[AD&D] Rules questions (my players stay out, I don't want you knowing too much)

[Thelas]

Just answer whatever you can, please. (The module is 2nd ed, but we're playing OSRIC and I was told that they're close enough to not matter).
A poison mentions "Str 30/2d6". What does that mean? I assume not the same as in 3.5, but...
A sword is mentioned as a sword +1, +3 vs. lycanthropes and shape changers that is "treated as a normal weapon against vampires". Does this mean a sword +1 against them, a masterwork sword (are those even in AD&D?), or as a mundane sword?
Just as a reminder: please confirm that 2 ep = 1 gp, and that 5 sp = 1 ep.
What exactly is ML, anyways?
"SD +1 needed to hit" means "at least a +1 magical weapon needed to inflict damage upon", right?
What does "MR special" mean?
The module says "a magical dagger +2, Vampire Slayer. When this special dagger strikes a vampire, its blade will turn to wood." Is this a good thing, and if so, how? If not, is it some sort of curse or something?
What are the different classes of poison?
How do you calculate THAC0 based off of 1st ed/OSRIC tables?
Explain "Ravenloft powers check"s, "Horror checks", and all similar things... (Why does WotC publish these modules for free on their site with no explanations?)
How do you run combats with 180 skellies or ridiculous numbers like that? I definitely don't have that many minis, that's for sure.
I know Ravenloft is supposed to terrify, confuse, and play on the players; fears (*evil DM laugh*), but this module's confusing me. Any help?
What is the difference between 'goblins' and 'goblyns'?
"The land will do all that it can to..." Sentient land? Did I fail my Knowledge(AD&D Campaign Setting) check? [And yes, I know they didn't have those back in AD&D days]. Can someone give me a +10 circumstance bonus and a retry on the check? (As in, can I have useful information?)
Where can I find stats for magic items not statted out in the module?
"Int Very" means "Very High Int", right?
--------
And if you've run the module (Feast of Goblyns, available on the 1e/2e downloads section of WotC stuff), what should the APL be, any tips for a new (at least to AD&D) DM, and what magic items should the PCs get?
[I'm planning to run this as a one-shot, possibly continuing if it's liked.]
(Just answer whatever questions you can, of course).

[Siosilvar]

A sword is mentioned as a sword +1, +3 vs. lycanthropes and shape changers that is "treated as a normal weapon against vampires". Does this mean a sword +1 against them, a masterwork sword (are those even in AD&D?), or as a mundane sword? Mundane.

Just as a reminder: please confirm that 2 ep = 1 gp, and that 5 sp = 1 ep. 10 sp = 1 ep, but yes.

"SD +1 needed to hit" means "at least a +1 magical weapon needed to inflict damage upon", right? Yes.

What does "MR special" mean? Magic Resistance: Special.

The module says "a magical dagger +2, Vampire Slayer. When this special dagger strikes a vampire, its blade will turn to wood." Is this a good thing, and if so, how? If not, is it some sort of curse or something? I'd assume it's good, because a wooden stake through the heart will kill a vampire.

How do you calculate THAC0 based off of 1st ed/OSRIC tables? You grab the To-Hit number listed to hit AC0.

How do you run combats with 180 skellies or ridiculous numbers like that? I definitely don't have that many minis, that's for sure. About 10 at a time.

Where can I find stats for magic items not statted out in the module? Er... given that it's OSRIC, I assume you don't have a DMG, so I'm not sure...

"Int Very" means "Very High Int", right? Yes. The descriptors roughly translate to numbers, but really it's a description of how you play the monster.

10characters

[Matthew]

Just answer whatever you can, please. (The module is 2nd ed, but we're playing OSRIC and I was told that they're close enough to not matter).

Correct.

Q. A poison mentions "Str 30/2d6". What does that mean? I assume not the same as in 3.5, but...
A. Its the strength of damage. failed save is 30 HP, passed save is 2d6.

