iPad and tablets, just not good enough yet for RPG pdfs!

[harpy]

Ever since I've been a child and I watched Lumpy pull out his portable video player gizmo on the Star Wars Holiday Special and watched Boba Fett mess with his father and Han as a cartoon I desperately wanted one. Quickly though I discovered such things did not exist, however I also learned that technology was getting better and eventually we'd have them.

Well, it look a long time... we have them now, but everything still crawls out at a tepid pace. Well, I'm sure people will stress the amazing progression we're currently in, but my impatience continues unabated.

The revealing of the iPad is another one of these moments that's aggravating my geeky obsession. I'm very enthused of its existence because it's taking a form factor that ought to be ubiquitous at this point and shoving it into the mainstream marketplace where hopefully it will thrive.

Still, after reading this article, what I find maddening is that no one is coming out with the most obvious form factor needed, being able to display an 8.5"x 11" sheet of paper to scale.

The thing is, we've had basically had the equivalent of a tablet pc technology for a very long time now, it's called the clipboard. It allows several documents to be easily accessible in a mobile format. You can write on it, and there are slightly thicker ones that allow a compartment to be opened for filing. Overall the size is pretty standard, about 12.5" in length and 9" wide.

Unfortunately, so much of the form factor seems to be driven by watching 16:9 movies, or reading softcover novels that it is screwing up the dimensions needed to function with paper, which despite the promise of a paperless society, still has yet to happen.

The iPad might help move us closer to a paperless society, but that is still a long ways off. What is really needed is a digital "analog" of the paper format, and then finally rework the medium to best fit digital use.

I had high hopes for the Plastic Logic Que reader, however when they finally revealed its specs I was dissapointed to find out that the 8.5" x 11" screen was in fact the size of the whole device. Instead it has an 10.5" diagonal screen.

After that disappointment, I did hear about the Skiff which will be coming out this year. It's screen is bigger, having an 11.5" diagonal area to view. Better, though there are few details about it at the moment.

I grab a piece of paper and started working out what that really meant. Unfortunately it isn't enough to get things to true scale for documents. If you shave off the standard margins of a sheet of paper then you need at least an 11.2" diagonal screen. To get the full sheet of paper displayed at scale means a 13.88" diagonal screen.

So really the magic number I'm waiting to hear is 14" e-reader/table screen. I'll be able to open up a word or pdf document and have a complete sheet of paper, with all of those glorious blank margins being simulated digitally for me.

It could be asked, "why on earth do you want margins in a digital document?" and all I can say is just look at how we use paper. We don't have text run right up to the edge of paper. Margins help the reader focus, framing the text with negative space so that it is easier to read. They also are vital to notes and commentary. Ultimately, it's about getting to a point where we have digital paper that can be used and interacted with, and not just having passive consumption of content.

Currently I own a Gateway tablet notebook pc. It has a 14.25" diagonal screen. It's a great machine, works well and I have no problem viewing docs and pdfs on it. The problem is it is heavy and really hot running. I can't lay in bed, on the couch or even sit in the bathroom with this thing. It's got too much horsepower to be used a a reader.

So I'm left to impatiently twiddle my thumbs waiting for technology to catch up with my imagination and desires. I know all of this stuff is coming, but it can't come fast enough for me.

[ken-do-nim]

Good points. When a pdf is truly just as easy to read as a print copy, I wonder what will happen to print products.

[Gamerlord]

Meh, I myself prefer dead-tree format.

You watched the holiday special? You poor soul.

[Optimystik]

For myself, portability trumps readability. I'll gladly view a portion of each page at a time (it's not as though I can take in an entire page at once anyway, instead of line by line) if it means the thing will fit in my pocket or a small pouch.

I could definitely see myself tossing a bunch of pdfs, a few character sheets and some music onto an ipad and heading to a gaming session. Would be a ton of fun

[valadil]

I won't be buying an iPad myself, but I'm glad they're here. Tablet PCs were a niche product before. I wouldn't call them mainstream yet, but now the mainstream knows what they are. By the time iPad v2 comes out, Apple and whoever else decides to try out the tablet PC market will have some feedback about what does and doesn't work for this kind of tech. Within the next 5 years or so, you'll probably have a tablet that works well for RPGs.

[Jayabalard]

there's nothing particularly holy about 8.5 x 11; it's not even a worldwide standard, since (I think) most people outside of the US use A4 instead, which is slightly longer and narrower.

[Deth Muncher]

there's nothing particularly holy about 8.5 x 11; it's not even a worldwide standard, since (I think) most people outside of the US use A4 instead, which is slightly longer and narrower.

O_o My poor, sheltered American life. Here I was thinking all paper was 8.5 x 11.

