Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Rockphed]

So, I'm feeling like trying out CK II again. I stopped playing shortly before Horse Lords dropped- Are there any new mechanics I need to be aware of? Also, is seduction still a problem to the point I might want to download a mod to curtail the AI, or did Paradox tone it down enough times?

Well, reportedly you can turn off AI seduction focus from the main menu. I still don't have the game, so I cannot say for certain.

[IthilanorStPete]

Well, reportedly you can turn off AI seduction focus from the main menu. I still don't have the game, so I cannot say for certain.

Yep, you can turn it off. The new options menu gives you a lot of choices for customization, I really like it.

[Corvus]

So, I'm feeling like trying out CK II again. I stopped playing shortly before Horse Lords dropped- Are there any new mechanics I need to be aware of? Also, is seduction still a problem to the point I might want to download a mod to curtail the AI, or did Paradox tone it down enough times?

Yeah you can turn AI seduction off now along with a lot of other options.

As to mechanic changes, Conclave had some big ones with the way vassals works (and education as well) and the most recent DLC introduces much more interesting disease mecahnics, as well as hopsitals and prosperity for counties.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

More specifically:

Conclave improves internal politics. Powerful vassals get unhappy if they're not on your council, and your councilmembers get to vote on various items you do (war, revocation, etc), depending on how powerful the council is in your kingdom. They vote based on several 'personalities': Malcontent (will oppose the liege), Pragmatic (path of least resistance to strengthen realm and self), Zealot (religion at the forefront, holy wars and banish infidels), Loyalist (will support the liege), and Glory Hound (Go on! Take on the Karling blob! It'll be glorious!). It'll definitely change how you play. Used to be the only reasons to keep vassals happy was a) higher taxes, b) higher levies, and c), avoid rebellion. Now you need to keep certain interests aligned with yours as well, adding a whole new exciting level to the politics!

[Aotrs Commander]

Conclave is very devisive, note. (It also changed the education system.)

A fair number of people consider it a difficulty spike, especially for larger empires.

If you're an inveterate map-painted (like me!) it might not be to your tastes. (It's the only expansion I haven't bought.) Definitely read-up on the wiki on it before you consider it.



Reaper's Due, though, the latest DLC with all the diseases, has been very well recieved and they have now fixed most of the bugs that arose.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

It is definitely a difficulty spike. Map-painters don't like that, as it makes it that much harder to paint map. RPers like me love it, and I can't imagine playing without it now. YMMV.

[Eldan]

Sometimes I love the weird **** this game is throwing at you. I'm a hundred years into a viking game (Charlemagne start, count of Aland, now King of Finland), and Eastern Europe is being steamrolled by the Muslim Hungarian Kingdom of Prussia.

[IthilanorStPete]

Finally got a new computer, which allows me to contemplate doing an AAR. After outlining the prologue and first chapter, I'm not sure it'll be as fun as I thought it would; it seems like I'll spend a lot more time editing screenshots and writing than actually playing. Those of you who have done AARs, is there anything I can do to speed up my workflow? Should I keep working on this, or is writing AARs just not for me?

[Artanis]

Disclaimer: I haven't done any Paradox AARs, only a couple LPs in RTS games.


Now, with the disclaimer out of the way...


When I did my LPs, I found that I got faster with practice. As I got in a groove of how to talk about what the screenshots were showing and how to show what the text was talking about, it started to flow together more naturally. It still took a good bit of time and patience, mind you, but repeating the process over and over as the LPs went on led me to a sort of "flow" that made things easier.

As for editing the screenshots, how much editing are you doing? Screenshots don't have to be perfect or anything, and there's something to be said for the consistency that the images get when they aren't edited quite so thoroughly. On a related note, one thing I did was take a TON of screenshots - in my SC2 LP, for every screenshot I posted, there's probably 5-10 that went into the recycle bin. I found it easier to have several starting points to choose from before editing a picture, rather than only taking one picture and trying to force that to work, but YMMV.

In the end though, if you don't enjoy doing an AAR, then you don't have to do an AAR. That sort of thing isn't for everybody, and there's no shame in wanting just to pick up and play. You do an AAR because you enjoy doing an AAR

[Flickerdart]

Finally got a new computer, which allows me to contemplate doing an AAR. After outlining the prologue and first chapter, I'm not sure it'll be as fun as I thought it would; it seems like I'll spend a lot more time editing screenshots and writing than actually playing. Those of you who have done AARs, is there anything I can do to speed up my workflow? Should I keep working on this, or is writing AARs just not for me?

The fastest way to crop screenshots is not any editor. Just use the snip tool on Windows or Ctrl+Shift+whatever ridiculous 3-key combo it is on OSX when you have the screenshot open. And voila!

[Corvus]

People don't like Conclave?

It does kind of fit the time period. They weren't so much noted for meritocracy back then - appointing a lowborn peasant over the most powerful vassal in the realm? Yeah, not likely to happen, but the players were doing it all the time.

