Would you approve this spell, as a DM?

[WarKitty]

Looking at a custom researched spell:

True Reincarnate

Level: Drd 6
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell functions as reincarnate, except that the new body is of the same race as the previous incarnation.

Material Component
Rare oils and unguents worth a total of least 5,000 gp, spread over the remains.

It's a bit of a duplication of Raise Dead, but we're in a no-cleric party and the DM is rather stingy with purchasing magic.

[Kobold-Bard]

Maybe let either the caster or the recipient choose their form? If they still want to come back as they were then that's fine, just a way to differenciate it from Raise Dead and keep the Reincarnate flavour.

[WarKitty]

Maybe let either the caster or the recipient choose their form? If they still want to come back as they were then that's fine, just a way to differenciate it from Raise Dead and keep the Reincarnate flavour.

Possibly. My concern is whether that could be considered a power upgrade to the spell (as you could choose the most powerful form).

[Saph]

Power-wise it's fine, but it's a bit boring. I think it's more interesting if druidic and clerical magic works differently when it comes to raising the dead - druids can do it sooner and more cheaply, but with a major drawback. So I'd probably say no.

[Malbordeus]

its a drawback? :P

[cheezewizz2000]

Perhaps provide a more restricted list of reincarnateables, all of the humanoid type. Less chance of coming back as a kobold or bugbear in that case. Switch the name up to greater reincarnate and then produce a 4th (or maybe even 3rd) level spell with a much broader list of possible results (say, including badgers). Make a "true" reincarnate a 9th level spell. The main "issue" with reincarnate is that you come back with a young adult body, so you can effectively live forever if you have a druid buddy. Just kill yourself when you hit venerable, and come back with mental stats intact, and your physical stats appropriate to your new form. If you keep doing this for 1000s of years, your mental stats will steadily climb through the roof (though much much slower than with other cheese).

[Kobold-Bard]

...

Then an Inevitable comes along and chops your face off.

[JeminiZero]

From a purely mechanical perspective, I would peg the price to be higher than Raise Dead's 5,000 gp, and possibly higher even than Resurrection's 10,000 gp. Like Resurrection, Reincarnate can work so long as it has a small fragment of the original creature (unlike Raise Dead which requires an intact corpse).

Furthermore, Reincarnate returns the subject to Young Adult Boy and can be used to undo ageing penalties. However, unlike Ressurection, (True) Reincarnate does not work on targets killed by Death Effects, or turned into an Undead. One might argue that these factors balance out, and thusly True Reincarnate should be the same level and cost as Ressurection.

[Tyndmyr]

Putting it on par with Rez seems appropriate.

[bokodasu]

I wouldn't allow it; Druids shouldn't get a more powerful, less expensive resurrection ability. I would probably allow a karma-adjusting spell that you could cast before reincarnating a body - let it double the chance of getting the same race you had, or increase the chances of getting x number of bodies and reduce the chances of y number, or something like that. (Could also be fun for non-allies; "Sorry we had to reincarnate the prince as a kobold; couple more deaths and he should be right as rain.")

[BlackSheep]

Are you running a no cleric party because of the setting or because of player selection? If you just happen to have no clerics in your group, it doesn't seem unreasonable to supply the group with a replacement for some of the cleric's mechanics for the purpose of maintaining game flow.

Now, if the DM has restricted clerics and wants to run a more 'Hardcore' die-and-you're-out game, that's a horse of a different color.

[WarKitty]

Are you running a no cleric party because of the setting or because of player selection? If you just happen to have no clerics in your group, it doesn't seem unreasonable to supply the group with a replacement for some of the cleric's mechanics for the purpose of maintaining game flow.

Now, if the DM has restricted clerics and wants to run a more 'Hardcore' die-and-you're-out game, that's a horse of a different color.

Our cleric quit. I mostly wanted a way to avoid the "your wizard has been reincarnated as a gnoll, you now have a LA and -2 to your casting stat" problem without delaying the spell a huge number of levels - I don't want to have to push it to a 9th level spell when a cleric can do it at 5.

[Lysander]

Perhaps you can simply add a bit more druid flavor. For example make it so the spell can only be cast in a forest glade. It takes 24 hours, during which the trees and grasses connected their roots to the corpse and deliver nutrients to rebuild its tissue cell by cell.

[Tetrasodium]

Our cleric quit. I mostly wanted a way to avoid the "your wizard has been reincarnated as a gnoll, you now have a LA and -2 to your casting stat" problem without delaying the spell a huge number of levels - I don't want to have to push it to a 9th level spell when a cleric can do it at 5.

I'd include Lysander's suggestion and make it 5th or 6th level depending on the party level. Maybe add a temporary shaken debuff or something that kicks in any time the subject does something to willfully harm nature's balance any more than absolutely necessary to survive for a few days/weeks after being brought back. Things like walking on grass or killing a boar as humanely as possible for food are acceptable, casting a fireball in a forest is not.

[WarKitty]

I'd include Lysander's suggestion and make it 5th or 6th level depending on the party level. Maybe add a temporary shaken debuff or something that kicks in any time the subject does something to willfully harm nature's balance any more than absolutely necessary to survive for a few days/weeks after being brought back. Things like walking on grass or killing a boar as humanely as possible for food are acceptable, casting a fireball in a forest is not.

