Wall of Force as a planet buster

[Lysander]

There was this argument I saw a while back proposing that Wall of Force could be used to destroy a planet, or at least cause major damage. Here's what you do. Become immune to cold/heat/vacuum, teleport somewhere in deep space in the path of the planet, then start throw up Walls of Force. The walls are immovable and invulnerable so when the planet hits them they should dig tunnels right through the core of the planet at thousands of miles per hour. If not outright destruction we're talking major earthquakes and volcanic activity as a result.

But Walls of Force aren't completely invulnerable. The Legendary Dreadnought epic prestige class has the Unstoppable class ability which lets it make a DC32 Str check to break walls of force. So, should we assume that a freaking planet also has the ability to smash walls of force apart?

[Kobold-Bard]

There was this argument I saw a while back proposing that Wall of Force could be used to destroy a planet, or at least cause major damage. Here's what you do. Become immune to cold/heat/vacuum, teleport somewhere in deep space in the path of the planet, then start throw up Walls of Force. The walls are immovable and invulnerable so when the planet hits them they should dig tunnels right through the core of the planet at thousands of miles per hour. If not outright destruction we're talking major earthquakes and volcanic activity as a result.

But Walls of Force aren't completely invulnerable. The Legendary Dreadnought epic prestige class has the Unstoppable class ability which lets it make a DC32 Str check to break walls of force. So, should we assume that a freaking planet also has the ability to smash walls of force apart?

If it can make a DC120 Escape Artist check or has 1 Level of Legendary Dreadnought then sure it can.

But how many Class Levels do you think the Earth has? Probably not enough, it is inanimate after all.

[ScionoftheVoid]

There was this argument I saw a while back proposing that Wall of Force could be used to destroy a planet, or at least cause major damage. Here's what you do. Become immune to cold/heat/vacuum, teleport somewhere in deep space in the path of the planet, then start throw up Walls of Force. The walls are immovable and invulnerable so when the planet hits them they should dig tunnels right through the core of the planet at thousands of miles per hour. If not outright destruction we're talking major earthquakes and volcanic activity as a result.

But Walls of Force aren't completely invulnerable. The Legendary Dreadnought epic prestige class has the Unstoppable class ability which lets it make a DC32 Str check to break walls of force. So, should we assume that a freaking planet also has the ability to smash walls of force apart?

I think it would be more funny to have Legendary Dreadnought-shaped bits of planet survive due to a DC 32 Str check (with circumstance modifiers for going at such a speed) where the Walls have been broken. As a rule, unless you want to deal with this kind of thing and Walls of Force whizzing about all over the place due to them being literally immovable, you could have "immovable" effects be relative to the nearest object over however much mass/volume. You can still do this, but it's much more difficult.

[Thalnawr]

If it can make a DC120 Escape Artist check or has 1 Level of Legendary Dreadnought then sure it can.

But how many Class Levels do you think the Earth has? Probably not enough, it is inanimate after all.

Hmmm, what would be funny is having some epic wizard who's really bored cast Animate Object and Permanency on a planet.

[The Glyphstone]

Hmmm, what would be funny is having some epic wizard who's really bored cast Animate Object and Permanency on a planet.

Needs more Awaken Construct. Now it can take class levels, and call itself Ego.

[Thalnawr]

Needs more Awaken Construct. Now it can take class levels, and call itself Ego.

I knew I was forgetting something...

[Dr Bwaa]

As a rule, unless you want to deal with this kind of thing and Walls of Force whizzing about all over the place due to them being literally immovable, you could have "immovable" effects be relative to the nearest object over however much mass/volume. You can still do this, but it's much more difficult.

That's why the proposed plan of action is to teleport into deep space first, so that the WoF is immovable with respect to that point in space, rather than the Earth.

I'd probably allow a planet to break a WoF, though. I'd also allow for the insane, and probably still catasrophic, damage that would result from such a collision. Consider--it's a meteor that's immune to the atmosphere, slamming into the Earth at the Earth's speed. As it passes through the atmosphere at several thousand mph, the air explodes; huge shockwaves precede the shattering earthquakes that begin once the ground impacts the WoF. Still plenty of destruction, I think. Consider: your WoF, at a very modest (since you're teleporting into the freakin' depths of space) CL 20, has surface area of 200 sq ft. This is about 1/3 to 1/5 the size of the Tunguska Event's (probable) meteor cause. And yours isn't going to burn up in atmosphere. Ouch.

[Volkov]

Needs more Awaken Construct. Now it can take class levels, and call itself Ego.

No, he needs to use wish to turn it into a giant transformer.

