Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

[LaZodiac]

I don't care what other people say.

I like Kaguya. "Almost all of the suffering for the past several generations was caused by a woman's greed and unwillingness to let her sons be independent."

The whole thing is building up to the ultimate big bad being some kind of cosmic horror and now, ignoring that she's an alien with Godlike Power Kaguya's basically just a normal human with human motivations. She's kind of a flat character, but her being two-dimensional I think is the point.

It would be good in any other series. As is she's emblematic of the fact that Naruto kinda lost what it was trying to be about.

[Rater202]

It would be good in any other series. As is she's emblematic of the fact that Naruto kinda lost what it was trying to be about.

I disagree.

At the beginning, the whole conflict is that the world is brutal but Naruto rejects that brutality and vows to live his life differently--he won't kill his emotions, he won't be an unthinking tool, destiny doesn't matter becuase your life isn't predetermined at birth, and screw you if you say he's gonna fail he'll become a great ninja and b the Hokage anyway(humorously, in Boruto he flat out says that he was never actually promoted past genin and is still technically a genin as Hokage, meaning his boast to Ibiki was dead on the money)

Early antagonists are based on very human desires: Gatou is just human greed. Zabuza claims to be an emotionless killer but is ultimately revealed to have just been trying to be the kind of Ninja the Bloody Mists employed, Haku's villainy is entirely out of devotion to Zabuza, who was kind to Haku when Haku's own father tried to murder him as a child. When the Chunin exams comes around we find out that Orochimaru, who is of course set up to be the big bad even though it doesn't end up being him, is motivated by a mixture of a fear of death and a coveting of knowledge, both very human emotions. Neji and Gaara, both antagonists who later become allies have human motivations--Neji's bitterness at his father's death and his essential being a slave both to his family and to "destiny," Gaara from the rage and pain of being betrayed by the only one who ever loved him and the constant stress of Shukaku screaming in his ears.

After this, the conflict becomes about Sasuke's drive for revenge, a human motivation, and the Akatsuki, who have motivations ranging from a sense of honor, to protecting their loved ones, to creating art, to greed, with Pain's being dissatisfaction at the state of the world and going to extreme measures to try and fix it.

Obito's motivation was likewise, dissatisfaction with the world and being willing to go to any means to make it the way he thinks it should be, those his is more selfish since he ultimately just wants to live in a world where he's with Rin.

It's the hints about the Ten-Tails and so on that make it seem like it's losing focus, making it seem like the final baby and the source of all things wrong in the world is an ancient evil, a high-end demon or eldritch abomination, and...

No. IT's a human villain with human motivations.

The only differance is the scale the characters are operating on.

[Aotrs Commander]

Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto

Woo! Having done all the class for the Great Bleakbane 3.Aotrs revision, not feeling as pressured now to do tens of hours more, so taking a somewhat sedate pass through the Pathfinder feats (I'm up to "ci"...!)

And, having new She-Ra out of the way, it's time to get back to it!


She of the Beginning

Now, where were we? Oh, that's right? Completely buggered!

(Oh, hey, new intro theme, 'bout time.)

So Kagyua's like "imm'a kick your butts now," and kicks Naruto and Sasuke's butts, while Kakashi and Sakura brick themselves.

Then Kaguya activates her byankugan and sees the whole reincarnates thing thing and is like "I'm gonna bring peace now," And you can just see Naruto go, "oh, okay, maybe I can talk no ju-" TELEPORT ABOVE LAVA!

Never trust anyone who says they want "peace" without qualifiers, since that, itself means NOTHING. She wants peace. Madara wants peace. Palaptine wanted peace, hell I want peace, because peace gets associated with "everyone is happy" far more than the equally valid "there is no resistance left." Kaggy? Clearly in the latter category.

They all (including Obito, is he still not dead yet?) manage to stop falling and after a This Teh Serious moments, Naruto and Sasuke go at her. Arses are kicked, and this results in them all falling itno lava, but Naruto can just fly now, so it's fine.

I love that Kaguya kicks their arses with the byankugan. Hahahahahahaha, don't mess with the Hyuuga, everyone!

