Double STR Damage

[Mauther]

Got a new player in my game, and the DM isn't the most solid on the rules. New guy has something that lets him do double STR damage when weilding two handed, instead of STR and a half. Its early on (level 2, pretty much core rules with the complete books added on) so I can't see how that possible. I can think of some prestige slasses and magic items/spells, but at second level? Anyways, I don't want to call shennanigans if the guys innocent, but I also don't like seeing people take advantage of a trusting DM (he's story heavy, rules light). Any ideas on what I'm missing?

[Keld Denar]

The only things I can think of that even allow that are the Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow ability, which isn't accessable until ECL7, and having more than 2 arms and gripping a weapon with 4 arms. I think Diopsid can do that by ECL2, but I'd have to check quick.

EDIT: I just read through the description of Diopsids in the Dragon Compendium, and while it doesn't say anything about using all 4 arms to wield a single weapon, it does say that they can wield a pair of 2-handed weapons. I don't see anything restricting them from using a single 2-handed weapon in all 4 arms, so a Diopsid with a greatsword would get 2x Str bonus, IIRC. Maybe 2.5x...

[AmberVael]

Are you sure you're not thinking of the ability to deal twice as much damage with power attack?
Alternately, couldn't you just ask what it is that lets him do that? Maybe it's a misunderstanding?

[NEO|Phyte]

The only things I can think of that even allow that are the Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow ability, which isn't accessable until ECL7, and having more than 2 arms and gripping a weapon with 4 arms. I think Diopsid can do that by ECL2, but I'd have to check quick.

EDIT: I just read through the description of Diopsids in the Dragon Compendium, and while it doesn't say anything about using all 4 arms to wield a single weapon, it does say that they can wield a pair of 2-handed weapons. I don't see anything restricting them from using a single 2-handed weapon in all 4 arms, so a Diopsid with a greatsword would get 2x Str bonus, IIRC. Maybe 2.5x...

Rules for more than 2-handed weapons are in Savage Species, the weapon has to be specifically made for it, and it's an extra .5Str for each extra hand. caps at 8 hands for a 2handed weapon IIRC.

[arguskos]

The only things I can think of that even allow that are the Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow ability, which isn't accessable until ECL7, and having more than 2 arms and gripping a weapon with 4 arms. I think Diopsid can do that by ECL2, but I'd have to check quick.

EDIT: I just read through the description of Diopsids in the Dragon Compendium, and while it doesn't say anything about using all 4 arms to wield a single weapon, it does say that they can wield a pair of 2-handed weapons. I don't see anything restricting them from using a single 2-handed weapon in all 4 arms, so a Diopsid with a greatsword would get 2x Str bonus, IIRC. Maybe 2.5x...

Diopsids have no special rules for multi-handing a single weapon, so they'd go to the default rules for it, which I believe are that you add .5 Str for each hand after the second, though don't quote me on that. Given that, I think that means a Diopsid would be getting 2.5x Str on a weapon if they quad-handed it.

Yes, those rules are from Savage Species, page 42.

[Escheton]

Does he need to make a jump to do so or does it count on every hit?

[Greenish]

Does he need to make a jump to do so or does it count on every hit?

Leap Attack requires 5th level (or rather, 8 ranks in Jump).

[Another_Poet]

Are you sure you're not thinking of the ability to deal twice as much damage with power attack?

That was my thought.

Alternately, couldn't you just ask what it is that lets him do that? Maybe it's a misunderstanding?

And my other thought.

[Keld Denar]

Why would they need to make a jump check? Diopsid's are insectile, meaning they have 6 limbs. 4 are for holding weapons, 2 are for walking. No jumping needed.

Now, if the OPs friends' PC is making a lot of jump checks, there is a good chance he has the Battle Jump regional feat from Unapproachable East. That would double ALL damage, including Str damage. If the PC was Battle Jumping with a 1handed weapon, that would result in double Str damage as the end result. It would also result in double weapon damage and double all-other-static-bonuses as well. Battle Jump is a 1st level feat, and thus accessable at ECL2, unlike its big brother Leap Attack, which is not.

[Mauther]

Unless I've really blown my spot check, he's only got 2 arms, so that should take out monstrous compendium, and I don't recall any jumping, its mainly rage based.

I may go ahead and ask him, I just didn't want to bring it up if there was something obvious I was missing. We run a pretty trusting group, so actually asking would be a bit of a departure. I don't really want to make the guy feel unwelcome.

[AstralFire]

It's entirely possible it is a mistake.

[AmberVael]

I may go ahead and ask him, I just didn't want to bring it up if there was something obvious I was missing. We run a pretty trusting group, so actually asking would be a bit of a departure. I don't really want to make the guy feel unwelcome.

Well then, don't ask him in an accusatory way. Ask him out of curiosity. Not distrusting, just wanting to know what part of his build did that (because you've obviously never heard of it before).

I mean, you might want to use it yourself sometime.

