Bladesinger PrC build.

[Master Thrower]

I really like the flavor of the blade singer. But I have no idea how I would make one. I was thinking using half elf paragon in some way as it ups (very little) casting and gets me a bonus feat.
Useable books- UA (only racial paragons) PH, PLH,DMG,DrC,LB, CA,CD,CadV,CW

[CapnVan]

Bladesinger is considered a poor PrC. You're losing out on arcane spell advancement, and getting a poor replacement list without any high level spells.

Basically, you're a gish, but you really don't get many of the benefits.

I like the flavor as well, in many ways, but it's probably self-defeating to go with the actual PrC. You'd probably be better served with a different build and your own fluff.

[true_shinken]

I have a Bladesinger build in my guide to defensive fighting and I homebrewed a Bladesinger sub level for Duskblade, if you want to check it out.
CW's Bladesinger really really sucks. Races of Faerun's Bladesinger is a lot better.

[Boci]

Are you against playing a regular gish (say wizard 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 10), being an elf and just saying your a bladesinger?

[Warlawk]

Duskblade could be a good option as well.

[lightningcat]

There is nothing wrong with the Bladesinger PrC, except that it should only be a 5 level class.

[Psyren]

Its class features should use Cha, not Int. Why did they feel the need to hose bards out of the class?

[true_shinken]

Its class features should use Cha, not Int. Why did they feel the need to hose bards out of the class?

Because it's based on an AD&D Wizards kit. It's not meant for Bards.
Though that's also because elves couldn't be bards in AD&D.

[Psyren]

Because it's based on an AD&D Wizards kit. It's not meant for Bards.

I know that. It's stupid.

Perform (sing) and Perform (dance) are cross-class for both Fighters and Wizards. The PrC should have been overhauled.

[true_shinken]

I know that. It's stupid.

I disagree. Legacy decisions are what kept 3rd edition from becoming 4th edition, after all.

Perform (sing) and Perform (dance) are cross-class for both Fighters and Wizards. The PrC should have been overhauled.

And that's why it only requires a few ranks. What's the problem if a few cross-class skills? Dancing/singing is only fluff for the Bladesinger any way - their gist is attacking with one hand and casting with the other.
The problem with Bladesinger is the execution. 3.0 Bladesinger was fine, Races of Faerun Bladesinger was fine (though the requirements were a bit steep) but CW Bladesinger sucks with that half casting.
The class I find most fitting for the concept is, of course, the Duskblade. That's why I wrote a Bladesinger sub level for it.

[Master Thrower]

I disagree. Legacy decisions are what kept 3rd edition from becoming 4th edition, after all.


And that's why it only requires a few ranks. What's the problem if a few cross-class skills? Dancing/singing is only fluff for the Bladesinger any way - their gist is attacking with one hand and casting with the other.
The problem with Bladesinger is the execution. 3.0 Bladesinger was fine, Races of Faerun Bladesinger was fine (though the requirements were a bit steep) but CW Bladesinger sucks with that half casting.
The class I find most fitting for the concept is, of course, the Duskblade. That's why I wrote a Bladesinger sub level for it.

what does the races of faerun bladesinger get?

[true_shinken]

what does the races of faerun bladesinger get?

Their own casting, from their own list, in a Wizards pace. I think their abilities worked a bit differently as well. Requirements were steeper (I can't remember exactly how, sorry). It's a class with full BAB that gets 4th level spells. What's not to like?

[Psyren]

I disagree. Legacy decisions are what kept 3rd edition from becoming 4th edition, after all.

It's possible to make a PrC not suck, and still avoid making it "4th edition."

What does Int-based casting add to this thing that Cha-based casting takes away?

Dancing/singing is only fluff for the Bladesinger any way - their gist is attacking with one hand and casting with the other.

How odd of me to think singing would come into it at some point

[Boci]

How odd of me to think singing would come into it at some point

No one's stoping you from singing the verbal components of the spell, and a bard has its own PrC for becoming more melee focused.

[Draz74]

If you can use Homebrew, I recommend Shinken's Duskblade Substitute levels. They look really fun to play.

If you want to stay away from Homebrew, and don't mind being evil, there's one classic Bladesinger build that's pretty decent:

Rogue 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Assassin 5 / Bladesinger 10

Obviously you'd want to be a Grey Elf, since this build has Intelligence synergy oozing out of every orifice. It gets full Assassin casting.