So, they do the whole "Naruto distracts while Sasuke launches a surprise attack" thing and I'm like, "dude, she literally has the byankugan, of course she sees you coming!" And she just basically eatd the susanoo like it was nothing. But Saskue can teleport now, so it's fine.

Until she just pops out and grabs them and starts draining their chakra and the worst thing imaginable happens - Black Zetsu appears to Flashback them to death!

The FIEND!


And in the final boss fight too!



Kaguya Ōtsutsuki

So, Kaguya is apparently From Space, or the magic tree is. Her crashing to earth is spotted by the primitive nations fo the time, and she's brought before the Lord of the Land of... Ancestors...

Ahahahahahahahahahaha! That's so dumb! That's like Pokémon XY "giant rock" dumb!

Okay, so anyway, she demonstrates some magic powers and the Lord of the Land of Ancestors (ahahahaha!) is like "that's hot, Imma tap that!"

Apparently she's his consort now, because that's just the way it was done back then, despite them having less chemitry in their than, like, Neji and Gaara. (Seriously, there's like one scene of the dude rather creepily gong "I'mma stand next to you every night while you look at the stars" and that's it.)

Also once again she says she wants "peace." Don't trust her...

So iin time, they recieved an envoy from the neighboring land of...

That.

...

...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh my Lichemaster, I though that (That?) was funny enough as a throw-away gag, but no, it's totally, properly canonised now and it is HILARIOUS and I brick my self laughing every time they're like "from the land of That!" (Ahahahaha!)

So anyway, the land of That (pfftahahahaha!) ois being run by two dudes who are Clearly Evil, saying that the lord of the land of Ancestors better hand over land or else, look here's this map that's been unearthed that shows this land (does This exist yet?) belongs to That land, to they want that land be given back to That land and sadly they miss the whole hilarious scene where everyone goes like "this land? no, that land, this land is that land, that's what I said, that land is That land," and gets very confused and goes cross-eyed.

The lord of the land of Ancestors goes "yeah, I know is a forgery, but they have an army three times ours, so we better play along."

OH!

OHHH!

I get it now! This is a game of Crusader Kings II and That land is the player's nation! Grossly over-powered, silly name, forging claims as a pretext for conquest! Makes perfect sense!

So the lord sends Kaguya off while saying he'll have anyone that attacks That minions (who are stirring trouble) executed, because he';s that committed to peace (what did I say about people who want peace) but one of the That guys is like "I've heard mis misses is hot so, I'mma tap that," and try to capture her.

Kaguya don't give no excements though and uses Implosion but the head due makes his Fort save or something and then he's like "yo, lord of Ancestors, you better kill Kaguya, since she liked attacked us," and lord of Anecestors is too much of a dumb-smeg to say "mate, mate, she explodinates people, dude, what makes you think I even can? Also, would you like me to sic her on you, because, y'know, the only reason she's not hip-deep in your blood right now is because I asked her real nice not to murder you all, but, dude, I can't like control her or anything, so, y'know, maybe place nice and she won't come knockin' an your door, yah?" and making his Bluff check like a half-way decent ruler would, instead totally Nat Oneing his Sense Motive check to fail to notice these guys are just comming him into sending all his troop after her so they can ravage Ancestors without oppositon.

Kaguya WAS apparently Tapped, since she's pregnant, and her little hand-maid friend dies trying to tell the moron she's pregant while theby shoot arrows at her. But Kaggy reaches the magic tree and Infinite Tsukyomi's everyone, because apparently everyone in those days was thinking with their Manly Man sense and completely ignoring that SHE'S A MAGIC SPACE LADY WHO CAN KILL YOU WITH A THOUGHT, THE FRACK MAKES YOU THINK YOU COULD EVER HAVE TAKEN HER, YOU NUMPTIES.

Lord of Ancestors is the last to get tree'd and his expression is like "but why?" Because he's flipping dip-spit.

Kaggy, duck, I mean... Even I can see you taste in blokes is poor.



