Paladin without mount

[Ditto]

I'm looking for Paladin variants that substitute something for the Summon Mount ability. I've seen them before, but I can't for the life of me remember where. Does anyone know of such a thing?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Go to www.crystalkeep.com and check the base classes in the D&D section.

EDIT: This link makes it even easier- http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules...asses-Base.pdf

[Kantolin]

Also, the PHB2 has the opportunity to trade your mount for a charging smite ability.

[Ditto]

The variants seem pretty wonky... I never really liked DR material. In any event, these all replace the mount with another summoned animal, whether celestial/fiendish/elemental/unicorn(?), which is essentially the same thing - as far as the flavor I'm trying to dodge is concerned. That, or Leadership at lvl5, which is sort of iffy. I'm not looking for a cohort, either.

Whatever I'm thinking of, it wasn't an animal replacement...

[Bears With Lasers]

Charging Smite, from the PHB II, replaces your mount with an ability to do, well, smite while charging for extra damage.

[Thomas]

Charging smite is much better than a mount, mostly. The extra damage is level x 2, which almost makes paladin levels beyond 4th worth it.

Almost.

[Ramza00]

There is a subsitution option in Dungeonscape. Avaliable free as an excerpt here.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a

[Bears With Lasers]

Oh, yeah. The one Ramza linked to is brilliant.

[Ditto]

Bump. Any other ideas?

[Bears With Lasers]

That's all that's out there. One of those variants is great, and the other is absolutely excellent; what more do you want?

[Aximili]

Go with the thing from dungeonscape. Reviving one ally/round is simply much more than any 20th level paladin has ever been able to do.

[Varen_Tai]

Actually, one of the paladin splatbooks had a neat idea that I've implemented - instead of having a mount, the paladin receives a weapon that functions much the same. It has a limited int and wis and cha score, only communicates with the paladin, can hold spells and grant extra feats. I forget the exact name of the book, but maybe someone else can remember it and point you in the right direction.

If I recall correctly, it gained up to a +3 or +4 naturally as the paladin gained levels.

[Ditto]

Ah, VT, of course I should have come to you. That's certainly a thought. The spirit might work, elsewise, but 20th is a long way off. I'm playing a cleric, anyway, going prestige paladin (from UA), so resurrection isn't beyond my scope. As a cleric-y flavored sort of paladin, I'm not necessarily going be the huge charging-into-battle type, which is why I'm poking around for less martial alternatives.

[Varen_Tai]

Seriously, man. I'm hurt you didn't come to me. You know better. ;)

I'll see about digging up the crunchy for you. It's a very cool alternative.

[Aximili]

Ah, VT, of course I should have come to you. That's certainly a thought. The spirit might work, elsewise, but 20th is a long way off. I'm playing a cleric, anyway, going prestige paladin (from UA), so resurrection isn't beyond my scope. As a cleric-y flavored sort of paladin, I'm not necessarily going be the huge charging-into-battle type, which is why I'm poking around for less martial alternatives.

Well, the dungeonscape variant is good for many other reasons. Even if only for the first spirit (healing up to double your lay on hands without having to spend an action unless it's for yourself, and without having to move towards the injured), it's already better than the mount.

[Quietus]

That dungeonscape one is pure, pure cheese. Holy crap. Superpowered paladin much? Yeah, I'd like to be able to heal massive amounts, revive my friends, do super damage, have damage reduction, etc, etc, etc, while STILL retaining my awesome combat abilities, please?

[Ramza00]

That dungeonscape one is pure, pure cheese. Holy crap. Superpowered paladin much? Yeah, I'd like to be able to heal massive amounts, revive my friends, do super damage, have damage reduction, etc, etc, etc, while STILL retaining my awesome combat abilities, please?

You can only have 1 spirit up at a time, and you can only use each spirit once a day. You can't multiclass out of paladin without not progressing the spirit.

[Aximili]

That dungeonscape one is pure, pure cheese. Holy crap. Superpowered paladin much? Yeah, I'd like to be able to heal massive amounts, revive my friends, do super damage, have damage reduction, etc, etc, etc, while STILL retaining my awesome combat abilities, please?

I agree with everything you just wrote, except for one: awesome combat abilities?

[Quietus]

Smite Evil is pretty great if you know how to use it. Lay on Hands is an excellent combat-medic ability. And while it's limited by week, Remove Disease is nice to have.

And as for keeping only one spirit going at a time... so? Even at only once per day, and one at a time, you're still going to have some serious balance issues when you can drop a spirit and instantly raise one ally per turn. Not even Clerics, the designated healers, can do that. And THEY have to pay to do it!

DR 10/-- is pretty hardcore awesome, and when you toss fast healing ten on top of that, plus add in the fact that Paladins have awesome saves with a good cha score, and you're staring down the barrel of a very loaded PC.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, you're not tossing Fast Healing 10 on top of that. You can only have one at a time. Both very useful, mind, but they cannot be used together.

And Spirit of the Fallen isn't really a raise effect. It's basically Delay Death on one ally per round, plus (at maximum) 40 points of healing. It can keep you and your friends going longer than you normally would, but it's not like you get 20 rounds of unlimited True Res per day. Clerics are still better healers. Spirit of Healing makes Paladins better secondary healers, and Spirit of the Fallen increases party endurance. It doesn't outmode Clerical Resurrections and the like.