[Coidzor]

The only level worth taking of the best of the Bladesingers is the first level due to it being full BAB and an additional level of spellcasting, much like the first level of Spellsword. Other than that though (and maybe the 2nd level class feature), Eldritch Knight is better for gishing. Even going through the 4 mostly dead levels to become a Fochulcan Lyrist (3 dead levels with PrC Bard).

The 2nd best is on the same level as Knight of the Weave, Suel Arcanamach, Assassin, and such classes. As I haven't really examined that sort of class in depth, I don't know how good it is, but it's probably better than just continuing on as a mundane melee class. Should be judged based upon a comparison of one's other casting progression granting PrC options.

The worst one is just not to be taken at all, though I mostly didn't pay attention to it at the time to remember why it was so bad.

[Andry]

Here is some options courtesy of Tom Costos and Erik Scott De Bie



BLADESONG DUSKBLADEPH2 Substitution Levels
Elves take to the duskblade class like a hawk to the sky. The class seamlessly combines their inclination for swordplay with
magic—much like Corellon Larethian himself. In ages past, many elves took up the heavy armor and often more brutal style of
the Nael’kerymCCh. More, however, pursued the duskblade class to master the elven martial art of the bladesong.
The bladesong emphasizes beauty and economy of movement over destruction and sheer power. (Most bladesong
duskblades take the Combat Expertise feat early in their careers.) The movement of these elves makes them appear as if they are
dancing when the fight. Nevertheless, the elven bladesong is deceptively dangerous, for all its apparent grace. The bladesong is
so named for the whistling of the blade as it slices through the air and the haunting, wordless tune many of its practitioners
appear to sing as they fight (when in truth, they are reciting the arcane syllables of the magic they so seamlessly weave into their
swordplay). The most elite duskblades, those who have made their study of the bladesong their life’s focus, are often known as
bladesingers. While they often work alone discovering new forms within the bladesong, they will sometimes take another under
their wing to train for a time. The concept of anything as formalized as a bladesinger school is an absurd notion to these masters
of the bladesong. Nevertheless, many bladesingers do belong to loosely-organized fraternal societies known as guilds.
(Note: This represents an alternate path to the role of “bladesinger.” It is perfectly acceptable for elves to come from many
different class backgrounds, whether as single-classed duskblades or multi-classed adherents of the bladesinger prestige class presented in Complete Warrior.)

Hit Die: d8
Requirements
To take a bladesong duskblade substitution level, a character must be an elf about to take his 1st, 4th, or 7th level of duskblade.
Class Skills
Bladesong duskblades are often capable of working their way through the battlefield with ease, but spend less time in study than
their fellow duskblades.
Bladesong duskblade substitution levels have the class skills of the standard duskblade class, minus Craft, Decipher Script,
and all Knowledge skills except Knowledge (arcana), plus Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Perform (dance) (Cha), Perform (sing)
(Cha), and Tumble (Dex). Once an elf takes a bladesong duskblade substitution level, these changes apply to each subsequent
duskblade level.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier (or four times this number as a 1st-level character).
Class Features
All the following are class features of the bladesong duskblade racial substitution levels.
Bladesinger Spells: A bladesong duskblade adds the following spells to his duskblade spell list (see page 24 of Player’s
Handbook II): 0—electric joltSC, resistance; 1st—mage armor, shield; 2nd—bladesongSp:B (see below), blur, burning swordSC, heroism, mirror
image, protection from arrows, swift hasteSC; 3rd—blink, displacement, greater mage armorSC; 4th—haste, improved invisibility, stoneskin; 5th—
greater blinkSC.
A bladesong duskblades removes all necromancy and fear spells from his duskblades spell list, including: 0—disrupt undead,
touch of fatigue; 1st—blade of blood, cause fear, chill touch, ray of enfeeblement; 2—ghoul touch; 3—doom scarabs, ray of exhaustion, vampiric
touch; 4—enervation, phantasmal killer; 5—waves of fatigue.
Bladesong Style (Ex): When wielding a longsword, rapier, elven lightbladeRW, or elven thinbladeRW in one hand (and
nothing in the other), a bladesong duskblade gains a dodge bonus to Armor class equal to his class level, up to a maximum of
his Intelligence bonus. If the elf wears medium or heavy armor, he loses all benefits of the bladesong style.
This substitution feature replaces the standard duskblade’s proficiency with medium armor, heavy armor, and shields (as
well as armored mage benefits with light shields).
Reflexive Grace (Ex): A bladesong duskblade uses the good base save bonus progression for Reflex save and poor base
save bonus progression for Fortitude save. This change applies to every duskblade level the elf takes thereafter. (In effect,
switch the Fortitude Save and Reflex Save bonuses listed at any and all duskblade levels the character takes.)
Improved Bladesong Style (Ex): When wielding a longsword, rapier, elven lightbladeRW, or elven thinbladeRW in one hand
(and nothing in the other), a bladesong duskblade can take 10 when making a Concentration check to cast defensively.
This substitution feature replaces the standard duskblade’s armored mage (medium) class feature.
Bladesong Flurry (Ex): When a bladesong duskblade makes a full attack with a longsword, rapier, elven lightbladeRW, or
elven thinbladeRW in one hand (and nothing in the other), he can make one extra attack a round at his highest base attack bonus,
but this attack and each other attack made that round take a -2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks
of opportunity the duskblade might make before his next action.
This substitution feature replaces the standard swashbuckler’s armored mage (heavy shield) class feature.
Level Fort Ref Special
1 +0 +2 Armored attunement, bladesinger spells, bladesong style, armored mage (light), reflexive grace
4 +1 +4 Improved bladesong style
7 +2 +5 Bladesong flurry
New Spell
BladesongSp:B
Transmutation
Level: Bard 2, bladesong duskblade 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: Weapon touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)
11
As you intone the final words of the spell, your blade begins to hum—the music quickly builds to a hymn of sharp, deadly beauty.
Bladesong makes a bladed weapon emit magical music in combat. Any round that the weapon is used in melee combat, this
spell allows the wielder to make a single, additional touch attack with the sword as a free action. The attack uses the wielder’s
normal attack bonus with that weapon but inflicts no damage. Instead, anyone successfully touched by the weapon in this way is
dazed for one round. Dazed characters cannot take actions but can defend themselves normally.
Focus: The weapon.
Credit: Bladesong was written by Monte Cook and first appeared on the Wizards of the Coast website
(http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.a...sb/sb20010126a). The description has been added.