Q. A sword is mentioned as a sword +1, +3 vs. lycanthropes and shape changers that is "treated as a normal weapon against vampires". Does this mean a sword +1 against them, a masterwork sword (are those even in AD&D?), or as a mundane sword?
A. Ordinarily it is a +1 sword. Versus shapechangers it is +3, versus Vampires it is treated as non-magical (meaning it cannot hurt them)

Q. Just as a reminder: please confirm that 2 ep = 1 gp, and that 5 sp = 1 ep.
A. Yes, but in first edition 20 SP = 1 GP.

Q. What exactly is ML, anyways?
A. Morale

Q. "SD +1 needed to hit" means "at least a +1 magical weapon needed to inflict damage upon", right?
A. Yes.

Q. What does "MR special" mean?
A. Some sort of Magic Resistance that is not expressed as a percentage.

Q. The module says "a magical dagger +2, Vampire Slayer. When this special dagger strikes a vampire, its blade will turn to wood." Is this a good thing, and if so, how? If not, is it some sort of curse or something?
A. Possibly it means instant death for the vampire as it is a "stake"; could just be flavour text, though.

Q. What are the different classes of poison?
A. A through P, basically different strengths of damage. In first edition it was pretty much always instant death/save or die.

Q. How do you calculate THAC0 based off of 1st ed/OSRIC tables?
A. Look along the AC 0 row and compare to level. So, if you have a level 1 fighter, you would cross reference and find "20". However, some very low powered creatures will have an effective THAC0 of 21 because of the repeating 20s rule.

Q. Explain "Ravenloft powers check"s, "Horror checks", and all similar things... (Why does WotC publish these modules for free on their site with no explanations?)
A. Hmmn; have to take a look, get back to you on this.

Q. How do you run combats with 180 skellies or ridiculous numbers like that? I definitely don't have that many minis, that's for sure.
A. See other thread.

Q. I know Ravenloft is supposed to terrify, confuse, and play on the players; fears (*evil DM laugh*), but this module's confusing me. Any help?
What is the difference between 'goblins' and 'goblyns'?
A. No idea; possibly nothing. I will have a look and get back to you. [edit] They are detailed in the appendix of the adventure, and appear to be a variation on the standard goblin.

Q. "The land will do all that it can to..." Sentient land? Did I fail my Knowledge (AD&D Campaign Setting) check? [And yes, I know they didn't have those back in AD&D days]. Can someone give me a +10 circumstance bonus and a retry on the check? (As in, can I have useful information?)
A. Yeah, Ravenloft domains are bizarre. Not sure what it can do, have to take a look at the module.

Q. Where can I find stats for magic items not statted out in the module?
A. Probably in the OSRIC magic item appendix. If not, they may be particular to a supplement like Tome of Magic.

Q. "Int Very" means "Very High Int", right?
A. Yes, here is the range:

0 Nonintelligent or not rateable
1 Animal intelligence
2-4 Semi-intelligent
5-7 Low intelligence
8-10 Average (human) intelligence
11-12 Very intelligent
13-14 Highly intelligent
15-16 Exceptionally intelligent
17-18 Genius
19-20 Supra-genius
21+ Godlike intelligence

[Thelas]

EP: Wait, which part is wrong then? Is it that 10 sp = 1 ep or that 4 ep = 1 gp? (I'd guess the former).
INT: Aha, that's why people seem stupid a lot of the time. If the average human INT is from 8 to 10, the average IQ is 80 to 100, not 90 to 110 like they say.
Horror checks, etc...: This part is just really confusing me... as much help as possible will be appreciated.
New questions:
- How long does a 2nd ed round last? I know in 1st ed they're supposed to last 1 minute and contain 10 segments or something like that, but I don't know enough about 2nd ed, as per usual.
- Is there a difference between 18/00 and 19 STR, and which is the general one to use most often?
- What is a "save vs death magic": a save vs death or a save vs magic?
- Just repeating the question on horror checks. I think I'll really need to understand what they are by the time I start this campaign, which admittedly won't be that soon, but still...

Thanks for the help so far!

[Thane of Fife]

Explain "Ravenloft powers check"s, "Horror checks", and all similar things... (Why does WotC publish these modules for free on their site with no explanations?)

"The land will do all that it can to..." Sentient land? Did I fail my Knowledge(AD&D Campaign Setting) check? [And yes, I know they didn't have those back in AD&D days]. Can someone give me a +10 circumstance bonus and a retry on the check? (As in, can I have useful information?)

1. Well, the assumption is that you would have the Ravenloft boxed set when running these adventures.

While I cannot say with certainty, I believe that a Powers Check would be that, when one does something terribly evil, one may attract the attention of the dark forces of Ravenloft. If one does, then one may be gifted with some sort of power at the cost of some terrible curse. A sort of dark temptation, if you will.

