2 warrior weapon for 5 with deathrattle to return to hand.
Oh. I completely did not notice.

Huh. Well, it's an interesting card, but yeah, 5 mana? Entirely too much, most likely. Especially since Warrior got that new 1-mana minion that gives them a "ping" weapon if they need it.

[Dalinale]

I don't see how the removal of Spare Parts will affect Rogue in any way. Mech Rogue was never competitive, and no other Rogue ever ran anything that gave Spare Parts. The big hit to Rogue in Standard is the loss of Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, the key card of the class' only competitive deck.

Rogue is probably in a worse position out of all the classes when it comes to creating a competitive deck; accordingly, any possible tool that could allow it to pull off a decent play should be looked at. In this case, that's providing objectively useful one-mana cards that could be used to set up a Combo. In this case, most of the Toxins look better or are genuinely superior to Spare Parts, and the worst has the same effect as one. In addition, while Xaril's body is poor, it's a four-drop that gives two mana's worth of useful, non-trashy cards, unless someone want's to silence a creature with two health, which is really quite unlikely. A four-mana card with the body of a two-mana card that could probably give you two mana worth of cards isn't all that bad, all said and done.

[Zevox]

Rogue is probably in a worse position out of all the classes when it comes to creating a competitive deck; accordingly, any possible tool that could allow it to pull off a decent play should be looked at. In this case, that's providing objectively useful one-mana cards that could be used to set up a Combo. In this case, most of the Toxins look better or are genuinely superior to Spare Parts, and the worst has the same effect as one. In addition, while Xaril's body is poor, it's a four-drop that gives two mana's worth of useful, non-trashy cards, unless someone want's to silence a creature with two health, which is really quite unlikely. A four-mana card with the body of a two-mana card that could probably give you two mana worth of cards isn't all that bad, all said and done.
Except for the inherent tempo loss in such a card - you're playing a weak body to get cards that may or may not be useful later, similar to Jeweled Scarab, a card that only sees play in Reno decks. Only the poisons this gives you are probably typically less useful than what you'll often get from Jeweled Scarab. Plus there's the fact that many of the poisons it gives you are situational (stealth, +attack, worse shadowstep), and one is just a cantrip.

Or how about the fact that there's no evident workable deck archetype for Rogue that this would fit into? Historically, Rogue has pulled off three deck types: aggro (Cancer, very early Rogues from the beta), tempo, and combo (Miracle, Oil). This fits none of those, instead looking like it belongs in a more control, value-oriented deck, which Rogue has never pulled off - and that despite other good cards that should support such an archetype being made, such as Trade Prince Gallywix. And I really don't see how this card could be the one to make a Control Rogue work.

Honestly, while I'm not certain enough about it to say it won't see any play or is just a straight-up bad card, I don't see any reason for optimism on this one.

[Anarion]

What's this weapon you guys are talking about? :smallconfused:


Combo activation, sure, but the rest of that is either false or doubftul. That card will never trade up, only down, because those stats are too weak to trade up - except maybe if your opponent for some reason has to let you hit an Ethereal Conjurer with it, but that'll happen less than once in a blue moon. Provides more than a card's worth of value? I think it might have a hard time providing more value than a good 4-mana card does, honestly. The body certainly doesn't give nearly as much, and some of the poisons are iffy, such as the stealth. As for Van Cleef, by the time you play this you're already entering the mid-game, so "early" is right out anyway. The poisons can help with him, sure, but so what? So could Spare Parts, but you never saw that become a thing.


You have to look at it in context of its alternatives. Rogue has few 4 drops. Many aren't run at all. Master of disguise, for example. Rogue has tomb pillager on the slot, but it's slow and doesn't give you the combo ability until it dies. Mech yeti and piloted shredder are rotating out. So here we have a guy who has synergy with Rogue. He's got some randomness, but the majority of his cards are legit 1 mana cards (priest occasionally runs smite, for example). So in one card you get a raptor and two cheap spells. That's quite strong because it creates card advantage for yiu in a way that also synergizes with the class overall.