It isn't that hard to manage vassals though. If a few years on the council saves you a civil war, even if they only have half the value on another man, then it is worth it. After all, given the state of the game, they are liable to die before long from one of the many diseases going around. And they can't cause trouble if they are married to your family - its what spare daughters and sisters are for. Failing that, there is bribery, assassination or just send them off to Constantinople to spy. If they are bad enough they'll be back before long missing body parts, if not dead. Its like assassination by proxy and you can't get blamed :)

AARs can be hard. It is why you see a lot of them get abandoned before long. I learned the hard way you don't have to document everything - not every birth, death and marriage needs recording. Not every war either. Just go with the ones that fit the narrative best.

I hadn't noticed it in my Makuria campaign (but I should have), but Sanaa has to be one of the best duchies in game. Six counties, all of them coastal, and three of them with Silk Road links. 27 holdings at start. Aden is the pick of it all - six holdings and on the silk road. In my current Jewish campaign, its only 923 and I'm still fairly low tech level (2 in most things but for military organisation, construction and legal), but I'm rolling it cash thanks mainly to Sanaa. I own Nubia, Abyssinia, Aswan, Sanaa and Oman and my monthly income is around 65 gold already. Aden just triggered the event that give it its seventh holding. Oman is in the hands of a vassal merchant republic, which throws money my way. The Abbassids recently disappeared, one half going Shia and the other in a decandance revolt. Even though both are stronger than me, if they look at me, I can throw mercenaries plus my own not insubstantial forces at them for a long time thanks to cash reserves - the two east African companies plus the Adenian one I founded which is much stronger. Of course they'd rather fight each other and the ERE. I could possibly have pushed to Jerusalem by now but the past two rulers have been focused on internal building and not external aggression.

[GloatingSwine]

People don't like Conclave?

It does kind of fit the time period. They weren't so much noted for meritocracy back then - appointing a lowborn peasant over the most powerful vassal in the realm? Yeah, not likely to happen, but the players were doing it all the time.

Conclave does make the council pretty stroppy and obstructive, so I can see why people don't like it (also some don't like the education changes)

[TheTeaMustFlow]

My main problem with Conclave is the change to the education system. It's seriously unbalanced, opaque and unsatisfyingly difficult to control. Herr Spellcheck seems to thing unsatisfyingly is not a word. How odd.

Conclave does make the council pretty stroppy and obstructive, so I can see why people don't like it (also some don't like the education changes)

Let's not forget those fun moments where you need to give away excess titles to stop your vassals from getting upset because you have too much territory, but the council will not let you give territory to any vassal (and if you give it away anyway, your vassals get upset because you defied the council). Those are the best.

[Eldan]

Oh yeah.

Chancellor Count Vassalian: "King Playerman! You are unlawfully holding too much territory and depriving your vassals! Give some out now!"
King Playerman: "Very well. Count Vassalian, I am making you Duke of Vassalia."
Chancellor Vassalian: "How dare you! The council does not approve of this! You can't just make anyone a duke!"

[Squark]

Yep, you can turn it off. The new options menu gives you a lot of choices for customization, I really like it.

How do you access this new options menu? Or do I need one of the new DLCs to access it?


EDIT: Oh, you can scroll down on the menu that pops up when you start a new game. Didn't notice that when I tried until I googled and saw a screenshot.

[Corvus]

Ah, I've never had that problem with my councils but I can see that could be a problem. That is what calling in favours are for I guess :) (Or murder and tyranny).

The Jewish Semien game is going well - just had a Emperor who ruled for 65 years, dying in his 80s. Thought he was never going die given he was 1-handed, 1-legged, a drunkard and stressed. And had a pet cat. Elsewhere the Ummayads are going ridiculously strong. Still 0% decadance and rampaging through France, which has been badly fragmented since Francia fell. The most unusual thing is going on over in India, which I've never seen before. Hinduism has taken over it entirely, except for a small pocket on Lanka. Not only that, they've have been pushing back against the Muslims, taking over Afghanistan, Baluchistan and Khiva.

[IthilanorStPete]

Disclaimer: I haven't done any Paradox AARs, only a couple LPs in RTS games.


Now, with the disclaimer out of the way...


When I did my LPs, I found that I got faster with practice. As I got in a groove of how to talk about what the screenshots were showing and how to show what the text was talking about, it started to flow together more naturally. It still took a good bit of time and patience, mind you, but repeating the process over and over as the LPs went on led me to a sort of "flow" that made things easier.

As for editing the screenshots, how much editing are you doing? Screenshots don't have to be perfect or anything, and there's something to be said for the consistency that the images get when they aren't edited quite so thoroughly. On a related note, one thing I did was take a TON of screenshots - in my SC2 LP, for every screenshot I posted, there's probably 5-10 that went into the recycle bin. I found it easier to have several starting points to choose from before editing a picture, rather than only taking one picture and trying to force that to work, but YMMV.

In the end though, if you don't enjoy doing an AAR, then you don't have to do an AAR. That sort of thing isn't for everybody, and there's no shame in wanting just to pick up and play. You do an AAR because you enjoy doing an AAR

The fastest way to crop screenshots is not any editor. Just use the snip tool on Windows or Ctrl+Shift+whatever ridiculous 3-key combo it is on OSX when you have the screenshot open. And voila!