I think that a Horror check is basically a super saving throw vs fear, but I am, again, uncertain.

2. Ravenloft is essentially alive and malicious. I don't know precisely what it can do, but I'd generally make things unpleasant for the PCs. Rain ruins their equipment, fog causes them to blunder into enemies or dangerous terrain, etc. Assuming that they're not careful, of course.

EDIT: A save vs. death magic is its own category on the saving throw matrix - save vs paralyzation, poison, and death magic, I believe. It's kind of like a fortitude save, and is generally one of the easier ones to pass, I believe.

18/00 Strength is inferior to 19. Generally, PCs are limited to 18/00 at best, while really strong monsters (like giants) will have higher ones.

And a round is 1 minute in 2e.

[Matthew]

EP: Wait, which part is wrong then? Is it that 10 sp = 1 ep or that 4 ep = 1 gp? (I'd guess the former).

First Edition: 1,000 CP = 100 SP = 10 EP = 5 GP = 1 PP
Second Edition: 500 CP = 50 SP = 10 EP = 5 GP = 1 PP
OSRIC: 500 CP = 50 SP = 10 EP = 5 GP = 1 PP

- How long does a 2nd ed round last? I know in 1st ed they're supposed to last 1 minute and contain 10 segments or something like that, but I don't know enough about 2nd ed, as per usual.

Same; in second edition they got rid of segments in favour of a more abstract approach. However, in 1995 they published a supplement called Combat & Tactics, which reduced the round length to 12 seconds. Technically, it does not really matter how long a round is, so long as you mark off 1 Turn for every 10 Rounds, or part thereof (this is for the purposes of resting 1 Turn in 6). You can also safely ignore all that if you prefer.

- Is there a difference between 18/00 and 19 STR, and which is the general one to use most often?

A strength of 19 is slightly higher than strength 18/00. It is a bit of a pain to deal with, and OSRIC could not replicate the original progression exactly. One way to deal with it is to separate exceptional strength from the normal progression like so: Strength Charts Discussion

- What is a "save vs death magic": a save vs death or a save vs magic?

Save versus Death I would think.

- Just repeating the question on horror checks. I think I'll really need to understand what they are by the time I start this campaign, which admittedly won't be that soon, but still...

Horror checks, etc...: This part is just really confusing me... as much help as possible will be appreciated.

According to my copy of Ravenloft, when a horror check is called for a character rolls a saving throw versus paralysis. If they fail, then the game master rolls 1d6:

1: Aversion (Runs Away, must stay 30' away from scene)
2: Revulsion (As aversion, but cannot even stand the thought of what happened)
3: Obsession (Cannot stop thinking about what happened, over the course of four days sleeplessness imposes a minus 4 penalty to hit)
4: Senseless Rage (Goes beserk, +2 to hit, +2 damage, double attacks, can save to end after three rounds; rage lingers for a month, minus 2 penalty on similar future checks)
5: Mental Shock (Stunned for 3 rounds. Can make a save each round afterwards to end, but if fails three in a row goes into deep shock for an hour, saving each hour to end. Future similar scenes have a minus 2 penalty for a month.
6: Fearstruck (Runs away, may turn and fight if forced; one round to gather wits, minus 2 to hit, 25% chance of spell failure)

Thanks for the help so far!

No worries!

[AllisterH]

Someone answered the Horrors check question.

A Powers check was when the PC(s) intentionally did something evil. The example used in the original boxed set (Realms of Terror) was of a PC locked in a jail to be executed in the morning. Killing the jailer to escape was considered morally grey but not actually a situation for a power check.

Torturing the jailer first though, even to get answers as to why the PC was being charged wrongly, WOULD result in a power check.

Basically, there were six stages of power checks (PCs were supposed to keep track of how often they were subject to a powers check). Each stage had a "reward" from the dark powers of the land (the whole "the land is ALIVE" motif) and a punishment.

The reward was always a mechanical/concrete/rollplaying reward while the punishment was mostly fluff/role-playing up to stage 4.

(For example, at stage 4, a player could gain FLY at will but the punishment would be that the PC would have to roll a saving throw versus spells to resist stealing an item of beauty/power. If unsuccessful, the DM got to run the character until that goal was established.