Hagoromo and Hamura

So, Everything Is Fine Now, and Kaggy is apparently in charge, and Hagoromo and Hamura are adults now.

Kaggy is off doin' stuff, so the break up a fight between villagers because the stream to the rice paddies has run dry. (It's a Snorlax, isn't it?) They head off, and find it's been blocked by a cacking great boulder, but the question is who put it there? Turns it's a talking toad dude. Their first reaction is "this would deeply amuse people, I'mma capture him," but before it can kick off: a Wild Ursaring appears!

Froakie used Hydropump!

It's super-effective! (Even though it really shouldn't be! Maybe somebody hacked his Ability to be, like Pixiate, but with Fighting moves?)

Wild Ursaring fainted!

And the toad is like "you dudes never looked in the tree-crater, have you," and they're, like, "no, Mum said we wasn't allowed."

They get back to find snake-oil salesmen, since apparently in Naruto land, travelling con-men started EARLY, and anyway, Hagoromo, now he's actually thinking about it is like "why is it we're not allowed," and manages to get out of the chap that it's rumoured Kaggy's a tyrant who viciously crushes resistance. Hagoromo's like "HMMMMM."

Shortly after, the scales pass tipping point when a girl Hagoromo likes gets chosen for the Divine Tree ritual along with a load of other folk, and Kaggy's like "just drop it son, it's necessaey until The Others arrive, no, forget I just said that last part."

They don't, of course, and they go and look and in the crater is... A really big tree.

Huh. Okay, well that's a bit under-

*Hamura uses byankugan*

-oh, there we go. Yah, turns out Divine Tree Ritual Is People!!!1!1!

(Like that wasn't obvious.)

Finding his fancy dead makes Hagoromo pretty peeved, and not unreasonably so, to the point he unlocks his sharingarn.

So they goes to the toad, and he says, yeah, Kaggy and the Tree are from Actual Space and not, like a divine realm and the tree is sucking all the life out of the planet and everyone will die if it's not stopped.

...

Huh. Naruto is literally just Alien Space Invasion Goes Wrong.

Did not see that coming.

(Foreshadowing for Boruto's eventual End Boss maybe? I dunno...)

Kaggy apparently activated the tree, wiped most of the population, except for a few, which she memory wiped and then set herself up as leader. (Huh, I wondered what happened there.)



So Hagoromo trains and learns sage power and the Kaggy shows back up and Hamura's like "mi bruv, sos Muvver, dunno where 'e is" and she's like "muahahaha, you fool, my byankugan is stronger than your!" Which is still refreshing after all the sharingarn and rinnegarn hax.



So, yeah. Things are at least clipping along and this IS new flashback, so there's that.

Kaggy is a bit of a disappointment, though - unlike the opening credits, she's not smirked evilly once. Poor replacement for Madara, I'm afraid.

Still, it's all clearly got precisely diddly-squat to to with family or bonds in the end at all, she's literally just an alien space-invader sent to conquer the planet for the Evil Space Tree Empire or something and I can't decide whether that's dumb or so dumb it wraps around to brilliant.

[LaZodiac]

You are officially at the part of the series where Kishimoto decided it'd be a super cool idea to insert The Tale Of The Bamboo Princess into this child soldier war story.

The result is... as you would expect, somehow.

[Ramza00]

You are officially at the part of the series where Kishimoto decided it'd be a super cool idea to insert The Tale Of The Bamboo Princess into this child soldier war story.

The result is... as you would expect, somehow.

The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter is actually a very beautiful story, so the instinct to add it is not a wrong instinct in my mind. Especially when the original Naruto story (to echo Rater202) is to reject an imperfect world where everyone suffers, and to strive to make this temporary material world a better world, a world worth living in.

The instinct to add The Tale of Princess Kaguya is not wrong. Just the final product we got could have been so much better both on a theme and on a storytelling tension level.

