Warlocks. Or: Help Out a Newbie.

[Fayd]

Greetings Playgrounders!

In the fall, I will be in my first 3.5 campaign. I know the rules and such well enough to play competently, thankfully. What I am looking for is advice with a character build, primary purpose: Fun. (I REALLY don't want to overshadow the rest of the party)

So: I want to play a Warlock. I love the class, for reason's I am still trying to figure out. I have already decided on Changeling for my race, which leaves me naturally in the role of party face (Beguiling Influence says hi) I'm looking for things to do, feats to pick up, gear to buy or make, and invocations to learn. I have the following limitations:

I really want a maximum of one crafting feat. I don't want to craft a whole lot.
No Tome of Battle.
I don't mind taking Extra Invokations repeatedly. Admittedly it can be a little boring (I'm taking this feat AGAIN) but it gives a lot of fun tools.
I will be Chaotic Neutral (Fey flavored, obviously) so nothing with [evil] in the description.

Everything else is fair game. I'd like to have a few essences, and a shape or two. Fell Flight is a must, as well as Beguiling Influence.

I found this while googling for advice, and it is currently under consideration... although I don't know the source (if anyone can help with that, I'd be very thankful.) Is it terribly overpowered?

General advice is also accepted.

Thank you all so much! Have a nice day, ok?

[sofawall]

Considering that site is made up of the SRD+Homebrew, and that isn't the SRD, I'd imagine it's homebrew.

For the record, DandDWiki is a terrible, terrible site. By and large, the homebrew is poor, the organization is confusing, and the optimized builds, well, aren't.

EDIT: City Appeal, despite the odd name, makes sense and is not a huge power boost to the Warlock, as long as you aren't going Diplomancer with it.

Detect Thoughts is a damn sight more powerful than Detect Magic, and the save is odd. Why 12+Cha instead of the more traditional 10+1/2HD+Cha?

Mutable Anatomy is better than Fiendish Resilience, although that isn't saying much. The text is odd, although the example clarifies intent.

[Fayd]

True. But... I rather like this particular example, and it seems roughly in line with other Changeling racial substitutions. I think.

[Runestar]

If you like crafting but don't want to blow too many feats on crafting feats, consider taking 2 lvs of chameleon (prc from races of destiny, but also available for free on the wotc website) after warlock12. It grants a floating feat (which you can change every day), which allows you to pick up the crafting feat of your choice (and change it as and when circumstances dictate).

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b

It does require that you go human and have the able learner feat, so you may want to start planning right from the start.

[Optimystik]

1) Your first stop for ideas, as always, should be a class handbook - in this case, the Warlock Handbook

2) Unless I'm missing out on sources, Changelings don't have Warlock racial sub levels. Those, like many items on dandwiki, would therefore be homebrew. (The official Changeling subs in Races of Eberron are Egoist, Wizard and Rogue.)

3) The social part of being a Warlock is easy, so how do you want to handle combat? Melee or ranged?

[sofawall]

Reposting since my edit was posted under.

City Appeal, despite the odd name, makes sense and is not a huge power boost to the Warlock, as long as you aren't going Diplomancer with it.

Detect Thoughts is a damn sight more powerful than Detect Magic, and the save is odd. Why 12+Cha instead of the more traditional 10+1/2HD+Cha?

Mutable Anatomy is better than Fiendish Resilience, although that isn't saying much. The text is odd, although the example clarifies intent.

[Fayd]

1) Your first stop for ideas, as always, should be a class handbook - in this case, the Warlock Handbook

2) Unless I'm missing out on sources, Changelings don't have Warlock racial sub levels. Those, like many items on dandwiki, would therefore be homebrew. (The official Changeling subs in Races of Eberron are Egoist, Wizard and Rogue.)

3) The social part of being a Warlock is easy, so how do you want to handle combat? Melee or ranged?

1. Oooh. Shiny. Handbooks are fun. Perusing...

2. Ah. That'd explain that. Well, I'll let him know that it's homebrew, so I might not get to use it (which is fine.)

3. Ranged. Definitely Ranged.

Thanks for the analysis Sofawall. I don't know why the things are odd, but the homebrew bit is probably it.

[demidracolich]

If you want to be really far ranged you can use a tactic my friend likes to use which is use eldritch spear and snipe them from all the way across the battlefield.

[sofawall]

I forgot to give my final assessment!

