Looking for effective SRD melee classes..

[Maho-Tsukai]

My friends and I are looking to create a game/system that is essentually ballanced 3.5e and thus are in dire need of a good SRD melee class. This is not looking to be a buisness venture and if we ever do decide to make it a purchasable product it will not run that much. This is not a buisness venture. It's just a bunch of friends trying to make a ballanced version of 3.5e.

We are looking to balance 3.5e by eliminating both the broken classes(Wizard, Cleric, Druid ect..) and the really stinky ones. Spellcasting is now handled by refluffed psionics who's point mechanic is refluffed as "mana." Melee, however, is where we need to find something. Since ToB is not SRD it is sadly out of the question. Fighters and such, however are just too stinky and even with psionics=spellcasting they will seem weaker then the casters. Thus, we are looking for SRD options for a good melee class(es) that will take little to no homebrew to make viable and on somewhat equal footing with the "casters."

So, dose anybody have some ideas?

[Zergrusheddie]

Psychic Warriors are nice melee classes, and might really shine since you removed The Big Three. Horizon Tripper is probably the most powerful SRD only melee build that doesn't utilize Psionics. Wolf Totem and Whirling Frenzy make a Barbarian pretty nasty, especially with Knockdown.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah, a psywar is still a "caster" however, and yeah, Barbarians can be alright but will they actually look useful next to a psionic/"caster?" However, if we REALLY wanted to we could just remove mundane classes all together and more or less have a more "shonen anime" type game where even the melee fighters have superpowers/magic.. as appose to a "traditional fantasy" one. However, that would just more or less be a 4e clone that borrows more from 3.5e then 4e itself dose.

[Psyren]

Horizon Tripper is core-only.

If you like gishes, you can also do:
Psywar 20
Cleric 20
Druid 20
Ranger 2/Psion 8/Slayer 10
Paladin 2/Wilder 18
or one of those Eldritch Knight builds.

[AstralFire]

You're not going to find non-homebrew totally SRD solutions. Sorry.

[Kylarra]

You're not going to find non-homebrew totally SRD solutions. Sorry.

Yeah, this. Short of homebrewing something, no one is going to come up with a magical way out of the SRD for a single classed melee fighter non-caster by your definition to be tier 3.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Maybe...maybe not. We could always just use a system similar to Naruto D20 and have the mundane classes have "martial arts" which are tied too certain skill(s) and can be learned by any non-caster. It would allow for the same kind of thing as "maneuvers" without actually using ToB mechanics and thus able to get by legal issues. Though I personally suck at actual crunch homebrew so I would have to enlist somebody else from my inner circle to make such "martial arts." but nobody in my inner circle is an experienced homebrewer so thus actually making such a thing would be difficult for most of us.

However, I could just eliminate non-casters all together, though that would take things away from the realm of traditional fantasy and may seem a bit "4e-esc" with everybody having powers and whatnot..

Either that or scarp the idea all together and just play 1e/2e when we want "balanced" D&D...or try and find somebody who's actually experienced with homebrew to help us out.

[AstralFire]

First, allow me to laugh. Naruto d20. The overwhelming majority of fan conversion projects are really pretty terrible considering the amount of authors and time spent on them.

Next: You're homebrewing by default here, so yes, that is your escape from "you cannot get what you're looking for without homebrew while staying in the SRD."

You can use a variety of premade fixes and tweaks easily to these classes, but honestly, bite the bullet and pay the $30 for Tome of Battle. It does the job better, it does the job quickly, and it's a resource that newcomers can easily reference and extend more respect than the latest DM's homebrew batch.

[Maho-Tsukai]

I already own a copy of the tome of battle. The main point of this project is to create something that will be widely available for others to use and not just something for us and only us. Thus, even a free pdf like NarutoD20 and other fan supplements(which is what we are aiming to create) would have to adhere to the OGL and thus can't use ToB. The only other way I can think of which would make this "widely available" would be to post it on a forum but even then it would not be looked at by many because, "it's homebrew from a forum"(Though I admit posting on the playground or ENworld would make it SOMEWHAT more "trusted" then if it where on say D&D wiki.)

[JeminiZero]

Maybe instead of Naruto, you could try emulating the Hulk.

[AstralFire]

I'd look into Szatany's Ultimate Classes (off-site) and d20r.

[Zergrusheddie]

Yeah, a psywar is still a "caster" however, and yeah, Barbarians can be alright but will they actually look useful next to a psionic/"caster?".

I believe the accepted idiom around here is "Only Magic/Psionics will stand up to Magic/Psionics." However, a Psychic Warrior isn't quite a caster, at least no more than a Bard is.