And besides, Spirit of the Fallen isn't gotten until 20th level, at which point, 10 damage/round is nothing, as is 40 points of healing if you're already in the negatives to start. It's a decent capstone ability, but not overpowering by any means.

As for their general effectiveness, Smite Evil makes Paladins decent "boss" killers - doing a lot of damage all at once to one enemy. "Burst Damage per Second" as the WoW junkies call it. This is especially true when combined with charging (either through Charging Smite or Spirited Charge/the Cavalier PrC). However, Fighters and Barbarians are still better general melee combatants, fighters through tactical ability and Barbarians through sheer brawn. And I won't even mention CoDzilla or casters.

[Ramza00]

And as for keeping only one spirit going at a time... so? Even at only once per day, and one at a time, you're still going to have some serious balance issues when you can drop a spirit and instantly raise one ally per turn. Not even Clerics, the designated healers, can do that. And THEY have to pay to do it!

Note you don't get the spirit of the fallen till lvl 20, by then a cleric is casting miracle and thus "Swinging the tide of a battle in your favor by raising fallen allies to continue fighting." 1 more lvl and a cleric is doing epic spellcasting.

Note though he can only revives people who are -10 or greater hps (thus they aren't really dead but almost there) additionally the spirit can only do this 1 per round.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
First time I read the abilities I thought Hot Damn. Then I realize all the constraints on it, and the fact you have to remain a pure paladin coupled with the restraints and I realized while still very good it is still not as strong as a pure crusader, a Paladin 2/Crusader 18 or a cleric 1/Crusader 9/RKV 10.

It will do well in a gestalt game though, and I do like the fact that the new subsitution option gives you a viable alternative to multiclassing out. Paladin is no longer a dip class. Yes it significantly boosts the paladin's power but I argue that the paladin needs that boost.

[its_all_ogre]

that is so awesome!
now to make an evil variant to throw at my players....!

actually i have to agree with most of those above, while it is a lot stronger than the RAW paladin, i do not think it makes him overly so.
and yes a fighter or barbarian would still whoop the paladins ass, even with the DR10/-.

[YPU]

I actually did something like the spirit thing before, when the paladin would drop below a specific number of hp his guardian angel would appear and stay in front of him, always between him and the nearest enemy. Or if there is an extreme danger near between the paladin and that. It would move with the paladin but not on its own. The static’s were the same as a warhorse the paladin would have. The spirit would disappear after losing al hp or the paladin getting away from harm. This was a short lived modern/dnd crossover, the classes often being tweaked with the players discovering the nice newbie’s only once they kicked in. the shear awesomeness of a guardian angel appearing cant be underestimated.

[knightsaline]

how about the thing from Dragon 349 that allows you to get a celestial weapon instead of a mount. it gives you some nifty things. if it is ever destroyed, you have to wait a year and a day for a new one.

gods, i love dragon.

[Aximili]

Note though he can only revives people who are -10 or greater hps (thus they aren't really dead but almost there) additionally the spirit can only do this 1 per round.

Unless I really read it wrong (all the 5 times I read it), it's actually quite the instead. He heals back those who fall below -10 HP.

As for the paladin. He certainly won't be overpowered with this variant. I'm just saying it's waay better than the special mount.

And If the OP is making a cleric/prestige paladin who doesn't fall much into combat, than I presume the group depends on him for healing, and so I recomend this variant even more.
Firstly because the very first spirit greatly increases his lay on hands ability, secondly because the very first spirit allows him to heal without spending an action to do so. which can be vary useful when the group is reaching critical condition and you can't take care of all at once.

[Ditto]

Indeed, I think the healing spirit might be the way to go. I won't stick with the PP long enough to upgrade to the next category, which is fine by me. Maybe 3 levels. I'll be moving on to Shadowbane Something-Gray Guard eventually, so I'll need whatever casting/healing perks I can get early. Also, it's fun cuz I don't particularly like being a healbot IC, because my party is stupid. They're well aware of this. ("I'm a monk with 18 Wis and I think it's a good idea to charge around the corner following a squad of kobold rangers - owowow, flaming arrows to the face!") I really shouldn't encourage him and the drunken dwarf barbarian to continue.

[Ditto]

New question! So if I choose the healing spirit replacement for a mount, the requirements for Prestige Paladin don't make a terrific amount of sense. Instead of Mounted Combat and 4 ranks in Ride, I figured 4 ranks in Heal would be the obvious replacement. I'm not sure what would be a good substitute for a healing-oriented feat. Any ideas?

[The_Snark]

Augment Healing, from Complete Divine, is a feat requiring 4 ranks in Heal that improves your healing spells a small amount. Alternatively, there's Skill Focus (heal)...

[Tobrian]

I'm looking for Paladin variants that substitute something for the Summon Mount ability. I've seen them before, but I can't for the life of me remember where. Does anyone know of such a thing?

Complete Warrior has a paladin variant without spellcasting.
DRAGON magazine 324 has flaws for paladins.

Paladin without mount... hm. Must be some substitution level. I've thought about that, too, recently ,but couldnt find it either.

Edit:

Also, the PHB2 has the opportunity to trade your mount for a charging smite ability.

Thanks!

[Fawsto]

I think the name of the book is Reings of Iron, dunno... There the dwarven Paladins don't have a mount, instead they get extra feats... I prefer the extra feats... o.O