Flavorful and powerful, but not overly so. I'd take away a Least or Lesser Invocation known as well as Detect Magic to get Detect Thoughts at will, but that's just me playing in a social-focused game right now. The fact that you also have to take a sub-optimal race for Warlocks (No Dex or Cha, for example) makes this something I would likely allow in one of my games, with the small added cost for the second feature.

[The Shadowmind]

The Chameleon PrC, and Able Learner feat should be allowed for Changelings from the adaptation section, for Eberron settings, but you need to grab that feat at first level. You could also you the bonus feat for extra invocation to swap out a grade below max each day, which gives a lot of utility.

[Fayd]

Well, the DM just nixed the substitution levels, so nevermind about that.

And are we thinking the right changeling? Near as I know there weren't any stat changes at all. Am I correct? I don't own many (read: any, at the moment) books, (I have a lot of friends who do...) so...

[PId6]

Detect Thoughts is a damn sight more powerful than Detect Magic, and the save is odd. Why 12+Cha instead of the more traditional 10+1/2HD+Cha?

I'm guessing it's supposed to act as an SLA, which is 10 + spell level + Cha (in this case 12 + Cha since Detect Thoughts is a 2nd level spell). However, since it's a Su ability, it should really be changed to 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha.

[sofawall]

And are we thinking the right changeling? Near as I know there weren't any stat changes at all. Am I correct? I don't own many (read: any, at the moment) books, (I have a lot of friends who do...) so...

Assuming you are talking to me, we are thinking of the same. I said that Changelings have no bonus to Cha or Dex.

I'm guessing it's supposed to act as an SLA, which is 10 + spell level + Cha (in this case 12 + Cha since Detect Thoughts is a 2nd level spell).

Completely didn't think of that. Wow. Silly sofawall.

[Fayd]

Assuming you are talking to me, we are thinking of the same. I said that Changelings have no bonus to Cha or Dex.

This was another case of me failing reading comprehension. I, for whatever reason, misinterpreted that Changelings had a penalty to it. And was therefore quite confused. And now I am NOT confused, thank you.

[Redrat2k6]

Well http://bertball.com/MySRD/srd/classes/warlock2.htm is something I found awhile ago that is a really nice improvement to the warlock class, if you can get it approved. I find the Official Warlock plays like Tiny Tim... crippled.

Also Eldritch Glaive from Dragon Magic is the best Invocation ever. Makes your Eldritch Blast into a Glaive that uses your BAB (with extra attacks) as touch attacks.

Combine that with some Spiked armor and your set if you ever find yourself in melee.

Fell Flight or Flee the Scene is nice in most encounters. And Vitriolic Blast is a must because it is your only weapon against creatures with SR.

[JeminiZero]

What is your starting level? If its high enough you can consider going 3 Warlock / 1 Sorcerer / X Eldritch Theurge. Use either Precocious Apprentice or some Versatile Spellcaster combo for early qualification of Eldritch Theurge. Also remember to grab Practiced Spellcaster for the Sorcerer.

This adds a bunch of Sorcerer tricks to your Warlock (grab Wings of Cover). While your Sorc spells will be 3 levels behind a normal Sorc, Eldritch Theurge has some class features which let you add your spells to Eldritch Blast which saves on the Action economy.

Going Eldritch Thuerge also lets you qualify for the Face Changer reserve feat level 9, that basically lets you cast Disguise Self at will, and which stacks with your Changeling bonus.

[Fayd]

Level 1, so... not so much. And I basically already have Disguise Self at will.

I don't know how keen I am on taking a prestige class either. I mean, I'm not opposed, but I don't want to be really complicated either.

EDIT: And homebrew in general isn't looking too hot for approval. So...

[The Shadowmind]

I'd go with Able Learner as your first level feat, and if you get to that level take chameleon at 7th and 8th level so you can get extra invocation (least) as your bonus feat from that, swapping out whenever you need something else for the day, the continue on the warlock progression.

[Optimystik]

I don't know how keen I am on taking a prestige class either. I mean, I'm not opposed, but I don't want to be really complicated either.

The thing is, there's no reason to stay in Warlock past 12 (i.e. when you get Imbue Item.) Nothing you get from more warlock levels is better than PrCing out, unless the PrC you choose loses a bunch of CL.

Do you have Races of the Wild? Ruathar is a great PrC for a feylock, first for the flavor, second because it's so easy to qualify for and third because it opens up a ton of other fey-themed PrCs like Sentinel of Bharrai and Swanmay.

[Fayd]

I am liking the Chameleon 2 thing more and more... Is there any way to make up for the lost Dark Invocation? The most important thing for me is to have as full Invoker progression as possible.

By the way, thanks very much for this help.