Conversely, at stage 2, you could get things like Detect Invisibility once a day or Speak with dead once a day as a reward but the punishment was noticeable physical changes such as growing fur/scales.)

Death magic had its own saving throw line (shared by paralyzation and poison) and was used for paralyzation and poison attacks regardless of source and magical attacks (spells and abilties) that would outright kill a character. It could ALSO be used to represent attacks that required great fortitude to resist, basically, it's the 3e equivalent of the FORT roll)

[Ledeas]

unless I am horriably wrong, Stab a Vampire with that Dagger of Vampire slaying, he gets a Save Vs. Death Magic or dies.

Another reason Poisons are named Class A throu whatever is, its easier to say as a player, "I buy 17 doses of a class C posion"

Instead of, "I want Nightshade"
Smart ass in group: "It s a little none fact that there are 17 types of niteshade some not really that deadly"
ect...

[Kurald Galain]

A sword is mentioned as a sword +1, +3 vs. lycanthropes and shape changers that is "treated as a normal weapon against vampires". Does this mean a sword +1 against them, a masterwork sword (are those even in AD&D?), or as a mundane sword?

I would read this as a reminder that vampires aren't considered "lycanthropes and shape changers" (even though they can technically change shape, they're a different class of monster). So the +3 doesn't apply to them, but the +1 does. I believe that's a moot point since vampires require a +2 weapon to be hit, but there you go.

Regardless, it would still be a masterwork sword because all magical items are masterwork. If I recall correctly, masterwork weapons are +1 to hit, +0 to damage; or perhaps it was vice versa.

[Random832]

I would read this as a reminder that vampires aren't considered "lycanthropes and shape changers" (even though they can technically change shape, they're a different class of monster).

Well, no. The "Sword +1, +3 vs. lycanthropes and shape changers" in the DMG is specifically described as working against vampires (and druids). So with that in mind, this note is specifically saying that this sword does not work against vampires. Still an open question on whether it keeps the +1 or not, unless Kurald is correct about +2 being necessary anyway.

[Thelas]

Someone answered the Horrors check question.

A Powers check was when the PC(s) intentionally did something evil. The example used in the original boxed set (Realms of Terror) was of a PC locked in a jail to be executed in the morning. Killing the jailer to escape was considered morally grey but not actually a situation for a power check.

Torturing the jailer first though, even to get answers as to why the PC was being charged wrongly, WOULD result in a power check.

Basically, there were six stages of power checks (PCs were supposed to keep track of how often they were subject to a powers check). Each stage had a "reward" from the dark powers of the land (the whole "the land is ALIVE" motif) and a punishment.

The reward was always a mechanical/concrete/rollplaying reward while the punishment was mostly fluff/role-playing up to stage 4.

(For example, at stage 4, a player could gain FLY at will but the punishment would be that the PC would have to roll a saving throw versus spells to resist stealing an item of beauty/power. If unsuccessful, the DM got to run the character until that goal was established.

Conversely, at stage 2, you could get things like Detect Invisibility once a day or Speak with dead once a day as a reward but the punishment was noticeable physical changes such as growing fur/scales.)

Death magic had its own saving throw line (shared by paralyzation and poison) and was used for paralyzation and poison attacks regardless of source and magical attacks (spells and abilties) that would outright kill a character. It could ALSO be used to represent attacks that required great fortitude to resist, basically, it's the 3e equivalent of the FORT roll)

Okay... here, I'll make something up, can someone tell me if the power level is about right?

Level 1) Detect magic 2/day, minor physical changes
Level 2) Speak with dead 1/day, noticeable physical changes
Level 3) Shadow monsters 3/day, sunlight becomes unpleasant OR wolfsbane affects character as if a werewolf OR something else like that
Level 4) Flight at will, PC must to roll a saving throw versus spells to resist stealing an item of beauty/power. If unsuccessful, the DM got to run the character until that goal was established.
Level 5) Phantasmal killer at will, whenever used, PC must roll a powers check. Roll the save vs spells from level 4 at -2, and must roll a save vs spells at -2 to... I don't know, someone help me find something to go here.
Level 6) Shadow magic at will. Roll the saves vs spells from levels 4 and 5 at -4, and must roll a save vs spells at -4 to leave Ravenloft even if they would normally be able to. In addition, must roll a save vs spells at -4 to resist attacking all seemingly helpless NPCs that actually interact with them.