[BenTheJester]

Wait, such a wall of text(also in the wrong forum) because electronic pads aren't 8½ by 11.

Is it THAT much of a big deal?

[Jayabalard]

O_o My poor, sheltered American life. Here I was thinking all paper was 8.5 x 11.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...

Anyway, I think it's much more likely that we'll see devices using A3 or A4 rather than US Letter; they have some nice properties that would be useful for such a device (the way that the different sizes relate to one another).

[valadil]

Anyway, I think it's much more likely that we'll see devices using A3 or A4 rather than US Letter; they have some nice properties that would be useful for such a device (the way that the different sizes relate to one another).

I would be amused if these devices were ever measured in paper size instead of diagonal screen size. Although that would probably lead to a lot of clueless users trying to buy an A3 sized device with an upgrade to an A4 screen, assuming it's a quality thing and not a size measurement.

[Overshee]

I read Eclipse Phase almost entirely on a kindle DX. It wasn't bad. I could never use it during a game (page refreshes and navigation are SLOOOOW), but for just reading the book it looked good in portrait and great (although multiple refreshes per page) in landscape.

[Deth Muncher]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not...

Anyway, I think it's much more likely that we'll see devices using A3 or A4 rather than US Letter; they have some nice properties that would be useful for such a device (the way that the different sizes relate to one another).

Unfortunately, I was not being sarcastic. I actually thought 8.5 x 11 was the world's default. Depressing. :/

[harpy]

Since A4 is even bigger than 8.5x11 I'd happily take that, anything to get my RPG pdfs viewed at scale.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Meh, I myself prefer dead-tree format.

Spoiler

Show

[eepop]

There are apps that display pdfs on the iPhone, and you can use iPhone apps on the iPad.

I've had no trouble reading pdfs on my iphone, so I can only imagine that reading them on an iPad would be easy as pie. The scaling used in the app I have is really smooth, so even if its smaller than 8.5by11, its still legible.

Don't write this off before you see it first hand, the future may very well be here.

(As a note, I'm not an apple fanboy. The only apple product I own is my iphone, and I have no intent to change that.)

[valadil]

I've had no trouble reading pdfs on my iphone

Really? Mine's slow as hell. It took several rounds of combat to scroll 100 pages in my D&D pdfs.

[alchemyprime]

I do have high hopes for the future, when I can bring a tablet PC out, and have it roll my dice, hold my books, and have a nice projector for my maps.

Of course... Once I get a projector, I won't be far off with my laptop. Get a higher powered desktop, run the maps, use my LCD TV to show random drops...

Myes...

But seriously, I understand the frustration. I did use to keep the Crystal Keep pdfs on a PDA for easy access in High School though.

"Hey Alch, hw much damage does Searing Light do?" *taps screen, types Searing*
"3d8, now right down your dang notes!"

[Draxar]

If I had the money and didn't already have a laptop, then I'd be quite tempted by an iPad for gaming use – the iPhone is reasonable for dicerolling with the dicenomicon, and I think it'd display PDFs and character sheets acceptable well.

I have to admit I've pretty much given up paper character sheets in favour of my laptop.

Unfortunately, I was not being sarcastic. I actually thought 8.5 x 11 was the world's default. Depressing. :/

The 'A' series are built around the idea of half of one is the next number down. A0 has an area of a square meter, and they all have a length : width ratio of Root 2 : 1

From a graphics point of view, the halving thing is pretty damn useful; I've printed a 4 page character sheet on both sides of an A3 sheet before now.

[Nai_Calus]

Someone please explain to me the appeal of PDFs and digital crap?

I find them nearly unusable, even reading a PDF on my monitor on my normal computer where page loading is near-instantaneous. They're hard to read since you just get eyestrain within 10 minutes, you can't flip to the section you want like you can with a paper book, and almost entirely useless in practice. I go nuts running my character from a laptop screen like I've been doing right now because my mother doesn't have a working printer I can use to print my sheet. Character Builder itself is great because it compiles everything together, but it's also not long-term reading or something I use in the middle of a session to look things up. Using the sheet it generates on-screen, egh. So much scrollllling.

Seriously... What's the appeal?

[Overshee]

Someone please explain to me the appeal of PDFs and digital crap?

I find them nearly unusable, even reading a PDF on my monitor on my normal computer where page loading is near-instantaneous. They're hard to read since you just get eyestrain within 10 minutes, you can't flip to the section you want like you can with a paper book, and almost entirely useless in practice. I go nuts running my character from a laptop screen like I've been doing right now because my mother doesn't have a working printer I can use to print my sheet. Character Builder itself is great because it compiles everything together, but it's also not long-term reading or something I use in the middle of a session to look things up. Using the sheet it generates on-screen, egh. So much scrollllling.