Now I have the urge to both listen to Queen's "Who Wants to Live Forever" and Wicked's "For Good" [Change for the Better] ... _{loses myself into the youtubes... 💤}

[LaZodiac]

The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter is actually a very beautiful story, so the instinct to add it is not a wrong instinct in my mine. Especially when the original Naruto story (to echo Rater202) is to reject an imperfect world where everyone suffers, and to strive to make this temporary material world a better world, a world worth living in.

The instinct to add The Tale of Princess Kaguya is not wrong. Just the final product we got could have been so much better both on a theme and on a storytelling tension level.

Now I have the urge to both listen to Queen's "Who Wants to Live Forever" and Wicked's "For Good" [Change for the Better] ... _{loses myself into the youtubes... 💤}

They're very good and powerful stories that I don't think, execution wise, fit Naruto at all. And that's sad.

[Lord Raziere]

I mean if you really dig into the lore behind Naruto, Tale of the Bamboo Cutter is hardly the first thing Naruto is drawing inspiration from.

Kyuubi and Tanuki are from a folkloric rivalry between the two yokai

Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru are all from The Tale of Jiraiya The Gallant.

Amaterasu, Susanoo, Izanami, Izanagi, Tsukuyomi, and Kotoamatuskami are all names of major shinto deities. Kamui is a variation of the term Kamuy which is a term refers to the Ainu deities. yes the Uchiha are arrogant enough to name all their Mangekyo attacks after gods.

Sasuke Uchiha and Sarutobi Hiruzen are halves of the name Sarutobi Sasuke, a popular folkloric ninja from the warring states era.

Hanzo of the Land of Rain is of course, derived from Hanzo Hattori, a ninja of similar folkloric importance.

Between the Yin-Yang release, Neji's eight trigrams spin attack, the sealing jutsu put on Naruto being the Eight Trigrams seal, there is a lot of references to and uses of yin and yang.

Pain and the Sage of the Six Paths are all Hindu and Buddha derived, heck, the Rinnegan basically means "Samsara Eye" which refers to the Hindu concept of a wheel of fate causing all suffering known as Samsara and the eyes many paths refer to various levels of existence found in it. Konan herself is a variant of the name Kannon, which is the japanese name for Avalokitesvara, the bodhisattva also known as the Goddess of Mercy.

Rock Lee is a blatant reference to Bruce Lee.

Son Goku the five tailed monkey is a obvious reference to Sun Wukong and probably also Dragon Ball. Roshi his container, is a reference to the latter.

the fuinjutsu seals and summoning that ninja often do are similar to how omnyodo magic is supposed to work.

the ninja hand signs they do to cast jutsu themselves are inspired by mudra, which is a symbolic gesture in hinduism and buddhism as well, and ninja were known to do a certain method involving their fingers to help concentrate.

basically Naruto is made of nothing but eastern mythology and folklore references turned into action-packed ninja fighters. arguably the most out of place thing is Konan having angel wings rather than thousands of paper arms. really Kaguya is really just par for the course given everything else, I wouldn't be surprised if Amatsu-Mikaboshi showed up in Naruto one day.

[Ramza00]

Agrees with Lord Raziere, but adds another.

Amaterasu, Susanoo, Izanami, Izanagi, Tsukuyomi, and Kotoamatuskami are all names of major shinto deities. Kamui is a variation of the term Kamuy which is a term refers to the Ainu deities. yes the Uchiha are arrogant enough to name all their Mangekyo attacks after gods.

...

Konan herself is a variant of the name Kannon, which is the japanese name for Avalokitesvara, the bodhisattva also known as the Goddess of Mercy.

...

arguably the most out of place thing is Konan having angel wings rather than thousands of paper arms.

It is not just the Uchiha who name their attacks after Gods. Senju do the same schtick after all one of Hashirama attacks is Sage Art: Wood Style: Shinsu Senju, Veritable 1000-Armed Kan'on as its official translation. Like you mentioned earlier with Konan same figure being referenced by another character Avalokiteśvara, also known as a title of "Senju Kannon" (Literally meaning: Thousand-Armed Kannon.)