And heck, even I'm curious at this point. There IS some vague memory I have of a feat or something that does that, but I can't remember or find it.

[Person_Man]

I'm guessing it's a mistake as well. But from a functional level, at that level the extra +50% from Str means a +3ish to damage, which wouldn't be hard to replicate via a variety of other means.

[Grommen]

I too think it's a mistake. Not a major one.

There is this exact feat in the Quintessential Warriors book by Mongoose. You can use double your STR bonus for attacks and damage, but you can't use Improved Initiative. Not saying that you can't have it on your character but you can't use the two together. And as far as I know you can use Power attack as well.

But now were all wondering about it. I really don't see how asking this brakes the trust bond. Your not accusing him, your just wondering what we all missed.

[Kaiyanwang]

I too think it's a mistake. Not a major one.
There is this exact feat in the Quintessential Warriors book by Mongoose. You can use double your STR bonus for attacks and damage, but you can't use Improved Initiative. Not saying that you can't have it on your character but you can't use the two together. And as far as I know you can use Power attack as well.

So.. the feats forbids you to use something you may have ?

OP: I think, too, that is a mistake.

[Grommen]

Just can't use the two together is all. Seems reasonable considering your winding up to hit something so to speak.

[Mauther]

I too think it's a mistake. Not a major one.

There is this exact feat in the Quintessential Warriors book by Mongoose. You can use double your STR bonus for attacks and damage, but you can't use Improved Initiative. Not saying that you can't have it on your character but you can't use the two together. And as far as I know you can use Power attack as well.

But now were all wondering about it. I really don't see how asking this brakes the trust bond. Your not accusing him, your just wondering what we all missed.

Oddly enough this smells right. I'd be disappointed if this turns out to be the case, the party had agreed not to use 3rd party sourcebooks and while Mongoose has a pretty good reputation its an option the rest of the party simply didn't have.

This guy is one of those players who's always hiding his character and making vague references to his abilities ("remember I have that ability if anything you know what happens") so I worry that he's tweaking above the DM's comfort level. He's sat in on games before and he has a history of interpretting rules in an interesting manner. As several people have pointed out, its only annoying. Its not like he's kicking over the game board and running roughshod over the campaign.

[Thurbane]

The only things I can think of that even allow that are the Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow ability, which isn't accessable until ECL7/

Tangent: are there any decent one handed Exotic weapons to make this worthwhile for a high STR character?

[Quietus]

Tangent: are there any decent one handed Exotic weapons to make this worthwhile for a high STR character?

I don't know the stats on it, but flindbars seem to have a pretty good reputation... 2d4 damage, otherwise as nunchuks or something I think? Outside of that, Dwarven Waraxe would qualify, and a Dwarf/Exotic Weapon Master could get that without buying EWP, too. There's also the whip, and then all the exotic double weapons.. when weilded as two-handed-fighting, one side counts as one-handed. And there's a reference to using them one-handed.. despite every last one of them being two-handed weapons. So I suppose technically you could get EWP: Dire Flail, and just swing it around one handed. It wouldn't be that much goofier than the flail itself, really?

[Adumbration]

Tangent: are there any decent one handed Exotic weapons to make this worthwhile for a high STR character?

I think there's some sort of scimitar-type of 1-handed exotic weapon that fits this fairly well.

EDIT: Great scimitar, that's the one.

[Greenish]

And there's a reference to using them one-handed.. despite every last one of them being two-handed weapons.

There's Ghostspike from some book or other, which is a one-handed double weapon.

[Curmudgeon]

There is this exact feat in the Quintessential Warriors book by Mongoose. You can use double your STR bonus for attacks and damage, but you can't use Improved Initiative.

That's the trouble with a lot of 3rd party material. There's no "using" Improved Initiative, because the feat provides no options: "You get a +4 bonus on initiative checks." Player choice doesn't enter into it in any way once you acquire the feat.

[Person_Man]

The only things I can think of that even allow that are the Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow ability, which isn't accessable until ECL7, and having more than 2 arms and gripping a weapon with 4 arms. I think Diopsid can do that by ECL2, but I'd have to check quick.

There's also the Thrym 3 from Frostburn, who adds an additional 50% when wielding a greataxe.

Tangent: are there any decent one handed Exotic weapons to make this worthwhile for a high STR character?

Lance (from horseback - I'm sure there's an exotic version somewhere), harpoon, spinning sword, and the aforementioned Flindbar. But IMO, it's not worth it unless your Str is sky high. Maybe a Warblade/Warhulk/Exotic Weapon Master.

[Thurbane]

How about the Tigerskull Club from Frostburn? 1d8/x4, bludgeoning & piercing, +2 to trip & disarms? It's like a Morning Star on crack!

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

I doubt this is the case as you stated it is a raging character. But a decisive strike monk can do double damage at 1st level with unarmed and special monk weapons. Perhaps it has something to do with that...but once again it seems not from what was stated.