Seriously... What's the appeal?

Control-F, super easy bookmarks that don't maim the book, integrated errata?

I don't get eye strain when reading PDFs, and they're generally a fair amount cheaper.

[Ormur]

I've grown really dependent on my computer for role playing with the handiness of the d20srd, pdf. documents and spreadsheets. It's really the only reason I'd have for getting a laptop but my place is the usual setting for games so I just use my desktop. If they produced a thin A4 sized relatively cheap tablet I'd buy it. Even though paper is still the most comfortable format printing out all the pdf. files I have to read, both in D&D and school, would be too much of a hassle. It would be really nice reading them in bed and not needing a laptop.

[Ichneumon]

I'd buy an Ipad for all the D&D pdfs I have, however, it would be great if there was some kind of app for creating maps, a bit like GameTable, or something.

[absolmorph]

I would love to have a portable device dedicated to running pdfs.
Especially if I could view a full piece of paper at the actual size. That would be so useful!
I understand your disappointment, although I don't share it. I recently was pondering and thought it would be a wondrous use of technology, and it's probably easily possible today.

[Tyger]

Yup, the iPad is on my list of things to get for this exact reason... I can carry one .8 kg device or 20 kgs of books... add in a dice roller, and the srd on there, and my little gaming heart is happy as a clam.

Do we have confirmation that the iPad will actually use pdfs though? I didn't see it in the specs, and am now feverenly hoping that I just missed it somewhere.

The screen size is a bit smaller than a normal WotC book, true, but its bigger than the opensource PG and DMG that I bought in place of those, so the size isn't an issue for me. Add in the ability to watch a decent sized movie screen and I am a happy, happy man. If it can do a crossword and sudoku app, I may explode with joy.

[valadil]

Someone please explain to me the appeal of PDFs and digital crap?

Easier to carry. Takes up less physical space. While I don't like reading PDFs straight up, they're good for reference because you can search for terms. I can very easily read every paragraph on Netheril instead of having to read the whole book myself. In theory PDFs are cheaper because the publisher can duplicate them for free. Whether or not that's done depends on the publisher. PDFs are more portable. I check up on rules all the time at work but wouldn't do so if I had to lug my books around with me.

That's the appeal anyway. I still prefer dead tree.

[Optimystik]

Someone please explain to me the appeal of PDFs and digital crap?

I find them nearly unusable, even reading a PDF on my monitor on my normal computer where page loading is near-instantaneous. They're hard to read since you just get eyestrain within 10 minutes, you can't flip to the section you want like you can with a paper book, and almost entirely useless in practice. I go nuts running my character from a laptop screen like I've been doing right now because my mother doesn't have a working printer I can use to print my sheet. Character Builder itself is great because it compiles everything together, but it's also not long-term reading or something I use in the middle of a session to look things up. Using the sheet it generates on-screen, egh. So much scrollllling.

Seriously... What's the appeal?

If you get eyestrain within 10 minutes of looking at a computer screen, how do you function at work?

Also, you're wrong - not only CAN you "flip to the section you want" you can actually do so much more easily than with a paper book. If your pdf if OCR, this is child's play - if not, you can just use bookmarks (or even make your own, if you've been blessed with Adobe Professional from your job like I am.)

But the biggest advantage is portability - I can't tell you how much shorter a wait at the airport is if I can flip through Magic of Incarnum, hop over to Magic Item Compendium, check out the SRD, grab some skill tricks from CS and finish up with some sample encounters from MM3 - all without increasing the size of my luggage or carry-on in the slightest.

[Vizzerdrix]

I'd like to get one of these. I just want one that can hold all my pdf books (most of mine I keep on a usb devise now), has a dice roller and that I can run a character sheet from (something I can write on). Can the iPad do this?

If not then I guess I'm stuck with my netbook, and it's sad short battery life

[Overshee]

I'd like to get one of these. I just want one that can hold all my pdf books (most of mine I keep on a usb devise now), has a dice roller and that I can run a character sheet from (something I can write on). Can the iPad do this?

If not then I guess I'm stuck with my netbook, and it's sad short battery life

I just use my MacBook Pro and a binder to hold misc maps and papers as my GM Screen when I'm running.

[Draxar]

Do we have confirmation that the iPad will actually use pdfs though? I didn't see it in the specs, and am now feverenly hoping that I just missed it somewhere.

There are PDF readers for the iPhone already. Don't use 'em myself, so can't say how good they are, but they're there.

[Tyger]

There are PDF readers for the iPhone already. Don't use 'em myself, so can't say how good they are, but they're there.

That's the best news I have had in weeks! Thanks Draxar!