[tyckspoon]

I am liking the Chameleon 2 thing more and more... Is there any way to make up for the lost Dark Invocation? The most important thing for me is to have as full Invoker progression as possible.

By the way, thanks very much for this help.

Honestly? If you're starting at level 1 and you don't know how rapidly the DM likes to advance characters.. I wouldn't worry about Dark Invocations. Plan up to 5ish (you probably won't have made any excessively crippling decisions by then- for example, if you decide you don't want to go for Chameleon, Able Learner is still a pretty useful feat.) At that point, you should have a good enough idea of the group's stability and leveling pace to know whether or not you need to be planning for levels 15+.

[Fayd]

True. Very good point, hadn't considered that... I have a tendency to overplan, so... Yeah. All good advice. I think I'll do that.

Thanks all!

[graeylin]

my two cents...

if you are going for the face of the party, and avoiding melee, then don't worry about blast essences, shapes, etc.. get summon swarm or shatter first, and just use your eldritch blast from a distance. Honestly, without point blank shot and precise shot, shooting into melee with your friends around is -4 anyway, so not your forte unless you want to use those feats up.

there are some magic items you can get to fix that, but not likely at first level. So, you have a choice: as a ranged warlock, you probably need that precise shot tree, or else just use summon swarm and shatter all day long, and forget about blasting once your party is in melee.

craft wondrous item is the only craft feat you will need. with the rules in the MIC, what can't you make as a wondrous item? like that rod of magic spelling? make a circlet instead.... ring of invisibility? make boots instead.

eldritch glaive is a must if you are going to be a melee lock... but if you aren't interested in it, then don't take it. fell flight at 6th level is a must for just awesome coolness, and cause it keeps you away from melee. get flyby attack or hover once you have the flight invocation.

the warlock handbook is pretty good, if a bit chaotic to read. try reading it a couple times, and you will get some good ideas. just remember, at first level, stay out of combat... stand back and shoot or summon or shatter or beguile, just don't duke it out.

[Optimystik]

my two cents...

if you are going for the face of the party, and avoiding melee, then don't worry about blast essences, shapes, etc.. get summon swarm or shatter first, and just use your eldritch blast from a distance. Honestly, without point blank shot and precise shot, shooting into melee with your friends around is -4 anyway, so not your forte unless you want to use those feats up.

All your shots are touch attacks though, so -4 isn't nearly as big a hurdle as it seems.

[The Cat Goddess]

Warlocks should get Knowledge Devotion... the Otherworldly Whispers (Complete Mage) gives you +6 to three major Knowledges and is a good boost to this feat.

[Rainbownaga]

Summon swarm is basically an I-win button for level 1 warlocks: it deals as much damage as your eldritch blast with no chance of missing to 4 adjacent squares and has a chance to nauseate and a secondary effect (either strength damage or bleeding; disease is too slow to be useful).

Shatter is just fun- not as powerful, but it's a second level spell usable at will with an additional power boost.

[PhoenixRivers]

Consider Darkness.

With Drow of the Underdark, you gain access to the feat: Blend into Shadows.

This lets you make a hide check, as a swift action, while being observed. Cost? You have to expend a use of a darkness SLA (it's at will, lol), and you have to be within 10 feet of magical darkness (that you create at will).

In other words? Hide in Plain Sight as early as level 1.

[Greenish]

I don't own many (read: any, at the moment) books, (I have a lot of friends who do...) so...

Crystal Keep.

For invocations, I suggest you pick up Baleful Utterance, Shatter at will is pretty handy.

[Optimystik]

Consider Darkness.

With Drow of the Underdark, you gain access to the feat: Blend into Shadows.

This lets you make a hide check, as a swift action, while being observed. Cost? You have to expend a use of a darkness SLA (it's at will, lol), and you have to be within 10 feet of magical darkness (that you create at will).

In other words? Hide in Plain Sight as early as level 1.

I'll second this suggestion simply because the Darkness invocation is a natural lead-in to the interesting Child of Night PrC (Tome of Magic.)

[hewhosaysfish]

For invocations, I suggest you pick up Baleful Utterance, Shatter at will is pretty handy.

I will be Chaotic Neutral (Fey flavored, obviously) so nothing with [evil] in the description.

Just a word of warning: the text of Baleful Utterance states that it uses a single syllable of the Dark Speech and give a page reference in the BoVD. Dark Speech is (as the name suggests) the Eeeevil Language Of Eeeevil. How Baleful Utterance interacts with alignment will depend how you DM reads the related section in the BoVD.