Dwarf Ranger2/Barbarian2/Ranger/3/Horizon Tripper with 32 Point Buy:
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Wis: 10
Int: 10
Cha: 6

Wolf Totem Barbarian and Whirling Frenzy variant gives you another attack when Frenzied and gives you Improved trip at level 2 for free. Human will also work. The main reason I like to be a Dwarf Horizon Tripper is that you get Stability, so you have bonuses to resist being Tripped if you flub the Trip roll. Carrying an extra Spiked Chain and just dropping your primary chain if you are Tripped is also a viable tactic.

The Psychic Warrior is probably better and can more or less do all the same tricks the Horizon Tripper can. The difference is that the PW is more MAD, has a lower BAB, and has a very finite amount of Power Points. Psychic Warriors and Horizon Trippers still probably won't compare to a Psion. Hell, a Psion can give their Crystal Polymorph and still outshine either class.

Best of luck.
-Eddie

[Maho-Tsukai]

I thank you for the help but I think your missing the point, Astralfire. I am not looking for something to be used exclusively by my playgroup. We are trying to make something for OTHERS to use, not just us. Thus, we need to have a way to make it, more or less, widely available and thus we can't use ToB. However, if those things you mentioned are sites which we can make this widely available that's a different story. I have yet to click the links.

Of course I could just downgrade casters even more by giving them some kind of major penalties. Perhaps make them have two casting stats as the Favored Soul or maybe even make them damage themselves/give themselves some negative effect for casting. I would have used warlock/dragonfire adapt type stuff instead of psions, but again, not SRD.

[AstralFire]

Those are things freely available.

Though, not to be a downer or anything, but I suspect more groups will use ToB than your homebrew.

[TroubleBrewing]

Here:http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Races..._Sourcebook%29

It fixes melee. 'Nuff said.

[mootoall]

I second d20r. Also, you could just give fighters actual class features. Even an aura type system might make them more worthwhile, and give them a tactical/leadership type feel.

[TroubleBrewing]

Thats exactly what the link I provided does.

[Galdor]

Generic classes from Unearthed Arcana might be a good place to start. Three classes, each has a selection of "bonus feats" that are really just class abilities that the player can mix and match.

[Susano-wo]

If you want SRd...well, I agree that you aren't going to get balance, so you need to go for the homebrew.
But really, you are going to have to limit how much mages can do to make melee on par without magical/pseudomagical abilities.

To do this Magic users need to be limited in A: power wielded, and B: breadth of power. Either an fatigue system of some sort, or by making a lot of the more useful spells, like teleport, polymorph, etc have ritual-like casting times 10 minutes, an hour, things like that (of course you have to limit usefulness/up duration on polymorph...but still). Finally, I think there needs to be danger involved in more complex (IE not in combat) casting. It makes it much less worrysome that the wizard can do X Y or Z if he might lose stats, die, or even lose his soul to a demon.

Actually, now that I am thinking about it more, the best system would be a lot of at will abilities, that represent the 'lower power' spells that you are capable of casting [IE most of the combat castable ones], coupled with powerful ritual magic that requirted a lot of exotic ingredients, time spent, and/or somer danger to the caster/participants

This seems to give the best of both worlds

[turkishproverb]

Look replacement/updated classes on here. You might find something useful.

[Greenish]

Actually, now that I am thinking about it more, the best system would be a lot of at will abilities, that represent the 'lower power' spells that you are capable of casting [IE most of the combat castable ones], coupled with powerful ritual magic that requirted a lot of exotic ingredients, time spent, and/or somer danger to the caster/participants

Warlock/DFA/Binder/Totemist/Incarnate/Swordsage and Invocations?

[Susano-wo]

wow, how hjave I never noticed this before...is this in UA?I'm guessing it is, since the SRD is basically PHB/DMG/MM/XHB/UA, and the first 4 don't seem like they'd contain that.
Its sad that I don't rmemebr seeing this, and I own UA >.>

[Zeofar]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means..."

That said, why not just homebrew it? What exactly is it that you're looking for? All official OGL material is pretty clear and obviously available, and isn't considered "good" in terms of how it handles melee. Other than that, 3rd party isn't any more reliable than homebrew in many cases and isn't necessarily OGL (if I understand how it works). If you're looking for a homebrew fix, I doubt the person that made it will be happy if you just take it, and I doubt you'd be doing much good anyhow since it already existed. What is this meant to be exactly? A compilation, a new system, or what? I don't see the sense in making up your own magic fix but not doing the same for melee.

[Psyren]

wow, how hjave I never noticed this before...is this in UA?I'm guessing it is, since the SRD is basically PHB/DMG/MM/XHB/UA, and the first 4 don't seem like they'd contain that.
Its sad that I don't rmemebr seeing this, and I own UA >.>

Yes, Incantations are from UA (pg. 174).