[Zevox]

You have to look at it in context of its alternatives. Rogue has few 4 drops. Many aren't run at all. Master of disguise, for example. Rogue has tomb pillager on the slot, but it's slow and doesn't give you the combo ability until it dies. Mech yeti and piloted shredder are rotating out. So here we have a guy who has synergy with Rogue. He's got some randomness, but the majority of his cards are legit 1 mana cards (priest occasionally runs smite, for example). So in one card you get a raptor and two cheap spells. That's quite strong because it creates card advantage for yiu in a way that also synergizes with the class overall.
4-drops aren't what Rogue's lacking by any means. Tomb Pillager is good, Violet Teacher synergizes with Rogue's many good cheap spells, and they can always run good neutral minions like Shredder (or perhaps Yeti once again after that's gone) or Defender of Argus, depending on what the deck style wants.

What exactly Rogue's lacking is kind of hard to say, but it needs something that makes a deck with a gameplan that doesn't revolve around Oil/Flurry combos for sudden killing bursts work, since that's going away and was the one working deck the class had. When I look at this card, I certainly don't see it as doing anything of that sort. Moreover, I don't see it fitting into any of the general deck archetypes Rogue has shown the potential to pull off in the past - you don't want it in an aggro deck because it's way too slow and a weak body for the cost, you don't want it in a tempo deck because it's inherently poor for tempo, and I don't see how a Miracle or Oil style combo deck would consider it better to have than the cards they've traditionally used. That leaves me thinking that even if it's better than it looks to me at first glance, it most likely has no niche to fit into anyway.

[Anarion]

4-drops aren't what Rogue's lacking by any means. Tomb Pillager is good, Violet Teacher synergizes with Rogue's many good cheap spells, and they can always run good neutral minions like Shredder (or perhaps Yeti once again after that's gone) or Defender of Argus, depending on what the deck style wants.


Compared to Tomb Pillager, you give up +2/+2 and the deathrattle coin for two 1-cost cards that are about equivalent to smite (don't base the judgment on the stealth one, the others are considerably better). If you're running a lot of stuff with combo, that might be a good deal, and it's also more resistant to removal.

Compared to Violet Teacher, you're giving up 3 health and a variable effect for the 2 cards, though the two of them synergize well so could both be run.

Shredder is leaving, we can't count it. I'm not evaluating this card for wild, only for standard. For yeti, you give up +1/+3 for the two spells, which I suspect is worthwhile.

Argus might actually be the best comparison. Stats are the same total, but switched, and instead of +2/+2 and taunt that requires bodies on board, you get two 1-mana spells, many of which are better with bodies on board. They're about equivalent with the legendary again being more synergistic with other Rogue cards and more resistant to removal, but a bit slower if you already have an established board.



What exactly Rogue's lacking is kind of hard to say, but it needs something that makes a deck with a gameplan that doesn't revolve around Oil/Flurry combos for sudden killing bursts work, since that's going away and was the one working deck the class had. When I look at this card, I certainly don't see it as doing anything of that sort. Moreover, I don't see it fitting into any of the general deck archetypes Rogue has shown the potential to pull off in the past - you don't want it in an aggro deck because it's way too slow and a weak body for the cost, you don't want it in a tempo deck because it's inherently poor for tempo, and I don't see how a Miracle or Oil style combo deck would consider it better to have than the cards they've traditionally used. That leaves me thinking that even if it's better than it looks to me at first glance, it most likely has no niche to fit into anyway.

This is really hard to predict. We still don't know the majority of the new set, so we can't say with any surety what sorts of cards Rogue will base its decks around. I would guess that the entire standard format will slow down compared to how it is now, though. Mechs are generally aggro and they're going away, and on top of that the cards we have seen tend to focus on big expensive minions and buffing other cards, which suggests to me that they're trying to slow the format down and let people build up to big cool things.

In that context, the rogue legendary is better. It's absolutely true that if you're going to die on turn 5, spending turn 4 playing a 3/2 that does nothing when it hits the board isn't such a hot idea, and the card would suck in that context. It needs enough defense around it that you can play the 3/2 and get something out of that body as well as take advantage of the spells you'll get. Which means it does best in a slower deck that has good combo cards and maybe some card draw to keep itself running while playing multiple cards over several turns. So, it sounds like it would be useful if control rogue becomes a thing.

