Best Kind of Psion?

[StickMan]

I was hoping to find out what people think is the best kind of Psion and why? I've always though Telepath and Shaper were the best. Telepath because unlike a spellcaster they have to make no sound or handmovements when casting. Shapers because they are better a making monsters than members of other class do to versityily and the Constructor class on the wizards sites.

Any help would be good. I'm helping LadyOfTheStick make her first PC and she is looking at psions. Even though I have played them I normaly only play Telepaths and Shapers and would like to give her a better over all discription.

Note: I was going to do a poll but the site will only let me do a max of six options, when did that happen?

[Draz74]

I don't have much experience with Psionic characters, but from what I've heard ...

Shapers don't seem to be too popular. Astral Construct is great (especially without the CPs nerf), but any other psion can take it as a worthwhile feat, and then they (reportedly) have all the best of the Shaper even if they choose a different discipline.

Kineticists are like Shapers -- the few worthwhile things you get are obtainable by feats.

Telepaths are supposed to be very powerful, until you start running into mindless or Mind Blanked opponents, and then they become useless.

Seers are supposed to be good. Nomads are unexceptional in combat but extremely useful for utility (I like them because I love mobility). I don't know how Egoists are supposed to compare.

[Dhavaer]

Kineticist or Egoist. Because I wuv Autohypnosis so.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Hmm... it's all really up to personal preference. Personally, I enjoy shapers and nomads, but I've always wanted to play a seer. I suppose in the end telepaths have the best powers though.

An erudite from CP might be interesting, though I wouldn't recommend it for someone just starting out. Some people hate the erudite for flavor reasons, but I picture a psionic-item factory type erudite as potentially very useful.

The WotC site is going to be releasing a few new Mind's Eye articles with alternative class features for the different types of psions. That might be worth checking out too.

[Phoenix Talion]

The only good psion is a dead psion.

Kidding!

Personally, I favor Seers and Telepaths, though I prefer Wilders over Psions in general. Those are really just flavor preferences though. Truth be told, I think it depends on what you want your psion to do.

[Gralamin]

I like Shapers, Though Everything else is good, I think Egotist, and Telepath are the best.

[The_Snark]

I've never liked shapers much; it has only a few powers that are really useful. Astral Construct is easily obtainable through the Expanded Knowledge feat; for really good astral constructs I like using a wilder and taking the feat. Wild surge plus Astral Construct is cool.

The other disciplines have their ups and downs

-Telepath. One of the awesome ones, especially since their mind-bending powers often have no sign they're being manifested, and they get a better array than most arcane casters. Shatter Mind Blank eliminates one of your weaknesses, too; now it's just mindless creatures that thwart you. But unlike the beguiler, telepaths can pick other powers too, like damaging ones.

-Egoist. Nice for a psionic gish build, but psychic warriors are usually better for that anyway. I've never used it much, except in a gestalt game...

-Seer. Fun to be had here- it's like spontaneously casting divination spells that never have material components. I'm particularly fond of Object Reading, Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions, and (on the more useful side) Psionic Divination and Hypercognition. It might not be the greatest, but it's one of my favorites.

-Shaper. They're all right, but I usually prefer Expanded Knowledge (astral construct), like I said earlier.

-Nomad. Never really tried one of these, but mobility is indeed nice; more than once with a psion I've wished for Teleport, or even to be able to levitate other people and objects. Not a whole lot of combat utility out of this one, though.

-Kineticist. These are decent, but if I'm going to play a blaster I like to go for a wilder.

So in short, there aren't really any disciplines that stand out as better than the rest, except maybe the telepath. My preference is for seers and telepaths, but it's really a matter of preference; if you really, really need that one power from another list, you do get bonus psionic feats.

[squishycube]

The displays are hardly a reason to favour one discipline over the other because of this:

Dispense with Displays

Despite the fact that almost every power has a display, a psionic character can always choose to manifest the power without the flashy accompaniment. To manifest a power without any display (no matter how many displays it might have), a manifester must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the power). This check is part of the action of manifesting the power. If the check is unsuccessful, the power manifests normally with its display.

[Dhavaer]

I've decided on Kineticist. Autohypnosis and Fiery Discorporation make me happy.

[martyboy74]

Just wondering, but what happens if you concentrate the display away from an Astral Construct? Does it become invisible?

Also, I'm in favor of shapers.

[Thomas]

Just wondering, but what happens if you concentrate the display away from an Astral Construct? Does it become invisible?

No. There's no display for the power (so no one can tell you used it, I guess), but the construct isn't a display - it's a creature created by the power.

[Variable Arcana]

That's cool. I'm playing my first psion to try out the psionics rules, and chose to play a seer, because I liked the RP and flavor potential. Who knew I was picking one of the best?

Any advice? Aside from Energy Ray, what combat-useful abilities should I be looking to acquire? (Level 4 now...)

[StickMan]

Energy Push is good nothing like sending the other guy flying backward.

[selfcritical]

Most important rule of playing a psionic character- If you're playing a psion, complete psionic doesn't exist, if you're playing a psywar, you make sure he approves your new and awesome powers from complete psionic.

[Shatenjager]

is a dead Psion! Down with the Psi-Core! *gerk*

[Sam K]

Personally, Im a big fan of kineticists. At lower levels, they can make combat MUCH easier (energy missiles is one of the best 'room clearing' powers ever), and at higher levels, they get some truly awsome powers: dispeling buffer is almost required in a high psionics campaign, and fiery discorporation is a life saver. It's true you can get better 'blaster' builds by going wilder, but kineticist gives you enough variety in powers to be a good damage dealer and still have some utility (or if you're a selfish bastage like me, you get all the self buffs- AC28 at lvl 3 is nice).