[CapnVan]

It's a class with full BAB that gets 4th level spells. What's not to like?

It doesn't advance your wizard (or, for that matter, any other) spell levels at all. That's a problem that at least EK doesn't have. A relatively high level gish with only 4th level spells (from a limited selection) isn't going to be nearly as effective as almost any other build.

It also clashes with established lore. Josidiah Starym, probably the most famous bladesinger from the Realms, became Spell-Major of Myth Drannor — essentially the most powerful martial magic-user in a really heavy magic area. He didn't do it with 4th level spells.

[ithildur]

Start with ROF version, get rid of (never used) Still Spell as a requirement, replace the separate spellbook with a 7/10 or 8/10 standard caster progression, and you have a very good prc that fits the 'elite of the elite' fluff and tough prereqs of the bladesinger. Eventually, at epic lvls he'll be able to be a lvl 15 caster, like Josidiah Starym.

Ftr4/wiz2/bladesinger10/abj champion4 will get you BAB +19 and caster lvl 13 or 14. Or back to wizard instead of abj champion if you consider abj champion overpowered (as if wizard isn't!), BAB +17 and caster lvl 13/14 (plus Wizard5 bonus feat/acf, etc), pretty close to what Josidiah could do.

Honestly, none of the class abilities are really earthshaking except Song of Celerity, which is very powerful though limited by ROF's requirement that you have to make a full attack in the round you quicken a spell, thus ruling out quickened spell/non quickened spell in a round tactics impossible. Three bonus feats from a small list are nice. Bladesong grants dodge bonus to ac, which is definitely a plus for a light armored melee, Lessor Spellsong is nice but not needed at high lvls where defensive casting is automatic, Greater Spellsong is something that a Spellsword gets what, 6 levels earlier? And song of Fury as the capstone ability - it's something a monk gets at lvl 1 and archers get with Rapid Shot at low lvls; nice but nothing astonishing at lvl 16+.

Song of celerity is THE standout ability, and fits the seemless blending of an elite melee caster perfectly, and makes up for being behind 7 to 9 caster lvls from pure caster, 5 to 7 lvls behind the much easier to qualify for EK. RP restrictions and choices aside, it also has the huge mechanical restrictions of weapon choice and style (the ONLY true gish that has such severe restrictions iirc; you can forget about Enlarge Person reach weapon/spiked chain two handed power attack Wraithstrike attacks and such) which limits a lot of favorite melee options, but it's still a very good package with great flavor and mechanically viable. Much better than current view by many of the PRC as something to avoid or to maybe consider for a one lvl dip (ugh...)