[Legoshrimp]

4-drops aren't what Rogue's lacking by any means. Tomb Pillager is good, Violet Teacher synergizes with Rogue's many good cheap spells, and they can always run good neutral minions like Shredder (or perhaps Yeti once again after that's gone) or Defender of Argus, depending on what the deck style wants.

What exactly Rogue's lacking is kind of hard to say, but it needs something that makes a deck with a gameplan that doesn't revolve around Oil/Flurry combos for sudden killing bursts work, since that's going away and was the one working deck the class had. When I look at this card, I certainly don't see it as doing anything of that sort. Moreover, I don't see it fitting into any of the general deck archetypes Rogue has shown the potential to pull off in the past - you don't want it in an aggro deck because it's way too slow and a weak body for the cost, you don't want it in a tempo deck because it's inherently poor for tempo, and I don't see how a Miracle or Oil style combo deck would consider it better to have than the cards they've traditionally used. That leaves me thinking that even if it's better than it looks to me at first glance, it most likely has no niche to fit into anyway.

How does it not fit into miracle rogue? The only cards miracle rogue doesn't use is shadowstep. Arguably 1 mana draw a card, but oftentimes you use fan just to draw a card.
I am not sure it is going to be quite good enough, but it has a decent amount of synergy with miracle. I am expecting it to be run just because it gives extra reach, and helps with drawing terribly from gadgetzan by adding more cheap spells. Like a lot of the time it will give you what works as a conceal, a slightly worse cold blood, or a worse eviscerate. The draw 1 card doesn't have as clear a compairison, it is better then fan or shiv if they are used for draw. It isn't a bad card for miracle though. Shadowstep is also decent it gives a potential to add more burst/value. Not great, but useful.

[Zevox]

Compared to Tomb Pillager, you give up +2/+2 and the deathrattle coin for two 1-cost cards that are about equivalent to smite (don't base the judgment on the stealth one, the others are considerably better). If you're running a lot of stuff with combo, that might be a good deal, and it's also more resistant to removal.

Compared to Violet Teacher, you're giving up 3 health and a variable effect for the 2 cards, though the two of them synergize well so could both be run.

Shredder is leaving, we can't count it. I'm not evaluating this card for wild, only for standard. For yeti, you give up +1/+3 for the two spells, which I suspect is worthwhile.

Argus might actually be the best comparison. Stats are the same total, but switched, and instead of +2/+2 and taunt that requires bodies on board, you get two 1-mana spells, many of which are better with bodies on board. They're about equivalent with the legendary again being more synergistic with other Rogue cards and more resistant to removal, but a bit slower if you already have an established board.
I suppose we're simply in agree to disagree territory. My impression at a first glance is that this card is not as good as any of those - giving up the stats and abilities of those cards for two random 1-mana cards of middling at best quality that tend to be pretty situational and a body that belongs on a minion 2 mana cheaper does not look to me like a good deal at first glance. While I'm willing to admit I could be wrong and it might squeak in and find a niche in some not-currently-predictable Rogue deck, I cannot see a reason for optimism about that at this point.


This is really hard to predict. We still don't know the majority of the new set, so we can't say with any surety what sorts of cards Rogue will base its decks around. I would guess that the entire standard format will slow down compared to how it is now, though. Mechs are generally aggro and they're going away, and on top of that the cards we have seen tend to focus on big expensive minions and buffing other cards, which suggests to me that they're trying to slow the format down and let people build up to big cool things.
I fear that won't be the case at all, honestly. Mech decks tended to be aggro, sure - but mech decks have been largely out of the meta for a while. Mech Mage has been largely displaced by Tempo Mage, Mech Shaman only had a relatively brief period of being a thing and Shaman has moved on to a different type of Face deck, and the one mech that saw widespread play, Piloted Shredder, tended to be in midrange decks more than any other type. Meanwhile, a lot of cards that are very useful to slow Control decks are leaving: Zombie Chow, Antique Healbot, Sludge Belcher, Doctor Boom, Death's Bite, and Shieldmaiden, just to name what comes to mind quickly. I fear their loss will have a greater effect on the speed of the meta than the removal of mechs, which haven't been having a huge effect on the meta for a while.


So, it sounds like it would be useful if control rogue becomes a thing.
And speaking as someone who has tried quite a few times to make a Control Rogue work, I have serious doubts that it will. It definitely needs better new cards than this one for that to happen, of that I'm very confident.


