Seduction rules and mechanics?

[nonamearisto]

I know that WoTC wouldn't touch these with a 10-foot pole, and some material is rather... over-the-top. Does anyone here have some sort of rules they homebrew in their games for this sort of thing?

[Solaris]

... I'll tell you what I tell my players: If you're looking for sex or anything sexlike, D&D is not the place to start.
Diplomacy or Bluff checks. Take your pick. Then Con checks. Bam. Done.

[jmbrown]

Roleplay it. Seduction is one of those things that doesn't translate well into a mechanical "roll this and get above this." Diplomacy may involve seduction, it depends on how you play it out in game.

As for coming up with mechanics, you have some work on your hand. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; a dwarf probably won't take too kindly to an elf hitting on them but there could be dwarves that like that sort of thing. You'll have to consider asexual intelligent creatures like mind flayers who're probably only turned on by how large your brain is. Yeah, any kind of seduction skill will have some serious restrictions as far as fantasy races are concerned.

[Edwin]

Actually, there's an entire 3rd party book that deals with seduction, childbirth, and, well, other illicit acts and things related to it. The name eludes me, however.

It's 2e, though.

[Solaris]

Actually, there's an entire 3rd party book that deals with seduction, childbirth, and, well, other illicit acts and things related to it. The name eludes me, however.

It's 2e, though.

There's also one in 3E. Likewise, its name escapes me.

[Kallisti]

BoEF might have rules. But the question is: Would it really be wise to put those tools in the hands of players?

Go watch The Gamers 2 for why the answer is a resounding no. Especially around bards.

[ZeroNumerous]

Actually, there's an entire 3rd party book that deals with seduction, childbirth, and, well, other illicit acts and things related to it. The name eludes me, however.

It's 2e, though.

There's the Book of Erotic Fantasy in 3.x. But, honestly, no matter what you do it'll be creepy if it's only between you and your friends.

Personally, I'd just use a series of diplomacy checks in D&D.

[Edwin]

BoEF might have rules. But the question is: Would it really be wise to put those tools in the hands of players?

Go watch The Gamers 2 for why the answer is a resounding no. Especially around bards.

We didn't say it was a good idea, just that is was possible.

It's horribly yucky.

[nonamearisto]

Ugh... the BoEF... not what I had in mind... too weird.

Still, thanks for all the advice!

[The Tygre]

I believe the book you're looking for is the Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. You'll actually want the second edition one for seduction, although I recommend trying to grab the d20 one if you can find it. I still keep parts of the second edition around, though. It's fairly systems-neutral, and if I recall them correctly, the seduction rules shouldn't even need conversion. Also, I might recommend grabbing a PDF of Mongoose Publishing's Quintessential Temptress.

[Mulletmanalive]

I actually DO have rules for such things, but only because it's a different Social Arena...rather than getting a leg over, it's proven a highly entertaining way of weedling information out of NPCs.

If you want a simple solution to the whole "I woo her" type thing, try and track down books 1 and 3 of Mongoose Publishing's Infernum: Adventure in Hell game [it's awesome but took some modification to produce the best game i ever played in], which has a full spread of rules for manipulating others, including grovelling, seduction, intimidation, reason and bargining.

[dsmiles]

Do you really need rules for this? If so, the BoEF is the only sourcebook I know of to cover it, but I think RP would work just fine.

[lesser_minion]

If a PC wants to go all the way with an NPC, just cut to the next morning. I don't really see an actual depiction of such an act adding anything to the game.

Romantic relationships can theoretically be explored in an RPG, but I get the impression that they are one of the hardest things to handle well.

In any event, rules for establishing romantic relationships would be either useless or counter-productive.

The closest thing to an official seduction rule is the favourable circumstances rule.

[Calmar]

Diplomacy with a circumstance bonus or penalty of 2 or 5, depending on whether the person likes you, or not.

[Mulletmanalive]

Romantic relationships can theoretically be explored in an RPG, but I get the impression that they are one of the hardest things to handle well.

Oh, verily, it is. If you're from Bristol, I suggest asking around for a character by the name of Big Sally, a recurring character who has repeatedly been used by UOB GMs to block such things [usually begun by the creepiest guy in the group aiming their comments at male GMs...]

On a rules related note, i think madly in love is one of the very few conditions, along with mother for child where the Fanatical attitude is relevant without magic or Epic manipulation being involved.

[The Tygre]

Dug em' up. Here's the old second edition rules;

Spoiler

Show

SEDUCTION: MORE THAN REACTION ROLLS
This is a simple yet effective way to handle a seduction. It is far more fun than making endless reaction checks and it certainly keeps players on their feet.