[AllisterH]

From the Realms of Terror boxed set, here are some of the options possible for reward/punishment for a Horror check.

{Anything with an * was considered to function as a punishment as well)

Stage 1. The Enticement
Reward: +2 HP permanently, +1 to an ability score (max 18), move 15' on all fours*, jumps 2x in height and distance, small claws 1-2 pts of damage*, foul water and food with a touch *, +1 save vs disease OR paralyzation OR poison

Punishment: Yeah, real basic physical changes (eyes glow in the dark, character laughs like a hyena when tense or excited, bays at the moon when first sees it, colorblind, one side of face sags, hair becomes white and tangled.


Stage 2.The Invitation
Reward: Basically double what was in stage 1 and other things like a minor magical item, detect magic/speak with dead/detect invisibility/affect normal fires/chill touch once a day

Punishment: Gross physical change like growing a tail, fingers on left hand become tentacles, hunchback (combat ability unaffected), blinded in normal light, must drink blood once a day, face of a particular animal.


Stage 3: The touch of darkness
Reward: Gain 1 level, warp wood/tasha's hideous laughter/ray of enfeeblement 3 times per day, gains an evil monster of 2 HD as a follower

Punishment: Using the abilities warps the person's body (e.g. if they can warp wood by touch, their hands become gnarly and has curving nails. As well, they automatically gain a vicious temper meaning that they have to roll a saving throw vs spell whenever their desires are thwarted or attack the weakest person for 1 round around them(e.g. in boxed set is a barmaid that refuses to serve the character another drink, if unsuccessful against the saving throw, the character would slap the barmaid which of course would piss off the villagers and friends of the barmaid).

[Thelas]

Those are for horror checks? Do you mean powers checks?
And those are only the first three? Do they get all the listed abilities for each stage or just one?
I'll have to think on what sort of reward would be useful for the second half of the stages then...

Well, thanks. Now I'm impatiently awaiting the day when my players learn to deal with Kobolds properly (as in Kobolds played above INT 4), so that we can move on to AD&D and Ravenloft. *Insert evil DM laugh upon mention of Ravenloft*.

New question:
- What do they actually roll for a powers check? Save vs magic?

Thelas

[Matthew]

I would read this as a reminder that vampires aren't considered "lycanthropes and shape changers" (even though they can technically change shape, they're a different class of monster). So the +3 doesn't apply to them, but the +1 does. I believe that's a moot point since vampires require a +2 weapon to be hit, but there you go.

Regardless, it would still be a masterwork sword because all magical items are masterwork. If I recall correctly, masterwork weapons are +1 to hit, +0 to damage; or perhaps it was vice versa.

Well, no. The "Sword +1, +3 vs. lycanthropes and shape changers" in the DMG is specifically described as working against vampires (and druids). So with that in mind, this note is specifically saying that this sword does not work against vampires. Still an open question on whether it keeps the +1 or not, unless Kurald is correct about +2 being necessary anyway.

The vampires of Ravenloft are more eclectic than the standard Monster Manual version, with different abilities and special defences depending on their age. However, the Monster Manual vampire is vulnerable to +1 weapons.

There is an optional rule in the AD&D DMG for weapon quality, very good quality weapons conferring +1/+0, +0/+1 or +1/+1. Magic weapons do not have to be high quality, but it often makes sense that they are.

[AllisterH]

Those are for horror checks? Do you mean powers checks?

Yep, sorry about that. Those are the results of a failed Powers check.

And those are only the first three? Do they get all the listed abilities for each stage or just one?

Just one. You as DM get to choose for the player (just like magic spells and items, in pre 3e, DM's have a lot more control over the player character abilities)

Those are for horror checks? Do you mean powers checks?

Yep, sorry about that. Those are the results of a failed Powers check.

I'll have to think on what sort of reward would be useful for the second half of the stages then...

Stage 4. The Embrace
Reward: Immune to fire or cold, drain level by touch, control undead at will, magic jar by gaze once a day, invisibilty 3 times per day, need silver or magical weapon to hit the PC, spin webs with hands

Punishment: As mentioned earlier PLUS the physical change corresponds to the reward given (e.g is the sin webs by hand mean that your hands become actual spiders)


Stage 5: Creature of Ravenloft No reward but basically all punishment. The character's mind splits in two basically into a dark and good side and the dark side is controlled by the DM for 2d6 days. The boxed set isn't exactly clear as to what triggers the change, but my impression is that it is a consequence of failing the save vs spell from stage 4.