And what is this attack? It is literally the mythical Avalokitesvara given material form. The same Kannon (Guanyin and a half a different other names) who after rejected paradise was "not enough" in order to save the world for Kannon would not be satisfied by saving one person all must be saved as his / her / they's obligation. Thus Avalokiteśvara in one story is granted 1000 arms by another Buddha diety (the one representing infinite light) and 11 heads so Avalokiteśvara can have super hearing and thus hear all the people crying out for salvation and thus Avalokiteśvara can come to their aid.

Sidenote while Konan and Hashirama are the two who are specifically getting Kannon inspired attacks flat out named and referenced...

I would argue that all the various Naruto attacks are emulating this myth more strongly from a theme level. Naruto's whole motto / reason for fighting is that of Avalokitesvara plus he has his 1000 shadow clones [for 1 body is not enough], his sensing abilities [to hear the cries of the world], and so on. He has become the God / Goddess of Mercy, Compassion, and Kindness incarnated as the Hokage that always got your back and he has his heavenly smile.

[Lord Raziere]

I would argue that all the various Naruto attacks are emulating this myth more strongly from a theme level. Naruto's whole motto / reason for fighting is that of Avalokitesvara plus he has his 1000 shadow clones [for 1 body is not enough], his sensing abilities [to hear the cries of the world], and so on. He has become the God / Goddess of Mercy, Compassion, and Kindness incarnated as the Hokage that always got your back and he has his heavenly smile.

MSCJ is also a reference to a classic ninja technique where ninja all dressed the same to confuse their enemies, just taken up to eleven.

interesting thing is, paper is made of wood, and Naruto has Senju blood, so there a lot of connections.

as for Naruto's abilities all being thematically fitting....I get how Multi-Shadow, the sage mode, the summoning frogs, the sensing hatred, healing, and such all fit, but I'm interested: how does the Rasengan fit into the themes? its just an energy attack that Naruto shoves/throws at his enemies.

[Ramza00]

MSCJ is also a reference to a classic ninja technique where ninja all dressed the same to confuse their enemies, just taken up to eleven.

interesting thing is, paper is made of wood, and Naruto has Senju blood, so there a lot of connections.

as for Naruto's abilities all being thematically fitting....I get how Multi-Shadow, the sage mode, the summoning frogs, the sensing hatred, healing, and such all fit, but I'm interested: how does the Rasengan fit into the themes? its just an energy attack that Naruto shoves/throws at his enemies.

Rasengan is Dragonball's Spirit Bomb or something? Not everything is a reference to myth sometimes it is references to more contemporary culture you are inspired by.

[Lord Raziere]

Rasengan is Dragonball's Spirit Bomb or something? Not everything is a reference to myth sometimes it is references to more contemporary culture you are inspired by.

It was a joke, Ramza.

but yeah its probably a spirit bomb divorced from the charge up, the "gathering energy from all living and nature things" seems to be put into the Sage mode.

point is, Naruto is basically a hodge-podge of old myth and contemporary stuff, much like other superhero stuff. Kaguya being used in the authors own way is just whatever, its not the first time an old myth will be misinterpreted or reinterpreted and it won't be the last. now whether Bamboo Cutter fits as LaZodiac says well.....

well it seems to be "woman arrives, everyone loves her, then moon people takes her back, everyone sad." to simplify a lot. could've been used to tie into Naruto's themes with understanding other cultures that are distant from others and she could've been more sympathetic. maybe she would've been better if she wasn't apart of the arc of Shippuden but instead part of Toneri's whole deal or something, like if instead, they just defeat Madara, fought each other, then years later Naruto and Sasuke have to deal with Kaguya somehow returning and Toneri and the Moon Hyuugas seeing her as a threat to try and take over the world again but Naruto finds out that she might be evil anymore and it becomes this quest to rescue Kaguya from Toneri or something, I dunno. just space out Kaguya more, make her more her own arc than putting her at the end of the Fourth War arc would probably have been better.

[LaZodiac]

My personal suggestion would be to not include a random moon demon alien rabbit lady and be like "oh she was the origin of all the ninja magic all along" and then tie it into the Bamboo Cutter story as a way to justify it.