[Forever Curious]

Needs more Awaken Construct. Now it can take class levels, and call itself Ego.

...ladies and gentlemen, my next campaign setting

[Volkov]

...ladies and gentlemen, my next campaign setting

Mine's better.

[ericgrau]

Consider--it's a meteor that's immune to the atmosphere

Actually propelling a flat object at thousands of miles per hour through the earth's atmosphere will do considerable damage. If a level 32 character with a PrC can break it, then the atmosphere probably can too (if any object can). So there's a brief flash of light, the wall of force is torn to pieces a mile above the earth's surface, theoretical optimizers go back to finding ways to break the game using rules instead of physics and the DM gets on with his campaign. Unfortunately the catgirls still suffer.

[Dr Bwaa]

WoF is immune to fire, and presumably won't heat up as it goes through the atmosphere, so unless it breaks on its initial contact with the upper atmosphere (which, arguably, could happen), it probably won't break until it hits the ground.

I'm just saying my interpretation of the situation, after all :p

[Lapak]

... what is this 'outer space' of which you speak? And why would you assume that the world moves? Any fool can see that the sun and stars move about the world.

My standard response to 'I teleport X into the SUN!' would be to have the pissed-off Sun God come down in his chariot and smite the idiot who just popped a villain into the back seat of his ride. And the response to outer space shenanigans along these lines is for the caster to find himself adrift in the Astral plane, where he can sit until he gets a chance to prepare Plane Shift and get back to the completely-stationary Material Plane where he belongs.

[Volkov]

... what is this 'outer space' of which you speak? And why would you assume that the world moves? Any fool can see that the sun and stars move about the world.

My standard response to 'I teleport X into the SUN!' would be to have the pissed-off Sun God come down in his chariot and smite the idiot who just popped a villain into the back seat of his ride. And the response to outer space shenanigans along these lines is for the caster to find himself adrift in the Astral plane, where he can sit until he gets a chance to prepare Plane Shift and get back to the completely-stationary Material Plane where he belongs.

Or the Sun says no, because the Sun is a sapient entity, a very, very, very large sapient entity.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Assuming you could make the wall immovable in outer space and outer space worked like real world outer space and the world couldn't destroy it (the world "attacking" something should have some impressve effects) a some wizard would have divined that this was going to happen even and would teleport in and disintegrate the wall.

Was this a serious question or am I being a wet towel?

[Ravens_cry]

... what is this 'outer space' of which you speak? And why would you assume that the world moves? Any fool can see that the sun and stars move about the world.

My standard response to 'I teleport X into the SUN!' would be to have the pissed-off Sun God come down in his chariot and smite the idiot who just popped a villain into the back seat of his ride. And the response to outer space shenanigans along these lines is for the caster to find himself adrift in the Astral plane, where he can sit until he gets a chance to prepare Plane Shift and get back to the completely-stationary Material Plane where he belongs.

Depends on the setting. Golarian, for example, is explicitly a spherical world that orbits a sun, as is Oerth, while Hollow World is just that.
Creativity is something a DM should encourage, in my opinion.

[Volkov]

Depends on the setting. Golarian, for example, is explicitly a spherical world that orbits a sun, as is Oerth, while Hollow World is just that.

Liga orbits Oerth, not the other way around. Plus, Liga is not an actual star, it's just a huge ball of molten material that is much, much smaller than any real star.

[erikun]

That's why the proposed plan of action is to teleport into deep space first, so that the WoF is immovable with respect to that point in space, rather than the Earth.

Relativity would like to have a word with you, good sir. You are abusing it horribly.

[lsfreak]

... what is this 'outer space' of which you speak? And why would you assume that the world moves? Any fool can see that the sun and stars move about the world.

My standard response to 'I teleport X into the SUN!' would be to have the pissed-off Sun God come down in his chariot and smite the idiot who just popped a villain into the back seat of his ride. And the response to outer space shenanigans along these lines is for the caster to find himself adrift in the Astral plane, where he can sit until he gets a chance to prepare Plane Shift and get back to the completely-stationary Material Plane where he belongs.

D&D default rules assume that the world corresponds to Earth in terms of such things an environment and basic physics.

Your plan has a problem: what happens to walls of force that are actually on the planet? Since they are immovable, consider the following: the Earth rotates at over 1600km/hr, spins about the sun at a speed of 108.000km/hr, and and spins around the galactic core at roughly 800.000km/hr. Simply throwing up a wall of force in a dungeon and you've got major problems, once you start doing silly things like this.

[Haven]

You see, the thing about Walls of Force is--

WHAM

What the f*** was that?!