The following are the steps for seducing:

* When the character first comes in contact with someone he/she wants to seduce, a normal reaction roll is made. If the reaction of the victim is friendly, then a seduction may take place.

* The preliminary moves are made (i.e. role playing) and attribute checks are made. The seducer makes a Charisma check with modifiers from Table 1. The victim makes an Intelligence check (to see if he/she is dumb enough to fall for it) with modifiers from Table 1. If the seducer beats the victim's roll by 4 or more, he/she is doing well and may continue.

* The GM decides how many more checks should be made with suitable pluses or minuses to the attribute rolls (take into account how well the player is role playing). Usually no more than three more successful checks are necessary. Failed checks mean that the victim of the seduction lost interest, but the seducer can try again with the Charisma check halved (its not easy to get back up on that horse after being shot down).

Table1: Attribute Modifiers
Moves Made Seducer Victim
Drunkenly -2 +2
Sleazy/Raunchy -1 +1
Aggressive +1 -1
Gentleman/Lady +2 -2


SEDUCTION FOR THE PROFESSIONAL
Certain characters (see the sub-classes in this guide) have a special benefit of seduction. This ability that differs from the seduction rules above is described here. Note that these rules are not gender specific but are given as if the Seducer is a woman.

The Seducer has a special power of seduction. Seduction is an ability which is used against individual males of the same or similar race as the Seducer. The Seducer's percentage chance of seducing is given by the following formula:

Seducer's level
-------------------------- X 100
victim's level + modifiers

TABLE 1: CUMULATIVE MODIFIERS; IF VICTIM IS...
Fighter +3 Elf/Half-elf * +1
Rogue +3 Dwarf/Gnome/Halfling +2
Mage +4 Orc/Half-orc -1
Cleric +5

* +1 for each outsider (see below)

Table 2: CUMULATIVE VICTIM'S WISDOM MODIFIER
1 -6 08-14 0
2 -4 15 +1
3 -3 16 +2
4 -2 17 +3
05-07 -1 18 +4

Table 3: OPTIONAL SEDUCER'S STATE OF DRESS MODIFIER
Heavily clothed +1
Scantily/Provocatively clad -1
Nude -2

(The latter state will not be terribly practical under most circumstances, and might well lead to arrest for indecent exposure.)

A seduced person will drop his weapons, become oblivious to his surroundings, and attempt to engage the Seducer in a passionate embrace. In such a state he is extremely vulnerable (especially to kiss spells which are very popular amongst Seducers). However, if the Seducer does not attempt to use a spell on a seduced victim, he is allowed to make his save vs. spell. If this is successful, then he realizes what has happened in which case the seduction is broken and he cannot be immediately seduced again. Breaking the seduction, however, does not affect the success of the spell being used.

Seduction cannot be used in combat and cannot work against other females except those that are homosexuals. The presence of other individuals in close proximity (within ten feet, or obviously watching) will reduce the chance of success of the seduction attempt. For each outsider present, add 1 to the modifier.

Seduction lasts for a number of turns equal to five times the Seducer's level, or until broken. It can be broken in a number of ways, i.e. if the Seducer attempts to use a kiss spell as above, or if she resists his attentions (the victim is allowed his save vs. spell each time she does so), or if the victim is attacked. In the latter case, the seduction is instantly broken.

Seduction can only be used on a single individual at a time; a Seducer may use the ability a number of times per day equal to her level.

EXAMPLE OF THE USE OF SEDUCTION: Lirona the Seducer (3rd level, human) is attempting to seduce Thad Leaf the thief (5th level, human). The scene is the Golden Griffon Inn. There are a number of other people present but no one is paying any particular attention to the pair. Lirona's chance of seducing Thad is equal to 3 (her level) X 100 divided by 5 (Thad's level) +3 (modified for a thief), i.e. 300 / 8 = 37.5%. Lirona rolls 30. Success! Thad is taken in by her charms. however, a bar is no place for a romantic liaison. Eagerly he accompanies her upstairs to her room, his arm around her slim waist, not suspecting the fate that awaits him when he gets there...!

[Closak]

Huh?
Well i be damned, this explains a lot.

Now i understand what sir bucket was talking about


I teach him what happens when you try to trick Closak!
*Takes out rusty kitchen knife*

[nonamearisto]

Yeah. I'm thinking, at this point... those are some very good rules...

I might just try a few simpler rolls though...

A diplomacy check for attracting the target, a second check for seducing him/her/it (it? ), a pair of rolls for how... well the actual act went... and some con check for pregnancy.

[Lysander]

Seduction in DnD is essentially your friend soliciting you for phone sex in front of your other friends. Creepy to an extreme.