This is more an execution issue more than anything else, but even if it was executed well it'd probably feel a bit like a giant space flea from nowhere. If she was meant to be end game, you needed to seed this **** from the beginning. You know, like they did Madara.

[Lord Raziere]

My personal suggestion would be to not include a random moon demon alien rabbit lady and be like "oh she was the origin of all the ninja magic all along" and then tie it into the Bamboo Cutter story as a way to justify it.

This is more an execution issue more than anything else, but even if it was executed well it'd probably feel a bit like a giant space flea from nowhere. If she was meant to be end game, you needed to seed this **** from the beginning. You know, like they did Madara.

I mean.....the Kaguya clan with the white-haired guy who obeyed Madara was a thing about the same time the Madara statue showed up at the Valley of the End....

[Ramza00]

It was a joke, Ramza.

Yeah I knew it was a joke and I had more originally, then on a whim I deleted it for the more I wrote felt too corny and I probably should have gone back and made sure it flowed but instead I just hit send.

My personal suggestion would be to not include a random moon demon alien rabbit lady and be like "oh she was the origin of all the ninja magic all along" and then tie it into the Bamboo Cutter story as a way to justify it.

This is more an execution issue more than anything else, but even if it was executed well it'd probably feel a bit like a giant space flea from nowhere. If she was meant to be end game, you needed to seed this **** from the beginning. You know, like they did Madara.

Kaguya exist because Black Zetsu as the master schemer exist.

Black Zetsu exists as the master schemer for The Problem of Evil and style choices of the story. If you make a human who you want the ast to empathize with, also be a multi generational super gambit planner it is hard to empathize with them if they cause a world war but also is the cause of all chaos, strife, and suffering of all the various protagonists for these several decades. You just can not empathize with that, in the end you no longer want to see this other humans point of view for even if his viewpoint is valid his actions are unforgivable. Vader may be personally saved but you can not undo the vast war Lord Vader / Anakin Skywalker waged. You can not undo the horrors man is capable of.

Thus you create a demon / serpent / monster figure such as Black Zetsu.

Now I do not think Black Zetsu and Kaguya was the original final big bad. But after 6 years and 300 plus comics since Tobi's declaration of War, and 4 years and 200 plus comics of Edo Madara's introduction the urge to displace culpability not just on a single character you built up for so long is a choice the author has to make to displace or not to displace.

I understand why Kishimoto made the choices he did I just wished the final product was better for it could have been with some massaging. I personally would have made different choices but I am not complaining for Naruto was amazing.

[LaZodiac]

I mean.....the Kaguya clan with the white-haired guy who obeyed Madara was a thing about the same time the Madara statue showed up at the Valley of the End....

Um... no? I don't recall that ever being the case.

Yeah I knew it was a joke and I had more originally, then on a whim I deleted it for the more I wrote felt too corny and I probably should have gone back and made sure it flowed but instead I just hit send.



Kaguya exist because Black Zetsu as the master schemer exist.

Black Zetsu exists as the master schemer for The Problem of Evil and style choices of the story. If you make a human who you want the ast to empathize with, also be a multi generational super gambit planner it is hard to empathize with them if they cause a world war but also is the cause of all chaos, strife, and suffering of all the various protagonists for these several decades. You just can not empathize with that, in the end you no longer want to see this other humans point of view for even if his viewpoint is valid his actions are unforgivable. Vader may be personally saved but you can not undo the vast war Lord Vader / Anakin Skywalker waged. You can not undo the horrors man is capable of.

Thus you create a demon / serpent / monster figure such as Black Zetsu.

Now I do not think Black Zetsu and Kaguya was the original final big bad. But after 6 years and 300 plus comics since Tobi's declaration of War, and 4 years and 200 plus comics of Edo Madara's introduction the urge to displace culpability not just on a single character you built up for so long is a choice the author has to make to displace or not to displace.

I understand why Kishimoto made the choices he did I just wished the final product was better for it could have been with some massaging. I personally would have made different choices but I am not complaining for Naruto was amazing.