Don't really need to worry about statting out Stage 6 since at that point, the PC permanently becomes a Darklord and the player has to give their character sheet to the DM.

New question:
- What do they actually roll for a powers check? Save vs magic?

Thelas

It's a percentile roll (roll 1d100 or 2d10- one to represent tens, the other to represent units). A roll of 100 means that the powers of the land notice you. As a DM, you can increase the chance to up to 10% depending on how horrific the act was that the PCs did but it recommends that it should never be more than 10% for PC.

[AllisterH]

There is an optional rule in the AD&D DMG for weapon quality, very good quality weapons conferring +1/+0, +0/+1 or +1/+1. Magic weapons do not have to be high quality, but it often makes sense that they are.

Slight correction. It was either +1 to hit or +1 to damage. Never both and it depended on the type of weapon.

However, this optional system didn't apply to actual magical weapons. I don't think ther tem masterwork even appeared in DnD until the player's option series.

[Matthew]

Slight correction. It was either +1 to hit or +1 to damage. Never both and it depended on the type of weapon.

However, this optional system didn't apply to actual magical weapons. I don't think the term masterwork even appeared in DnD until the player's option series.

The DMG actually does not forbid exceptional weapons of +1/+1 type; in fact it suggests that +1/+0 are well balanced and +0/+1 weapons are well honed. There is no reason that such qualities could not be combined, and when the rules were further formalised in the Complete Fighter's Handbook it was spelled out that the highest quality weapons were indeed +1/+1.

Whether or not (and quite how) such rules might be incorporated into the function of magical weapons is not addressed, but one would expect that most were well balanced and honed.

[Thelas]

1% chance? Seriously? (thinks...) Actually, that's a good thing, since they kind of want to not roll the 1% chance.
Though if I don't explain it's a bad thing and one of them gets lucky and rolls it, I give them a +1 to a stat and a very minor disadvantage, maybe the players will start WANTING Ravenloft powers... *insert another Evil DM laugh here*

[Thelas]

And are fear checks just saves vs. spells or feared (and immunity doesn't help), or something slightly more confusing?

[Ledeas]

And are fear checks just saves vs. spells or feared (and immunity doesn't help), or something slightly more confusing?

usually with 2nd edition if something creates a fear check it is a savings throw versus a specific saving throws.

The dragon fear is save vs. Petrification.

If it is generated by a spell, use Save vs. Spell..

of course you can pick anything you want.

[AllisterH]

And are fear checks just saves vs. spells or feared (and immunity doesn't help), or something slightly more confusing?

In the context of Ravenloft, a fear check is a saving throw vs paralyzation. A Horror check is the same saving throw.

Fear vs Horror check.

A fear check is to be used against active threats that overwhelm the party/character. For example, if the PCs face a threat that has more than double the HD of the entire party, it calls for a Fear check. Another example given is if the threat can one-shot the hardiest adventurer in the party (a.k.a do enough HP damage to the PC with the max hp at full health)

Horror check is to be used for scenes that the PCs would feel revulsion from. Example from the boxed set was witnessing a fair young maiden take off her clothes to take a dip into the pond (obviously not horrific) and THEN witnessing the maiden take off her head before sliding into the water. (call for a Horror check)

Needless to say, both are more likely to occur at lower levels. As a PC levels, there less likely to be in situations where a fear check is appropriate (not many monsters I can think of that have the double the HD of a 10th level 5 person party in 2e) and horror checks are similarly less common (seeing their first victim of a werewolf mauling at 1st level might be an appropriate situation for a Horror check but by 10th? )

Both are recommended to be used sparingly and basically, the module itself should tell you when a fear or horror check is appropriate.

[Thelas]

And do fear checks also use the same table as horror checks?
Man, after this I really want a copy of the Ravenloft books so I don't have to keep asking these questions on the forae...

What's the general attitude towards character death in Ravenloft? I assume it's a "kill 'em if they deserved it" type of game because after all it's a horror setting, not just a "you see a kobold. you walk up to it. you kill it really easily and get free XP" setting. Also, I know that earlier one player threatened to leave (which wouldn't be great, I only have 3 players at the moment) because his character died. Being as I was basically using this to let them know I played kobolds smart and it was the first encounter I did the old "It's all a dream" trick, and gave him back his character, but... (Maybe I shouldn't be such a big fan of CdGs?) Any advice to not getting him TOO cranky about PC death without spoiling the Ravenloft mood?