Having said that, it's not so bad if it's just saying "as a handsome bard you can assume I spend my evening doing something X-rated" rather than acting out "I go up to the bar maid. 'Prithee maiden, what art thou doing tonight?' I say to her. Sense motive check to see if she's up for a backrub."

[root9125]

There's the Book THAT MUST NOT BE NAMED in 3.x. But, honestly, no matter what you do it'll be creepy if it's only between you and your friends.

Personally, I'd just use a series of diplomacy checks in D&D.

You understand, of course, that the reason the name of the book eludes people discussing it is that it is absolutely terrifying.

[Zeful]

Seduction in DnD is essentially your friend soliciting you for phone sex in front of your other friends. Creepy to an extreme.

Having said that, it's not so bad if it's just saying "as a handsome bard you can assume I spend my evening doing something X-rated" rather than acting out "I go up to the bar maid. 'Prithee maiden, what art thou doing tonight?' I say to her. Sense motive check to see if she's up for a backrub."

That depends really, in a hack and slash game it would be maybe two diplomacy rolls, a percentile roll, and if necessary, a fort save, and maybe some grapple and Use Rope checks if he gets caught for the inevitable shotgun crossbow wedding.
In an intrigue-heavy game, where well placed seduction can determine not just what information you get, but also what the NPC does afterwords, it's best to swallow your pride and roleplay it out (to a specific limit, then it's back to the dice).

[The Tygre]

I'd post the rules for the rest of stuff but (insert witty/raunchy pun about ban-hammer).

[Weimann]

I feel there's some confusion of terms in this discussion. Seduction doesn't always imply the intent of sleeping with the target. Therefore, it's relevant to have rules on how to go about it, since the outcome could have a mechanical effect on the plotline.

Let's say a diplomat sits on important information regarding governmental affairs with his country. I fail to see why it would be more acceptable to ambush him and bully the info out of him, than making a socialite seduce him and whoo it out. That can be likened with a battle for a reward, maybe even awarding xp, and as such needs rules in order for the players not to feel that they are left to the whims of the DM (and also, maybe, to make the act complex enough to warrant an xp reward).

The fact that seduction MAY lead to sexual stuff doesn't mean that the seduction in itself should be avoided. Naturally, what you might wish to avoid is players explicitly playing out sex scenes, but that's a whole other subject, which doesn't have to do with game mechanics.

The rules presented above seem logical to me.

[Ryerbiar]

Nymphology is something you might want to read, but that's more for a joke then actual mechanics. The whole thing deals with sex related magic and even has a whimsical mechanic for when those bed springs are bouncing.

[The Tygre]

Nymphology is something you might want to read, but that's more for a joke then actual mechanics. The whole thing deals with sex related magic and even has a whimsical mechanic for when those bed springs are bouncing.

Heh... mystical pimp. I'm surprised I wasn't kicked out of Books A' Million for that. But I prefer Quintessential Temptress and their rules for Brothels/Prostitution. It's weird, but even as a joke Quintessential book, the mechanics are still detailed, balanced, and fun to read... NOT THAT WAY.

[SurvivorX]

It's one thing to deal with a PC trying to seduce an NPC, but what about the other way around?

A PC doesn't even need to roll a sense motive or anything to figure out what's going on (I mean, really. If the GM had some random chick hitting on my character, I'd give it better-than-even odds that it's a succubus or something similar.) How would you deal with that situation?

[Ecalsneerg]

Actually, Wizards did publish seduction mechanics, and gave it to Swashbucklers as a dead level filler: That said, it is essentially a Bluff check that takes a couple of hours to pull off.

[The Tygre]

It's one thing to deal with a PC trying to seduce an NPC, but what about the other way around?

A PC doesn't even need to roll a sense motive or anything to figure out what's going on (I mean, really. If the GM had some random chick hitting on my character, I'd give it better-than-even odds that it's a succubus or something similar.) How would you deal with that situation?

Well, you just put your finger right on it. I know if there's an NPC in my campaign hitting on one of my PCs, it's a given that she's probably a vampire or an aranea or a viral STD carrier, at least. That said, I just describe how the NPC acts, a rough summary of what they say, and make a few secret die rolls.

Actually, Wizards did publish seduction mechanics, and gave it to Swashbucklers as a dead level filler: That said, it is essentially a Bluff check that takes a couple of hours to pull off.

Not the fun kind.

[Anonymouswizard]

Do you want your campaign to be like this orthis?

[The Tygre]

Do you want your campaign to be like this orthis?

Already is, mah boi. And we've been laughing our asses off the entire time.