Thanks for the advice. I'm not doing much editing, just cropping; using the snip tool would probably save some time. Not using every screenshot is probably the big timesaver, though; I took 30-odd screenshots in a year and a half game time, and was planning on using most of them. I think I'll work on it some more and try to get 4-5 posts written; then I'll evaluate if I'm enjoying myself enough to continue.

[Eldan]

Ah, I've never had that problem with my councils but I can see that could be a problem. That is what calling in favours are for I guess :) (Or murder and tyranny).

The Jewish Semien game is going well - just had a Emperor who ruled for 65 years, dying in his 80s. Thought he was never going die given he was 1-handed, 1-legged, a drunkard and stressed. And had a pet cat. Elsewhere the Ummayads are going ridiculously strong. Still 0% decadance and rampaging through France, which has been badly fragmented since Francia fell. The most unusual thing is going on over in India, which I've never seen before. Hinduism has taken over it entirely, except for a small pocket on Lanka. Not only that, they've have been pushing back against the Muslims, taking over Afghanistan, Baluchistan and Khiva.

That's nothing. I have a Zunist Afghan Empire covering Khiva and Baluchistan. They are now allied to the Zoroastrians and seem to be pushing Islam out of Persia.

I didn't even see it happening at first, playing at the other end of the map. It's weird. Anyone ever played Zunists? What are they like?

[Flickerdart]

Anyone ever played Zunists? What are they like?

It's basically the same as any pagans, except you have the weird "judged by the sun" ritual you can use on prisoners. Oh, and you can't reform. It's a tricky start because you are weak, and are threatened by Muslim and Indian blobs, plus all the hordes that appear in the area.

[Malimar]

It's basically the same as any pagans, except you have the weird "judged by the sun" ritual you can use on prisoners. Oh, and you can't reform. It's a tricky start because you are weak, and are threatened by Muslim and Indian blobs, plus all the hordes that appear in the area.

I reformed the Church of Zun once though?

[Flickerdart]

I reformed the Church of Zun once though?

It was more of a hyperbole - the holy sites are scattered, and held by enemy blobs.

[Malimar]

It was more of a hyperbole - the holy sites are scattered, and held by enemy blobs.

Oh, I see now.

[Grim Portent]

Zunists are just another generic pagan group surrounded by enemies and with no control over their holy sites, which are all held by organized nations several times bigger than them. I'd argue they're in the worst position of all pagans, slightly edging out the West Africans because at least the WAs only have to expand north to reach holy sites.

It's a shame the non-Norse pagans have gotten so little attention really, but then it's the same with the non-Byzantine empires.

As is the two best pagans to play are the Norse, because they have the most flavor events are a really good starting position for early reformation and consolidation, and the Tengri because they're all normally Nomads, which is still really strong compared to the other government types.

[Flickerdart]

I'd argue they're in the worst position of all pagans

Hey, at least they're not Hellenics.

[Grim Portent]

Hey, at least they're not Hellenics.

It says a lot about Hellenics that I forgot they were a thing.

[Eldan]

Speaking of Norse, I just got my first immortal ruler. The son of Rurik, now king of Rus/Novgorod/Holmgardr, and pretty close to declaring the Empire of Holmgardr, after absorbing a second, neighboring Norse Kingdom that came up thanks to a prepared invasion and conquering Ruthenia. Got the Immortal event chain, he's now over 60, still looks twenty and has about 35 Martial. Sounds like a world conquest in the making, really. Though Norway did just become Christian, so that's interesting too.

[Squark]

Aside from fabricating claims, is there any way for a Feudal Christian to gain CBs to declare war? I'd been playing as a Minor Irish noble to get a feel for the game again, but nothing was happening since the RNG wasn't feeling friendly, and then my only decent chancellor died. Failing that, what would you reccomend I try that would be a bit more expansion oriented?

[Malimar]

Aside from fabricating claims, is there any way for a Feudal Christian to gain CBs to declare war? I'd been playing as a Minor Irish noble to get a feel for the game again, but nothing was happening since the RNG wasn't feeling friendly, and then my only decent chancellor died.

If you're super-friendly with the Pope -- or if he is your vassal -- you can ask him to grant you a claim.

Also, you can try inviting to your court people with claims to the lands you want, landing them with a barony or somesuch, and pressing their claims.

[Corvus]

I've never seen the Zunists do well. In all my games they actually start to make a little progress only to get caught between the Islam-India divide and be over run by one side or the other. I do mean to play them at one point (along with many other starts).

[Corvus]

Had a bit of an odd event in my Semien campaign.

After a civil war for increased council power failed, I stripped the vassal king who had led it of his title. Problem is that most of his ducal vassals went independent in the process, not just from him but from the Empire. It was easy to re-vassalise them but doing so generated 25 threat, resulting in all of my neighbours joining a defensive pact against me despite this being an entirely internal matter that didn't threaten them at all.

Not sure threat should really work that way.