[AllisterH]

And do fear checks also use the same table as horror checks?

Nah, best way to treat it is as it the player was struck by the FEAR spell (there _ARE_ minor differences but really, at the table, it was alwas easier just to use the spell description as there isn't that much difference)

Man, after this I really want a copy of the Ravenloft books so I don't have to keep asking these questions on the forae...

What's the general attitude towards character death in Ravenloft? I assume it's a "kill 'em if they deserved it" type of game because after all it's a horror setting, not just a "you see a kobold. you walk up to it. you kill it really easily and get free XP" setting. Also, I know that earlier one player threatened to leave (which wouldn't be great, I only have 3 players at the moment) because his character died. Being as I was basically using this to let them know I played kobolds smart and it was the first encounter I did the old "It's all a dream" trick, and gave him back his character, but... (Maybe I shouldn't be such a big fan of CdGs?) Any advice to not getting him TOO cranky about PC death without spoiling the Ravenloft mood?

Ravenloft is Gothic horror....supposed to be different than your standard slasher flick horror or Lovecraftian horror.

Personally, I wouldn't run Raenloft nowadays...It's much harder to sell the Gothic horror of Ravenloft..the thing is, part of the appeal of Ravenloft was supposed to be the seduction and the temptation of doing evil things (kind of why Lord Soth and Strahd are perfect examples of darklords).

As well, most of the gamers during Ravenloft's heyday in the early 90s were children of the 80s and as weird as it sounds, it was much easier to scare players back then as there wasn't as mch horror material available (much harder to get into a R-rated film back then). Furthermore, there's no things like SAW or the DEadspace/Left 4 dead/Resident Evil set of games.

Even for new players to D&D, it would be a hard sell due to the media available.

[Thelas]

I personally find that sort of stuff more interesting than Lovecraft, and that's why I said "kill 'em if they deserved it", not "kill 'em all every 0.5 seconds". Though I probably should have amended "and make sure they have a nice amount of seasoning (in the form of terror) before they die".
I'm giving Ravenloft a try, and after one module, if they don't like it, well the mists might be in a good mood and release them from our favorite demiplane.
Hopefully I can get it working... and if it doesn't at the very worst the conscious continuous effort to describe EVERYTHING will probably end up making me a better DM.

[Matthew]

We typically played it more like a Hammer Horror, so that it was not so much about the fear factor, but more about the style and tropes of the genre.

[Thelas]

Has anyone played the Ravenloft set of six modules (including the one I mentioned earlier)? The Fraternity of Shadows FAQ gives a specific order they recommend following for the modules (4, 3, 1, 2, 5, 6).
Can someone please check this text for the prophecy and make sure that I reordered it correctly? Specifically, I might have the last two verses out of order.

NOTE: IF YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY THESE MODULES, AND/OR ARE IN MY GROUP AND DISOBEYED THE NOTE IN THE TITLE, DON'T OPEN THE SPOILER.

Spoiler

Show

The night of evil shall descend on the land
When this hexad of signs is near at hand.

The light of the sky shining over the dead
Shall gutter and fail, turning all to red.

Seventh time the son of suns doth rise
To send the knave an eternity of cries.

In the house of Daegon the sorcerer born
Through life, unlife, unliving shall scorn.

The lifeless child of stern mother found
Heralds a time, a night of evil unbound.

Inajira will his fortunes reverse
And all shall live with dreaded curse.


--- (hyskosa scroll in NotWD ends here. full version continues) ---

The bodiless journey to time before
Where happiness to hate makes land of lore.

[Thelas]

For those of you who know more Ravenloft: Will slaughtering innocent villagers (TN) who attacked you first under a mistaken impression that you murdered someone force a powers check?

[hamlet]

Well, no. The "Sword +1, +3 vs. lycanthropes and shape changers" in the DMG is specifically described as working against vampires (and druids). So with that in mind, this note is specifically saying that this sword does not work against vampires. Still an open question on whether it keeps the +1 or not, unless Kurald is correct about +2 being necessary anyway.