Hmmm not bad. I might even be willing to include some sort of minor quest that the subject has to undertake immediately after being reincarnated.

[Malbordeus]

you can always just maximise your reincarnate or empower it to evade some of the sillier options. :P

[Haarkla]

Looking at a custom researched spell:

True Reincarnate

Level: Drd 6
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell functions as reincarnate, except that the new body is of the same race as the previous incarnation.

Material Component
Rare oils and unguents worth a total of least 5,000 gp, spread over the remains.

It's a bit of a duplication of Raise Dead, but we're in a no-cleric party and the DM is rather stingy with purchasing magic.

No. It's too boring.

If what you want to do is avoid particular forms, what I would do is create an alternative reincarnate table without those forms, and including other acceptable forms and effects, such as change sex, reroll any 3 ability scores (players choice), random spell like ability + drawback, ect.

[Devils_Advocate]

I'd try the following:

"Yo, DM, since the reincarnate spell is borked, howzabout instead of getting that, Druids get the same resurrection spells that Clerics do, but one level later. Like with cure spells. That cool?"

But as to the question in the thread title: Would I, as DM, allow a Druid to have a spell that's basically resurrection, but takes up a spell slot one lower and only has half the cost in material components? No.

[WarKitty]

I'd try the following:

"Yo, DM, since the reincarnate spell is borked, howzabout instead of getting that, Druids get the same resurrection spells that Clerics do, but one level later. Like with cure spells. That cool?"

But as to the question in the thread title: Would I, as DM, allow a Druid to have a spell that's basically resurrection, but takes up a spell slot one lower and only has half the cost in material components? No.

The basis for this spell was supposed to be raise dead, not resurrection - hence why the level is pegged at 6 to raise dead's 5. Personally I'm not sure what the major advantage of resurrection is over raise dead, other than the improved time limit. Sure it cures a few things, but if you're high enough level and have the time to cast raise dead, you should be able to cast restoration and whatever other spells available.

[Reynard]

Raise dead needs the whole body.

Resurrection can do with just a finger, or less.

That's pretty much the difference.

[Glimbur]

Our cleric quit. I mostly wanted a way to avoid the "your wizard has been reincarnated as a gnoll, you now have a LA and -2 to your casting stat" problem without delaying the spell a huge number of levels - I don't want to have to push it to a 9th level spell when a cleric can do it at 5.

You don't get penalties to your mental scores from Reincarnate. At most, you might lose your bonuses from your previous race, depending on how you interpret the spell. LA and Racial Hit dice still seem to be a problem, but... consider coup de grace and Last Breath from the Spell Compendium if you want to re-roll reincarnate.

[WarKitty]

Raise dead needs the whole body.

Resurrection can do with just a finger, or less.

That's pretty much the difference.

Oooo missed that bit. Perhaps just add a line saying "In order to create a new body of the same race, the old body must be taken to a special grove where it undergoes an accelerated decay and is recycled into the new form." Or something like that, I'll work the fluff out.

Edit: Good point to the mental stats. Would still suck for the half-orc fighter being reincarnated as a halfling, or anyone being reincarnated as one of the +2 races. Wouldn't it change favored class as well?

[Reis Tahlen]

As it is a "True" reincarnate, why not alleviate the random factor, and make the target reincarnate in a body who reflects what he did in his previous life?...

... Well, could be hard to put in play, but could be fun.

[WarKitty]

As it is a "True" reincarnate, why not alleviate the random factor, and make the target reincarnate in a body who reflects what he did in his previous life?...

... Well, could be hard to put in play, but could be fun.

Very fun, no idea how to work it out, and not going to work it out right now.

[The_Admiral]

How about giving this spell as a spell like ability to a race

[WarKitty]

How about giving this spell as a spell like ability to a race

Yeah that sounds a bit *too* powerful, at least for a PC race. The original idea was to allow our no-cleric party a way to get dead PC's back without having to hunt down the appropriate NPC.

[The_Admiral]

Limit it to 12 times total and only work on self

[Lhurgyof]

There's a higher level reincarnate in Masters of the Wild. Level nine, I think. And it allows you to roll TWICE, not be the same, so I'd say no.

[WarKitty]

There's a higher level reincarnate in Masters of the Wild. Level nine, I think. And it allows you to roll TWICE, not be the same, so I'd say no.

That is...really quite ridiculous. A cleric can cast True Resurrection at that level. I understand class specialization, but really at that point you're just making it a class tax (i.e. every party must have a cleric).

[Lhurgyof]

That is...really quite ridiculous. A cleric can cast True Resurrection at that level. I understand class specialization, but really at that point you're just making it a class tax (i.e. every party must have a cleric).

True Reincarnate
Trans.
Druid 9
Components: V,S,DF,XP
Casting Time: 10 mins.

Works like reincarnate, but up to 10 years/caster level. Can work on someone who's body was destroyed Roll twice on the table, no level loss, but you must spend 1,000 xp.

Just looked it up.

The druid splatbook didn't have as much nice things as you'd find for clerics, probably because of -cough cough- wild shape and animal companion -cough cough-