How does it not fit into miracle rogue?
Because Miracle Rogue has been extinct since the nerf to Gadgetzan Auctioneer, and there's not really any reason I can see for that to change. I was citing Miracle Rogue as an example of the combo style of deck that Rogue has shown it can be good at - I'd personally expect any future version of such a deck to bear more resemblance to Oil Rogue than Miracle, since Oil Rogue hasn't had key cards nerfed, it's just lost its namesake combo piece.

[Yana]

I can see why people consider KT to be far superior in this brawl. I played one minion this match and one minion only. Heigan.

I had a full board of them by then end thanks to Duplicate.

[ChaosOS]

Miracle has made a resurgence with Tomb Pillager, the guaranteed coin going into the mid-late game makes a really big difference for trying to go off with Gadgetzan as you can now go t6: Gadgetzan coin conceal, which even draws a card relative to the previous t6: Gadgetzan conceal

[Zevox]

I can see why people consider KT to be far superior in this brawl. I played one minion this match and one minion only. Heigan.

I had a full board of them by then end thanks to Duplicate.
Yeah, if KT draws Heigan or Gothik early, it's extremely hard for Rafaam to win, since all KT has to do is only play them and just start resurrecting them ad infinitum. Rafaam absolutely needs the "transform into a snake" card to avoid that, unless he can actually wait until turn 6 and Entomb them without losing so much tempo as to just lose from there, which I don't think I've seen happen yet.

Barring that though, Rafaam has a fairer chance. KT's one really overpowering late-game card is Noth the Plaguebringer, and only if gets some good trades the turn it comes down, while Rafaam's hero power steadily becomes better and KT's steadily becomes worse as the game goes on. It's an interesting dynamic. Unfortunately, Rafaam is pretty reliant on certain cards to win no matter what, though - KT can just win by curving out if Rafaam doesn't draw enough of his AoE.

Edit: On another note, does anybody else feel that some of the legendary "boss" minions from the Brawl could be actual cards without being OP? Patchwerk comes to mind, for example. The genie one from Rafaam's deck possibly too. Maybe even miss "change all other minions into random minions of the same cost," though that's a bit iffier to me - hard to tell how good she'd be.

[ShinyRocks]

Edit: On another note, does anybody else feel that some of the legendary "boss" minions from the Brawl could be actual cards without being OP? Patchwerk comes to mind, for example. The genie one from Rafaam's deck possibly too. Maybe even miss "change all other minions into random minions of the same cost," though that's a bit iffier to me - hard to tell how good she'd be.

I guess in a deck of minions who pay for their battlecries with poor stats, she could be interesting. Something like drop Novice Engineer, draw a card, turn her into a Knife Juggler. Turn Stormpike Commando into, I dunno ... Mukla's Champion. Luck reliant and slow, but could have some crazy swings.

[Infernally Clay]

Yeah, quite a few are surprisingly balanced. I'd love to see Gluth in normal decks. It leans towards slightly too strong but it only summons weak cards at the end of your turn, so it's not quite overpowered either.

A slightly more expensive Heigan would be great too. Even Razuvious wouldn't be that terrible if the sword lost the double hero damage effect because then you're just paying eight mana for a 3/3 and an Arcanite Reaper.

[Zevox]

Yeah, quite a few are surprisingly balanced. I'd love to see Gluth in normal decks. It leans towards slightly too strong but it only summons weak cards at the end of your turn, so it's not quite overpowered either.

A slightly more expensive Heigan would be great too. Even Razuvious wouldn't be that terrible if the sword lost the double hero damage effect because then you're just paying eight mana for a 3/3 and an Arcanite Reaper.
I think Gluth's cost would have to go up by at least 1 to be balanced. Compare him to Murloc Knight, which was quite good until LoE introduced Tinyfin and Sir Finley and watered down his pool of spawns, and I think you'll find he's at least as good most of the time but also doesn't require using hero power to activate.

I think I might want Razuvious to get a slight buff to his own stats if the weapon loses that effect - which it probably should, since normal heroes only have 30 hp anyway - but yeah, make a 4/4 or something and he'd probably be fine.