Zetsu was never really presented as being more than just a weird plant guy in Akatsuki. All this stuff is backtracked into it when they reveal the Kaguya stuff.

I agree that he should have done it better if he wanted to do this, it just feels completely out of nowhere.

[Lord Raziere]

Um... no? I don't recall that ever being the case.

......

uh.....

Spoiler: Kimimaro Kaguya

Show

he fought Gaara and Rock Lee and only lost because he had a disease, not exactly someone forgettable.

[Claudius Maximus]

as for Naruto's abilities all being thematically fitting....I get how Multi-Shadow, the sage mode, the summoning frogs, the sensing hatred, healing, and such all fit, but I'm interested: how does the Rasengan fit into the themes? its just an energy attack that Naruto shoves/throws at his enemies.

Honestly I've always seen it as just a twisty attack to keep with his spiral theme. Naruto-shi is a city famous for its whirlpools, and there's a type of ramen kamaboko called narutomaki with a spiral shape. So naturally he needs a thematic attack. But I suppose Kishimoto didn't want him to have a drill, and thus made the slightly more creative Rasengan.

[LaZodiac]

......

uh.....

Spoiler: Kimimaro Kaguya

Show

he fought Gaara and Rock Lee and only lost because he had a disease, not exactly someone forgettable.

Oh right my favorite character.

Not one thing about Kimimaro hints at alien rabbit mom. They are a good boy with bone disease that Orochimaru found and turned into a super minion. Madara has nothing to do with this at all.

[Rodin]

Honestly I've always seen it as just a twisty attack to keep with his spiral theme. Naruto-shi is a city famous for its whirlpools, and there's a type of ramen kamaboko called narutomaki with a spiral shape. So naturally he needs a thematic attack. But I suppose Kishimoto didn't want him to have a drill, and thus made the slightly more creative Rasengan.

Also the first arc has them assisting the building of a giant bridge which gets named after Naruto.

[Traab]

Oh right my favorite character.

Not one thing about Kimimaro hints at alien rabbit mom. They are a good boy with bone disease that Orochimaru found and turned into a super minion. Madara has nothing to do with this at all.

Iirc didnt "madera" arrange the whole bloodline massacre in water thing? Its entirely likely he setup the kaguya clan getting wiped out to trigger the war, leaving just this prodigy of the clan behind to be scooped up by orochimaru. But yeah, I think there is about as much connection to rabbit moon demon alien princess as there is from the kurama clan of konoha to the nine tailed fox.

[LaZodiac]

Iirc didnt "madera" arrange the whole bloodline massacre in water thing? Its entirely likely he setup the kaguya clan getting wiped out to trigger the war, leaving just this prodigy of the clan behind to be scooped up by orochimaru. But yeah, I think there is about as much connection to rabbit moon demon alien princess as there is from the kurama clan of konoha to the nine tailed fox.

If you're talking about how one of the previous Mizukage's was either an Akatsuki member or in their pocket, I... don't think that's actually connected to Madara either? Otherwise I genuinely don't remember what you mean, I was basically of the impression that we got no real idea on what Kimimaro's origin is.

[Gray Mage]

All of this Land of That thing, war with Land of Ancestors and Hamura backstory is filler? Because I have no memory of them from the manga.

[LaZodiac]

All of this Land of That thing, war with Land of Ancestors and Hamura backstory is filler? Because I have no memory of them from the manga.

Yeah we get some backstory on Kaguya and her descendants in the manga cause that's relevant, but basically nothing Aotrs is talking about.

[Traab]

If you're talking about how one of the previous Mizukage's was either an Akatsuki member or in their pocket, I... don't think that's actually connected to Madara either? Otherwise I genuinely don't remember what you mean, I was basically of the impression that we got no real idea on what Kimimaro's origin is.

Wasnt it cannon that tobito or madera was mind controlling the third mizukage to cause the bloodline massacres? Or is that just one of those fannon things thats so commonly done that everyone starts to believe it who reads fanfic (like me)?