Yes, I know the module that the OP is talking about, and that specific sword does not work against vampires. After all, it's found in the lair of a particularly intelligent and savvy vampire. It's a rather clever trap that careless PC's are likely to fall into if they do as PC's most often do, leap before they look.

As I haven't seen the question answered here yet, and I think it a very important one for the module, I'll put it here:

A "goblin" is NOT the same as a "goblyn." A goblin (with an "i") is the typical 1st level moster that dies after a sturdy kick in the crotch by the fighter.

A goblyn (with a "y"), on the other hand, is something the group I'm a player in has taken to calling "head biters." They're a particularly nasty humanoid from the Ravenloft setting and feature prominently in this module and one other. There should be a description of them in the module, though it's possible WOTC left them out (evil coastal wizards!). They're four or five hit dice, moderately magic resistant (just enough to ruin the wizard's day) and, if they can get both their hands on you, will take great pleasure in chewing your face off and eating the tender juicy filling of your skull.

I highly recommend that you spring the couple of bucks it'll take on E-Bay or Amazon or whatever to get an actuall copy of this module. The innards of it were not well transcribed by WOTC and things are very confusing. The original, while not particularly well laid out, is much clearer and worth the coin. If you're planning on continuing in the same vein of Ravenloft, then I'll also recommend you a module called Castles Forlorn. I don't have much info on the behind the scenes parts yet since I'm a player in it still, but I can tell you that in the hands of a careful and methodical DM, it's one hell of an adventure. Time travel, cursed lands, hordes of goblyns, a giant undead sea serpent, just all kinds of fun. I must warn you, though, that if you're looking for a straight up knock down fight, you and your players will go insane with this module. Literally.

As for AD&D/OSRIC, my advice is to take it slow. Don't let things overwhelm you as this and many other modules are complex and difficult to deal with. Don't be afraid to call a halt for a minute or two while you figure something out. If the players ask a question that you don't know the answer to immediately, tell the player to hold on a second while you open the book and look it up. Once you get used to things, the only thing you'll be looking up is the info in the module about the backstory (which is a bit complicated here).

Another bit of advice if you haven't started yet, take the module you're talking about, get yourself a copy of Castles Forlorn, and crame them together. Just slice off the first bit of the Feast about how things start out, in fact the entire first third of the module really, and all of the sudden, you're left with the realization that the main artifact/macguffin opens up worlds of possibilities in the larger module. Just have the bad girl steal it from the titular castles. Castles Forlorn makes a great superstructure to jam other modules into as side-quests, or simply as diversions when the main action gets too intense for the hapless victims, a way to get folks out of the cursed and evil area and into a place where they can mentally recupperate by beating up on weaker things.

As for the mists of Ravenloft shtick, I recommend it be dropped. It's really heavy handed and doesn't add a whole lot to the game, IMO, though you can use it now and then if you need to smack them around a bit.

[hamlet]

For those of you who know more Ravenloft: Will slaughtering innocent villagers (TN) who attacked you first under a mistaken impression that you murdered someone force a powers check?

Depends. If it's actual self defence, then probably not, though it might leave them open to future corruption. If the villagers pose no real threat, or the players (not characters, the PLAYERS) seem to enjoy it too much, then yeah, probably.

[Lapak]

Though if I don't explain it's a bad thing and one of them gets lucky and rolls it, I give them a +1 to a stat and a very minor disadvantage, maybe the players will start WANTING Ravenloft powers... *insert another Evil DM laugh here*

That is exactly the point. DON'T go warning them that it's a bad thing if they can't figure out for themselves that "hey, I threw a child at the vampire in order to escape, and now I can see in the dark!" is a bad thing. The Demiplane of Dread wants the powers it grants to be attractive until the person getting them in well and truly on the road to Hell.

More than any other D&D setting, Ravenloft is supposed to be about that kind of choice; the horror of the setting comes from the fact that evil is in control. Evil is more powerful than the heroes. If the heroes were evil, frankly, things would get a lot easier for them - as an extreme example, Paladins in the land are screwed with a capital SCREW, as darklords automatically become aware of them and can determine their general location from the moment they enter a domain to the moment they leave it. A party of all assassins and dark wizards might well be the most successful at actually resisting a darklord, because they blend in with the background and their power will be augmented rather than resisted, but they run a real risk of becoming the thing they fight against.