It really depends on your campaign though. In my game, the PCs are a drow special operations force, and thus see a great deal of combat. In a less combat intensive game, my kineticist would be far less useful. In a planar campaign, a nomad is awsome, but a campaign set in a small area denies them much of their usefulness. And so on. All in all, telepaths are probably the most powerful, but their power can end abruptly when facing mindless oponents.

[JackMage666]

I favor kinetisict, mainly because of the utility of their powers. Wilders may be better, but also have the drawback. Personally, I favor Kinetisicts because they can change their energy type at will, so resistance and immunity isn't a problem.

Telepaths are potent too, so long as you like the whole illusion/enchantment thing.

Shapers can do some cool things, but it's token ability can be gained at 3rd level with a feat by any other Psion.

Egoists are interesting, but I think a Psychic Warrior is better. A good choice if you lack a cleric, as it'll increase your personal survivability (but not everyone elses).

Seers are pretty much diviners, I think.. Never even thought about playing one.

Nomads are movement good, so if you pack alot of ranged weapons and spells, you'd probably hold your own in combat.


While the discipline is important, the best part of any psion is the ability to take powers from the general list. Yes, you can have a Telepath with damage-dealing powers, or a Nomad with mind-effecting. The best powers come from Disciple lists, but you shouldn't be too crippled if you pick the general powers correctly.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Vow of Poverty Psion(Telepath) / Slayer FTW!

[Nerd-o-rama]

The best psion is one played by Morena Baccarin:



Okay, so she's actually a pretty crappy (if high-level) psion, but damn is she hot.

[Macrovore]

where's she a psion in? i don't think it's firefly.

but whatever. Telepaths with death urge and psionic dominate FTW, though. whoever we can't enslave, we'll make kill itself.

[Dhavaer]

where's she a psion in? i don't think it's firefly.

I'm guessing Stargate.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Stargate SG-1. I'd call it psionics, anyway. She's killed people with her brain.

Speaking of which, I would have included psions played by Summer Glau, but she was more of a Psychic Warrior with a lot of telepathy-discipline Expanded Knowledge feats. In my estimate, anyway.

[Macrovore]

huh. i didn't know she was in SG-1.

[Greenfaun]

huh. i didn't know she was in SG-1.

Yeah, briefly, as a fairly cliched villain of the "We can't possibly beat her directly, so we have to make her see things our way, mainly by shouting at her, because for all her galaxy-spanning power she's just a stupid gullible girl after all" variety. Grrr.

Ironically enough, she's the daughter of Claudia Black's character on that show, another cool actor from a much better (and prematurely cancelled) show forced to take a silly role on stargate.

But I'm participating in thread derailment, and that is naughty, so let me just say this:

In my experience, egotists and nomads are really fun, but if you want to be useful to a small or standard-sized party, go with kineticist or telepath.

As for powers to choose, I don't have anything that hasn't already been said. One other thing though, psionics get some often-overlooked love in "Magic of Eberron" that you might want to check out. Nothing really major, but a few interesting items and a feat or three. That depends on your DM though.

[lumberofdabeast]

I'm fond of the Kineticist, myself. From a flavor standpoint, they seem to me to represent that merging of intellect and emotion that I love so very much.

<3 Izzet.

[Arbitrarity]

Evil tactical power of seer...

*Seer manifests clarivoyant sense all throughout the dungeon*
*Seer makes a map*
*Seer uses clairitingent hand to slowly slide all treadure out of dungeon*
*Seer may or may not bother to use remote viewing to nuke all monsters in dungeon*

*Seer remembers to rest in wizards rope trick throughout this*

[Dark_Wind]

I'm playing a Nomad right now. He's the only psion I've ever played, and I haven't taken a close look at the other disciplines, so I can't say much about them. What I can say is that Nomads are really fun and have some nifty utility stuff, but don't expect them to be combat masters. I love them with great force because I'm a nut when it comes to speed and mobility, but not everyone is.

[The Valiant Turtle]

It depends somewhat on the game setting and how well optimized characters are expected to be. In many cases, the best powers of a discipline can be picked up via expanded knowledge (with Astral Construct being the most common). Don't forget to check out the class skill changes for each discipline though. There are some unusual skills available for some disciplines.

In a dungeon focused campaign the Kineticist and Seer are probably best. This is probably the worst setting for a Telepath.

A Wilderness campaign might favor the Nomad or Seer. Everyone can do pretty decent here.

A city oriented adventure probably makes the Telepath even better, the Kineticist might be a bad pick here, it just depends how much of the city you can afford to detroy. The Seer obviously shines in a mystery oriented game, and the Nomad in a stealth oriented game.

If you happen to be doing the inter-planar thing, Nomad all the way.

If you expect everything and the kitchen sink, I'd personally go with diviner.

Now then, if you need full combat optimization for facing templated, prestige classed bad guys, the Kineticist might be best, or possibly the Telepath. If things are a little more low-key, then play whatever you think is the most fun for you. I love the Nomad/Elocator, but it's not all that optimal.

[Vaynor]

Kineticists and Telepaths are the best, IMHO.

[Bagera]

I personally like the flavor of the shaper. The out of all of the psions they focus most on creation rather than destruction.