[Ramza00]

Wasnt it cannon that tobito or madera was mind controlling the third mizukage to cause the bloodline massacres? Or is that just one of those fannon things thats so commonly done that everyone starts to believe it who reads fanfic (like me)?

Yes in the Magna canon, Tobi was mind controlling one of the Mizukages, if I was remembering the numbering correctly it was the 4th Mizukage. It was specifically the Mizukage who had the perfect synchronization with the 3 tails. [Something that only Killer B, the 4th Mizukage, Madara, and Hashirama ever achieved.] Except this feat is a lie, for it was not perfect synchronization or else the 3 tails would volunteer to get him out of Tobi's mind control and the 3 tails chooses not to. [Thus the relationship was one of domination like most relationships of the tailed beasts.] The 4th Mizukage was an inferior Naruto copy that Tobi could manipulate and control.

Tobi was mind controlling this Mizukage per manga canon and not just anime and fan spin offs for that is the reason why Shark Boy Kisame Hoshigaki joined Akatsuki. At the time Tobi had long hair like Madara, even though a similar time frame of the Nine Tails Attack on the Hidden Leaf Village Tobi had short hair. Tobi with long hair like Madara was thought to be Madara to Shark Boy Kisame, except Kisame really did not care for he saw all of reality like names as lies. Kisame will "know" Madara by his deeds and actions not things like a name or a false face.

This Naruto world is one built on a "web of lies" [false truths, mistruths, and misunderstandings] as Kisame would echo as his central understanding of reality.

This Naruto world is one built on a foundation of official manga canon, but everyone builds on top of it like the anime and those fanfictions.

[LaZodiac]

And all of this mind control nonsense and they never once decided to actually take his tailed beast. Except when they did and Tobi and Deidara had to fight the giant turtle grandpa.

Importantly this is where White Zetsu says "Tobi is a good boy!" which isn't actually relevant in any way it's just a funny line.

[Traab]

And all of this mind control nonsense and they never once decided to actually take his tailed beast. Except when they did and Tobi and Deidara had to fight the giant turtle grandpa.

Importantly this is where White Zetsu says "Tobi is a good boy!" which isn't actually relevant in any way it's just a funny line.

I think the idea was to use him to weaken the land of water through killing off its bloodlines, (things the sharingan cant copy) then extract the demon when they were ready for it. But then Mei showed up and squished him before they could do it. There was a lot of scheduling going on with their plan. First they needed the ten S-rank ninjas, then they needed to identify all the vessels and know where to find them. Prepare to defeat and kidnap them then extract the demon before reinforcements could arrive, etc etc etc. They didnt have the opening they needed at the time they needed, and grabbing the three tails so early, if they even could have, would have probably alerted the other villages, giving them more time to prepare.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter of Boruto by the way!

Bort and friends end up not being able to defeat the end game baddy. Who woulda guessed! Sasuke is also out cold.

also... he uses a lava move, and Sarada calls it acid for the rest of the chapter despite it being... lava. Sarada please.

[Ramza00]

New chapter of Boruto by the way!

Bort and friends end up not being able to defeat the end game baddy. Who woulda guessed! Sasuke is also out cold.

also... he uses a lava move, and Sarada calls it acid for the rest of the chapter despite it being... lava. Sarada please.

Boruto and Naruto can't figure out Boruto's rasengan is wind or lightning based (technically it was a retcon and I can't recall which of the two they swapped too for the vanishing rasengan.)

[Lord Raziere]

Boruto and Naruto can't figure out Boruto's rasengan is wind or lightning based (technically it was a retcon and I can't recall which of the two they swapped too for the vanishing rasengan.)

...It should be wind based. the rasengan can't be combined with lightning. both Minato and Kakashi failed to combine it with lightning, and Kakashi made the Chidori specifically to make a jutsu much like it that CAN be used like the Rasengan but in way so it can be used for lightning.

though I can see why Minato was so insistent on Rasengan first: given the many elemental variations that Naruto uses with the Rasengan like fire, lava, wind, I think even water at some point, its clearly the more elementally flexible of the two techniques. but the Chidori is more flexible in shape.