Using 3.5 to make 4th edition style characters.

[Chambers]

Since I've started playing 4th edition (little over a month now) I've really come to enjoy it. Players can still choose cool things for their characters to do and on the whole it seems more balanced than 3.5, which is a great thing.

Either as a thought exercise or for an actual game, has anyone tried to make a 3.5 character that mimics that abiliites of a 4th edition character? I don't have any specific 4e class in mind, but assume you'd have 30 levels to work with and it's Gestalt. How'd you make a 4e class using 3.5?

[cupkeyk]

Gestalt the non spellcaster classes with the ones in Boof of Nine swords?

[Welknair]

Gestalt the non spellcaster classes with the ones in Boof of Nine swords?

Beat me to it.

The entirety of 4e is just based off of ToB.

-Almost started arguing editions there. Sorry 'bout that.-

[cupkeyk]

I don't think the fact that TOB BoNS was in fact the archetype 4e was based from would have started an edition war because its true.

[Mando Knight]

I don't think the fact that TOB BoNS was in fact the archetype 4e was based from would have started an edition war because its true.

Yeah, pretty much. Maybe with a bit of 3.5 Warlock stuck in there. (Especially the all-day-magic-blasty bit)

[MrSinister]

I recently started playing in a 3.5 game after DMing 4th edition since it came out. I am playing a Beguiler and although I had a lot of options, even at level 2, I still FELT like a 4th ed character, spamming color spray at anything that moved. So many spells per day with such a short list, it was almost like an at-will.

[Kurald Galain]

Restrict the Power Attack feat from working only once per five minutes?

[WitchSlayer]

Restrict the Power Attack feat from working only once per five minutes?

Except power attack exists in 4e.

[MeeposFire]

Except power attack exists in 4e.

And it can be used at will.

I think it was just made in jest as a play on the typical bashing arguments made about 4e.

Just my guess though.

[WinWin]

Some classes do not translate well. Particularly spellcasters.

A level 30 3.5 wizard, druid or cleric can cast or create spells far beyond the scope of anything available to a similar 4e character. Conversely a level 1 4e wizard does not need to worry about rampaging houscats or have to rest after casting 3 or 4 spells.

ToB characters have already been mentioned as an example of using mechanics similar to 4e.

Binders clearly inspired the Vestige pact warlock, a Gestalt Binder|Warlock would be a fair approximation of the 4e vestige pact warlock.

Shadowcaster|Rogues might be able to do 4e assassin.

Healer|Cleric with exalted feats could reproduce a Shielding cleric with the Pacifist healer feat.

[Fishy]

The traditional answer is to pair Warblade, Swordsage and Crusader with Warmage, Beguiler and Dread Necromancer.

If you're feeling very brave, and don't mind breaking your back with homebrew, the Arcane Swordsage variant might be worth looking at. The variant in ToB is more of a suggestion than an actual class- It's generally regarded as Tier 0 broken as written- but if you restricted it to spells that felt like 4e, it would... feel like 4e. I guess that's not helpful.

[Eldan]

Well, you could probably start with something like the Duskblade list and make it a blasty class. That shouldn't make it reasonably balanced.

[FelixG]

A level 30 3.5 wizard, druid or cleric can cast or create spells far beyond the scope of anything available to a similar 4e character. Conversely a level 1 4e wizard does not need to worry about rampaging houscats or have to rest after casting 3 or 4 spells.

A level 30 caster in 4e is about equivalent to a level 15 caster in 3.5

[Tyndmyr]

Since I've started playing 4th edition (little over a month now) I've really come to enjoy it. Players can still choose cool things for their characters to do and on the whole it seems more balanced than 3.5, which is a great thing.

Either as a thought exercise or for an actual game, has anyone tried to make a 3.5 character that mimics that abiliites of a 4th edition character? I don't have any specific 4e class in mind, but assume you'd have 30 levels to work with and it's Gestalt. How'd you make a 4e class using 3.5?

I'd tell the players to use ToB and the casting classes with endurance, such as warlock.

Healing belts = healing surges.

Actually the problem isn't really mimicing 4e...it's making sure they dont pick from the vast quantity of stuff that doesn't mimic 4e. Pretty much anyone can make a character in 3.5 that works very similarly to 4e chars.

[Mando Knight]

A level 30 caster in 4e is about equivalent to a level 15 caster in 3.5

Well, yes and no. A level 15 caster in 3.5 can cast his world-altering spells more quickly (unless playing a game where everyone needs to use Incantations for certain spells, which are basically the predecessor to 4e's rituals), but they still can't defeat gods or the most ancient dragons without tricks. The power curve (both absolute and relative) is altered more than it is simply dropped for full-casters.

[Thurbane]

So what characters in 3.5 have "per encounter" based abilities? Factotum, Hellreaver....I'm sure there must be more, but I can't bring any to mind.

[Runestar]

Wizards with reserve feats.

[Psyren]

So what characters in 3.5 have "per encounter" based abilities? Factotum, Hellreaver....I'm sure there must be more, but I can't bring any to mind.

The poster child for "encounter powers" is the Binder, because few encounters last more than 5 rounds.

Skill Tricks are a more explicit form of encounter power.

[Danin]

I made a fairly solid recreation of a 4e wizard using lots of battlefield sculpting spells and reserve feats to represent at wills. Mostly used walls and clouds, with the occasional evocation. I think a big problem that many people have is that they forget you don't have to pick the world shatteringly awesome spells.

[Draz74]

So what characters in 3.5 have "per encounter" based abilities? Factotum, Hellreaver....I'm sure there must be more, but I can't bring any to mind.

Tome of Battle maneuvers and anything involving a Psionic Focus are sort of per-encounter, because recharging them mid-encounter sucks. (Well, for Swordsages, at least. Warblades and Crusaders are relatively good at mid-encounter recharges. And Psionic Focus can be recharged efficiently too, if you invest a feat and some action-economy-bending powers.)

Tome of Battle maneuvers that are gained solely through feats or items are explicitly per-encounter, no recharge.

[MeeposFire]

I made a fairly solid recreation of a 4e wizard using lots of battlefield sculpting spells and reserve feats to represent at wills. Mostly used walls and clouds, with the occasional evocation. I think a big problem that many people have is that they forget you don't have to pick the world shatteringly awesome spells.

Avoiding earth shattering spells in general would be required to be able to make a 4e character.

[Kurald Galain]

So what characters in 3.5 have "per encounter" based abilities? Factotum, Hellreaver....I'm sure there must be more, but I can't bring any to mind.

Considering you're supposed to get three or four combat encounters per day - any ability that can be used at least four times per day (e.g. any memorized spell) can be used to mimic a per-encounter ability.

A level 30 caster in 4e is about equivalent to a level 15 caster in 3.5

I think a more accurate figure would be an 8th-level caster. There are quite a number of 5th-level or higher spells that simply have no equivalent in 4E (it doesn't count if there's a power with the same name that does something else).

[Prime32]

I think a more accurate figure would be an 8th-level caster. There are quite a number of 5th-level or higher spells that simply have no equivalent in 4E (it doesn't count if there's a power with the same name that does something else).

By comparison, a 30th-level 3.5e wizard can extinguish the sun with a gesture. Because the epic spell rules are just that ridiculous.

[Jack_Simth]

By comparison, a 30th-level 3.5e wizard can extinguish the sun with a gesture. Because the epic spell rules are just that ridiculous.

Hey now! That takes a hefty amount of setup to pull off.

You know, a few months Permanently Summoning ritual spellcasters. But after that... yeah.

[Project_Mayhem]

Pfff. A mid level Warblade can do that

[Kurald Galain]

Pfff. A mid level Warblade can do that

You mean, by declaring the sun an "effect" and using Iron Heart Surge?

[Project_Mayhem]

It was a joke, but yes