[Volkov]

That's why the proposed plan of action is to teleport into deep space first, so that the WoF is immovable with respect to that point in space, rather than the Earth.

Einstein is rolling in his grave with this comment.

[Haven]

Anyway, that said:

D&D default rules assume that the world corresponds to Earth in terms of such things an environment and basic physics.

True, but "basic physics" doesn't extend to astrophysics, where the closest--and, moreover, awesomest--canonical precedent is Spelljammer.

[absolmorph]

D&D default rules assume that the world corresponds to Earth in terms of such things an environment and basic physics.

Your plan has a problem: what happens to walls of force that are actually on the planet? Since they are immovable, consider the following: the Earth rotates at over 1600km/hr, spins about the sun at a speed of 108.000km/hr, and and spins around the galactic core at roughly 800.000km/hr. Simply throwing up a wall of force in a dungeon and you've got major problems, once you start doing silly things like this.

Only if you're trying to make the WoF immovable in respect to the galactic core.
I'd say the wall is immovable in respect to the original position of the caster at the time of casting.

Also: Violet veil, wall-shaped warding and a Green veil, wall-shaped warding.
Level 16 character (Wizard 9/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7) destroying the world.
Consider the effect of removing a 70 ft by 35 ft rectangle from the earth. All the way through. Of course, it would be curved, and probably would miss the core, but it still would do a lot of damage. Add in the ability to throw up a few Walls of Force, and the world is pretty much done.
NOTE: The given character could throw up 12 WoFs. Each one would consist of up to 16 10-foot squares.
This gives 12 80 by 80 squares of force, unaffected by most things and immovable, and 1 70 ft by 35 ft rectangle that disintegrates all objects and kills anything that can't make a Fort DC of 22 (or higher, but I'm going for the minimum). I'd consider that a pretty major effect (especially if the walls are separated by about 30 ft. Twelve shockwaves running into each other are gonna cause more damage than one really big one.

[Volkov]

Only if you're trying to make the WoF immovable in respect to the galactic core.
I'd say the wall is immovable in respect to the original position of the caster at the time of casting.

Also: Violet veil, wall-shaped warding and a Green veil, wall-shaped warding.
Level 16 character (Wizard 9/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7) destroying the world.
Consider the effect of removing a 70 ft by 35 ft rectangle from the earth. All the way through. Of course, it would be curved, and probably would miss the core, but it still would do a lot of damage. Add in the ability to throw up a few Walls of Force, and the world is pretty much done.
NOTE: The given character could throw up 12 WoFs. Each one would consist of up to 16 10-foot squares.
This gives 12 80 by 80 squares of force, unaffected by most things and immovable, and 1 70 ft by 35 ft rectangle that disintegrates all objects and kills anything that can't make a Fort DC of 22 (or higher, but I'm going for the minimum). I'd consider that a pretty major effect (especially if the walls are separated by about 30 ft. Twelve shockwaves running into each other are gonna cause more damage than one really big one.

Gravity will simply reform the planet around the walls.

[absolmorph]

Gravity will simply reform the planet around the walls.

The main damage will be caused by the shock waves.
Cities would be torn to pieces. People would burn. Many things would die.
All in all, a pretty good use of his spells for the day.

[Volkov]

The main damage will be caused by the shock waves.
Cities would be torn to pieces. People would burn. Many things would die.
All in all, a pretty good use of his spells for the day.

Yes, but it's still a planet that is still around, thus meaning you failed your objective of DESTROYING the planet, wiping out all life or civilization is a trivial task compared to utterly destroying one.

[absolmorph]

Yes, but it's still a planet that is still around, thus meaning you failed your objective of DESTROYING the planet, wiping out all life or civilization is a trivial task compared to utterly destroying one.

That's just the first day, and you forgot that the planet reforming to fill the space would also cause massive earthquakes.
I mean, really, if you want to destroy the world, just create a coil gun using pure force for the projectile. Make it about a mile long. That should destroy the world. And create a ton of asteroids.

[erikun]

That probably wouldn't do it, but creating a portal to the Plane of Vacuum would be trivally easy to do if you wanted to get rid of all matter on the planet. Or you could animate the planet, then create a portal to the Positive Energy Plane. Yay, spontaneously exploding temporary HP!

[Brendan]

remember, the earth is moving thousands of miles an hour as is, but the WoF keeps in movement with the planet. I think it just would also continue moving around the sun at a high velocity.

[Superglucose]

Gravity will simply reform the planet around the walls.

Specifically, number 9. In short: not if you do it hard enough!