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2010-08-15, 07:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
so my idea for a villain is this:
the bbeg is a powerful illusionist (wizard in the level 15 range with BBEG superpowers) after generic villainous goals.
his partner is what makes this interesting. he's very low level (3-5, depending on how squishy he can stand to be) but with a power. whatever he believes is reality IS reality (within his general vicinity). so if he thinks he sees the bogey-man, it's suddenly trying to eat him.
this ability has driven him all kinds of insane, so the illusionist is basically the one doing all the work, with the partner being a tool.
my intent is to have the party figure out the connection there, then do something like use their own illusions against the wizard (the challenge being he's better at illusions), kill the partner (which has moral implications), or separate them (with the wizard's wards and such, its a logistics problem)
but before i go scribbling plot-lines and dungeon layouts, I'd like some input from someone who isn't me. in premise, is there anything that would make this a bad idea? would this reality warping get one side instantly destroyed by some obscure spell, ability, or loophole?Last edited by thubby; 2010-08-15 at 07:06 AM.
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gnome_4ever:
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2010-08-15, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
There are a lot of ways this could backfire, really.
The party convinces his partner that the illusionist is a good guy.
The party convinces the partner that there is a lot of treasure in the room next door.
The party convinces the partner that they are famous an invincible heroes.Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-08-15, 07:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- Land of Magic and Ponies
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
Remember: Hope springs eternal. The dark days will pass and the sun will shine again.
The best way to learn something is to ask, so ask without shame.
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2010-08-15, 07:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever:
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2010-08-15, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Gender
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
Maybe give this a well-defined mechanic? Perhaps illusions cannot be disbelieved, even by their creators, in the presence of this person, and all illusion effects are considered shadow effects with 100% pseudoreality.
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2010-08-15, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
Input: This is a very clever idea, and your basic premise is rock-solid. Unfortunately, I'd give you maybe 1 chance in 10 of getting your intended solution to work. The challenge is that your plan is basically, "My intent is to have the party do X, then do Y, then do Z." You're thinking like the author of a novel or a movie script in which you can reliably control the protagonists' actions. Your players can't be controlled so easily. They are all but guaranteed to miss the connection, charge in and attack the wizard, blow up the entire castle with barrels of alchemist's fire, or do something even more improbable that you could never have anticipated.
A more realistic goal would be to keep your villainous plot as-is, lay some hints that the problem can be solved by doing XYZ, then batten the hatches and prepare for anything, because you never know what players will or will not do.Subclasses for 5E: magus of blades, shadowcraft assassin, spellthief, void disciple
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2010-08-15, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
Perhaps you can limit the insane guy's power so it isn't as open ended? For example, it could be limited to replicating Shadow Conjuration but up to 9th level conjuration spells. That way you don't need to worry about him unmaking the world,. or turning your players into deities, but still have him create a wide variety of magical effects and monsters.
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2010-08-15, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
Yes, I agree that the partner makes things too uncontrollable. They could tell him every other villain in the game doesn't exist...then tell him that he is dead.
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2010-08-15, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Gender
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2010-08-15, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Near Atlanta,GA USA
- Gender
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
I agree on a power cap... but I wouldn't limit it to Conjuration. Shadow Evocation and such should also be on the list... but that makes it allow a Will save every time (which is bad I think). I would limit it to Wish 1/round without XP cost and as a free action, and only able to effect things that are within... oh say 200 feet of him (and any physical objects or creatures vanish when they leave his LOS while more that 200 feet away from him, otherwise the BBEG has infinite money, equipment, and low level magic items if he can work it right). I would be very wary of what happens after the party wins (unless that is the end of the campaign),
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2010-08-15, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
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2010-08-15, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
What level are the players at when they encounter this villain?
If they are all level 1, DracoDei's idea of wish 1/round may be a bit powerful...but might work if replaced by LIMITED wish. If they are level 30 then even with wish 1/round, a level 3-5 would be obliterated.
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2010-08-15, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
Re: villain needs idiot-proofing (3.5)
for limitations, i do like the wish idea. gives it a good mechanical grounding. but i was also thinking his ability would be limited (or enhanced) by what he understands.
he couldn't bring in a full powered dragon because as far as he knows, dragons fly, shoot fire, and eat your face, but don't go around casting anti-magic fields. or on the other end, a troll he makes might regenerate faster.
edit: i was thinking the campaign would start at 12ish and end around 20. and yes, i intend this villain to be the last one for the party. post-game world wrecking is acceptable.Last edited by thubby; 2010-08-15 at 09:09 PM.
a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever: