When the DM asks, "Are you sure?"

[Vknight]

So the MitD is a gazebo? It all makes sense now!

That makes perfect sense in all and every way

[tommhans]

that gazebo story was awesome,atleast when i finally understood what a gazebo what hehe ^^

I wouldve attacked it aswell :D

[hewhosaysfish]

The gate to the graveyard was only partway open (which, to me, would give the impression that something wasn't right in the enclosure).

But my front gate is standing half-open, that doesn't mean that....

OH GOD THERE ARE WOLVES IN MY FLAT!

SEND HELP!!!!

[Friv]

I described to him the scene - boxes of obvious guns, ammunition, explosives, grenades, etc - being unloaded by a half dozen normal-looking men. I told the player she had managed full surprise and could act first.

She told me that she would use her area-effect electrical blast on the room, to stun all the men without killing them. I asked her if she was sure. She was.

The resulting chain-reaction of explosions amazingly didn't kill any of the PCs, but they didn't end up with any prisoners to interrogate. And the local authorities were not pleased with the resulting body count.

In her defense, I as a player would never have assumed that electricity not strong enough to kill people would be capable of setting off stable explosives. I don't think you can set off grenades with a taser.

[Lorsa]

In her defense, I as a player would never have assumed that electricity not strong enough to kill people would be capable of setting off stable explosives. I don't think you can set off grenades with a taser.

It is quite common that players and GMs have different ideas of the outcome of actions, how physics work etc. A good GM should have a good idea of how the world works and be consistent in implementing cause-and-effect. Sometimes you may need to communicate to players in advance exactly what would come out of an action if they seem to be unsure. The same goes for social situations. Some GMs have a very weird idea of how people / things react and it's a common breaking point for groups.

[Wookieetank]

But my front gate is standing half-open, that doesn't mean that....

OH GOD THERE ARE WOLVES IN MY FLAT!

SEND HELP!!!!

This made me chuckle, thank you for that kind gentle being.

[ellindsey]

In her defense, I as a player would never have assumed that electricity not strong enough to kill people would be capable of setting off stable explosives. I don't think you can set off grenades with a taser.

True, but there were explosives and detonators in the warehouse too. I figured the weapon would set those off, especially as it was bought as an attack capable of causing actual physical damage. It wasn't so much a taser as a directed lightning bolt.

[Amnestic]

In her defense, I as a player would never have assumed that electricity not strong enough to kill people would be capable of setting off stable explosives. I don't think you can set off grenades with a taser.

It depends - were any of the explosives in clearly marked red barrels? 'cos you can throw a feather at a red barrel and it'll go up in flames.

[Vknight]

It depends - were any of the explosives in clearly marked red barrels? 'cos you can throw a feather at a red barrel and it'll go up in flames.

You can hit a red barrel with a crowbar and it will go up.
I would be terrified to be in that building

[Sith_Happens]

In her defense, I as a player would never have assumed that electricity not strong enough to kill people would be capable of setting off stable explosives. I don't think you can set off grenades with a taser.

That's what the blasting caps are for (though why they were keeping the caps attached to the payloads in storage is beyond me).

[Vknight]

That's what the blasting caps are for (though why they were keeping the caps attached to the payloads in storage is beyond me).

Simple makes shipping faster!
These are super hero villains without a smart boss

[turbo164]

Under the law of conservation of detail, yes, perhaps. It might also mean someone was just in there a little while ago, or that the caretaker doesn't do his job very well.

Without metagaming in that way it means nothing at all; there are a hundred reasons a gate might be partly open, and second-to-last on the list is "there are secretly wolves and wargs inside! roll initiative." (Last is of course "there are secretly demons inside! roll initiative.")

If demons are last on that list, that means it's more likely to find a Half-Tarrasque Nymph there?

My last "are you sure" moment was more of a laughing "ooohookaaaay"...multiple times in a row.

Backstory: The players have previously seen evidence of a mysterious group known as the "EL" that was experimenting with extremely powerful undead. They reach a town with at least one monster in the sewers, that they later find out was secretly imported by a branch of the EL that has taken over a local "insurance" company. Their investigation leads them to encounter an employee of the pre-merge company, who tells them about the merge, the imports and exports of "growling crates", that several have gone missing, and (here's the key to my "are you sure" moment) tells them that 4 nights from now, the building will be severely undermanned, providing the best opportunity to do something (since they've already determined the City Guard is powerless, and none of the locals seem willing to risk anything either).

Well, in the meantime, the players decide to look for some more escaped animals before they start eating civilians. Kind of what I expected, the Ranger helps track down a Hydra that they kill. Now the unexpected happens.

Players: How much does this thing weigh?
Me: *glances at Monster Manual* about 4000 pounds.
Players: Hmm, my max load is X, plus Y...we could probably stuff the heads in our Bag of Holding...hey, if we were to disembowel the thing, how many pounds would that shave off?
Me: ...*thinks about cows in a slaughterhouse* *rolls some dice* about 800?
Players: Awesome! Allright, we're going to push/drag this thing to the doorstep of that company, to expose their animal trafficking to the public!
Me: "ooohookaaaay" #1.

So they haul it out of the sewers, drag it through town, leaving a trail of blood, sewage, slammed windows and curious/frightened Commoners, and plop it at the front door.

Player [slightly* crazy Cleric of Olidamara] Now I'm going to stand on it and preach, to get the public fired up!
Me: "ooohookaaaay" #2.
Every other player (including the Lawful Good ranger and 18 intel Warforged): I'll help! *Aids Another*
Me: "ooohookaaaay" #3.
So after a nice discussion with the City Guard (who begin cleaning up the street), they head back to the inn for a good night's sleep, in their INDIVIDUAL rooms, with only the Warforged standing guard in the hall.
Me: *smiling, shaking head, rolling a ton of dice to see how the heck this would affect the delivery schedule/rival factions/etc; holy crap, they got some good rolls!*

While the Dwarf had a particularly unpleasant time, what with awaking to a poisoned dagger in the chest at 3am and not waking up again until the fighting was pretty much over...everyone survived. And this Thursday they will hopefully find out the results of those rolls that made me smile, because holy crap, I did not expect them to live through that stunt. I'm happy they did because it was hilarious, but I worry about the precident it set for future lapses in logic At least they gained some good faction with Olidamara for ifwhen they need a divine intervention ^_^



*very.

[Jon_Dahl]

I'm usually absotely disgusted if the DM tries to manipulate me. However, I don't show him/her that and I keep my thoughts to myself.
I will just ask him "why?". In most cases, the DM will talk me out of it, but I won't be happy with the manipulation. In some cases I just go ahead, simply just to demonstrate that it's my character.

[Jay R]

I'm usually absotely disgusted if the DM tries to manipulate me.

Offering advice, or suggesting that you reconsider, is not manipulation.

[Roderick_BR]

In my old group, "are you sure" was more of a code for "come on, I dare you get out of the mess you are about to get yourself into".
Shuffling papers and getting dices ready to roll are goot to increase the tension and make the players pay attention. They almost never backed away.

[magwaaf]

That probably warranted the PC getting stopped by a random NPC, warning him about the completely unintuitive worg infestation that's been vexing the townfolk by the graveyard, preventing them from paying their respects, rather than an "Are you sure?" Otherwise, it reads like:

Player: I eat breakfast.
DM: Are you sure?
Player: Yes.
DM: Roll initiative as a horde of goblins emerges from your bowl of fruit loops.

i think this guyneeds to work on his dm'ing skill

[Water_Bear]

I'm usually [absolutely] disgusted if the DM tries to manipulate me. However, I don't show him/her that and I keep my thoughts to myself.
I will just ask him "why?". In most cases, the DM will talk me out of it, but I won't be happy with the manipulation. In some cases I just go ahead, simply just to demonstrate that it's my character.

Um, a little info from the other side of the screen; DM's who ask "Are you sure?" aren't trying to take away your player agency and force you along a railroad plot, they're trying to keep your character alive. "Are you sure?" is the Ctrl-Z of stupid Player decisions; I usually reserve it for situations when PCs forget where whirling blades are and stroll through or threaten heads of state while surrounded by high-level bodyguards.

Out of curiosity, how would you define manipulation? Is there a way for DMs to let Players know they're about to get their PCs killed in a non-manipulative way.

[Geordnet]

I'm usually absotely disgusted if the DM tries to manipulate me. However, I don't show him/her that and I keep my thoughts to myself.
I will just ask him "why?". In most cases, the DM will talk me out of it, but I won't be happy with the manipulation. In some cases I just go ahead, simply just to demonstrate that it's my character.

You'd rather die over some detail you didn't know or had forgotten? Are you sure?

Seriously though, unless you've got a very bad GM, asking for confirmation is just a safety precaution. It's there to remind you to double-check your logic before doing something irrevocable. Sometimes you will want to take that desperate, long-shot gamble; but usually the risk is much greater than the reward, and you wouldn't have said "full speed ahead" if you hadn't forgotten about the torpedoes.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm usually absotely disgusted if the DM tries to manipulate me. However, I don't show him/her that and I keep my thoughts to myself.
I will just ask him "why?". In most cases, the DM will talk me out of it, but I won't be happy with the manipulation. In some cases I just go ahead, simply just to demonstrate that it's my character.

Do you mean when the DM only asks "are you sure?" when he sincerely thinks the action is unwise, or when he does it to psych you out/throw you off-guard?

In my personal experience, the DM usually accompanies the "are you sure?" with a bit of crucial info that I could have easily missed or forgotten (things like "he's holding a hostage", or "his bodyguards are all around"), so I consider it helpful.

[Zeful]

I'm usually absotely disgusted if the DM tries to manipulate me. However, I don't show him/her that and I keep my thoughts to myself.
I will just ask him "why?". In most cases, the DM will talk me out of it, but I won't be happy with the manipulation. In some cases I just go ahead, simply just to demonstrate that it's my character.

When I DMd, if I asked you "are you sure?" it was generally the end of a sentence explaining an element of the world I hadn't managed to set up that your character has every reason to know about, or something that had previously occurred to provide context. This is not manipulation, this is not removing your player agency, this is not undermining your character. This is making sure you have all the information before making a critical choice.

[Threadnaught]

Me: Are you sure you want to take this course of action? There are several other things you could try.
Player: Umm... We'll think about trying something else.
Me: Okay, so final decision, please?
Player: My Wizard hits the demon with a stick.
Me:
Player: It's a really big stick.
Me: Roll d20.
Player: It's a 1, this game sucks and you're a horrible DM.
Me:

Spoiler

Show

I allowed them, entirely through their choice to go after a Demilich before level 10, with Tier 3-4 characters. The amount of times I asked them if they were absolutely sure about it, both in that session before and during the session itself, oh boy. To make it more obvious, I'd have to have outright declared it as a no win situation, I thought the constant hinting was enough.
As soon as it hit the fan, and oh boy what a massive fan it was. I was cackling the whole time struggling to describe how they had angered a god who had sent as much of his army after them as possible. Before taking matters into his own hands and instakilling them. Their fault really, they could have tried developing the plot, but no they wanted to commit suicide. And then the world ended.

Moral of the story, if your DM asks you if you're sure, they're giving you other options that you should at least consider. If your DM constantly asks you if your sure, multiple times about the same action, you should do something else entirely.

[Jay R]

Moral of the story, if your DM asks you if you're sure, they're giving you other options that you should at least consider. If your DM constantly asks you if your sure, multiple times about the same action, you should do something else entirely.

The DM can help the players past many difficulties. Rampant stupidity is not, alas, on the list.

[Slipperychicken]

I thought the constant hinting was enough.

It's advice typically reserved for romantic relationships, but is applicable to most human interactions: Hints don't work.

If you want someone to know something, tell him explicitly and in clear terms. Anything else increases the chance for misinterpretation or miscommunication.

[Vertharrad]

If demons are last on that list, that means it's more likely to find a Half-Tarrasque Nymph there?

My last "are you sure" moment was more of a laughing "ooohookaaaay"...multiple times in a row.

Backstory: The players have previously seen evidence of a mysterious group known as the "EL" that was experimenting with extremely powerful undead. They reach a town with at least one monster in the sewers, that they later find out was secretly imported by a branch of the EL that has taken over a local "insurance" company. Their investigation leads them to encounter an employee of the pre-merge company, who tells them about the merge, the imports and exports of "growling crates", that several have gone missing, and (here's the key to my "are you sure" moment) tells them that 4 nights from now, the building will be severely undermanned, providing the best opportunity to do something (since they've already determined the City Guard is powerless, and none of the locals seem willing to risk anything either).

Well, in the meantime, the players decide to look for some more escaped animals before they start eating civilians. Kind of what I expected, the Ranger helps track down a Hydra that they kill. Now the unexpected happens.

Players: How much does this thing weigh?
Me: *glances at Monster Manual* about 4000 pounds.
Players: Hmm, my max load is X, plus Y...we could probably stuff the heads in our Bag of Holding...hey, if we were to disembowel the thing, how many pounds would that shave off?
Me: ...*thinks about cows in a slaughterhouse* *rolls some dice* about 800?
Players: Awesome! Allright, we're going to push/drag this thing to the doorstep of that company, to expose their animal trafficking to the public!
Me: "ooohookaaaay" #1.

So they haul it out of the sewers, drag it through town, leaving a trail of blood, sewage, slammed windows and curious/frightened Commoners, and plop it at the front door.

Player [slightly* crazy Cleric of Olidamara] Now I'm going to stand on it and preach, to get the public fired up!
Me: "ooohookaaaay" #2.
Every other player (including the Lawful Good ranger and 18 intel Warforged): I'll help! *Aids Another*
Me: "ooohookaaaay" #3.
So after a nice discussion with the City Guard (who begin cleaning up the street), they head back to the inn for a good night's sleep, in their INDIVIDUAL rooms, with only the Warforged standing guard in the hall.
Me: *smiling, shaking head, rolling a ton of dice to see how the heck this would affect the delivery schedule/rival factions/etc; holy crap, they got some good rolls!*

While the Dwarf had a particularly unpleasant time, what with awaking to a poisoned dagger in the chest at 3am and not waking up again until the fighting was pretty much over...everyone survived. And this Thursday they will hopefully find out the results of those rolls that made me smile, because holy crap, I did not expect them to live through that stunt. I'm happy they did because it was hilarious, but I worry about the precident it set for future lapses in logic At least they gained some good faction with Olidamara for ifwhen they need a divine intervention ^_^



*very.

I didn't see Are you sure in there and ooohookaaaay can mean a few things. Don't take this as critical criticism but your Are you sure moment was pretty vague.

[Threadnaught]

It's advice typically reserved for romantic relationships, but is applicable to most human interactions: Hints don't work.

If you want someone to know something, tell him explicitly and in clear terms. Anything else increases the chance for misinterpretation or miscommunication.

Well I did ask through a few NPCs "do you seriously want to go that far into his lair? He will kill you if he finds you, and if you're going after something he's keeping sealed away, he will find you."

Also he kept a living weapon sealed away after he, the other gods and the rest of the heroes who defeated the God of Destruction, lost control of it. They all worked together to contain it and he's merely maintaining the barrier while he gathers enough dead to increase his power and influence. Something the other gods they met had explicitly told them, reason they don't do anything about him gathering an army? They explained this as well.

They were also found camping in his forest, by him and an army of minions. He made a little deal with them.
1: Kill all the other gods, and he'd make them (the players) part of his undead army as a reward and take over the world while preventing it's destruction.
2: Refuse to kill the other gods, or go to him afterward without doing so and he'd add them to his army anyway.

Well, less of a deal and more of an order/demand, gods are weird like that. I had little to no intention of having them fight it.

[Geordnet]

Well, less of a deal and more of an order/demand, gods are weird like that. I had little to no intention of having them fight it.

Oh, well there's your problem. It's a natural human tendency to fight anything presented as unavoidable. You always need to plan for the PCs taking a third option.

[Alaris]

Well, I have an "Are you sure" moment to share, from my most recent D&D session, where I DMed.

My party of 'heroes' was led to a Bandit Cave recently, after finding out that these bandits stole goods that were meant to be delivered to them. So they charge in valiantly, stumbling through some traps as well as some encounters with the local wildlife (pets to the Bandits mostly).

They get to the final room, and find that is where most of the bandits have congregated. They engage in a fight against the bandits, and the Bandit Leader drops the Party Leader in 1 round, with 2 arrows. He proves that he's pretty beefy. (Read: Higher Level).

So the rest of the party starts powering through his minions, and eventually, the local Tiefling Monk flies up to the bandit leader himself and tries (futility) to disarm him, and attack him.

The Leader decides, with his pack wiped out, the Paladin and Co. are likely going to engage, and while he can avoid the Monk's attacks pretty well, he doesn't want to deal with the Paladin, so he jumps down a escape hatch.

The party starts to recover (Paladin Heals the leader, etc), and then this happens:

TP (Tiefling Player): I fly down the hole after him!
Me: Are you sure you want to do that?
TP: Yes, definitely.
Me: Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE?
TP: Yes.
Me: Alright...

What ensued was a fairly brief side scene where the Bandit Leader made the Tiefling Monk a pin cushion for arrows. He is now dead.

I just don't get it... I pretty much emphasized through the combat that the Leader was a badass. It is unlikely that a single party member can take him on alone. And then I tried to warn the player in question that it would essentially not end well... and he ignored me.

I'm not trying to manipulate your character... I'm trying to ensure the story continues. Engaging the leader who avoided all of your attacks, and downed your party leader in 1 round, ALONE... IS. FOOLISH!

And before anyone goes on the rant of "CR DUDE" and "You stacked the encounter against them," I will stop you right there. They powered through the rest of the encounter. It was more or less set, the Bandit Leader would show he is powerful (by knocking out a PC), and then escape.

Now don't get me wrong, if he had legitimately missed the PCs, and they had gotten up to him and attacked together, they could've brought him down. I did not make the encounter impossible. I just made it difficult... you have to think. Charging after the Bandit Leader alone is not thinking, it's blindly charging.

Ugh...sorry, I just felt like ranting.

[Vknight]

Don't worry Alaris we all do at some points in our gaming career
We all do
We need a topic call ranting corner

[imaloony]

You kidding? In places where some DMs say "Are you sure?" my DM says "Roll it!"
For example:

DM: "You open the golden sarcophagus. Inside lies an ancient corpse, blackened by time."
Kender: "I PICK HIS POCKETS!"
DM: "Roll it!"
Kender: "Natural 100" (AD&D, so picking pockets is on percentile)
DM: "You're dead."
(BTW, the corpse was that of the Archduke of hell. The Kender switched souls with him.)

[Threadnaught]

Oh, well there's your problem. It's a natural human tendency to fight anything presented as unavoidable. You always need to plan for the PCs taking a third option.

There were multiple choices of where they could've gone. The choice they made, is the only choice I had planned, which I knew would kill them. Everywhere else and they'd encounter something more appropriate for their level.